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gunnerman
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:57 am

India has donated vaccines to Barabdos, Dominica and Grenada, I believe it's Covishield (licensed by AstraZeneca and developed in collaboration with Oxford University). Other countries due to get the vaccine include Guyana, Antigua and St Kitts. This is in addition to vaccines which should arrive under the Covax programme.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:24 pm

The UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has today announced the government's plans to remove the lockdown. International travel, currently banned unless it's for essential reasons, will be allowed from 17 May at the earliest but subject to review. The lockdown has cripppled the aviation and hospitality industries as even BGI sees only twice-weekly arrivals from both BA and VS (both from LHR). In normal recent winters there used to be up to 12 BA flights and 11 VS flights each week.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 406
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:18 am

gunnerman wrote:
The UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has today announced the government's plans to remove the lockdown. International travel, currently banned unless it's for essential reasons, will be allowed from 17 May at the earliest but subject to review. The lockdown has cripppled the aviation and hospitality industries as even BGI sees only twice-weekly arrivals from both BA and VS (both from LHR). In normal recent winters there used to be up to 12 BA flights and 11 VS flights each week.


This is good. I expect demand to pick up significantly
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:24 pm

https://guardian.co.tt/news/venezuelans-stranded-govt-denies-sanctioned-repatriation-aircraft-6.2.1294486.e49515dd12
Venezuelan nationals were stranded at the Piarco International Airport last night after a repatriation flight that was due to arrive in T&T from Venezuela was blocked from coming. The aircraft belonged to Conviasa, a Venezuelan State airline that has been sanctioned by the United States. The 97 Venezuelan nationals were forced to sleep at the airport as a result.


I'll offer that the artcle, correctly arrives to this point:

https://guardian.co.tt/news/venezuelans-stranded-govt-denies-sanctioned-repatriation-aircraft-6.2.1294486.e49515dd12
The ministry said the request from Venezuela came in the “past week.”
However, the Venezuelan nationals claim the ministry knew that it was a Conviasa flight all along.
“The Government always said it was a Conviasa flight. All flights to Venezuela is Conviasa.”
The National Security Ministry said it has reached out to the US Embassy in Port-of-Spain “to seek guidance”.
The ministry said it will work with the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs “with respect to the possibility of a future repatriation exercise by the Venezuelan Government”.


...and then also...

https://guardian.co.tt/news/venezuelans-stranded-govt-denies-sanctioned-repatriation-aircraft-6.2.1294486.e49515dd12This action does not prevent the ability of the Venezuelan people to travel, as they can continue to travel on various other carriers not subject to OFAC sanctions. Rather, this action is intended to curtail the Maduro regime’s misuse of the airline.


Far to much commess for me, as far as I see it. Meanwhile, at POS, we have aircraft that can (and are being used in other parts of the Caribbean). If not for Conviasa, are there no other carriers, or, better - a carrier based at POS, who could similarly perform the same flights? Two trips on an ATR (as they have done in the past), or better, a 737 "borrow" could have saved more than frustration for 97 passengers, but also, an international incident which so highly demonstrates incompetency.
 
LimaFoxTango
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Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:37 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:

Far to much commess for me, as far as I see it. Meanwhile, at POS, we have aircraft that can (and are being used in other parts of the Caribbean). If not for Conviasa, are there no other carriers, or, better - a carrier based at POS, who could similarly perform the same flights? Two trips on an ATR (as they have done in the past), or better, a 737 "borrow" could have saved more than frustration for 97 passengers, but also, an international incident which so highly demonstrates incompetency.


Well, I'm sure BW would gladly do it for a fee.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
aa1818
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:43 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
Far to much commess for me, as far as I see it. Meanwhile, at POS, we have aircraft that can (and are being used in other parts of the Caribbean). If not for Conviasa, are there no other carriers, or, better - a carrier based at POS, who could similarly perform the same flights? Two trips on an ATR (as they have done in the past), or better, a 737 "borrow" could have saved more than frustration for 97 passengers, but also, an international incident which so highly demonstrates incompetency.


What wonderful insight you have offered us. As I am sure you would be aware, these repatriation flights cost money. As you would also be aware, if Conviasa is sanctioned, so too would be many of bank accounts of the Venezuelan Government. The challenges in CAL repatriating its Bolivar-denominated profits are well known and documented. The Government of T&T can ill afford to be altruistic to the plight of these stranded Venezuelan-nationals given its own problems at home. As such, in this scenario, money talks (specifically greenbacks) or Venezuelans don't fly.
Very little commess as far as I can see. Th GORTT did the right thing (this time) in not allowing a sanctioned aircraft to land at Piarco. The Government of Venezuela will now need to make alternative arrangements.

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
Caymanair
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:53 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:43 am

aa1818 wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:
Far to much commess for me, as far as I see it. Meanwhile, at POS, we have aircraft that can (and are being used in other parts of the Caribbean). If not for Conviasa, are there no other carriers, or, better - a carrier based at POS, who could similarly perform the same flights? Two trips on an ATR (as they have done in the past), or better, a 737 "borrow" could have saved more than frustration for 97 passengers, but also, an international incident which so highly demonstrates incompetency.


