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cosyr
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:36 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
No gate will be on the north side of the south finger. B80-95. B81, 83, 85, 87, 89, 91 are gone permanenty. 93 is still in service but will go away once the north finger is complete.

There will be gates on the north and south sides of the north finger. These will be gates B62-B71

South: B62, 64, 66, 68, 70 (E175 and smaller)
North: B63, 65, 67, 69, 71 (B739 and smaller)

B57, 59, 61 are currently ground load gates that will be renovated into jet bridge gates once the north finger opens.

The south finger will remain CR7 and smaller on the south side; unchanged.

Interesting. I know there is value in adding more mainline gates, but with the ground load gates that were demolished and these south finger gates going away, is there any actual net positive in overall number of gates, or is just more gate space for mainline, now that UA plans less 50 seat flying?

I wonder if UA would end up using some of those new commuter gates on C.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:25 pm

No. The plan has always been once this “expansion” is complete that United would not gain any net gates on the B concourse. We had 69 gates before, and we will have 69 after. Growth is on A West.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:26 pm

cosyr wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
No gate will be on the north side of the south finger. B80-95. B81, 83, 85, 87, 89, 91 are gone permanenty. 93 is still in service but will go away once the north finger is complete.

There will be gates on the north and south sides of the north finger. These will be gates B62-B71

South: B62, 64, 66, 68, 70 (E175 and smaller)
North: B63, 65, 67, 69, 71 (B739 and smaller)

B57, 59, 61 are currently ground load gates that will be renovated into jet bridge gates once the north finger opens.

The south finger will remain CR7 and smaller on the south side; unchanged.

Interesting. I know there is value in adding more mainline gates, but with the ground load gates that were demolished and these south finger gates going away, is there any actual net positive in overall number of gates, or is just more gate space for mainline, now that UA plans less 50 seat flying?

I wonder if UA would end up using some of those new commuter gates on C.


On B Concourse there is really no gate growth, most of that will come from the 23 new gates on A. Any of the new gates should be able to accommodate RJs as well. The commuter section on C will be quite small, really just enough room for Boutique, Denver Air, and Southern.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:34 pm

The airport also had another meeting with city council last night for additional concessions coming to the expansions, they are listed below.

A West Subcore 2, Market 5280, convenience store
Image

A West Subcore 3, WH Smith, convenience store
Image

B West Subcore 3, River North News, convenience store
Image

A West Subcore 3, Peet's Coffee, Tacos Tequila Whiskey, Elway's Taproom & Grill
Image

Link to meeting: https://denver.legistar.com/MeetingDetail.aspx?ID=908420&GUID=EC8DA6F3-B03E-445B-A415-9D4571AE4A05&Options=&Search=
 
AndoAv8R
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:39 pm

I miss the old days of just being happy steak escape was out on A. Are thy even going to have fast food like Mcdonalds and Panda Express in the terminal when the remodel is done?
 
CALMSP
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:54 am

AndoAv8R wrote:
I miss the old days of just being happy steak escape was out on A. Are thy even going to have fast food like Mcdonalds and Panda Express in the terminal when the remodel is done?


agreed, so many airport seem to be getting away from the fast options, and instead offer $19 hamburgers in a sit down environment.
 
Wednesdayite
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:09 am

If only the WH Smith would sell Irn Bru and proper Cadbury’s chocolate.
 
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cosyr
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:10 pm

CALMSP wrote:
AndoAv8R wrote:
I miss the old days of just being happy steak escape was out on A. Are thy even going to have fast food like Mcdonalds and Panda Express in the terminal when the remodel is done?


agreed, so many airport seem to be getting away from the fast options, and instead offer $19 hamburgers in a sit down environment.

I assume its because you don't know what price to expect from a random airport restaurant that isn't a normal chain. Costs in airport are so high that people get angry about $13 McDonald's hamburgers. I agree though, the fast predictable options are lacking, especially when you have tight connections.
 
airbazar
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:23 pm

cosyr wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
AndoAv8R wrote:
I miss the old days of just being happy steak escape was out on A. Are thy even going to have fast food like Mcdonalds and Panda Express in the terminal when the remodel is done?


agreed, so many airport seem to be getting away from the fast options, and instead offer $19 hamburgers in a sit down environment.

I assume its because you don't know what price to expect from a random airport restaurant that isn't a normal chain. Costs in airport are so high that people get angry about $13 McDonald's hamburgers. I agree though, the fast predictable options are lacking, especially when you have tight connections.


Agree. I'll gladly pay for a $19 hamburger (and a pint of beer), at a sit down restaurant over a $13 sandwich at McD's or Chick-fil-a. Beer > hamburger :D
 
airlinewatcher1
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:24 pm

Any word on the new gate locations for AA, DL, F9 and others?
 
