gdavis003 wrote:

stretch8 wrote:

B752 ILN-HGR today.

Now, that’s an interesting movement for an ex-DHL 752. Sierra Nevada related maybe?

Skyliner thinks it’s going for scrap, but skyliner always thinks everything is headed to scrap.

Spacepope wrote:

gdavis003 wrote:

stretch8 wrote:

B752 ILN-HGR today.

Now, that’s an interesting movement for an ex-DHL 752. Sierra Nevada related maybe?

Skyliner thinks it’s going for scrap, but skyliner always thinks everything is headed to scrap.

I read that CAM had sold 3 to somebody. MO11 may have told us that. The brand new registrant is using Bank of Utah as the trustee. It could be for scrap, but it seems to me that ATSG routinely scraps planes right there at ILN.

wjcandee wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

gdavis003 wrote:

Now, that’s an interesting movement for an ex-DHL 752. Sierra Nevada related maybe?

Skyliner thinks it’s going for scrap, but skyliner always thinks everything is headed to scrap.

I read that CAM had sold 3 to somebody. MO11 may have told us that. The brand new registrant is using Bank of Utah as the trustee. It could be for scrap, but it seems to me that ATSG routinely scraps planes right there at ILN.

My thoughts exactly...if it were to be parted out, it wouldn't have had to move anywhere under its own power. Figured there was a reason why the engines hadn't been pulled from 557CM like the other ex-DHL 757s.

Harvestman wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

Skyliner thinks it’s going for scrap, but skyliner always thinks everything is headed to scrap.

I read that CAM had sold 3 to somebody. MO11 may have told us that. The brand new registrant is using Bank of Utah as the trustee. It could be for scrap, but it seems to me that ATSG routinely scraps planes right there at ILN.

My thoughts exactly...if it were to be parted out, it wouldn't have had to move anywhere under its own power. Figured there was a reason why the engines hadn't been pulled from 557CM like the other ex-DHL 757s.

Decided to pull up the Live ATC archive for HGR (surprised it was on there), and it sounds like they parked at Hangar 65 (a right turn off of taxiway Hotel) at HGR. Hangar 65 appears to have been listed for leasing recently (March 2021), with the hopes of drawing in an MRO or other maintenance facility (https://www.bagroup.aero/exclusive-prop ... town-area/). Wasn’t able to find much else, not sure who is leasing this facility

wjcandee wrote:

stretch8 wrote:

N390CM CAM B763 still at ILN since her August 10, 2021 attempted departure to SNN. cheers!

Thanks for the update! We'll see if she manages to leave tonight.

Meanwhile, on the IS&S earnings conference call today, they reminded us that a "big online retailer" (which is obviously Amazon) had purchased 11 sets of their Cockpit/IP flat panel displays for use in 767s that it owned. That matches up with the known Amazon acquisitions, so it didn't suggest that there are known Amazon acquisitions on the horizon. Cockpit/IP is the flat panel system that's in use on essentially-all of the 767s and 757s operated by ABX and ATI. American had installed this system already in its 767s, so they could go straight online without a need for upgrade, but DL was on its way to using a different system to replace the CRTs in the cockpit (one that just replaced the existing CRT line-replaceable-units with units that had a couple of circuit boards and LCDs on them, and so didn't significantly-upgrade functionality or eliminate any steam gauges).

So the DL ships need to get the IS&S mod to be consistent with the rest of the ATI fleet, and Amazon seems to like the product. The LCD solution is the cheapest and easiest replacement, the IS&S is next (and can be installed in a matter of a few days or even less), and the system UPS is installing took about 2 weeks per aircraft for UPS once the contractors had the upgrade lines running smoothly. The bigger mods provide more functionality, naturally. IS&S did let go one tidbit, which is that their system, which is installed now in some 500 aircraft, has proven to be extraordinarily-reliable, with a huge mean time between failures. The CEO said 250,000-300,000 hours mean time between failures, which I did a double-take on, but that's what he said. I thought that was interesting. https://seekingalpha.com/article/444883 ... king_alpha

This system is what they could use


https://youtu.be/Uxi1KNqNN4s

DL757NYC wrote:

