Lufthansa Group Fleet Thread - 2021

A359bw · Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:48 am

steman wrote:
A359bw wrote:
swiss will be getting the A350 in the next few years. One reason is the wide cabin for the installation of the first class

https://samchui.com/2021/10/21/interview-with-lufthansa-ceo-on-business-travel-and-new-aircraft-delivery/#.YXHUSBpBzIV

This is interesting. From the interview it seems that the 4 leased ex PR A350s will go to Swiss but they will be reconfigured with Swiss cabin product.

i believe the quote about the A350s at swiss does not refer to the upper sentence that lufthansa has signed four leases.

PM · Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:28 am

The EAF site is now showing five (5) A350s on order for Swiss.

https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... /swr/lxswr

No further details.

HECA · Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:46 am

PM wrote:
The EAF site is now showing five (5) A350s on order for Swiss.

https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... /swr/lxswr

No further details.

Most concrete indication of the future replacement of the current five A343s?

FluidFlow · Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:59 am

HECA wrote:
PM wrote:
The EAF site is now showing five (5) A350s on order for Swiss.

https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... /swr/lxswr

No further details.

Most concrete indication of the future replacement of the current five A343s?

If this is true I wonder what the long term strategy at LX will be in the long haul fleet. Having 3 (ok 2.5) different cockpits is not really efficient with the 330s, 350s and 777s. Also this means that there is huge overlap with the 350s and 777s. I do not think it would have been difficult the get hands on used 777s so going for the 350s is pleasant as a traveller but very interesting form a fleet planning perspective.

Polot · Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:07 am

FluidFlow wrote:
Also this means that there is huge overlap with the 350s and 777s.

I’m guessing they will be A359s, which are much smaller than the 77W LX operates.

nipkow · Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:16 am

A359bw wrote:
swiss will be getting the A350 in the next few years. One reason is the wide cabin for the installation of the first class

https://samchui.com/2021/10/21/interview-with-lufthansa-ceo-on-business-travel-and-new-aircraft-delivery/#.YXHUSBpBzIV

As always mentioned here before, the 787 would be the perfect replacement for Austrian's long-haul fleet. With the A350 assigned to Swiss, I really hope to see the Dreamliner in OS c/s soon.

Polot · Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:19 am

nipkow wrote:
A359bw wrote:
swiss will be getting the A350 in the next few years. One reason is the wide cabin for the installation of the first class

https://samchui.com/2021/10/21/interview-with-lufthansa-ceo-on-business-travel-and-new-aircraft-delivery/#.YXHUSBpBzIV

As always mentioned here before, the 787 would be the perfect replacement for Austrian's long-haul fleet. With the A350 assigned to Swiss, I really hope to see the Dreamliner in OS c/s soon.

It’s been heavily rumored that OS are getting 4-5 787s from the original LH order (the RR frames, not the GE whitetails).

AECM · Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:48 am

Polot wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
Also this means that there is huge overlap with the 350s and 777s.

I’m guessing they will be A359s, which are much smaller than the 77W LX operates.

The website link posted above mention A359 and its what makes more sense. At this moment looking at Swiss fleet:

A333: F8C45Y183 = 236
A343: F8C47Y168 = 223
B77W: F8C62Y270 = 340 but moving to 4 class with F8C62W24Y226 = 320

An A359 in Swiss could be configure around 250 to 270 seats i think, depending on a 3 or 4 class layout.

DALCE · Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:50 am

Funny that when Sam Chui posts it is suddenly news.
LX has 359 on order even got mentioned months ago by, if I recall correctly Dieter Vranckx

LSZH34 · Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:51 am

DALCE wrote:
Funny that when Sam Chui posts it is suddenly news.
LX has 359 on order even got mentioned months ago by, if I recall correctly Dieter Vranckx

That's not correct. There was never an official statement that LX has A350s on order.

A321Lufthansa · Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:02 pm

D-AIBM has left for repaint into LH cs in BTS. It is the first ex-OS A319 repainted into LH. Are the further repaint steps in the fleet already known?

Cardude2 · Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:58 pm

Hey, what about the 4 Edelweiss Air a340-300's. What are they getting replaced with? 789's?

