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miaami
Posts: 971
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:27 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:01 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
CRAA April Minutes are out: https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 7-2021.pdf

Perhaps the most interesting thing in the packet:
RESOLUTION #20-21 of the Columbus Regional Airport Authority authorizing the President & CEO to negotiate and enter into a concessions agreement with MAG US Lounge Management, LLC for a common-use lounge in concourse B at John Glenn Columbus International Airport for a term of up to eight years.

...The Columbus Regional Airport Authority (CRAA) is currently in negotiations with MAG USA to develop, construct, and operate a common-use lounge in approximately 2,800 square feet in Concourse B...


Is that the where the old TWA Ambassadors Club used to be?
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2372
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:49 am

miaami wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
CRAA April Minutes are out: https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 7-2021.pdf

Perhaps the most interesting thing in the packet:
RESOLUTION #20-21 of the Columbus Regional Airport Authority authorizing the President & CEO to negotiate and enter into a concessions agreement with MAG US Lounge Management, LLC for a common-use lounge in concourse B at John Glenn Columbus International Airport for a term of up to eight years.

...The Columbus Regional Airport Authority (CRAA) is currently in negotiations with MAG USA to develop, construct, and operate a common-use lounge in approximately 2,800 square feet in Concourse B...


Is that the where the old TWA Ambassadors Club used to be?


I think that space is taken by Eddie George's Grille 27 and the Massage Bar, though the latter is no longer listed as a concession on flycolumbus.com. Maybe they do plan on reusing that space along with whatever space is there between Eddie George's and Starbucks as a lounge. Otherwise I'm having a tough time trying to figure out where they're going to put 2,800 sq. ft. of lounge space in Concourse B, unless they use some of the former airline space on the 1st floor.

Regardless, it's about time CMH worked to put in a common-use lounge in the terminal. Back when I worked there over 10 years ago, many passengers I checked in would ask about lounges. Concourse B makes the most sense for the location, since half of all passengers pass through the concourse and it contains 2 of the US3 and Air Canada. Looking forward to seeing and hearing more about the planned lounge.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:16 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
AirportRival wrote:
Looks like Southwest is adding Saturday only service from CVG to SRQ and RSW in June. I'm still looking for anything else


CMH-MIA per Midwestindy.

Maybe AA will finally throw mainline on the route now?


ECP also added
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
CMHtraveler
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:28 pm

zach170 wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
atbPy wrote:

That will be awesome. I wonder where they will put it though?


Great catch DeltaRules and an interesting development for sure! Isn’t there a second floor lounge space that is currently unoccupied somewhere? Is that in B?

According to the company’s website they have one in CVG- have any of our CVG posters in this thread used it and have a review for us?


Hi everyone, longtime lurker, first time poster. I have been to that lounge a few times and it was very good. Salmon and sweet potatoes were top notch! Small place, but good quality


Welcome! As a former lurker myself, it’s hard to stop once you’ve started posting so hopefully you’ll stick around. Also, thanks for the review. Do you mind sharing how access works? Is it completely independent or do some airlines offer access as part of their status programs?

Midwestindy wrote:
ECP also added


Wow. How many Florida flights can CMH possibly sustain? I guess we’re going to find out until business travel recovers.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5379
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:46 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
zach170 wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:

Great catch DeltaRules and an interesting development for sure! Isn’t there a second floor lounge space that is currently unoccupied somewhere? Is that in B?

According to the company’s website they have one in CVG- have any of our CVG posters in this thread used it and have a review for us?


Hi everyone, longtime lurker, first time poster. I have been to that lounge a few times and it was very good. Salmon and sweet potatoes were top notch! Small place, but good quality


Welcome! As a former lurker myself, it’s hard to stop once you’ve started posting so hopefully you’ll stick around. Also, thanks for the review. Do you mind sharing how access works? Is it completely independent or do some airlines offer access as part of their status programs?


I'd be willing to bet it's at least partially tied into Priority Pass (which it seems all the travel vloggers on YT have and are more than willing to namedrop).
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
zach170
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:58 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:07 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
zach170 wrote:

Hi everyone, longtime lurker, first time poster. I have been to that lounge a few times and it was very good. Salmon and sweet potatoes were top notch! Small place, but good quality


Welcome! As a former lurker myself, it’s hard to stop once you’ve started posting so hopefully you’ll stick around. Also, thanks for the review. Do you mind sharing how access works? Is it completely independent or do some airlines offer access as part of their status programs?


I'd be willing to bet it's at least partially tied into Priority Pass (which it seems all the travel vloggers on YT have and are more than willing to namedrop).


Thanks for the welcome @CMHtraveler! It has been a long while since I visited, but if I remember correctly, it was not Priority Pass, but was via the Amex Platinum card since it is an "Escape Lounge". The Priority Pass does get you access to "The Club" in Concourse A
 
jplatts
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 8:12 pm

AS is going to be starting SEA-CVG nonstop service on May 20th.

Does anyone know what gate AS will be operating out of at CVG starting on May 20th?
 
jbmitt
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:59 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 9:57 pm

[list=][/list]
jplatts wrote:
AS is going to be starting SEA-CVG nonstop service on May 20th.

Does anyone know what gate AS will be operating out of at CVG starting on May 20th?


Presumably on B with AA?
 
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AirportRival
Posts: 442
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 12:48 am

jbmitt wrote:
[list=][/list]
jplatts wrote:
AS is going to be starting SEA-CVG nonstop service on May 20th.

Does anyone know what gate AS will be operating out of at CVG starting on May 20th?


Presumably on B with AA?


I don't know about the gates yet but I know that Trego-Dugan will be handling Sun Country while Menzies will be handling Alaska
Check out CVG's daily flight schedule https://sites.google.com/view/through-the-terminal
 
CVGspottekass
Posts: 18
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 1:52 pm

jbmitt wrote:
[list=][/list]
jplatts wrote:
AS is going to be starting SEA-CVG nonstop service on May 20th.

Does anyone know what gate AS will be operating out of at CVG starting on May 20th?


Presumably on B with AA?




I recall seeing a sign by Concourse A once you get off the train that said Alaska on it so they will likely fly out of Concourse A.
 