What wonderful insight you have offered us. As I am sure you would be aware, these repatriation flights cost money. As you would also be aware, if Conviasa is sanctioned, so too would be many of bank accounts of the Venezuelan Government. The challenges in CAL repatriating its Bolivar-denominated profits are well known and documented. The Government of T&T can ill afford to be altruistic to the plight of these stranded Venezuelan-nationals given its own problems at home. As such, in this scenario, money talks (specifically greenbacks) or Venezuelans don't fly.
Very little commess as far as I can see. Th GORTT did the right thing (this time) in not allowing a sanctioned aircraft to land at Piarco. The Government of Venezuela will now need to make alternative arrangements.

AA1818


Surely the stranded guests could have been housed at a hotel, or failing that even at Trinidadian homes, if the government of TnT wasn't willing to risk the relatively tiny cost of one flight to Venezuela.
 
caribny
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:28 pm

Caymanair wrote:
aa1818 wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:
Far to much commess for me, as far as I see it. Meanwhile, at POS, we have aircraft that can (and are being used in other parts of the Caribbean). If not for Conviasa, are there no other carriers, or, better - a carrier based at POS, who could similarly perform the same flights? Two trips on an ATR (as they have done in the past), or better, a 737 "borrow" could have saved more than frustration for 97 passengers, but also, an international incident which so highly demonstrates incompetency.


What wonderful insight you have offered us. As I am sure you would be aware, these repatriation flights cost money. As you would also be aware, if Conviasa is sanctioned, so too would be many of bank accounts of the Venezuelan Government. The challenges in CAL repatriating its Bolivar-denominated profits are well known and documented. The Government of T&T can ill afford to be altruistic to the plight of these stranded Venezuelan-nationals given its own problems at home. As such, in this scenario, money talks (specifically greenbacks) or Venezuelans don't fly.
Very little commess as far as I can see. Th GORTT did the right thing (this time) in not allowing a sanctioned aircraft to land at Piarco. The Government of Venezuela will now need to make alternative arrangements.

AA1818


Surely the stranded guests could have been housed at a hotel, or failing that even at Trinidadian homes, if the government of TnT wasn't willing to risk the relatively tiny cost of one flight to Venezuela.


T&T has a problem of being a small nation with growing economic problems 7 miles away from a large failed state. Relative to its population it already has a large Venezuelan population. T&T can ill afford to extend a warm and welcoming carpet. This would be like thousands of Cubans descending on the Cayman Islands.

Btw thousands of Caribbean people were stranded in the rich advanced nations yet I do not recall any demands that those gov'ts underwrite the expenses of housing these people.
 
LimaFoxTango
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:02 am

Caymanair wrote:
Surely the stranded guests could have been housed at a hotel, or failing that even at Trinidadian homes, if the government of TnT wasn't willing to risk the relatively tiny cost of one flight to Venezuela.


Who would willingly accept strangers into their homes in the middle of a pandemic? Why should the cost of this be borne by Trinidad?
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
Caymanair
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:37 am

They could have been housed, fed, and transported for under $10,000 USD. The mix up which caused this unfortunate incident is not entirely clear, but I tend to think that basic courtesies could have been extended to such a small group, who appear to have been fairly desperate. Also, I think we can agree that big or rich states are not always the standard bearers for human decency.

Those are my thoughts, which don't count for much in TnT anyhow.

I see a Conviasa E-jet did pick them up and take them home. Does anyone know how that was eventually arranged?

PS: Cayman spends millions housing, feeding, repatriating, and otherwise supporting Cuban refugees each year. $4+ mil KYD. Including the occasional special KX flight. We're actually housing a bunch of Venezuelans recently released from prison in hotels at the moment, due to issues with their deportation. Not popular by any stretch, but temporary solution nonetheless.
 
A388
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:00 pm

A sad happening with that Venezuelan repatriation flight. Our government arranges repatriation flights for Venezuelans stuck here too but they use Laser Airlines to perform those flights. If it can be done here, can it be done in Trinidad too as I'm not sure how it works in Trinidad?

A388
 
caribny
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:01 pm

Caymanair wrote:
They could have been housed, fed, and transported for under $10,000 USD. The mix up which caused this unfortunate incident is not entirely clear, but I tend to think that basic courtesies could have been extended to such a small group, who appear to have been fairly desperate. Also, I think we can agree that big or rich states are not always the standard bearers for human decency.

Those are my thoughts, which don't count for much in TnT anyhow.

I see a Conviasa E-jet did pick them up and take them home. Does anyone know how that was eventually arranged?

PS: Cayman spends millions housing, feeding, repatriating, and otherwise supporting Cuban refugees each year. $4+ mil KYD. Including the occasional special KX flight. We're actually housing a bunch of Venezuelans recently released from prison in hotels at the moment, due to issues with their deportation. Not popular by any stretch, but temporary solution nonetheless.