AECM · Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:06 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
Hey, what about the 4 Edelweiss Air a340-300's. What are they getting replaced with? 789's?

On the short term probably with some A333 if required but most likely they will stick around for a few more time. Looking at the future either A333, A339, A359 or B789 will depend on the business case, does Edelweiss has their own pool of crew or they are "shared" with other group companies?

DALCE · Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:17 pm

Last I heard is that they will be around till 2026, ans I expect 350’s will replace them.

Cardude2 · Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:38 pm

DALCE wrote:
Last I heard is that they will be around till 2026, ans I expect 350’s will replace them.

Edelweiss a359's, huh intresting. Not surprised though

54678264582 · Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:04 am

AECM wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
Hey, what about the 4 Edelweiss Air a340-300's. What are they getting replaced with? 789's?

On the short term probably with some A333 if required but most likely they will stick around for a few more time. Looking at the future either A333, A339, A359 or B789 will depend on the business case, does Edelweiss has their own pool of crew or they are "shared" with other group companies?

Why would they replace the A340s with the A333s when they just got rid of the A333s earlier this year?

aemoreira1981 · Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:38 am

Polot wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
Also this means that there is huge overlap with the 350s and 777s.

I’m guessing they will be A359s, which are much smaller than the 77W LX operates.

I could see the B77Ws being swapped to LH with a denser configuration to replace the B744s. The A359 makes much more sense at LX, as a premium-heavy airline, with 4 classes. One is looking at perhaps 270-290 seats on those A359s. Yes the front of the plane is what sells, but 320 seats on an LX plane seems like way too much plane, especially since their densest configuration before was with 236 seats total. Then at LX, you have only three pilot groups: A220, A320/A321, and A330/A350, eliminating the B777, which can fly at LH (DLH) along with LH (GEC): B77L(F)/B77W/B779/B789.

Have B789 routes been announced for LH yet?

ben7x · Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:02 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Polot wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
Also this means that there is huge overlap with the 350s and 777s.

I’m guessing they will be A359s, which are much smaller than the 77W LX operates.

I could see the B77Ws being swapped to LH with a denser configuration to replace the B744s. The A359 makes much more sense at LX, as a premium-heavy airline, with 4 classes. One is looking at perhaps 270-290 seats on those A359s. Yes the front of the plane is what sells, but 320 seats on an LX plane seems like way too much plane, especially since their densest configuration before was with 236 seats total. Then at LX, you have only three pilot groups: A220, A320/A321, and A330/A350, eliminating the B777, which can fly at LH (DLH) along with LH (GEC): B77L(F)/B77W/B779/B789.

Have B789 routes been announced for LH yet?

1. I don’t think so.
2. FRA-YYZ

AECM · Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:11 am

777luver wrote:
AECM wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
Hey, what about the 4 Edelweiss Air a340-300's. What are they getting replaced with? 789's?

On the short term probably with some A333 if required but most likely they will stick around for a few more time. Looking at the future either A333, A339, A359 or B789 will depend on the business case, does Edelweiss has their own pool of crew or they are "shared" with other group companies?

Why would they replace the A340s with the A333s when they just got rid of the A333s earlier this year?

If required on the short term the A333 is the most available option for a more efficient aircraft with the same pilot type rating. Now will they dot it? No I don't think so, I believe the A343 at Edelweiss will stick around for some time.

JerseyFlyer · Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:34 pm

Sam Chui seems to have taken from his interview with Spohr that the 4 ex-PAL 350s are going to Swiss, whereas the EAF link suggests Swiss have 5 350s "on order"

"Lufthansa signed recently also a leasing contract for a further four Airbus A350-900s. To my understanding, the A350s are expected to operate for Swiss International Air Lines."

https://samchui.com/2021/10/21/intervie ... XQOahrMKM-
https://sites.google.com/view/europeana ... /swr/lxswr

LXA340 · Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:53 pm

For SWISS to receive the A359 as replacement of the A343 by 2025, this seems to be a given. Eventually we would see the A359 to replace the A333 fleet of LX by around 2030. In the longer term future when it comes to replace the 77W's LX could replace these with the A35X or a combination of both A359 and A35X.