DENfan
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:01 pm

airlinewatcher1 wrote:
Any word on the new gate locations for AA, DL, F9 and others?


AA moving to C and new Admirals Club on C will open around the time of the move.
 
CALMSP
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:15 pm

DENfan wrote:
airlinewatcher1 wrote:
Any word on the new gate locations for AA, DL, F9 and others?


AA moving to C and new Admirals Club on C will open around the time of the move.


I didn't know they were installing an AC on the new core on C east.
 
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cosyr
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:03 pm

DENfan wrote:
airlinewatcher1 wrote:
Any word on the new gate locations for AA, DL, F9 and others?


AA moving to C and new Admirals Club on C will open around the time of the move.

I still think it is crazy to be moving primarily O&D carriers off of A. Nearly 100% of AA's and DL's pax will have to ride the train. If UA could take new gates on C, rather than A, connecting pax would be riding primarily between B & C, which would have lighter loads from the people who have exited on A or B.

I know that's not going to happen, but moving non-hub carriers to C doesn't reduce any traffic on the trains and guarantees the most people possible have to use it. Hopefully UA will strategically plan for it's heaviest O&D routes to fly out of A, but many people will still hop on the train to B before even checking which gate their flight is at.
 
jplatts
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:25 pm

cosyr wrote:
I still think it is crazy to be moving primarily O&D carriers off of A. Nearly 100% of AA's and DL's pax will have to ride the train. If UA could take new gates on C, rather than A, connecting pax would be riding primarily between B & C, which would have lighter loads from the people who have exited on A or B.

I know that's not going to happen, but moving non-hub carriers to C doesn't reduce any traffic on the trains and guarantees the most people possible have to use it. Hopefully UA will strategically plan for it's heaviest O&D routes to fly out of A, but many people will still hop on the train to B before even checking which gate their flight is at.


I had previously mentioned the possibility of adding underground walkways between the concourses at DEN as fewer passengers would have to take the train if underground walkways are added at DEN.

It would also actually be shorter for passengers to walk to the west end of concourse B from the west end of concourse A at DEN than for a passenger to walk to the train from the west end of concourse A, take the train, and walk back to the west end of concourse B from the train if an underground walkway connecting the west end of concourses A and B is added at DEN.
 
werba
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:34 pm

For everyone who has an idea to improve the trains and or providing some redundancy to them DEN wants to hear from you!

https://www.flydenver.com/sites/default ... %20RFI.pdf
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:52 pm

cosyr wrote:
DENfan wrote:
airlinewatcher1 wrote:
Any word on the new gate locations for AA, DL, F9 and others?


AA moving to C and new Admirals Club on C will open around the time of the move.

I still think it is crazy to be moving primarily O&D carriers off of A. Nearly 100% of AA's and DL's pax will have to ride the train. If UA could take new gates on C, rather than A, connecting pax would be riding primarily between B & C, which would have lighter loads from the people who have exited on A or B.

I know that's not going to happen, but moving non-hub carriers to C doesn't reduce any traffic on the trains and guarantees the most people possible have to use it. Hopefully UA will strategically plan for it's heaviest O&D routes to fly out of A, but many people will still hop on the train to B before even checking which gate their flight is at.


With AA moving to C, Alaska and Spirit would move over to A Concourse. Delta would remain on A as well. It is not great, but UA needs the gates on A for the international capability. This should simplify their operation as they would no longer have to tow aircraft from A -> B.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:11 pm

A West Photo Update, similar to C Concourse, steady progress towards opening next year, as far as I can tell they have not started construction on a UA club. Based on the slow speed of construction at the airport, I would estimate a club to take 12-18 months to complete.

Starting from the west end, the patio is starting to come together.
Image

The farthest west interior section
Image

Work continuing on the subcores, flooring and conveyances.
Image

The center section, utility and conveyance construction continues.
Image

Glass wall install on the FIS corridor.
Image
 
KDAL
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:03 pm

How exactly is AA going to C? Aren't all the gates spoken for between WN, NK, and AS? Besides the one common use gate.

Also, are there any updates on the WN hangar?
 
n562wn
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:23 pm

KDAL wrote:
How exactly is AA going to C? Aren't all the gates spoken for between WN, NK, and AS? Besides the one common use gate.

Also, are there any updates on the WN hangar?

