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flyguy89
Posts: 3382
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed May 26, 2021 11:53 pm

bigred10k wrote:
The Cincinnati companies that need non-stop service to cities have long since decided to charter flights, have access their own planes, or otherwise deal with potential connecting flights if non-stops aren't available or the timing of a single non-stop doesn't work. Adding a number of Breeze flights from CVG to tourist destinations isn't going to move the needle and bring Chiquita back to Cincinnati from Charlotte or lure other companies to the Cincinnati region. Bringing back CVG-CDG wouldn't either.

Let’s just accept everything you wrote here as truth. Same would apply to every other airport in Ohio if that were the case.

bigred10k wrote:
Also I disagree with your comments that these would all be low paying jobs. Look at the good results for the Dayton economy by having PSA Airlines headquartered there. If enough flights are added, there is the potential for additional jobs above and beyond the ground staff at the airports. Adding a pilot, maintenance, and/or crew bases in one of these cities to support an operation like Breeze would mean better paying jobs, and its reasonable to assume that they would choose to live near the airport. That then means they are going to be spending their paychecks at other local businesses, restaurants, etc. So doing this in CVG vs. actually investing in an Ohio airport would make little sense when Ohio taxpayer dollars are being used.

Um no? Absolutely is not the case that the numerous CVG-based pilots, FAs, and mechanics all only live in Kentucky. And in reverse do you think any Kentucky tax-payer investment at CVG doesn’t benefit Ohio at all? CVG is Cincinnati's airport. Unless you’re broadly questioning the wisdom of investing any tax dollars into air service, investing in air service to the gateway of your second-largest metro area makes every bit of sense.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4532
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu May 27, 2021 12:03 am

flyguy89 wrote:
bigred10k wrote:
The Cincinnati companies that need non-stop service to cities have long since decided to charter flights, have access their own planes, or otherwise deal with potential connecting flights if non-stops aren't available or the timing of a single non-stop doesn't work. Adding a number of Breeze flights from CVG to tourist destinations isn't going to move the needle and bring Chiquita back to Cincinnati from Charlotte or lure other companies to the Cincinnati region. Bringing back CVG-CDG wouldn't either.

Let’s just accept everything you wrote here as truth. Same would apply to every other airport in Ohio if that were the case.

bigred10k wrote:
Also I disagree with your comments that these would all be low paying jobs. Look at the good results for the Dayton economy by having PSA Airlines headquartered there. If enough flights are added, there is the potential for additional jobs above and beyond the ground staff at the airports. Adding a pilot, maintenance, and/or crew bases in one of these cities to support an operation like Breeze would mean better paying jobs, and its reasonable to assume that they would choose to live near the airport. That then means they are going to be spending their paychecks at other local businesses, restaurants, etc. So doing this in CVG vs. actually investing in an Ohio airport would make little sense when Ohio taxpayer dollars are being used.

Um no? Absolutely is not the case that the numerous CVG-based pilots, FAs, and mechanics all only live in Kentucky. And in reverse do you think any Kentucky tax-payer investment at CVG doesn’t benefit Ohio at all? CVG is Cincinnati's airport. Unless you’re broadly questioning the wisdom of investing any tax dollars into air service, investing in air service to the gateway of your second-largest metro area makes every bit of sense.


Other examples of airports located in a different state than the main city of the metro area include:
  • MLI is located in Moline, IL, whereas Davenport, IA (the largest city in the Quad Cities) is located in Iowa
  • IAD is located along the Loudoun-Fairfax county line in Northern Virginia, but serves Washington, DC
  • DCA is located in Arlington, VA adjacent to Washington, DC (with the DC-VA border and Potomac River running along the eastern edge of the DCA airport property)
  • EWR is located in Newark, NJ but serves Newark, NJ, the NYC city proper, and the surrounding area

I agree that CVG actually does serve the city of Cincinnati and that many of the passengers flying into or out of CVG are going to/from the state of Ohio, despite CVG being located in Kentucky.
 
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AirportRival
Posts: 442
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:24 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu May 27, 2021 1:25 am

flyguy89 wrote:
bigred10k wrote:
The Cincinnati companies that need non-stop service to cities have long since decided to charter flights, have access their own planes, or otherwise deal with potential connecting flights if non-stops aren't available or the timing of a single non-stop doesn't work. Adding a number of Breeze flights from CVG to tourist destinations isn't going to move the needle and bring Chiquita back to Cincinnati from Charlotte or lure other companies to the Cincinnati region. Bringing back CVG-CDG wouldn't either.

