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CMHtraveler
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:35 pm

Citrus1492 wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
CMHMarc787 wrote:

With the "strategic alliance" between AA and B6 moving ahead, I wouldn't be surprised if B6 made a return and did BOS & JFK. JFK is currently on COVID hiatus, but B6 could take that over. Plus BOS would be good for One World pax.

Just my $.02


I agree. CMH is almost tailor-made for B6 right now. For one thing, as noted above the new partnership is a plus; there is a strong AA FF base and it is consistently the #1 or #2 largest carrier. Then you look at routes:

BOS - WN off the route, only competition is DL returning at 2x daily (operated by YX).
JFK - AA and DL routes suspended for COVID (again operated by a regional), easy handoff from AA.
LAX - Same as above except they were mainline routes pre-COVID. AA has indicated they will not return and DL was a single daily red eye, return is unknown.

I would think the e190/a220 would be the perfect aircraft for BOS and JFK, especially competing against subcontracted regional service, and a daily 320 for an LAX route that has been shown to be successful (was recently at 2x a319, 1x 739 daily). Can’t imagine they aren’t looking at CMH, a lot has changed on both sides since the Skybus days.


Ok, let's say B6 opens CMH again. Trego-Dugan, Envoy or ATS for the ground ops? And which gate? Which bag claim?


Ideally Envoy (already handles below-wing for AA, above wing is mainline AA), the unleased shared gate in B (to allow for seamless connection to AA flights. B27 if memory serves?) and the same bag claims AA is using. I don’t know, however, if any of this goes beyond what coordination is allowable legally with the AA/B6 partnership. I also defer to DeltaRules on all things CMH infrastructure.

In a perfect future COVID-free world of renewed expansion, AS would also swap gates with NK and move over to B so that AA/AS/B6 would all be together in the B concourse to take advantage of potential connections.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5426
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:48 pm

Citrus1492 wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
CMHMarc787 wrote:

With the "strategic alliance" between AA and B6 moving ahead, I wouldn't be surprised if B6 made a return and did BOS & JFK. JFK is currently on COVID hiatus, but B6 could take that over. Plus BOS would be good for One World pax.

Just my $.02


I agree. CMH is almost tailor-made for B6 right now. For one thing, as noted above the new partnership is a plus; there is a strong AA FF base and it is consistently the #1 or #2 largest carrier. Then you look at routes:

BOS - WN off the route, only competition is DL returning at 2x daily (operated by YX).
JFK - AA and DL routes suspended for COVID (again operated by a regional), easy handoff from AA.
LAX - Same as above except they were mainline routes pre-COVID. AA has indicated they will not return and DL was a single daily red eye, return is unknown.

I would think the e190/a220 would be the perfect aircraft for BOS and JFK, especially competing against subcontracted regional service, and a daily 320 for an LAX route that has been shown to be successful (was recently at 2x a319, 1x 739 daily). Can’t imagine they aren’t looking at CMH, a lot has changed on both sides since the Skybus days.


Ok, let's say B6 opens CMH again. Trego-Dugan, Envoy or ATS for the ground ops? And which gate? Which bag claim?


Can't speak to the ground handling, but the last Competition Plan had A1 (open, no jetway), B25 (AA), B28 (AA), B34 (UA), B36 (NK/AA/UA overflow), C46 (open/FIS), C48 (DL RONs in good, non-COVID times), and C50 (same as 48) as City gates. You'd think they'd shack up with AA on B, so that'd make B25 or B28 prime real estate.

I don't even know who has which carousels at this point. I know WN is on 1, F9 and AS are on 6, and DL is on 7, but I don't know where NK/AA/UA/AC are on 2-5.

edit- A quick search of CMH's Arrivals page shows:
1- WN
2- UA (AC is presumably here, too)
3- NK
4- Open
5- AA
6- AS, F9
7- DL

I don't know how exactly baggage carousels are assigned (other than "it's kind of near their counters and gates") but, if they come, stick 'em on 4.
 
a320flyer
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:02 pm

Just announced, SY will begin service to CVG on May 14 with 2x/week service to MSP!
https://www.fox19.com/2021/01/25/new-ai ... nneapolis/

Hopefully the passenger flights do well. With them operating for Amazon, I imagine a pilot base could be possible.
 
jplatts
Posts: 5102
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:01 pm

plinth857 wrote:
I don't think they would have had much success here anyway. I'll be surprised if they get good numbers out of CVG.


Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for CVG-MSP on F9 in 2019:
CVG-MSP - 20034 passengers, 24870 seats, 80.55% load factor

SY might be able to make less-than-daily CVG-MSP nonstop service work post-pandemic with F9 off of the CVG-MSP route.
 
CMHARJ
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:28 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:47 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
Citrus1492 wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:

I agree. CMH is almost tailor-made for B6 right now. For one thing, as noted above the new partnership is a plus; there is a strong AA FF base and it is consistently the #1 or #2 largest carrier. Then you look at routes:

BOS - WN off the route, only competition is DL returning at 2x daily (operated by YX).
JFK - AA and DL routes suspended for COVID (again operated by a regional), easy handoff from AA.
LAX - Same as above except they were mainline routes pre-COVID. AA has indicated they will not return and DL was a single daily red eye, return is unknown.