ContnlEliteCMH
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 2:50 pm

DeltaRules wrote:


I see that the CRAA is still intent on the midfield terminal. I'm sure we'll all love using it, but I still think it's a huge waste.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 4:40 pm

ContnlEliteCMH wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:


I see that the CRAA is still intent on the midfield terminal. I'm sure we'll all love using it, but I still think it's a huge waste.


I thought that project was “back-burnered” at the moment (although obviously related projects like the CONRAC facility have continued)?

Slow Monday rumor mill topic: plenty of chatter on the Breeze discussion thread about CMH ground ops postings for a “confidential employer”, so it seems likely that at least one airline not currently serving CMH has concrete near-term plans to do so. Start-up? Established holdout? Anyone with additional info?
 
jplatts
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 4:53 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
Slow Monday rumor mill topic: plenty of chatter on the Breeze discussion thread about CMH ground ops postings for a “confidential employer”, so it seems likely that at least one airline not currently serving CMH has concrete near-term plans to do so. Start-up? Established holdout? Anyone with additional info?


If it is an existing airline, the most likely possibilities would be B6 re-entering CMH or SY entering CMH with AS, AA, DL, F9, WN, NK, and UA all already serving CMH and G4 already serving LCK.

Another possibility might be UE operating Part 135 charter flights out of CMH.
 
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Citrus1492
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:36 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 5:37 pm

jplatts wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
Slow Monday rumor mill topic: plenty of chatter on the Breeze discussion thread about CMH ground ops postings for a “confidential employer”, so it seems likely that at least one airline not currently serving CMH has concrete near-term plans to do so. Start-up? Established holdout? Anyone with additional info?


If it is an existing airline, the most likely possibilities would be B6 re-entering CMH or SY entering CMH with AS, AA, DL, F9, WN, NK, and UA all already serving CMH and G4 already serving LCK.

Another possibility might be UE operating Part 135 charter flights out of CMH.

SY or B6 would contract with Trego or ATS if they were starting CMH. UE would use Lane Aviation. I'd think Breeze would try LCK or DAY before facing existing competition at CMH.
Be the best
 
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Citrus1492
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 6:31 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
ContnlEliteCMH wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:


I see that the CRAA is still intent on the midfield terminal. I'm sure we'll all love using it, but I still think it's a huge waste.


I thought that project was “back-burnered” at the moment (although obviously related projects like the CONRAC facility have continued)?

Slow Monday rumor mill topic: plenty of chatter on the Breeze discussion thread about CMH ground ops postings for a “confidential employer”, so it seems likely that at least one airline not currently serving CMH has concrete near-term plans to do so. Start-up? Established holdout? Anyone with additional info?

The confidential employer looking for a general manager is a ground handling company with a problematic reputation.
Be the best
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 6:54 pm

Citrus1492 wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
ContnlEliteCMH wrote:

I see that the CRAA is still intent on the midfield terminal. I'm sure we'll all love using it, but I still think it's a huge waste.


I thought that project was “back-burnered” at the moment (although obviously related projects like the CONRAC facility have continued)?

Slow Monday rumor mill topic: plenty of chatter on the Breeze discussion thread about CMH ground ops postings for a “confidential employer”, so it seems likely that at least one airline not currently serving CMH has concrete near-term plans to do so. Start-up? Established holdout? Anyone with additional info?

The confidential employer looking for a general manager is a ground handling company with a problematic reputation.


Even more problematic than the existing ground handling subcontractors? :crazy:
 
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Citrus1492
Posts: 74
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 2:42 am

CMHtraveler wrote:
Citrus1492 wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:

I thought that project was “back-burnered” at the moment (although obviously related projects like the CONRAC facility have continued)?

Slow Monday rumor mill topic: plenty of chatter on the Breeze discussion thread about CMH ground ops postings for a “confidential employer”, so it seems likely that at least one airline not currently serving CMH has concrete near-term plans to do so. Start-up? Established holdout? Anyone with additional info?

The confidential employer looking for a general manager is a ground handling company with a problematic reputation.


Even more problematic than the existing ground handling subcontractors? :crazy:

Its an existing ground handler.
Be the best
 
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Citrus1492
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 3:39 am

ContnlEliteCMH wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:


I see that the CRAA is still intent on the midfield terminal. I'm sure we'll all love using it, but I still think it's a huge waste.

CMH was completely fine in its previous configuration. The new construction will only add higher fares and costs all arond.
Be the best
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 12:10 pm

Citrus1492 wrote:
ContnlEliteCMH wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:


I see that the CRAA is still intent on the midfield terminal. I'm sure we'll all love using it, but I still think it's a huge waste.

CMH was completely fine in its previous configuration. The new construction will only add higher fares and costs all arond.


Thanks for the info on the ground handling job postings, not sure why an existing ground handler would feel the need to post as a “confidential employer”.

Where are you all seeing anything in the board minutes regarding the midfield terminal project? The only construction-related items I am seeing are the CONRAC which will relieve pre-pandemic parking shortages, a sewer easement for an adjacent property owner, and a couple of projects at LCK. The desire to sign a contract with an operator for the new concourse B lounge project for “up to 8 years” seems to be a pretty solid statement of intent that the current layout will be around for awhile.
 
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AirportRival
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 2:06 pm

I can't remember if I mentioned this before but it looks like F9 is bringing back CVG-DFW on June 11 at 4x weekly. Also looks like CVG-MCO gets reduced to 1x daily.
Check out CVG's daily flight schedule https://sites.google.com/view/through-the-terminal
 
ContnlEliteCMH
Posts: 1391
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:19 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 2:25 am

CMHtraveler wrote:
Where are you all seeing anything in the board minutes regarding the midfield terminal project?


Page 4 of 7 of the meeting notes:

2025 Strategic Blueprint: Easterday provided an update on results related to CRAA’s success metrics for 2020.
Savings for the Midfield Terminal Program were $6 million, and while CRAA did not meet the goal of $15 million in
savings this year, considering the loss in passenger traffic and revenue in relation to the pandemic, CRAA is happy
with the progress.


It's entirely possible I don't understand, but I interpret this to mean that the CRAA is trying to lay aside some cash for the project. This is consistent with the CRAA's stated funding sources for the project, per https://www.columbusunderground.com/new-1-3-billion-airport-terminal-being-considered-in-columbus.