Let’s just accept everything you wrote here as truth. Same would apply to every other airport in Ohio if that were the case.

bigred10k wrote:
Also I disagree with your comments that these would all be low paying jobs. Look at the good results for the Dayton economy by having PSA Airlines headquartered there. If enough flights are added, there is the potential for additional jobs above and beyond the ground staff at the airports. Adding a pilot, maintenance, and/or crew bases in one of these cities to support an operation like Breeze would mean better paying jobs, and its reasonable to assume that they would choose to live near the airport. That then means they are going to be spending their paychecks at other local businesses, restaurants, etc. So doing this in CVG vs. actually investing in an Ohio airport would make little sense when Ohio taxpayer dollars are being used.

Um no? Absolutely is not the case that the numerous CVG-based pilots, FAs, and mechanics all only live in Kentucky. And in reverse do you think any Kentucky tax-payer investment at CVG doesn’t benefit Ohio at all? CVG is Cincinnati's airport. Unless you’re broadly questioning the wisdom of investing any tax dollars into air service, investing in air service to the gateway of your second-largest metro area makes every bit of sense.


As Flyguy has already pointed out, you are wrong. There are a plethora of Pilot and MX bases at CVG from the passenger and cargo airlines already. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of them do not live near the airport but it's irrelevant because the program isn't about establishing bases or HQ's.
Check out CVG's daily flight schedule https://sites.google.com/view/through-the-terminal
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2372
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu May 27, 2021 1:36 am

flyinryan99 wrote:
Off the top of my head, I think the Port is trying to tie JobsOhio money into the SCASD grant for DFW. It's nice to see the state competing with other states in offering up some cash to guarantee flights. I agree with you that it's time the state kicks in a little money into the facility as it was built in 1955 and needs to be replaced. It's just time...


Some more on this from WTOL 11:

https://www.wtol.com/article/news/local ... a78646e53e

I didn't realize the proposal for TOL-DFW had progressed this much. I could definitely see money from the Commercial Air Service Restoration program going to support this route. Hoping to see it become a reality before the end of the year.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5379
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu May 27, 2021 1:55 am

Flew out of CMH today and there are no references to Breeze anywhere yet.

Related to that, DL has "retaken" C48 (the monitor had a DL slideshow going), though I don't know how much use they're getting out of it.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu May 27, 2021 12:25 pm

flyCMH wrote:
flyinryan99 wrote:
Off the top of my head, I think the Port is trying to tie JobsOhio money into the SCASD grant for DFW. It's nice to see the state competing with other states in offering up some cash to guarantee flights. I agree with you that it's time the state kicks in a little money into the facility as it was built in 1955 and needs to be replaced. It's just time...


Some more on this from WTOL 11:

https://www.wtol.com/article/news/local ... a78646e53e

I didn't realize the proposal for TOL-DFW had progressed this much. I could definitely see money from the Commercial Air Service Restoration program going to support this route. Hoping to see it become a reality before the end of the year.


I hope for their sake the grant was better edited than that article. That first paragraph... :crazy:

In all seriousness, hope it works out. Good news for TOL.
 
cmhman
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:26 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu May 27, 2021 4:27 pm

Looks like the CMH-HXD flight is 4 hours delayed now. Bet there’s a lot of unhappy flyers right now! Or
Maybe just a few, who knows what the loads are like!
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2372
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu May 27, 2021 6:24 pm

cmhman wrote:
Looks like the CMH-HXD flight is 4 hours delayed now. Bet there’s a lot of unhappy flyers right now! Or
Maybe just a few, who knows what the loads are like!


The CMH-HHH inaugural was pushed to 4PM, or a 7 hr 30 min delay! Add time between airports and one could've driven it in that time!

My guess is most people have been re-accommodated, either through other hubs or the next day. If United's seat map is to be trusted, there are only 11 seats presently booked on the outbound.

The CMH-PWM first departure looks to have fared better, going out right on time and with only 8 empty seats (again, going by United's online seat map).
 
cmhman
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:26 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu May 27, 2021 6:59 pm

flyCMH wrote:
cmhman wrote:
Looks like the CMH-HXD flight is 4 hours delayed now. Bet there’s a lot of unhappy flyers right now! Or
Maybe just a few, who knows what the loads are like!


The CMH-HHH inaugural was pushed to 4PM, or a 7 hr 30 min delay! Add time between airports and one could've driven it in that time!

My guess is most people have been re-accommodated, either through other hubs or the next day. If United's seat map is to be trusted, there are only 11 seats presently booked on the outbound.