This system is what they could use https://youtu.be/Uxi1KNqNN4s

Yeah, that's the Collins LDS, originally called the Rockwell Collins LFDS. That's what UPS installed in all its 757s/767s. It's what is discussed above as the most-expensive but most-functional option. Takes about 2 weeks to install once the contractor is up and running with it on a big fleet like UPS's. Cascade Aviation in Abbottsford, BC did the 757s, and ATSG's AMES did the 767s at ILN. After Cascade finished the 757s (smaller fleet), UPS gave them some 767s to do as well, as apparently they were doing a good job and could help finish the project faster. 2 weeks was the allotted time on the 767s. AMES had 2 lines running (meaning they would finish one per week) and Cascade had one line.

gdavis003 wrote:

Harvestman wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

I read that CAM had sold 3 to somebody. MO11 may have told us that. The brand new registrant is using Bank of Utah as the trustee. It could be for scrap, but it seems to me that ATSG routinely scraps planes right there at ILN.

My thoughts exactly...if it were to be parted out, it wouldn't have had to move anywhere under its own power. Figured there was a reason why the engines hadn't been pulled from 557CM like the other ex-DHL 757s.

Decided to pull up the Live ATC archive for HGR (surprised it was on there), and it sounds like they parked at Hangar 65 (a right turn off of taxiway Hotel) at HGR. Hangar 65 appears to have been listed for leasing recently (March 2021), with the hopes of drawing in an MRO or other maintenance facility (https://www.bagroup.aero/exclusive-prop ... town-area/). Wasn’t able to find much else, not sure who is leasing this facility

That's good work! Could be somebody new; could be Sierra Nevada. If the latter, they're generally involved in some out-there stuff and gov't work. What 3 cargo 757s might be used for? Dunno.

Right now, N557CM and N605DL are reregistered to Bank of Utah. (ATI flew 605DL for DHL a little-longer than the other 3, until some more 737 conversions came on board.) N620DL and N531UA both still show as being registered to CAM. That group makes up the 4 now-retired-from-DHL-service ATI 757s. ATI is still flying N751CX, 752CX, 753CX and 754CX, the 757 combis that are used for military service.

If it is going to Hangar 65, that's got about 40,00 square feet of floor space, according to the listing you cited, which, for comparison, is about the size of each of 3 of the 4 Dean Baldwin paint hangars at their new facility in Macon, which 3 hangars they're using for 757s, A321s, etc. So indeed that aircraft could fit in that hangar.

N391AA B763 has left TLV-SNN sched arrival just after 1400L. cheers!

N391AA B763 BDSF SNN-CVG-ILN today. Nice gray color with red/white stripe rudder. cheers!

Did anyone ever figure out the deal with the CAM, former Asian Air 762? N712AX and it’s mystery destination out of ILN adjust came to mind. Would still love to figure out where it did go, before leaving there and heading on a very strange route to ROW, where it seems to be now. If anyone has laid eyes on it at Roswell or was able to uncover some more information, I’d love to know!

gdavis003 wrote:

Did anyone ever figure out the deal with the CAM, former Asian Air 762? N712AX and it’s mystery destination out of ILN adjust came to mind. Would still love to figure out where it did go, before leaving there and heading on a very strange route to ROW, where it seems to be now. If anyone has laid eyes on it at Roswell or was able to uncover some more information, I’d love to know!

Other than a fresh airworthiness certificate issued 6/24/21 to TVPX Aircraft Solutions Inc., Trustee it hasn't moved again. It is an odd situation that a plane that hasn't flown in years all of a sudden flies to the middle of barren south Texas just to pop up a few weeks later with a new owner.

wjcandee wrote:

Right now, N557CM and N605DL are reregistered to Bank of Utah. (ATI flew 605DL for DHL a little-longer than the other 3, until some more 737 conversions came on board.) N620DL and N531UA both still show as being registered to CAM.

N557CM, N605DL, and N620DL were all sold on July 21 and placed in a trust (usually, if it's Bank of Utah, it's not something suspicious).

MO11 wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

Right now, N557CM and N605DL are reregistered to Bank of Utah. (ATI flew 605DL for DHL a little-longer than the other 3, until some more 737 conversions came on board.) N620DL and N531UA both still show as being registered to CAM.

