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Boeing757100
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Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:24 pm

Welcome to 2021 everyone! Hope everyone had a good holiday season!

Some things to discuss

- ATL possibly being overtaken as the busiest airport
- New DL services from ATL
- Route cuts or any other news relevant to the airport.
Last edited by SQ22 on Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Typo fixed
 
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qf789
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Re: Atlanta aviation thread 2021

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:26 pm

 
Delta350
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Re: Atlanta aviation thread 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:37 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
Welcome to 2021 everyone! Hope everyone had a good holiday season!

Some things to discuss

- ATL possibly being overtaken as the busiest airport
- New DL services from ATL
- Route cuts or any other news relevant to the airport.

Doubt it will be overtaken.
 
Delta350
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Re: Atlanta aviation thread 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:37 am

Is there a possibility of Breeze airlines serving ATL?
 
micstatic
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Re: Atlanta aviation thread 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:33 pm

It will be atleast a half year of much slower operations for airlines due to covid. So I would think atlanta will not be the busiest in 2021.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Atlanta aviation thread 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:46 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
- ATL possibly being overtaken as the busiest airport


To be overtaken by what other airport?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Atlanta aviation thread 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:52 pm

Delta350 wrote:
Is there a possibility of Breeze airlines serving ATL?


From ATL to where, specifically? Then look at DL frequencies ATL-XXX, and the number of other carriers and frequencies ATL-XXX, and the LCCs on ATL-XXX. Breeze could certainly find demand on ATL-FLL ($42 Spirit fares already), ATL-MIA ($33 on F9), ATL-NYC ($33) or ATL-MCO ($33 on F9). How they make a profit is the question.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Atlanta aviation thread 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:34 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
- ATL possibly being overtaken as the busiest airport


To be overtaken by what other airport?




DFW, DXB, HND to list a few
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:23 pm

In the late 2020s, could DL possibly add some European routes from ATL?

I think VIE, DME, and PRG could work seasonally. Also possibly EDI or KEF????? (all seasonal)

I'd also like to see an Indian route from ATL to BOM or something. These are all wild guesses and personal preferences of mine, but I think an Indian route could work from DL (at least in the summer) because of the high percentage of Indian population in ATL/suburbs, not to mention VIE worked a few years ago. I don't exactly know about the others, but they are all personal preferences.
 
x1234
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:37 pm

India is notoriously low yielding but UA has found out its higher yielding from key global cities (SFO, ORD, EWR) due to COVID and the EU stop many are opting for non-stops. Its high time DL resumed JFK-BOM.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:40 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
In the late 2020s, could DL possibly add some European routes from ATL?

I think VIE, DME, and PRG could work seasonally. Also possibly EDI or KEF????? (all seasonal)

I'd also like to see an Indian route from ATL to BOM or something. These are all wild guesses and personal preferences of mine, but I think an Indian route could work from DL (at least in the summer) because of the high percentage of Indian population in ATL/suburbs, not to mention VIE worked a few years ago. I don't exactly know about the others, but they are all personal preferences.


MOW and PRG have already been tried from ATL and didn’t last. Service from JFK is likely the only choice for those two along with VIE, which is very seasonal. ATL will continue to support partner flying into the foreseeable future along with some seasonal routes on DL metal. It’s up to DALPA to determine how fair that has to its members.
 
Delta350
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:43 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
In the late 2020s, could DL possibly add some European routes from ATL?

I think VIE, DME, and PRG could work seasonally. Also possibly EDI or KEF????? (all seasonal)

I'd also like to see an Indian route from ATL to BOM or something. These are all wild guesses and personal preferences of mine, but I think an Indian route could work from DL (at least in the summer) because of the high percentage of Indian population in ATL/suburbs, not to mention VIE worked a few years ago. I don't exactly know about the others, but they are all personal preferences.

Maybe even HAM
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:50 pm

Delta350 wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
In the late 2020s, could DL possibly add some European routes from ATL?

I think VIE, DME, and PRG could work seasonally. Also possibly EDI or KEF????? (all seasonal)

I'd also like to see an Indian route from ATL to BOM or something. These are all wild guesses and personal preferences of mine, but I think an Indian route could work from DL (at least in the summer) because of the high percentage of Indian population in ATL/suburbs, not to mention VIE worked a few years ago. I don't exactly know about the others, but they are all personal preferences.