The CMH-PWM first departure looks to have fared better, going out right on time and with only 8 empty seats (again, going by United's online seat map).


Not good on that load factor to HHH but nice for Portland!
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2372
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu May 27, 2021 8:45 pm

cmhman wrote:
Not good on that load factor to HHH but nice for Portland!


Again, that's more likely due to people already having been reaccommodated at the time I checked the seat map. The next flight on Saturday shows only 12 empty seats.
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 6121
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri May 28, 2021 12:29 am

https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/st ... -33368672/

CVG back to 75-80% of pre-pandemic levels
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
bigred10k
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:35 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat May 29, 2021 3:09 pm

AirportRival wrote:
As Flyguy has already pointed out, you are wrong. There are a plethora of Pilot and MX bases at CVG from the passenger and cargo airlines already. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of them do not live near the airport but it's irrelevant because the program isn't about establishing bases or HQ's.


I disagree. Its completely relevant. One of the purposes of JobsOhio is to grow the municipal tax base -- taxes that are collected based on location of employment. So it does make a difference if the bases are in Ohio vs. Kentucky.

By your logic, Ohio should consider using JobsOhio money for other out-of-state airports that serve Ohio residents, like the Tri-State Airport. And yes, I am skeptical of using JobsOhio (Ohio taxpayer) money to subsidize an airlines route network for a period of time. These routes can easily be pulled once the subsidy runs out. So if Ohio doesn't put in other conditions, like establishing a maintenance base, which is a little more difficult to unwind, then the prospect of jobs growth and increasing the tax base is lower.

Its not a matter of being right or wrong, its really just our opinion on good use of Ohio taxpayer money. I wouldn't be opposed to it if Kentucky matches the amount of money being put in by Ohio, but Frankfort has a long history of ignoring the needs of its northern Kentucky residents.
 
doulasc
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat May 29, 2021 9:04 pm

Do you thing YNG will ever have airline service again
 
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YNGguins
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat May 29, 2021 11:23 pm

doulasc wrote:
Do you thing YNG will ever have airline service again


The Regional Chamber in town just launched a survey (a few weeks back) targeted to the business community across the Mahoning Valley and over into the Shenango Valley in W. PA. From what I gathered, they still have a portion of a SCASD grant, coupled with potential assistance from JobsOhio. From the news clippings, etc. I have come across, there may be something on the biz side of things in the works. (Perhaps the massive Ultium Battery project and Lordstown Motors project 20 mins away are a factor?) Personally however, I still think leisure is the way to go for YNG. Even with the flights out of the nearby airports, I do think if you had service to certain Florida markets 2-3x a week, they would hold there own.

Will keep you in the loop. Glad to see JobsOhio assisting the airports in the state!
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
topguncnod
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 1:46 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun May 30, 2021 1:52 am

Looks like DL loaded CVG-AUS 2x day starting in March
 
a320flyer
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun May 30, 2021 9:09 am

topguncnod wrote:
Looks like DL loaded CVG-AUS 2x day starting in March

Nice find! Quite surprising to see 2x/day, but quite exciting given there isn't much capacity on the route. Hopefully IAH and the 3rd DFW frequency return as well.

Overall that puts DL at 67 daily departures from CVG next Spring!
 
a320flyer
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun May 30, 2021 9:16 am

In other news, UE resumes LUK-BNA on June 7, once daily for now.

They're also offering LUK-PDK-JKA (gulf shores) twice a week.
 
CMHMarc787
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:09 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon May 31, 2021 9:42 pm

Nice to see mainline coming back to CMH-CLT. I just booked a trip in July that goes through CLT on an A320.

Sidenote - just returned from a weekend trip that took me through CLT. Both CMH and CLT were full of pax (CLT practically shoulder to shoulder)...getting closer to normalcy every day.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3382
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:55 am

bigred10k wrote:
By your logic, Ohio should consider using JobsOhio money for other out-of-state airports that serve Ohio residents, like the Tri-State Airport.

If Ironton, OH was the state’s second-largest metro it would absolutely make sense.

bigred10k wrote:
And yes, I am skeptical of using JobsOhio (Ohio taxpayer) money to subsidize an airlines route network for a period of time.

Certainly a reasonable position to take. Be that as it may, if they’re going to have an air service development fund it makes no sense to exclude the airport of one of Ohio’s three largest cities. CVG without a doubt is intricately tied into the economy of Southwest Ohio in a big way.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:45 am

CMHMarc787 wrote:
Nice to see mainline coming back to CMH-CLT. I just booked a trip in July that goes through CLT on an A320.