Yeah.. That’s news to me too (if accurate). Also I’m not sure where they’d put an Admirals club in C concourse when they just opened a new Centurion lounge towards the east side of C. from what I’ve seen first hand of the construction, there’s nowhere that would make sense. But I’ve been wrong before…
 
airbazar
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:33 pm

cosyr wrote:
DENfan wrote:
airlinewatcher1 wrote:
Any word on the new gate locations for AA, DL, F9 and others?


AA moving to C and new Admirals Club on C will open around the time of the move.

I still think it is crazy to be moving primarily O&D carriers off of A. Nearly 100% of AA's and DL's pax will have to ride the train. If UA could take new gates on C, rather than A, connecting pax would be riding primarily between B & C, which would have lighter loads from the people who have exited on A or B.

I know that's not going to happen, but moving non-hub carriers to C doesn't reduce any traffic on the trains and guarantees the most people possible have to use it. Hopefully UA will strategically plan for it's heaviest O&D routes to fly out of A, but many people will still hop on the train to B before even checking which gate their flight is at.


Maybe this?
adv40624 wrote:
When the airport first opened in 1995, 65% of the passengers connected in Denver. Today, that number is 65% OD and only 35% connecting.

I suspect that even the hub carriers have a high percentage of O&D.
 
KDAL
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:54 pm

n562wn wrote:
KDAL wrote:
How exactly is AA going to C? Aren't all the gates spoken for between WN, NK, and AS? Besides the one common use gate.

Also, are there any updates on the WN hangar?

Yeah.. That’s news to me too (if accurate). Also I’m not sure where they’d put an Admirals club in C concourse when they just opened a new Centurion lounge towards the east side of C. from what I’ve seen first hand of the construction, there’s nowhere that would make sense. But I’ve been wrong before…

Everything I can find shows WN is still getting their 40 gates on C. A previous poster said they were kicking AS and NK to A, but wouldn't that mean that they won't get the extra gates that they wanted?
 
DENfan
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:05 pm

n562wn wrote:
KDAL wrote:
How exactly is AA going to C?


Sorry don’t have any details on AA gates or location of new AC but info comes direct from current AC agents. They seemed most happy to have rest room facilities inside lounge, not shared w DL like now.
Last edited by DENfan on Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:06 pm

KDAL wrote:
How exactly is AA going to C? Aren't all the gates spoken for between WN, NK, and AS? Besides the one common use gate.

Also, are there any updates on the WN hangar?


AS and NK would move to A Concourse. After the expansion there would be 5 gates on C that WN does not have which would go to AA, they currently have 5 gates on A. I believe the gates are 30,32,34,36,38 if the lease has not changed from what was signed last March. If that is the case the could build a club in the west subcore or in the center core on the mezzanine level. Once Southwest moves their office space out of center core to the new construction there will be plenty of space on the mezzanine level of center core. The airport wants to put concessions up there, but some space could be reserved for club space.

As far the hangar, the last I heard it should be opening Q1 next year. Most of the paving for the ramp is complete, and I have heard the interior was pretty much done.
 
n562wn
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:30 pm

DEN1895 wrote:
KDAL wrote:
How exactly is AA going to C? Aren't all the gates spoken for between WN, NK, and AS? Besides the one common use gate.

Also, are there any updates on the WN hangar?


AS and NK would move to A Concourse. After the expansion there would be 5 gates on C that WN does not have which would go to AA, they currently have 5 gates on A. I believe the gates are 30,32,34,36,38 if the lease has not changed from what was signed last March. If that is the case the could build a club in the west subcore or in the center core on the mezzanine level. Once Southwest moves their office space out of center core to the new construction there will be plenty of space on the mezzanine level of center core. The airport wants to put concessions up there, but some space could be reserved for club space.

As far the hangar, the last I heard it should be opening Q1 next year. Most of the paving for the ramp is complete, and I have heard the interior was pretty much done.

Interesting. I guess I could see that happening and that makes a bit more sense although I find it interesting WN would give up gates in that close proximity to the center of the concourse. Then again, that’s where Alaska and United’s extra gates are. Furthermore, Delta was fairly close to the center of C concourse when they were there as well, so I guess it’s not that unprecedented.

I’ve heard about WN moving our pilot, FA lounge and ops, but haven’t heard any confirmation as such. If so, that would align with what is suggested in this thread.

All that being said, extra concessions and food options on the mezzanine level are more than welcome in my opinion.

It’ll be interesting to see how it all shakes it. I’m probably most interested in what I’m the world WN has plans for with 16 additional gates.
 
KDAL
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:54 pm

DEN1895 wrote:
KDAL wrote:
How exactly is AA going to C? Aren't all the gates spoken for between WN, NK, and AS? Besides the one common use gate.

Also, are there any updates on the WN hangar?


