Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 13
 
User avatar
AirportRival
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:24 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:31 pm

The finalized Master Plan for CVG has been posted.
https://www.airportprojects.net/cvg-mpu ... documents/

Overall, I don't hate it. Obviously we'd have to see a huge increase in passengers to get to the PAL 4 stage but I like what it could look like.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:23 pm

DL has suspended CMH-SLC way out through August. It still appears on the DL route map so I suppose it will return eventually, but not short term. By contrast, JFK on DL and SFO on UA continue to be suspended on a month-to-month basis.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:07 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
DL has suspended CMH-SLC way out through August. It still appears on the DL route map so I suppose it will return eventually, but not short term. By contrast, JFK on DL and SFO on UA continue to be suspended on a month-to-month basis.


That's such a shame. I was really hoping for CMH-SLC to come back to take advantage of the anticipated increase in demand to mountain destinations this summer. Bummer.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4874
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:25 pm

While F9 had previously avoided adding shorter-distance routes such as CVG-ORD, F9 adding CVG-ORD might be a possibility with F9 having recently added CVG-STL nonstop service and other recent adds that F9 has made.

Here were the load factors, number of seats, load factors, PDEW's, and approximate percentage of connecting passengers on MDW-CVG/STL in Q3 2020:
MDW-CVG - 28054 passengers, 67624 seats, 41.49% load factor, PDEW of 14, approx. 90.82% connecting
MDW-STL - 44528 passengers, 136997 seats, 32.50% load factor, PDEW of 35, approx. 92.77% connecting

Here were the PDEW's for ORD-CVG/STL in Q3 2020:
ORD-STL - 38
ORD-CVG - 43

I think that F9 will likely struggle to make STL-ORD nonstop service work, more so than it probably would on CVG-ORD, due to
(a) STL having weaker demand to ORD than CVG did in Q3 2020,
(b) WN still having more nonstop service to MDW from STL than from CVG,
(c) WN having a much bigger presence at STL than at CVG,
(d) WN having a much bigger FF base in the STL market than in the CVG market, and
(e) significantly weaker demand to CHI from Midwestern markets during the COVID-19 pandemic.

F9 also would have to fill more seats on CVG-ORD than WN or G4 would on CVG-MDW with 180-seat A320 planes being the smallest planes that F9 would be using on CVG-ORD whereas WN can use smaller 143-seat 737-700 planes and G4 can use smaller 156-seat A319 planes on CVG-MDW.

F9 might be more likely to be successful on CVG-ORD than on STL-ORD due to (a) CVG having a bigger F9 presence than STL, (b) CVG having slightly more demand to ORD than STL during the COVID-19 pandemic, and (c) WN having fewer nonstops to MDW from CVG than from STL. However, F9 would probably struggle to make CVG-ORD nonstop service work, at least while O&D demand to CHI from other Midwest cities is still weak, with CVG-CHI demand likely being below what would be needed to support F9 CVG-ORD nonstop service (even after taking into account the additional stimulation of O&D demand that would be there with an F9 CVG-ORD add).

G4 might be more likely to succeed on CVG-MDW than F9 would on CVG-ORD with MDW being closer to the Chicago Loop and with G4 being able to use smaller A319 planes with 156 seats on the CVG-MDW route.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:15 pm

DAY finally gets a nonstop link to MCO again and it's not who you'd think it would be:

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... ce=twitter
 
jplatts
Posts: 4874
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:29 pm

While CVG-DFW had long had nonstop competition prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, CVG-DFW currently doesn't have nonstop competition with both DL and F9 having suspended CVG-DFW nonstop service during the COVID-19 pandemic.

DL has also been off of CVG-DFW for over a year now due to the COVID-19 pandemic after having served DFW nonstop from CVG for decades prior to the pandemic.

The PDEW of CVG-DFW/DAL was 315 passengers/day in 2019, and an average of approximately 131 passengers/day in each direction were traveling between CVG and DFW/DAL on airlines other than AA in 2019.

CVG-DFW/DAL would certainly be able to support nonstop competition if demand were at pre-pandemic levels as
(a) CVG-DFW having continuously having nonstop competition for decades until the COVID-19 pandemic hit and
(b) there are only a few routes within the contiguous U.S. with stronger pre-pandemic O&D demand than CVG-DFW/DAL that have never had nonstop competition in recent years such as CLT-LAX and MKE-WAS.

I had also previously mentioned WN adding CVG-DAL nonstop service as a possibility, especially with fewer options between the CVG and DFW/DAL markets (including both nonstop options and 1-stop connecting options) than was the case prior to the pandemic.

While G4 doesn't currently serve the DFW/DAL market and while NK doesn't currently serve the CVG market, G4 or NK adding nonstop service to the DFW/DAL market from CVG are possibilities if G4 adds service to the DFW/DAL market or NK adds service to CVG.