An estimated 60k Venezuelans live in T&T so I think that nation has already been quite generous. Have the Cayman Islands been generous to Cubans. If 5k Cubans descend on Grand Cayman how well would they be received? Hell the Cayman Islands isnt even known to be that hospitable to the Jamaicans who live there! That work permit issue has been much discussed.. And this was in the PRE pandemic era!

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2020/04/24 ... come-home/

And of course the Cayman Islands has Mummy UK to bankroll it when it runs into issues. T&T was initially generous and then hordes of Venezuelans arrived fleeing their failed state.
Last edited by caribny on Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
caribny
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:05 pm

A388 wrote:
A sad happening with that Venezuelan repatriation flight. Our government arranges repatriation flights for Venezuelans stuck here too but they use Laser Airlines to perform those flights. If it can be done here, can it be done in Trinidad too as I'm not sure how it works in Trinidad?

A388



Curacao doesnt have Big Daddy USA breathing down its neck if they get involved in Venezuela USA issues. Not sure if you know this but the Trump regime was very involved in the recent elections in T&T and Guyana. It worked in Guyana, where there was regime change, but failed in T&T and the GORTT is very aware of this.

There are larger issues that we arent aware of. Do not make assumptions about Biden.
 
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turk223
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:39 pm

windian425 wrote:
BW also operated Tristars to CGN. BW900/901 operated via BGI on MON THU SAT.


BW986/987 POS-UVF-BGI-CGN-MUC-CGN-BGI-UVF-POS. Think it was just once a week... I worked with BW at BGI from 1987-1993 and am still a huge nerd with all these useless details stuck in my head!
 
2travel2know2
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Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:17 pm

caribny wrote:
A388 wrote:
A sad happening with that Venezuelan repatriation flight. Our government arranges repatriation flights for Venezuelans stuck here too but they use Laser Airlines to perform those flights. If it can be done here, can it be done in Trinidad too as I'm not sure how it works in Trinidad?

A388



Curacao doesnt have Big Daddy USA breathing down its neck if they get involved in Venezuela USA issues.
(Trying to keep the reply as much aviation-related as possible)
Curaçao has its special relation with The Netherlands and right now things aren't that well between the Venezuelan regime and the European Union. It's quite possible that sooner or later The Netherlands pressed by EU could be "breathing down on Korsao's neck" if a Venezuelan (rather said, Venezuelan government owned) airline is used for repatriation flights.

Having visited Port of Spain December 2019 and witnessed the local reaction to hearing any kind of Spanish accent, I have to make the statement that the only Venezuelans T&T would rather be the most generous to right now are those children, grand-children and great-grandchildren of Trinis who migrated to Venezuela wishing to leave that country, regardless if they no longer speak English. Those people might not even want to settle on the islands but may only be grateful for Trini (refugee) documents to access more opportunities to relocate world-wide.
For non-English speaking Venezuelans, T&T shouldn't be at all, among the choices for immigration, having Venezuelans go to T&T just show the level of desperation of the people choosing to flee that country.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
Caymanair
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:53 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:32 am

turk223 wrote:
windian425 wrote:
BW also operated Tristars to CGN. BW900/901 operated via BGI on MON THU SAT.


BW986/987 POS-UVF-BGI-CGN-MUC-CGN-BGI-UVF-POS. Think it was just once a week... I worked with BW at BGI from 1987-1993 and am still a huge nerd with all these useless details stuck in my head!


I imagine that carried tourists, mostly? I could see that being successful with a package tour operator.
 
caribny
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:06 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
caribny wrote:
A388 wrote:
A sad happening with that Venezuelan repatriation flight. Our government arranges repatriation flights for Venezuelans stuck here too but they use Laser Airlines to perform those flights. If it can be done here, can it be done in Trinidad too as I'm not sure how it works in Trinidad?

A388



Curacao doesnt have Big Daddy USA breathing down its neck if they get involved in Venezuela USA issues.
(Trying to keep the reply as much aviation-related as possible)
Curaçao has its special relation with The Netherlands and right now things aren't that well between the Venezuelan regime and the European Union. It's quite possible that sooner or later The Netherlands pressed by EU could be "breathing down on Korsao's neck" if a Venezuelan (rather said, Venezuelan government owned) airline is used for repatriation flights.

Having visited Port of Spain December 2019 and witnessed the local reaction to hearing any kind of Spanish accent, I have to make the statement that the only Venezuelans T&T would rather be the most generous to right now are those children, grand-children and great-grandchildren of Trinis who migrated to Venezuela wishing to leave that country, regardless if they no longer speak English. Those people might not even want to settle on the islands but may only be grateful for Trini (refugee) documents to access more opportunities to relocate world-wide.
For non-English speaking Venezuelans, T&T shouldn't be at all, among the choices for immigration, having Venezuelans go to T&T just show the level of desperation of the people choosing to flee that country.