I would think the e190/a220 would be the perfect aircraft for BOS and JFK, especially competing against subcontracted regional service, and a daily 320 for an LAX route that has been shown to be successful (was recently at 2x a319, 1x 739 daily). Can’t imagine they aren’t looking at CMH, a lot has changed on both sides since the Skybus days.


Ok, let's say B6 opens CMH again. Trego-Dugan, Envoy or ATS for the ground ops? And which gate? Which bag claim?


Ideally Envoy (already handles below-wing for AA, above wing is mainline AA), the unleased shared gate in B (to allow for seamless connection to AA flights. B27 if memory serves?) and the same bag claims AA is using. I don’t know, however, if any of this goes beyond what coordination is allowable legally with the AA/B6 partnership. I also defer to DeltaRules on all things CMH infrastructure.

In a perfect future COVID-free world of renewed expansion, AS would also swap gates with NK and move over to B so that AA/AS/B6 would all be together in the B concourse to take advantage of potential connections.

What is in the AA contract that requires a station must be handled by mainline employees for both above and below wing? mainline only above wing? outsourced both above and below wing?
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2388
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:07 pm

CMHARJ wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
Citrus1492 wrote:

Ok, let's say B6 opens CMH again. Trego-Dugan, Envoy or ATS for the ground ops? And which gate? Which bag claim?


Ideally Envoy (already handles below-wing for AA, above wing is mainline AA), the unleased shared gate in B (to allow for seamless connection to AA flights. B27 if memory serves?) and the same bag claims AA is using. I don’t know, however, if any of this goes beyond what coordination is allowable legally with the AA/B6 partnership. I also defer to DeltaRules on all things CMH infrastructure.

In a perfect future COVID-free world of renewed expansion, AS would also swap gates with NK and move over to B so that AA/AS/B6 would all be together in the B concourse to take advantage of potential connections.

What is in the AA contract that requires a station must be handled by mainline employees for both above and below wing? mainline only above wing? outsourced both above and below wing?


I agree that, in a perfect world, AA-AS (-and hopefully B6) would consolidate in B with ground handling provided by envoy. That's a good question on the AA contract requirements. My understanding is that CMH was right on the cusp of outsourcing the above-wing, so it's probably quite a bit more mainline than what was flown out of the airport pre-COVID-19. I can't see below-wing going mainline for that reason, but having envoy is likely better than an unaffiliated 3rd party, like Jetstream. Regarding jetBlue, I'm really hoping that a second attempt at serving the market is on their radar. Not sure of the actual likelihood, but hoping for better indications of the possibility as the year continues.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6720
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:42 pm

flyCMH wrote:
CMHARJ wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:

Ideally Envoy (already handles below-wing for AA, above wing is mainline AA), the unleased shared gate in B (to allow for seamless connection to AA flights. B27 if memory serves?) and the same bag claims AA is using. I don’t know, however, if any of this goes beyond what coordination is allowable legally with the AA/B6 partnership. I also defer to DeltaRules on all things CMH infrastructure.

In a perfect future COVID-free world of renewed expansion, AS would also swap gates with NK and move over to B so that AA/AS/B6 would all be together in the B concourse to take advantage of potential connections.

What is in the AA contract that requires a station must be handled by mainline employees for both above and below wing? mainline only above wing? outsourced both above and below wing?


I agree that, in a perfect world, AA-AS (-and hopefully B6) would consolidate in B with ground handling provided by envoy. That's a good question on the AA contract requirements. My understanding is that CMH was right on the cusp of outsourcing the above-wing, so it's probably quite a bit more mainline than what was flown out of the airport pre-COVID-19. I can't see below-wing going mainline for that reason, but having envoy is likely better than an unaffiliated 3rd party, like Jetstream. Regarding jetBlue, I'm really hoping that a second attempt at serving the market is on their radar. Not sure of the actual likelihood, but hoping for better indications of the possibility as the year continues.

I would be surprised if JetBlue doesn't announce cmh this year.
 
CMHARJ
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:28 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:31 pm

flyCMH wrote:
CMHARJ wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:

Ideally Envoy (already handles below-wing for AA, above wing is mainline AA), the unleased shared gate in B (to allow for seamless connection to AA flights. B27 if memory serves?) and the same bag claims AA is using. I don’t know, however, if any of this goes beyond what coordination is allowable legally with the AA/B6 partnership. I also defer to DeltaRules on all things CMH infrastructure.

In a perfect future COVID-free world of renewed expansion, AS would also swap gates with NK and move over to B so that AA/AS/B6 would all be together in the B concourse to take advantage of potential connections.

What is in the AA contract that requires a station must be handled by mainline employees for both above and below wing? mainline only above wing? outsourced both above and below wing?


I agree that, in a perfect world, AA-AS (-and hopefully B6) would consolidate in B with ground handling provided by envoy. That's a good question on the AA contract requirements. My understanding is that CMH was right on the cusp of outsourcing the above-wing, so it's probably quite a bit more mainline than what was flown out of the airport pre-COVID-19. I can't see below-wing going mainline for that reason, but having envoy is likely better than an unaffiliated 3rd party, like Jetstream. Regarding jetBlue, I'm really hoping that a second attempt at serving the market is on their radar. Not sure of the actual likelihood, but hoping for better indications of the possibility as the year continues.