DL is currently scheduled to resume CVG-DFW nonstop service on June 5th and F9 is currently scheduled to resume CVG-DFW nonstop service on June 11th, but there is a possibility of DL delaying the resumption of CVG-DFW nonstop service past June 5th or F9 delaying the resumption of CVG-DFW nonstop service past June 11th.

Are DL and F9 likely to further delay the resumption of CVG-DFW nonstop service or permanently discontinue CVG-DFW nonstop service, or are DL and F9 likely to resume DFW-CVG nonstop service on their currently scheduled dates in June 2021?
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1930
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:20 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
DL has suspended CMH-SLC way out through August. It still appears on the DL route map so I suppose it will return eventually, but not short term. By contrast, JFK on DL and SFO on UA continue to be suspended on a month-to-month basis.

Disappointing as CLE-SLC is currently scheduled to resume June 5.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:11 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
DL has suspended CMH-SLC way out through August. It still appears on the DL route map so I suppose it will return eventually, but not short term. By contrast, JFK on DL and SFO on UA continue to be suspended on a month-to-month basis.

Disappointing as CLE-SLC is currently scheduled to resume June 5.


CLE-LAX/SFO on UA is also slated to come back in June. CMH-SFO remains on hiatus UFN and CMH-DEN seems stuck on E75/CR7 also for the time being.

Definitely a shame that it's taking so long for these routes to come back. My guess is they were extremely business travel heavy and the leisure component just hasn't been enough to justify returning these flights. If they're not coming back this summer they're probably not going to return until 2022, if at all in some cases. I'm very thankful Alaska has maintained their CMH-SEA route throughout the pandemic, despite some pretty lackluster load factors recently. Hope they're making up for it in other metrics to keep the route viable.
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:01 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
DAY finally gets a nonstop link to MCO again and it's not who you'd think it would be:

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... ce=twitter


Very odd indeed. I would have thought Allegiant or perhaps Spirit.
 
bigred10k
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:35 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:03 pm

I doubt we see the return of CVG-DFW on Delta.

Delta has removed CVG as one of its focus cities. Its now just a spoke. https://viewfromthewing.com/delta-drops ... us-cities/

More generally, Delta seems to be abandoning its position in much of the midwest. The lack of service from SLC is a good indicator of that.

AA, in particular, seems to be picking up the market share being left by DL. Expanded mainline service on CVG-DFW is set to return in June.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4874
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:20 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
Very odd indeed. I would have thought Allegiant or perhaps Spirit.


G4 already has seasonal nonstop service to SFB in the MCO/SFB market from DAY, and NK doesn't currently serve the DAY market.

I had also mentioned in the Spirit Airlines Discussion Thread that CVG is one of the top remaining markets in the contiguous U.S. without NK service, but there is less of a need for NK service out of CVG with WN, SY, and F9 being to make adds such as CVG-DAL/RSW/LAS on WN, CVG-LAS on SY, and CVG-MYR/PNS on F9.

I had also previously mentioned the possibility of G4 adding DAY-FLL/SRQ/SAV nonstop service with G4 already serving FLL, SRQ, and SAV nonstop from other Midwestern cities.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4874
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:25 pm

flyCMH wrote:
CLE-LAX/SFO on UA is also slated to come back in June. CMH-SFO remains on hiatus UFN and CMH-DEN seems stuck on E75/CR7 also for the time being.

Definitely a shame that it's taking so long for these routes to come back. My guess is they were extremely business travel heavy and the leisure component just hasn't been enough to justify returning these flights. If they're not coming back this summer they're probably not going to return until 2022, if at all in some cases. I'm very thankful Alaska has maintained their CMH-SEA route throughout the pandemic, despite some pretty lackluster load factors recently. Hope they're making up for it in other metrics to keep the route viable.


There is still some leisure traffic to SEA from the contiguous U.S. cities that are served by AS with the tourist attractions that are there in Western Washington such as Pike Place Market, the Space Needle, Tillicum Village, Mount Rainier, Olympic Mountains, and Snoqualmie Falls. AS also still offers connections to Alaska, Hawaii, and smaller markets in Washington State from CMH through SEA, and there is some leisure travel to Alaska and Hawaii from the contiguous U.S.

AA still offers 1-stop connecting service to Hawaii from Ohio through its ORD, DFW, and PHX hubs, DL still offers 1-stop connecting service to ANC and HNL from Ohio through its MSP hub, and UA still offers 1-stop connecting service to Alaska and Hawaii from Ohio through its DEN along with 1-stop connecting service to HNL from Ohio through its ORD and IAH hubs. There is less of a need for the US3 carriers to resume nonstop service to their West Coast hubs from Ohio with the 1-stop connecting options that still there to the Western U.S. from Ohio through hubs east of SLC.