Sidenote - just returned from a weekend trip that took me through CLT. Both CMH and CLT were full of pax (CLT practically shoulder to shoulder)...getting closer to normalcy every day.


The next couple of weeks are really good for CMH upguages across the board. The switchover to the June AA schedule means not only the gain of the 320 to CLT, but the return of a 2nd daily PHX frequency (1x 319/1x 320) and a 3rd mainline frequency to DFW (going from 2x 319/2x E75 to 1x 319/2x 738/1x E75).

DL mainline to MSP returns with one of the frequencies going to a 320 on 6/5, and ATL now appears to be all 320/739 (are we going to see the 717 in CMH again?)

Even UA is getting in on the act, it appears that the second daily DEN frequency will finally return to a 319 from the current 175 starting 6/6. Also don’t forget we have new NK flights to LAX and PNS starting this month as well as a significant bump in WN frequencies. Will be great to see so much mainline metal back at CMH!
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5379
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:37 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
CMHMarc787 wrote:
Nice to see mainline coming back to CMH-CLT. I just booked a trip in July that goes through CLT on an A320.

Sidenote - just returned from a weekend trip that took me through CLT. Both CMH and CLT were full of pax (CLT practically shoulder to shoulder)...getting closer to normalcy every day.


The next couple of weeks are really good for CMH upguages across the board. The switchover to the June AA schedule means not only the gain of the 320 to CLT, but the return of a 2nd daily PHX frequency (1x 319/1x 320) and a 3rd mainline frequency to DFW (going from 2x 319/2x E75 to 1x 319/2x 738/1x E75).

DL mainline to MSP returns with one of the frequencies going to a 320 on 6/5, and ATL now appears to be all 320/739 (are we going to see the 717 in CMH again?)

Even UA is getting in on the act, it appears that the second daily DEN frequency will finally return to a 319 from the current 175 starting 6/6. Also don’t forget we have new NK flights to LAX and PNS starting this month as well as a significant bump in WN frequencies. Will be great to see so much mainline metal back at CMH!


CMH-CLT also will have an afternoon 319 on it in addition to the 320. The uptick in mainline alone makes me want to consider flying them again.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:58 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
CMHMarc787 wrote:
Nice to see mainline coming back to CMH-CLT. I just booked a trip in July that goes through CLT on an A320.

Sidenote - just returned from a weekend trip that took me through CLT. Both CMH and CLT were full of pax (CLT practically shoulder to shoulder)...getting closer to normalcy every day.


The next couple of weeks are really good for CMH upguages across the board. The switchover to the June AA schedule means not only the gain of the 320 to CLT, but the return of a 2nd daily PHX frequency (1x 319/1x 320) and a 3rd mainline frequency to DFW (going from 2x 319/2x E75 to 1x 319/2x 738/1x E75).

DL mainline to MSP returns with one of the frequencies going to a 320 on 6/5, and ATL now appears to be all 320/739 (are we going to see the 717 in CMH again?)

Even UA is getting in on the act, it appears that the second daily DEN frequency will finally return to a 319 from the current 175 starting 6/6. Also don’t forget we have new NK flights to LAX and PNS starting this month as well as a significant bump in WN frequencies. Will be great to see so much mainline metal back at CMH!


CMH-CLT also will have an afternoon 319 on it in addition to the 320. The uptick in mainline alone makes me want to consider flying them again.


Yes thank you DeltaRules, I neglected to include the afternoon CLT mainline flight as well. MIA goes all 175 too so no more lengthy ERJ legs to South Florida. I have 2 upcoming AA flights scheduled and the fact that all outbound and inbound CMH legs will be mainline is a big plus to consider when booking, especially when traveling with my wife and child, since 3x3 seating means we can all sit together.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4532
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:29 pm

The lack of daily nonstop service to PHX from CVG is a huge hole with most of the other major Midwestern markets having daily nonstop service to PHX.

CVG currently only has Saturday-only nonstop service to PHX on WN and nonstop service to AZA on G4 on Mondays and Fridays.

Here were the average PDEW's on CVG-PHX/AZA in 2019:
Q1 2019 - 291
Q2 2019 - 271
Q3 2019 - 207
Q4 2019 - 258
Year - 257

AA CVG-PHX nonstop service is currently scheduled to resume on 8/17/2021, but CVG could likely support daily nonstop service on both AA and WN on a year-round basis if demand were at 2019 levels with the amount of O&D demand that was there between CVG and PHX/AZA in 2019. Both AA and WN are also able to offer connections to Vegas and Southern California from CVG through PHX on WN.

