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Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:28 pm

Welcome to the Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread 2021. Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

Link to previous thread:

Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2020
 
delta767
Posts: 185
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:24 pm

PTI was nominated as a top small airport in the US by USA Today 10 Best. Vote daily on mobile devices and laptop/computers (each vote counts separately) and help spread the word. PTI came in third or fourth last year and could really make the top spot if people get behind it.

https://www.10best.com/awards/travel/be ... -carolina/

Let's do this!
 
eraugrad02
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:37 am

Why isnt this merged to the Carolinas Thread...?
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
gsoflyer
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:13 pm

Aloha is Back on ONT/TUL to/from GSO.

FedEx has ramped up. Surprised the Alaska and American planes are still parked everywhere.
 
norcarolinian
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:06 pm

Allegiant will finally start GSO-BNA on June 3rd with A320s.
A319 A320 A321 A333 AT76 B712 B721 B722 B732 B733 B734 B735 B737 B738 B752 B753 B764 B772 CNA CRJ1 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9 DC87 DC91 DC93 DC95 DH8A DH8B DH8C E140 E145 E170 E175 E190 F27 F100 JS31 JS32 L101 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90 SF34 SWM
 
kfinger
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:07 am

Has there ever been scheduled shuttle service to CLT or RDU?
 
deltairlines
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:36 am

kfinger wrote:
Has there ever been scheduled shuttle service to CLT or RDU?


If talking bus, I can't recall it.

US/AA has long had service to CLT, and back in the days of the AA hub in RDU, they flew RDU-GSO.

When I went to college at Wake, the very few times I flew out of RDU or CLT, I managed to find a friend to ride with that was heading to the area.
 
kfinger
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:51 pm

deltairlines wrote:
kfinger wrote:
Has there ever been scheduled shuttle service to CLT or RDU?


If talking bus, I can't recall it.

US/AA has long had service to CLT, and back in the days of the AA hub in RDU, they flew RDU-GSO.

When I went to college at Wake, the very few times I flew out of RDU or CLT, I managed to find a friend to ride with that was heading to the area.


Yes, I was referring to a bus. If there was good ground transportation, AA could reapply the resources they use to fly GSO-CLT (a measly 90 miles) on another route.
 
Janj
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:13 pm

kfinger wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
kfinger wrote:
Has there ever been scheduled shuttle service to CLT or RDU?


If talking bus, I can't recall it.

US/AA has long had service to CLT, and back in the days of the AA hub in RDU, they flew RDU-GSO.

When I went to college at Wake, the very few times I flew out of RDU or CLT, I managed to find a friend to ride with that was heading to the area.


Yes, I was referring to a bus. If there was good ground transportation, AA could reapply the resources they use to fly GSO-CLT (a measly 90 miles) on another route.


As of a few years ago, there was a shuttle that went from GSO to CLT with a stop at Hanes Mall in Winston-Salem. Not sure if it's still operating.
 
kfinger
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:24 am

Janj wrote:
kfinger wrote:
deltairlines wrote:

If talking bus, I can't recall it.

US/AA has long had service to CLT, and back in the days of the AA hub in RDU, they flew RDU-GSO.

When I went to college at Wake, the very few times I flew out of RDU or CLT, I managed to find a friend to ride with that was heading to the area.


Yes, I was referring to a bus. If there was good ground transportation, AA could reapply the resources they use to fly GSO-CLT (a measly 90 miles) on another route.


As of a few years ago, there was a shuttle that went from GSO to CLT with a stop at Hanes Mall in Winston-Salem. Not sure if it's still operating.


Do you remember the name of the company?
 
gsoflyer
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:27 am

kfinger wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
kfinger wrote:
Has there ever been scheduled shuttle service to CLT or RDU?


If talking bus, I can't recall it.

US/AA has long had service to CLT, and back in the days of the AA hub in RDU, they flew RDU-GSO.

When I went to college at Wake, the very few times I flew out of RDU or CLT, I managed to find a friend to ride with that was heading to the area.


Yes, I was referring to a bus. If there was good ground transportation, AA could reapply the resources they use to fly GSO-CLT (a measly 90 miles) on another route.