I had also previously mentioned the possibility of UA re-adding CVG-SFO nonstop service with
(a) CVG-SFO having had strong demand prior to UA and F9 dropping CVG-SFO nonstop service,
(b) DL having suspended CVG-SFO nonstop service through at least June 5th,
(c) the possibility of a competitor other than DL such as F9, AS, G4, or WN adding nonstop service to the San Francisco Bay Area from CVG if UA doesn't re-add CVG-SFO nonstop service,
(d) UA having some FF's in the San Francisco Bay Area with MileagePlus elite status who would avoid other airlines such as DL, AA, AS, WN, or F9 whenever possible,
(e) UA having nonstop service out of CVG to a few destinations that DL no longer serves nonstop from CVG such as IAH, IAD, CHS, PNS, and PWM, and
(f) connecting opportunities available to Hawaii, Asia, Australia, New Zealand, and Tahiti through SFO on UA (even though some of the UA/CA/NZ TPAC flights out of SFO are still suspended as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic).
 
jplatts
Posts: 4874
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:31 pm

bigred10k wrote:
I doubt we see the return of CVG-DFW on Delta.

AA, in particular, seems to be picking up the market share being left by DL. Expanded mainline service on CVG-DFW is set to return in June.


I agree that DL permanently dropping CVG-DFW nonstop service is a possibility, especially with WN being able to add CVG-DAL nonstop service once demand recovers.

If DL does permanently discontinue CVG-DFW nonstop service, CVG can likely support nonstop service to DAL on WN in addition to nonstop service to DFW on AA once demand recovers with
(a) CVG-DFW/DAL being one of the top routes within the contiguous U.S. without nonstop competition,
(b) a significant amount of the demand to the DFW/DAL market from CVG being on airlines other than AA prior to the COVID-19 pandemic,
(c) AA being weaker in the CVG market than in most of the similarly-sized markets in the contiguous U.S.,
(d) WN already having a significant FF base in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Vegas, and Southern California to support CVG-DAL nonstop service on WN,
(e) fewer options to the DFW/DAL market from CVG (including both nonstop options and 1-stop connecting options) than was the case prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, and
(f) WN being able to more easily fill DAL-CVG nonstop flights with the connections that WN would be offering through DAL whereas DL is more reliant on O&D to make DFW-CVG nonstop service work.

I would also very likely expect CVG to have nonstop service to the DFW/DAL market on more than just AA once demand recovers, even if DL permanently discontinues DFW-CVG nonstop service, with the amount of demand that was there to the DFW/DAL market from CVG prior to the COVID-19 pandemic and the longstanding nonstop competition that was previously there on the DFW-CVG route.

DL permanently dropping CVG-SFO nonstop service is a possibility for similar reasons, especially with other airlines such as UA, F9, AS, G4, or WN being able to add nonstop service to SFO/OAK from CVG once demand recovers.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4874
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:13 pm

Updates on DL flight suspensions out of CVG:
CVG-ORD/DFW/SFO suspended through at least 8/5/2021
CVG-BWI/PHL/RDU suspended through at least 9/7/2021
 
User avatar
AirportRival
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:24 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:00 am

For some additional reference:
Delta in CVG on 06/07/21

ATL - 6x B738, 1x B739
BOS - 2x CR9
DCA - 2x CR7
DEN - 1x B739
DTW - 2x CR7, 3x CR9
EWR - 2x CR9
FLL - 2x A320
JFK - 1x CR9
LAS - 1x B739
LAX - 1x A321
LGA - 3x CR9
MCO - 1x B738, 1x B739
MSP - 3x CR7, 1x CR9
RSW - 2x B738
SEA - 1x B739
SLC - 1x B738, 1x B739
TPA - 2x B738

21 Mainline
19 Regional
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:31 pm

That's still enough to be considered some form of a Focus City despite what DL officially says.

Using the same day for comparison:

CMH:
-ATL- 4 739, 3 738
-BOS- 2 E75
-DTW- 4 E75, 1 CR9
-LGA- 3 E75
-MSP- 1 320, 3 CR9 (mainline returns)

DAY:
-ATL- 5 CR9
-DTW- 4 CRJ
-MSP- 1 CRJ (returns)
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:10 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
That's still enough to be considered some form of a Focus City despite what DL officially says.

Using the same day for comparison:

CMH:
-ATL- 4 739, 3 738
-BOS- 2 E75
-DTW- 4 E75, 1 CR9
-LGA- 3 E75
-MSP- 1 320, 3 CR9 (mainline returns)

DAY:
-ATL- 5 CR9
-DTW- 4 CRJ
-MSP- 1 CRJ (returns)


Totally agreed. CVG has an incredibly impressive lineup of service from Delta all things considered. Thanks also for putting together the anticipated flights and aircraft types for CMH and DAY for June. It looks like AA also has updated their schedules for June and, comparing peer cities, is being the most aggressive in adding back service cut since last year. CMH is slated to receive the following in June:

CLT - 1 320, 1 319, 3 E75, 1 CR9
DCA - 2x E75, 1x CR9
DFW - 2x 738, 1x 319, 1x E75
LGA - 2x E75, 1x E70
MIA - 2x E75
ORD - 5x E75, 1x ER4
PHL - 4x E75
PHX - 1x 738, 1x 319

