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DCA350
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:26 pm

Eiszeit wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Forgive me for being slow but with the 4 leased A350s, what will be the total number in the fleet?


The Lufthansa site says they have 17 in fleet right now (this is without these 4 PAL birds). There are 45 ordered in total + these 4 leases.


Thanks, I'm surprised they haven't converted a few to the A350K.. Would seem to be a perfect replacements for the A346s and some of the 747 routes.. 20 777s can't cover all the 747 and A380 retirements..
 
GLANKG
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:24 am

B747forever wrote:
Is LH really going to start flying the 747-400 at the end of October? See it on multiple routes, but might just be a placeholder?

Booked YVR - FRA in December, it shows 744 and the upper cabin has just one other passenger in seat selection (still early but I wonder how much more exclusive could 744 upper deck become in Covid times)
 
Opus99
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:40 am

DCA350 wrote:
Eiszeit wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Forgive me for being slow but with the 4 leased A350s, what will be the total number in the fleet?


The Lufthansa site says they have 17 in fleet right now (this is without these 4 PAL birds). There are 45 ordered in total + these 4 leases.


Thanks, I'm surprised they haven't converted a few to the A350K.. Would seem to be a perfect replacements for the A346s and some of the 747 routes.. 20 777s can't cover all the 747 and A380 retirements..

Isn’t that the million dollar question that nobody on this platform can answer. The biggest A359 customers are not 35K customers, rather 777X customers or at least both. SQ, LH, EK, for both we see QR, CX. Suggests to me the X has something over the K and I’m not quite sure what it is
 
na
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:45 am

ben7x wrote:
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/boeing-787-9-lufthansa-nennt-das-erste-dreamliner-ziel (German)
They claim engine-problems as the reason for the delayed delivery of their Dreamliner. Haven’t the RR problems been solved?


The first 787s have GE-engines, so its GE problems, not RR.
 
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PM
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:02 am

Opus99 wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Eiszeit wrote:

The Lufthansa site says they have 17 in fleet right now (this is without these 4 PAL birds). There are 45 ordered in total + these 4 leases.


Thanks, I'm surprised they haven't converted a few to the A350K.. Would seem to be a perfect replacements for the A346s and some of the 747 routes.. 20 777s can't cover all the 747 and A380 retirements..

Isn’t that the million dollar question that nobody on this platform can answer. The biggest A359 customers are not 35K customers, rather 777X customers or at least both. SQ, LH, EK, for both we see QR, CX. Suggests to me the X has something over the K and I’m not quite sure what it is

I think it's situational and contingent. As you say, QR and CX are big customers and have ordered both. Then we have BA and EY who have ordered only the A350-1000 (ie not -900) but also the 777X. You could also include AF who have a large order for -900s but (so far) no -1000s or 777X.

What I'm saying is, I'm not sure there's a pattern there.
 
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JLGordon
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:40 am

Regarding the 787, there are also rumors about problems with the seats. Looks like the seat airbags are missing some sort of european certificate.
Looking forward seeing the 747-400 back in the air again. Beautiful bird.
 
Opus99
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:57 am

PM wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
DCA350 wrote:

Thanks, I'm surprised they haven't converted a few to the A350K.. Would seem to be a perfect replacements for the A346s and some of the 747 routes.. 20 777s can't cover all the 747 and A380 retirements..

Isn’t that the million dollar question that nobody on this platform can answer. The biggest A359 customers are not 35K customers, rather 777X customers or at least both. SQ, LH, EK, for both we see QR, CX. Suggests to me the X has something over the K and I’m not quite sure what it is

I think it's situational and contingent. As you say, QR and CX are big customers and have ordered both. Then we have BA and EY who have ordered only the A350-1000 (ie not -900) but also the 777X. You could also include AF who have a large order for -900s but (so far) no -1000s or 777X.

What I'm saying is, I'm not sure there's a pattern there.

Good point. But it also suggests to me the X is not as bad compared to the 1000 as some on here may suggest because if it was it would be a 346 vs 77W kind of situation
 
Scotron12
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:41 pm

All A350-1000 orders were pre-Covid. Even the LATAM birds that DL is taking, DL converted to A359s. Current operators of the A359 with orders for the 35K are OS and JAL. IAG has 5 A359s that could go to BA or IB.

Right now LH is content with their A359s, not to say they couldn't convert to the larger 35K when traffic roars back.

Rgds
 
na
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:52 pm

JLGordon wrote:
Regarding the 787, there are also rumors about problems with the seats. Looks like the seat airbags are missing some sort of european certificate.