F9 re-adding CVG-PHX nonstop service might also be a possibility with F9 still serving PHX nonstop from some markets other than DEN such as ATL, ORD, CLE, COS, LAS, OAK, ONT, MCO, SMF, SLC, and SAN. F9 was also getting average load factors of 84.88% on CVG-PHX in 2019.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4532
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:35 pm

a320flyer wrote:
topguncnod wrote:
Looks like DL loaded CVG-AUS 2x day starting in March

Nice find! Quite surprising to see 2x/day, but quite exciting given there isn't much capacity on the route.


One reason why DL re-added CVG-AUS back into the schedule is that there was the possibility of a competitor such as WN adding CVG-AUS nonstop service if CVG-AUS nonstop service wasn't re-added by DL.

CVG-AUS also had enough demand for nonstop service on DL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic with the PDEW of CVG-AUS being 123 passengers/day in 2019 and with the average load factor of DL CVG-AUS being 84.51% in 2019.
 
KarlB737
Posts: 2938
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:56 pm

Courtesy: Aviation Pros

Amazon Hiring at Cincinnati Airport After More Flights Added from CVG

https://www.aviationpros.com/airports/news/21224903/amazon-hiring-at-cincinnati-airport-after-more-flights-added-from-cvg
 
Robert16627
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:52 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:07 pm

Does anyone know what is on the Volga Dnepr Antonov 124 thats headed to LCK from Anchorage? VI4664
 
CMHARJ
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:28 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:02 pm

a320flyer wrote:
Delta has loaded a 767 frequency on CVG-ATL beginning July 7. This is the first time we've had a regularly scheduled domestic widebody route in a long time!


Awesome news to hear about CVG with the 767. Hypothetically, if CMH was ever to get widebody service ( I know it's very unrealistic), but could DL accommodate a widebody at CMH? Terminal C isn't the most spacious area. Would they even be able to push back and turn a 767 in that apron area?
 
jbmitt
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:59 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:27 am

CMHARJ wrote:
a320flyer wrote:
Delta has loaded a 767 frequency on CVG-ATL beginning July 7. This is the first time we've had a regularly scheduled domestic widebody route in a long time!


Awesome news to hear about CVG with the 767. Hypothetically, if CMH was ever to get widebody service ( I know it's very unrealistic), but could DL accommodate a widebody at CMH? Terminal C isn't the most spacious area. Would they even be able to push back and turn a 767 in that apron area?


767s and larger have operated out of CMH. I don’t know how the gates are currently configured, but it wouldn’t take much work to reconfigure parking positions as needed.

There are a couple of places that a 767 is too wide to taxi. Between taxiways D3 and D4 and J and K on the ramp, but there are other areas that can accommodate it.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5379
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:52 am

jbmitt wrote:
CMHARJ wrote:
a320flyer wrote:
Delta has loaded a 767 frequency on CVG-ATL beginning July 7. This is the first time we've had a regularly scheduled domestic widebody route in a long time!


Awesome news to hear about CVG with the 767. Hypothetically, if CMH was ever to get widebody service ( I know it's very unrealistic), but could DL accommodate a widebody at CMH? Terminal C isn't the most spacious area. Would they even be able to push back and turn a 767 in that apron area?


767s and larger have operated out of CMH. I don’t know how the gates are currently configured, but it wouldn’t take much work to reconfigure parking positions as needed.

There are a couple of places that a 767 is too wide to taxi. Between taxiways D3 and D4 and J and K on the ramp, but there are other areas that can accommodate it.


A friend who worked for DL from the late '90s until COVID said there was talk of 767 service, presumably to ATL, pre-9/11. As far fetched as it may seem, keep in mind these were the days they'd often RON 2 ATL 757s (plus a 3rd to CVG) and a bunch of midsize cities saw heavies.

There was an RFP for jetways at CMH and LCK a few years ago which gave the summary of what aircraft were meant to be accommodated at which gates and, according to that, C56 can handle a 767.: https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... -final.pdf

Another thing to remember is any 767 service to CMH these days would almost certainly be TATL, requiring FIS at Gate C46 (which used to/might still have a 767 parking line), which can handle clear up to a 747; I seem to remember the hold room for that gate being fairly large. (B34 and C47 are also listed as able to handle 767s, but I know Omni once parked a Vacation Express charter at B35.)
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2372
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:15 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
jbmitt wrote:
CMHARJ wrote:

Awesome news to hear about CVG with the 767. Hypothetically, if CMH was ever to get widebody service ( I know it's very unrealistic), but could DL accommodate a widebody at CMH? Terminal C isn't the most spacious area. Would they even be able to push back and turn a 767 in that apron area?


