Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2021

runway23 · Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:35 am

wr911 wrote:
AGREE, this government decision just reinforces my belief that as much as we look to rely on governments for governance and standards, they literally can screw up almost everything. My hope was the approach done by Alberta in regards to Covid testing on arriving passengers would become the norm, but alas why not reinvent the wheel, one of governments favourite approach to problem solving.

Remember that Ontario and Quebec have been screaming for a long time asking Ottawa to limit all travel and put harder measures in place. Probably just both governments trying to blame Ottawa and the Liberals but it is what it is. Even more surprising when you think about Legault's background. Perhaps he's just sour that TS will soon be gone.

The latest set of measures is probably to pretend they are doing something against the British strain. Not sure why they are insisting on PCRs for people returning from CUN, PUJ, etc. Especially with rapid tests being available at some of the airports. If anything, the PCR nonsense might mean that some people won't strictly follow quarantine because they believe that because they didn't have Covid 72 hours prior to their flight there's no possibility they can catch it afterwards.

777luver · Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:25 am

runway23 wrote:
wr911 wrote:
AGREE, this government decision just reinforces my belief that as much as we look to rely on governments for governance and standards, they literally can screw up almost everything. My hope was the approach done by Alberta in regards to Covid testing on arriving passengers would become the norm, but alas why not reinvent the wheel, one of governments favourite approach to problem solving.

Remember that Ontario and Quebec have been screaming for a long time asking Ottawa to limit all travel and put harder measures in place. Probably just both governments trying to blame Ottawa and the Liberals but it is what it is. Even more surprising when you think about Legault's background. Perhaps he's just sour that TS will soon be gone.

The latest set of measures is probably to pretend they are doing something against the British strain. Not sure why they are insisting on PCRs for people returning from CUN, PUJ, etc. Especially with rapid tests being available at some of the airports. If anything, the PCR nonsense might mean that some people won't strictly follow quarantine because they believe that because they didn't have Covid 72 hours prior to their flight there's no possibility they can catch it afterwards.

Shows the real enlightenment and clarity the govt uses to implement new rules *sarcasm* its a knee jerk reaction and they simply do not want people travelling without actually saying it

aerolimani · Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:18 am

777luver wrote:
runway23 wrote:
wr911 wrote:
AGREE, this government decision just reinforces my belief that as much as we look to rely on governments for governance and standards, they literally can screw up almost everything. My hope was the approach done by Alberta in regards to Covid testing on arriving passengers would become the norm, but alas why not reinvent the wheel, one of governments favourite approach to problem solving.

Remember that Ontario and Quebec have been screaming for a long time asking Ottawa to limit all travel and put harder measures in place. Probably just both governments trying to blame Ottawa and the Liberals but it is what it is. Even more surprising when you think about Legault's background. Perhaps he's just sour that TS will soon be gone.

The latest set of measures is probably to pretend they are doing something against the British strain. Not sure why they are insisting on PCRs for people returning from CUN, PUJ, etc. Especially with rapid tests being available at some of the airports. If anything, the PCR nonsense might mean that some people won't strictly follow quarantine because they believe that because they didn't have Covid 72 hours prior to their flight there's no possibility they can catch it afterwards.

Shows the real enlightenment and clarity the govt uses to implement new rules *sarcasm* its a knee jerk reaction and they simply do not want people travelling without actually saying it

By the charter of rights and freedoms, the gov't cannot prevent Canadians from coming and going. However, they can make it more difficult. Lawyers can challenge anything that restricts movement, but there is some flexibility permitted, and during a pandemic the judges are more likely to decide for the government, in the interest of the "greater good."

cirrusdragoon · Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:37 pm

TObound wrote:
777luver wrote:
hence calling the CEO a puppet.

Please quote the exact post where I said that.

777luver wrote:

How old are you? 5?

Old enough to know that CEOs have the interests of shareholders at heart, not "the general flying public".

Precisely , they the airlines have only self serving interests. Those marvelling over Air Canada’s inability to do the right thing during this spiralling crisis are forgetting that the flag carrier, which was built with public money, has long had a malfunctioning moral compass. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... ic-or-not/

F9Animal · Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:12 am

Hesitant to ask since most of this appears political in a way..... How are the A220's working for Air Canada? Is the airline happy with the plane so far? I am itching to fly on one soon. Are they going to bring any into SEA?

andrew1996 · Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:21 am

F9Animal wrote:
Hesitant to ask since most of this appears political in a way..... How are the A220's working for Air Canada? Is the airline happy with the plane so far? I am itching to fly on one soon. Are they going to bring any into SEA?

I might be recalling incorrectly but I believe the A220 was (or was going to be) used on the YYZ-SEA route before COVID. I think AC likes the A220 particularly during COVID as it has decent range for a "regional" plane and is efficient - perfect for a time when travel demand is depressed. It also has the widest Y seats in the entire AC fleet so I guess passengers would love it too.

They did cancel orders for it due to COVID-19 but I get a feeling the cancellation may have been particularly driven by politisc to try and get a better government assistance program in light of COVID-19 as AC has not really received any aid from the government since A220s are Made in Canada too.