Maybe even HAM





They haven't tried HAM at all from ATL or JFK. At least with the others, they've tried them before, and have an idea of what demand they captured and what demand they could capture in the future. They already serve(d) a lot of cities in Germany, so I don't know if they have enough wiggle room to try out HAM.
 
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:55 pm

Maybe this should be in an individual thread, but I think it is noteworthy to talk about the possibility of ATL-TLV from DL. JFK route was profitable enough, so I think this could be possible.
 
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Polot
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:30 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
Maybe this should be in an individual thread, but I think it is noteworthy to talk about the possibility of ATL-TLV from DL. JFK route was profitable enough, so I think this could be possible.

They use to fly the route but dropped it almost a decade ago. The big issue is that it is a fairly long route that needed the 777, and with a limited fleet of those ATL-TLV never performed well enough in comparison to other routes that the plane could be used on. Perhaps with a larger A339 fleet in the future it could work, assuming that plane has no issues on the route most of the time.
 
Delta350
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:16 pm

There’s an United 787-10 flying in from Frankfurt, UA2799. Does anyone know the reason why?
 
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klm617
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:55 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
Delta350 wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
In the late 2020s, could DL possibly add some European routes from ATL?

I think VIE, DME, and PRG could work seasonally. Also possibly EDI or KEF????? (all seasonal)

I'd also like to see an Indian route from ATL to BOM or something. These are all wild guesses and personal preferences of mine, but I think an Indian route could work from DL (at least in the summer) because of the high percentage of Indian population in ATL/suburbs, not to mention VIE worked a few years ago. I don't exactly know about the others, but they are all personal preferences.

Maybe even HAM





They haven't tried HAM at all from ATL or JFK. At least with the others, they've tried them before, and have an idea of what demand they captured and what demand they could capture in the future. They already serve(d) a lot of cities in Germany, so I don't know if they have enough wiggle room to try out HAM.


Hamburg has been flown from Atlanta before.
 
Delta28L
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:54 pm

Delta350 wrote:
There’s an United 787-10 flying in from Frankfurt, UA2799. Does anyone know the reason why?


Cargo charter
 
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bluestreak
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:44 pm

I suppose the TUI 789 from LGW is also a cargo flight? I saw it land, but didn’t see where it parked.

Good to see something different here.
 
gdavis003
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:01 pm

bluestreak wrote:
I suppose the TUI 789 from LGW is also a cargo flight? I saw it land, but didn’t see where it parked.

Good to see something different here.


Yep. Parking at South Cargo Ramp. Air Canada was running cargo on 787s as well, but I’m not sure if that is still going. They were parking at South Cargo Ramp also
 
Bradlee102896
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:28 pm

What kind of cargo would originate or terminate in Atlanta though? I can’t think of anything special about the city in regards to freight. I just notice a lot of cargo flights into Atlanta by lots of different companies even before Covid-19.
 
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:04 am

With the recent adds that WN has made at ATL such as the return of ATL-SDF/OKC nonstop service and the addition of ATL-JAN/LIT/MEM/OMA nonstop service, there are still some more adds that could be made by WN out of ATL such as the addition of ATL-ABQ/BUF/CLT/ORD/CVG/IAH/MIA/PWM/ROC/SMF/SLC/SRQ/TUL/ICT and the return of ATL-BOS/DTW/MSP nonstop service.
 
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:39 am

I'm just glad to finally get to see some 787s. Good day today catching the BA 789 and 78X, AF 787, and TUI 787. The 78X came out of the South Cargo ramp.
How long has Signature been running off spotters? Today was the first time in 30+ years I was asked to leave. New terminal = new rules?
 
777Mech
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:43 am

Bradlee102896 wrote:
What kind of cargo would originate or terminate in Atlanta though? I can’t think of anything special about the city in regards to freight. I just notice a lot of cargo flights into Atlanta by lots of different companies even before Covid-19.


Manufacturing. There are many auto and heavy machinery manufacturers within a few hours drive to/from ATL. VW in CHA, Kia in LGC, and Daimler Trucks in GSP.

You also have Kubota, SANY, CAT and Komatsu manufacturing facilities all in GA.

The supply chains for these facilities are still disrupted due to COVID.
 