TOTAL: 32 peak daily flights (7 mainline, only 1 50-seater)

United, despite the seasonal additions to PWM, HHH, and CHS, remains with quite the pitiful schedule from CMH:

DEN - 2x E75
EWR - 1x E70, 1x 550
IAD - 1x E75, 1x E45
IAH - 3x E75
ORD - 2x E70, 2x 550, 1x CR7

PWM - 4x weekly (Mon/Thu/Fri/Sat) 550
CHS - 3x weekly (Wed/Fri/Sun) 550
HHH - 3x weekly (Mon/Thu/Sat) 550

TOTAL: 16 peak daily flights (no mainline)
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:00 pm

flyCMH wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
That's still enough to be considered some form of a Focus City despite what DL officially says.

Using the same day for comparison:

CMH:
-ATL- 4 739, 3 738
-BOS- 2 E75
-DTW- 4 E75, 1 CR9
-LGA- 3 E75
-MSP- 1 320, 3 CR9 (mainline returns)

DAY:
-ATL- 5 CR9
-DTW- 4 CRJ
-MSP- 1 CRJ (returns)


Totally agreed. CVG has an incredibly impressive lineup of service from Delta all things considered. Thanks also for putting together the anticipated flights and aircraft types for CMH and DAY for June. It looks like AA also has updated their schedules for June and, comparing peer cities, is being the most aggressive in adding back service cut since last year. CMH is slated to receive the following in June:

CLT - 1 320, 1 319, 3 E75, 1 CR9
DCA - 2x E75, 1x CR9
DFW - 2x 738, 1x 319, 1x E75
LGA - 2x E75, 1x E70
MIA - 2x E75
ORD - 5x E75, 1x ER4
PHL - 4x E75
PHX - 1x 738, 1x 319

TOTAL: 32 peak daily flights (7 mainline, only 1 50-seater)

United, despite the seasonal additions to PWM, HHH, and CHS, remains with quite the pitiful schedule from CMH:

DEN - 2x E75
EWR - 1x E70, 1x 550
IAD - 1x E75, 1x E45
IAH - 3x E75
ORD - 2x E70, 2x 550, 1x CR7

PWM - 4x weekly (Mon/Thu/Fri/Sat) 550
CHS - 3x weekly (Wed/Fri/Sun) 550
HHH - 3x weekly (Mon/Thu/Sat) 550

TOTAL: 16 peak daily flights (no mainline)


Theoretically, DL should still have at least a few connecting options via CVG with that schedule. On a related note, I was shopping for DEN-MCO itineraries for a cousin this week and saw WN is selling connections through CMH. I'm sure they've been doing that for a while, but this was the first time I was in a position to see it myself.

Thanks for looking up the numbers for the other legacies at CMH. That has to be the first time there have been multiple mainlines a day to CLT since the mid-2000s.

To finish DAY:
AA:
-CLT - 3x CR9, 3x CR7
-DCA - 1x CR9, 1x CR7
-DFW - 1x CR9, 2x CR7
-LGA - Suspended
-ORD - 1x E75, 2x ERJ
-PHL - 1x CR7, 2x ERJ

-MIA - weekly ERJ
-MCO - weekly E75

UA:
-DEN - Suspended
-IAD - 1x CRJ, 1x ERJ
-ORD - 6x CRJ
 
User avatar
AirportRival
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:24 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:55 am

Keeping with the trend. Here's the rest of the legacies in CVG.

Alaska
SEA - 1x B739

American
This will be the most mainline I'll ever have seen AA fly through CVG. I've never seen it from CLT. LGA and JFK remain suspended.
CLT - 1x A319, 3x CR7, 2x E175
DCA - 2x E175
DFW - 2x A319, 2x B738, 1x E175
MIA - 2x E175
ORD - 1x CR7, 2x E145, 3x E175
PHL - 1x CR7, 2x CR9, 2x E145

United
Nice to see UA mainline come back
CHS - 3x weekly CR5
DEN - 1x A319, 1x E175
EWR - 2x CR5
HHH - 3x weekly CR5
IAD - 2x CRJ
IAH - 1x A319, 2x E175
ORD - 3x CR5, 1x E175
PNS - 3x weekly CR5
PWM - 3x weekly CR5
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:41 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
DL has suspended CMH-SLC way out through August. It still appears on the DL route map so I suppose it will return eventually, but not short term. By contrast, JFK on DL and SFO on UA continue to be suspended on a month-to-month basis.

Disappointing as CLE-SLC is currently scheduled to resume June 5.


Looks like the schedulers were just a week or so behind, DL CLE-SLC is now also suspended for June and July.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1930
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:29 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
DL has suspended CMH-SLC way out through August. It still appears on the DL route map so I suppose it will return eventually, but not short term. By contrast, JFK on DL and SFO on UA continue to be suspended on a month-to-month basis.