Pre-merger with AA/US, I know US was mainline employees at CMH, not sure what AA was. I thought Lane Avation or a 3rd party was the outsourced company that did below-wing for AA at CMH. I could be wrong though. Prior to Covid and during the "good ole days", I believe AA had 5 mainline flights to DFW (mix of MD80s and 737), 2 mainline to LAX (mix of 737/320) and 2 mainline to PHX (319/320). CLT, DCA, PHL, LGA, JFK, MIA never saw mainline flying and it was extreamly rare to see a mainline flight to ORD. Do you remember what US flew on a regular basis to CLT, PHL, and PHX? Heck, include PIT back in its hub days too
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:16 pm

CMHARJ wrote:
flyCMH wrote:
CMHARJ wrote:
What is in the AA contract that requires a station must be handled by mainline employees for both above and below wing? mainline only above wing? outsourced both above and below wing?


I agree that, in a perfect world, AA-AS (-and hopefully B6) would consolidate in B with ground handling provided by envoy. That's a good question on the AA contract requirements. My understanding is that CMH was right on the cusp of outsourcing the above-wing, so it's probably quite a bit more mainline than what was flown out of the airport pre-COVID-19. I can't see below-wing going mainline for that reason, but having envoy is likely better than an unaffiliated 3rd party, like Jetstream. Regarding jetBlue, I'm really hoping that a second attempt at serving the market is on their radar. Not sure of the actual likelihood, but hoping for better indications of the possibility as the year continues.

Pre-merger with AA/US, I know US was mainline employees at CMH, not sure what AA was. I thought Lane Avation or a 3rd party was the outsourced company that did below-wing for AA at CMH. I could be wrong though. Prior to Covid and during the "good ole days", I believe AA had 5 mainline flights to DFW (mix of MD80s and 737), 2 mainline to LAX (mix of 737/320) and 2 mainline to PHX (319/320). CLT, DCA, PHL, LGA, JFK, MIA never saw mainline flying and it was extreamly rare to see a mainline flight to ORD. Do you remember what US flew on a regular basis to CLT, PHL, and PHX? Heck, include PIT back in its hub days too


An above-wing AA employee I know at CMH told me it was just the opposite- that below wing was close to going mainline at CMH before COVID hit. Apparently this is triggered in the IAM/TWU union contract by the number of mainline flights per day from a station.

Currently CMH is down quite a few AA mainline flights with DFW down to half mainline, PHX down to 1x mainline, and LAX cut completely. This is despite the pickup of 1x CLT mainline and the new mainline CUN flight, which at seasonal Saturday-only doesn’t make a huge impact (though AA dipping their toes in the international water from CMH is exciting!) Just before COVID that CLT mainline flight may have pushed them over the contract floor for mainline below-wing, but now it will be awhile...
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5426
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:12 pm

CMHARJ wrote:
flyCMH wrote:
Do you remember what US flew on a regular basis to CLT, PHL, and PHX? Heck, include PIT back in its hub days too


Here's what I flew to/from the hubs pre-HP merger (since I decided to keep the travel logbook I started in middle school (researching the old flights through BTS) going): DC9, 320, 319, 734, ERJ (CLT); DC9, F100, 319, 732, ERJ (PHL), DC9, EM2, 733, F100, 328, M80, F28, ERJ (PIT).

Somebody on the forums who said they worked for US once said CMH-PIT saw 757s at one point, but I haven't been able to verify that.

It wasn't long after the merger mainline started disappearing and the E70s/CR9s/ERJs came en masse. In 2008, the only mainline east of the Mississippi was a PHL-CMH-DCA 733.
 
atbPy
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:33 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
CMHARJ wrote:
flyCMH wrote:
Do you remember what US flew on a regular basis to CLT, PHL, and PHX? Heck, include PIT back in its hub days too


Here's what I flew to/from the hubs pre-HP merger (since I decided to keep the travel logbook I started in middle school (researching the old flights through BTS) going): DC9, 320, 319, 734, ERJ (CLT); DC9, F100, 319, 732, ERJ (PHL), DC9, EM2, 733, F100, 328, M80, F28, ERJ (PIT).

Somebody on the forums who said they worked for US once said CMH-PIT saw 757s at one point, but I haven't been able to verify that.

It wasn't long after the merger mainline started disappearing and the E70s/CR9s/ERJs came en masse. In 2008, the only mainline east of the Mississippi was a PHL-CMH-DCA 733.


Wow that is quite the variety of planes! It is surprising how short of a connection used to be in use. I guess it isn't too much different than to DTW or ORD.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5426
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:36 am

 
flyCMH
Posts: 2388
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:43 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
CMHARJ wrote:
flyCMH wrote:
Do you remember what US flew on a regular basis to CLT, PHL, and PHX? Heck, include PIT back in its hub days too


Here's what I flew to/from the hubs pre-HP merger (since I decided to keep the travel logbook I started in middle school (researching the old flights through BTS) going): DC9, 320, 319, 734, ERJ (CLT); DC9, F100, 319, 732, ERJ (PHL), DC9, EM2, 733, F100, 328, M80, F28, ERJ (PIT).