777Mech
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:47 am

Beedo46 wrote:
I'm just glad to finally get to see some 787s. Good day today catching the BA 789 and 78X, AF 787, and TUI 787. The 78X came out of the South Cargo ramp.
How long has Signature been running off spotters? Today was the first time in 30+ years I was asked to leave. New terminal = new rules?


The airport in general is cracking down on anyone hanging out at the fence line or loitering in general. You can blame the guy who scaled the fence and jumped on the wing of the -88 for that.

The best bet now is the parking deck or cell lot.
 
mjba257
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Re: Atlanta aviation thread 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:51 am

Delta350 wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
Welcome to 2021 everyone! Hope everyone had a good holiday season!

Some things to discuss

- ATL possibly being overtaken as the busiest airport
- New DL services from ATL
- Route cuts or any other news relevant to the airport.

Doubt it will be overtaken.


It may already have been after COVID. Chinese domestic market is back to pre-COVID levels while US is still below capacity. Considering how large and fast-growing the Chinese domestic market is and that PEK has rapidly been ascending in ranks, not unreasonable to assume PEK will be the world's busiest airport, a title ATL will likely never regain once lost. Prediction for the future is that the busiest airport status will be a contest between PEK, HND, and DXB
 
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:55 am

777Mech wrote:
Beedo46 wrote:
I'm just glad to finally get to see some 787s. Good day today catching the BA 789 and 78X, AF 787, and TUI 787. The 78X came out of the South Cargo ramp.
How long has Signature been running off spotters? Today was the first time in 30+ years I was asked to leave. New terminal = new rules?


The airport in general is cracking down on anyone hanging out at the fence line or loitering in general. You can blame the guy who scaled the fence and jumped on the wing of the -88 for that.

The best bet now is the parking deck or cell lot.


Thanks. The staff did recommend the cell lot and I was glad all of the 787s came in on the South side.
 
mjba257
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:56 am

What are the odds of ATL-HKG on DL? Is there a business demand? DL currently is not flying into HKG and there are very limited onward connections on SkyTeam partners, so the route would almost solely be dependent on business traffic between the two
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:58 am

mjba257 wrote:
Is there a business demand?

What pandemic?
 
mjba257
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:04 am

ArcticSEA wrote:
mjba257 wrote:
Is there a business demand?

What pandemic?


I'm speaking in terms of post-COVID. And post-protests. Pre-covid, was there a demand for ATL-HKG?
 
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:14 am

mjba257 wrote:
What are the odds of ATL-HKG on DL? Is there a business demand? DL currently is not flying into HKG and there are very limited onward connections on SkyTeam partners, so the route would almost solely be dependent on business traffic between the two




Nope, probably too long and thin for DL. If DL's flying to HKG, it's through SEA, not ATL. But then again, Korean flies to HKG and they can codeshare from Seoul Incheon.
 
mjba257
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:20 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
mjba257 wrote:
What are the odds of ATL-HKG on DL? Is there a business demand? DL currently is not flying into HKG and there are very limited onward connections on SkyTeam partners, so the route would almost solely be dependent on business traffic between the two




Nope, probably too long and thin for DL. If DL's flying to HKG, it's through SEA, not ATL. But then again, Korean flies to HKG and they can codeshare from Seoul Incheon.


Your probably right. The route would be almost entirely dependent on O&D as HKG is not a SkyTeam hub and ATL is poorly positioned geographically for connecting passengers going Asia, unless they live in FL. But one can wonder
 
Delta350
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:46 am

I’m surprised no one has mentioned the former Sheraton convention center complex will be imploded later this year in preparation for the 6th runway.
 
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:09 am

Delta350 wrote:
I’m surprised no one has mentioned the former Sheraton convention center complex will be imploded later this year in preparation for the 6th runway.


I wouldn't be surprised if the project got put on hold for a couple of years. It won't be be needed for a long time.
 
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:09 pm

777Mech wrote:
Delta350 wrote:
I’m surprised no one has mentioned the former Sheraton convention center complex will be imploded later this year in preparation for the 6th runway.