AC_B777 · Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:24 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
Precisely , they the airlines have only self serving interests. Those marvelling over Air Canada’s inability to do the right thing during this spiralling crisis are forgetting that the flag carrier, which was built with public money, has long had a malfunctioning moral compass. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... ic-or-not/

Are you sure it's only the airlines that have self serving interests?? I haven't worked for any company, large, medium or small, Domestic or local that isn't self serving in most if not all aspects. Every "boss" that I have worked for is generally only in the game for themselves and to line their own pockets. Thinking of all the jobs I have worked over the last 30 years, I am hard pressed to remember any job where management put the customers needs first. Yeah, they did things to please the customer, but the main thing was to get the business to MAKE MONEY! AC is no different. WS is no different. Costco is no different. Walmart is no different. Jimmy's Apple Stand is no different.
You say that AC "has long had a malfunctioning moral compass", I think you are wrong. As an 23 year AC employee, I have seen major improvements in customer satisfaction and relations over the last 8-10 years or so, and I've heard it personally from our passengers. I've talked to customers who 10-15 would go out of their way not to fly AC, but now will only fly with AC. Are we a perfect company? NO! Is there room for improvement? YES! AC isn't the only company like that...show me any company that is perfect. Show me one company that doesn't need improvement. There isn't any! Cirrusdragoon, does the company you work for have perfect customer satisfaction??
What I might find great customer service, you might find abismal. What you think might be expensive airfare, I might find affordable. It's 100% impossible to please 100% of the mass population. I know people who whine and complain about every service they receive, whether it be at a restaurant, an airline, car dealership, whatever, there is no pleasing them. Cirrusdragoon, I'd venture to say that AC or WS could give you unlimited free business class tickets to fly anywhere in the world and you would still find something bad to say or put a negative spin on it. Again, it's impossible to please everyone all the time.
I find it laughable when I hear people (especially on a.net) complain about the cost of airfare! Flying has never been as affordable in the history of commercial aviation. Exactly 10 years ago, I took my family of four to Florida. We only had to buy three tickets as my son was younger than two. The airfare cost us $3200CAD for lowest fare economy class. The following year, we did the same trip, but my son was over two years old, so we had to buy four tickets. That airfare cost $2300CAD lowest fare economy...$900 cheaper than the previous year and for four tickets, instead of three.
One year ago in Jan 2020, I bought two basic economy class tickets for my daughter and I to fly to Florida, the airfare cost me $702CAD. Of that $702, AC got about $220, the rest went in taxes, NAV Canada fees, AIF, and other charges. Tell me again how expensive flying is!!! I routinely see people drop more money on a weekly trip to Costco than they would on a transborder flight. But as usual, especially here in Canada, people want the best of everything, but don't want to pay for it.
BTW, I haven't received any refund either for the tickets I bought last year...that's what happens when you buy non refundable tickets.

ac190 · Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:41 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
TObound wrote:
777luver wrote:
hence calling the CEO a puppet.

Please quote the exact post where I said that.

777luver wrote:

How old are you? 5?

Old enough to know that CEOs have the interests of shareholders at heart, not "the general flying public".

Precisely , they the airlines have only self serving interests. Those marvelling over Air Canada’s inability to do the right thing during this spiralling crisis are forgetting that the flag carrier, which was built with public money, has long had a malfunctioning moral compass. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... ic-or-not/

Well as a Westjet supporter tell me how they are any different than Air Canada? All I see in my company emails is about how Ed Simms and gang want guests to feel safe onboard aircraft to encourage flying. Both are just as bad, but that's survival.

m1m2 · Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:40 pm

In my opinion AC_B777 writes one of the most accurate posts in this entire thread. It's been my observation that the more successful a company becomes, the more some people dislike them.

As for the past, reverse only takes you one way, backwards. People can keep dredging up faults of the past, or move forward and acknowledge that things are better now than then.

As for the price of tickets, it's also my observation that the general public wants to make top dollar for the work/job they do, but they think all airline employees should make minimum wage so their (general public) tickets will be cheaper, I see it in life and I see it here. People who claim to be in our industry yet constantly complain about the cost of flying.

Skywatcher · Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:15 pm

The main problem with airfares in Canada are the taxes/fees, not what the airlines net. Let's put the blame where it rightly belongs.

m1m2 · Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:59 pm

You are right about that, the problem is that many still think Air Canada is a crown corporation and still getting those taxes/fees as well. I would really like Canada to reduce these fees so that the airlines could make a better recovery post covid. Some will say that the airlines will just raise fares if taxes get reduced, but they would come down with the airlines competing against each other in time, that and maybe we'd get more start-ups if they could really offer a lower fare than the players we currently have.

yyztpa2 · Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:50 pm

The fees and taxes by both US and Canadian governemnts to fly across the border are significant, especially considering that these costs do not apply when driving across. I expect low cost US airlines would lobby Washington to keep the US fees since they stimulate traffic to US airports such as Buffalo. Though Canadian charges receive a lot of attention, US charges could include:
US Agriculture Fee
US Immigration User Fee
US Sep 11th Security Fee
US Customs Processing Fee
US Segment Tax
US Transportation Tax

PWA732 · Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:15 pm

There is an awful witch-hunt going on in Canada right now. It certainly hurts Air Canada and it's very precarious position.