CMHtraveler wrote:
The desire to sign a contract with an operator for the new concourse B lounge project for “up to 8 years” seems to be a pretty solid statement of intent that the current layout will be around for awhile.


The original plan for the midfield terminal project was to begin construction when annual passenger volume reached 8.5(?) million per year or 2028, whichever came first. Construction was estimated to take 7 years, with completion in 2035. An eight year agreement with a lounge operator doesn't indicate abandonment of the CRAA's plan to increase the fees this passenger pays for a new terminal.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
CMHtraveler
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 12:40 pm

ContnlEliteCMH wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
Where are you all seeing anything in the board minutes regarding the midfield terminal project?


Page 4 of 7 of the meeting notes:

2025 Strategic Blueprint: Easterday provided an update on results related to CRAA’s success metrics for 2020.
Savings for the Midfield Terminal Program were $6 million, and while CRAA did not meet the goal of $15 million in
savings this year, considering the loss in passenger traffic and revenue in relation to the pandemic, CRAA is happy
with the progress.


It's entirely possible I don't understand, but I interpret this to mean that the CRAA is trying to lay aside some cash for the project. This is consistent with the CRAA's stated funding sources for the project, per https://www.columbusunderground.com/new-1-3-billion-airport-terminal-being-considered-in-columbus.

CMHtraveler wrote:
The desire to sign a contract with an operator for the new concourse B lounge project for “up to 8 years” seems to be a pretty solid statement of intent that the current layout will be around for awhile.


The original plan for the midfield terminal project was to begin construction when annual passenger volume reached 8.5(?) million per year or 2028, whichever came first. Construction was estimated to take 7 years, with completion in 2035. An eight year agreement with a lounge operator doesn't indicate abandonment of the CRAA's plan to increase the fees this passenger pays for a new terminal.


Thanks for the clarification, I missed that sentence. While pre-pandemic it seemed inevitable that CMH would reach 8.5 million passengers before 2028, it now seems like a toss up, even unlikely, with some changes to business travel likely quasi-permanent.

Either way I agree with your assessment that the current terminal is just fine. The renovations were very well done and it certainly meets the current (and 2019-level) needs. This will be especially true when the CONRAC opens and if they do secure an independent lounge as planned. I have no problem with them saving up for a future project but let’s hope it aligns with real necessity and does not just become a vanity project.
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 314
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu May 06, 2021 3:23 pm

Have to disagree with some of the comments above about the need for the new Midfield terminal project to continue, if not even pick up speed. Although total passenger counts remain depressed, the interesting thing about the Columbus region is the that the economy continues to be strong, job growth is continuing, and the return of passengers at CMH is starting to really pick up. I do not think that as business travel ramps up to whatever is its new norm will be (my guess is about 25% less or so), all of these new leisure destinations will disappear, so our new baseline will be somewhat higher than where we were before. In other words an increase in leisure travel plus a mostly returned business travel will put us in a spot where the current terminal is above capacity sooner rather than later. Judging by the trendlines, I do not think its out of possibility at all for us to be north of 8M passengers in 2023 and nearing 9M in 2024/2025, with a continuing 3-5% growth each year based on population trends and increases in economic activity. So, that would mean the new terminal will really be needed in 2030, which would fit the timeline of the agreement for the lounge services.

I agree that CMH is a good terminal and they did an amazing job with the recent renovation-- but the guts of that building date to 1958 and it is not going to be possible to keep it going forever. I am very curious about that capacity maximization study that was done but back-shelved by Covid-- it will likely become necessary sooner rather than later. United is already doubling up 175s at Gate 29 and Gate 32-- how will that work when AC comes back and some of the flights are mainline? That end of B will be a congested mess-- when you add in Spirit's growing operation--it is not going to be ideal.

Just last week, the line for security in B was out to the lobby again and that is at basically half capacity. That is not sustainable long term and the efficiencies of operations in a modernized terminal (single TSA checkpoint, reduced utility costs, improved amenities, can be done without breaking the bank. I know that IND is a great but expensive terminal, but I think the lessons have been learned for our future terminal complex and given what is now in service at LGA, DCA, and CLT A I can not wait for something like that here.
“What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly”-Richard Bach
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5379
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 6:31 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
Have to disagree with some of the comments above about the need for the new Midfield terminal project to continue, if not even pick up speed. Although total passenger counts remain depressed, the interesting thing about the Columbus region is the that the economy continues to be strong, job growth is continuing, and the return of passengers at CMH is starting to really pick up. I do not think that as business travel ramps up to whatever is its new norm will be (my guess is about 25% less or so), all of these new leisure destinations will disappear, so our new baseline will be somewhat higher than where we were before. In other words an increase in leisure travel plus a mostly returned business travel will put us in a spot where the current terminal is above capacity sooner rather than later. Judging by the trendlines, I do not think its out of possibility at all for us to be north of 8M passengers in 2023 and nearing 9M in 2024/2025, with a continuing 3-5% growth each year based on population trends and increases in economic activity. So, that would mean the new terminal will really be needed in 2030, which would fit the timeline of the agreement for the lounge services.

I agree that CMH is a good terminal and they did an amazing job with the recent renovation-- but the guts of that building date to 1958 and it is not going to be possible to keep it going forever. I am very curious about that capacity maximization study that was done but back-shelved by Covid-- it will likely become necessary sooner rather than later. United is already doubling up 175s at Gate 29 and Gate 32-- how will that work when AC comes back and some of the flights are mainline? That end of B will be a congested mess-- when you add in Spirit's growing operation--it is not going to be ideal.

Just last week, the line for security in B was out to the lobby again and that is at basically half capacity. That is not sustainable long term and the efficiencies of operations in a modernized terminal (single TSA checkpoint, reduced utility costs, improved amenities, can be done without breaking the bank. I know that IND is a great but expensive terminal, but I think the lessons have been learned for our future terminal complex and given what is now in service at LGA, DCA, and CLT A I can not wait for something like that here.