I wouldn't be surprised if the project got put on hold for a couple of years. It won't be be needed for a long time.

they own the land so will the runway construct will be put on hold i suspect the demolition will be done soon so as to avoid questions
 
Delta350
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:28 pm

Did anyone mention United 3x-weekly(Sunday,Wednesday and Friday) FRA-ATL cargo flights with the 787-10?
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:31 pm

mjba257 wrote:
What are the odds of ATL-HKG on DL? Is there a business demand? DL currently is not flying into HKG and there are very limited onward connections on SkyTeam partners, so the route would almost solely be dependent on business traffic between the two


Very low. There wasnt a whole lot of demand before the pandemic and I shudder to think of what it is now.

If they go back to HKG it would be from SEA or DTW and even that is a long way away. Were at a point where airports across the country will be lucky to keep what they had pre-pandemic. Anything new will be short haul leisure based.
 
ethernal
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:08 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
mjba257 wrote:
What are the odds of ATL-HKG on DL? Is there a business demand? DL currently is not flying into HKG and there are very limited onward connections on SkyTeam partners, so the route would almost solely be dependent on business traffic between the two


Very low. There wasnt a whole lot of demand before the pandemic and I shudder to think of what it is now.

If they go back to HKG it would be from SEA or DTW and even that is a long way away. Were at a point where airports across the country will be lucky to keep what they had pre-pandemic. Anything new will be short haul leisure based.


Yeah. I mean, ATL-HKG wouldn't have worked even pre-COVID and pre-China takeover of Hong Kong. Post-COVID and post-China takeover? Hah!
 
bravoindia
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:17 pm

British United bringing cargo 78Xs and TUI running 789s cargo each at least 3x per week. I know United is S-W-F
 
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:20 pm

DL's triangle ATL-JNB-CPT-ATL has been delayed once again. Any other (possibly non-Africa) flights that were due to be introduced but are delayed?
 
F9LASDEN
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:46 pm

F9 is planning on opening a crew base at ATL in late 2021.

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... anta-base/
 
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:14 pm

I was checking out Flightradar24 a few moments ago and found an EVA Air 777-300ER flying in. Did they just started having flights from ATL-TPE? I usually don't come on as often as I had before but this is a surprise for me. Must of missed a lot stuff....

Here's proof just incase: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/EVA ... /RCTP/KATL
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:35 pm

Narfish641 wrote:
I was checking out Flightradar24 a few moments ago and found an EVA Air 777-300ER flying in. Did they just started having flights from ATL-TPE? I usually don't come on as often as I had before but this is a surprise for me. Must of missed a lot stuff....

Here's proof just incase: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/EVA ... /RCTP/KATL





Its probably a cargo only flight
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:45 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
Narfish641 wrote:
I was checking out Flightradar24 a few moments ago and found an EVA Air 777-300ER flying in. Did they just started having flights from ATL-TPE? I usually don't come on as often as I had before but this is a surprise for me. Must of missed a lot stuff....

Here's proof just incase: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/EVA ... /RCTP/KATL





Its probably a cargo only flight


Confirmed, and they park on the South Cargo (International Freight) ramp.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 0#26f7d7e5
 
Runway765
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Why didn’t ATL build an eastern terminal when Concourse E opened in 1994?

Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:35 am

Back when Concourse E opened at ATL, from then until Concourse F and the International Terminal opened in 2012, one had to clear customs and recheck bags/re-clear security just to go to the main terminal to exit the airport. Why didn’t they just build the international terminal/eastern entrance at ATL from the get go in the mid-90s to avoid this? Was there not enough traffic to justify it?
 
luckyone
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Re: Why didn’t ATL build an eastern terminal when Concourse E opened in 1994?

Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:38 am

Runway765 wrote:
Back when Concourse E opened at ATL, from then until Concourse F and the International Terminal opened in 2012, one had to clear customs and recheck bags/re-clear security just to go to the main terminal to exit the airport. Why didn’t they just build the international terminal/eastern entrance at ATL from the get go in the mid-90s to avoid this? Was there not enough traffic to justify it?

Money, time, space. Concourse E was a less-than-optimal solution built to open in time for the 1996 Olympics. After that, recall that most of the traffic would be connecting and the arrangement isn’t a major issue for those passengers. At the time, there was also a substantial piece of infrastructure where F now sits, which would’ve impacted time, space, and money because the terminal and road network would’ve been costly (the ‘96 Olympics were done on the cheap side) and likely wouldn't have have been needed at the time. I forget exactly what it was, but ultimately this was moved, taking the place of a maintenance facility if I’m not mistaken.
 