Governments from the Federal level down through the Provincial level and on to the Municipal level are berating, publicly humiliating, punishing and actually terminating the employment of those in the public eye who have travelled abroad over the past few months. It's absolutely sickening.

Either close the borders for personal travel, or don't. According to the government, immediate 14 days quarantine upon arrival home was working fine, and those in public service were fully compliant with this requirement before this "witch-hunt" began.

Many Canadians, including those in public service, have property abroad, or simply need to escape the "frozen north" to maintain some semblance of sanity over the winter. These persecuted public servants are following travel rules and restrictions that all Canadian travelers must follow. Apparently the rules are "not good enough" for public servants. I feel so bad for them to be terminated or persecuted for political "public optics". I hope they gather together and sue their respective government employers for wrongful dismissal when they fully intended to follow quarantine guidelines just like every other Canadian. These are very dark days.

Pete.

Aresxerexade · Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:23 pm

m1m2 wrote:
In my opinion AC_B777 writes one of the most accurate posts in this entire thread. It's been my observation that the more successful a company becomes, the more some people dislike them.

As for the past, reverse only takes you one way, backwards. People can keep dredging up faults of the past, or move forward and acknowledge that things are better now than then.

As for the price of tickets, it's also my observation that the general public wants to make top dollar for the work/job they do, but they think all airline employees should make minimum wage so their (general public) tickets will be cheaper, I see it in life and I see it here. People who claim to be in our industry yet constantly complain about the cost of flying.

It is fair to say , yes no organization is immune from controversy but some continue to perpetuate moral indecencies. They do not get my sympathy. Right now in my opinion , I find it , all these airlines, like AC , are truly on the wrong side of history.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/ ... -vacations

In the middle of the pandemic , with scores of the vulnerable dying, these airlines are promoting travel when the governments of the world are imploring to not travel. Air Transat and WestJet have stopped using paid influencers on social media since the beginning of the pandemic mind they both have still been promoting travel on social media.

I cannot think of a bigger waste of money by Air Canada or any other airline for that matter. After a year of lockdown, you will not need to stimulate anybody to travel. The moment restrictions are lifted, you’re going to see a flood of travel like we have not seen before.

-Michelle

777luver · Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:27 pm

PWA732 wrote:
There is an awful witch-hunt going on in Canada right now. It certainly hurts Air Canada and it's very precarious position.

Governments from the Federal level down through the Provincial level and on to the Municipal level are berating, publicly humiliating, punishing and actually terminating the employment of those in the public eye who have travelled abroad over the past few months. It's absolutely sickening.

Either close the borders for personal travel, or don't. According to the government, immediate 14 days quarantine upon arrival home was working fine, and those in public service were fully compliant with this requirement before this "witch-hunt" began.

Many Canadians, including those in public service, have property abroad, or simply need to escape the "frozen north" to maintain some semblance of sanity over the winter. These persecuted public servants are following travel rules and restrictions that all Canadian travelers must follow. Apparently the rules are "not good enough" for public servants. I feel so bad for them to be terminated or persecuted for political "public optics". I hope they gather together and sue their respective government employers for wrongful dismissal when they fully intended to follow quarantine guidelines just like every other Canadian. These are very dark days.

Pete.

I wholeheartedly agree. Its an insane witch hunt by the media to chastise and publicly humiliate people who decided to travel, while following all guidelines and protocols. They maybe shouldn't have travelled if they were telling people to stay home, it doesn't mean they should be fired or punished by their organizations and public opinion. And the media is blaming the airlines for some part in this? Please. Its pathetic for them to do it, but once again public opinion is swayed by some journalist with a biased grudge. Its uncalled for and shouldn't be allowed to happen.

777luver · Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:31 pm

Aresxerexade wrote:
m1m2 wrote:
In my opinion AC_B777 writes one of the most accurate posts in this entire thread. It's been my observation that the more successful a company becomes, the more some people dislike them.

As for the past, reverse only takes you one way, backwards. People can keep dredging up faults of the past, or move forward and acknowledge that things are better now than then.

As for the price of tickets, it's also my observation that the general public wants to make top dollar for the work/job they do, but they think all airline employees should make minimum wage so their (general public) tickets will be cheaper, I see it in life and I see it here. People who claim to be in our industry yet constantly complain about the cost of flying.

It is fair to say , yes no organization is immune from controversy but some continue to perpetuate moral indecencies. They do not get my sympathy. Right now in my opinion , I find it , all these airlines, like AC , are truly on the wrong side of history.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/ ... -vacations

In the middle of the pandemic , with scores of the vulnerable dying, these airlines are promoting travel when the governments of the world are imploring to not travel. Air Transat and WestJet have stopped using paid influencers on social media since the beginning of the pandemic mind they both have still been promoting travel on social media.

I cannot think of a bigger waste of money by Air Canada or any other airline for that matter. After a year of lockdown, you will not need to stimulate anybody to travel. The moment restrictions are lifted, you’re going to see a flood of travel like we have not seen before.

-Michelle

It is bad optics no doubt, and lots will disagree. I see it as them promoting travel in a SAFE and RESPONSIBLE manner. But the media and general public most likely don't hold that same view. Especially the media on a witch-hunt for any sort of negative press they can gather up to confirm their bias.