N557CM, N605DL, and N620DL were all sold on July 21 and placed in a trust (usually, if it's Bank of Utah, it's not something suspicious).

Understood. Thanks!

I noticed Amazon has really stepped up its game on Puerto Rico. Previously most items would take several days to ship out, now most items typically ship out the next day, and many arrive earlier than what Amazon estimates when ordering. About 80% of orders to my grandfather's address ship via Amazon Air with last mile delivery via USPS. I still get occasional International Bridge and USPS Priority; haven't got UPS in a while.

I did notice that Amazon has removed the paid "Priority Shipping" upgrade option for my grandfather's address to Puerto Rico. As far as I know this option has always shipped via UPS Next Day Air.

HPRamper wrote:

Clancy223 wrote:

HPRamper wrote:

Amazon packages don't run tiny, for the most part, they are handler-friendly in my experience. That number for what the planes are carrying is a bit high, I'd estimate more like an average spectrum of maybe 6500 to a max of 10000 packages on a full flight.

The flights run with 15,000 - 30,000+ packages depending on aircraft and route.

I find that number fantastic considering a 100% MD11F which is half again the size of a 763F runs perhaps a bit over 15.5k not including a document container. This is at high density and payload of around 120k. With a 30,000 number that would mean Amazon is putting about 1200 packages into each AAX worth of space (with belly cans about half the cube of the uppers cans). I've been doing this for 15 years and I can definitively say that a completely jammed full AMJ - a larger container - will generally accept no more than 550 or so packages, many of which are quite small fillers.

Consistently saw 23k+ on brown’s MDs during peak. Biggest I ever saw was 33k.

They’re cramming a lot more than your estimates on those jets.

jetblueguy22 wrote:

HPRamper wrote:

Clancy223 wrote:

The flights run with 15,000 - 30,000+ packages depending on aircraft and route.

I find that number fantastic considering a 100% MD11F which is half again the size of a 763F runs perhaps a bit over 15.5k not including a document container. This is at high density and payload of around 120k. With a 30,000 number that would mean Amazon is putting about 1200 packages into each AAX worth of space (with belly cans about half the cube of the uppers cans). I've been doing this for 15 years and I can definitively say that a completely jammed full AMJ - a larger container - will generally accept no more than 550 or so packages, many of which are quite small fillers.

Consistently saw 23k+ on brown’s MDs during peak. Biggest I ever saw was 33k.

They’re cramming a lot more than your estimates on those jets.

That 20k+ count must include docs (which I think UPS calls smalls) right? Docs/smalls can really add up quickly without taking much space or payload. They represent very high quality revenue for the integrators as long as the delivery destinations are reasonably dense.

jjbiv wrote:

jetblueguy22 wrote:

HPRamper wrote:

I find that number fantastic considering a 100% MD11F which is half again the size of a 763F runs perhaps a bit over 15.5k not including a document container. This is at high density and payload of around 120k. With a 30,000 number that would mean Amazon is putting about 1200 packages into each AAX worth of space (with belly cans about half the cube of the uppers cans). I've been doing this for 15 years and I can definitively say that a completely jammed full AMJ - a larger container - will generally accept no more than 550 or so packages, many of which are quite small fillers.

Consistently saw 23k+ on brown’s MDs during peak. Biggest I ever saw was 33k.

They’re cramming a lot more than your estimates on those jets.

That 20k+ count must include docs (which I think UPS calls smalls) right? Docs/smalls can really add up quickly without taking much space or payload. They represent very high quality revenue for the integrators as long as the delivery destinations are reasonably dense.

That's why I avoided using docs/smalls in the calculation. Some flights are heavy on them, some flights have very few. UPS is better at capturing any amount of "small" packages into the bags, FX is much more inconsistent as they will bag up actual flat documents but then leave the other very small items to be loaded with the bigger stuff. They are, however, very dense and a single doc/smalls container can have thousands of pieces.

N605DL B752 ILN-HGR yesterday to join N557CM. cheers!