If it wasn't profitable, AA wouldn't fly the route with the frequencies that they do. Checkin+wait+connect in GSO is quicker than bus, wait, and hop a direct in Charlotte. I've done both. By this same logic, RDU, GSP, GSO, AVL, FAY, CAE should all be cut. Just silly logic. if the length of the flight were the problem, AA would push the passengers to MIA or PHL instead.

Buses suck. The best bet would be Piedmont train service.
 
norcarolinian
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:09 pm

Spirit relaunches GSO-FLL starting May 6

https://flyfrompti.com/spirit-returns-with-bonus/
A319 A320 A321 A333 AT76 B712 B721 B722 B732 B733 B734 B735 B737 B738 B752 B753 B764 B772 CNA CRJ1 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9 DC87 DC91 DC93 DC95 DH8A DH8B DH8C E140 E145 E170 E175 E190 F27 F100 JS31 JS32 L101 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90 SF34 SWM
 
gsoflyer
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:08 pm

All right Greensboro people....

Apparently Spirit wants a successful GSO and would like to expand GSO service (my hope would be IAH, LAS, and MIA) because the connections on Spirit right now are hard to Latin America and out west. I wish Frontier would add service back to DEN to compliment service. I have no interest in Allegiant expanding (mainly cause they are focusing on Concord to draw from GSO area) or Breeze (since they won't offer anything that Spirit won't).

In other news, the USPS route has been upgraded to a 757 using Asia Pacific Airlines.

Has anyone seen the sheer numbers of oddball USA Jet, Aeronaves TSM flights to and from Willow Run, Toledo, Hickory, Shreveport, Laredo, Monterrey and some other locations. There were close to 8 flights that left this morning on MD-8x and DC9 aircraft (enough to wake up the kids).
 
SMYD
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:14 am

Parts being shipped to automobile plants maybe?
 
delta767
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:17 am

Thanks gsoflyer,

What makes you say that about Spirit? Have you heard any insider news about how its flights are performing? MCO and FLL, are they full? What makes you say they are interested in expanding? That would be amazing, if so. Would really love to see UA add IAH back though for connections, but you're right about it being hard to connect using Spirit's current flight times to the rest of its network.

I remember someone involved in PR with F9 once told me that once F9 exits a city, they almost never return. Or that has not been their record in the past to return. I think PTI would be better off with IAH and DEN on UA anyway, but UA does not seem to be interested in adding much remaining the status quo for years and years.

Glad to see AA offer two mainline flights to DFW plus a third Eagle many days. Surprised, however, that MIA has stayed at 1x with all the Florida competition on low-fare carriers as well as increased demand to warm-weather destinations.

On another note, anyone heard anything about the old Admirals Club? Apparently, AA is looking at studying nearly a dozen cities for an Admirals Club (according to JONNYC on Twitter). I wonder if they would come back with a club since the space still sits empty. I would have thought an Escape Lounge like what GSP has would have opened given GSO has similar traffic levels. Rather disappointing to see it remain empty.

I heard that gates 42 and 44 are finally getting new jet bridges! Maybe 50, too? Ridiculous that AA pushes everything to gates 40, 43, 45, 45 and 51 using stairs for half of them. I wonder if 41 would ever be used as a gate or does Starbucks commandeer the space there?
 
norcarolinian
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:49 pm

LAS and IAH would be great on NK. I think BWI and a return of TPA would be nice as well. Still hoping for BOS be it AA, DL, or NK.

Looks like DL upgauges some flights to 739s on ATL this fall.

Gate 41 is still used I think, at least for RONs. Not sure if any departures use that gate though.
A319 A320 A321 A333 AT76 B712 B721 B722 B732 B733 B734 B735 B737 B738 B752 B753 B764 B772 CNA CRJ1 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9 DC87 DC91 DC93 DC95 DH8A DH8B DH8C E140 E145 E170 E175 E190 F27 F100 JS31 JS32 L101 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90 SF34 SWM
 
Janj
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:11 am

Between the legacies, I think United is the only one that has any ability and (potentially) will to expand. Delta doesn't want to add anything, even MSP would cannibalize DTW, not to mention that any expansion could pull from RDU. AA has everything but Phoenix and LA from Greensboro. They make Phoenix work from RDU once daily, and with something that far, they probably can't add anything from GSO with less capacity. The only potential new routes I see from either are BOS (either) or JFK (for Delta, but this time, aligned with connections to Europe).

