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caribny
Posts: 868
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:27 pm

Caymanair wrote:
I hope BW returns to GCM. Cayman-Jamaica is one of the busiest air corridors in the Caribbean... and needs competition. And if they do it right (I would suggest maybe just extend the milk run so it connects seamlessly to BGI and POS) it should operate successfully for both BW and KX.



No BW back to GCM. Is GCM not still heavily travel restrained? I really wish that JY and BW set up some cooperation at KIN with BW feeding e/C passengers to them for connections to GCM, and other points in the Western Caribbean.

The priority will be the VFR markets to POS and the biggest will be JFK, MIA and YYZ. BGI will be back as well as OGL, which they currently operate. KIN from POS with stops in other islands. I will assume service from POS to GND. SVD, SLU, and maybe CUR/PBM given current PY difficulties (no planes). The big question mark might be YYZ, given ongoing Canadian protocols which will depress travel.

But JFK. Big, pent up southbound demand, even if northbound remains soft. JFK KIN, JFK BGI, and JFK GEO are sturdy so I do not know why JFK POS will be different. See no reason why an ATR will be tied up in BGI when its clear that travel has collapsed. The POS BGI flights do not have to be nonstop so if BW wishes to pick up say BGI SVD travel that can be captured with a flight continuing on to POS. JY with 30 seats struggles to run 2x daily to BGI (daily from GND/SVD, and daily from DOM/SLU). OGL BGI is being served out of OGL. POS OGL might be quite a route depending on what BW does with its services on its GEO North America runs. Sturdy oil traffic now between Guyana and T&T.

If Cuba reopens HAV to BW that will be another route which will be back as the pent up demand from HAV GEO is quite fierce. Cubans must do all of their US consular business in GEO.

Someone stated that JFK will be less than daily. Does that person know the size of the T&T population in the NY area? As a BW pilot stated many T&T folks need to travel home to see their relatives, or to take care of personal matters. THAT will be the bulk of the travel in the interim. If BW plays cute and doesnt offer sufficiant lift on the JFK POS B6 will come back in and under charge them and get market share.

Do people in T&T know that there are about 250k T&T folks living in the USA and that these are the ones who filled the planes on flights from JFK and SoFL. T&T is NOT a leisure market.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:51 pm

caribbean484 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
windian425 wrote:
T&T borders to officially reopen on 17th July. We should soon see what routes are maintained and which ones get cut. Hope we don't see an exit from OGL and the mini base in BGI with the ATR's. KIN will likely get the most of the cuts excluding the milk run from POS. Wonder if the BW153/154 KIN-BGI-JFK-BGI-KIN will also end.

Well, if they are keeping all the ATRs, then the BGI base may very well survive. There is going to be less demand to/from Trinidad to the rest of the region for the foreseeable future. 7 ATRs is more than they've usually had. They likely won't even need the 5 they've usually had based in POS on a regular basis. With 7, they will definitely need places to fly them. Unless they base some at KIN (which I doubt) or decide to try to be a LI replacement all up and down the E. Caribbean (which I also doubt), they may as well keep the BGI base.

If the 737s are what they are cutting back on then it'll be North American routes and Western Caribbean that will see the brunt of the cutbacks. My guess is destinations like NAS, GCM, MCO, FLL, MBJ that get cut. They most likely return to core routes, at lower frequency for now with a gradual return to normal service.


Not sure if you are a betting man :)
NAS is a very established route and currently flown 1w from KIN, it will continue to run 1w until traffic returns
MCO also established, not as long as MIA obviously but will return 1w due to a building West Indian community in Central Florida.
MBJ will remain seasonal until a full schedule is returned, currently operating 2w for the summer.
FLL this is the only route I am not sure about, last year talks were to consolidate and increase at MIA to increase cargo capacity and premium demand offering. I think it will be back eventually because of the VFR community in Broward and Palm beach.
GCM I expect to see it back eventually but not in the first go as it was the newest route to be added.


aa1818 wrote:
With POS reopening and assuming the Government still limits the flights to manage the influx of the virus, I would have recommended POS-BGI double daily, morning and evening, allowing onward connections, and then basing an ATR fleet in BGI to link- OGL, DOM, GND, SVD, SLU, ANU.
Since I don't think Caribbean Airlines nor the GORTT to be creative, I'm going with, non-stop ATR flights (weekly)
POS-CUR x1
POS-BGI x4
POS-SLU x3
POS-GND x3
POS-SVD x1
For the reduced 737 fleet:
POS-JFK x7
POS-MIA x3
POS-YYZ x2
POS-KIN (combination of non-stop and milk run) x4

That's my guess. Schedule should be out soon I understand.

Cheers,
AA1818


I see More or less the same, but some added guess:
POS-BGI I think daily ATR or a mix or 737/ATR 7w
POS-CUR 1w
POS-HAV HAV is still closed so when its opened I expect to see weekly
POS-MCO 1w
POS-ANU 2w
POS-KIN 3w
POS-GEO/OGL 14w

The BGI base will stay and be expended upon eventually.

Well you would know more that I would so no, I will not be betting lol. I do hope that BW does maintain most of their destinations. I just am not sure how viable they are now post pandemic. I’m not sure anyone knows at this point.
 
trini81
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:26 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:02 am

CAL has announced a phased restarting of their flights from POS come July 17th. In addition to the daily POS-GEO which currently operates CAL will restart flights to SVD, GND, BGI, JFK, MIA, YYZ and would launch flights to POS-OGL and POS- DOM. Flights to KIN, MCO and SLU from POS will begin on Aug 13/16

POS/DOM - Thurs DOM/POS - Sat
POS/BGI/POS - Wed, Thur, Sat
POS/SVD/POS - Wed, Sun
POS/GND/POS - Wed, Thur, Sun
POS/OGL/POS - Wed, Fri
POS/JFK/POS - Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun
POS /YYZ - Wed YYZ/POS - Thur
POS/MIA/POS - Sun, Mon, Thurs, Friday

It should be noted that POS/DOM is via BGI.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:49 pm

trini81 wrote:
CAL has announced a phased restarting of their flights from POS come July 17th. In addition to the daily POS-GEO which currently operates CAL will restart flights to SVD, GND, BGI, JFK, MIA, YYZ and would launch flights to POS-OGL and POS- DOM. Flights to KIN, MCO and SLU from POS will begin on Aug 13/16

POS/DOM - Thurs DOM/POS - Sat
POS/BGI/POS - Wed, Thur, Sat
POS/SVD/POS - Wed, Sun
POS/GND/POS - Wed, Thur, Sun
POS/OGL/POS - Wed, Fri
POS/JFK/POS - Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun
POS /YYZ - Wed YYZ/POS - Thur
POS/MIA/POS - Sun, Mon, Thurs, Friday

It should be noted that POS/DOM is via BGI.


Glad to see I was wrong re MCO. Schedule looks like they anticipate VFR to return the quickest then outbound tourism demand from POS later on (SLU, MCO). I wonder how long before ANU/SXM return.
 
caribny
Posts: 868
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:32 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
trini81 wrote:
CAL has announced a phased restarting of their flights from POS come July 17th. In addition to the daily POS-GEO which currently operates CAL will restart flights to SVD, GND, BGI, JFK, MIA, YYZ and would launch flights to POS-OGL and POS- DOM. Flights to KIN, MCO and SLU from POS will begin on Aug 13/16

POS/DOM - Thurs DOM/POS - Sat
POS/BGI/POS - Wed, Thur, Sat
POS/SVD/POS - Wed, Sun
POS/GND/POS - Wed, Thur, Sun
POS/OGL/POS - Wed, Fri
POS/JFK/POS - Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun
POS /YYZ - Wed YYZ/POS - Thur
POS/MIA/POS - Sun, Mon, Thurs, Friday

It should be noted that POS/DOM is via BGI.