Southern air has started operations for amazon at BNA yesterday evening. RIV-BNA-ILN is the routing on a 737F

MO11 wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

Right now, N557CM and N605DL are reregistered to Bank of Utah. (ATI flew 605DL for DHL a little-longer than the other 3, until some more 737 conversions came on board.) N620DL and N531UA both still show as being registered to CAM.

N557CM, N605DL, and N620DL were all sold on July 21 and placed in a trust (usually, if it's Bank of Utah, it's not something suspicious).

As our friend GDavis003 pointed out, N557CM flew to HGR on 8/16/21. Now, N605DL has flown there as well. I just noticed it now, but it went two days ago on 9/2/21. Interesting to see when/if N620DL makes the trip, and what happens to these 3 aircraft.

And now I notice that our friend Stretch8 has already pointed this out to us...

ATI started flights from KONT to PHLI on 9/2. Route is ONT-HLI-HNL-ONT.

JayinKitsap wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

IS&S did let go one tidbit, which is that their system, which is installed now in some 500 aircraft, has proven to be extraordinarily-reliable, with a huge mean time between failures. The CEO said 250,000-300,000 hours mean time between failures, which I did a double-take on, but that's what he said. I thought that was interesting.

That is an amazing number, seems high, your following note proves that their MTBF is excellent, well well above the engines and other equipment.

The CEO also touted the fact that the system has sufficent redundancy that the FAA permits one to MEL the failure of one display panel or one of the 3 data concentrator units for 3 days in an ETOPS environment and 10 days non-ETOPS. Of course, if maintenance can just pull it out, "blow on it" and put it back in and it will work, that's even better!

On a cost-benefit analysis, doing this panel upgrade when converting should have a nice short payback period. Probably a lot less power used as well as lighter too.

There is an interesting video on this

https://youtu.be/Uxi1KNqNN4s

DL757NYC wrote:

There is an interesting video on this
https://youtu.be/Uxi1KNqNN4s

That's a good video which summarizes the benefits of the Rockwell Collins system.

Interesting that these guys, who are a reseller, spent the time to put it together.

At this point, with the UPS work being the single-biggest contract for the solution, both AMES (ATSG) and Cascade Aviation in Canada, likely have the most experience doing the upgrade, and they in fact did it on a 2-week turn per aircraft. AMES ran 2 lines, and Cascade ran one. Cascade did a good job on the 757s, and so picked up some of the remaining 767s as well. (I think Cascade got some of the A300 work, too.)

autopiloton wrote:

ATI started flights from KONT to PHLI on 9/2. Route is ONT-HLI-HNL-ONT.

ICAO airport code PHLI is IATA/FAA airport identifier LIH (Lihue, Hawaii) for anyone playing along at home.

ATSG continues to move their acquired 767-300s through pre-conversion maintenance in the US, including some interesting developments.

Most interesting involves one fo the DL birds. As you know, ATSG over-the-summer bought 152DL, 154DL, 155DL and 156DL, among others. 152 has been at ILN about 2 months and is probably next to go to TLV. 155 was parled at MZJ and 156 was parked at SBD with 155. Interesting move: Instead of going to ILN or TPA for pre-conversion work, 154 has now flown to ATL. It's still registered to Cargo Aircraft Management ("CAM", the ATSG leasing company). Perhaps DL will do some contract work on it for ATSG? (Perhaps there's some conformity issue that DL can best straighten out in its own facilities?) Interesting, anyway. DL and ATSG have a long symbiotic relationship with it comes to maintenance, with DL doing a lot of engine work for ATSG, and ATSG doing a lot of airframe-type work for DL.

The other interesting development is that N900UD is going from MZJ to ILN today to get in line to go over to TLV. That's interesting because it has PW4000s, one of two (with N898CU) ex-Air Canada 763s that ATSG recently bought with PW4000s. (There are several in the fleet with that engine already, 3 at ABX and a few leased out.)

wjcandee wrote:

Interesting move: Instead of going to ILN or TPA for pre-conversion work, 154 has now flown to ATL. It's still registered to Cargo Aircraft Management ("CAM", the ATSG leasing company). Perhaps DL will do some contract work on it for ATSG? (Perhaps there's some conformity issue that DL can best straighten out in its own facilities?) Interesting, anyway. DL and ATSG have a long symbiotic relationship with it comes to maintenance, with DL doing a lot of engine work for ATSG, and ATSG doing a lot of airframe-type work for DL.