Aresxerexade · Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:31 am

777luver wrote:
Aresxerexade wrote:
m1m2 wrote:
In my opinion AC_B777 writes one of the most accurate posts in this entire thread. It's been my observation that the more successful a company becomes, the more some people dislike them.

As for the past, reverse only takes you one way, backwards. People can keep dredging up faults of the past, or move forward and acknowledge that things are better now than then.

As for the price of tickets, it's also my observation that the general public wants to make top dollar for the work/job they do, but they think all airline employees should make minimum wage so their (general public) tickets will be cheaper, I see it in life and I see it here. People who claim to be in our industry yet constantly complain about the cost of flying.

It is fair to say , yes no organization is immune from controversy but some continue to perpetuate moral indecencies. They do not get my sympathy. Right now in my opinion , I find it , all these airlines, like AC , are truly on the wrong side of history.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/ ... -vacations

In the middle of the pandemic , with scores of the vulnerable dying, these airlines are promoting travel when the governments of the world are imploring to not travel. Air Transat and WestJet have stopped using paid influencers on social media since the beginning of the pandemic mind they both have still been promoting travel on social media.

I cannot think of a bigger waste of money by Air Canada or any other airline for that matter. After a year of lockdown, you will not need to stimulate anybody to travel. The moment restrictions are lifted, you’re going to see a flood of travel like we have not seen before.

-Michelle

It is bad optics no doubt, and lots will disagree. I see it as them promoting travel in a SAFE and RESPONSIBLE manner. But the media and general public most likely don't hold that same view. Especially the media on a witch-hunt for any sort of negative press they can gather up to confirm their bias.

I feel for the industry workers in the airline industry and understand where they are coming from , as yes that would be the stance they take , they’re protective of their livelihood. The media is doing their job , taking research from the medical community that contributes to our society’s health and well-being and reporting it. We cannot ignore up to date science , nor should we attempt to trivialize the science which is being reported to suit our own bias. Facts do evolve with time with any changes to data.

Looking at the numbers currently in Canada , particularly in central Canada , cases are growing exponentially, and the science supports the varied travel restrictions .

It has been found “... that stopping international travellers from entering a country only made a difference in [certain] situations. One, if there are very few of new cases of COVID-19 happening in that country every day. Or two, if the COVID-19 epidemic there is at the tipping point, i.e. it is just about to tip over into exponential growth.

“Now testing people and only allowing those who are negative to enter would have a similar impact, but possibly slightly smaller because there will be a few people who test negative even when they are positive. So again this restriction will only make a difference in two situations: there are very few cases of COVID-19 happening, or the epidemic is close to its tipping point.

“These restrictions may also make a difference if you are trying to keep a new strain of coronavirus out of your country, and hardly anyone in your country has that strain yet.” - Prof Mark Jit, Professor of Vaccine Epidemiology and Department of Infectious Disease Epidemiology, London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expe ... -covid-19/

777luver · Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:35 am

Aresxerexade wrote:
777luver wrote:
Aresxerexade wrote:

It is fair to say , yes no organization is immune from controversy but some continue to perpetuate moral indecencies. They do not get my sympathy. Right now in my opinion , I find it , all these airlines, like AC , are truly on the wrong side of history.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/ ... -vacations

In the middle of the pandemic , with scores of the vulnerable dying, these airlines are promoting travel when the governments of the world are imploring to not travel. Air Transat and WestJet have stopped using paid influencers on social media since the beginning of the pandemic mind they both have still been promoting travel on social media.

I cannot think of a bigger waste of money by Air Canada or any other airline for that matter. After a year of lockdown, you will not need to stimulate anybody to travel. The moment restrictions are lifted, you’re going to see a flood of travel like we have not seen before.

-Michelle

It is bad optics no doubt, and lots will disagree. I see it as them promoting travel in a SAFE and RESPONSIBLE manner. But the media and general public most likely don't hold that same view. Especially the media on a witch-hunt for any sort of negative press they can gather up to confirm their bias.

I feel for the industry workers in the airline industry and understand where they are coming from , as yes that would be the stance they take , they’re protective of their livelihood. The media is doing their job , taking research from the medical community that contributes to our society’s health and well-being and reporting it. We cannot ignore up to date science , nor should we attempt to trivialize the science which is being reported to suit our own bias. Facts do evolve with time with any changes to data.

Looking at the numbers currently in Canada , particularly in central Canada , cases are growing exponentially, and the science supports the varied travel restrictions .

It has been found “... that stopping international travellers from entering a country only made a difference in [certain] situations. One, if there are very few of new cases of COVID-19 happening in that country every day. Or two, if the COVID-19 epidemic there is at the tipping point, i.e. it is just about to tip over into exponential growth.

“Now testing people and only allowing those who are negative to enter would have a similar impact, but possibly slightly smaller because there will be a few people who test negative even when they are positive. So again this restriction will only make a difference in two situations: there are very few cases of COVID-19 happening, or the epidemic is close to its tipping point.