I still think, as unpopular as it might be, bus gates could be an option for CR2/5/7s and ERJ-145s. Park the planes on the de-ice pad.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 3:16 pm

Some ohio developments:

DL is switching to all A220 on CVG-BOS in October
DL CVG-SFO appears to be completely cut
DL CMH-SLC cut up until the Christmas Holiday
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
jplatts
Posts: 4540
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 3:38 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
DL CVG-SFO appears to be completely cut


I had previously mentioned the possibility of UA re-adding CVG-SFO nonstop service with the significant demand that was there to the San Francisco Bay Area from CVG prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

The PDEW of CVG-SFO/OAK/SJC was 341 passengers/day in Q3 2019, but UA can likely make the return CVG-SFO nonstop service work if demand to the San Francisco Bay Area from CVG is at 1/3 of Q3 2019 levels.

I had also previously mentioned that there are also some UA FF's in the San Francisco Bay Area who would avoid other airlines such as DL, WN, AS, G4, or NK whenever possible.

F9 re-adding CVG-SFO nonstop service, WN or G4 adding CVG-OAK nonstop service, or AS adding CVG-SFO nonstop service are also possibilities with the significant demand that was there to the San Francisco Bay Area from CVG prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2372
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 12:58 pm

JobsOhio officials have announced details of the Ohio Commercial Air Service Restoration program. Below is a link to the article describing the initiative as well as the program's website:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... ogram.html

https://www.jobsohio.com/air-service-restoration/

Some of the finer points include:

- $10 million total in revenue guarantees
- 5 deals in the works at 4 Ohio airports
- Funds are available to airports serving Ohio cities, so CVG is eligible
- Focus was initially on attracting new international service from CLE, CMH, and CVG, as well as new domestic flights from DAY, CAK, and TOL. No mention of YNG or other Ohio airports initially.
- Focus now is not only restoring domestic service but adding more than pre-COVID levels
- Guarantees last 1 year (12 months) only
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1901
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 1:14 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
Either way I agree with your assessment that the current terminal is just fine. The renovations were very well done and it certainly meets the current (and 2019-level) needs. This will be especially true when the CONRAC opens and if they do secure an independent lounge as planned. I have no problem with them saving up for a future project but let’s hope it aligns with real necessity and does not just become a vanity project.

Is it? Having flown WN twice recently, concourse A seems to be bursting at the seams.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
CVGspottekass
Posts: 18
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 2:31 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Some ohio developments:

DL is switching to all A220 on CVG-BOS in October
DL CVG-SFO appears to be completely cut
DL CMH-SLC cut up until the Christmas Holiday


DL has not cut CVG-SFO, it is set to resume on April of 2022.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5379
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 3:08 pm

flyCMH wrote:
JobsOhio officials have announced details of the Ohio Commercial Air Service Restoration program. Below is a link to the article describing the initiative as well as the program's website:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... ogram.html

https://www.jobsohio.com/air-service-restoration/

Some of the finer points include:

- $10 million total in revenue guarantees
- 5 deals in the works at 4 Ohio airports
- Funds are available to airports serving Ohio cities, so CVG is eligible
- Focus was initially on attracting new international service from CLE, CMH, and CVG, as well as new domestic flights from DAY, CAK, and TOL. No mention of YNG or other Ohio airports initially.
- Focus now is not only restoring domestic service but adding more than pre-COVID levels
- Guarantees last 1 year (12 months) only


Don't get me wrong, I'm glad this finally happened, but part of me goes "Great, we finally get an incentive program when point-to-point TATL is dead in the water. Good job, Ohio."

Still, something's better than nothing and this is a big enough something to benefit everyone. I'm excited to see what comes of it and what/where the 5 deals are.

edit-
Though surrounding states including Pennsylvania and Indiana have in the past been aggressive in using revenue guarantees to attract new flights, Slaybaugh said Ohio is at an advantage right now because of its $10 million war chest.


This is an interesting point. I wonder how other states' funding pools for air service incentives (i.e., Christina Cassotis' magical money tree at PIT) are stocked compared to this.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 4:42 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
Either way I agree with your assessment that the current terminal is just fine. The renovations were very well done and it certainly meets the current (and 2019-level) needs. This will be especially true when the CONRAC opens and if they do secure an independent lounge as planned. I have no problem with them saving up for a future project but let’s hope it aligns with real necessity and does not just become a vanity project.

Is it? Having flown WN twice recently, concourse A seems to be bursting at the seams.


I hear you, I’ve been through Concourse A a couple times myself in the past few weeks, and there are certainly times of day where it is packed. It seems primarily like a WN scheduling issue(?) as there are planes on the taxiway waiting for gates more than I remember pre-pandemic, and then other times of day that only one or two gates are in use. But overall, the latest public numbers from CRAA indicate that even at the peak of spring break this year, passengers were only at ~65% of the 2019 baseline, so that’s certainly within current terminal capacity.

As for the JobsOhio program, I hope that regaining CMH to LAX and SFO nonstops from the network carriers are one of the five projects being worked on. They are missed. I also wonder if there is anything in the works for YNG?
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1901
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 5:18 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
Either way I agree with your assessment that the current terminal is just fine. The renovations were very well done and it certainly meets the current (and 2019-level) needs. This will be especially true when the CONRAC opens and if they do secure an independent lounge as planned. I have no problem with them saving up for a future project but let’s hope it aligns with real necessity and does not just become a vanity project.

Is it? Having flown WN twice recently, concourse A seems to be bursting at the seams.


I hear you, I’ve been through Concourse A a couple times myself in the past few weeks, and there are certainly times of day where it is packed. It seems primarily like a WN scheduling issue(?) as there are planes on the taxiway waiting for gates more than I remember pre-pandemic, and then other times of day that only one or two gates are in use. But overall, the latest public numbers from CRAA indicate that even at the peak of spring break this year, passengers were only at ~65% of the 2019 baseline, so that’s certainly within current terminal capacity.

As for the JobsOhio program, I hope that regaining CMH to LAX and SFO nonstops from the network carriers are one of the five projects being worked on. They are missed. I also wonder if there is anything in the works for YNG?

It's not just the number of gates, which is probably fine for Southwest now and in the near future. There is no where near enough seating and the concourses themselves are not wide enough. I would argue there is a lack of restaurants and shops too.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5379
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 6:45 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
Either way I agree with your assessment that the current terminal is just fine. The renovations were very well done and it certainly meets the current (and 2019-level) needs. This will be especially true when the CONRAC opens and if they do secure an independent lounge as planned. I have no problem with them saving up for a future project but let’s hope it aligns with real necessity and does not just become a vanity project.