I just read somewhere (here?) that it was in ATL for a triple gear change. I'll look for the source.

ETA: Found it. In the Delta Fleet Thread. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456049&start=1200#p22943799

TXRoadMan wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

154 has now flown to ATL.

I just read somewhere (here?) that it was in ATL for a triple gear change. I'll look for the source.

ETA: Found it. In the Delta Fleet Thread. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456049&start=1200#p22943799

Thank you!! Makes sense. That kind of information exchange is one of the greatest things about a.net. Thank you for so kindly pointing that out!

My pleasure, and 'the least I could do' doesn't even move the needle. I find your posts invaluable. Thanks for all that you do!

N900UD CAM B763 ex C-FMWU in air MZJ-ILN due in around 2000ishL. cheers!

TXRoadMan wrote:

My pleasure, and 'the least I could do' doesn't even move the needle. I find your posts invaluable. Thanks for all that you do!

Thank you! That made my day.

I'm noticing a couple of typos in my post on all this. I meant to say that N154DL had been at MZJ, not N155DL, which was with 156DL at SBD. (I also had a lot of spelling typos, which I usually try to spot and correct, but I think you guys can get he point: "parked" instead of "parled", etc.)

N391AA B763 was scheduled ILN-ROW this afternoon at 1200L as ATN241 maybe for paint, but appears to have canx. cheers!

stretch8 wrote:

N391AA B763 was scheduled ILN-ROW this afternoon at 1200L as ATN241 maybe for paint, but appears to have canx. cheers!

N391AA is going to Amazon as N241AZ, so you are doubtless correct that it's going for paint at Dean Baldwin Painting. That it's flying under an ATN flight number indicates what airline will be flying it for Amazon.

SP-MRF B762 returned from Sky Taxi lease LEJ-BGR-ILN today to ABX Air. cheers!

stretch8 wrote:

SP-MRF B762 returned from Sky Taxi lease LEJ-BGR-ILN today to ABX Air. cheers!

Interesting. I thought that Sky Taxi was going to get a second aircraft from CAM, not return their only 767. Could it be coming back for heavy maintenance? Sky Taxi has been flying it in regular rotation for DHL for about 2 years, and before that was more ad-hoc charter. It should have only around 45,000 cycles.

OTOH, it flew under its own callsign, not as a Sky Taxi flight, so you're most-likely correct, as you usually are...

(My notes re CAM 762s from about 6 months ago said 2 coming back from DHX, and one going out to Sky Taxi, one to Raya, one to Star Air.)

wjcandee wrote:

stretch8 wrote:

N391AA B763 was scheduled ILN-ROW this afternoon at 1200L as ATN241 maybe for paint, but appears to have canx. cheers!

N391AA is going to Amazon as N241AZ, so you are doubtless correct that it's going for paint at Dean Baldwin Painting. That it's flying under an ATN flight number indicates what airline will be flying it for Amazon.

For ATI:

241AZ, online after paint?
569AZ coming in October?
257AZ and 251AZ coming in November?

569 has been a bit of a mystery. Thought it was supposed to be online Aug. Not sure what the issue is there.

MajMattMason wrote:

569 has been a bit of a mystery. Thought it was supposed to be online Aug. Not sure what the issue is there.

Yeah, 569AZ has been at MEX for 11 months. Plainly, it's not going through the process at the same speed as others. Whether it has to do with whatever engineers/consultants Amazon is using to shepherd it through (as opposed to the greased wheels of CAM), or whether they're just not in a hurry, I don't know. I do know that they didn't have uber-specific plans for each aircraft when Amazon bought them, which is why they had the flexibility to send two to Cargojet to operate in Canada. I do note that 563AZ (now C-GAZF) took 10 months to be completed in MEX. Hard to know precisely-why. One possibility of course is also possibly Covid and the ability for MexicanaMRO to staff fully. With most of Israel fully-vaccinated, the Covid situation at IAI in TLV is very different than at their contract vendor at MEX.