AS and NK would move to A Concourse. After the expansion there would be 5 gates on C that WN does not have which would go to AA, they currently have 5 gates on A. I believe the gates are 30,32,34,36,38 if the lease has not changed from what was signed last March. If that is the case the could build a club in the west subcore or in the center core on the mezzanine level. Once Southwest moves their office space out of center core to the new construction there will be plenty of space on the mezzanine level of center core. The airport wants to put concessions up there, but some space could be reserved for club space.

As far the hangar, the last I heard it should be opening Q1 next year. Most of the paving for the ramp is complete, and I have heard the interior was pretty much done.

That makes sense. I assume that means the city is no longer going to have a common use gate on C? It would also lead me to believe that NK isn't getting the extra two gates they wanted, since it wouldn't make much sense to move AA to C if it wasn't going to open up at least most of those 5 gates.

Thanks for the info on that and the hangar. I hadn't seen any pictures of it recently so I wasn't sure if there were any visible changes over the past few months.
 
AAguy1992
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:22 am

AA isn't moving to C, the just built an Admirals Club in A, and with that said, they moved to A 4 years ago to be closer to BA and now JetBlue, makes sense to move Alaska to A, Thank you!
 
khaba
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:43 am

did something new happen with the A club? It was there when I was with BA and shared with USO. the official word I heard is AA is moving to C, taking the south C 30 gates as stated up thread. after all, DIA doesn't like having an airline monopolizing a concourse. OO and UA are a technicality for B.

WN has plenty of new room with their ramp level office renovation in the center core, I'm also aware that the plan is to move mezz offices to the new core.

16 new WN gates will go far toward the goal of 300+ daily departures for sure.
 
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theAviationGeek
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:24 pm

I noticed on Page 147 of United's Contract that there is a United Club Lite planned just inside the B East addition (between B61 and B63). Is this still planned and will it open with the opening of the B East extension? Does United have any other United Club Lites?

Link to document: https://denver.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=5023244&GUID=D2E493EC-F3FA-4EBE-9BE1-504B6F23B2E5&Options=ID|Text|&Search=united+airlines

Ryan
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:12 am

theAviationGeek wrote:
I noticed on Page 147 of United's Contract that there is a United Club Lite planned just inside the B East addition (between B61 and B63). Is this still planned and will it open with the opening of the B East extension? Does United have any other United Club Lites?

Link to document: https://denver.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=5023244&GUID=D2E493EC-F3FA-4EBE-9BE1-504B6F23B2E5&Options=ID|Text|&Search=united+airlines

Ryan


To not repost the same picture, post 744 on the previous page has a picture of the pop up club, it opened a little while ago.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:31 am

theAviationGeek wrote:
I noticed on Page 147 of United's Contract that there is a United Club Lite planned just inside the B East addition (between B61 and B63). Is this still planned and will it open with the opening of the B East extension? Does United have any other United Club Lites?

Link to document: https://denver.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=5023244&GUID=D2E493EC-F3FA-4EBE-9BE1-504B6F23B2E5&Options=ID|Text|&Search=united+airlines

Ryan


Also, I don't know if you made it to the exhibits at the end, but there were pictures of a club that will also be in the new expansion.
Image
Image

Picture of it under construction
Image
 
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cosyr
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:49 am

DEN1895 wrote:
theAviationGeek wrote:
I noticed on Page 147 of United's Contract that there is a United Club Lite planned just inside the B East addition (between B61 and B63). Is this still planned and will it open with the opening of the B East extension? Does United have any other United Club Lites?

Link to document: https://denver.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=5023244&GUID=D2E493EC-F3FA-4EBE-9BE1-504B6F23B2E5&Options=ID|Text|&Search=united+airlines

Ryan


Also, I don't know if you made it to the exhibits at the end, but there were pictures of a club that will also be in the new expansion.
Image
Image

Picture of it under construction
Image

Is this a new concept? This has to be the smallest United Club anywhere, including the pop up clubs at EWR. That is about the size of the USAir club that used to be in SYR or BUF in the 80's/90's.
 
CALMSP
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:09 am

AAguy1992 wrote:
AA isn't moving to C, the just built an Admirals Club in A, and with that said, they moved to A 4 years ago to be closer to BA and now JetBlue, makes sense to move Alaska to A, Thank you!


AA is moving to C in September’22 with 5 gates on the northwest side.
 
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theAviationGeek
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:44 am

DEN1895 wrote:
theAviationGeek wrote:
I noticed on Page 147 of United's Contract that there is a United Club Lite planned just inside the B East addition (between B61 and B63).


Also, I don't know if you made it to the exhibits at the end, but there were pictures of a club that will also be in the new expansion.