Blerg · Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:59 pm

According to Austrian Airlines' Instagram page, OE-LAW was retired. It operated its last commercial flights to New York on Saturday.
I am curious to see what kind of network they operate next summer and what will be cut unless they expand their long-haul fleet.

mercure1 · Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:54 pm

As part of earnings report today, Swiss announced in order to achieve financial savings it withdraw older aircraft of the Airbus A320 family earlier than planned and deferred deliveries of new Airbus A320neo family aircraft. Five Airbus A330s have been temporarily stored to downsize the long-haul aircraft fleet.

https://swiss.newsmarket.com/english/fi ... d5c75e7fae

a2b7 · Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:53 pm

mercure1 wrote:
As part of earnings report today, Swiss announced in order to achieve financial savings it withdraw older aircraft of the Airbus A320 family earlier than planned and deferred deliveries of new Airbus A320neo family aircraft. Five Airbus A330s have been temporarily stored to downsize the long-haul aircraft fleet.

https://swiss.newsmarket.com/english/fi ... d5c75e7fae

According to planespotters.net, Swiss has withdrawn two A320s so far this year, HB-IJD and HB-IJE. Both were 25 years old at retirement, but I am not sure if they were retired earlier than planned.

columba · Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:40 am

Lufthansa is interested in more A220 for its regional fleet:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/lufthansa-w ... -1.1676294

hervebkk · Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:45 am

a2b7 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
As part of earnings report today, Swiss announced in order to achieve financial savings it withdraw older aircraft of the Airbus A320 family earlier than planned and deferred deliveries of new Airbus A320neo family aircraft. Five Airbus A330s have been temporarily stored to downsize the long-haul aircraft fleet.

https://swiss.newsmarket.com/english/fi ... d5c75e7fae

According to planespotters.net, Swiss has withdrawn two A320s so far this year, HB-IJD and HB-IJE. Both were 25 years old at retirement, but I am not sure if they were retired earlier than planned.

There are 6 A320 parked in AMM, all from 1996-1998, high probability they will never see the Swiss skies ever again.... so these may be "used" for the "early retirement argument".....

DALCE · Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:34 pm

last week 3 ex SR A321-100's also went to AMM, be it for storage, be it for MX. My guess is that they will not come back into LX operation.

frigatebird · Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:17 pm

columba wrote:
Lufthansa is interested in more A220 for its regional fleet:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/lufthansa-w ... -1.1676294

Thanks for sharing. Great sign airlines like LH are looking to invest in new aircraft again.

I think the A220 will be a great addition to the LH (Cityline?) fleet. I suppose they are looking to replace the A319 and the older CR9 aircraft? IMO SN could really use the A223 as A319 replacement too, although I don't rule out LH may shift their remaining E195's to SN, just as they did to Austrian Airlines. Maybe SN could get some additional A320neo's as consolation :sigh:

That being said, what would be the chance of LH ordering Embraer E2's? Article says LH invited Embraer to send a proposal too.

efg1588 · Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:32 pm

a2b7 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
As part of earnings report today, Swiss announced in order to achieve financial savings it withdraw older aircraft of the Airbus A320 family earlier than planned and deferred deliveries of new Airbus A320neo family aircraft. Five Airbus A330s have been temporarily stored to downsize the long-haul aircraft fleet.

https://swiss.newsmarket.com/english/fi ... d5c75e7fae

According to planespotters.net, Swiss has withdrawn two A320s so far this year, HB-IJD and HB-IJE. Both were 25 years old at retirement, but I am not sure if they were retired earlier than planned.

Just saw HB-IJE on final at BOS as LX5180. Caught me off guard seeing an LX A320 out my window here in the USA. Looks like it came from KEF on the way to ROW for retirement.

Cardude2 · Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:37 pm

frigatebird wrote:
columba wrote:
Lufthansa is interested in more A220 for its regional fleet:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/lufthansa-w ... -1.1676294

Thanks for sharing. Great sign airlines like LH are looking to invest in new aircraft again.