Small World note: the guy (company, actually) that Cargojet used to manage the couple of conversions that it did "itself" through IAI was Tarpley, the guy who is part of the Mammoth Aviation lawsuit and purports to have all this conversion knowledge. It appears that he was employed by CAM for a long time in a role that involved interfacing with the conversion vendors, and after he left CAM, he set up a company to help others manage their own conversions. That's why he and the other Mammoth guy, who is an engineer, decided to join forces to try to do their own 777 conversion. (Tarpley was the "conversion expertise" guy, while the other guy was the "engineering expertise" guy.) The third guy involved, who is a defendant in their lawsuit, was a finance guy who walked away to start his own 777 conversion when they weren't willing to give him a third of the company to arrange the financing, and when they kind of downplayed his importance. He then kind of got the drop on them by lining up financing and associating with Wichita State as his engineering source and announcing his conversion. Now that the lawsuit is going hammer and tong, the Mammoth guys finally put up a web site and claim to have financing and to be moving forward fast enough to have a certified, flying, deliverable 777 freighter within 2 years from now. (We'll see.)

wjcandee wrote:

MajMattMason wrote:

569 has been a bit of a mystery. Thought it was supposed to be online Aug. Not sure what the issue is there.

Yeah, 569AZ has been at MEX for 11 months. Plainly, it's not going through the process at the same speed as others. Whether it has to do with whatever engineers/consultants Amazon is using to shepherd it through (as opposed to the greased wheels of CAM), or whether they're just not in a hurry, I don't know. I do know that they didn't have uber-specific plans for each aircraft when Amazon bought them, which is why they had the flexibility to send two to Cargojet to operate in Canada. I do note that 563AZ (now C-GAZF) took 10 months to be completed in MEX. Hard to know precisely-why. One possibility of course is also possibly Covid and the ability for MexicanaMRO to staff fully. With most of Israel fully-vaccinated, the Covid situation at IAI in TLV is very different than at their contract vendor at MEX.

Small World note: the guy (company, actually) that Cargojet used to manage the couple of conversions that it did "itself" through IAI was Tarpley, the guy who is part of the Mammoth Aviation lawsuit and purports to have all this conversion knowledge. It appears that he was employed by CAM for a long time in a role that involved interfacing with the conversion vendors, and after he left CAM, he set up a company to help others manage their own conversions. That's why he and the other Mammoth guy, who is an engineer, decided to join forces to try to do their own 777 conversion. (Tarpley was the "conversion expertise" guy, while the other guy was the "engineering expertise" guy.) The third guy involved, who is a defendant in their lawsuit, was a finance guy who walked away to start his own 777 conversion when they weren't willing to give him a third of the company to arrange the financing, and when they kind of downplayed his importance. He then kind of got the drop on them by lining up financing and associating with Wichita State as his engineering source and announcing his conversion. Now that the lawsuit is going hammer and tong, the Mammoth guys finally put up a web site and claim to have financing and to be moving forward fast enough to have a certified, flying, deliverable 777 freighter within 2 years from now. (We'll see.)

Thank you for all the information on the Seqouia & Mammoth setups. There is such a ton of perfectly setup 77Ws out there that I can't see just IAI running it alone. Shall be interesting to see how this plays out.

CX747 wrote:

Thank you for all the information on the Seqouia & Mammoth setups. There is such a ton of perfectly setup 77Ws out there that I can't see just IAI running it alone. Shall be interesting to see how this plays out.

Agreed there's room for more than one. It's just interesting that any owner of a substantial Fleet, or any Leasing Company, would want to bet on a completely unknown company or two, rather than associating with an experienced existing conversion house with an existing cargo door design, like AEI, or for that matter Boeing. I understand that everybody has to start somewhere, but on one of the biggest and most complicated freighter conversion projects in decades?

wjcandee wrote:

CX747 wrote:

Thank you for all the information on the Seqouia & Mammoth setups. There is such a ton of perfectly setup 77Ws out there that I can't see just IAI running it alone. Shall be interesting to see how this plays out.

Agreed there's room for more than one. It's just interesting that any owner of a substantial Fleet, or any Leasing Company, would want to bet on a completely unknown company or two, rather than associating with an experienced existing conversion house with an existing cargo door design, like AEI, or for that matter Boeing. I understand that everybody has to start somewhere, but on one of the biggest and most complicated freighter conversion projects in decades?