Somebody on the forums who said they worked for US once said CMH-PIT saw 757s at one point, but I haven't been able to verify that.

It wasn't long after the merger mainline started disappearing and the E70s/CR9s/ERJs came en masse. In 2008, the only mainline east of the Mississippi was a PHL-CMH-DCA 733.


I don't recall ever seeing a 757 on CMH-PIT, but USAirways did fly an A321 on the CMH-PHL route for a summer back in 2005. I do recall that last 733 to DCA as well.

atbPy wrote:
Wow that is quite the variety of planes! It is surprising how short of a connection used to be in use. I guess it isn't too much different than to DTW or ORD.


Or back in the CVG hub days when there were multiple 757s flying daily from CMH to CVG.

DeltaRules wrote:


Pretty-much mirrors national and regional trends with overall traffic down about 63% compared to 2019. Below is an article summarizing the numbers from Business First:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... -2020.html
 
User avatar
AirportRival
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:24 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:46 pm

CVG will be leasing Miami University Airport in Oxford. They didn't mention any specific plans on what they are going to do with it but it's an interesting move.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... rport.html
 
User avatar
Citrus1492
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:36 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:40 pm

AirportRival wrote:
CVG will be leasing Miami University Airport in Oxford. They didn't mention any specific plans on what they are going to do with it but it's an interesting move.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... rport.html


Cool, move CVG to Ohio where it belongs.
 
a320flyer
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:04 pm

DL has cut CVG-IAH/PHX. I imagine WN starting HOU/AA starting PHX made them difficult to keep, though I'm surprised they let them go so easily.

Non-hub routes that have not resumed yet (and haven't been cut) are BWI, CDG, DFW, ORD, PHL, RDU and SFO. I can't see RDU/SFO going anywhere since they have no competition, but with the rest could be at risk depending on how deep they decide to cut. CDG is different since it can't feasibly come back until COVID subsides, which likely won't be before 2022 at this point.

DEN/LAS/MCO/RSW/FLL/TPA/DCA/EWR have already resumed and likely won't be going anywhere.

Truly sad to see more routes go, but we won't know how many of these cuts are permanent for quite some time. I'm sure they will be watching as the industry eventually recovers and resume routes where possible.
 
jplatts
Posts: 5102
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:34 pm

a320flyer wrote:
Non-hub routes that have not resumed yet (and haven't been cut) are BWI, CDG, DFW, ORD, PHL, RDU and SFO. I can't see RDU/SFO going anywhere since they have no competition, but with the rest could be at risk depending on how deep they decide to cut.


I agree that DL dropping CVG-BWI/DFW/ORD/PHL nonstop service are possibilities with WN still serving BWI and MDW nonstop from CVG, AA still serving DFW, ORD, and PHL nonstop from CVG, and UA still serving ORD and IAD nonstop from CVG.

I had previously mentioned UA re-adding CVG-SFO nonstop service as a possibility once demand recovers with the demand between CVG and the San Francisco Bay Area exceeding the capacity available on DL CVG-SFO nonstop flights in 2019 as the average PDEW between CVG and the San Francisco Bay Area was 297 passengers per day in 2019. There are also other airlines such as F9, AS, G4, or WN that could add nonstop service to the San Francisco Bay Area from CVG if DL drops CVG-SFO nonstop service.

DL permanently dropping CVG-SFO nonstop service is a possibility with other airlines being able to add CVG-SFO nonstop service once demand recovers.

WN adding CVG-DAL nonstop service might be a possibility with
(a) Dallas being one of the top destinations traveled to from CVG,
(b) DAL being one of WN's largest hubs,
(c) the possibility of further cuts by DL or F9 on the CVG-DFW route,
(d) the connecting opportunities available at DAL on WN,
(e) WN having a significant FF base in the Dallas market and other Texas markets to support CVG-DAL nonstop service on WN,
(f) WN having stronger point-of-sale in the Dallas market than DL or F9, and
(g) WN being less reliant on CVG point-of-sale or O&D to make CVG-DAL nonstop service work, whereas DL and F9 were both more reliant on CVG point-of-sale and O&D to make CVG-DFW nonstop service work.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:33 am

According to the WN thread, CMH will be one of the dozen or so cities in the network to see the first MAX flights return starting on March 11, on one of the two scheduled daily CMH-PHX flights. My first MAX trip was WN CMH-HOU, will be nice to see them come through again!
 
atbPy
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:23 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
According to the WN thread, CMH will be one of the dozen or so cities in the network to see the first MAX flights return starting on March 11, on one of the two scheduled daily CMH-PHX flights. My first MAX trip was WN CMH-HOU, will be nice to see them come through again!


It will be good to see the MAX at CMH again! Looking forward to flying on it.
 
StuckinCMHland
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:59 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:43 pm

Just curious if you have info.

A couple/few/several years ago DL ran a CMH-MCO nonstop in the summer on weekends on an E-170. I thought UA also ran a non-stop E-170 on the same route. Are either of them going to do anything like that in the near of long-term future? It is so nice to have that option without having to go to CLE to fly UA, or head over to LCK and try your luck with G4.