“These restrictions may also make a difference if you are trying to keep a new strain of coronavirus out of your country, and hardly anyone in your country has that strain yet.” - Prof Mark Jit, Professor of Vaccine Epidemiology and Department of Infectious Disease Epidemiology, London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expe ... -covid-19/

I can't argue with your post as you are 100% correct. Thanks for posting that link, its interesting

aerolimani · Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:02 am

PWA732 wrote:
There is an awful witch-hunt going on in Canada right now. It certainly hurts Air Canada and it's very precarious position.

Governments from the Federal level down through the Provincial level and on to the Municipal level are berating, publicly humiliating, punishing and actually terminating the employment of those in the public eye who have travelled abroad over the past few months. It's absolutely sickening.

Either close the borders for personal travel, or don't. According to the government, immediate 14 days quarantine upon arrival home was working fine, and those in public service were fully compliant with this requirement before this "witch-hunt" began.

Many Canadians, including those in public service, have property abroad, or simply need to escape the "frozen north" to maintain some semblance of sanity over the winter. These persecuted public servants are following travel rules and restrictions that all Canadian travelers must follow. Apparently the rules are "not good enough" for public servants. I feel so bad for them to be terminated or persecuted for political "public optics". I hope they gather together and sue their respective government employers for wrongful dismissal when they fully intended to follow quarantine guidelines just like every other Canadian. These are very dark days.

Pete.

The Canadian government, as bound by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, cannot prevent Canadian citizens and legal residents from crossing the border in either direction. So, if they want to stop it, their option is to make international travel as awkward as possible. Thus, the new rule requiring a negative PCR test within 72 hours of arrival in Canada.

The truly stupid part of this new rule is that the tests will be conducted in another country, where the government has absolutely zero idea of the effectiveness nor the validity of the tests. Travelers will be presenting an email or a piece of paper to the check-in agents in the country they are leaving, and then again to immigration agents when they arrive in Canada. Soon, it's going to be VERY easy for travelers to find counterfeit negative test documents for cheap, and how would anybody know any better? If the government was serious about this, there would be an instant test given at check-in (at the airport), a PCR test taken on arrival in Canada, and another one required a week after arrival.

But again, we know this is not about making travel safe. It's about preventing travel altogether.

777luver · Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:05 am

aerolimani wrote:
PWA732 wrote:
There is an awful witch-hunt going on in Canada right now. It certainly hurts Air Canada and it's very precarious position.

Governments from the Federal level down through the Provincial level and on to the Municipal level are berating, publicly humiliating, punishing and actually terminating the employment of those in the public eye who have travelled abroad over the past few months. It's absolutely sickening.

Either close the borders for personal travel, or don't. According to the government, immediate 14 days quarantine upon arrival home was working fine, and those in public service were fully compliant with this requirement before this "witch-hunt" began.

Many Canadians, including those in public service, have property abroad, or simply need to escape the "frozen north" to maintain some semblance of sanity over the winter. These persecuted public servants are following travel rules and restrictions that all Canadian travelers must follow. Apparently the rules are "not good enough" for public servants. I feel so bad for them to be terminated or persecuted for political "public optics". I hope they gather together and sue their respective government employers for wrongful dismissal when they fully intended to follow quarantine guidelines just like every other Canadian. These are very dark days.

Pete.

The Canadian government, as bound by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, cannot prevent Canadian citizens and legal residents from crossing the border in either direction. So, if they want to stop it, their option is to make international travel as awkward as possible. Thus, the new rule requiring a negative PCR test within 72 hours of arrival in Canada.

The truly stupid part of this new rule is that the tests will be conducted in another country, where the government has absolutely zero idea of the effectiveness nor the validity of the tests. Travelers will be presenting an email or a piece of paper to the check-in agents in the country they are leaving, and then again to immigration agents when they arrive in Canada. Soon, it's going to be VERY easy for travelers to find counterfeit negative test documents for cheap, and how would anybody know any better? If the government was serious about this, there would be an instant test given at check-in (at the airport), a PCR test taken on arrival in Canada, and another one required a week after arrival.

But again, we know this is not about making travel safe. It's about preventing travel altogether.

Whats also stupid is that the govt has said they won't deny anyone boarding flights if they can't get a PCR test but its already happened to at least a dozen+ so there's the creativity for you. Also, this new policy came in way too fast but the govt just said "well the UK ban is being lifted so we cannot delay this" ummmmmmm ok then Mr Astronaut

boacvc10 · Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:18 am

777luver wrote:

Whats also stupid is that the govt has said they won't deny anyone boarding flights if they can't get a PCR test but its already happened to at least a dozen+ so there's the creativity for you. Also, this new policy came in way too fast but the govt just said "well the UK ban is being lifted so we cannot delay this" ummmmmmm ok then Mr Astronaut

Hello thread participants, at YVR on an outbound international flight my daughter was refused travel which was due to misunderstanding of PCR report she presented it seems. I put in a lot of info on a post just now: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456523, and am highlighting this in case others follow practices of AC stations. But what I would like is some action to make it easier for passengers to know what to bring and how to present, so we don't lose money for essential, and necessary long haul travel for no good reason.

On the other hand, any direct interaction with AC / canada based airlines would be an excellent result and benefit of airliners.net forum interaction - why should they not know what to do before implementing policy that refuses travel - for no valid reason.