767s and larger have operated out of CMH. I don’t know how the gates are currently configured, but it wouldn’t take much work to reconfigure parking positions as needed.

There are a couple of places that a 767 is too wide to taxi. Between taxiways D3 and D4 and J and K on the ramp, but there are other areas that can accommodate it.


A friend who worked for DL from the late '90s until COVID said there was talk of 767 service, presumably to ATL, pre-9/11. As far fetched as it may seem, keep in mind these were the days they'd often RON 2 ATL 757s (plus a 3rd to CVG) and a bunch of midsize cities saw heavies.

There was an RFP for jetways at CMH and LCK a few years ago which gave the summary of what aircraft were meant to be accommodated at which gates and, according to that, C56 can handle a 767.: https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... -final.pdf

Another thing to remember is any 767 service to CMH these days would almost certainly be TATL, requiring FIS at Gate C46 (which used to/might still have a 767 parking line), which can handle clear up to a 747; I seem to remember the hold room for that gate being fairly large. (B34 and C47 are also listed as able to handle 767s, but I know Omni once parked a Vacation Express charter at B35.)


I recall as well there being talk of DL 767s to CMH before 9/11. As mentioned, C56 had a 767 stop mark at one point. That gate hasn't been redrawn, that I know of, so hypothetically it should still be able to park one. That being said, the only chance to see one parked there nowadays would be in the form of a diversion or charter.

So B34, C47, and C56 are the only gates widebody-capable nowadays? I think at one point all the B Con gates could accommodate widebodies. The only ones I remember in somewhat recent memory are UA using B29 to park a 744 and a 772, NW parking a 742 at B36, and ATA L1011s at B23. I recall a 747 parking at A2 once way in the past as well when it was used for charter flights.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:55 pm

The big digital billboard on the CMH Fairfield/Marriott as you leave the terminal is now displaying a “Welcome to Columbus Breeze” billboard as part of the rotation. First Breeze signage I’ve seen.
 
WWads
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:18 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:31 pm

Lol Delta is going nuclear against AA on CVG-BOS. They loaded 5x daily A220s in starting in September, while AA starts the route in November with 3x E175s.

I didn't think they had it in them to defend turf at CVG at this point.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4317
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:55 pm

WWads wrote:
Lol Delta is going nuclear against AA on CVG-BOS. They loaded 5x daily A220s in starting in September, while AA starts the route in November with 3x E175s.

I didn't think they had it in them to defend turf at CVG at this point.


I’m seeing 5x but 717 not A220
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:04 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
WWads wrote:
Lol Delta is going nuclear against AA on CVG-BOS. They loaded 5x daily A220s in starting in September, while AA starts the route in November with 3x E175s.

I didn't think they had it in them to defend turf at CVG at this point.


I’m seeing 5x but 717 not A220


September looks to be 5x 717. From October 4 it's 5x A220-100s.
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1901
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:41 pm

WWads wrote:
Lol Delta is going nuclear against AA on CVG-BOS. They loaded 5x daily A220s in starting in September, while AA starts the route in November with 3x E175s.

I didn't think they had it in them to defend turf at CVG at this point.

I’m not that surprised. It was a monopoly route and fares were always sky high.

On a separate note, my DAY-MSP flight was canceled in July. Looks like it goes down to 4x weekly. On the plus side 3 of 4 DL flights DAY-ATL are mainline (717) in July.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6121
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:37 am

Ishrion wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
WWads wrote:
Lol Delta is going nuclear against AA on CVG-BOS. They loaded 5x daily A220s in starting in September, while AA starts the route in November with 3x E175s.

I didn't think they had it in them to defend turf at CVG at this point.


I’m seeing 5x but 717 not A220


September looks to be 5x 717. From October 4 it's 5x A220-100s.


It was scheduled 5x B717 pre-covid and pre-AA. The A220 may be defensive, but the capacity was planned for a while.

From this thread last year, discussed on pages 1 & 2:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437963&hilit=rest+of+ohio+2020
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
cmhman
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:26 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:17 pm

Bookings on all BZ flights from CMH aren’t looking good if seat maps are to be believed. I think in part people have already made plans this summer and are either flying someone else or still committed to driving.

Thoughts?
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1901
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:31 pm

cmhman wrote:
Bookings on all BZ flights from CMH aren’t looking good if seat maps are to be believed. I think in part people have already made plans this summer and are either flying someone else or still committed to driving.

Thoughts?