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:19 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
Delta350 wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
In the late 2020s, could DL possibly add some European routes from ATL?

I think VIE, DME, and PRG could work seasonally. Also possibly EDI or KEF????? (all seasonal)

I'd also like to see an Indian route from ATL to BOM or something. These are all wild guesses and personal preferences of mine, but I think an Indian route could work from DL (at least in the summer) because of the high percentage of Indian population in ATL/suburbs, not to mention VIE worked a few years ago. I don't exactly know about the others, but they are all personal preferences.

Maybe even HAM





They haven't tried HAM at all from ATL or JFK. At least with the others, they've tried them before, and have an idea of what demand they captured and what demand they could capture in the future. They already serve(d) a lot of cities in Germany, so I don't know if they have enough wiggle room to try out HAM.


Delta has flown Atlanta - Hamburg from 1989-1995 and from 1998-2000. They also flew JFK-HAM from 1991-1995 (inherited from Pan Am).

Flights had decent loads, ATL-HAM was flown via LGW with L1011s until 1991, then with the 767-300ER nonstop with a Tag-On to TXL.
JFK was (partly via AMS) with A310s (+occasional 767s), with a lot of nonstops in Summer and few nonstops in Winter.
With Leadership 7.5 Delta ditched the A310s, which meant they had to axe a lot of transatlantic routes. They switched to ATL-HAM-CPH-JFK on 767s ditching ATL-TXL completely and not even a year later canceled that whole flight leaving HAM and CPH altogether, with the promise to return to HAM when things get better at Delta.

They kept their promise and announced a new nonstop flight ATL-HAM not even two years later, canceling JFK-TXL at the same time, which meant leaving Berlin altogether.
The flight again had good loads, there was just a problem to fill the Business Cabin, as Delta equipped their 767-300ER with an incredible 48(!) Business Class seats when kicking international First Class and installing the new Business Elite. This was way too much seats for markets like Hamburg in the late 90s, the result again was the cancelation of a number of transatlantic routes. As SkyTeam was just founded they could now leave these markets but still serve them via CDG on Air France. Something that Air France liked a lot!

Nowadays (and assuming that traffic recovers to at least near the amount of traffic of pre-COVID in the coming years) Delta would be sucessful serving Hamburg IMO. Atlanta - Hamburg would be a better choice than JFK - Hamburg I think. While New York has a very high O&D potential ATL is a huge Hub in the southeast, connecting to places that have very strong Business Traffic from HAM (HAM-ATL, HAM-Texas for example) and very strong overall+high yielding Traffic on HAM-Florida. Also these markets are less seasonal than HAM-NYC, Florida is strong in Winter, also Business Traffic is strong throughout the year without that huge peak in Summer and big drops in Winter. Another advantage of ATL service over JFK would be much less risk of direct competition.
Also Delta still - after all these years - has a very good reputation in Hamburg, unlike a certain other big US Airline that is not called American ...

Image

Image
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:20 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
They already serve(d) a lot of cities in Germany, so I don't know if they have enough wiggle room to try out HAM.


HAM was Deltas fourth gernan city a few years after Stuttgart.
Dont underestimate Hamburg, it has a very strong Economy, the region around the city is the richest in Germany and the fourth richest in the EU. HAMs catchment is 10 million people (within 2 hours by car) and there is little overlap to other big airports.

Pre-COVID there were around 450.000 people per year flying between Hamburg and the USA.
One problem is the low number of US tourists visiting the City -- compared to places like Barcelona, Berlin or Prague. But there is a high number of Business travelers, Hamburg originating tourists and strong VFR traffic going to the US a lot of them high yielding and also a lot of people owning second homes (mainly in Florida of course) which makes up for it.

The challenge for Airlines like Delta is that Lufthansa/Star Alliance literally own the Hamburg market. For a non-Star Airline it can be very challenging because they need to steal a certain amount of loyal Star Alliance Status members. The Airline trying needs to have a good product, connections and attractive flying times. Continental managed to be successful with their EWR-HAM flight, even being a SkyTeam Airline, and still only flew around 20% of all passengers traveling HAM-USA. Emirates was not successful -- amazing product but crap departure/arrival times and zero connections in JFK (+CO competition). United at the end was not able to attract enough passengers even being a Star Airline, but thats another story :roll: .