Completely agree on the thought process but you have to start somewhere. If we are going to jump in the pool, why not focus on the conversion gold standard for the world's widebody fleet?!?! I don't wish to take us too far off track but....IF we were buying converted 77Ws and you had to choose...Are you going with Seqouia or Mammoth?

N241AZ B763 ex N391AA departed CVG-ROW as ATN241 for paint, after canx this morning. cheers!

stretch8 wrote:

N241AZ B763 ex N391AA departed CVG-ROW as ATN241 for paint, after canx this morning. cheers!

Looks like ATI ran it over the weekend in revenue runs as N241AZ before sending it to paint on Monday.

wjcandee wrote:

ATSG continues to move their acquired 767-300s through pre-conversion maintenance in the US, including some interesting developments.

Most interesting involves one fo the DL birds. As you know, ATSG over-the-summer bought 152DL, 154DL, 155DL and 156DL, among others. 152 has been at ILN about 2 months and is probably next to go to TLV. 155 was parled at MZJ and 156 was parked at SBD with 155. Interesting move: Instead of going to ILN or TPA for pre-conversion work, 154 has now flown to ATL. It's still registered to Cargo Aircraft Management ("CAM", the ATSG leasing company). Perhaps DL will do some contract work on it for ATSG? (Perhaps there's some conformity issue that DL can best straighten out in its own facilities?) Interesting, anyway. DL and ATSG have a long symbiotic relationship with it comes to maintenance, with DL doing a lot of engine work for ATSG, and ATSG doing a lot of airframe-type work for DL.

The other interesting development is that N900UD is going from MZJ to ILN today to get in line to go over to TLV. That's interesting because it has PW4000s, one of two (with N898CU) ex-Air Canada 763s that ATSG recently bought with PW4000s. (There are several in the fleet with that engine already, 3 at ABX and a few leased out.)

I still scratch my head they are sending their oldest 767 through heavy checks and sold their newest 767’s.

DL757NYC wrote:

I still scratch my head they are sending their oldest 767 through heavy checks and sold their newest 767’s.

Most of the 767s are on the way out, makes sense to sell the newer ones that are worth far more first. They'll operate the small Premium Select subfleet for the low demand TATL routes for the foreseeable future. Such routes will be low on cycles, thus older frames are sufficient.

dl757nyc wrote:

I still scratch my head they are sending their oldest 767 through heavy checks and sold their newest 767’s.

Didn't we decide that the newer ones that were sold were part of a weird subfleet?

wjcandee wrote:

dl757nyc wrote:

I still scratch my head they are sending their oldest 767 through heavy checks and sold their newest 767’s.

Didn't we decide that the newer ones that were sold were part of a weird subfleet?

Or were we talking about Air Canada?

jbs2886 wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

Didn't we decide that the newer ones that were sold were part of a weird subfleet?

Or were we talking about Air Canada?

It was a DL subfleet.

Right, no, I realize that. What I was asking was whether the poster was talking about Air Canada keeping its older 767s and selling its younger ones, or was this the same discussion that we've had before about the DL 767 fleet decisions, which are explainable and make sense. But since he said "Premium Select", which is a DL product, I realize that it must be the latter question, which we have previously answered. And since AC has already unloaded all its 767s, that answers my question, which is looking pretty-dumb at this point. I just didn't want to assume something and look like a douche for telling the guy we had already discussed it on here.

Since we're the Nice Thread! But I should have engaged my brain first.

wjcandee wrote:

Since we're the Nice Thread! But I should have engaged my brain first.

Outside of the military threads, the freighter threads are quite adult and reasonable compared to the food fights on so many threads. Yes, the Nice threads.

It's interesting how more facts are brought forth and good discussions, without drama. Thanks to everyone
that contributes professionally.

-Jay

Scramble has a pic of the first Silver ATR in Amazon colors.

https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/1st- ... 2f-spotted

Spacepope wrote:

Scramble has a pic of the first Silver ATR in Amazon colors.

Good catch! I guess the limited fuselage space forward of the wing and aft of the cockpit leads to the tiny lettering. Looks sorta wimpy, but I guess that's all they could do.