I think the A220 will be a great addition to the LH (Cityline?) fleet. I suppose they are looking to replace the A319 and the older CR9 aircraft? IMO SN could really use the A223 as A319 replacement too, although I don't rule out LH may shift their remaining E195's to SN, just as they did to Austrian Airlines. Maybe SN could get some additional A320neo's as consolation

That being said, what would be the chance of LH ordering Embraer E2's? Article says LH invited Embraer to send a proposal too.

CityLine is a good guess but it also could be Lufthansa itself which has the oldest a319 and/or Brussels airlines since their a319 are aging themselves and the recently lost ssj100's.

a2b7 · Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:44 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
columba wrote:
Lufthansa is interested in more A220 for its regional fleet:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/lufthansa-w ... -1.1676294

Thanks for sharing. Great sign airlines like LH are looking to invest in new aircraft again.

I think the A220 will be a great addition to the LH (Cityline?) fleet. I suppose they are looking to replace the A319 and the older CR9 aircraft? IMO SN could really use the A223 as A319 replacement too, although I don't rule out LH may shift their remaining E195's to SN, just as they did to Austrian Airlines. Maybe SN could get some additional A320neo's as consolation

That being said, what would be the chance of LH ordering Embraer E2's? Article says LH invited Embraer to send a proposal too.

CityLine is a good guess but it also could be Lufthansa itself which has the oldest a319 and/or Brussels airlines since their a319 are aging themselves and the recently lost ssj100's.

The narrowbody fleet that is in need of replacement most, where no replacement has been ordered, are the old A319s at LH / LH Cityline, although the 7 Austrian A319s will maybe replace some of them. Indeed the A223 would be a good replacement. The A221 could also replace some CRJ900 or E190/E195 at LH Cityline, although those fleets aren't that old yet.
I think that it is likely that LH group orders E2s at some point; they would be a great fit for Air Dolomiti for example, but the oldest E190/E195 are only 12 years old.

A321Lufthansa · Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:28 pm

Why has D-AIBM got stuck at BTS? It was planned to fly back to MUC at first on Monday, then on Tuesday, but it's still there...

eamondzhang · Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:59 am

a2b7 wrote:
although the 7 Austrian A319s will maybe replace some of them

E195s are replacing A319s at Austrian with the last three going to Cityline by Jan'22, according to EAF Fleet site.

However, OS also has a sizable A320s and A321s that needs replacement soon - they're older than those A319s!

Michael

columba · Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:47 am

Aero.de reports that the A220s - if ordered . would be part of Cityline.

Opus99 · Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:56 am

columba wrote:
Aero.de reports that the A220s - if ordered . would be part of Cityline.

that would make tremendous sense IMO, so are we looking at 220-100s?

frigatebird · Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:42 pm

Opus99 wrote:
columba wrote:
Aero.de reports that the A220s - if ordered . would be part of Cityline.

that would make tremendous sense IMO, so are we looking at 220-100s?

Cityline operates A319s too, so I guess -300s would be the most logical. A221s would be a surprise, but LH is known for surprise orders sometimes

I suppose the CRJ's will stay, will the E195s all go to other airlines within the LH group?

Opus99 · Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:45 pm

frigatebird wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
columba wrote:
Aero.de reports that the A220s - if ordered . would be part of Cityline.

that would make tremendous sense IMO, so are we looking at 220-100s?

Cityline operates A319s too, so I guess -300s would be the most logical. A221s would be a surprise, but LH is known for surprise orders sometimes

I suppose the CRJ's will stay, will the E195s all go to other airlines within the LH group?

even better, love the 220s

DUSZRH · Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:50 pm

frigatebird wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
columba wrote:
Aero.de reports that the A220s - if ordered . would be part of Cityline.

that would make tremendous sense IMO, so are we looking at 220-100s?

Cityline operates A319s too, so I guess -300s would be the most logical. A221s would be a surprise, but LH is known for surprise orders sometimes

I suppose the CRJ's will stay, will the E195s all go to other airlines within the LH group?

It’s for the replacement of the CRJs and A319s.