Yes, thats an issue.

JLGordon wrote:
Looking forward seeing the 747-400 back in the air again. Beautiful bird.

Absolutely. Very nice that its coming back for two or three years. My all-time favorite airliner, and the type I flew most on longhaul.
 
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PM
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:19 pm

Opus99 wrote:
PM wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Isn’t that the million dollar question that nobody on this platform can answer. The biggest A359 customers are not 35K customers, rather 777X customers or at least both. SQ, LH, EK, for both we see QR, CX. Suggests to me the X has something over the K and I’m not quite sure what it is

I think it's situational and contingent. As you say, QR and CX are big customers and have ordered both. Then we have BA and EY who have ordered only the A350-1000 (ie not -900) but also the 777X. You could also include AF who have a large order for -900s but (so far) no -1000s or 777X.

What I'm saying is, I'm not sure there's a pattern there.

Good point. But it also suggests to me the X is not as bad compared to the 1000 as some on here may suggest because if it was it would be a 346 vs 77W kind of situation

I'm definitely not one of those slamming the X. I think it will do exactly what Boeing and the customers want it to do. But I suspect that will usually be a different mission from where they send their A350Ks, if they have any. I can see both happily coexisting in fleets. And at BA, to pick just one example, they will.

OK, that's me being even-handed.

Being a bit more partisan, I suspect (hope?) that ultimately the market for the 35K will be bigger than for the X.
 
ben7x
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:28 pm

Opus99 wrote:
PM wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Isn’t that the million dollar question that nobody on this platform can answer. The biggest A359 customers are not 35K customers, rather 777X customers or at least both. SQ, LH, EK, for both we see QR, CX. Suggests to me the X has something over the K and I’m not quite sure what it is

I think it's situational and contingent. As you say, QR and CX are big customers and have ordered both. Then we have BA and EY who have ordered only the A350-1000 (ie not -900) but also the 777X. You could also include AF who have a large order for -900s but (so far) no -1000s or 777X.

What I'm saying is, I'm not sure there's a pattern there.

Good point. But it also suggests to me the X is not as bad compared to the 1000 as some on here may suggest because if it was it would be a 346 vs 77W kind of situation


The 779 has around double as much orders as the the A35K. So it’s definitively not a bad aircraft if the A35K is a good aircraft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777X#Orders
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A350#Operators
 
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PM
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:47 pm

ben7x wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
PM wrote:
I think it's situational and contingent. As you say, QR and CX are big customers and have ordered both. Then we have BA and EY who have ordered only the A350-1000 (ie not -900) but also the 777X. You could also include AF who have a large order for -900s but (so far) no -1000s or 777X.

What I'm saying is, I'm not sure there's a pattern there.

Good point. But it also suggests to me the X is not as bad compared to the 1000 as some on here may suggest because if it was it would be a 346 vs 77W kind of situation


The 779 has around double as much orders as the the A35K. So it’s definitively not a bad aircraft if the A35K is a good aircraft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777X#Orders
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A350#Operators

No arguments from me but it's still far too soon to draw any firm conclusions. Each plane will sell for another decade or more. Let's take another look in 2031.
 
CRJockey
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:24 pm

na wrote:
Absolutely. Very nice that its coming back for two or three years. My all-time favorite airliner, and the type I flew most on longhaul.


Absolutely not. One of the ugliest airliners in existence. Disproportionate, noisy and rattly. Not happy it is coming back but for the sole reason it means more traffic and more normality in the industry post-covid.

And yes, I spent far more time on-board of the 744 than I can count.
 
777luver
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:29 pm

CRJockey wrote:
na wrote:
Absolutely. Very nice that its coming back for two or three years. My all-time favorite airliner, and the type I flew most on longhaul.


Absolutely not. One of the ugliest airliners in existence. Disproportionate, noisy and rattly. Not happy it is coming back but for the sole reason it means more traffic and more normality in the industry post-covid.

And yes, I spent far more time on-board of the 744 than I can count.


LOL the hatred is real, definitely an outlier in the aviation world :)
 
CRJockey
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:18 pm

777luver wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
na wrote:
Absolutely. Very nice that its coming back for two or three years. My all-time favorite airliner, and the type I flew most on longhaul.


Absolutely not. One of the ugliest airliners in existence. Disproportionate, noisy and rattly. Not happy it is coming back but for the sole reason it means more traffic and more normality in the industry post-covid.