Thanks for the info.
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:45 pm

StuckinCMHland wrote:
Just curious if you have info.

A couple/few/several years ago DL ran a CMH-MCO nonstop in the summer on weekends on an E-170. I thought UA also ran a non-stop E-170 on the same route. Are either of them going to do anything like that in the near of long-term future? It is so nice to have that option without having to go to CLE to fly UA, or head over to LCK and try your luck with G4.

Thanks for the info.
You have Southwest you can fly.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
StuckinCMHland
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:59 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:58 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
StuckinCMHland wrote:
Just curious if you have info.

A couple/few/several years ago DL ran a CMH-MCO nonstop in the summer on weekends on an E-170. I thought UA also ran a non-stop E-170 on the same route. Are either of them going to do anything like that in the near of long-term future? It is so nice to have that option without having to go to CLE to fly UA, or head over to LCK and try your luck with G4.

Thanks for the info.
You have Southwest you can fly.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Ah, please excuse me as I go wipe the egg off my face. My couple of experiences on SWA were not good, so I didn't even think about them. I might consider them again. :flamed: :boxedin: :guilty:
 
StuckinCMHland
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:59 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:59 pm

I still prefer UA or DL, but maybe with SWA all over the route they won't have anything anytime soon.
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:01 pm

I always check Southwest 1st. If I can get a nonstop on Delta out of CVG I'll fly Delta.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5426
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:15 pm

StuckinCMHland wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
StuckinCMHland wrote:
Just curious if you have info.

A couple/few/several years ago DL ran a CMH-MCO nonstop in the summer on weekends on an E-170. I thought UA also ran a non-stop E-170 on the same route. Are either of them going to do anything like that in the near of long-term future? It is so nice to have that option without having to go to CLE to fly UA, or head over to LCK and try your luck with G4.

Thanks for the info.
You have Southwest you can fly.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Ah, please excuse me as I go wipe the egg off my face. My couple of experiences on SWA were not good, so I didn't even think about them. I might consider them again. :flamed: :boxedin: :guilty:


DL has had a presence on CMH-MCO more often than not over the last 30 years or so. It went from mainline to Delta Express to multiple ERJs a day and, most recently, ran as a seasonal, Saturday-only E175 typically in the Winter and Spring months to make use of an airplane that would otherwise be idle for the day. I'm a bit surprised they're not running it this season given the shift toward Florida/Sun flying in spite of COVID. WN, NK, and F9 all run CMH-MCO in addition to LCK-SFB on G4.

I'm not aware UA ever ran CMH-MCO, but they weren't really in the point-to-point game until this year, when they added CMH-RSW. US (and somewhat randomly, IIRC) NW did at one point.
 
a320flyer
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:49 am

Allegiant has added CVG-EYW starting June 9. (I believe) this is the first time CVG has had service to Key West!

Kinda surprised we didn't get RAP/PDX like some other midwest stations, hopefully those and HOU are added in another schedule release.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:36 pm

According to today’s OAG thread, DL has permanently cut CMH-LAX from the schedule. AA had previously done the same.

CMH is now officially without a single nonstop flight to the second largest city in the United States. This comes only a couple of years after the route was 3x daily mainline on 2 airlines. The COVID suspensions were understandable but this situation on a permanent basis is, frankly, embarrassing for a city of this size.

It can’t last, can it? Who will fill the gap? NK, WN, UA, B6?
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5426
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:15 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
According to today’s OAG thread, DL has permanently cut CMH-LAX from the schedule. AA had previously done the same.

CMH is now officially without a single nonstop flight to the second largest city in the United States. This comes only a couple of years after the route was 3x daily mainline on 2 airlines. The COVID suspensions were understandable but this situation on a permanent basis is, frankly, embarrassing for a city of this size.

It can’t last, can it? Who will fill the gap? NK, WN, UA, B6?


Maybe I'm wrong, but I take the "permanent" reduction with a grain of salt in that, once the world returns to some semblance of normalcy, either one could add the route back (with AA possibly doing it via throwing a codeshare on a B6 flight if they come to town). As you mentioned, it was too good a performer to not return at some point.

Perhaps more encouraging is CMH-SLC resumes in April per the OAG thread. I would've figured that would've been permanently dropped before LAX.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:25 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
According to today’s OAG thread, DL has permanently cut CMH-LAX from the schedule. AA had previously done the same.

CMH is now officially without a single nonstop flight to the second largest city in the United States. This comes only a couple of years after the route was 3x daily mainline on 2 airlines. The COVID suspensions were understandable but this situation on a permanent basis is, frankly, embarrassing for a city of this size.

It can’t last, can it? Who will fill the gap? NK, WN, UA, B6?


Maybe I'm wrong, but I take the "permanent" reduction with a grain of salt in that, once the world returns to some semblance of normalcy, either one could add the route back (with AA possibly doing it via throwing a codeshare on a B6 flight if they come to town). As you mentioned, it was too good a performer to not return at some point.

Perhaps more encouraging is CMH-SLC resumes in April per the OAG thread. I would've figured that would've been permanently dropped before LAX.