The reference to page 147 was to the drawing in the contract that made me curious. I appreciate the pics of it under construction.

Ryan
 
AAguy1992
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:50 am

CALMSP wrote:
AAguy1992 wrote:
AA isn't moving to C, the just built an Admirals Club in A, and with that said, they moved to A 4 years ago to be closer to BA and now JetBlue, makes sense to move Alaska to A, Thank you!


AA is moving to C in September’22 with 5 gates on the northwest side.


I moved them to A when I was in the Real Estate Group, WTH. AA has moved more than any carrier at DEN.
 
Runway765
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:12 am

AAguy1992 wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
AAguy1992 wrote:
AA isn't moving to C, the just built an Admirals Club in A, and with that said, they moved to A 4 years ago to be closer to BA and now JetBlue, makes sense to move Alaska to A, Thank you!


AA is moving to C in September’22 with 5 gates on the northwest side.


I moved them to A when I was in the Real Estate Group, WTH. AA has moved more than any carrier at DEN.


Yeah, that doesn’t make any sense. AA/DL should be on A, especially with BA and AF having international flights. Putting a new Admirals Club on C is going to make it extremely inconvenient for BA premium pax to use.
 
Runway765
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:14 am

werba wrote:
For everyone who has an idea to improve the trains and or providing some redundancy to them DEN wants to hear from you!

https://www.flydenver.com/sites/default ... %20RFI.pdf


Only thing that will help is building pedestrian tunnels. Everything else is a band aid.
 
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:04 am

This UA Club Lite concept is interesting. I don't think I'd heard anything publicly about this? It seems like they kept it pretty quiet.

It also looks pretty small. I suppose any additional club space for UA in B is a good thing, but I hope the club isn't so small and crowded that it's a waste of a pass.

I'm still confused as to whether AA is staying on A or moving to C. Maybe they could build a better club in the former DL Crown Room space? There'd also be an advantage for them being close to the Centurion lounge. AA and DL have zero international flights in and out of DEN, and I highly doubt they have any meaningful connections onto the BA and AF flights, so it probably makes sense to give priority on A to the airlines that actually do have international flights.
 
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theAviationGeek
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:16 am

AAguy1992 wrote:

I moved them to A when I was in the Real Estate Group, WTH. AA has moved more than any carrier at DEN.


I believe that title goes to Alaska Airlines at DEN.

-R
 
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:21 am

theAviationGeek wrote:
AAguy1992 wrote:

I moved them to A when I was in the Real Estate Group, WTH. AA has moved more than any carrier at DEN.


I believe that title goes to Alaska Airlines at DEN.

-R


It might be close. AS was not at DEN when DIA opened. I think AS started on C, went to the CUTE gates in A, and is now back on C. Did they shuffle back and forth between A and C more often than that?

AA went from C to A and has been in A for probably a decade now. But if you include US, US started on C, then moved to B briefly with CO when Star was big on getting all of their airlines under one roof, and then moved to A with the AA merger.

Where each airline ended up when the airport opened is pretty much directly a result of the order in which they all agreed to move from Stapleton. CO was first and the only for a while, so they picked A and had a lot of influence in its design. UA didn't sign onto DIA until later, which is why they ended up with B. Then the cats and dogs were all in C.
 
CALMSP
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:18 pm

intotheair wrote:
This UA Club Lite concept is interesting. I don't think I'd heard anything publicly about this? It seems like they kept it pretty quiet.

It also looks pretty small. I suppose any additional club space for UA in B is a good thing, but I hope the club isn't so small and crowded that it's a waste of a pass.

I'm still confused as to whether AA is staying on A or moving to C. Maybe they could build a better club in the former DL Crown Room space? There'd also be an advantage for them being close to the Centurion lounge. AA and DL have zero international flights in and out of DEN, and I highly doubt they have any meaningful connections onto the BA and AF flights, so it probably makes sense to give priority on A to the airlines that actually do have international flights.


they are 100% moving to C38/36/34/32/30
 
FlyHossD
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:19 pm

Runway765 wrote:
AAguy1992 wrote:
CALMSP wrote:

AA is moving to C in September’22 with 5 gates on the northwest side.


I moved them to A when I was in the Real Estate Group, WTH. AA has moved more than any carrier at DEN.


Yeah, that doesn’t make any sense. AA/DL should be on A, especially with BA and AF having international flights. Putting a new Admirals Club on C is going to make it extremely inconvenient for BA premium pax to use.


It does make sense, at least if you look at the recent history. Unlike Smisek, Kirby is intent on growing DEN and was aggressive enough to beat AA to the punch at DEN’s A Concourse in order to ensure improved access and operations with more international flights.
 