And yes, I spent far more time on-board of the 744 than I can count.


LOL the hatred is real, definitely an outlier in the aviation world :)


I know! ;)

I just seem to favour modernity over history with regards to planes.

And too many a jetlagged morning with a dull head from the noise and a dry everything from an overnight flight in this white noise machine.
 
Eiszeit
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:36 pm

777luver wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
na wrote:
Absolutely. Very nice that its coming back for two or three years. My all-time favorite airliner, and the type I flew most on longhaul.


Absolutely not. One of the ugliest airliners in existence. Disproportionate, noisy and rattly. Not happy it is coming back but for the sole reason it means more traffic and more normality in the industry post-covid.

And yes, I spent far more time on-board of the 744 than I can count.


LOL the hatred is real, definitely an outlier in the aviation world :)


Well to me born in 1993 a 744 is a rather loud old and (atleast by 2015) very dated design with little to no relinquishing attributes..
In my eyes aviation is dominated by some grandpas.... but yeah I think the 77W is lound so ꧁꧂
 
stratable
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:09 pm

Eiszeit wrote:
Well to me born in 1993 a 744 is a rather loud old and (atleast by 2015) very dated design with little to no relinquishing attributes..
In my eyes aviation is dominated by some grandpas.... but yeah I think the 77W is lound so ꧁꧂


Same here, I find the 747-400 pretty dated. The noise level isn't too bad in my opinion but the cabin just feels old and uncomfortable.
I also think the 77W is loud. It must be the GE90 though. As I've said elsewhere, I don't mind the British Airways 777s that have the Rolls Royce engines.
But the 777s with the GE90 are more noisy. Maybe the three-spool design?

In any case, I hope we'll see primarily Trent-powered aircraft with Lufthansa.
It seems to be that they are sticking, as per initial press announcement, to the Trent for the 787 so that would be nice.
https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b787-62143.htm
 
marcogr12
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:36 pm

No true avgeek says a) the Queen of the Skies is old, loud and outdated..b) the 77W is loud..because 1.it isnt...you havent flown a really loud plane ( bring 707,DC10,732s etc) 2. No true avgeek rejects a loud engine..in fact the louder the better :))
 
Eiszeit
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:12 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
No true avgeek says a) the Queen of the Skies is old, loud and outdated..b) the 77W is loud..because 1.it isnt...you havent flown a really loud plane ( bring 707,DC10,732s etc) 2. No true avgeek rejects a loud engine..in fact the louder the better :))


Well it seems the last "true avgeek" died (yes it is meant in a metaphorical way mentioning hearing loss...) long ago... and yes I didn't fly 707s, DC10s or well, ME262s but we cant expirience what our forbarers did without diminishing their achievements... So we shrug of, what to them was a leap in technology just to tell them for the 50th time how to take a picture un their smartphone.... And we will be the same in no time
 
mikedelta720
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:01 am

marcogr12 wrote:
No true avgeek says a) the Queen of the Skies is old, loud and outdated..b) the 77W is loud..because 1.it isnt...you havent flown a really loud plane ( bring 707,DC10,732s etc) 2. No true avgeek rejects a loud engine..in fact the louder the better :))


I couldn't agree more haha. Nothing will ever beat the classics. The loud engines are music to my ears.

Any word about Austrian getting the 787s? I haven't heard much about it yet. Although their 767s are getting quite aged, I'm in no rush for them to be replaced just yet :P I'll miss working on those workhorses.
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:06 am

Loud? Why has no one mentioned the 1-11 yet?!
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:07 am

stratable wrote:

In any case, I hope we'll see primarily Trent-powered aircraft with Lufthansa.
It seems to be that they are sticking, as per initial press announcement, to the Trent for the 787 so that would be nice.
https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b787-62143.htm

I'm afraid Airfleets is wrong here. MSN 898 has GEnx.
 
A359bw
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:37 am

PM wrote:
stratable wrote:

In any case, I hope we'll see primarily Trent-powered aircraft with Lufthansa.
It seems to be that they are sticking, as per initial press announcement, to the Trent for the 787 so that would be nice.
https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b787-62143.htm


I'm afraid Airfleets is wrong here. MSN 898 has GEnx.



Supposedly, the 5 additional 787s purchased will all be converted to RR.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FH3Y2-vRUgojntPkCSJI5Pd-15rsJ1a0SFCRaT-iqgo/edit#gid=19
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:11 am

na wrote:
JLGordon wrote:
Regarding the 787, there are also rumors about problems with the seats. Looks like the seat airbags are missing some sort of european certificate.