T&T is 7 miles from Venezuela. A nation with its own issues of crime it has also being dragged into that of Venezuela's as that country implodes. Venezuelan pirates harass T&T fishermen and have even killed more than a few.

https://www.refugeesinternational.org/r ... and-tobago

And T&T has to battle the UNHCR which is demanding that this island with its own decaying economy, escalating unemployment, and increasing crime, must accommodate those fleeing from a failed state. And yes the costs of accommodating these people will be higher for T&T given the need to build in translation services into their public sector as well as setting up bilingual education and addressing the traumas of refugees. This is why T&T folks are skeptical about more Venezuelans arriving, especially those at the bottom of the social ladder who already suffer from all that ails that nation.

If 40,000 Haitians suddenly arrive in Panama will they lay out the carpet? It took Panamanians a while to accommodate West Indian migrants and there was tremendous prejudices against them (the Chombo stigma, and yes I know several Panamanian West Indians so I have heard the stories). These Jamaicans and Barbadians arrived as self supporting WORKERS and not dependent refugees as the Venezuelans in T&T are. Do not single out T&T when Panama isnt any better.

And back to aviation. I guess some folks think that T&T should risk a downgrade to Cat 2 by the FAA by allowing a carrier banned by the USA to enter its airspace. They have had to undergo this on 2 other occasions and BW suffered as a result.
 
2travel2know2
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Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:09 pm

caribny wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
caribny wrote:


Curacao doesnt have Big Daddy USA breathing down its neck if they get involved in Venezuela USA issues.
(Trying to keep the reply as much aviation-related as possible)
Curaçao has its special relation with The Netherlands and right now things aren't that well between the Venezuelan regime and the European Union. It's quite possible that sooner or later The Netherlands pressed by EU could be "breathing down on Korsao's neck" if a Venezuelan (rather said, Venezuelan government owned) airline is used for repatriation flights.

Having visited Port of Spain December 2019 and witnessed the local reaction to hearing any kind of Spanish accent, I have to make the statement that the only Venezuelans T&T would rather be the most generous to right now are those children, grand-children and great-grandchildren of Trinis who migrated to Venezuela wishing to leave that country, regardless if they no longer speak English. Those people might not even want to settle on the islands but may only be grateful for Trini (refugee) documents to access more opportunities to relocate world-wide.
For non-English speaking Venezuelans, T&T shouldn't be at all, among the choices for immigration, having Venezuelans go to T&T just show the level of desperation of the people choosing to flee that country.



T&T is 7 miles from Venezuela. A nation with its own issues of crime it has also being dragged into that of Venezuela's as that country implodes. Venezuelan pirates harass T&T fishermen and have even killed more than a few.

https://www.refugeesinternational.org/r ... and-tobago

And T&T has to battle the UNHCR which is demanding that this island with its own decaying economy, escalating unemployment, and increasing crime, must accommodate those fleeing from a failed state. And yes the costs of accommodating these people will be higher for T&T given the need to build in translation services into their public sector as well as setting up bilingual education and addressing the traumas of refugees. This is why T&T folks are skeptical about more Venezuelans arriving, especially those at the bottom of the social ladder who already suffer from all that ails that nation.
I'm sadden by the stress and burden being taken by fellow T&T West Indians due to the Venezuelan crisis. T&T had problems of its own and now has to deal with a refugee problem. However, out of my personal experience, many Trinis have become skeptical of anybody on the islands speaking Spanish, no matter where they're from, but that attitude does make a 180-turn when those Spanish speakers are heard speaking The Queen's (or Caribbean) English.

If 40,000 Haitians suddenly arrive in Panama will they lay out the carpet?
Why? Panama's getting thousands of Hatians, Cubans, Asians and Africans overland from Colombia and almost none of them want to stay in Panama. They're looking to get to USA and Canada
It took Panamanians a while to accommodate West Indian migrants and there was tremendous prejudices against them (the Chombo stigma, and yes I know several Panamanian West Indians so I have heard the stories).
That's very much true, and Panama paid dearly for those prejudices toward the English-speaking West Indians and their children/grad-children. A couple of generations of potentially bilingual Panamanians lost forever. Little English spoken in parts of the country which could be fully bilingual.
These Jamaicans and Barbadians arrived as self supporting WORKERS and not dependent refugees as the Venezuelans in T&T are.
Correction: Very few Jamaicans emigrated to Panama for the Panama Canal, the bulk of the immigrants were from Barbados and nearby islands.
Do not single out T&T when Panama isn't any better.
Was there really a need to bring (the West Indian migration to) Panama at all to the subject of the Trini reaction to Venezuelan refugees?

And back to aviation. I guess some folks think that T&T should risk a downgrade to Cat 2 by the FAA by allowing a carrier banned by the USA to enter its airspace. They have had to undergo this on 2 other occasions and BW suffered as a result.
T&T's FAA Cat 1 is an asset the country and BW should maintain. It'll come handy whenever (and however) BW re-starts scheduled operations.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1194
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:11 pm

turk223 wrote:
windian425 wrote:
BW also operated Tristars to CGN. BW900/901 operated via BGI on MON THU SAT.