BOACVC10

777luver · Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:32 am

boacvc10 wrote:
777luver wrote:

Whats also stupid is that the govt has said they won't deny anyone boarding flights if they can't get a PCR test but its already happened to at least a dozen+ so there's the creativity for you. Also, this new policy came in way too fast but the govt just said "well the UK ban is being lifted so we cannot delay this" ummmmmmm ok then Mr Astronaut

Hello thread participants, at YVR on an outbound international flight my daughter was refused travel which was due to misunderstanding of PCR report she presented it seems. I put in a lot of info on a post just now: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456523, and am highlighting this in case others follow practices of AC stations. But what I would like is some action to make it easier for passengers to know what to bring and how to present, so we don't lose money for essential, and necessary long haul travel for no good reason.

On the other hand, any direct interaction with AC / canada based airlines would be an excellent result and benefit of airliners.net forum interaction - why should they not know what to do before implementing policy that refuses travel - for no valid reason.

BOACVC10

Exactly. But instead the govt just gave them a bunch of vague instructions and said "here, now go and do this" with no consultation or nothing. Shows how bright this govt is, "yeah let's implement something, leave it to the airlines, we won't help them but we will give them crap if they don't follow the rules"

cirrusdragoon · Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:26 am

boacvc10 wrote:
777luver wrote:

Whats also stupid is that the govt has said they won't deny anyone boarding flights if they can't get a PCR test but its already happened to at least a dozen+ so there's the creativity for you. Also, this new policy came in way too fast but the govt just said "well the UK ban is being lifted so we cannot delay this" ummmmmmm ok then Mr Astronaut

Hello thread participants, at YVR on an outbound international flight my daughter was refused travel which was due to misunderstanding of PCR report she presented it seems. I put in a lot of info on a post just now: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456523, and am highlighting this in case others follow practices of AC stations. But what I would like is some action to make it easier for passengers to know what to bring and how to present, so we don't lose money for essential, and necessary long haul travel for no good reason.

On the other hand, any direct interaction with AC / canada based airlines would be an excellent result and benefit of airliners.net forum interaction - why should they not know what to do before implementing policy that refuses travel - for no valid reason.

BOACVC10

Passengers must have a medical certificate with a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) PCR test result. The test must have been taken 72 hours before departure from the first embarkation point.

http://accra.emb.mfa.gov.tr/Mission/Sho ... ent/380002

It simply could have been just as you said , they needed to see a document that stated PCR for her to be compliant with Turkish authorities.

boacvc10 · Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:38 am

cirrusdragoon wrote:
Passengers must have a medical certificate with a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) PCR test result. The test must have been taken 72 hours before departure from the first embarkation point.

http://accra.emb.mfa.gov.tr/Mission/Sho ... ent/380002

It simply could have been just as you said , they needed to see a document that stated PCR for her to be compliant with Turkish authorities.

I also found https://tr.usembassy.gov/covid-19-information-2/ but am hoping to locate an official IST website that says this?

Transit passengers are not required to submit a PCR test in Turkey however they are advised to review the flight restrictions applied by the destination country regarding the PCR test requirements, age limits and the duration.

WildcatYXU · Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:30 pm

aerolimani wrote:
The Canadian government, as bound by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, cannot prevent Canadian citizens and legal residents from crossing the border in either direction. So, if they want to stop it, their option is to make international travel as awkward as possible. Thus, the new rule requiring a negative PCR test within 72 hours of arrival in Canada.

The truly stupid part of this new rule is that the tests will be conducted in another country, where the government has absolutely zero idea of the effectiveness nor the validity of the tests. Travelers will be presenting an email or a piece of paper to the check-in agents in the country they are leaving, and then again to immigration agents when they arrive in Canada. Soon, it's going to be VERY easy for travelers to find counterfeit negative test documents for cheap, and how would anybody know any better? If the government was serious about this, there would be an instant test given at check-in (at the airport), a PCR test taken on arrival in Canada, and another one required a week after arrival.

But again, we know this is not about making travel safe. It's about preventing travel altogether.

There are several stupid parts in that rule. Firstly, the report format. Ontario's report format, for example would be not eligible. Also, they don't realize whom are they restricting the most. Definitely not vacationers. All they have to do is to book a test 3 days before departure. I wouldn't be surprised if at least the higher priced resorts would start offering testing on premises. With reports designed to fit the Canadian requirements. Who is affected more are people traveling for professional reasons. This measure is removing flexibility from our travel. It is especially bad in field services. So if a Canadian is doing a service call in the USA, the minimum time on the service call now depends on the testing availability. Inversely, with an American doing some repair in Canada, there is now an delay between calling the service rep in and his arrival.
I'm still contemplating what to do myself. I should be on the customer's site until the end of the next week. The customer is located just south of LEX, so driving home is an option too. It would even take approximately equal time as flying. If the rental company won't have any problems with me taking their car to Canada, I'll drive. One less ticket sold by AC. Lost revenue directly contributable to government regulation.

codyul · Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:34 pm

We've got a new transport Minister as of today. Maybe we'll get some movement on airline support and an answer on the Transat deal.
Buh-bye astronaut

dr1980 · Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:49 pm

I’d be surprised if the minister himself was the roadblock. Ultimately I don’t think the government’s negotiating position (whatever it is) and the staff doing the actual negotiating likely won’t change (unless the new minister is arriving with new marching orders from the PM)

kamloops · Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:01 pm

AC suspends YKA (Kamloops) https://www.radionl.com/2021/01/12/air- ... ef=twitter

and Yellowknife (YZF)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/ai ... -1.5870248

any other updates on suspension of routes

dr1980 · Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:19 pm

YFC also to be suspended

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/air-canada- ... -1.5263788

And I realized I unintentionally put a double negative in my last post where I didn’t mean to.