However, DEN has two daily flights on UA from RDU, and I'm pretty sure that there were more pre-COVID, including some on E175s (but don't quote me on that). The lack of a Houston flight makes this less likely in my opinion, but if they were to ever resume GSO-IAH, I think Denver might become a possibility from GSO.

As for Spirit, the schedule is really only great for Florida. In my experience, the schedule works acceptably for certain connections. Pre-COVID, they had many flights to Latin America departing in the middle of the night, so the schedule they used to operate worked perfectly, and offering MCO and FLL on alternating days makes roundtrips possible on any day. Lately I've seen some flights in the morning and some in the evening so I don't know what's going on, but there are still some possibilities for connections.
 
gsoflyer
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:31 am

delta767 wrote:
Thanks gsoflyer,

What makes you say that about Spirit? Have you heard any insider news about how its flights are performing? MCO and FLL, are they full? What makes you say they are interested in expanding? That would be amazing, if so. Would really love to see UA add IAH back though for connections, but you're right about it being hard to connect using Spirit's current flight times to the rest of its network.


I really wish F9 would come back to GSO. They were just really convenient. They just dumped GSP too.

Allegiant is not going to expand GSO much, and if they do, it will be only if GSO and SW VA can support it. They're focus is Concord and Asheville now and they think Concord can pull GSO people.

NK. What I'm hearing is that WN is not coming. We may very well be the largest metro in the country without WN ever. I've heard that RDU doesn't want WN here and WN think GSO target people will make the RDU (heck I know from watching 3 companies worth of travel now that international fliers go to CLT and drive up and lots of business fliers go to RDU and drive over). NK is weird. The loads were good before Covid, the loads are ok during it. But loads are only part of the story, its about how much they are making total. What I've heard is that they are testing GSO out and would like to expand if what they have works. I'd fly them a bunch if I could find connections to the city pairs I need. But yes, I heard that they want to focus here since RDU and CLT are saturated and they know they won't have real competition here. Once these flights start working, they'll expand. Like I said, I'd be willing to be on IAH, LAS, MIA would be targets. _IF_ we support and help them grow, so get the word out.

I've flown NK to Lima a few times. It's fine, I'd do it again. I don't expect TPA to be added back.

I have heard other smaller airlines are looking and showing some interest. My guess is maybe Silver and Breeze.
 
gsoflyer
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2001 12:31 pm

Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:36 am

gsoflyer wrote:
delta767 wrote:
Thanks gsoflyer,

What makes you say that about Spirit? Have you heard any insider news about how its flights are performing? MCO and FLL, are they full? What makes you say they are interested in expanding? That would be amazing, if so. Would really love to see UA add IAH back though for connections, but you're right about it being hard to connect using Spirit's current flight times to the rest of its network.


I really wish F9 would come back to GSO. They were just really convenient. They just dumped GSP too.

Allegiant is not going to expand GSO much, and if they do, it will be only if GSO and SW VA can support it. They're focus is Concord and Asheville now and they think Concord can pull GSO people.

NK. What I'm hearing is that WN is not coming. We may very well be the largest metro in the country without WN ever. I've heard that RDU doesn't want WN here and WN think GSO target people will make the RDU (heck I know from watching 3 companies worth of travel now that international fliers go to CLT and drive up and lots of business fliers go to RDU and drive over). NK is weird. The loads were good before Covid, the loads are ok during it. But loads are only part of the story, its about how much they are making total. What I've heard is that they are testing GSO out and would like to expand if what they have works. I'd fly them a bunch if I could find connections to the city pairs I need. But yes, I heard that they want to focus here since RDU and CLT are saturated and they know they won't have real competition here. Once these flights start working, they'll expand. Like I said, I'd be willing to be on IAH, LAS, MIA would be targets. _IF_ we support and help them grow, so get the word out.

Right now, everyone's thought is that serving GSO bleeds off from others. Why serve GSO when they serve CLT, RDU, and Concord. Funny how things change, people used to drive to GSO for these reasons.

I've flown NK to Lima a few times. It's fine, I'd do it again. I don't expect TPA to be added back.

I have heard other smaller airlines are looking and showing some interest. My guess is maybe Silver and Breeze.
 
delta767
Posts: 185
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:54 am

Very impressed to see DL bringing the 739, that’s a lot of capacity! Strange though that WN sees flights to PTI as cannibalizing Raleigh rather than stimulating new demand from the triad or taking traffic from other airlines instead. Why does it have to be WN poaching from WN only? That’s silly.

Fingers crossed NK sees the numbers it wants to see so it can grow more. Agreed that they have no major competition when compared to other airports from the low fare market.

Anyone can comment on what might happen with the old Admirals Club space? It’s sat empty for so long; I am sad to see that wasted space. Even Starbucks cannot manage to stay open all day long due to staff leaving few options later in the day.
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:37 am

delta767 wrote:
Strange though that WN sees flights to PTI as cannibalizing Raleigh rather than stimulating new demand from the triad or taking traffic from other airlines instead. Why does it have to be WN poaching from WN only? That’s silly.


I'm not sure it's that silly. WN is not that big at RDU. Certainly not big enough to pull away from DL and AA. Serving both RDU and GSO would mean loosing the driving traffic. They'd just make it harder for themselves at both stations.

And RDU is an odd airport. With DL and AA going at each other, it's got a disproportionately high number of non-stops with legacies (highest number anywhere outside a hub I believe, until AA finishes its build up at AUS), meaning WN has less of a network advantage than it would typically have with its more p2p oriented business model. It's vulnerable to leakage to the legacies here probably more than anywhere else in the country.
 
gsoflyer
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2001 12:31 pm

Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:25 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
delta767 wrote:
Strange though that WN sees flights to PTI as cannibalizing Raleigh rather than stimulating new demand from the triad or taking traffic from other airlines instead. Why does it have to be WN poaching from WN only? That’s silly.


I'm not sure it's that silly. WN is not that big at RDU. Certainly not big enough to pull away from DL and AA. Serving both RDU and GSO would mean loosing the driving traffic. They'd just make it harder for themselves at both stations.

And RDU is an odd airport. With DL and AA going at each other, it's got a disproportionately high number of non-stops with legacies (highest number anywhere outside a hub I believe, until AA finishes its build up at AUS), meaning WN has less of a network advantage than it would typically have with its more p2p oriented business model. It's vulnerable to leakage to the legacies here probably more than anywhere else in the country.


I’m not even sure it’s that. You have F9 with a big presence, NK just added MIA, And Allegiant is still there in a small capacity. RDU doesn’t just have competition of DL/AA, they have major competition with ULCC compared to the size it really is.

DL wants to own GSO without actually supporting it with JFK, MSP, SLC…. NK has a major opportunity here to sell to a region from LYN and ROA to here with any real competition.

I think the AA would happily lose Allegiant for a scaled up NK
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 227
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:05 pm

gsoflyer wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
delta767 wrote:
Strange though that WN sees flights to PTI as cannibalizing Raleigh rather than stimulating new demand from the triad or taking traffic from other airlines instead. Why does it have to be WN poaching from WN only? That’s silly.


I'm not sure it's that silly. WN is not that big at RDU. Certainly not big enough to pull away from DL and AA. Serving both RDU and GSO would mean loosing the driving traffic. They'd just make it harder for themselves at both stations.

And RDU is an odd airport. With DL and AA going at each other, it's got a disproportionately high number of non-stops with legacies (highest number anywhere outside a hub I believe, until AA finishes its build up at AUS), meaning WN has less of a network advantage than it would typically have with its more p2p oriented business model. It's vulnerable to leakage to the legacies here probably more than anywhere else in the country.


I’m not even sure it’s that. You have F9 with a big presence, NK just added MIA, And Allegiant is still there in a small capacity. RDU doesn’t just have competition of DL/AA, they have major competition with ULCC compared to the size it really is.

DL wants to own GSO without actually supporting it with JFK, MSP, SLC…. NK has a major opportunity here to sell to a region from LYN and ROA to here with any real competition.

I think the AA would happily lose Allegiant for a scaled up NK


I wouldn't call ULCC competition major at RDU. Not at this point in time anyway. F9, which is the largest, barely overs around 5% market share. DL, which is currently the smallest of WN/AA/DL is around 4 times as large. NK serves 3 destinations (incl. MIA) and G4 serves 4, 2 of those on a seasonal basis. Again, I'd say this is down to RDU's unique characteristics. What makes it challenging for WN also makes it a harder market for ULCCs to crack. Let's see how NK does on their new route to MIA. This isn't a fight they've won yet.

DL in GSO is textbook DL in a lot of Southeastern markets: funnel as much as you can through ATL. It's efficient, but unexciting, especially for local origin traffic. It's a strategy they may also come to regret. People increasingly value non-stops. AA's strategy of sacrificing some frequency to offer more destinations has more upsides in the long run IMO. That being said, I agree with Janj's point that, at GSO, AA is probably pretty maxed out and we won't see much growth from them, not in terms of new destinations anyway.

I'd say GSO is actually more ripe for ULCC growth than RDU. How much growth can the market support is the key question.
 
delta767
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 1:24 pm

Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:28 pm

I don’t see why AA can’t add JFK or BOS especially w the B6 partnership. If B6 won’t come here, at least feed people into their northeast/transatlantic network. LGA isn’t a substitute for JFK.

Once biz travel recovers, it would be incredible to see Air Canada return. Canadians might also find access to the mountains intriguing as an alternative to CLT.
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 227
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:36 pm

I guess it's possible.

B6 is adding places like MCI, MKE and SAT. Those are arguably higher up the pecking order than GSO though.

AA does serve PHL, and of course, that's their primary TATL hub, not JFK.
 
jplatts
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:55 pm

delta767 wrote:
I don’t see why AA can’t add JFK or BOS especially w the B6 partnership. If B6 won’t come here, at least feed people into their northeast/transatlantic network. LGA isn’t a substitute for JFK.


BangersAndMash wrote:
I guess it's possible.

B6 is adding places like MCI, MKE and SAT. Those are arguably higher up the pecking order than GSO though.


I agree that AA adding GSO-BOS nonstop service might be a possibility with AA serving (or will be serving) BOS nonstop from some destinations not served by B6 such as AVL, CVG, CMH, MDT, HHH, STL, TVC, and ILM along with GSO being one of the top remaining destinations without any nonstop service to BOS.

There are a few top destinations not currently served nonstop from BOS such as BHM, DSM, SDF, OKC, and OMA that had higher PDEW's to Greater Boston than GSO did, and a post of PDEW's to BOS from some top domestic destinations without nonstop service to BOS can be found at viewtopic.php?t=1456057&start=100#p22758385.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6422
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Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:08 pm

I wish we could get IAH-GSO back.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
delta767
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 1:24 pm

Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:59 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
I wish we could get IAH-GSO back.

This one shocks me given how well DFW does for AA and how much southwest/west traffic UA must lose to AA.

If TYS and GSP can make DEN work on UA, I’m always surprised that PTI cannot.
 
gsoflyer
Posts: 913
Joined: Sat May 12, 2001 12:31 pm

Re: Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:29 pm

Honestly, United is not very popular in GSO. United/Star Alliance was very popular with the companies here to ferry between EU and USA. I know I was one of them. Those companies have now just started flying people into RDU and CLT to save time and money, it's only a small drive. Without divulging who I work for now or previous, People were ferrying between Greensboro and Houston via HOU-RDU; or FL and Greensboro via RDU.

Greensboro is being looked at as a secondary airport to RDU and CLT rather than a primary like AVL or ILM. Why add service when it is poaching from already established service in RDU and CLT and people here (biz travellers) are using the other two primarily.

If DL cut MSP, UA cut IAH when demand was high. And F9 cut DEN when loads were pretty ok. I don't know what else you can do. I think there's two problems here:
1) People don't even try to fly out of GSO now
2) People don't trust airlines they don't know about like Allegiant and Spirit when they remember so freshly being stranded by Skybus, Eastwind, that failed.

Spirit is the hope. Fly them, get more service. That's the way it has to work. This Delta variant scare is going to potentially screw this up. GSO-IAH, GSO-LAS; if we could land those in addition to FLL and ORL then we could get most of Spirit's network covered.

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