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theAviationGeek
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:32 am

intotheair wrote:
It might be close. AS was not at DEN when DIA opened. I think AS started on C, went to the CUTE gates in A, and is now back on C. Did they shuffle back and forth between A and C more often than that?


When AS started serving DEN on April 28, 2002, they (and Horizon) used both Gates A37 and A39. I believe A39 was their designated gate with A37 used as needed, expecially for RON flights. AS initially served DEN from SEA (3x daily with the B737-400) while QX served PDX 2x and BOI 1x daily using the CRJ-700 (BOI was short lived).

Sometime prior to Septermber 2003, Alaska had moved to C32, with C33, a CUTE gate, being used only if necessary. I believe by the time they moved to C Concourse all QX flying had been converted to AS using the B737-700 to PDX. Sometime in 2008, AS was moved to Gate A51 to accommodate Southwest Airlines' rapid expansion. Then, in either 2011 or 2012, they moved across the hall to A52. In 2016, Alaska moved once again to the C Concourse (C39). Of note, Virgin America was using a CUTE gate on Concourse A and at somepoint I believe they were moved to a CUTE gate on Concourse C: C38(?). Also, Alaska's ticket counter seemed to move just as frequently during all of this.

American Airlines had Gates C35, C37, and C39 from opening until moving over to Concourse A (I believe this happened in 2010).

Ryan
 
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:37 am

theAviationGeek wrote:
intotheair wrote:
It might be close. AS was not at DEN when DIA opened. I think AS started on C, went to the CUTE gates in A, and is now back on C. Did they shuffle back and forth between A and C more often than that?


When AS started serving DEN on April 28, 2002, they (and Horizon) used both Gates A37 and A39. I believe A39 was their designated gate with A37 used as needed, expecially for RON flights. AS initially served DEN from SEA (3x daily with the B737-400) while QX served PDX 2x and BOI 1x daily using the CRJ-700 (BOI was short lived).

Sometime prior to Septermber 2003, Alaska had moved to C32, with C33, a CUTE gate, being used only if necessary. I believe by the time they moved to C Concourse all QX flying had been converted to AS using the B737-700 to PDX. Sometime in 2008, AS was moved to Gate A51 to accommodate Southwest Airlines' rapid expansion. Then, in either 2011 or 2012, they moved across the hall to A52. In 2016, Alaska moved once again to the C Concourse (C39). Of note, Virgin America was using a CUTE gate on Concourse A and at somepoint I believe they were moved to a CUTE gate on Concourse C: C38(?). Also, Alaska's ticket counter seemed to move just as frequently during all of this.

American Airlines had Gates C35, C37, and C39 from opening until moving over to Concourse A (I believe this happened in 2010).

Ryan


Thanks for the timeline. I think I've only ever flown AS out of DEN once, so I haven't paid as much attention to them. I didn't even realize they briefly flew DEN-BOI. Sounds like AS really has moved the most. Meanwhile, other minor players like B6 have always stayed in A the whole time.
 
jplatts
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:50 pm

n562wn wrote:
It’ll be interesting to see how it all shakes it. I’m probably most interested in what I’m the world WN has plans for with 16 additional gates.


khaba wrote:
16 new WN gates will go far toward the goal of 300+ daily departures for sure.


Here are the WN destinations in the contiguous U.S. that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from DEN:
ALB, AMA, BLI, CRP, VPS, EUG, GSP, HRL, JAN, ISP, LBB, MHT, MYR, PNS, PWM, PVD, ROC, SAV, SYR, DCA, and PBI

While WN doesn't currently have any nonstop flights to ALB, PNS, or SAV out of DEN in its flight schedules, WN is likely to resume DEN-ALB/PNS/SAV nonstop service with WN having operated these routes in Summer 2021.

WN is unlikely to ever add DEN-DCA nonstop service (unless additional beyond-perimeter slot exemptions become available) due to the DCA perimeter rule. WN also already uses its beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA on its DCA-AUS route.

I had previously mentioned the possibilities of WN re-adding DEN-MHT/PVD nonstop service as enough demand was still there for WN DEN-MHT/PVD nonstop service after WN added DEN-BOS nonstop service. A post listing the load factors of DEN-BOS/MHT/PVD in 2013 can be found at viewtopic.php?t=1438013#p21977445.

While PBI doesn't currently have any nonstop service from DEN, WN adding DEN-PBI nonstop service might be a possibility as PBI has previously had nonstop service from DEN on F9 and UA.