To come to an end: I am certain that Delta is one non-Star Airline that can be successful establishing a flight from HAM. Amazing product, good reputation, reliable (all what United lacked) and good connectivity in Atlanta. Other two that would be successful IMO are JetBlue and Emirates.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:22 pm

DLHAM wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
They already serve(d) a lot of cities in Germany, so I don't know if they have enough wiggle room to try out HAM.


HAM was Deltas fourth gernan city a few years after Stuttgart.
Dont underestimate Hamburg, it has a very strong Economy, the region around the city is the richest in Germany and the fourth richest in the EU. HAMs catchment is 10 million people (within 2 hours by car) and there is little overlap to other big airports.

Pre-COVID there were around 450.000 people per year flying between Hamburg and the USA.
One problem is the low number of US tourists visiting the City -- compared to places like Barcelona, Berlin or Prague. But there is a high number of Business travelers, Hamburg originating tourists and strong VFR traffic going to the US a lot of them high yielding and also a lot of people owning second homes (mainly in Florida of course) which makes up for it.

The challenge for Airlines like Delta is that Lufthansa/Star Alliance literally own the Hamburg market. For a non-Star Airline it can be very challenging because they need to steal a certain amount of loyal Star Alliance Status members. The Airline trying needs to have a good product, connections and attractive flying times. Continental managed to be successful with their EWR-HAM flight, even being a SkyTeam Airline, and still only flew around 20% of all passengers traveling HAM-USA. Emirates was not successful -- amazing product but crap departure/arrival times and zero connections in JFK (+CO competition). United at the end was not able to attract enough passengers even being a Star Airline, but thats another story :roll: .

To come to an end: I am certain that Delta is one non-Star Airline that can be successful establishing a flight from HAM. Amazing product, good reputation, reliable (all what United lacked) and good connectivity in Atlanta. Other two that would be successful IMO are JetBlue and Emirates.



Yes, I understand all points you have brought up, but will it work post-covid? I mean, I see hope in 10 years from now, but certainly not before.
 
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DLHAM
Posts: 683
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:10 am

Re: Atlanta Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:02 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
They already serve(d) a lot of cities in Germany, so I don't know if they have enough wiggle room to try out HAM.


HAM was Deltas fourth gernan city a few years after Stuttgart.
Dont underestimate Hamburg, it has a very strong Economy, the region around the city is the richest in Germany and the fourth richest in the EU. HAMs catchment is 10 million people (within 2 hours by car) and there is little overlap to other big airports.

Pre-COVID there were around 450.000 people per year flying between Hamburg and the USA.
One problem is the low number of US tourists visiting the City -- compared to places like Barcelona, Berlin or Prague. But there is a high number of Business travelers, Hamburg originating tourists and strong VFR traffic going to the US a lot of them high yielding and also a lot of people owning second homes (mainly in Florida of course) which makes up for it.

The challenge for Airlines like Delta is that Lufthansa/Star Alliance literally own the Hamburg market. For a non-Star Airline it can be very challenging because they need to steal a certain amount of loyal Star Alliance Status members. The Airline trying needs to have a good product, connections and attractive flying times. Continental managed to be successful with their EWR-HAM flight, even being a SkyTeam Airline, and still only flew around 20% of all passengers traveling HAM-USA. Emirates was not successful -- amazing product but crap departure/arrival times and zero connections in JFK (+CO competition). United at the end was not able to attract enough passengers even being a Star Airline, but thats another story :roll: .

To come to an end: I am certain that Delta is one non-Star Airline that can be successful establishing a flight from HAM. Amazing product, good reputation, reliable (all what United lacked) and good connectivity in Atlanta. Other two that would be successful IMO are JetBlue and Emirates.



Yes, I understand all points you have brought up, but will it work post-covid? I mean, I see hope in 10 years from now, but certainly not before.


Yeah thats the big question mark ... Of course I can calculate a healthy demand for a ATL-HAM flight for up to 2019, but these numbers are not useable anymore ... And 2020 numbers are complete garbage.

I think demand will reach levels that come halfway close to 2019 in like 2024-2025. But that is just a guess, lets hope for the best!

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