Glad to see I was wrong re MCO. Schedule looks like they anticipate VFR to return the quickest then outbound tourism demand from POS later on (SLU, MCO). I wonder how long before ANU/SXM return.


Clearly BW doesnt anticipate outbound travel otherwise why is POS BGI so low? They have more on the OGL BGI.

FLL seems to be the only major route dropped. No PBM, CCS and CUR. HAV is closed by the Cuban gov't. Not only is MCO back but at 2x weekly its the only one which is any where near what the pre pandemic schedule was. Clearly people under estimated this route. Some of the MIA JFK and YYZ flights seem to be via GEO.

I hope that they arent under serving JFK POS while flying the completely unnecessary JFK MBJ.

We will see what LI plans to do. Maybe they might handle the POS ANU/SXM travel. BW does KIN ANU and it had to drop KIN SXM as clearly no demand exists.
 
trini81
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:26 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:38 pm

Trinidad residents are currently banned from entering KIN… probably why the delay in restarting POS/KIN
 
aa1818
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:00 pm

caribny wrote:
Clearly BW doesnt anticipate outbound travel otherwise why is POS BGI so low? They have more on the OGL BGI.

FLL seems to be the only major route dropped. No PBM, CCS and CUR. HAV is closed by the Cuban gov't. Not only is MCO back but at 2x weekly its the only one which is any where near what the pre pandemic schedule was. Clearly people under estimated this route. Some of the MIA JFK and YYZ flights seem to be via GEO.

I hope that they arent under serving JFK POS while flying the completely unnecessary JFK MBJ.

We will see what LI plans to do. Maybe they might handle the POS ANU/SXM travel. BW does KIN ANU and it had to drop KIN SXM as clearly no demand exists.


As mentioned in previous posts BW submitted a schedule and GORTT had to give approval for the number of flights. The schedule is not reflective of actual demand or desired supply, but rather the number of flights that the GORTT is comfortable allowing.
Rest assured POS/JFK will eventually return to normal levels, as will other routes.
PBM is closed.
CCS I believe was discontinued or reduced to one per week pre-COVID
POS-CUR surprises me
This schedule is expected to be reviewed regularly. Right now there are more flights supposed to be coming on in October and November, but we will see if any increases/ routes come back on before then.

The situation is fluid.

AA1818
 
maverick4002
Posts: 542
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:40 am

aa1818 wrote:
caribny wrote:
Clearly BW doesnt anticipate outbound travel otherwise why is POS BGI so low? They have more on the OGL BGI.

FLL seems to be the only major route dropped. No PBM, CCS and CUR. HAV is closed by the Cuban gov't. Not only is MCO back but at 2x weekly its the only one which is any where near what the pre pandemic schedule was. Clearly people under estimated this route. Some of the MIA JFK and YYZ flights seem to be via GEO.

I hope that they arent under serving JFK POS while flying the completely unnecessary JFK MBJ.

We will see what LI plans to do. Maybe they might handle the POS ANU/SXM travel. BW does KIN ANU and it had to drop KIN SXM as clearly no demand exists.


As mentioned in previous posts BW submitted a schedule and GORTT had to give approval for the number of flights. The schedule is not reflective of actual demand or desired supply, but rather the number of flights that the GORTT is comfortable allowing.
Rest assured POS/JFK will eventually return to normal levels, as will other routes.
PBM is closed.
CCS I believe was discontinued or reduced to one per week pre-COVID
POS-CUR surprises me
This schedule is expected to be reviewed regularly. Right now there are more flights supposed to be coming on in October and November, but we will see if any increases/ routes come back on before then.

The situation is fluid.

AA1818


I trust the same was applied to the foreign airlines? I wonder whats the parameters for AA, B6 ETC
 
caribny
Posts: 868
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:32 am

aa1818 wrote:
caribny wrote:
Clearly BW doesnt anticipate outbound travel otherwise why is POS BGI so low? They have more on the OGL BGI.

FLL seems to be the only major route dropped. No PBM, CCS and CUR. HAV is closed by the Cuban gov't. Not only is MCO back but at 2x weekly its the only one which is any where near what the pre pandemic schedule was. Clearly people under estimated this route. Some of the MIA JFK and YYZ flights seem to be via GEO.

I hope that they arent under serving JFK POS while flying the completely unnecessary JFK MBJ.

We will see what LI plans to do. Maybe they might handle the POS ANU/SXM travel. BW does KIN ANU and it had to drop KIN SXM as clearly no demand exists.


As mentioned in previous posts BW submitted a schedule and GORTT had to give approval for the number of flights. The schedule is not reflective of actual demand or desired supply, but rather the number of flights that the GORTT is comfortable allowing.
Rest assured POS/JFK will eventually return to normal levels, as will other routes.
PBM is closed.
CCS I believe was discontinued or reduced to one per week pre-COVID
POS-CUR surprises me
This schedule is expected to be reviewed regularly. Right now there are more flights supposed to be coming on in October and November, but we will see if any increases/ routes come back on before then.

The situation is fluid.

AA1818



Let me ask you a question. Do you think that MCO POS merits 2x weekly and JFK only 4x? So what will happen is that T&T folks will squeeze on the flights via GEO, forcing those fares sky high and driving those passengers into AA and B6, which have already increasingly dominating that market.

Then the T&T gov't will blame BW when that airline fails to recover. Like it or JFK is the MOST important route for BW even if bougie folks in POS fail to understand this. Yes we hear the contempt for "those Brooklyn people" from some of T&T's elites. If that route is under served B6 mightnt wait until Oct to gobble it.

And I still maintain that running in and out of JFK MBJ makes no sense when B6 owns that route and that airline plus DL consistently serve it. BW in the summer then REDUCES service on the JFK KIN. B6 will be laughing their way to the bank. It is their contention that state owned carriers shouldnt exist and they might well get their wish.
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:14 am

maverick4002 wrote:

I trust the same was applied to the foreign airlines? I wonder whats the parameters for AA, B6 ETC


Word on the street is the Govt is only allowing BW to operate. Not sure how true and/or legal that may be, but given how slick the Trini's think they are, I wouldn't doubt it.
 
trini81
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:26 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:06 pm

LimaFoxTango wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:

I trust the same was applied to the foreign airlines? I wonder whats the parameters for AA, B6 ETC


Word on the street is the Govt is only allowing BW to operate. Not sure how true and/or legal that may be, but given how slick the Trini's think they are, I wouldn't doubt it.


This is not true… the Government has said international airlines will be allowed to operate with restrictions…

https://tt.loopnews.com/content/interna ... ing-border
 
bennett123
Posts: 11086
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:14 pm

The situation will become somewhat clearer when they say what those restrictions are.
 
aa1818
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:39 pm

LimaFoxTango wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:

I trust the same was applied to the foreign airlines? I wonder whats the parameters for AA, B6 ETC


Word on the street is the Govt is only allowing BW to operate. Not sure how true and/or legal that may be, but given how slick the Trini's think they are, I wouldn't doubt it.


Wow what a derogatory thing to say!
Stereotypes and generalizations aside, the Government made it clear that they were meeting with international airlines, mere days after they had a meeting with BW and at no point has anyone even suggested that BW would be the only airline allowed to operate. Even through the pandemic with borders formally closed, BW was not the only airline allowed to operate.

AA1818
 
caribbean484
Posts: 1044
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:54 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
trini81 wrote:
CAL has announced a phased restarting of their flights from POS come July 17th. In addition to the daily POS-GEO which currently operates CAL will restart flights to SVD, GND, BGI, JFK, MIA, YYZ and would launch flights to POS-OGL and POS- DOM. Flights to KIN, MCO and SLU from POS will begin on Aug 13/16

POS/DOM - Thurs DOM/POS - Sat
POS/BGI/POS - Wed, Thur, Sat
POS/SVD/POS - Wed, Sun
POS/GND/POS - Wed, Thur, Sun
POS/OGL/POS - Wed, Fri
POS/JFK/POS - Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun
POS /YYZ - Wed YYZ/POS - Thur
POS/MIA/POS - Sun, Mon, Thurs, Friday

It should be noted that POS/DOM is via BGI.