While GSP hasn't seen any new WN nonstop routes in more than 5 years (unlike most of the other WN stations in the U.S.), WN adding DEN-GSP nonstop service might be a possibility with F9 no longer serving GSP.

I had also previously mentioned the possibility of WN adding DEN-PWM nonstop service with WN having added nonstop service out of DEN to a few other destinations inherited through the WN-FL merger such as CLT, DSM, RIC, and ICT in the last 2 years.

WN adding DEN-BLI/EUG nonstop service are possibilities as these adds would provide easier access to DEN and other markets east of the Rocky Mountains from BLI and EUG.
 
303dk
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:46 pm

intotheair wrote:
Thanks for sharing as always. I didn't notice any of that last week. I just noticed the signs in front of the entrance of the closed club. I also noticed a very long line into the one open club a few weeks ago. I heard reports that they're turning away one-time pass holders.

I can't imagine that pop up club is very premium, but I suppose that's better than nothing.

I also can't wait to see what the club in A looks like. You would think that DEN might eventually have enough longhaul flights on UA metal to justify a small Polaris lounge. It's the only hub that doesn't have one.


They regularly turn away one time pass holders during the busy hours. Same as nearly every UA hub.
 
AndoAv8R
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:08 am

Cant remember if this has ever been asked but there used to be a way to download the airport master plan (i seem to think there was other files about the airport projects you could download as well), however i cant seem to find that anymore. Is there still a way to get it?
 
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:46 am

AndoAv8R wrote:
Cant remember if this has ever been asked but there used to be a way to download the airport master plan (i seem to think there was other files about the airport projects you could download as well), however i cant seem to find that anymore. Is there still a way to get it?


It definitely used to be on there, and it looks like it must have been removed. I wonder if maybe they took it down now that there's a new CEO who probably wants to shake it all up again. Either that, or I think the master plan is fairly dated now that several projects have been completed or under construction (hotel, train, concourse expansion, terminal redevelopment.)

I found this executive summary via the Wayback Machine. It's from 2012, but the last time I tried looking at the master plan (within the last two years for sure), this was the most recent publicly available document.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170516151 ... ummary.pdf

There are also more documents here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170430034 ... loads.html

Also, as I was poking around, I stumbled across these renderings, which I'd never seen before. Looks like Tryba Architects did some more recent consulting on the master plan (mostly the surrounding, off-airport areas), but this is a nice view of how the east/west concourses and south terminal expansion may look one day. It reminds me a lot of a bigger, more spread out version of the SFO International Terminal in the way it's suspended over the access roads.

https://www.trybaarchitects.com/portfol ... ear-vision

Image
 
DenverTed
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:01 pm

intotheair wrote:
AndoAv8R wrote:
Cant remember if this has ever been asked but there used to be a way to download the airport master plan (i seem to think there was other files about the airport projects you could download as well), however i cant seem to find that anymore. Is there still a way to get it?


It definitely used to be on there, and it looks like it must have been removed. I wonder if maybe they took it down now that there's a new CEO who probably wants to shake it all up again. Either that, or I think the master plan is fairly dated now that several projects have been completed or under construction (hotel, train, concourse expansion, terminal redevelopment.)

I found this executive summary via the Wayback Machine. It's from 2012, but the last time I tried looking at the master plan (within the last two years for sure), this was the most recent publicly available document.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170516151 ... ummary.pdf

There are also more documents here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170430034 ... loads.html

Also, as I was poking around, I stumbled across these renderings, which I'd never seen before. Looks like Tryba Architects did some more recent consulting on the master plan (mostly the surrounding, off-airport areas), but this is a nice view of how the east/west concourses and south terminal expansion may look one day. It reminds me a lot of a bigger, more spread out version of the SFO International Terminal in the way it's suspended over the access roads.

https://www.trybaarchitects.com/portfol ... ear-vision

Image

Where's the south terminal go? Isn't there a hotel there now. If they need more curbside or terminal, what are the options? Does it all have to feed into the central security point, or would they build a separate terminal. If the o and d doubles, I would think they would need more room, at least for drop off and pick up.
The east and west concourses pictured look like they are squeezed in there. I'll be curious to see if that is what gets built, or if other options emerge.
 
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cosyr
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:40 pm

DenverTed wrote:
intotheair wrote:
AndoAv8R wrote:
Cant remember if this has ever been asked but there used to be a way to download the airport master plan (i seem to think there was other files about the airport projects you could download as well), however i cant seem to find that anymore. Is there still a way to get it?


It definitely used to be on there, and it looks like it must have been removed. I wonder if maybe they took it down now that there's a new CEO who probably wants to shake it all up again. Either that, or I think the master plan is fairly dated now that several projects have been completed or under construction (hotel, train, concourse expansion, terminal redevelopment.)