Is it? Having flown WN twice recently, concourse A seems to be bursting at the seams.


I hear you, I’ve been through Concourse A a couple times myself in the past few weeks, and there are certainly times of day where it is packed. It seems primarily like a WN scheduling issue(?) as there are planes on the taxiway waiting for gates more than I remember pre-pandemic, and then other times of day that only one or two gates are in use. But overall, the latest public numbers from CRAA indicate that even at the peak of spring break this year, passengers were only at ~65% of the 2019 baseline, so that’s certainly within current terminal capacity.

As for the JobsOhio program, I hope that regaining CMH to LAX and SFO nonstops from the network carriers are one of the five projects being worked on. They are missed. I also wonder if there is anything in the works for YNG?


I don't get why CRAA/WN haven't hooked a jetway up to A1 to give them more flexibility. They've got a ton of flights running through 5 gates.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1901
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 6:52 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Is it? Having flown WN twice recently, concourse A seems to be bursting at the seams.


I hear you, I’ve been through Concourse A a couple times myself in the past few weeks, and there are certainly times of day where it is packed. It seems primarily like a WN scheduling issue(?) as there are planes on the taxiway waiting for gates more than I remember pre-pandemic, and then other times of day that only one or two gates are in use. But overall, the latest public numbers from CRAA indicate that even at the peak of spring break this year, passengers were only at ~65% of the 2019 baseline, so that’s certainly within current terminal capacity.

As for the JobsOhio program, I hope that regaining CMH to LAX and SFO nonstops from the network carriers are one of the five projects being worked on. They are missed. I also wonder if there is anything in the works for YNG?


I don't get why CRAA/WN haven't hooked a jetway up to A1 to give them more flexibility. They've got a ton of flights running through 5 gates.

I'm guessing there isn't enough room to fit two 737's side by side at A1 and A2.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:11 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 8:30 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:

I hear you, I’ve been through Concourse A a couple times myself in the past few weeks, and there are certainly times of day where it is packed. It seems primarily like a WN scheduling issue(?) as there are planes on the taxiway waiting for gates more than I remember pre-pandemic, and then other times of day that only one or two gates are in use. But overall, the latest public numbers from CRAA indicate that even at the peak of spring break this year, passengers were only at ~65% of the 2019 baseline, so that’s certainly within current terminal capacity.

As for the JobsOhio program, I hope that regaining CMH to LAX and SFO nonstops from the network carriers are one of the five projects being worked on. They are missed. I also wonder if there is anything in the works for YNG?


I don't get why CRAA/WN haven't hooked a jetway up to A1 to give them more flexibility. They've got a ton of flights running through 5 gates.

I'm guessing there isn't enough room to fit two 737's side by side at A1 and A2.


Funny thing is, A2 actually has room and markings to handle (3) 737s-- 2 on the south side and one on the east side. You used to see that arrangement pre-pandemic in the very early AM. (in addition to a WN A/C parked on one of the two lines for B36). The poster above is spot on about it more than gates, its about hold rooms, restrooms, shops, security, etc. Although the airport as a whole is still down, its not an even impact-- with Sprit and WN doing better more quickly at putting tourists on larger aircraft vs flights w/business travelers to BOS, LGA, DCA, etc. on regionals by AA and DL. I can not wait to see how full the NK flights to LAX are and if that actually drives tourism from Central Ohio to the West Coast.
“What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly”-Richard Bach
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 8:44 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:

I don't get why CRAA/WN haven't hooked a jetway up to A1 to give them more flexibility. They've got a ton of flights running through 5 gates.

I'm guessing there isn't enough room to fit two 737's side by side at A1 and A2.


Funny thing is, A2 actually has room and markings to handle (3) 737s-- 2 on the south side and one on the east side. You used to see that arrangement pre-pandemic in the very early AM. (in addition to a WN A/C parked on one of the two lines for B36). The poster above is spot on about it more than gates, its about hold rooms, restrooms, shops, security, etc. Although the airport as a whole is still down, its not an even impact-- with Sprit and WN doing better more quickly at putting tourists on larger aircraft vs flights w/business travelers to BOS, LGA, DCA, etc. on regionals by AA and DL. I can not wait to see how full the NK flights to LAX are and if that actually drives tourism from Central Ohio to the West Coast.


The East line might have been a line for A1 at one point (unless they re-did it when US used it for ramp boarding). Ironically, WN's original gate at CMH (before they moved to C only to move back in 2005) is the only one on A they don't currently use.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6121
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 2:24 am

CVGspottekass wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Some ohio developments:

DL is switching to all A220 on CVG-BOS in October
DL CVG-SFO appears to be completely cut
DL CMH-SLC cut up until the Christmas Holiday


DL has not cut CVG-SFO, it is set to resume on April of 2022.


I think it appearing in April is a scheduling glitch, not sure why it happens, but it was doing the same thing as when DL pulled some IND flights last year. I posted it last week in the DL network thread, but last week it was showing a cut up until March 24th, now this week it is showing 1 week later.

FWIW, Crankyflier is also reporting it being gone for good.

https://crankyflier.com/2021/05/10/airl ... stability/

DeltaRules wrote:
Though surrounding states including Pennsylvania and Indiana have in the past been aggressive in using revenue guarantees to attract new flights, Slaybaugh said Ohio is at an advantage right now because of its $10 million war chest.


This is an interesting point. I wonder how other states' funding pools for air service incentives (i.e., Christina Cassotis' magical money tree at PIT) are stocked compared to this.


Indiana approved an additional $10M for its "direct flight fund" last month, and PIT seems to have a steady flow of incentive money.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 10:53 am

The CMH route list has been updated at some point recently. Of note AC YYZ flights are now “Available for booking starting July 1. Dependent on border restrictions.”

Looks like 1x daily on a Jazz CRJ-200 at the moment. We’ll see what happens with the July date but certainly appears like AC plans to resume service ASAP and is confident enough in the date to sell tickets.

https://flycolumbus.com/storage/product ... s-2021.pdf
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:11 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 11:22 am

CMHtraveler wrote:
The CMH route list has been updated at some point recently. Of note AC YYZ flights are now “Available for booking starting July 1. Dependent on border restrictions.”