Disappointing as CLE-SLC is currently scheduled to resume June 5.


Looks like the schedulers were just a week or so behind, DL CLE-SLC is now also suspended for June and July.

That's disappointing too. I doubt we will see either one resume this year.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4874
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:26 pm

AA has announced plans to serve CVG nonstop from BOS according to an announcement at https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2021/American-Airlines-Uses-Partnerships-to-Grow-Its-Network-Offer-Customers-More-Choice-and-Provide-a-Premier-Travel-Experience-in-the-Northeast-NET-ALP-04/default.aspx.

With the AA CVG-BOS, AS CVG-SEA, and SY CVG-MSP adds and the discontinuation of DL CVG-BDL/MCI/STL nonstop service, there are very few DL nonstop routes out of CVG remaining that do not have nonstop competition such as CVG-DTW/RDU/SLC/SFO.

I would probably expect an airline other than DL to add nonstop service to the San Francisco Bay Area from CVG once demand recovers since the demand between CVG and the San Francisco Bay Area exceeded the capacity available on DL CVG-SFO nonstop flights in Summer 2019.

There are also some more adds that could be made by both AA and AS out of CVG to the West Coast to further strengthen their presence in the CVG market such as CVG-LAX on AA and CVG-LAX/PDX/SFO on AS.
 
a320flyer
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:35 pm

Even more interesting is:

Customers in rapidly growing cities and key business markets such as Austin; Nashville; Raleigh, North Carolina; Columbus, Ohio; Cleveland; Cincinnati;


I would really like to see them add LAX with DL down to 1x/day now.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:19 pm

a320flyer wrote:
Even more interesting is:

Customers in rapidly growing cities and key business markets such as Austin; Nashville; Raleigh, North Carolina; Columbus, Ohio; Cleveland; Cincinnati;


I would really like to see them add LAX with DL down to 1x/day now.


I thought that was interesting too. AA has definitely been more brazen in restoring and adding service in the above-mentioned markets and will be the leader of the Big 3 in at least CMH and IND and I believe AUS and BNA. It appears that, at least initially, it'll be American/American Eagle doing the flying into our local markets rather than B6. Though as their Northeast Alliance expands and JFK service returns, it could come back in the form of B6 to CLE/CMH/CVG/IND/etc. Hopefully LAX service is restored/added to these "key business markets" as well, in the form of either AA or B6 would be great.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:25 pm

a320flyer wrote:
Even more interesting is:

Customers in rapidly growing cities and key business markets such as Austin; Nashville; Raleigh, North Carolina; Columbus, Ohio; Cleveland; Cincinnati;


I would really like to see them add LAX with DL down to 1x/day now.


Wouldn’t count on it, since CMH is also specifically mentioned as a “key business market” in this release (odd given that it doesn’t include anything for us) and they recently cut our LAX nonstop despite no competition at the time (and while also starting up BOS in August).

However, with AS operating SEA only at CMH and starting the same route soon at CVG, I’m wondering if they are leaving the door open for AS to begin LAX flights from both airports in the near future with AA numbers tacked on?
 
a320flyer
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:22 pm

Looks like the CVG-BOS service is 3x a day on the E175, starting November 2, 2021. Quite impressive capacity for a route DL has never had to compete on. Will be interesting to see how they respond given they plan on operating 5x B717. Seems like a lot of seats to fill…
 
jplatts
Posts: 4874
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:16 pm

a320flyer wrote:
Looks like the CVG-BOS service is 3x a day on the E175, starting November 2, 2021. Quite impressive capacity for a route DL has never had to compete on. Will be interesting to see how they respond given they plan on operating 5x B717. Seems like a lot of seats to fill…


It is hard to say if DL would increase capacity on CVG-BOS nonstop service in response to AA adding CVG-BOS nonstop service with DL having already dropped CVG-CLT nonstop service and DL continuing to suspend CVG-ORD/DFW/PHL nonstop service. However, there are still some non-DL hub domestic destinations other than CVG that DL currently is serving nonstop from BOS such as AUS, CHS, CLE, FLL, RSW, LAS, MIA, BNA, MCO, PIT, RDU, RIC, and TPA.

Another big difference is that DL doesn't have hubs at CLT, ORD, DFW, or PHL, and DL is also currently serving only some of its hubs nonstop from CLT, ORD, DFW, and PHL.

There are also some DL FF's in both the CVG and BOS markets with SkyMiles Medallion elite status who would avoid other airlines such as AA, B6, UA, WN, F9, or G4 whenever possible and who would continue to choose DL over other airlines regardless of any capacity increases or capacity decreases made by DL on CVG-BOS nonstop service.

DL is also still currently down to 2x daily on CVG-BOS in June 2021 from the 5x daily that DL was operating on CVG-BOS prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:34 pm

flyCMH wrote:
a320flyer wrote:
Even more interesting is:

Customers in rapidly growing cities and key business markets such as Austin; Nashville; Raleigh, North Carolina; Columbus, Ohio; Cleveland; Cincinnati;


I would really like to see them add LAX with DL down to 1x/day now.