The E jets were leaving to EN, however that was cancelled/stopped during covid.

marcogr12 · Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:12 pm

But the CRJs have a few years left in them...And if they leave what would LH would have in the 100-seat category if they go for the A223s and not E2-jets?

columba · Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:45 am

frigatebird wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
columba wrote:
Aero.de reports that the A220s - if ordered . would be part of Cityline.

that would make tremendous sense IMO, so are we looking at 220-100s?

Cityline operates A319s too, so I guess -300s would be the most logical. A221s would be a surprise, but LH is known for surprise orders sometimes

I think Lufthansa would order some -100s for their London City operation....

Cardude2 · Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:18 am

marcogr12 wrote:
But the CRJs have a few years left in them...And if they leave what would LH would have in the 100-seat category if they go for the A223s and not E2-jets?

A220-100, or a later order

ordell · Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:38 am

Any German speakers here? I figured out that the plane had been grounded a year before retirement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLv9XRts27U

Bonus: the legend Jurgen Raps makes an appearance

ordell · Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:10 am

Never mind, I see it has English subtitles.

DUSZRH · Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:31 am

marcogr12 wrote:
But the CRJs have a few years left in them...And if they leave what would LH would have in the 100-seat category if they go for the A223s and not E2-jets?

E90s/e95s.

The small categories are slowly dying, as LH figured out it’s cheaper to fly the bigger plane and sell some promotional fares.

Capricorn · Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:04 pm

DUSZRH wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
But the CRJs have a few years left in them...And if they leave what would LH would have in the 100-seat category if they go for the A223s and not E2-jets?

E90s/e95s.

The small categories are slowly dying, as LH figured out it’s cheaper to fly the bigger plane and sell some promotional fares.

I think this is fundamentally true. In Europe, legacies these days either serve a marked with an oversized plane like the E190\195-E2 or the A220-100 and discount some seats, abandon a market, or if a market is critically important but too few passengers to serve with a A220-100, they can still wet-lease smaller planes to serve these markets. Actually LX is doing that with Helvetic (2L) that operates some E190s on behalf of LX. I actually cant see LHG to again operate planes below 100 Seats. They got rid of the Dash 8s at OS, LX now operates A200-100 or bigger, and there were no recent indications that LH mainline is interested in the category below 100 seats.

ordell · Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:24 pm

Lufthansa has also retired its last MD-11F. Video has English subs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Y9yi-yraA

The MD-11F final flight is intercut with video behind the scenes at FRA, reminiscent of the show "X-Ray Mega Airport."

mxaxai · Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:55 pm

Capricorn wrote:
if a market is critically important but too few passengers to serve with a A220-100, they can still wet-lease smaller planes to serve these markets.

From 2016 to 2019, LH had contracted flybmi / bmi regional to serve smaller hub feeder routes with ERJ-145. I think that was their only 50-seater operation since they decided to retire the CRJ-200 in 2011.

Other small aircraft have been retired since then. The contract with Augsburg Airways, who operated the Q400 at the time, was cancelled in 2013. The Avro RJ85 in LH colors was retired in 2012, Swiss kept flying the RJ100 until 2017. Eurowings successively retired the CR2 and CR7 flying for LH, as well as the CR9 flying for Germanwings until 2017. Air Dolomiti replaced their ATR fleet with E-jets in 2012.

You can see that LHG can easily outsource smaller planes to regional partners but the overall trend is still towards larger jets.

zkojq · Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:43 am

Austrian's Boeing 767-300 OE-LAW has arrived in St Athan, presumably for part-out and scrap.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/iangpics/51687501642

NZ321 · Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:09 pm

zkojq wrote:
Austrian's Boeing 767-300 OE-LAW has arrived in St Athan, presumably for part-out and scrap.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/iangpics/51687501642

Looks like it was the only 763 with premium economy... C26W18Y167

nipkow · Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:28 pm

NZ321 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Austrian's Boeing 767-300 OE-LAW has arrived in St Athan, presumably for part-out and scrap.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/iangpics/51687501642

Looks like it was the only 763 with premium economy... C26W18Y167

Every OS wide body is fitted with premium economy seats.

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