BW986/987 POS-UVF-BGI-CGN-MUC-CGN-BGI-UVF-POS. Think it was just once a week... I worked with BW at BGI from 1987-1993 and am still a huge nerd with all these useless details stuck in my head!

BW also operated to FRA, ARN and ZRH (weekly charters via BGI for Kuoni I think). In the UK, apart from LHR BW also served MAN, PIK and BFS. The latter two were short-lived in 2005.

POS-BGI-MAN-PIK-BGI-POS (Fridays)
POS-BGI-MAN-BFS-BGI-POS (Saturdays)
 
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turk223
Posts: 426
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:42 pm

gunnerman wrote:
turk223 wrote:
windian425 wrote:
BW also operated Tristars to CGN. BW900/901 operated via BGI on MON THU SAT.


BW986/987 POS-UVF-BGI-CGN-MUC-CGN-BGI-UVF-POS. Think it was just once a week... I worked with BW at BGI from 1987-1993 and am still a huge nerd with all these useless details stuck in my head!

BW also operated to FRA, ARN and ZRH (weekly charters via BGI for Kuoni I think). In the UK, apart from LHR BW also served MAN, PIK and BFS. The latter two were short-lived in 2005.

POS-BGI-MAN-PIK-BGI-POS (Fridays)
POS-BGI-MAN-BFS-BGI-POS (Saturdays)


I left BWIA before the MAN, PIK, and BFS flights. But, FRA, ZRH, and ARN were scheduled flights primarily full of IT ("inclusive tour") passengers. However, you could buy a ticket (expensive) on any of those flights as a "regular" passenger... so not truly a charter, as such.
 
TriniboiUK
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:01 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:04 pm

Talk about useless I remember in early 90's bw Europe schedule
ARN on MON
FRA on TUE,THUR& SUN
ZRH on FRI&SA
LHR on MON WED THUR FRI(2)SATSUN
 
baje427
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:18 am

It seems LI returned 2 ATR's today both flew ANU-NAS-YYZ.
 
danipawa
Posts: 541
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:16 am

ATR 42 -500(600) 1018 V2-LIM LIAT ferried 05mar21 ANU-NAS-YYZ on return to lessor (+ ATR 72-212A(600) 1103 V2-LIB) ex F-WWLC

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=2
 
aa1818
Posts: 1574
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:59 pm

So how many ATRs is LIAT actually operating now?
I noticed on their website that they are flying 5 days a week seemingly from 8am to 7pm generally. I also noticed they have re-established a broad network in Barbados0 though very low frequency.
Based on the website it appears their plans to re-enter Guyana (OGL) did not materialize.
Are workers being paid their salaries on time? Anyone flew LIAT recently?

Cheers,
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
Brickell305
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:36 pm

baje427 wrote:
It seems LI returned 2 ATR's today both flew ANU-NAS-YYZ.


I'm actually surprised that they still had those planes. Thought they would have been returned to lessors long ago.

aa1818 wrote:
So how many ATRs is LIAT actually operating now?
I noticed on their website that they are flying 5 days a week seemingly from 8am to 7pm generally. I also noticed they have re-established a broad network in Barbados0 though very low frequency.
Based on the website it appears their plans to re-enter Guyana (OGL) did not materialize.
Are workers being paid their salaries on time? Anyone flew LIAT recently?

Cheers,
AA1818


They've been operating two ATRs (V2-LID & V2-LIF). I'm not sure whether current staff are being paid on time. I do know that laid off staff have yet to receive any severance or other form of compensation.
 
caribny
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:30 pm

aa1818 wrote:
So how many ATRs is LIAT actually operating now?
I noticed on their website that they are flying 5 days a week seemingly from 8am to 7pm generally. I also noticed they have re-established a broad network in Barbados0 though very low frequency.
Based on the website it appears their plans to re-enter Guyana (OGL) did not materialize.
Are workers being paid their salaries on time? Anyone flew LIAT recently?

Cheers,
AA1818



Limited intra regional travel. Tightening travel restrictions (SVD is now as tight as SKB) and spreading Covid in SLU and BGI. US visa applications now apparently heavily online reducing needs for travel to BGI. Zoom replacing business travel and limited appetite for leisure travel given lack of events. I suspect that LI is aiming to "keep alive" while it seeks its "investors". Laid off staff still havent been paid. Gaston is offering them free admissions to his new UWI campus for those who qualify. I assume that those few currently still at LI must be getting paid, unless they are real loyal souls.
 
caribny
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:11 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:


Why? Panama's getting thousands of Hatians, Cubans, Asians and Africans overland from Colombia and almost none of them want to stay in Panama. They're looking to get to USA and Canada


T&T's FAA Cat 1 is an asset the country and BW should maintain. It'll come handy whenever (and however) BW re-starts scheduled operations.