Looks like 1x daily on a Jazz CRJ-200 at the moment. We’ll see what happens with the July date but certainly appears like AC plans to resume service ASAP and is confident enough in the date to sell tickets.

https://flycolumbus.com/storage/product ... s-2021.pdf


Nice catch and thanks for posting. I give them all the credit in the world for even trying to keep up with this! Quick count looks like about 85ish flights now on peak days or so. so we have about another 80 to go to get back to pre-pandemic levels. Will be interesting to see how long that takes... On a totally unrelated note, anyone know the story behind the C5 that made a stop at CMH the other day?
“What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly”-Richard Bach
 
a320flyer
Posts: 75
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 1:52 pm

Delta has loaded a 767 frequency on CVG-ATL beginning July 7. This is the first time we've had a regularly scheduled domestic widebody route in a long time!
 
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AirportRival
Posts: 442
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 3:15 pm

a320flyer wrote:
Delta has loaded a 767 frequency on CVG-ATL beginning July 7. This is the first time we've had a regularly scheduled domestic widebody route in a long time!


That's crazy! Hopefully it sticks

Nice catch!!
Check out CVG's daily flight schedule https://sites.google.com/view/through-the-terminal
 
Insertnamehere
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:44 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 3:30 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
AirportRival wrote:
Looks like Southwest is adding Saturday only service from CVG to SRQ and RSW in June. I'm still looking for anything else


CMH-MIA per Midwestindy.

Maybe AA will finally throw mainline on the route now?


I wish but doubtful. The route is bouncing between E175s and E145s quite often. Maybe if they cut it to 1 daily to 2 daily instead of 3x daily they could but other than that I doubt they will.

I've taken the route a few times between the two over the summer and wow almost 3 hours on an E145 is certainly an experience. Paid extra to guarantee an A seat as I couldn't handle a BC seat on how narrow the E145 seats are.

Maybe they will throw an A319 on the route if there's sufficient slack in schedules but unless something changes I don't see it happening.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4540
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 6:49 pm

AirportRival wrote:
a320flyer wrote:
Delta has loaded a 767 frequency on CVG-ATL beginning July 7. This is the first time we've had a regularly scheduled domestic widebody route in a long time!


That's crazy! Hopefully it sticks


Here were the load factors, number of passengers, and number of seats on WN ATL-CMH/IND/SDF in February 2021:
ATL-CMH - 10147 passengers, 13395 seats, 75.75% load factor
ATL-IND - 12936 passengers, 17356 seats, 74.53% load factor
ATL-SDF - 3962 passengers, 6499 seats, 60.96% load factor

Here were the load factors, number of passengers, and number of seats on FL ATL-DAY in 2013 and 2014:
2013 - 179154 passengers, 239188 seats, 74.90% load factor
2014 - 73159 passengers, 92570 seats, 79.03% load factor (FL ATL-DAY nonstop service dropped in June 2014)

WN adding CVG-ATL nonstop service might be a possibility with
(a) ATL being a hub for WN,
(b) WN having over 60% load factors to ATL from peer markets such as CMH, IND, and SDF in February 2021, and
(c) connecting opportunities available to some other Southern destinations such as FLL, GSP, JAN, JAX, LIT, MEM, MIA, MSY, MYR, ECP, PNS, RDU, and PBI through ATL on WN.

One reason why DL might have upgauged one of its CVG-ATL nonstop flights to a 767 is to defend market share against a possible add by WN on the CVG-ATL route.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4540
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 7:21 pm

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN out of CVG and CMH in February 2021:
BWI-CVG - 4881 passengers, 15275 seats, 31.95% load factor
CVG-DEN - 5225 passengers, 6896 seats, 75.77% load factor
CVG-HOU - 1870 passengers, 5720 seats, 32.69% load factor
CVG-MCO - 3562 passengers, 6864 seats, 51.89% load factor
CVG-MDW - 3748 passengers, 8443 seats, 44.39% load factor

ATL-CMH - 10147 passengers, 13395 seats, 75.75% load factor
BNA-CMH - 4957 passengers, 7150 seats, 69.33% load factor
BWI-CMH - 7754 passengers, 13856 seats, 55.96% load factor
CMH-DAL - 3331 passengers, 6149 seats, 54.17% load factor
CMH-DEN - 6487 passengers, 8857 seats, 73.24% load factor
CMH-FLL - 968 passengers, 1272 seats, 76.10% load factor
CMH-LAS - 917 passengers, 1272 seats, 72.09% load factor
CMH-MCO - 10822 passengers, 12402 seats, 87.26% load factor
CMH-MDW - 10737 passengers, 16359 seats, 65.63% load factor
CMH-PHX - 1086 passengers, 1272 seats, 85.38% load factor
CMH-RSW - 11144 passengers, 12547 seats, 88.82% load factor
CMH-TPA - 1989 passengers, 2288 seats, 86.93% load factor
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 8:41 pm

jplatts wrote:
Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN out of CVG and CMH in February 2021:
BWI-CVG - 4881 passengers, 15275 seats, 31.95% load factor
CVG-DEN - 5225 passengers, 6896 seats, 75.77% load factor
CVG-HOU - 1870 passengers, 5720 seats, 32.69% load factor
CVG-MCO - 3562 passengers, 6864 seats, 51.89% load factor
CVG-MDW - 3748 passengers, 8443 seats, 44.39% load factor

ATL-CMH - 10147 passengers, 13395 seats, 75.75% load factor
BNA-CMH - 4957 passengers, 7150 seats, 69.33% load factor
BWI-CMH - 7754 passengers, 13856 seats, 55.96% load factor
CMH-DAL - 3331 passengers, 6149 seats, 54.17% load factor
CMH-DEN - 6487 passengers, 8857 seats, 73.24% load factor
CMH-FLL - 968 passengers, 1272 seats, 76.10% load factor
CMH-LAS - 917 passengers, 1272 seats, 72.09% load factor
CMH-MCO - 10822 passengers, 12402 seats, 87.26% load factor
CMH-MDW - 10737 passengers, 16359 seats, 65.63% load factor
CMH-PHX - 1086 passengers, 1272 seats, 85.38% load factor
CMH-RSW - 11144 passengers, 12547 seats, 88.82% load factor
CMH-TPA - 1989 passengers, 2288 seats, 86.93% load factor