Dominion301 · Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:13 am

kamloops wrote:
AC suspends YKA (Kamloops) https://www.radionl.com/2021/01/12/air- ... ef=twitter

and Yellowknife (YZF)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/ai ... -1.5870248

any other updates on suspension of routes

For YKA, I wonder if Pacific Coastal will launch YKA-YVR, just like they did with AC’s suspension of YYR?

For YZF, I’m sure 5T are thrilled. Canadian Borth of course has the benefit of being the dominant cargo carrier to/from and within the North.

danipawa · Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:46 am

Airbus A319 -114 546 C-GBIP Air Canada ferried 11jan21 YYZ-MCI prior part-out & scrap (+ 736 C-GAQX) ex D-AVYV
Airbus A320 -211 341 C-FPDN Air Canada ferried 05jan21 YYZ-MCI prior part-out & scrap (+ 330 C-FKOJ 11jan21 YYC-MCI) ex F-WWBR

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4

codyul · Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:27 am

danipawa wrote:
Airbus A319 -114 546 C-GBIP Air Canada ferried 11jan21 YYZ-MCI prior part-out & scrap (+ 736 C-GAQX) ex D-AVYV
Airbus A320 -211 341 C-FPDN Air Canada ferried 05jan21 YYZ-MCI prior part-out & scrap (+ 330 C-FKOJ 11jan21 YYC-MCI) ex F-WWBR

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4

They're going fast now ;(

kamloops · Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:40 am

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... of-demand/

These are the cut routes

By Jan. 23, Air Canada will cease flying to Prince Rupert, Kamloops, Fredericton, Yellowknife, and Gander and Goose Bay in Newfoundland.

ramprat320 · Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:02 am

Not sure the new Transport Minister will help. He’s been at Justin Trudeau’s side the entire 6 years in office. He likely has Trudeaus ear on many a topic and vice versa. Slightly concerning is pre politics he was the president of the Canadian Arab Federation when they lost their Charitable organization status due to ties to Hamas/Hezbollah

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... arab-group

codyul · Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:13 am

ramprat320 wrote:
Not sure the new Transport Minister will help. He’s been at Justin Trudeau’s side the entire 6 years in office. He likely has Trudeaus ear on many a topic and vice versa. Slightly concerning is pre politics he was the president of the Canadian Arab Federation when they lost their Charitable organization status due to ties to Hamas/Hezbollah

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... arab-group

Maybe we'll finally get the yul-bey

Honestly, I was just so tired of the astronaut that (any change) brought a bratty smile to my face this morning. Ha.

777luver · Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:03 am

codyul wrote:
ramprat320 wrote:
Not sure the new Transport Minister will help. He’s been at Justin Trudeau’s side the entire 6 years in office. He likely has Trudeaus ear on many a topic and vice versa. Slightly concerning is pre politics he was the president of the Canadian Arab Federation when they lost their Charitable organization status due to ties to Hamas/Hezbollah

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... arab-group

Maybe we'll finally get the yul-bey
Honestly, I was just so tired of the astronaut that (any change) brought a bratty smile to my face this morning. Ha.

It enrages me to see govt doing a good job to help damage canadas airlines, permanently. Having said that, this article:
https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress. ... look-like/
seems to provide more insight on help coming but honestly why should anyone believe them, its been empty promises for 10 months, and we are in far more trouble than a lot of other countries not just for the next year but long term

codyul · Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:20 am

Collectively they are ramping up the pressure, with route suspensions, cancellations, closures, layoffs. This is politics at it's finest/worst.
I still put my money on C-Rov going out with a bang!

9252fly · Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:00 am

It keeps getting better and better, the USA will require a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) PCR test result for all international arriving passengers effective January 26th.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/travelers ... d-19-test/

PWA732 · Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:14 am

9252fly wrote:
It keeps getting better and better, the USA will require a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) PCR test result for all international arriving passengers effective January 26th.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/travelers ... d-19-test/

At the very least the US government is giving two weeks notice. The Canadian government gave one, which resulted in CHAOS, and many a destroyed vacation.

Pete.

Whiteguy · Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:53 am

PWA732 wrote:
9252fly wrote:
It keeps getting better and better, the USA will require a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) PCR test result for all international arriving passengers effective January 26th.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/travelers ... d-19-test/

At the very least the US government is giving two weeks notice. The Canadian government gave one, which resulted in CHAOS, and many a destroyed vacation.

Pete.

And no quarantine requirements, just a recommendation for a second test and stay home for 7 days....