I think that you answered your own question there. The Venezuelan refugees are staying IN T&T. The assorted Haitians, etc., are in a race to get OUT of Panama, seeing only as a transit point (and that Darien experience being traumatic), When T&T people hear a Latin American visitor speaking some variety of English they get "upgraded" to "tourist or business traveler" and so get better treatment. So its a "refugee vs regular (upper middle class) visitor".

BWIA once had plans of becoming a truly "Caribbean" airline with a broad assortment of routes from the USA to islands like CUR, AUA, SXM and even FDF, in addition to its traditional islands in the English speaking Eastern Caribbean . Thereby becoming more competitive against AA with the travel tour operators who wanted a carrier with a broad range of Caribbean destinations. BW was looking to fill the space left with the collapse of EA and PA, marketing its warm Caribbean ambience that it was renowned for in those days. Ambitious yes, and lack of feed in MIA would have been a challenge, but when T&T lost its Cat 1 this all became moot. Later on routes to ATL and IAH were squashed when T&T lost Cat 1 again.

So protecting Cat 1 is a huge priority for today's BW. Especially as this lock down is forcing them to explore new options. BW will be operating a Th KIN BGI JFK flight with a Sa JFK BGI KIN flight. I bet they are eying a POS GEO IAH scheduled services, given the frequency of charters on that route.
 
baje427
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:15 am

AA restarted Max8 operations to BGI this week and B6 seemingly restarted BOS and EWR to BGI.
 
windian425
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:31 pm

Correct AA restarted MAX8 flights last Thursday to both BGI and ANU. B6 restarted both BOS and EWR to BGI on Saturday; both are Saturday only operations.
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:26 pm

What is the strategy behind the BGI JFK service combined with the pull out of regional ops from BGI? Will BW be looking to return once BGI is out of this second wave which should be the case given the current trend.

Apparently JY is going to be adding a new type to their fleet with the introduction of the AT4 -300 will they be the new carrier of the Eastern Caribbean?

Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
A388
Posts: 8058
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:06 pm

caribny wrote:
BWIA once had plans of becoming a truly "Caribbean" airline with a broad assortment of routes from the USA to islands like CUR, AUA, SXM and even FDF, in addition to its traditional islands in the English speaking Eastern Caribbean . Thereby becoming more competitive against AA with the travel tour operators who wanted a carrier with a broad range of Caribbean destinations. BW was looking to fill the space left with the collapse of EA and PA, marketing its warm Caribbean ambience that it was renowned for in those days. Ambitious yes, and lack of feed in MIA would have been a challenge, but when T&T lost its Cat 1 this all became moot. Later on routes to ATL and IAH were squashed when T&T lost Cat 1 again.


I know BW flew to MIA from CUR and AUA with their MD80's (almost a daily flight if I remember correctly) but I didn't know BW had such big ambitions of becoming the dominant carrier of choice in the Caribbean. Was that ever a realistic thing to do even at the time? I think in today's world such a thing isn't possible anymore (to have one Caribbean based airline connecting all the islands in the Caribbean). There are too many smaller airlines flying today compared to the past when there were fewer but bigger airlines.

A388
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1306
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:57 pm

BWIA 772 wrote:
What is the strategy behind the BGI JFK service combined with the pull out of regional ops from BGI? Will BW be looking to return once BGI is out of this second wave which should be the case given the current trend.

Apparently JY is going to be adding a new type to their fleet with the introduction of the AT4 -300 will they be the new carrier of the Eastern Caribbean?

Regards
BWIA 772

My guess is to look for revenue anywhere they can. BW is pretty desperate at the moment. POS remains closed, KIN/MBJ are as competitive as ever with significantly reduced traffic to boot. GEO is more competitive than ever before with significantly reduced traffic. My guess is they are throwing stuff on the wall and hoping something sticks. BGI is as good as any other market they could try to do that now. As for dropping the regional flights ex BGI, I doubt those would have added any meaningful demand anyway and there’s very little demand otherwise.
 
windian425
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:50 pm

Launched today.. BW/CAL BGI/JFK service.

CARIBBEAN AIRLINES LAUNCHES NON-STOP SERVICE
FROM BARBADOS TO JFK, NEW YORK

Port-of-Spain, Trinidad & Tobago, W.I. March 08, 2021. Subject to regulatory approvals, Caribbean Airlines will launch service between Barbados (BGI) and JFK, New York from April 01, 2021. The airline will celebrate the event with a special BOGO promotion: buy one get one at 50% off (conditions apply).

Garvin Medera CEO, Caribbean Airlines noted: “This is a significant milestone for Caribbean Airlines, and reiterates our commitment to giving our customers options and access to regional and international destinations. This will further improve connectivity and expand our network which is one of our main objectives.”

The non-stop service between BGI and JFK will operate as one-way sectors on Thursday out of Barbados and Saturday out of New York.