Glad to see I was wrong re MCO. Schedule looks like they anticipate VFR to return the quickest then outbound tourism demand from POS later on (SLU, MCO). I wonder how long before ANU/SXM return.


Yes as i mentioned MCO and surrounding areas in Central Florida have a growing population of West Indians so that route was going to return soon. Disney/Theme Park travel really does well during the holiday season.

As for ANU and SXM, I think these will be added for September/October schedule rounds.

I am surprised they are keeping POS-GEO-MIA-GEO-POS and GEO-YYZ-GEO flights, if the demand warrants maybe they will expand GEO-MIA-GEO to 3w, especially since PY will not be operating the route for the foreseeable future.

aa1818 wrote:
caribny wrote:
Clearly BW doesnt anticipate outbound travel otherwise why is POS BGI so low? They have more on the OGL BGI.

FLL seems to be the only major route dropped. No PBM, CCS and CUR. HAV is closed by the Cuban gov't. Not only is MCO back but at 2x weekly its the only one which is any where near what the pre pandemic schedule was. Clearly people under estimated this route. Some of the MIA JFK and YYZ flights seem to be via GEO.

I hope that they arent under serving JFK POS while flying the completely unnecessary JFK MBJ.

We will see what LI plans to do. Maybe they might handle the POS ANU/SXM travel. BW does KIN ANU and it had to drop KIN SXM as clearly no demand exists.


As mentioned in previous posts BW submitted a schedule and GORTT had to give approval for the number of flights. The schedule is not reflective of actual demand or desired supply, but rather the number of flights that the GORTT is comfortable allowing.
Rest assured POS/JFK will eventually return to normal levels, as will other routes.
PBM is closed.
CCS I believe was discontinued or reduced to one per week pre-COVID
POS-CUR surprises me
This schedule is expected to be reviewed regularly. Right now there are more flights supposed to be coming on in October and November, but we will see if any increases/ routes come back on before then.

The situation is fluid.

AA1818


My view is government should not be in the business of supply/demand in aviation just because of a pandemic, its either the airport is Open or Closed. They can post restrictions on what is needed to enter the country however, clearly what was in place for 16 months was not working as cases kept spiking while the borders were closed.
 
BW600
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:15 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:57 pm

BW seems to have underestimated demand on the POS-YYZ route. The 1x weekly flights seem to be almost sold out northbound for July and August. Fares are now upwards of $800US one way.
 
caribbean484
Posts: 1044
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:09 pm

BW600 wrote:
BW seems to have underestimated demand on the POS-YYZ route. The 1x weekly flights seem to be almost sold out northbound for July and August. Fares are now upwards of $800US one way.


I think they are underestimating demand for all of their routes and the staff cuts were premature/late depending on how you are looking at it. A contact in reservations told me over the weekend that they were surprised at how fast YYZ has been sold out in almost 48hrs after they announced the schedule; MIA and JFK are getting higher than anticipated volumes for requests.
The government needs to get out of the way and allow BW and the other airlines to let the market fix their schedule.
 
aa1818
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:25 pm

caribbean484 wrote:
The government needs to get out of the way and allow BW and the other airlines to let the market fix their schedule.


I agree with the sentiment, but the GORTT has backed itself into a corner. When cases were very low, no flights were allowed. Cases are high, though not as high as the past 3 months, but still concerning, and they are going to allow flights. They have to at least appear to not make it a free for all, even though the proposed lack of quarantine for vaccinated travelers is even more liberal than say Barbados, who has had open borders pretty much throughout.

The restrictions will last for a couple of months and then CAL will be allowed to resume a normal commercial schedule. The controls are basically in place until the parallel health system can handle a shock- right now capacity is still at around 50% in that parallel health system. Two flights with COVID positive passengers, and that goes to critical levels again.

This administration is also all about control- they are the biggest bunch of control freaks ever witnessed.

What we have now (July 17th) is better than what we had before. I'll be on BGI-POS on July 18th- very excited to be headed home to see my family.

Cheers,
AA1818
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:48 pm

trini81 wrote:
LimaFoxTango wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:

I trust the same was applied to the foreign airlines? I wonder whats the parameters for AA, B6 ETC


Word on the street is the Govt is only allowing BW to operate. Not sure how true and/or legal that may be, but given how slick the Trini's think they are, I wouldn't doubt it.


This is not true… the Government has said international airlines will be allowed to operate with restrictions…

https://tt.loopnews.com/content/interna ... ing-border


The "restrictions" put in place may make it uneconomical for some airlines to operate. Smart way to save the market for BW. It's either the borders are open to all, or closed to all. No in between. As someone stated above, having the airport closed for a year plus didn't stop this massive spike in Covid numbers. This is a prime example of the failure in Caricom because each island basically fended for itself with no collaboration between countries, no sharing of best practices as to what protocols work(ed) or doesnt.
 
aa1818
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:51 am

LimaFoxTango wrote:
The "restrictions" put in place may make it uneconomical for some airlines to operate. Smart way to save the market for BW. It's either the borders are open to all, or closed to all. No in between. As someone stated above, having the airport closed for a year plus didn't stop this massive spike in Covid numbers. This is a prime example of the failure in Caricom because each island basically fended for itself with no collaboration between countries, no sharing of best practices as to what protocols work(ed) or doesnt.


I take it you have detailed information regarding what the "restrictions" are?
Do share with us please. I'd like to understand what makes the "restrictions" uneconomical.

Cheers,
AA1818
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:33 am

aa1818 wrote:
LimaFoxTango wrote:
The "restrictions" put in place may make it uneconomical for some airlines to operate. Smart way to save the market for BW. It's either the borders are open to all, or closed to all. No in between. As someone stated above, having the airport closed for a year plus didn't stop this massive spike in Covid numbers. This is a prime example of the failure in Caricom because each island basically fended for itself with no collaboration between countries, no sharing of best practices as to what protocols work(ed) or doesnt.


I take it you have detailed information regarding what the "restrictions" are?
Do share with us please. I'd like to understand what makes the "restrictions" uneconomical.

Cheers,
AA1818

Short of the government telling foreign airlines that they have to leave the middle seat open, that they cannot overnight crew or that they will hold them liable if anyone who tests positive for COVID comes in on a flight, none of which are likely IMO, I don’t see what the govt could possibly do to make POS “uneconomical” for foreign carriers. Even if they limit the number of flights they can make weekly to POS, the airlines will just serve the maximum allowed until that increases. They’ve done that to everywhere else that has had restrictions on number of flights (EZE, HAV come to mind). The biggest thing that the govt could plausibly do to affect travel demand would be to continue/increase the current lockdown in terms of curfew but that will affect both foreign carriers and BW.
 
caribbean484
Posts: 1044
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:14 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
aa1818 wrote:
LimaFoxTango wrote:
The "restrictions" put in place may make it uneconomical for some airlines to operate. Smart way to save the market for BW. It's either the borders are open to all, or closed to all. No in between. As someone stated above, having the airport closed for a year plus didn't stop this massive spike in Covid numbers. This is a prime example of the failure in Caricom because each island basically fended for itself with no collaboration between countries, no sharing of best practices as to what protocols work(ed) or doesnt.


I take it you have detailed information regarding what the "restrictions" are?
Do share with us please. I'd like to understand what makes the "restrictions" uneconomical.