I think there is probably a lot of that. Just looking at the destinations from CMH, BDL seems like more of a business market, CHS and ORF are certainly driveable for a summer beach vacation (and I will be somewhat surprised if ORF lasts long term), and TPA and MSY seem like miserable places to go in the summer (although I am sure many people do).
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4317
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:56 pm

Two interesting notes from the biz journal.

1. Delta Air Lines’ flight from Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport to Paris is scheduled to return starting Sept. 8

Not sure if I this actually happens but at least it is promising.


2. When it comes to the rest of Delta’s network at CVG, officials previously projected service to Toronto may return by the fall, with San Francisco, Kansas City, St. Louis and Hartford, Conn., returning in 2022.

I figured STL/MCI/BDL were gone for good, but maybe not?

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... eturn.html
 
a320flyer
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:12 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Two interesting notes from the biz journal.

1. Delta Air Lines’ flight from Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport to Paris is scheduled to return starting Sept. 8

Not sure if I this actually happens but at least it is promising.


2. When it comes to the rest of Delta’s network at CVG, officials previously projected service to Toronto may return by the fall, with San Francisco, Kansas City, St. Louis and Hartford, Conn., returning in 2022.

I figured STL/MCI/BDL were gone for good, but maybe not?

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... eturn.html

What I've heard is DL plans on resuming all of the pre-covid routes from CVG. Most will be in 2022 spring/summer though.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:20 am

cledaybuck wrote:
cmhman wrote:
Bookings on all BZ flights from CMH aren’t looking good if seat maps are to be believed. I think in part people have already made plans this summer and are either flying someone else or still committed to driving.

Thoughts?

I think there is probably a lot of that. Just looking at the destinations from CMH, BDL seems like more of a business market, CHS and ORF are certainly driveable for a summer beach vacation (and I will be somewhat surprised if ORF lasts long term), and TPA and MSY seem like miserable places to go in the summer (although I am sure many people do).


Not to mention going up against well established competitors on every route except BDL. Has anyone seen any marketing for the new flights? They better be ready to wait it out until word spreads organically if they’re just counting on earned media hype.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:19 am

Tomorrow 6/9 at approximately 11:45am pacific NK 888 (A320 N634NK) will depart LAX. When it lands at CMH at around 7:15 eastern it will reconnect the two cities with a direct flight for the first time since we lost this route to the pandemic early last year.

If seat maps are to be believed load factor will be almost 85% with the “big front seats” sold out. Not too shabby at all. The return flight departing an hour later is showing slightly less full at 70% LF (once again NK’s version of “first class” is sold out).

From my perspective, ideally the route will return on AA or DL as well once business traffic recovers. However, it is really good to have a nonstop option back and I am very much hoping this route is as much a success for NK as it seems the rest of their rapid CMH expansion has been.
 
Moonship
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:29 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:05 am

CMHtraveler wrote:
Tomorrow 6/9 at approximately 11:45am pacific NK 888 (A320 N634NK) will depart LAX. When it lands at CMH at around 7:15 eastern it will reconnect the two cities with a direct flight for the first time since we lost this route to the pandemic early last year.

If seat maps are to be believed load factor will be almost 85% with the “big front seats” sold out. Not too shabby at all. The return flight departing an hour later is showing slightly less full at 70% LF (once again NK’s version of “first class” is sold out).

From my perspective, ideally the route will return on AA or DL as well once business traffic recovers. However, it is really good to have a nonstop option back and I am very much hoping this route is as much a success for NK as it seems the rest of their rapid CMH expansion has been.
Day of departure numbers LAX-CMH 86%, CMH-LAX 98%! Great start. Keep in mind that seat maps are grossly unreliable for ULCC's as those who don't purchase seat assignments in advanced don't show until check-in.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:27 pm

Moonship wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
Tomorrow 6/9 at approximately 11:45am pacific NK 888 (A320 N634NK) will depart LAX. When it lands at CMH at around 7:15 eastern it will reconnect the two cities with a direct flight for the first time since we lost this route to the pandemic early last year.

If seat maps are to be believed load factor will be almost 85% with the “big front seats” sold out. Not too shabby at all. The return flight departing an hour later is showing slightly less full at 70% LF (once again NK’s version of “first class” is sold out).

From my perspective, ideally the route will return on AA or DL as well once business traffic recovers. However, it is really good to have a nonstop option back and I am very much hoping this route is as much a success for NK as it seems the rest of their rapid CMH expansion has been.
Day of departure numbers LAX-CMH 86%, CMH-LAX 98%! Great start. Keep in mind that seat maps are grossly unreliable for ULCC's as those who don't purchase seat assignments in advanced don't show until check-in.