CARIBBEAN AIRLINES FLIGHT SCHEDULE
BETWEEN BARBADOS TO NEW YORK


Flight Frequency Origin Destination Depart Arrive
BW154 THURSDAY BGI JFK 12:40 p.m. 5:30 p.m.
BW153 SATURDAY JFK BGI 8:50 a.m. 1:35 p.m.
 
User avatar
AviatorG
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:03 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:37 pm

JetBlue resumes Barbados operations with services from Boston, Newark & Fort Lauderdale.
American also reintroduces the B38M on a few Caribbean routes.
 
windian425
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:45 pm

FLL is coming back? BOS & EWR started last Saturday but no information about FLL resumption.
 
ryby92
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:59 pm

windian425 wrote:
FLL is coming back? BOS & EWR started last Saturday but no information about FLL resumption.


FLL is not coming back.
 
caribny
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:51 pm

A388 wrote:
caribny wrote:
BWIA once had plans of becoming a truly "Caribbean" airline with a broad assortment of routes from the USA to islands like CUR, AUA, SXM and even FDF, in addition to its traditional islands in the English speaking Eastern Caribbean . Thereby becoming more competitive against AA with the travel tour operators who wanted a carrier with a broad range of Caribbean destinations. BW was looking to fill the space left with the collapse of EA and PA, marketing its warm Caribbean ambience that it was renowned for in those days. Ambitious yes, and lack of feed in MIA would have been a challenge, but when T&T lost its Cat 1 this all became moot. Later on routes to ATL and IAH were squashed when T&T lost Cat 1 again.


I know BW flew to MIA from CUR and AUA with their MD80's (almost a daily flight if I remember correctly) but I didn't know BW had such big ambitions of becoming the dominant carrier of choice in the Caribbean. Was that ever a realistic thing to do even at the time? I think in today's world such a thing isn't possible anymore (to have one Caribbean based airline connecting all the islands in the Caribbean). There are too many smaller airlines flying today compared to the past when there were fewer but bigger airlines.

A388


Yes they planned to offer AUA, CUR, SXM SKB, ANU, FDF.UVF.BGI,GND,TAB, POS and GEO. Their problem was that they needed to offer competitive levels of destination product to compete against AA to gain support from the tour operators. Yes in those historic days we still used travel agents who sold packages assembled by the tour operators in the leisure segment.

EA and PA had both collapsed and BW wanted to fill that gap. I do not think that AA served the Dutch islands from MIA at the time. In fact for a short while BWIA did enjoy a monopoly out of MIA to several islands when those carriers collapsed. AA didnt have much of a MIA foot print at the time as they still had the SJU hub.

I wouldnt say their goal was to be dominant, as clearly Jamaica, PR, DR and The Bahamas werent going to be included. It was just to be viewed as being more than a niche carrier flying to a few Eastern Caribbean islands. Air Jamaica was a one island carrier, but a very important destination. Carriers like ALM were niche, so not of interest to the tour operators.

It was ambitious and clearly didnt work. But at the time BWee was a fairly known entity within the leisure travel trade and its Caribbean style inflight ambience did have some fans.. But AA becoming extremely dominant out of MIA was a big factor in why this didnt work.
 
caribny
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:31 am

Brickell305 wrote:
BWIA 772 wrote:
What is the strategy behind the BGI JFK service combined with the pull out of regional ops from BGI? Will BW be looking to return once BGI is out of this second wave which should be the case given the current trend.

Apparently JY is going to be adding a new type to their fleet with the introduction of the AT4 -300 will they be the new carrier of the Eastern Caribbean?

Regards
BWIA 772

My guess is to look for revenue anywhere they can. BW is pretty desperate at the moment. POS remains closed, KIN/MBJ are as competitive as ever with significantly reduced traffic to boot. GEO is more competitive than ever before with significantly reduced traffic. My guess is they are throwing stuff on the wall and hoping something sticks. BGI is as good as any other market they could try to do that now. As for dropping the regional flights ex BGI, I doubt those would have added any meaningful demand anyway and there’s very little demand otherwise.



BW has expanded their BGI OGL flights and will still be doing DOM. Apparently only SVD and GND is dropped.

Not sure about GND given that the US visa travel is all but over and this accounts for the bulk of the traffic on that route. GND aligns more with POS. And with Sandals moving into SVD, meaning more airlift from non regional markets SVD BGI will be less a high performer than it once was. $$$ to entice B6 to do JFK SVD. AC did YYZ SVD, so its only local travel will be available on the SVD BGI.

JY manages only ONE daily flight on the BGI SVD/GND so where will this AT4 go? and looking at JYs TripAdvisor reviews is frightening. Very low ratings and ll for canceled flights and this PRE Covid!

As for BGI JFK, well put it this way they need to keep their planes and crews active on the 738s and have few flying options. They have dropped SoFL and YYZ into KIN and never returned to MBJ. Maybe a toe in the market to see if it can offset losses on the JFK GEO in a post Covid era, though I dont expect this to succeed. Bajans dont know BW unless they travel to POS, KIN and GEO.OGL.
 
baje427
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:07 pm

ryby92 wrote:
windian425 wrote:
FLL is coming back? BOS & EWR started last Saturday but no information about FLL resumption.