I agree with your assessment. It seems like the big 4 are trying to route west coast CMH connections through their Rockies/Southwest hubs.

AA - PHX (recently upguaged)
DL - SLC (April resumption)
WN - PHX (back up to 2x in this week’s OAG)
UA - DEN (mainline resumed this month)

I would be most excited about an AA/B6 resumption of LAX but at this point would take absolutely anyone filling that gap. Insane you’ll soon be able to fly nonstop to Norfolk, VA from Columbus but not Los Angeles.
 
jplatts
Posts: 5102
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:05 pm

a320flyer wrote:
Kinda surprised we didn't get RAP/PDX like some other midwest stations, hopefully those and HOU are added in another schedule release.


I agree that G4 adding less-than-daily CVG-HOU nonstop service might be a possibility once demand recovers with (a) DL and F9 both having already dropped CVG-IAH nonstop service (b) CVG-IAH/HOU having less capacity in Summer 2021 (even with WN serving HOU nonstop from CVG) than it did in Summer 2017 when UA, DL, and F9 all served IAH nonstop from CVG.

G4 adding CVG-BOS nonstop service might also be a possibility with G4 already serving both CVG and BOS and with CVG-BOS being one of the top routes out of CVG without any nonstop competition.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5426
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:44 pm

G4 added CVG-EYW, which is a heck of an add. How payload-restricted is that flight going to have to be?
 
jplatts
Posts: 5102
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:33 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
According to today’s OAG thread, DL has permanently cut CMH-LAX from the schedule. AA had previously done the same.

CMH is now officially without a single nonstop flight to the second largest city in the United States. This comes only a couple of years after the route was 3x daily mainline on 2 airlines. The COVID suspensions were understandable but this situation on a permanent basis is, frankly, embarrassing for a city of this size.

It can’t last, can it? Who will fill the gap? NK, WN, UA, B6?


WN adding CMH-LAX nonstop service might be a possibility once demand recovers with WN having previously operated MKE-LAX nonstop service, which had no nonstop competition prior to WN dropping MKE-LAX nonstop service. WN is also currently the only airline serving MDW and HOU nonstop from LAX, but other airlines serve ORD and IAH nonstop from LAX.

I am unsure if WN will add CMH-LAX nonstop service anytime soon with WN having already dropped LAX-ATL/IND/MKE/PDX nonstop service.

While UA does serve some non-UA hub destinations nonstop from LAX, most of the non-UA hub domestic destinations that UA serves nonstop from LAX are located west of the Mississippi River.
 
Robert1010
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:24 pm

NK adding CAK-MYR ! Spirit Airlines adds twice-weekly service between Akron-Canton and Myrtle Beach
 
User avatar
Citrus1492
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:36 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:08 pm

jplatts wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
According to today’s OAG thread, DL has permanently cut CMH-LAX from the schedule. AA had previously done the same.

CMH is now officially without a single nonstop flight to the second largest city in the United States. This comes only a couple of years after the route was 3x daily mainline on 2 airlines. The COVID suspensions were understandable but this situation on a permanent basis is, frankly, embarrassing for a city of this size.

It can’t last, can it? Who will fill the gap? NK, WN, UA, B6?


WN adding CMH-LAX nonstop service might be a possibility once demand recovers with WN having previously operated MKE-LAX nonstop service, which had no nonstop competition prior to WN dropping MKE-LAX nonstop service. WN is also currently the only airline serving MDW and HOU nonstop from LAX, but other airlines serve ORD and IAH nonstop from LAX.

I am unsure if WN will add CMH-LAX nonstop service anytime soon with WN having already dropped LAX-ATL/IND/MKE/PDX nonstop service.

While UA does serve some non-UA hub destinations nonstop from LAX, most of the non-UA hub domestic destinations that UA serves nonstop from LAX are located west of the Mississippi River.


I would not be surprised to see WN do CMHLAX as a thru flight via LAS or PHX. That would be a low risk way to test the market.
 
atbPy
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:16 am

Robert1010 wrote:
NK adding CAK-MYR ! Spirit Airlines adds twice-weekly service between Akron-Canton and Myrtle Beach


Nice to see my hometown airport pick up a route!
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5426
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:41 pm

Citrus1492 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
According to today’s OAG thread, DL has permanently cut CMH-LAX from the schedule. AA had previously done the same.

CMH is now officially without a single nonstop flight to the second largest city in the United States. This comes only a couple of years after the route was 3x daily mainline on 2 airlines. The COVID suspensions were understandable but this situation on a permanent basis is, frankly, embarrassing for a city of this size.

It can’t last, can it? Who will fill the gap? NK, WN, UA, B6?


WN adding CMH-LAX nonstop service might be a possibility once demand recovers with WN having previously operated MKE-LAX nonstop service, which had no nonstop competition prior to WN dropping MKE-LAX nonstop service. WN is also currently the only airline serving MDW and HOU nonstop from LAX, but other airlines serve ORD and IAH nonstop from LAX.

I am unsure if WN will add CMH-LAX nonstop service anytime soon with WN having already dropped LAX-ATL/IND/MKE/PDX nonstop service.