Yes, thats an issue.

JLGordon wrote:
Looking forward seeing the 747-400 back in the air again. Beautiful bird.

Absolutely. Very nice that its coming back for two or three years. My all-time favorite airliner, and the type I flew most on longhaul.

Hopefully the certificaiton issue will be rectified soon. Did the issue came to light now only because they were stored for too long?
 
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JLGordon
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:40 am

PM wrote:
stratable wrote:

In any case, I hope we'll see primarily Trent-powered aircraft with Lufthansa.
It seems to be that they are sticking, as per initial press announcement, to the Trent for the 787 so that would be nice.
https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b787-62143.htm

I'm afraid Airfleets is wrong here. MSN 898 has GEnx.


They will get a Fleet intermix in terms of Engines. The 5 ex Vistara they are getting now will have GEs. The rest of the upcoming fleet (which is the initial order) will get Trents.
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:52 am

JLGordon wrote:
PM wrote:
stratable wrote:

In any case, I hope we'll see primarily Trent-powered aircraft with Lufthansa.
It seems to be that they are sticking, as per initial press announcement, to the Trent for the 787 so that would be nice.
https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b787-62143.htm

I'm afraid Airfleets is wrong here. MSN 898 has GEnx.


They will get a Fleet intermix in terms of Engines. The 5 ex Vistara they are getting now will have GEs. The rest of the upcoming fleet (which is the initial order) will get Trents.

Indeed. :bigthumbsup:
 
DartHerald
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:55 am

na wrote:
JLGordon wrote:
Regarding the 787, there are also rumors about problems with the seats. Looks like the seat airbags are missing some sort of european certificate.

Yes, thats an issue.
?

I have never heard of airliner seats being fitted with airbags before - is this an innovation in the 787
 
miegapele
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:01 am

DartHerald wrote:
I have never heard of airliner seats being fitted with airbags before - is this an innovation in the 787

No, that happens in certain cases. For example I have flown Jetstar a320 with airbags in emergency exit rows. Probably some requirement from some agency. I also heard all these business seats have them, just not very visibly.
 
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Polot
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:26 am

DartHerald wrote:
na wrote:
JLGordon wrote:
Regarding the 787, there are also rumors about problems with the seats. Looks like the seat airbags are missing some sort of european certificate.

Yes, thats an issue.
?

I have never heard of airliner seats being fitted with airbags before - is this an innovation in the 787

It’s seat dependent and found on a variety of types. A lot of premium seats, especially herringbone ones where you are not sitting in line with direction of travel, have air bags.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:16 pm

PM wrote:
Loud? Why has no one mentioned the 1-11 yet?!

Did not hear 1-11 in person. Did hear the first generation jets, 707, 727, etc which delivered ear-piercing shrieking sounds.

The one that took the prize for me was Concorde taking off. It was a truly visceral experience. It wasn't just sound, the shock waves thumped against one's chest and caused a throbbing sensation. I experienced this in the car park at LHR, so I wasn't particularly close, as such effects drop with the square of distance. I can only imagine what it was like to be closer.
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:05 pm

Revelation wrote:
PM wrote:
Loud? Why has no one mentioned the 1-11 yet?!

Did not hear 1-11 in person. Did hear the first generation jets, 707, 727, etc which delivered ear-piercing shrieking sounds.

The one that took the prize for me was Concorde taking off. It was a truly visceral experience. It wasn't just sound, the shock waves thumped against one's chest and caused a throbbing sensation. I experienced this in the car park at LHR, so I wasn't particularly close, as such effects drop with the square of distance. I can only imagine what it was like to be closer.

I was close (enough) to a Concorde taking off. At CDG, I was sitting in an airplane, the airplane stopped taxiing, and the Captain came on the public speaker system, apologizing for a delay, explaining that the runway is occupied for Concorde takeoff, and suggesting we take a look (we were on a taxiway perpendicular to the runway, Concorde was taking off right to left, in front of us. I was on the port side, so could only see very little to the right). It was not the noise that surprised most, however (I was used to Tu-154 and An-24 at the time; airplane noise was a given). Our little 737 was... Not shaking, not rocking... I would say dribbling under us. (sorry, English is not my first language, not even a second. I might be somewhat limited in the vocabulary to describe this short-amplitude, not strong, but oscillating... jumps). When the noise arrived en force, the Concorde was already to the left, gradually rotating.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:16 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
I was close (enough) to a Concorde taking off. At CDG, I was sitting in an airplane, the airplane stopped taxiing, and the Captain came on the public speaker system, apologizing for a delay, explaining that the runway is occupied for Concorde takeoff, and suggesting we take a look (we were on a taxiway perpendicular to the runway, Concorde was taking off right to left, in front of us. I was on the port side, so could only see very little to the right). It was not the noise that surprised most, however (I was used to Tu-154 and An-24 at the time; airplane noise was a given). Our little 737 was... Not shaking, not rocking... I would say dribbling under us. (sorry, English is not my first language, not even a second. I might be somewhat limited in the vocabulary to describe this short-amplitude, not strong, but oscillating... jumps). When the noise arrived en force, the Concorde was already to the left, gradually rotating.