FLL is not coming back.

With the A220 joining the fleet I could see B6 trying FLL and MCO in the future.

On JY are they really going for an ATR42 300 series? In this market I'm sure they could atleast get a 500 pretty cheap.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1194
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:10 pm

BW had ambitions that their POS hub would be effective in getting passengers to/from North America and Caribbean, and even South America was suggested. One problem was that BW was badly run and therefore always short of money, even after the government wrote off debts and wiped its balance sheet clean as part of the privatisation in 1995. There were all manner of problems including the failed IPO in 2001 (which raised TT$57m instead of the planned $95m), T&T downgraded to category 2 in July 2001, 9/11, pilot strikes and sickouts which cost US$2.5m in 2001 and two 738s seized in Miami by ILFC for mon-payment of leases.

There used to be routes to Latin American destinations such as CCS, SJO, HAV, SJU and SDQ but they didn't survive.
 
baje427
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:48 pm

Does anyone know why the BW JFK-BGI flight was cancelled yesterday?
 
9YCAL
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:05 pm

baje427 wrote:
Does anyone know why the BW JFK-BGI flight was cancelled yesterday?

The flights are supposed to start from the 1st of April.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1306
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:33 pm

AA has scheduled a 787 on MIA-HAV. They also operate the 787 on MIA-PAP. Is there anywhere else in the (non-US domestic) Caribbean that we could see wide bodies? This would obviously have to occur prior to demand returning to Europe and other long haul destinations. I think SDQ could be a candidate just based on the sheer number of flights daily ex MIA. In the English speaking Caribbean, the only possibility I can think of currently is MBJ.
 
baje427
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:55 pm

9YCAL wrote:
baje427 wrote:
Does anyone know why the BW JFK-BGI flight was cancelled yesterday?

The flights are supposed to start from the 1st of April.

Thanks I saw a flight scheduled in flight radar.
 
windian425
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:20 pm

Originally these CAL JFK-BGI flights were to start in early March; they have been loaded since February but the start was delayed until April.
 
caribny
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:31 pm

windian425 wrote:
Originally these CAL JFK-BGI flights were to start in early March; they have been loaded since February but the start was delayed until April.



Easter being a good time to schedule flights given that this is oriented to the VFR market, and also because the B6 direct flight might be full. Hope it comes off smoothly so that they can step it up for the summer. Even if there is no Crop Over travel seems to be picking up.
 
baje427
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:35 pm

caribny wrote:
windian425 wrote:
Originally these CAL JFK-BGI flights were to start in early March; they have been loaded since February but the start was delayed until April.



Easter being a good time to schedule flights given that this is oriented to the VFR market, and also because the B6 direct flight might be full. Hope it comes off smoothly so that they can step it up for the summer. Even if there is no Crop Over travel seems to be picking up.

Based on the numbers travel is picking up within the US however, given hotel occupancy levels etc I don't think there has been any meaningful improvement in BGI. Luckily the vaccination exercise seemed to have gone well hopefully things can improve safely along the way I don't think the economy can handle another major outbreak again.
 
A388
Posts: 8058
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:28 am

Interesting story on BW's Caribbean plans. Thanks for sharing.

Regards,

A388
 
caribny
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:15 pm

baje427 wrote:
caribny wrote:
windian425 wrote:
Originally these CAL JFK-BGI flights were to start in early March; they have been loaded since February but the start was delayed until April.



Easter being a good time to schedule flights given that this is oriented to the VFR market, and also because the B6 direct flight might be full. Hope it comes off smoothly so that they can step it up for the summer. Even if there is no Crop Over travel seems to be picking up.

Based on the numbers travel is picking up within the US however, given hotel occupancy levels etc I don't think there has been any meaningful improvement in BGI. Luckily the vaccination exercise seemed to have gone well hopefully things can improve safely along the way I don't think the economy can handle another major outbreak again.


The only people who BW will get on this route will be Bajans, so its that market, both north and southbound, which will determine BWs success. As of now BW is completely isolated from the leisure market as they have no product on offer.
 
baje427
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:33 pm

caribny wrote:
baje427 wrote:
caribny wrote:


Easter being a good time to schedule flights given that this is oriented to the VFR market, and also because the B6 direct flight might be full. Hope it comes off smoothly so that they can step it up for the summer. Even if there is no Crop Over travel seems to be picking up.

Based on the numbers travel is picking up within the US however, given hotel occupancy levels etc I don't think there has been any meaningful improvement in BGI. Luckily the vaccination exercise seemed to have gone well hopefully things can improve safely along the way I don't think the economy can handle another major outbreak again.


The only people who BW will get on this route will be Bajans, so its that market, both north and southbound, which will determine BWs success. As of now BW is completely isolated from the leisure market as they have no product on offer.

I'm not sure there are many Bajans who are travelling at the moment.
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