While UA does serve some non-UA hub destinations nonstop from LAX, most of the non-UA hub domestic destinations that UA serves nonstop from LAX are located west of the Mississippi River.


I would not be surprised to see WN do CMHLAX as a thru flight via LAS or PHX. That would be a low risk way to test the market.


Given they started CMH-OAK on their own (with a little financial incentive), I'd think they'd go all in on a nonstop CMH-LAX (which could spur one of AA/B6 or DL to restart it sooner).
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5426
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:35 am

knope2001 did some combing through WN's March schedule for additions to vacation destinations and CMH is 5th on the list behind three hubs and a healthy WN city (MKE):

knope2001 wrote:
Doing a manual check for March starting 3/11 (when the "spring" schedule seems to kick in) here's what I find in "sun" leisure markets to Florida and Phoenix. Some of the additions do spill into the first 11 days of April but I didn't spend the extra time on checking into April.

Origin markets - all points north and east (inclusive of) North Carolina/Tennessee/Missouri/Kansas/Nebraska headed to FL/PHX
Added flights in the 5000 series operating between 3/11 and 3/31
52 MDW
44 STL
36 MKE
35 BWI
24 CMH
18 IND BNA
13 RDU
8 MCI
4 GRR
3 BUF SDF MEM MSP
1 ISP OMA ROC ICT
0 ALB BOS CLE CLT CVG DTW BDL MHT LGA ORF PHL PIT PVD RIC IAD DCA

Destination markets -- PHX and all FL (except JAX) from the "origin" markets
Added flights in the 5000 series operating between 3/11 and 3/31
84 MCO
64 TPA
52 RSW
24 PHX
23 ECP
19 FLL
1 PNS SRQ PBI
0 MIA
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:57 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
knope2001 did some combing through WN's March schedule for additions to vacation destinations and CMH is 5th on the list behind three hubs and a healthy WN city (MKE):

knope2001 wrote:
Doing a manual check for March starting 3/11 (when the "spring" schedule seems to kick in) here's what I find in "sun" leisure markets to Florida and Phoenix. Some of the additions do spill into the first 11 days of April but I didn't spend the extra time on checking into April.

Origin markets - all points north and east (inclusive of) North Carolina/Tennessee/Missouri/Kansas/Nebraska headed to FL/PHX
Added flights in the 5000 series operating between 3/11 and 3/31
52 MDW
44 STL
36 MKE
35 BWI
24 CMH
18 IND BNA
13 RDU
8 MCI
4 GRR
3 BUF SDF MEM MSP
1 ISP OMA ROC ICT
0 ALB BOS CLE CLT CVG DTW BDL MHT LGA ORF PHL PIT PVD RIC IAD DCA

Destination markets -- PHX and all FL (except JAX) from the "origin" markets
Added flights in the 5000 series operating between 3/11 and 3/31
84 MCO
64 TPA
52 RSW
24 PHX
23 ECP
19 FLL
1 PNS SRQ PBI
0 MIA


This is certainly welcome news. Another interesting CMH development is that AS’ SEA flight seems to have been simultaneously cut back to less than daily and upguaged from 320 to 739.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5426
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:46 am

AA's LGA-CMH is coming back in April per Midwestindy in the AA thread.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5426
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:17 am

I'm noticing DL's CMH-ATL goes to 5x daily in March with the noticeable note that the last inbound/first outbound is an E175, which is the first time I've seen an RJ on that route since FL came to town more than decade ago. I'm hoping that's not a sign of things to come, as I don't want to go back to the lateish bad old days of 2006-07 where most everything is a CRJ or ERJ on the route. (The other four flights are 2x 739 and 717 each, so that stays the same.) Maybe it's shuttling a 175 to/from ATL?
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2388
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:41 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
I'm noticing DL's CMH-ATL goes to 5x daily in March with the noticeable note that the last inbound/first outbound is an E175, which is the first time I've seen an RJ on that route since FL came to town more than decade ago. I'm hoping that's not a sign of things to come, as I don't want to go back to the lateish bad old days of 2006-07 where most everything is a CRJ or ERJ on the route. (The other four flights are 2x 739 and 717 each, so that stays the same.) Maybe it's shuttling a 175 to/from ATL?


Could be a mix of getting an E75 to/from ATL and a placeholder for the soon-to-be gone 717 fleet. Many of the CMH-ATL flights have been on the 717 as of late, so while the narrowbody fleet transitions away from them, the E75s might be a decent backfill, at least until more A220s come in.
 
Jshank83
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:19 pm

AA starting BOS-CMH Aug 17
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:18 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
AA starting BOS-CMH Aug 17


Did not see this coming. It pours some cold water on any thoughts of B6 at CMH in the near future, no? I’m gonna guess YX will be operating these. Flights do not appear to be bookable yet.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5426
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:03 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
AA starting BOS-CMH Aug 17


Did not see this coming. It pours some cold water on any thoughts of B6 at CMH in the near future, no? I’m gonna guess YX will be operating these. Flights do not appear to be bookable yet.


I figured it was plausible after AA added IND-BOS, but didn't see it coming after COVID happened. I figure this will get a B6 codeshare thrown on it, but it doesn't block B6 from picking up some/all of the NYC flying. It looks (at least at this point) that AA's CMH-JFK may not be coming back, which could open the door for B6 to connect CMH to its own JFK network, as well as AA's TATL system.
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1528
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:17 pm

Some news out of TOL.