Thank you for your post, it is a very colorful description of the Concorde experience.

Concorde probably caused problems for geologists, they probably thought there was an earthquake every time Concorde took off! :D
 
oldJoe
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:03 pm

Revelation wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
I was close (enough) to a Concorde taking off. At CDG, I was sitting in an airplane, the airplane stopped taxiing, and the Captain came on the public speaker system, apologizing for a delay, explaining that the runway is occupied for Concorde takeoff, and suggesting we take a look (we were on a taxiway perpendicular to the runway, Concorde was taking off right to left, in front of us. I was on the port side, so could only see very little to the right). It was not the noise that surprised most, however (I was used to Tu-154 and An-24 at the time; airplane noise was a given). Our little 737 was... Not shaking, not rocking... I would say dribbling under us. (sorry, English is not my first language, not even a second. I might be somewhat limited in the vocabulary to describe this short-amplitude, not strong, but oscillating... jumps). When the noise arrived en force, the Concorde was already to the left, gradually rotating.

Thank you for your post, it is a very colorful description of the Concorde experience.

Concorde probably caused problems for geologists, they probably thought there was an earthquake every time Concorde took off! :D


I saw the Concorde take off from a similar distance as the TU-144 (1973 Paris Air Show) and believe me the Tupolev would win the award in my opinion. At the time (12 years old) I thought this was what an earthquake must feel like !
 
stratable
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:32 pm

JLGordon wrote:
PM wrote:
stratable wrote:

In any case, I hope we'll see primarily Trent-powered aircraft with Lufthansa.
It seems to be that they are sticking, as per initial press announcement, to the Trent for the 787 so that would be nice.
https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b787-62143.htm

I'm afraid Airfleets is wrong here. MSN 898 has GEnx.


They will get a Fleet intermix in terms of Engines. The 5 ex Vistara they are getting now will have GEs. The rest of the upcoming fleet (which is the initial order) will get Trents.


It'll be interesting to see how that develops. You might be able to make a business case for taking GEs on 5 Dreamliners as they also have them on the 747-8. So you might use
the 787 based on where each engine type performs better. However, I don't think they'll keep the 747-8 as long as the Dreamliners so you either end up with an oddball fleet or you need more 787s with GEs for Austrian or something like that
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:45 pm

Folks, please post on topic.
As exciting as the Concorde is, it isn't a Lufthansa group aircraft.
 
TC957
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:21 am

LH have said the 1st 787 route will be to YYZ.
 
Noshow
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:51 am

After some route proving in Europe including to Paris.
 
columba
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:03 pm

Lufthansa has flown their last A380 in FRA to desert storage in Teruel, Spain - who would have thought then years ago that the 747-400 will last longer with LH than the A380.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:28 pm

columba wrote:
Lufthansa has flown their last A380 in FRA to desert storage in Teruel, Spain

LH Maintenance team had a 'goodbye' ceremony complete with “Goodbye Sleeping Beauty” ribbon:

Image

Ref: @SteffenA380 on Twitter, https://twitter.com/SteffenA380/status/ ... 2990023682

columba wrote:
who would have thought then years ago that the 747-400 will last longer with LH than the A380.

No one. We live in strange times.
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:10 pm

Apparently A380 "New York" did a wing wave as she climbed out:

https://twitter.com/SteffenA380/status/ ... 6451740673
 
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DABYT
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:59 pm

B744 D-ABVU and D-ABVZ are on their way to XMN for maintenance right now.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:03 pm

columba wrote:
Lufthansa has flown their last A380 in FRA to desert storage in Teruel, Spain


A380 in question is D-AIMH. Had my best ever A380 flight on it's upper deck back in 2017. :hissyfit:
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:05 pm

DABYT wrote:
B744 D-ABVU and D-ABVZ are on their way to XMN for maintenance right now.