I thought that was interesting too. AA has definitely been more brazen in restoring and adding service in the above-mentioned markets and will be the leader of the Big 3 in at least CMH and IND and I believe AUS and BNA. It appears that, at least initially, it'll be American/American Eagle doing the flying into our local markets rather than B6. Though as their Northeast Alliance expands and JFK service returns, it could come back in the form of B6 to CLE/CMH/CVG/IND/etc. Hopefully LAX service is restored/added to these "key business markets" as well, in the form of either AA or B6 would be great.


Maybe the specific naming of CMH/CLE/CVG may be their attempt to stake a bigger claim in those markets.

If nothing else, B6 just remembered the middle part of the country exists and added MCI and MKE. Problem is, they didn't add any airports in this thread or to neighboring states.
 
CVGspottekass
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:26 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:17 pm

Is swift air still going to do flights to MBJ from CLE and CVG? They were removed from the Vacation Express website. I find it strange that they were removed a few weeks back since summer is approaching soon. They were supposed to begin late May.
 
N292UX
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:01 pm

I doubt DL is going to have a massive response to AA adding CVG-BOS, probably will return to pre-covid in terms of capacity. I think DL responding by adding CVG-MIA/AUS down the road is more likely than a massive increase in capacity on CVG-BOS.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:59 pm

Some news on the LCK front:

https://report.az/en/infrastructure/sil ... s-to-ohio/

Trinity Logistics has amassed quite the roster of cargo airlines to ship textile goods into LCK.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:31 pm

Flying out of CMH tonight I was surprised to learn (due to a hold for connections) that there were 29 passengers routed DAL-CMH-MDW. I knew there were some connections sold through CMH but that number surprised me. Nice to catch a MAX flight as a bonus too!
 
jplatts
Posts: 4874
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:12 am

CMHtraveler wrote:
However, with AS operating SEA only at CMH and starting the same route soon at CVG, I’m wondering if they are leaving the door open for AS to begin LAX flights from both airports in the near future with AA numbers tacked on?


AA is more likely to re-add CMH-LAX nonstop service and add CVG-LAX nonstop service than AS is to add CMH/CVG-LAX nonstop service since most of the AS nonstop routes out of LAX are to AS hubs, Western U.S. destinations, Western Mexico destinations, former VX destinations, or Florida whereas AA has nonstop service out of LAX to IND, OMA, and STL in the Midwest in addition to its ORD hub.
 
User avatar
Citrus1492
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:36 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:56 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
Flying out of CMH tonight I was surprised to learn (due to a hold for connections) that there were 29 passengers routed DAL-CMH-MDW. I knew there were some connections sold through CMH but that number surprised me. Nice to catch a MAX flight as a bonus too!

CMH has been a connection point for WN since the res system change, like 2015. It's a huge pita as the inbounds are always late, especially after 1600. The pencil pushers in Dallas never saw the chaos created when you schedule 7 turns in an hour, pax and bags trying to connect, and you only have 5 jetways. Throw in a couple diversions, mechanicals, or cancellations, everyone gets schlonged.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:13 pm

Citrus1492 wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
Flying out of CMH tonight I was surprised to learn (due to a hold for connections) that there were 29 passengers routed DAL-CMH-MDW. I knew there were some connections sold through CMH but that number surprised me. Nice to catch a MAX flight as a bonus too!

CMH has been a connection point for WN since the res system change, like 2015. It's a huge pita as the inbounds are always late, especially after 1600. The pencil pushers in Dallas never saw the chaos created when you schedule 7 turns in an hour, pax and bags trying to connect, and you only have 5 jetways. Throw in a couple diversions, mechanicals, or cancellations, everyone gets schlonged.


I found DEN-CMH-MCO on offer a couple weeks ago for a cousin wanting to go to Florida this summer. Given your anecdote about connections, it makes me wonder why they haven't hooked a jetway back up to A1 to give them extra real estate.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4874
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:02 pm

Dayton International Airport wants nonstop service added to BOS from DAY, according to articles in the Springfield News Sun and Dayton Daily News that can be found at https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/business/decreasing-passenger-traffic-causing-lower-bond-rating-for-airport/1oCVfS0gC5XSf3EqGEZmkK/ and https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-airport-wants-to-stop-passenger-leakage-here-are-its-fly-local-plans/VTBGFJYJCJHBNC6E3WHFDIATQM/.

The Springfield News Sun article which I linked above stated that there was some leakage onto CMH-BOS nonstop flights from Greater Dayton, but WN has already dropped CMH-BOS nonstop service.

AA adding DAY-BOS nonstop service is a possibility with AA having recently added nonstop service to BOS from surrounding markets such as CVG, CMH, and IND. There are also some domestic destinations such as AVL, CLT, DFW, MDT, JAC, EYW, PHX, ROC, STL, SYR, and ILM that have current or already announced nonstop service out of BOS on AA but no nonstop service out BOS on DL.