EdmFlyBoi · Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:54 am

codyul wrote:
danipawa wrote:
Airbus A319 -114 546 C-GBIP Air Canada ferried 11jan21 YYZ-MCI prior part-out & scrap (+ 736 C-GAQX) ex D-AVYV
Airbus A320 -211 341 C-FPDN Air Canada ferried 05jan21 YYZ-MCI prior part-out & scrap (+ 330 C-FKOJ 11jan21 YYC-MCI) ex F-WWBR

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4

They're going fast now ;(

As the Maxes get back to flying and with the A220's on many of the YEG/YYC-YYZ/YUL runs, the A32X's will likely quickly leave the fleet (with the exception of the A321's).

m1m2 · Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:29 pm

I don't know how often their site is updated, but https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... html#/na-1 shows Halifax to Gander being reduced to 4 flights per week and St. John's to Toronto being reduced to one per day. It also shows Halifax to Goose Bay at three flights per week.

Not sure who is right, the news or what I found on the AC site.

Airontario · Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:48 pm

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/air-c ... 24247.html

" Air Canada says it is reducing its first-quarter capacity by 25 per cent, a move that will mean the loss of about 1,700 jobs at the airline.

The Montreal-based carrier says the cuts will also affect more than 200 employees at its Express carriers."

runway23 · Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:57 pm

I hope Canadians hold Trudeau accountable for his poor management of the crisis and lack of support to the airlines. Things will possibly never return to how they were before Covid for Canadian carriers (remains questionable how much international capacity AC will have, if we see PD again, how WS might shape their network, TS' future, etc.).

The jobs that AC and WS got rid of this past week could have unfortunately been saved with testing upon arrival.

Thomaas · Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:15 pm

runway23 wrote:
I hope Canadians hold Trudeau accountable for his poor management of the crisis and lack of support to the airlines. Things will possibly never return to how they were before Covid for Canadian carriers (remains questionable how much international capacity AC will have, if we see PD again, how WS might shape their network, TS' future, etc.).

The jobs that AC and WS got rid of this past week could have unfortunately been saved with testing upon arrival.

I'm not sure I agree with the fact that Canadian airlines will be forever damaged. Their bread and butter is the domestic market, which after all of this will still be as lucrative because of the concentration of players. They'll make the billions lost many times over in for decades to come.
Will it make them less competitive compared to where they were before Covid ? Yes.
Will it make them uncompetitive compared to other airlines around the world ? Definitely not, they still have a large captive market to draw revenues from.

Skywatcher · Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:24 pm

Why can't the NF, NB and other provincial governments subsidize empty flights to their cities?

jmt18325 · Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:36 pm

PWA732 wrote:
9252fly wrote:
It keeps getting better and better, the USA will require a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) PCR test result for all international arriving passengers effective January 26th.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/travelers ... d-19-test/

At the very least the US government is giving two weeks notice. The Canadian government gave one, which resulted in CHAOS, and many a destroyed vacation.

Pete.

People shouldn't have been on vacation. Good for them.

billsalton92 · Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:25 pm

Appears the Trans Canada retro A319 C-FZUH has flown to Kansas as well

cirrusdragoon · Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:47 pm

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/queb ... -1.5262179

Pierre Karl Péladeau is calling on Ottawa to block the sale of Air Transat to Air Canada.

This investor is ludicrous to think that they can over take Air Canada’s proposal. For one he has never run an airline. His only association with the transportation sector remains his recent purchase of a bankrupt Montreal electric taxi venture that had tried and failed to take on Uber.

Earlier, it was reported that Mr Peladeau was offering $6 per share for the company, yet it was debunked by Air Transat . He was only offering the same no better than Air Canada at $5 per share. Mr Peladeau’s offer lacks binding, fully committed financing or evidence of sufficient cash on hand for the purpose of making the acquisition.

In a statement from Air Transat:

“This offer, without demonstrated committed financing, appears designed to attempt to adversely influence the regulatory approval process by suggesting that an alternative exists, should the regulatory authorities choose to reject the arrangement between Transat and Air Canada,” stated Jean-Yves Leblanc, president of the special committee of Transat’s board of directors.

Yes regulatory approval rubber stamping is not 100% certain for this transaction. What is certain is this rival bid from the Quebecor Mr Peladeau, seems to serve as nothing more than a distraction to the relevant approving authorities , and I hope they see right through it.

L10115 · Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:26 pm

jmt18325 wrote:
PWA732 wrote:
9252fly wrote:
It keeps getting better and better, the USA will require a negative Coronavirus (COVID-19) PCR test result for all international arriving passengers effective January 26th.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/travelers ... d-19-test/

At the very least the US government is giving two weeks notice. The Canadian government gave one, which resulted in CHAOS, and many a destroyed vacation.

Pete.
And here lies the problem! Statements such as yours! Less than 1 per cent of people Travelling are Covid 19 positive. You stand a better chance in Punta Cana on the beach then DT Toronto. If Canada won’t allow the Airlines to operate without blanket restrictions such as the requirement for a PCR test 72 hours prior to returning to the country the Time has come to Cut a cheque.The Govt is playing games with the Airlines in the Country with ZERO support.

People shouldn't have been on vacation. Good for them.

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