Seems to act as a reminder that there are lots of international MROs that can do 744 maintenance at low prices, A380 less so.
 
DCA350
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:17 pm

Revelation wrote:
DABYT wrote:
B744 D-ABVU and D-ABVZ are on their way to XMN for maintenance right now.

Seems to act as a reminder that there are lots of international MROs that can do 744 maintenance at low prices, A380 less so.


I didn't think about this.. Because I can not for the life of me see how operating a 744 is more efficient than an A380.. but I didn't factor in maintenance..
 
columba
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:09 am

DCA350 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
DABYT wrote:
B744 D-ABVU and D-ABVZ are on their way to XMN for maintenance right now.

Seems to act as a reminder that there are lots of international MROs that can do 744 maintenance at low prices, A380 less so.


I didn't think about this.. Because I can not for the life of me see how operating a 744 is more efficient than an A380.. but I didn't factor in maintenance..


Keep in mind that LH also has the 747-8I - 747-8I and 747-400 can be flown with the same crews. I wonder if would not be for the 747-8 that still takes an important role with LH if they would have kept the A380.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:23 am

columba wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Seems to act as a reminder that there are lots of international MROs that can do 744 maintenance at low prices, A380 less so.


I didn't think about this.. Because I can not for the life of me see how operating a 744 is more efficient than an A380.. but I didn't factor in maintenance..


Keep in mind that LH also has the 747-8I - 747-8I and 747-400 can be flown with the same crews. I wonder if would not be for the 747-8 that still takes an important role with LH if they would have kept the A380.


The presence of the 747-8i in LH's fleet certainly must have been an important factor reactivating the 744. Still, LH could also have decided to bring more A346 online. I hope the plans to bring back 8 of their A346s is still current?

On a totally different note, Boeing listed 7 more UFO 787-9 orders yesterday. Could LH Group finally have pulled the trigger on OS' 767/777 replacement?
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:48 am

I'm praying that LH Group keeps flying the 744, 748, 343 and 346 for as long as possible. Not only they all are fine aircrafts, but they are mighty big and comfortable and look amazing!
And yes, I LOVE the 787 and A350, but but but.......
 
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:30 pm

columba wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Seems to act as a reminder that there are lots of international MROs that can do 744 maintenance at low prices, A380 less so.

I didn't think about this.. Because I can not for the life of me see how operating a 744 is more efficient than an A380.. but I didn't factor in maintenance..

Keep in mind that LH also has the 747-8I - 747-8I and 747-400 can be flown with the same crews. I wonder if would not be for the 747-8 that still takes an important role with LH if they would have kept the A380.

All these decisions are made based on many factors. The thing about the A380 was it was falling out of favor pre-covid. Some orders were canceled (but to be fair, 748 had at least one order canceled too). LH was already planning to sell back some A380s to Airbus. LH CEO now admits it only made money on the busiest of routes. IMO the biggest factor is A380 has more than 125 more seats than the 747s and there's no scenario where LH predicts they can make money selling that many more seats in the near future. Once you know this, the other factors fall in line. Sending A380 to the desert allows you to suspend all other training and maintenance activities which saves a lot of money. It also makes it so it will cost a lot of money to restart operations, so there will need to be a complete recovery for that to happen, and even then we will not know if they prefer to go with more frequency, flexibility and efficiency with 787, A350 and eventually 779 instead.
 
nipkow
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:38 pm

frigatebird wrote:

On a totally different note, Boeing listed 7 more UFO 787-9 orders yesterday. Could LH Group finally have pulled the trigger on OS' 767/777 replacement?



You got a source for this? 9 aircraft would make more sense to be honest. However, if it is true, it would be amazing.
 
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JLGordon
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Re: Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:22 pm

As a passenger, the A380 was a wonderful aircraft. So quiet. And so stable throughout every weather. But it is horrible on the ground. Too big, you need special equipment and tools for everything, and the maintenance costs were sky high. And another factor: It had nearly no cargo capacity. And think about how economical it is flying around with 200 passengers if you have over 500 seats available. That was the situation with the bird, outside of the holiday seasons.
For the 744, they are paid off, maintenance costs are well known, tools and equipmet are there, you can send them everywhere and they burn less fuel than an A380. 744 is 10 tons an hour, A380 ist 12 or 14 IIRC. And a major factor: It has a huge cargo capacity. Starlight express knows it: Freight is great. Especially in these times.
But I will miss the A380.

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