DL adding DAY-BOS nonstop service might also be a possibility with DL having plans to start or resume nonstop service to BOS from a few domestic destinations that don't have nonstop service to BOS on AA or B6 such as BGR, MEM, and ORF.

Is AA or DL likely to add DAY-BOS nonstop service anytime soon? Who is most likely to add DAY-BOS nonstop service?
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:54 pm

In raising WN dropping CMH-BOS, you missed AA is adding it to replace them so, between that and DL, there will still be ample service between the two.

As for DAY, pre-COVID, DL would've made the most sense, but AA is bulking up BOS and just added weekly DAY-MCO, which is completely point-to-point, so anything is possible at this point and they're a reasonable guess.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4874
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:51 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
In raising WN dropping CMH-BOS, you missed AA is adding it to replace them so, between that and DL, there will still be ample service between the two.


Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors on WN CMH-BOS nonstop flights in the January 2019 - February 2020 time period:
1/2019 - 3805 passengers, 8349 seats, 45.57% load factor
2/2019 - 4255 passengers, 7826 seats, 54.37% load factor
3/2019 - 4948 passengers, 7056 seats, 70.12% load factor
4/2019 - 8537 passengers, 14372 seats, 59.40% load factor
5/2019 - 10835 passengers, 16869 seats, 64.23% load factor
6/2019 - 9388 passengers, 15132 seats, 62.04% load factor
7/2019 - 10762 passengers, 15322 seats, 70.24% load factor
8/2019 - 12261 passengers, 16086 seats, 76.22% load factor
9/2019 - 6922 passengers, 9538 seats, 72.57% load factor
10/2019 - 11801 passengers, 16594 seats, 71.12% load factor
11/2019 - 5815 passengers, 11369 seats, 51.15% load factor
12/2019 - 6813 passengers, 11512 seats, 59.18% load factor
1/2020 - 3892 passengers, 7632 seats, 51.00% load factor
2/2020 - 4007 passengers, 6360 seats, 63.00% load factor
1/2019 through 2/2020 - 104041 passengers, 164017 seats, 63.43% load factor

I can understand why WN dropped CMH-BOS nonstop service as load factors were weaker on WN CMH-BOS than on most of the other WN nonstop routes prior to the COVID-19 pandemic and as demand is even weaker for WN CMH-BOS nonstop service than was the case prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

AA (as of the current AA flight schedule) currently has slightly more capacity on CMH-BOS nonstop service in Q1 2022 than WN did on CMH-BOS nonstop service in Q1 2019, but AA is targeting the FF base that AA and B6 have in Greater Boston and the FF base that AA has in Greater Columbus with the CMH-BOS add. Some of the AA FF's traveling between CMH and BOS also preferred to connect on AA over flying nonstop between CMH and BOS on DL or WN.

I am unsure if AA will do better on the CMH-BOS route in 2022 than WN did in 2019, but AA is adding CMH-BOS nonstop service (even if the performance on AA CMH-BOS nonstop service ends up being worse than the performance of WN CMH-BOS nonstop service pre-pandemic) to remain relevant to the AA and B6 frequent flyer base and to remain competitive against DL in the BOS market. AA will be capturing some traffic on CMH-BOS that DL or WN weren't able to capture on their CMH-BOS nonstop flights.

Is AA likely to do better on CMH-BOS nonstop service than WN did on CMH-BOS nonstop service in the 1/2019 - 2/2020 time period?
 
User avatar
AirportRival
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:24 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:50 am

Looks like Southwest is adding Saturday only service from CVG to SRQ and RSW in June. I'm still looking for anything else
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:18 am

AirportRival wrote:
Looks like Southwest is adding Saturday only service from CVG to SRQ and RSW in June. I'm still looking for anything else


CMH-MIA per Midwestindy.

Maybe AA will finally throw mainline on the route now?
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1930
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:26 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
AirportRival wrote:
Looks like Southwest is adding Saturday only service from CVG to SRQ and RSW in June. I'm still looking for anything else


CMH-MIA per Midwestindy.

Maybe AA will finally throw mainline on the route now?

Was CMH-MYR previously announced? Because it looks like that starts in June.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:38 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
AirportRival wrote:
Looks like Southwest is adding Saturday only service from CVG to SRQ and RSW in June. I'm still looking for anything else


CMH-MIA per Midwestindy.

Maybe AA will finally throw mainline on the route now?

Was CMH-MYR previously announced? Because it looks like that starts in June.


Yes CMH-MYR was announced in March. I think it was during that wild couple of weeks when both NK and UA announced a bunch of new adds so understandable if you missed it!

As for mainline on AA CMH-MIA, I remember way back to 2019 when we were constantly complaining about ERJs on the route, so the fact that it goes all E75 next month is a big win in my book. Plus we get mainline back on 3/4 DFW flights, 2x PHX, and 2x CLT which is a big increase. Regarding MIA I wonder if the new WN flights will be Saturday only or more frequent and whether they will be seasonal or year round? Seems like a lot of seats to fill on WN’s part especially competing with AA’s hub.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1930
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:15 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:

CMH-MIA per Midwestindy.