I found this executive summary via the Wayback Machine. It's from 2012, but the last time I tried looking at the master plan (within the last two years for sure), this was the most recent publicly available document.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170516151 ... ummary.pdf

There are also more documents here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170430034 ... loads.html

Also, as I was poking around, I stumbled across these renderings, which I'd never seen before. Looks like Tryba Architects did some more recent consulting on the master plan (mostly the surrounding, off-airport areas), but this is a nice view of how the east/west concourses and south terminal expansion may look one day. It reminds me a lot of a bigger, more spread out version of the SFO International Terminal in the way it's suspended over the access roads.

https://www.trybaarchitects.com/portfol ... ear-vision

Image

Where's the south terminal go? Isn't there a hotel there now. If they need more curbside or terminal, what are the options? Does it all have to feed into the central security point, or would they build a separate terminal. If the o and d doubles, I would think they would need more room, at least for drop off and pick up.
The east and west concourses pictured look like they are squeezed in there. I'll be curious to see if that is what gets built, or if other options emerge.

The more recent plan would have the South terminal right over the train station, so the hotel would be between the two terminals, and concourses would go east and west over where the current long term parking are.

At first I thought these plans were dumb, as the original airport called for a concourse D and E, and a doubled Jeppesen terminal to the south, but I'm aware that not only doesn't solve the train problem but worsens it. Depending on how deep DEN wants to go, it could make sense to go similar to DTW and have a separate terminal for non connecting airlines. They could easily build a Concourse A size concourse and terminal to the East of Pena, where Signature Flight Support is 39.83861618674216, -104.66850941318289. Move AA, DL, AS, B6, etc there, and eliminate a big chunk of O&D traffic through the Jeppesen terminal. Depending on how big UA and WN's Intl schedules get, it could also make sense to move non-Star Alliance foreign carriers to a new terminal, again similar to DTW.

This type of terminal would be far enough south that it could still leave the door open for the larger terminal south of the train station, if decades in the future DEN grew to that scale.
 
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:28 pm

cosyr wrote:
DenverTed wrote:
Where's the south terminal go? Isn't there a hotel there now. If they need more curbside or terminal, what are the options? Does it all have to feed into the central security point, or would they build a separate terminal. If the o and d doubles, I would think they would need more room, at least for drop off and pick up.
The east and west concourses pictured look like they are squeezed in there. I'll be curious to see if that is what gets built, or if other options emerge.

The more recent plan would have the South terminal right over the train station, so the hotel would be between the two terminals, and concourses would go east and west over where the current long term parking are.

At first I thought these plans were dumb, as the original airport called for a concourse D and E, and a doubled Jeppesen terminal to the south, but I'm aware that not only doesn't solve the train problem but worsens it. Depending on how deep DEN wants to go, it could make sense to go similar to DTW and have a separate terminal for non connecting airlines. They could easily build a Concourse A size concourse and terminal to the East of Pena, where Signature Flight Support is 39.83861618674216, -104.66850941318289. Move AA, DL, AS, B6, etc there, and eliminate a big chunk of O&D traffic through the Jeppesen terminal. Depending on how big UA and WN's Intl schedules get, it could also make sense to move non-Star Alliance foreign carriers to a new terminal, again similar to DTW.

This type of terminal would be far enough south that it could still leave the door open for the larger terminal south of the train station, if decades in the future DEN grew to that scale.


At one point, they did explore the idea of building an international or LCC terminal a little farther south than where you pointed. It would have been where the cargo area currently sits. I think they eventually dropped that idea in favor of the east/west concourse one, partly because relocating the entire cargo area wouldn't be easy. I think they also didn't like how isolated it would have been from everything else.

The way I picture the south terminal expansion and east/west concourses going is like the SFO international terminal. It was built in front of all the existing terminals and on top of all the access roads. It has its own access ramp and curb space. The rail connection was built at the same time and didn't exist before, but it's included in the same facility. There are landside and airside pedestrian walkways in between the international terminal and the United terminal, making it easy to connect. I think DEN could do something fairly similar with the south terminal.

Image
https://www.tutorperini.com/projects/av ... -terminal/

I haven't ever been able to find anything making it clear how the DEN east/west concourses would be connected to the south terminal or how transit passengers would get to the existing concourses. I'm guessing it would be a pedestrian tunnel between the east/west concourses and south terminal. Perhaps they could also tunnel to the existing train platform in the Jeppesen Terminal. Also, looking at the drawings, it seems like a ped tunnel from the north end of the west concourse to the west end of Concourse A would be a great idea and feasible.

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