January Pax Stats were down 52% January 2021 over January 2020
Allegiant Air: 5,647 (9,563)
American Airlines operated by American Eagle: 3,579 (9,732)
Total Passengers: 9,226 (19,295)

Finally found the logistics company that will be handling around 14 weekly cargo flights out of TOL: Pinnacle Logistics https://www.pinnaclelogistics.com/ They are in the process of hiring the Toledo team now...just wondering who they will be handling now. Anyone have any insight?
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2388
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:19 am

DeltaRules wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
AA starting BOS-CMH Aug 17


Did not see this coming. It pours some cold water on any thoughts of B6 at CMH in the near future, no? I’m gonna guess YX will be operating these. Flights do not appear to be bookable yet.


I figured it was plausible after AA added IND-BOS, but didn't see it coming after COVID happened. I figure this will get a B6 codeshare thrown on it, but it doesn't block B6 from picking up some/all of the NYC flying. It looks (at least at this point) that AA's CMH-JFK may not be coming back, which could open the door for B6 to connect CMH to its own JFK network, as well as AA's TATL system.


I'm with you on thinking BOS-CMH was possible after BOS-IND was announced. Likewise, I didn't think the route would be a probable add in a continued pandemic environment. Regardless, glad to see it coming. Still awaiting a return of the route on Delta. It was supposed to come back next month, followed by an April 1 relaunch, but doesn't seem to be available yet. Regarding how this could affect a return of jetBlue to the market, I think it's still too early to tell. It's possible that Eagle flying with Republic and their crew/mx base in CMH will be sufficient to feed both carriers in their respective east coast hubs. Though there's talk of B6 needing to send their growing fleet to new destinations in the middle of the country, and the A220 could be a very cost-efficient way to serve markets such as CMH.
 
Delta28L
Posts: 490
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:25 am

flyinryan99 wrote:
Some news out of TOL.

January Pax Stats were down 52% January 2021 over January 2020
Allegiant Air: 5,647 (9,563)
American Airlines operated by American Eagle: 3,579 (9,732)
Total Passengers: 9,226 (19,295)

Finally found the logistics company that will be handling around 14 weekly cargo flights out of TOL: Pinnacle Logistics https://www.pinnaclelogistics.com/ They are in the process of hiring the Toledo team now...just wondering who they will be handling now. Anyone have any insight?


They do/did a lot of work for amazon air
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2388
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:40 am

flyinryan99 wrote:
Finally found the logistics company that will be handling around 14 weekly cargo flights out of TOL: Pinnacle Logistics https://www.pinnaclelogistics.com/ They are in the process of hiring the Toledo team now...just wondering who they will be handling now. Anyone have any insight?


That's great news. Would it be a return of Amazon Air cargo (ATI)? They flew approx. 14 weekly flights from TOL-CVG-MSP, correct?
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5426
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:28 am

Looking at FlyColumbus.com's list of CMH/LCK destinations as of 12-22-20, including those suspended (https://flycolumbus.com/storage/product ... 2-2020.pdf), the list had shortened and showed the following still haven't come back:
-BOS (AA announced today, DL will probably bring back)
-JAX (G4 was seasonal anyway, probably comes back)
-LAX (AA and DL appear to have dropped, but I can't believe one of them won't bring it back, especially if somebody else (WN, B6, NK, etc.) announces it and they get territorial.
-MYR (returning on both G4 and NK in April)
-MSY (seasonal on both WN and NK)
-JFK (has value to DL given TATL network and either AA or B6 will run it to represent their partnership.)
-PUJ (they still list as a Vacation Express destination, but VE is bringing back CUN in May)
-RDU (lives and dies with the DL focus city, but there's been a fairly constant airline link between the two over time between JI, AA, DL, and that weird time where F9 ran it)
-SLC (returns in April)
-SFO (does UA bring it back?)
-YYZ (Canadian border closed)

To look at it another way, here's what's still out if you exclude those confirmed to be restarting and YYZ, which has shown up on OAG a few times only to disappear due to COVID restrictions:
-Likely to come back- JFK
-Possible- LAX, SFO
-Hard to tell- MSY (might be helped with two carriers on it and NK's continued seasonal operation), JAX (probably easy enough for G4 to operate), PUJ, RDU
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1528
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:26 pm

Delta28L wrote:
flyinryan99 wrote:
Some news out of TOL.

January Pax Stats were down 52% January 2021 over January 2020
Allegiant Air: 5,647 (9,563)
American Airlines operated by American Eagle: 3,579 (9,732)
Total Passengers: 9,226 (19,295)

Finally found the logistics company that will be handling around 14 weekly cargo flights out of TOL: Pinnacle Logistics https://www.pinnaclelogistics.com/ They are in the process of hiring the Toledo team now...just wondering who they will be handling now. Anyone have any insight?


They do/did a lot of work for amazon air


I confirmed later on in the day yesterday that it will be Amazon operated by Sun Country 737-800Fs - at least that was who the leases names they are in.
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