Thank you very much for posting these! How about CMH-HOU?
***EDIT- Just realized CMH-HOU hadn’t resumed yet by February. Ignore
 
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AirportRival
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 12:13 am

jplatts wrote:
Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN out of CVG and CMH in February 2021:
BWI-CVG - 4881 passengers, 15275 seats, 31.95% load factor
CVG-DEN - 5225 passengers, 6896 seats, 75.77% load factor
CVG-HOU - 1870 passengers, 5720 seats, 32.69% load factor
CVG-MCO - 3562 passengers, 6864 seats, 51.89% load factor
CVG-MDW - 3748 passengers, 8443 seats, 44.39% load factor

ATL-CMH - 10147 passengers, 13395 seats, 75.75% load factor
BNA-CMH - 4957 passengers, 7150 seats, 69.33% load factor
BWI-CMH - 7754 passengers, 13856 seats, 55.96% load factor
CMH-DAL - 3331 passengers, 6149 seats, 54.17% load factor
CMH-DEN - 6487 passengers, 8857 seats, 73.24% load factor
CMH-FLL - 968 passengers, 1272 seats, 76.10% load factor
CMH-LAS - 917 passengers, 1272 seats, 72.09% load factor
CMH-MCO - 10822 passengers, 12402 seats, 87.26% load factor
CMH-MDW - 10737 passengers, 16359 seats, 65.63% load factor
CMH-PHX - 1086 passengers, 1272 seats, 85.38% load factor
CMH-RSW - 11144 passengers, 12547 seats, 88.82% load factor
CMH-TPA - 1989 passengers, 2288 seats, 86.93% load factor


Thanks for this jplatts. After looking at those numbers it's no wonder Southwest hasn't expanded much from CVG
Check out CVG's daily flight schedule https://sites.google.com/view/through-the-terminal
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5379
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 12:41 am

AirportRival wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN out of CVG and CMH in February 2021:
BWI-CVG - 4881 passengers, 15275 seats, 31.95% load factor
CVG-DEN - 5225 passengers, 6896 seats, 75.77% load factor
CVG-HOU - 1870 passengers, 5720 seats, 32.69% load factor
CVG-MCO - 3562 passengers, 6864 seats, 51.89% load factor
CVG-MDW - 3748 passengers, 8443 seats, 44.39% load factor

ATL-CMH - 10147 passengers, 13395 seats, 75.75% load factor
BNA-CMH - 4957 passengers, 7150 seats, 69.33% load factor
BWI-CMH - 7754 passengers, 13856 seats, 55.96% load factor
CMH-DAL - 3331 passengers, 6149 seats, 54.17% load factor
CMH-DEN - 6487 passengers, 8857 seats, 73.24% load factor
CMH-FLL - 968 passengers, 1272 seats, 76.10% load factor
CMH-LAS - 917 passengers, 1272 seats, 72.09% load factor
CMH-MCO - 10822 passengers, 12402 seats, 87.26% load factor
CMH-MDW - 10737 passengers, 16359 seats, 65.63% load factor
CMH-PHX - 1086 passengers, 1272 seats, 85.38% load factor
CMH-RSW - 11144 passengers, 12547 seats, 88.82% load factor
CMH-TPA - 1989 passengers, 2288 seats, 86.93% load factor


Thanks for this jplatts. After looking at those numbers it's no wonder Southwest hasn't expanded much from CVG


Yeah, I'm surprised at those numbers out of CVG. Maybe they've hit critical mass with the number of airlines flying similar routes and there are too many cooks flying the same routes as WN's staples?

I wonder if they see that and wish they hadn't bailed on DAY so fast.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
jplatts
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 1:45 am

DeltaRules wrote:
Yeah, I'm surprised at those numbers out of CVG. Maybe they've hit critical mass with the number of airlines flying similar routes and there are too many cooks flying the same routes as WN's staples?

I wonder if they see that and wish they hadn't bailed on DAY so fast.


Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for some WN routes out of CVG, DAY, SDF, and CMH:
WN DAY-MDW in 6/2016 - 5/2017 time period - 212503 passengers, 294620 seats, 72.13% load factor
WN SDF-MDW in 6/2016 - 5/2017 time period - 270605 passengers, 378797 seats, 71.44% load factor
WN CMH-MDW in 6/2016 - 5/2017 time period - 411652 passengers, 590172 seats, 69.75% load factor

WN CVG-MDW in 6/2017 - 5/2018 time period - 388210 passengers, 503233 seats, 77.14% load factor
WN SDF-MDW in 6/2017 - 5/2018 time period - 276263 passengers, 371932 seats, 74.28% load factor
WN CMH-MDW in 6/2017 - 5/2018 time period - 447040 passengers, 565052 seats, 79.11% load factor

WN CVG-MDW in 2019 - 295523 passengers, 441498 seats, 66.94% load factor
WN SDF-MDW in 2019 - 224350 passengers, 323045 seats, 69.45% load factor
WN CMH-MDW in 2019 - 389746 passengers, 532726 seats, 73.16% load factor

WN DAY-DEN in 2015 - 88079 passengers, 102703 seats, 85.76% load factor
WN SDF-DEN in 2015 - 91932 passengers, 105600 seats, 87.06% load factor
WN CMH-DEN in 2015 - 117426 passengers, 132336 seats, 88.73% load factor

WN CVG-DEN in 2019 - 92085 passengers, 105724 seats, 87.10% load factor
WN SDF-DEN in 2019 - 91903 passengers, 108552 seats, 84.66% load factor
WN CMH-DEN in 2019 - 132858 passengers, 149838 seats, 88.67% load factor

WN DAY-BWI in 2015 - 140017 passengers, 210150 seats, 66.63% load factor
WN SDF-BWI in 2015 - 255761 passengers, 349705 seats, 73.14% load factor
WN CMH-BWI in 2015 - 295988 passengers, 444908 seats, 66.53% load factor
WN CMH-DCA in 2015 - 56940 passengers, 91975 seats, 61.91% load factor (WN CMH-DCA nonstop service started on 4/8/2015)