Wow! Thanks for the correction. Great start indeed. Learned something new today re: ULCCs/seat maps too. Side note; I greatly appreciate NK allowing customers to view seat maps before selecting a flight. I think it’s much later in the booking process on the legacies.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1901
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:15 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
Moonship wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
Tomorrow 6/9 at approximately 11:45am pacific NK 888 (A320 N634NK) will depart LAX. When it lands at CMH at around 7:15 eastern it will reconnect the two cities with a direct flight for the first time since we lost this route to the pandemic early last year.

If seat maps are to be believed load factor will be almost 85% with the “big front seats” sold out. Not too shabby at all. The return flight departing an hour later is showing slightly less full at 70% LF (once again NK’s version of “first class” is sold out).

From my perspective, ideally the route will return on AA or DL as well once business traffic recovers. However, it is really good to have a nonstop option back and I am very much hoping this route is as much a success for NK as it seems the rest of their rapid CMH expansion has been.
Day of departure numbers LAX-CMH 86%, CMH-LAX 98%! Great start. Keep in mind that seat maps are grossly unreliable for ULCC's as those who don't purchase seat assignments in advanced don't show until check-in.


Wow! Thanks for the correction. Great start indeed. Learned something new today re: ULCCs/seat maps too. Side note; I greatly appreciate NK allowing customers to view seat maps before selecting a flight. I think it’s much later in the booking process on the legacies.

All the legacies let you view seat maps before selecting a flight. It is much later on the other ULCC's like F9 and G4. On WN, it's not until you get on the plane :D
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:23 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
Moonship wrote:
Day of departure numbers LAX-CMH 86%, CMH-LAX 98%! Great start. Keep in mind that seat maps are grossly unreliable for ULCC's as those who don't purchase seat assignments in advanced don't show until check-in.


Wow! Thanks for the correction. Great start indeed. Learned something new today re: ULCCs/seat maps too. Side note; I greatly appreciate NK allowing customers to view seat maps before selecting a flight. I think it’s much later in the booking process on the legacies.

All the legacies let you view seat maps before selecting a flight. It is much later on the other ULCC's like F9 and G4. On WN, it's not until you get on the plane :D


Nothing like being wrong twice within two posts. Thanks! I could swear when booking on AA you have to actually select the flights and then once you do you can select seats. :white:
 
a320flyer
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:09 pm

AA is adding 2x/day CVG-AUS on Sept 8, I'm sure DL will push forward the start date of CVG-AUS in short order...
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:12 pm

a320flyer wrote:
AA is adding 2x/day CVG-AUS on Sept 8, I'm sure DL will push forward the start date of CVG-AUS in short order...
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx


Additionally WN has added CMH-AUS, but I can only find the nonstops around the Christmas and New Years holidays, so maybe this is just a peak flying add for now?

https://twitter.com/ishriona/status/140 ... 71718?s=21

Edit: Several new/returning routes for CMH and CVG coming this fall:

https://wieck-swa-production.s3.amazona ... ension.pdf
 
CMHMarc787
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:09 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:01 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
a320flyer wrote:
AA is adding 2x/day CVG-AUS on Sept 8, I'm sure DL will push forward the start date of CVG-AUS in short order...
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx


Additionally WN has added CMH-AUS, but I can only find the nonstops around the Christmas and New Years holidays, so maybe this is just a peak flying add for now?

https://twitter.com/ishriona/status/140 ... 71718?s=21

Edit: Several new/returning routes for CMH and CVG coming this fall:

https://wieck-swa-production.s3.amazona ... ension.pdf


I noticed that CMH-MIA on WN is returning? Did I miss them flying this route pre-covid?

Also, I'm a little surprised that AA didn't include CMH on their AUS expansion.
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:06 pm

CMHMarc787 wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
a320flyer wrote:
AA is adding 2x/day CVG-AUS on Sept 8, I'm sure DL will push forward the start date of CVG-AUS in short order...
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx


Additionally WN has added CMH-AUS, but I can only find the nonstops around the Christmas and New Years holidays, so maybe this is just a peak flying add for now?

https://twitter.com/ishriona/status/140 ... 71718?s=21

Edit: Several new/returning routes for CMH and CVG coming this fall:

https://wieck-swa-production.s3.amazona ... ension.pdf


I noticed that CMH-MIA on WN is returning? Did I miss them flying this route pre-covid?

Also, I'm a little surprised that AA didn't include CMH on their AUS expansion.
WN didn’t fly to MIA before Covid so it’s not a returning route and it was extended from a Summer service

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