Cheers,
AA1818

Short of the government telling foreign airlines that they have to leave the middle seat open, that they cannot overnight crew or that they will hold them liable if anyone who tests positive for COVID comes in on a flight, none of which are likely IMO, I don’t see what the govt could possibly do to make POS “uneconomical” for foreign carriers. Even if they limit the number of flights they can make weekly to POS, the airlines will just serve the maximum allowed until that increases. They’ve done that to everywhere else that has had restrictions on number of flights (EZE, HAV come to mind). The biggest thing that the govt could plausibly do to affect travel demand would be to continue/increase the current lockdown in terms of curfew but that will affect both foreign carriers and BW.


So the airline is seeing lots of demand for flights.

CAL: Demand begins for flights to Miami, Orlando, New York
She indicated that it was “normal and natural” for there to be an increase in “people’s interest to travel” after not being able to do so for over a year. However, as far as bookings are related, Ligoure said there has been an increase in bookings but noted that the airline was still closely monitoring the situation. 

https://guardian.co.tt/news/cal-demand- ... cfbe7cdcf5

I hope the other CariCom countries follow soon to reduce taxes, its really ridiculous that taxes make up 50-60% of the tickets.

Antigua & Barbuda moving forward with plans to cut airport taxes
The Antigua and Barbuda Government announced last week that Browne, who will take over the chairmanship of the Caribbean Community (CARICOM), was to propose a departure tax cut of 50 per cent to regional leaders when they met on June 25.

https://barbados.loopnews.com/content/a ... rt-taxes-3
 
aa1818
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:51 pm

caribbean484 wrote:
I hope the other CariCom countries follow soon to reduce taxes, its really ridiculous that taxes make up 50-60% of the tickets.

Antigua & Barbuda moving forward with plans to cut airport taxes
The Antigua and Barbuda Government announced last week that Browne, who will take over the chairmanship of the Caribbean Community (CARICOM), was to propose a departure tax cut of 50 per cent to regional leaders when they met on June 25.

https://barbados.loopnews.com/content/a ... rt-taxes-3


Unfortunately, while great in principle, the taxes and fees levied are necessary for territories like Barbados to maintain and continue to operate the Airport. They allow the airport to be (relatively) self sufficient in financing the last round of expansion, and perhaps the current expansion underway. Other territories who either have the flexibility to borrow at the sovereign level or whose airports carry very little remaining debt (POS) should immediately move to reduce taxes and fees in line with what ANU have done.

AA1818
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:42 pm

aa1818 wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:
I hope the other CariCom countries follow soon to reduce taxes, its really ridiculous that taxes make up 50-60% of the tickets.

Antigua & Barbuda moving forward with plans to cut airport taxes
The Antigua and Barbuda Government announced last week that Browne, who will take over the chairmanship of the Caribbean Community (CARICOM), was to propose a departure tax cut of 50 per cent to regional leaders when they met on June 25.

https://barbados.loopnews.com/content/a ... rt-taxes-3


Unfortunately, while great in principle, the taxes and fees levied are necessary for territories like Barbados to maintain and continue to operate the Airport. They allow the airport to be (relatively) self sufficient in financing the last round of expansion, and perhaps the current expansion underway. Other territories who either have the flexibility to borrow at the sovereign level or whose airports carry very little remaining debt (POS) should immediately move to reduce taxes and fees in line with what ANU have done.

AA1818

I agree. I think that’s an aspect that’s always missing from the discussion surrounding travel taxes in the Caribbean. Airports are expensive to run and maintain. We also have a tendency to want the most modern airports with all the most modern amenities. Case in point, SVD has jet bridges for a total of what, four jet flights a week. Those things have to be paid for.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 542
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:44 pm

Dont the airports have a departure tax? I know POS has / did have. Cant the tax be levied that way? A kind of bait and switch, so to speak.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:53 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
Dont the airports have a departure tax? I know POS has / did have. Cant the tax be levied that way? A kind of bait and switch, so to speak.

If you mean a tax apart from what is charged along with purchasing a ticket, then no. Historically, the departure taxes were collected separately at the airport. Now, for all islands, this is charged with the purchase of the ticket ant remitted to the government by the airline.
 
caribny
Posts: 868
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:08 pm

trini81 wrote:
LimaFoxTango wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:

I trust the same was applied to the foreign airlines? I wonder whats the parameters for AA, B6 ETC


Word on the street is the Govt is only allowing BW to operate. Not sure how true and/or legal that may be, but given how slick the Trini's think they are, I wouldn't doubt it.


This is not true… the Government has said international airlines will be allowed to operate with restrictions…

https://tt.loopnews.com/content/interna ... ing-border



AA and B6 would quickly get BW barred from entry into the USA if attempts to bar foreign carriers were made. These carriers already think that state owned foreign airlines shouldnt exist. More likely that AA/B6 have committed to summer travel and cannot quickly gather assets at short notice to open the POS routes. B6 for example has increased its service to ANU and UVF out of the NY area this summer.
Last edited by caribny on Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
windian425
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:14 pm

Surprised this wasn't posted already but VS increasing flights to the Caribbean! Finally some good news...

July 2021

VIRGIN ATLANTIC INCREASES CAPACITY FROM CARIBBEAN ROUTES

 Flight capacity between the Caribbean and The UK is increasing by nearly 300%
 Airline is bringing forward the restart of many Caribbean flights following additions to the Government’s “Green” list
 Virgin Atlantic will bring its flagship Airbus A350 aircraft to Barbados in August, the newest and largest aircraft in the fleet
 Barbados to increase services to the UK 7x weekly from July 25th and 10 x weekly from August 7th
 Grenada to resume flights to the UK from July 16th, twice weekly.

Virgin Atlantic is increasing the number of flights between the Caribbean and The UK by nearly 300% after a surge in demand following the Government’s latest announcement, which saw Barbados and Grenada classified as “Green.”

Numerous Caribbean flights which were previously scheduled to recommence in August will now take off from July. From the 25th July, customers will be able to travel daily from Barbados to the UK and beyond.

The airline is also making its return to Grenada, with twice weekly flights resuming from the 16th July.

The airline will introduce the newest, largest aircraft in its fleet, the flagship Airbus A350, five times weekly on its Barbados service from the beginning of August, offering 335 seats per flight. Upper Class customers can experience its innovative private suite seats, social space, fondly known as The Loft. As the largest social space in the airline’s fleet, it’s designed for customers to gather, chat, enjoy a drink or dine with friends.

Virgin Atlantic’s other Caribbean services will operate on the airline’s state of the art Boeing 787s. Customers can choose to fly in one of five cabins, including the luxurious Upper Class, which offers an exclusive bar area and fully flat beds, or Premium, where customers can enjoy a 38” seat pitch, welcome drinks and fine dining.

Virgin Atlantic is also delighted to return to Manchester Airport from the 7th August, the airline’s home in the north. Flights from Barbados to Manchester will operate three times weekly on a Boeing 787.


Hannah Swift, Caribbean Country Manager at Virgin Atlantic, commented;

“There’s been a long pent up demand for travel and as restrictions are lifted from more Caribbean routes, we are excited to welcome even more passengers back on board and look forward to reconnecting them to friends and family across the UK.”

Earlier this week, Virgin Atlantic announced the return to its home turf in Terminal Three at London Heathrow, and look forward to welcoming customers back with its signature flair, Upper Class Wing for seamless premium check-in and award-winning facilities, our Clubhouse lounge.

Virgin Atlantic offers unlimited free date and flight changes for new bookings as part of a series of enhancements to give further flexibility to customers and support their future travel plans. Alongside the improved changes policy, the rebooking horizon has been extended for all customers all the way until 30 April 2023, giving a broader window of time to reschedule plans if needed.

To ensure the health and safety of customers and crew, Virgin Atlantic is implementing additional measures to offer peace of mind in the airport and when taking to the skies. These include enhanced and thorough cleaning practices at check in, boarding gates and onboard including the use of electrostatic spraying of high-grade disinfectant in all cabins and lavatories before every flight, ensuring no surface is left untouched. Safe distancing will also be adhered to wherever possible, and mask wearing will be required throughout the journey. All customers will be provided with a personal Health Pack for their health and safety, which will contain three medical grade face masks to be worn onboard, surface wipes and hand gel.


Ends

Further information

Virgin Atlantic’s Caribbean operations are as follows;

Barbados - London Heathrow will increase from 2x weekly (now) to 4x weekly from 15 July and daily (7x weekly) from 25 July. It will also switch to an Airbus A350 from a Boeing 787 five times weekly from August.

Grenada - London Heathrow will operate twice weekly from the 16 July.

Barbados - Manchester will return three times weekly from 7th August
 
windian425
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:17 pm

More good news from the UK... British Airways is up-gauging their flights to BGI with the introduction of B777-300ER's daily from LHR starting Monday 26th July.. First time BA will operate the 77W to the Caribbean.
 
caribny
Posts: 868
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:17 pm

caribbean484 wrote:
BW600 wrote:
BW seems to have underestimated demand on the POS-YYZ route. The 1x weekly flights seem to be almost sold out northbound for July and August. Fares are now upwards of $800US one way.


I think they are underestimating demand for all of their routes and the staff cuts were premature/late depending on how you are looking at it. A contact in reservations told me over the weekend that they were surprised at how fast YYZ has been sold out in almost 48hrs after they announced the schedule; MIA and JFK are getting higher than anticipated volumes for requests.
The government needs to get out of the way and allow BW and the other airlines to let the market fix their schedule.


The demand for these flights was so high that BWs website and phones collapsed. I bet these are mainly overseas based TT folks anxious to get home.

Underestimating demand on core routes like YYZ POS and JFK POS while running flights to JFK MBJ and JFK BGI where they probably think that they can get leisure. What a thing, BW and the Govt of TT should listen to their own pilots who claim that more than 80% of the passengers are West Indians, the vast majority of whom live in North America. The TT govt has never really acknowledged these people in ways that other Caribbean gov'ts have.

Reports are that foreign consulting entities are advising BW. Of course we know that non Caribbean people tend to think that only tourists fly to the Caribbean, so probably told them that POS can take the bulk of the cuts. No matter when AA and B6 take over the POS market as they are already in the process of doing with GEO. TT people want to go home and will favor BW, but will take which ever carrier has seats with reasonable fares.
Last edited by caribny on Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
caribny
Posts: 868
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:24 pm

aa1818 wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:
I hope the other CariCom countries follow soon to reduce taxes, its really ridiculous that taxes make up 50-60% of the tickets.

Antigua & Barbuda moving forward with plans to cut airport taxes
The Antigua and Barbuda Government announced last week that Browne, who will take over the chairmanship of the Caribbean Community (CARICOM), was to propose a departure tax cut of 50 per cent to regional leaders when they met on June 25.

https://barbados.loopnews.com/content/a ... rt-taxes-3


Unfortunately, while great in principle, the taxes and fees levied are necessary for territories like Barbados to maintain and continue to operate the Airport. They allow the airport to be (relatively) self sufficient in financing the last round of expansion, and perhaps the current expansion underway. Other territories who either have the flexibility to borrow at the sovereign level or whose airports carry very little remaining debt (POS) should immediately move to reduce taxes and fees in line with what ANU have done.

AA1818



Travel taxes can be waived for intra CARICOM travel. These numbers have dropped so low now that gov'ts really are not going to lose anything. On the SLU BGI LI used to fly 3x daily. Now JY struggles to fill 30 seats 5x weekly and this shared with DOM BGI passengers. LI used to do 3-4x daily on the SVD BGI, and with good loads. Now JY struggles with a daily flight shared with GND. Put it this way intra regional travel isnt going to fund SVDs white elephant.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 542
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:32 pm

caribny wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:
BW600 wrote:
BW seems to have underestimated demand on the POS-YYZ route. The 1x weekly flights seem to be almost sold out northbound for July and August. Fares are now upwards of $800US one way.


I think they are underestimating demand for all of their routes and the staff cuts were premature/late depending on how you are looking at it. A contact in reservations told me over the weekend that they were surprised at how fast YYZ has been sold out in almost 48hrs after they announced the schedule; MIA and JFK are getting higher than anticipated volumes for requests.
The government needs to get out of the way and allow BW and the other airlines to let the market fix their schedule.


The demand for these flights was so high that BWs website and phones collapsed. I bet these are mainly overseas based TT folks anxious to get home.

Underestimating demand on core routes like YYZ POS and JFK POS while running flights to JFK MBJ and JFK BGI where they probably think that they can get leisure. What a thing, BW and the Govt of TT should listen to their own pilots who claim that more than 80% of the passengers are West Indians, the vast majority of whom live in North America. The TT govt has never really acknowledged these people in ways that other Caribbean gov'ts have.

Reports are that foreign consulting entities are advising BW. Of course we know that non Caribbean people tend to think that only tourists fly to the Caribbean, so probably told them that POS can take the bulk of the cuts. No matter when AA and B6 take over the POS market as they are already in the process of doing with GEO. TT people want to go home and will favor BW, but will take which ever carrier has seats with reasonable fares.


Eh, i feel like you are reaching here. JFK BGI / MBJ were running because POS was closed. Where else did you want them to fly?? Yes, CAL has admitted as much that they have under estimated the demand in/out of POS but comparing this early beginnings to an established schedule is disingenuous. I seriously doubt CAL will continue to underserve POS in favor of the JM market for example. Like come on! I know your opinions of CAL isnt the highest but I dont think (or at least dont hope) they are this clueless!
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:01 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
caribny wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:

I think they are underestimating demand for all of their routes and the staff cuts were premature/late depending on how you are looking at it. A contact in reservations told me over the weekend that they were surprised at how fast YYZ has been sold out in almost 48hrs after they announced the schedule; MIA and JFK are getting higher than anticipated volumes for requests.
The government needs to get out of the way and allow BW and the other airlines to let the market fix their schedule.


The demand for these flights was so high that BWs website and phones collapsed. I bet these are mainly overseas based TT folks anxious to get home.

Underestimating demand on core routes like YYZ POS and JFK POS while running flights to JFK MBJ and JFK BGI where they probably think that they can get leisure. What a thing, BW and the Govt of TT should listen to their own pilots who claim that more than 80% of the passengers are West Indians, the vast majority of whom live in North America. The TT govt has never really acknowledged these people in ways that other Caribbean gov'ts have.

Reports are that foreign consulting entities are advising BW. Of course we know that non Caribbean people tend to think that only tourists fly to the Caribbean, so probably told them that POS can take the bulk of the cuts. No matter when AA and B6 take over the POS market as they are already in the process of doing with GEO. TT people want to go home and will favor BW, but will take which ever carrier has seats with reasonable fares.


Eh, i feel like you are reaching here. JFK BGI / MBJ were running because POS was closed. Where else did you want them to fly?? Yes, CAL has admitted as much that they have under estimated the demand in/out of POS but comparing this early beginnings to an established schedule is disingenuous. I seriously doubt CAL will continue to underserve POS in favor of the JM market for example. Like come on! I know your opinions of CAL isnt the highest but I dont think (or at least dont hope) they are this clueless!

And the irony is that BW is often criticized for overly focusing on/prioritizing POS at the expense of other destinations. I think there are a few things happening at once now. There is an initial rush now that the borders are reopening. All the people that have been displaced for that period are rushing to return home (in both directions). The government is restricting flights which limits BW’s ability to serve that initial rush. BW is also in the process of getting crew/ground employees in POS ready to service flights. As such, currently, there’s a shortage of flights.

All of those issues will fix themselves over time. The initial rush will die down. The government will eventually loosen restrictions. BW will eventually have sufficient crew/ground staff to service its flights. I don’t see the current situation lasting much longer. In fact, I think in the medium term the issue is more likely to be too many seats for too little demand before returning to a long term equilibrium.

So to sum up, short term flight shortage, medium term flight glut, long term equilibrium.
 
baje427
Posts: 1027
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:23 am

windian425 wrote:
Surprised this wasn't posted already but VS increasing flights to the Caribbean! Finally some good news...

July 2021

VIRGIN ATLANTIC INCREASES CAPACITY FROM CARIBBEAN ROUTES

 Flight capacity between the Caribbean and The UK is increasing by nearly 300%
 Airline is bringing forward the restart of many Caribbean flights following additions to the Government’s “Green” list
 Virgin Atlantic will bring its flagship Airbus A350 aircraft to Barbados in August, the newest and largest aircraft in the fleet
 Barbados to increase services to the UK 7x weekly from July 25th and 10 x weekly from August 7th
 Grenada to resume flights to the UK from July 16th, twice weekly.

Virgin Atlantic is increasing the number of flights between the Caribbean and The UK by nearly 300% after a surge in demand following the Government’s latest announcement, which saw Barbados and Grenada classified as “Green.”

Numerous Caribbean flights which were previously scheduled to recommence in August will now take off from July. From the 25th July, customers will be able to travel daily from Barbados to the UK and beyond.

The airline is also making its return to Grenada, with twice weekly flights resuming from the 16th July.

The airline will introduce the newest, largest aircraft in its fleet, the flagship Airbus A350, five times weekly on its Barbados service from the beginning of August, offering 335 seats per flight. Upper Class customers can experience its innovative private suite seats, social space, fondly known as The Loft. As the largest social space in the airline’s fleet, it’s designed for customers to gather, chat, enjoy a drink or dine with friends.

Virgin Atlantic’s other Caribbean services will operate on the airline’s state of the art Boeing 787s. Customers can choose to fly in one of five cabins, including the luxurious Upper Class, which offers an exclusive bar area and fully flat beds, or Premium, where customers can enjoy a 38” seat pitch, welcome drinks and fine dining.

Virgin Atlantic is also delighted to return to Manchester Airport from the 7th August, the airline’s home in the north. Flights from Barbados to Manchester will operate three times weekly on a Boeing 787.


Hannah Swift, Caribbean Country Manager at Virgin Atlantic, commented;

“There’s been a long pent up demand for travel and as restrictions are lifted from more Caribbean routes, we are excited to welcome even more passengers back on board and look forward to reconnecting them to friends and family across the UK.”

Earlier this week, Virgin Atlantic announced the return to its home turf in Terminal Three at London Heathrow, and look forward to welcoming customers back with its signature flair, Upper Class Wing for seamless premium check-in and award-winning facilities, our Clubhouse lounge.

Virgin Atlantic offers unlimited free date and flight changes for new bookings as part of a series of enhancements to give further flexibility to customers and support their future travel plans. Alongside the improved changes policy, the rebooking horizon has been extended for all customers all the way until 30 April 2023, giving a broader window of time to reschedule plans if needed.

To ensure the health and safety of customers and crew, Virgin Atlantic is implementing additional measures to offer peace of mind in the airport and when taking to the skies. These include enhanced and thorough cleaning practices at check in, boarding gates and onboard including the use of electrostatic spraying of high-grade disinfectant in all cabins and lavatories before every flight, ensuring no surface is left untouched. Safe distancing will also be adhered to wherever possible, and mask wearing will be required throughout the journey. All customers will be provided with a personal Health Pack for their health and safety, which will contain three medical grade face masks to be worn onboard, surface wipes and hand gel.


Ends

Further information

Virgin Atlantic’s Caribbean operations are as follows;

Barbados - London Heathrow will increase from 2x weekly (now) to 4x weekly from 15 July and daily (7x weekly) from 25 July. It will also switch to an Airbus A350 from a Boeing 787 five times weekly from August.

Grenada - London Heathrow will operate twice weekly from the 16 July.

Barbados - Manchester will return three times weekly from 7th August

Call me a pessimist but this won't end well.
 
windian425
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:56 am

These UK flights are already selling well. Expect most to be full of visitors hungry for a Caribbean holiday
 
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par13del
Posts: 11268
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:41 pm

caribny wrote:
Underestimating demand on core routes like YYZ POS and JFK POS while running flights to JFK MBJ and JFK BGI where they probably think that they can get leisure. What a thing, BW and the Govt of TT should listen to their own pilots who claim that more than 80% of the passengers are West Indians, the vast majority of whom live in North America. The TT govt has never really acknowledged these people in ways that other Caribbean gov'ts have.

The last time I visited Trinidad, government agents in the form of Immigration and Customs officers vetted me for entry into the country, including an extensive review of my passport and pointed questions as to why I was visiting, I would say that they would know better than the pilots on the a/c who is actually travelling to the island. Now whether they want to cater to segments or want to appear neutral in their role as a stakeholder in the local airline is another matter.....
 
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par13del
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:45 pm

windian425 wrote:
These UK flights are already selling well. Expect most to be full of visitors hungry for a Caribbean holiday

Hopefully the locals are all vaccinated against the virus that will be arriving on those flights, the fact that most of them are vaccinated does not prevent them from being carriers.
Remote resorts work best in these early stages of reopening until more vaccines and acceptance of less social contact is accepted, I honestly do not believe much more can be done for hesitancy, too much WhatsApp, Twitter, Road Side Lawyers and Doctors.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1282
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:28 pm

Locals will never be all vaccinated, but each destination country has rules such as requiring all visitors to have had a negative PCR test three days before departure and sometimes quarantining as well.
 
baje427
Posts: 1027
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:26 pm

gunnerman wrote:
Locals will never be all vaccinated, but each destination country has rules such as requiring all visitors to have had a negative PCR test three days before departure and sometimes quarantining as well.

We saw how that worked in BGI last winter season it didn't.
 
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par13del
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:20 pm

Sounds as if Barbados is going back into a two week lockdown starting next week, ongoing conference, facebook link only
https://www.facebook.com/BarbadosToday/ ... 1493155531
 
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par13del
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:23 pm

So far mostly a curfew and a delay of summer camps etc, so not a full lockdown.
 
baje427
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Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:33 pm

par13del wrote:
So far mostly a curfew and a delay of summer camps etc, so not a full lockdown.

This spike has coincided with increased flights into the island.
 
aa1818
Posts: 1643
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:58 pm

baje427 wrote:
par13del wrote:
So far mostly a curfew and a delay of summer camps etc, so not a full lockdown.

This spike has coincided with increased flights into the island.


3 positives were from flights.
There was a Church largely responsible for the majority of yesterday's cases.
Church service should only be conducted virtually. This is the third recently that has led to s spike.

Cheers,
AA1818
 
caribny
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:56 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
caribny wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:

I think they are underestimating demand for all of their routes and the staff cuts were premature/late depending on how you are looking at it. A contact in reservations told me over the weekend that they were surprised at how fast YYZ has been sold out in almost 48hrs after they announced the schedule; MIA and JFK are getting higher than anticipated volumes for requests.
The government needs to get out of the way and allow BW and the other airlines to let the market fix their schedule.


The demand for these flights was so high that BWs website and phones collapsed. I bet these are mainly overseas based TT folks anxious to get home.

Underestimating demand on core routes like YYZ POS and JFK POS while running flights to JFK MBJ and JFK BGI where they probably think that they can get leisure. What a thing, BW and the Govt of TT should listen to their own pilots who claim that more than 80% of the passengers are West Indians, the vast majority of whom live in North America. The TT govt has never really acknowledged these people in ways that other Caribbean gov'ts have.

Reports are that foreign consulting entities are advising BW. Of course we know that non Caribbean people tend to think that only tourists fly to the Caribbean, so probably told them that POS can take the bulk of the cuts. No matter when AA and B6 take over the POS market as they are already in the process of doing with GEO. TT people want to go home and will favor BW, but will take which ever carrier has seats with reasonable fares.


Eh, i feel like you are reaching here. JFK BGI / MBJ were running because POS was closed. Where else did you want them to fly?? Yes, CAL has admitted as much that they have under estimated the demand in/out of POS but comparing this early beginnings to an established schedule is disingenuous. I seriously doubt CAL will continue to underserve POS in favor of the JM market for example. Like come on! I know your opinions of CAL isnt the highest but I dont think (or at least dont hope) they are this clueless!


And yet they continue these flights when POS is under served. POS will now be open in a few days. If they have a shortage of assets why not focus on where there is the greatest return. And this should be conveyed to the TT gov't which insists that it cannot pour more $$ into the airline.
Last edited by caribny on Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
caribny
Posts: 868
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:08 pm

par13del wrote:
caribny wrote:
Underestimating demand on core routes like YYZ POS and JFK POS while running flights to JFK MBJ and JFK BGI where they probably think that they can get leisure. What a thing, BW and the Govt of TT should listen to their own pilots who claim that more than 80% of the passengers are West Indians, the vast majority of whom live in North America. The TT govt has never really acknowledged these people in ways that other Caribbean gov'ts have.

The last time I visited Trinidad, government agents in the form of Immigration and Customs officers vetted me for entry into the country, including an extensive review of my passport and pointed questions as to why I was visiting, I would say that they would know better than the pilots on the a/c who is actually travelling to the island. Now whether they want to cater to segments or want to appear neutral in their role as a stakeholder in the local airline is another matter.....


Well BWIA ignored other Caribbean people. lost their patronage, so to gallop back and think that this market is still there is wishful thinking, especially if the thinking is to get tourists on board. We do not even know how much of the GEO market is left for BW.

The pilots see live bodies. I will expect the pursers to be even more knowledgeable as they actually interact with these passengers, and of course also with the pilots. They can tell you the dynamics of these passengers because they actually speak with them, and observe their travel behaviors as they are the BW employees who spend the most time with them. Cabin crews know more about their passengers than do the bureaucrats at BW offices in Piarco and definitely some TT person in some Ministry, who only sees basic statistics. No wonder why some genius thinks that POS JFK is only double the size of POS MCO.

Anyone who is seriously telling me that POS JFK merits 4x and POS MCO 2x must be on some sort of medication. Anyone who is shocked that the flights are oversold must be flying in space. But here is my theory. They are gauging the market by OUTBOUND from POS where one can expect travel to be somewhat constrained, given that such travel is heavily business or discretionary leisure.

The NY VFR markets are back. Even GND is now getting daily B6 out of JFK even as other routes to that island from the USA seem to be down.
 
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par13del
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:21 am

caribny wrote:
Anyone who is seriously telling me that POS JFK merits 4x and POS MCO 2x must be on some sort of medication.

Well it all depends, the local carrier is in competition with how many foreign carriers, definitely more than one, and since they do not have the feed from a larger domestic / Caribbean network, the best they can do is to attempt to gain some volume by offering frequencies compatible to the competing carriers on prime routes, expecting the locals to be loyal and always full your one or two flights is doomed to fail. If they can corner the OD market into the island from those two airports its worth a try, other than that, just do what they were doing before offering token service as a "national" carrier and hope the governments continue to bail....
 
aa1818
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:50 pm

caribny wrote:
Anyone who is seriously telling me that POS JFK merits 4x and POS MCO 2x must be on some sort of medication. Anyone who is shocked that the flights are oversold must be flying in space. But here is my theory. They are gauging the market by OUTBOUND from POS where one can expect travel to be somewhat constrained, given that such travel is heavily business or discretionary leisure.

The NY VFR markets are back. Even GND is now getting daily B6 out of JFK even as other routes to that island from the USA seem to be down.


I think you're missing the point.
BE's current proposed schedule is no reflection of what they or the Government perceive the demand to be.
BW is a state-owned airline and T&T's borders are being reopened, subject to certain GORTT Restrictions with respect to airline service- what those are, is anybody's guess, but in limiting the flow of people to T&T, and in the interest of having as diverse a "network" that BW and the GORTT feels serves the national interests at this point in time:
- JFK is limited to 4x weekly for now- historically there were 4x daily flights on this route, and I have no doubt that we will get back there when BW is allowed to commercially set its schedule and capacity.
- MCO is set at 2x weekly- perhaps BW is seeing strong forward summer loads given kids have been in homes for over a year and families wish to get out.
Whether you agree or disagree with the approach, stop stating that someone is misinterpreting demand. This is not a demand/ supply schedule, this is a pandemic schedule. Why can't you seem to grasp that?

Rest assured, your dislike of BW will not hinder it from returning to it's normal schedule in the future, but for now, just accept that T&T's 'border reopening" is clearly not a free for all, there are restrictions (which is the big unknown).

AA1818
 
caribbean484
Posts: 1044
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:35 pm

caribny wrote:
par13del wrote:
caribny wrote:
Underestimating demand on core routes like YYZ POS and JFK POS while running flights to JFK MBJ and JFK BGI where they probably think that they can get leisure. What a thing, BW and the Govt of TT should listen to their own pilots who claim that more than 80% of the passengers are West Indians, the vast majority of whom live in North America. The TT govt has never really acknowledged these people in ways that other Caribbean gov'ts have.

The last time I visited Trinidad, government agents in the form of Immigration and Customs officers vetted me for entry into the country, including an extensive review of my passport and pointed questions as to why I was visiting, I would say that they would know better than the pilots on the a/c who is actually travelling to the island. Now whether they want to cater to segments or want to appear neutral in their role as a stakeholder in the local airline is another matter.....


Well BWIA ignored other Caribbean people. lost their patronage, so to gallop back and think that this market is still there is wishful thinking, especially if the thinking is to get tourists on board. We do not even know how much of the GEO market is left for BW.

The pilots see live bodies. I will expect the pursers to be even more knowledgeable as they actually interact with these passengers, and of course also with the pilots. They can tell you the dynamics of these passengers because they actually speak with them, and observe their travel behaviors as they are the BW employees who spend the most time with them. Cabin crews know more about their passengers than do the bureaucrats at BW offices in Piarco and definitely some TT person in some Ministry, who only sees basic statistics. No wonder why some genius thinks that POS JFK is only double the size of POS MCO.

Anyone who is seriously telling me that POS JFK merits 4x and POS MCO 2x must be on some sort of medication. Anyone who is shocked that the flights are oversold must be flying in space. But here is my theory. They are gauging the market by OUTBOUND from POS where one can expect travel to be somewhat constrained, given that such travel is heavily business or discretionary leisure.

The NY VFR markets are back. Even GND is now getting daily B6 out of JFK even as other routes to that island from the USA seem to be down.


I understand where you are coming from but as explained many times already, the schedule is what the GORTT is thinks it can handle from the airlines; so if BW is getting 4w rest assure B6 and AA will also have to present 4w flights from JFK and MIA.

As I mentioned it's either the borders are opened or closed, the Government should not be in the business of dictating demand for airlines at any time, however we have a group of people that like the idea of heavy fisted control.

On a better footing hearing that the cuts at BW is significantly reduced from the 450 put out as demand is looking up sooner, so we will see how this will play out.
Last edited by caribbean484 on Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
caribbean484
Posts: 1044
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:43 pm

baje427 wrote:
windian425 wrote:
Surprised this wasn't posted already but VS increasing flights to the Caribbean! Finally some good news...

July 2021

VIRGIN ATLANTIC INCREASES CAPACITY FROM CARIBBEAN ROUTES

 Flight capacity between the Caribbean and The UK is increasing by nearly 300%
 Airline is bringing forward the restart of many Caribbean flights following additions to the Government’s “Green” list
 Virgin Atlantic will bring its flagship Airbus A350 aircraft to Barbados in August, the newest and largest aircraft in the fleet
 Barbados to increase services to the UK 7x weekly from July 25th and 10 x weekly from August 7th
 Grenada to resume flights to the UK from July 16th, twice weekly.

Virgin Atlantic is increasing the number of flights between the Caribbean and The UK by nearly 300% after a surge in demand following the Government’s latest announcement, which saw Barbados and Grenada classified as “Green.”

Numerous Caribbean flights which were previously scheduled to recommence in August will now take off from July. From the 25th July, customers will be able to travel daily from Barbados to the UK and beyond.

The airline is also making its return to Grenada, with twice weekly flights resuming from the 16th July.

The airline will introduce the newest, largest aircraft in its fleet, the flagship Airbus A350, five times weekly on its Barbados service from the beginning of August, offering 335 seats per flight. Upper Class customers can experience its innovative private suite seats, social space, fondly known as The Loft. As the largest social space in the airline’s fleet, it’s designed for customers to gather, chat, enjoy a drink or dine with friends.

Virgin Atlantic’s other Caribbean services will operate on the airline’s state of the art Boeing 787s. Customers can choose to fly in one of five cabins, including the luxurious Upper Class, which offers an exclusive bar area and fully flat beds, or Premium, where customers can enjoy a 38” seat pitch, welcome drinks and fine dining.

Virgin Atlantic is also delighted to return to Manchester Airport from the 7th August, the airline’s home in the north. Flights from Barbados to Manchester will operate three times weekly on a Boeing 787.


Hannah Swift, Caribbean Country Manager at Virgin Atlantic, commented;

“There’s been a long pent up demand for travel and as restrictions are lifted from more Caribbean routes, we are excited to welcome even more passengers back on board and look forward to reconnecting them to friends and family across the UK.”

Earlier this week, Virgin Atlantic announced the return to its home turf in Terminal Three at London Heathrow, and look forward to welcoming customers back with its signature flair, Upper Class Wing for seamless premium check-in and award-winning facilities, our Clubhouse lounge.

Virgin Atlantic offers unlimited free date and flight changes for new bookings as part of a series of enhancements to give further flexibility to customers and support their future travel plans. Alongside the improved changes policy, the rebooking horizon has been extended for all customers all the way until 30 April 2023, giving a broader window of time to reschedule plans if needed.

To ensure the health and safety of customers and crew, Virgin Atlantic is implementing additional measures to offer peace of mind in the airport and when taking to the skies. These include enhanced and thorough cleaning practices at check in, boarding gates and onboard including the use of electrostatic spraying of high-grade disinfectant in all cabins and lavatories before every flight, ensuring no surface is left untouched. Safe distancing will also be adhered to wherever possible, and mask wearing will be required throughout the journey. All customers will be provided with a personal Health Pack for their health and safety, which will contain three medical grade face masks to be worn onboard, surface wipes and hand gel.


Ends

Further information

Virgin Atlantic’s Caribbean operations are as follows;

Barbados - London Heathrow will increase from 2x weekly (now) to 4x weekly from 15 July and daily (7x weekly) from 25 July. It will also switch to an Airbus A350 from a Boeing 787 five times weekly from August.

Grenada - London Heathrow will operate twice weekly from the 16 July.

Barbados - Manchester will return three times weekly from 7th August

Call me a pessimist but this won't end well.


I don't know, but I am trying to be positive and realistic also. VS will be serving LHR-TAB 2w via BGI with the A333 for the winter.
 
Caymanair
Posts: 541
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:53 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:28 pm

caribbean484 wrote:
caribny wrote:
par13del wrote:
The last time I visited Trinidad, government agents in the form of Immigration and Customs officers vetted me for entry into the country, including an extensive review of my passport and pointed questions as to why I was visiting, I would say that they would know better than the pilots on the a/c who is actually travelling to the island. Now whether they want to cater to segments or want to appear neutral in their role as a stakeholder in the local airline is another matter.....


Well BWIA ignored other Caribbean people. lost their patronage, so to gallop back and think that this market is still there is wishful thinking, especially if the thinking is to get tourists on board. We do not even know how much of the GEO market is left for BW.

The pilots see live bodies. I will expect the pursers to be even more knowledgeable as they actually interact with these passengers, and of course also with the pilots. They can tell you the dynamics of these passengers because they actually speak with them, and observe their travel behaviors as they are the BW employees who spend the most time with them. Cabin crews know more about their passengers than do the bureaucrats at BW offices in Piarco and definitely some TT person in some Ministry, who only sees basic statistics. No wonder why some genius thinks that POS JFK is only double the size of POS MCO.

Anyone who is seriously telling me that POS JFK merits 4x and POS MCO 2x must be on some sort of medication. Anyone who is shocked that the flights are oversold must be flying in space. But here is my theory. They are gauging the market by OUTBOUND from POS where one can expect travel to be somewhat constrained, given that such travel is heavily business or discretionary leisure.

The NY VFR markets are back. Even GND is now getting daily B6 out of JFK even as other routes to that island from the USA seem to be down.


I understand where you are coming from but as explained many times already, the schedule is what the GORTT is thinks it can handle from the airlines; so if BW is getting 4w rest assure B6 and AA will also have to present 4w flights from JFK and MIA.

As I mentioned it's either the borders are opened or closed, the Government should not be in the business of dictating demand for airlines at any time, however we have a group of people that like the idea of heavy fisted control.

On a better footing hearing that the cuts at BW is significantly reduced from the 450 put out as demand is looking up sooner, so we will see how this will play out.



In this case it is not a matter of government economic control. This is a health matter. So it is sensible to allow inbound arrival capacity based on the capacity of health authorities to test, trace, and treat. Throwing the doors open would be reckless.
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:01 pm

Caymanair wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:
caribny wrote:

Well BWIA ignored other Caribbean people. lost their patronage, so to gallop back and think that this market is still there is wishful thinking, especially if the thinking is to get tourists on board. We do not even know how much of the GEO market is left for BW.

The pilots see live bodies. I will expect the pursers to be even more knowledgeable as they actually interact with these passengers, and of course also with the pilots. They can tell you the dynamics of these passengers because they actually speak with them, and observe their travel behaviors as they are the BW employees who spend the most time with them. Cabin crews know more about their passengers than do the bureaucrats at BW offices in Piarco and definitely some TT person in some Ministry, who only sees basic statistics. No wonder why some genius thinks that POS JFK is only double the size of POS MCO.

Anyone who is seriously telling me that POS JFK merits 4x and POS MCO 2x must be on some sort of medication. Anyone who is shocked that the flights are oversold must be flying in space. But here is my theory. They are gauging the market by OUTBOUND from POS where one can expect travel to be somewhat constrained, given that such travel is heavily business or discretionary leisure.

The NY VFR markets are back. Even GND is now getting daily B6 out of JFK even as other routes to that island from the USA seem to be down.


I understand where you are coming from but as explained many times already, the schedule is what the GORTT is thinks it can handle from the airlines; so if BW is getting 4w rest assure B6 and AA will also have to present 4w flights from JFK and MIA.

As I mentioned it's either the borders are opened or closed, the Government should not be in the business of dictating demand for airlines at any time, however we have a group of people that like the idea of heavy fisted control.

On a better footing hearing that the cuts at BW is significantly reduced from the 450 put out as demand is looking up sooner, so we will see how this will play out.



In this case it is not a matter of government economic control. This is a health matter. So it is sensible to allow inbound arrival capacity based on the capacity of health authorities to test, trace, and treat. Throwing the doors open would be reckless.


Ok, but how do you devise a system that is fair an equitable to all, given not all airlines are equal? Whatever system is put in place may give an unfair advantage to one airline over the next. For example, limiting flights say to JFK to 1x daily, will advantage BW over say B6. I agree with caribbean484, the borders are either opened or they're not.

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