Maybe AA will finally throw mainline on the route now?

Was CMH-MYR previously announced? Because it looks like that starts in June.


Yes CMH-MYR was announced in March. I think it was during that wild couple of weeks when both NK and UA announced a bunch of new adds so understandable if you missed it!

As for mainline on AA CMH-MIA, I remember way back to 2019 when we were constantly complaining about ERJs on the route, so the fact that it goes all E75 next month is a big win in my book. Plus we get mainline back on 3/4 DFW flights, 2x PHX, and 2x CLT which is a big increase. Regarding MIA I wonder if the new WN flights will be Saturday only or more frequent and whether they will be seasonal or year round? Seems like a lot of seats to fill on WN’s part especially competing with AA’s hub.

Yes, I definitely missed it. So there are going to be 3 flights per day this summer from Columbus to Myrtle Beach? That seems insane!
 
CMHARJ
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:28 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:35 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
AirportRival wrote:
Looks like Southwest is adding Saturday only service from CVG to SRQ and RSW in June. I'm still looking for anything else


CMH-MIA per Midwestindy.

Maybe AA will finally throw mainline on the route now?


When is WN CMH-MIA tentatively suppose to start? I'm surprised they're flying this from CMH, especially with WN having a focus city in FLL. All of MIA flying is strictly to the hubs
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:45 pm

CMHARJ wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
AirportRival wrote:
Looks like Southwest is adding Saturday only service from CVG to SRQ and RSW in June. I'm still looking for anything else


CMH-MIA per Midwestindy.

Maybe AA will finally throw mainline on the route now?


When is WN CMH-MIA tentatively suppose to start? I'm surprised they're flying this from CMH, especially with WN having a focus city in FLL. All of MIA flying is strictly to the hubs


First I found was June 12th.
 
a320flyer
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:38 pm

CVG-TPA/MCO are also showing up as 2x/day on Saturdays for WN

Of note, it's been loaded for a while, but G4 still has up to 4x/day loaded on CVG-VPS!
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:33 pm

CRAA April Minutes are out: https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 7-2021.pdf

Perhaps the most interesting thing in the packet:
RESOLUTION #20-21 of the Columbus Regional Airport Authority authorizing the President & CEO to negotiate and enter into a concessions agreement with MAG US Lounge Management, LLC for a common-use lounge in concourse B at John Glenn Columbus International Airport for a term of up to eight years.

...The Columbus Regional Airport Authority (CRAA) is currently in negotiations with MAG USA to develop, construct, and operate a common-use lounge in approximately 2,800 square feet in Concourse B...
 
atbPy
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:58 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
CRAA April Minutes are out: https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 7-2021.pdf

Perhaps the most interesting thing in the packet:
RESOLUTION #20-21 of the Columbus Regional Airport Authority authorizing the President & CEO to negotiate and enter into a concessions agreement with MAG US Lounge Management, LLC for a common-use lounge in concourse B at John Glenn Columbus International Airport for a term of up to eight years.

...The Columbus Regional Airport Authority (CRAA) is currently in negotiations with MAG USA to develop, construct, and operate a common-use lounge in approximately 2,800 square feet in Concourse B...


That will be awesome. I wonder where they will put it though?
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:51 am

atbPy wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
CRAA April Minutes are out: https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 7-2021.pdf

Perhaps the most interesting thing in the packet:
RESOLUTION #20-21 of the Columbus Regional Airport Authority authorizing the President & CEO to negotiate and enter into a concessions agreement with MAG US Lounge Management, LLC for a common-use lounge in concourse B at John Glenn Columbus International Airport for a term of up to eight years.

...The Columbus Regional Airport Authority (CRAA) is currently in negotiations with MAG USA to develop, construct, and operate a common-use lounge in approximately 2,800 square feet in Concourse B...


That will be awesome. I wonder where they will put it though?


Great catch DeltaRules and an interesting development for sure! Isn’t there a second floor lounge space that is currently unoccupied somewhere? Is that in B?

According to the company’s website they have one in CVG- have any of our CVG posters in this thread used it and have a review for us?
 
zach170
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:58 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:28 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
atbPy wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
CRAA April Minutes are out: https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 7-2021.pdf

Perhaps the most interesting thing in the packet:


That will be awesome. I wonder where they will put it though?


Great catch DeltaRules and an interesting development for sure! Isn’t there a second floor lounge space that is currently unoccupied somewhere? Is that in B?

According to the company’s website they have one in CVG- have any of our CVG posters in this thread used it and have a review for us?


Hi everyone, longtime lurker, first time poster. I have been to that lounge a few times and it was very good. Salmon and sweet potatoes were top notch! Small place, but good quality
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 13

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos