Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
kfinger wrote:Will BFL-SAN return? It was popular during the brief time it was available in 2007.
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:kfinger wrote:Will BFL-SAN return? It was popular during the brief time it was available in 2007.
From your mouth to ANY airline's ear (but especially Horizon)! I flew that five times in less than a year, and instead of a torturous 4+ hour drive through the Los Angeles metro area, it was 42 minutes wheels up to wheels down.
Unfortunately, Bakersfield isn't the least bit interested in encouraging businesses to its area that bring premium fares along with them, so it takes a subsidy by an already-established airline at BFL just to expand to another hub city. I know Covid skews the statistics completely, but remember that while Fresno (FAT), San Luis Obispo (SBP), and Santa Barbara (SBA) are always increasing their flight schedules, BFL languishes with a (sometimes) once daily to SFO and twice daily to DEN on UA, three dailies to PHX on AA, and a subsidized DFW flight. At its peak, FAT had more seats available commercially in the first half hour of morning operations than BFL did all day.
I always refer to BFL as "the asteroid belt", and LAX as "Jupiter", as the proximity of LAX to Bakersfield is the fatal blow. The economic gravity coupled with a mere +/- 2 hour drive (depending on the whims of the traffic Gods) means BFL will never come into its own. I even did a college presentation in the late 1980's on how to economically revive the area, including expanding Interstate 40 from Barstow to Paso Robles, along the path of Highway 58, turning Highway 99 into Interstate 7, and utilizing much of the area as a warehouse-shipping-distribution hub, as the relatively uncrowded freeways could handle the traffic without impacting city life or traffic too much. I was laughed at. I was called a Communist. I was even told, "we don't a f***-ing freeway on the west side of town - and it's NEVER going to happen!"
Today, south of the junction of Highway 99 and Interstate 5, there are quite a few warehouse-shipping-distribution hubs. Today Bakersfield is undergoing 50+ years of neglected infrastructure and traffic upgrades. Today, painfully, Highway 58 is being extended all the way to Interstate 5. All the things I predicted were eventually going to have to happen? They're finally happening.
And the airport? Well, they've got the runway, they've got the facilities, and they've got the room - but not a lot of passengers. And not a lot of demand for anything new, and premium traffic is, quite literally almost non-existent. So, the chances of SAN-BFL returning? Anything is possible, of course, but until there's premium demand, not in my lifetime.
ibthebigd wrote:The 99 should become part of the Interstate system
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AC4500 wrote:Well, the previously planned 3/11 PDX-SAN resumption on WN was just axed. :-/
AC4500 wrote:Per Alaska's most recent schedule update, they are getting rid of SAN-FLL for the summer season, which is quite odd IMO, especially since they plan on increasing the frequency from 4x weekly to 1x daily during spring break. The route will be suspended from 4/4 to 10/6. I guess JetBlue must really have the upper hand on this particular route.
SANFan wrote:AC4500 wrote:Per Alaska's most recent schedule update, they are getting rid of SAN-FLL for the summer season, which is quite odd IMO, especially since they plan on increasing the frequency from 4x weekly to 1x daily during spring break. The route will be suspended from 4/4 to 10/6. I guess JetBlue must really have the upper hand on this particular route.
Yes AC4', I'm surprised as well. Especially to see AS increase the route to Daily then completely drop it for several months... Another thing that is curious is that as of now, PDX-FLL is continuing all summer! And of course we have to remember that this could all still change. I doubt that Blue is outperforming AS on the route to any sizable degree from things I've heard and seen. At least FLL is currently scheduled to return in the Fall. (And btw, you may not have noticed that CUN is also due to return on November 19!)
Here are a couple of other new findings on the advanced AS skeds that may interest some folks out there. These are new flights not in the schedules a week ago!
> JAC will still stop on Apr 11 -- I think due to runway construction -- but is now due to return on May 22, and run thru the summer! The summer sked shows flights at 3x weekly. Jackson Hole does not appear to be just a winter ski destination from SAN after all! And this is not surprising to me.
> Both HNL & OGG service is showing as increasing to Double-Daily effective May 20! That will give AS 6 daily departures to Hawaii this summer! Wow! If this holds up, I can't help but think that AS is working at increasing connection options thru SAN; this change will provide red-eyes from both HNL & OGG to SAN, and offering connections from Hawaii to such morning-departure destinations as AUS, BOI, BOS, FAT, JAC, EWR, MCO, SMF...! We'll have to see how many of these cities will see a return schedule thru SAN.
> SBA & SBP are now scheduled to begin on 6/17 and should remain year-round routes.
One thing is apparent. AS appears to be intent on increasing SAN-service this year and I find that very promising and exciting!
bb
SANFan wrote:AC4500 wrote:Per Alaska's most recent schedule update, they are getting rid of SAN-FLL for the summer season, which is quite odd IMO, especially since they plan on increasing the frequency from 4x weekly to 1x daily during spring break. The route will be suspended from 4/4 to 10/6. I guess JetBlue must really have the upper hand on this particular route.
Yes AC4', I'm surprised as well. Especially to see AS increase the route to Daily then completely drop it for several months... Another thing that is curious is that as of now, PDX-FLL is continuing all summer! And of course we have to remember that this could all still change. I doubt that Blue is outperforming AS on the route to any sizable degree from things I've heard and seen. At least FLL is currently scheduled to return in the Fall. (And btw, you may not have noticed that CUN is also due to return on November 19!)
Here are a couple of other new findings on the advanced AS skeds that may interest some folks out there. These are new flights not in the schedules a week ago!
> JAC will still stop on Apr 11 -- I think due to runway construction -- but is now due to return on May 22, and run thru the summer! The summer sked shows flights at 3x weekly. Jackson Hole does not appear to be just a winter ski destination from SAN after all! And this is not surprising to me.
> Both HNL & OGG service is showing as increasing to Double-Daily effective May 20! That will give AS 6 daily departures to Hawaii this summer! Wow! If this holds up, I can't help but think that AS is working at increasing connection options thru SAN; this change will provide red-eyes from both HNL & OGG to SAN, and offering connections from Hawaii to such morning-departure destinations as AUS, BOI, BOS, FAT, JAC, EWR, MCO, SMF...! We'll have to see how many of these cities will see a return schedule thru SAN.
> SBA & SBP are now scheduled to begin on 6/17 and should remain year-round routes.
One thing is apparent. AS appears to be intent on increasing SAN-service this year and I find that very promising and exciting!
bb
lhpdx wrote:SANFan wrote:AC4500 wrote:Per Alaska's most recent schedule update, they are getting rid of SAN-FLL for the summer season, which is quite odd IMO, especially since they plan on increasing the frequency from 4x weekly to 1x daily during spring break. The route will be suspended from 4/4 to 10/6. I guess JetBlue must really have the upper hand on this particular route.
Yes AC4', I'm surprised as well. Especially to see AS increase the route to Daily then completely drop it for several months... Another thing that is curious is that as of now, PDX-FLL is continuing all summer! And of course we have to remember that this could all still change. I doubt that Blue is outperforming AS on the route to any sizable degree from things I've heard and seen. At least FLL is currently scheduled to return in the Fall. (And btw, you may not have noticed that CUN is also due to return on November 19!)
Here are a couple of other new findings on the advanced AS skeds that may interest some folks out there. These are new flights not in the schedules a week ago!
> JAC will still stop on Apr 11 -- I think due to runway construction -- but is now due to return on May 22, and run thru the summer! The summer sked shows flights at 3x weekly. Jackson Hole does not appear to be just a winter ski destination from SAN after all! And this is not surprising to me.
> Both HNL & OGG service is showing as increasing to Double-Daily effective May 20! That will give AS 6 daily departures to Hawaii this summer! Wow! If this holds up, I can't help but think that AS is working at increasing connection options thru SAN; this change will provide red-eyes from both HNL & OGG to SAN, and offering connections from Hawaii to such morning-departure destinations as AUS, BOI, BOS, FAT, JAC, EWR, MCO, SMF...! We'll have to see how many of these cities will see a return schedule thru SAN.
> SBA & SBP are now scheduled to begin on 6/17 and should remain year-round routes.
One thing is apparent. AS appears to be intent on increasing SAN-service this year and I find that very promising and exciting!
bb
With all of this growth, I could easily see AS SAN station surpassing PDX within the next five years..................
lhpdx wrote:With all of this growth, I could easily see AS SAN station surpassing PDX within the next five years..................
phxa340 wrote:If AS would just start a SAN-PHX flight they could probably command the same fares that B6 does to FLL (post Covid).
SANFan wrote:SAN has closed out 2020 Pax Traffic with the Dec report posted today. For anyone interested, here are some of the key numbers. For anyone REALLY interested, you may find the reports at SAN.org, in the News Room, by selecting "Air Traffic Reports" on the left side of the page.
TOTAL PAX served in 2020: 9,238,882; for comparison, 2019 saw 25.2M pax use SDIA ending last year down 71% y-o-y!
TL PAX served in Dec 2020: 608,847 while Dec 2019 saw 2,131,289; of note, Nov 2020 saw 682,517, more than Dec!
INTL PAX served in Dec, 2020: 9,623; in comparison, Dec 2019 served 87,284 Intl pax, for a decrease of 89% y-o-y;
TL INTL PAX served in 2020: 247,349; 2019 saw a total of 1.053,772 Intl pax use our airport;
Estimated LF for Dec 2020 was 49%; average load factor for the year was 57%, for 2019, 83%;
Ops thru FIS for Dec 2020 totaled 63 compared to 191 in Dec 2019, a 67% reduction. Those 63 were all/only AS's Mexico flights btw!
And here are the Market Share numbers for Dec 2020 for most of the cx at SAN last year:
WN 29.2%: has been sliding steadily downward since last April when they peaked at an incredible 61%! [% in Feb '20: 40.9.]
AS 20.4%: has been climbing steadily upward since July, almost doubling their % in that time! [% in Feb '20 was 13.4]
DL 15.0%: increased market share since May/June when they were at ~9%; peaked in Sept with 16%. [% in Feb '20: 11.3]
UA 13.4%: increasing since a low of ~6% in Jun/Jul reaching this peak in Dec. [% in Feb '20 was 12.2]
AA 12.5%: were at their low of ~11% in May/Jun and have yo-yo'd a bit with small gains/losses. [% in Feb '20: 11.7]
F9 3.3%; not a major player of course; peaked in Oct for some reason at 4%. [% in Feb '20 was 2.2]
B6 2.2%; has varied between 1 and 2% all year with a high of 2.7% in July. [% in Feb '20: 1.9]
NK 2.0%; another roller coaster ride last year with a low of .7% in June, to a high a month later of 4.9! [% in Feb '20: 1.9]
I guess we'll see decreases in the INTL pax counts for at least the beginning of 2021, maybe even in TL pax. Ugggh!
The market shares are interesting to watch. To see WN spinning down since they declared SAN no longer a growth point in their network while AS has pretty much taken their SAN ops in the other direction! To see both those cx in the 20s in market share now is amazing, while all the remaining cx are basically holding steady all year. At some point, WN may step on the gas but will they ever return to the 35-40% region again?
For many reasons I'm very happy to see 2020 come to a close but I'm a bit concerned about how 2021 is going to go - prolly not as nicely as I had hoped...
bb
SanBdlFly wrote:As some of you may have seen, SAN was included in the crazy 30+ Allegiant Air Route announcement! Service to Bozeman (BZN) begins 6/3/21, Des Moines (DSM) 6/1/21, Kalispell (FCA) 5/28/21, Pasco/Tri Cities WA (PSC) 5/28/21, and Phoenix/Mesa (AZA) 5/27/21! So glad we’re getting more Allegiant routes-I’ve always suspected Phoenix would be added. Checking the update route map it appears that all of our routes are still on there including TUL and FSD so hopefully they’re here to stay. First the American announcement and now Allegiant! Wow! A lot of new routes
SANFan wrote:SanBdlFly wrote:As some of you may have seen, SAN was included in the crazy 30+ Allegiant Air Route announcement! Service to Bozeman (BZN) begins 6/3/21, Des Moines (DSM) 6/1/21, Kalispell (FCA) 5/28/21, Pasco/Tri Cities WA (PSC) 5/28/21, and Phoenix/Mesa (AZA) 5/27/21! So glad we’re getting more Allegiant routes-I’ve always suspected Phoenix would be added. Checking the update route map it appears that all of our routes are still on there including TUL and FSD so hopefully they’re here to stay. First the American announcement and now Allegiant! Wow! A lot of new routes
Thanks for reporting the great news SANBDL'. I'm sorry, what AA announcement? I'm not aware of anything AA has done lately at SAN. Please explain.
Ishrion wrote:SANFan wrote:SanBdlFly wrote:As some of you may have seen, SAN was included in the crazy 30+ Allegiant Air Route announcement! Service to Bozeman (BZN) begins 6/3/21, Des Moines (DSM) 6/1/21, Kalispell (FCA) 5/28/21, Pasco/Tri Cities WA (PSC) 5/28/21, and Phoenix/Mesa (AZA) 5/27/21! So glad we’re getting more Allegiant routes-I’ve always suspected Phoenix would be added. Checking the update route map it appears that all of our routes are still on there including TUL and FSD so hopefully they’re here to stay. First the American announcement and now Allegiant! Wow! A lot of new routes
Thanks for reporting the great news SANBDL'. I'm sorry, what AA announcement? I'm not aware of anything AA has done lately at SAN. Please explain.
I think he's talking about the MIA-TLV and other new AA routes from yesterday. Not related to SAN.
SANFan wrote:Ishrion wrote:SANFan wrote:Thanks for reporting the great news SANBDL'. I'm sorry, what AA announcement? I'm not aware of anything AA has done lately at SAN. Please explain.
I think he's talking about the MIA-TLV and other new AA routes from yesterday. Not related to SAN.
Thanks Ishrion; that's kind of what I suspected. (I think I'd fall over in a dead faint the day AA does anything positive for SAN...)
bb
SANFan wrote:SDF and TUL appear on the route map as "Seasonal" from SAN and I have no idea what that season might be since it's obviously not peak summer time...
kwp302 wrote:SANFan wrote:SDF and TUL appear on the route map as "Seasonal" from SAN and I have no idea what that season might be since it's obviously not peak summer time...
Do you mean FSD and TUL?
san747 wrote:According to the SAN official Instagram account, Allegiant is adding SAN-FCA/BZN/PSC/DSM/IWA this summer. IWA/AZA starts on 5/27, FCA and PSC start 5/28, BZN on 6/3, and DSM on 7/1. Cool news, I believe all of these (excepting the Phoenix Mesa Gateway flight) represent new, never-before-served destinations for SAN!
ericm2031 wrote:san747 wrote:According to the SAN official Instagram account, Allegiant is adding SAN-FCA/BZN/PSC/DSM/IWA this summer. IWA/AZA starts on 5/27, FCA and PSC start 5/28, BZN on 6/3, and DSM on 7/1. Cool news, I believe all of these (excepting the Phoenix Mesa Gateway flight) represent new, never-before-served destinations for SAN!
These were announced last week, scroll up for the post.
san747 wrote:ericm2031 wrote:san747 wrote:According to the SAN official Instagram account, Allegiant is adding SAN-FCA/BZN/PSC/DSM/IWA this summer. IWA/AZA starts on 5/27, FCA and PSC start 5/28, BZN on 6/3, and DSM on 7/1. Cool news, I believe all of these (excepting the Phoenix Mesa Gateway flight) represent new, never-before-served destinations for SAN!
These were announced last week, scroll up for the post.
Oops! Shows how out of the loop I am. Good news no matter what!
Wneast wrote:Will southwest continue to add the rest of Hawaii flights they were planning in San Diego this year ? I know some flights were delayed because they didn’t have the planes, they said they would finish there hawaii expansion from San Diego whatever that means ?
SANFan wrote:Wneast wrote:Will southwest continue to add the rest of Hawaii flights they were planning in San Diego this year ? I know some flights were delayed because they didn’t have the planes, they said they would finish there hawaii expansion from San Diego whatever that means ?
Good points Wn'. I was at least expecting to see Maui by this summer but unless I missed it, not even that has happened.
I keep reading on other threads about all kinds of expected HI expansion by the carrier from a whole host of new gateways in the west now that the MAX is in the fleet, but how about finishing up what you started here WN? I know WN is down on SAN these days but they can't be satisfied with a single HNL flight for their westward expansion from SDIA.
Since AS is still showing double-daily service starting on May 20 to both HNL and OGG, maybe they're anticipating WN to eventually start a OGG flight. I do love to see AS protecting their turf at their focus city as they continue to gain on WN in several categories here!
bb
vedatil4 wrote:I found a recent article where the director of Tijuana airport mentions working on connectivity with San Diego airport. Are the CBX vans even allowed to bring people to SAN? I've seen them at Santa Fe Depot but not at the airport. The passenger transfers should be made easier to stimulate business for both airports.
vedatil4 wrote:Is there any movement on the Grand Central Station where SpaWar is now idea? It seems like the project has died on the vine.
hawaiian717 wrote:vedatil4 wrote:Is there any movement on the Grand Central Station where SpaWar is now idea? It seems like the project has died on the vine.
https://navwar-revitalization.com/
The Navy is working on the draft Environmental Impact Statement which is expected to be published early this year. Once it’s out expect to see more activity surrounding it.
vedatil4 wrote:Here's an obvious elephant-in-the-room idea the report should consider: build a new airport at Miramar. I know, I know; never gonna happen.
vedatil4 wrote:
But I'm also curious to see how a tunnel can be built under an active runway close to sea level.
hawaiian717 wrote:vedatil4 wrote:Here's an obvious elephant-in-the-room idea the report should consider: build a new airport at Miramar. I know, I know; never gonna happen.
Miramar is irrelevant to the EIR, since the EIR isn’t about airport development options, but about redevelopment of the NAVWAR Old Town Complex site, which was at one time the Convair factory.
Miramar also won’t happen, Marines aren’t invested in sharing or leaving and La Jolla/University City will never stop complaining about it (though the Marine Corps fighters are much louder than any civilian airliner and the noise can be constant when they do training operations with multiple touch and goes/missed approaches/go arounds).
maverick4002 wrote:Can I fly into San Diego and walk across the border into Tijuana? Like as a visitor or do I need another reason to cross?
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:maverick4002 wrote:Can I fly into San Diego and walk across the border into Tijuana? Like as a visitor or do I need another reason to cross?
In normal times, absolutely. Take the 992 bus to the train station, then take the blue line trolley to Say Ysidro, and walk across! The east crossing is closer to the trolley; however, the west crossing is closer to downtown Tijuana.
The only crossing you need to a "reason" is CBX, and that would be a boarding pass for a flight from TIJ.
maverick4002 wrote:PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:maverick4002 wrote:Can I fly into San Diego and walk across the border into Tijuana? Like as a visitor or do I need another reason to cross?
In normal times, absolutely. Take the 992 bus to the train station, then take the blue line trolley to Say Ysidro, and walk across! The east crossing is closer to the trolley; however, the west crossing is closer to downtown Tijuana.
The only crossing you need to a "reason" is CBX, and that would be a boarding pass for a flight from TIJ.
Lol thanks but I mean like now. In Covid times. If I book a flight for next week, can I cross over?