WN CVG-BWI in 2019 - 195593 passengers, 288628 seats, 67.75% load factor
WN SDF-BWI in 2019 - 233848 passengers, 328093 seats, 71.27% load factor
WN CMH-BWI in 2019 - 266342 passengers, 383953 seats, 69.37% load factor
WN CMH-DCA in 2019 - 128057 passengers, 194862 seats, 65.72% load factor

WN CVG-MDW in 2020 - 102617 passengers, 232772 seats, 44.08% load factor
WN SDF-MDW in 2020 - 110685 passengers, 241749 seats, 45.79% load factor
WN CMH-MDW in 2020 - 150711 passengers, 336193 seats, 44.83% load factor

WN CVG-DEN in 2020 - 33026 passengers, 56913 seats, 58.03% load factor (WN temporarily suspended CVG-DEN nonstop service last year)
WN SDF-DEN in 2020 - 54247 passengers, 101830 seats, 53.27% load factor
WN CMH-DEN in 2020 - 75405 passengers, 136718 seats, 55.15% load factor

WN CVG-BWI in 2020 - 96628 passengers, 243216 seats, 39.73% load factor
WN SDF-BWI in 2020 - 91419 passengers, 224808 seats, 40.67% load factor
WN CMH-BWI in 2020 - 102116 passengers, 244024 seats, 41.85% load factor

Demand was actually stronger for WN CVG-DEN in 2019 than for WN DAY-DEN in 2015, and demand for WN CVG-MDW was much stronger in the 6/2017 - 5/2018 time period than the demand was for WN DAY-MDW in the 6/2016 - 5/2017 time period.

There was actually stronger demand for WN CVG-MDW/DEN than for WN SDF-MDW/DEN in 2019 with WN having carried more passengers on CVG-MDW/DEN than on SDF-MDW/DEN in 2019.

There was also stronger demand for WN CVG-BWI than for WN SDF-BWI in 2020.

WN CVG-BWI/DEN also had stronger demand than WN SDF-BWI/DEN in February 2021 as WN carried more passengers on CVG-BWI/DEN than on SDF-BWI/DEN in February 2021.

WN did make the right decision to pull out of DAY and enter CVG since demand for WN service out of CVG was stronger in the 6/2017 - 2/2020 time period than the demand was for WN service out of DAY in the 1/2015 - 5/2017 time period.

The COVID-19 pandemic really weakened demand for WN service out of CVG, and other airlines have made significant cuts out of CVG during the pandemic, including DL.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2372
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 3:58 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
AirportRival wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN out of CVG and CMH in February 2021:
BWI-CVG - 4881 passengers, 15275 seats, 31.95% load factor
CVG-DEN - 5225 passengers, 6896 seats, 75.77% load factor
CVG-HOU - 1870 passengers, 5720 seats, 32.69% load factor
CVG-MCO - 3562 passengers, 6864 seats, 51.89% load factor
CVG-MDW - 3748 passengers, 8443 seats, 44.39% load factor

ATL-CMH - 10147 passengers, 13395 seats, 75.75% load factor
BNA-CMH - 4957 passengers, 7150 seats, 69.33% load factor
BWI-CMH - 7754 passengers, 13856 seats, 55.96% load factor
CMH-DAL - 3331 passengers, 6149 seats, 54.17% load factor
CMH-DEN - 6487 passengers, 8857 seats, 73.24% load factor
CMH-FLL - 968 passengers, 1272 seats, 76.10% load factor
CMH-LAS - 917 passengers, 1272 seats, 72.09% load factor
CMH-MCO - 10822 passengers, 12402 seats, 87.26% load factor
CMH-MDW - 10737 passengers, 16359 seats, 65.63% load factor
CMH-PHX - 1086 passengers, 1272 seats, 85.38% load factor
CMH-RSW - 11144 passengers, 12547 seats, 88.82% load factor
CMH-TPA - 1989 passengers, 2288 seats, 86.93% load factor


Thanks for this jplatts. After looking at those numbers it's no wonder Southwest hasn't expanded much from CVG


Yeah, I'm surprised at those numbers out of CVG. Maybe they've hit critical mass with the number of airlines flying similar routes and there are too many cooks flying the same routes as WN's staples?

I wonder if they see that and wish they hadn't bailed on DAY so fast.


I think this might be one of those cases where LF doesn't tell the full story, even for an airline like WN. My guess would be they can command a higher fare premium and maybe score some contracts that they couldn't out of DAY. While those factors might not be as important to WN as they might be yl DL, UA, AS, etc., they are becoming more of a priority. I'm sure we'll see measured, calculated growth from CVG.

Amazing news on the widebody upgauge re: CVG-ATL! That's a big score in my book and shows the market is still sought after by DL despite what they might publish to the public. Hope to see some shots of it on the photo pages soon!
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3383
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 5:55 pm

AirportRival wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN out of CVG and CMH in February 2021:
BWI-CVG - 4881 passengers, 15275 seats, 31.95% load factor
CVG-DEN - 5225 passengers, 6896 seats, 75.77% load factor
CVG-HOU - 1870 passengers, 5720 seats, 32.69% load factor
CVG-MCO - 3562 passengers, 6864 seats, 51.89% load factor
CVG-MDW - 3748 passengers, 8443 seats, 44.39% load factor

ATL-CMH - 10147 passengers, 13395 seats, 75.75% load factor
BNA-CMH - 4957 passengers, 7150 seats, 69.33% load factor
BWI-CMH - 7754 passengers, 13856 seats, 55.96% load factor
CMH-DAL - 3331 passengers, 6149 seats, 54.17% load factor
CMH-DEN - 6487 passengers, 8857 seats, 73.24% load factor
CMH-FLL - 968 passengers, 1272 seats, 76.10% load factor
CMH-LAS - 917 passengers, 1272 seats, 72.09% load factor
CMH-MCO - 10822 passengers, 12402 seats, 87.26% load factor
CMH-MDW - 10737 passengers, 16359 seats, 65.63% load factor
CMH-PHX - 1086 passengers, 1272 seats, 85.38% load factor
CMH-RSW - 11144 passengers, 12547 seats, 88.82% load factor
CMH-TPA - 1989 passengers, 2288 seats, 86.93% load factor


Thanks for this jplatts. After looking at those numbers it's no wonder Southwest hasn't expanded much from CVG

I mean, they’re from February near the peak of the pandemic...
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