Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
embraer175e2 wrote:
windian425 wrote:BGI definatley needs a bumper winter season this year to kickstart any recovery from the C19 impacts. It's not over yet but today the arrival protocols into BGI were further relaxed to allow fully vaccinated travelers avoid any arrival testing or quarantine. In my estimation, this is aimed at preserving the Tourism industry and sending a message to the locals to get vaccinated. The world must move on and the pent up demand is real.... Look at St. Lucia who are also planning for a big winter season despite over 200 C19 deaths with a population of only 182k.
embraer175e2 wrote:Red Air will start charter flights between Santo domingo las americas and miami using an old mad dog md80.
https://aviacionaldia.com/2021/10/red-a ... miami.html
danipawa wrote:embraer175e2 wrote:Red Air will start charter flights between Santo domingo las americas and miami using an old mad dog md80.
https://aviacionaldia.com/2021/10/red-a ... miami.html
They are set to operate 4 MD81-82. They got permits to operate CCS, SJO, TPA and Colombia
caribny wrote:danipawa wrote:embraer175e2 wrote:Red Air will start charter flights between Santo domingo las americas and miami using an old mad dog md80.
https://aviacionaldia.com/2021/10/red-a ... miami.html
They are set to operate 4 MD81-82. They got permits to operate CCS, SJO, TPA and Colombia
Can a new airline with an ageing fleet compete against establish carriers with more modern planes? Several Dominican carriers have failed.
novarupta wrote:aa1818 wrote:caribny wrote:
At this point clearly no reliable investor has shown up though there remains a need for LI as no one is going to service their markets. BW has apparently discontinued its POS ANU service though maintains its KIN ANU flight as part of its KIN BGI operations.
Wonder how long LI can survive like this?
I did a dummy booking POS-ANU and its showing twice a week 737 service ANU-POS-BGI and BGI-POS-ANU through at least April 2022. I was considering using this service next year, so would be interested to hear more if it's actually been discontinued.
Cheers,
AA1818
That service (BWA459/458) you’re referring to runs KIN-ANU-POS-BGI and back to KIN via the same legs later in the day twice weekly. The service Caribny may be referring to is a once weekly POS-ANU-POS using the ATR on Fridays. To be honest though I haven’t heard any news here at TAPA about it being cancelled thus far either as it’s still fairly new.
Regarding LIAT, the PM says there are investors interested but I’d take that assertion with a bucket of salt in the best of times. He also said about a month ago that they apparently turned an operating profit….but on the absence of him putting out actual numbers, that leaves plenty of room for doubt - especially for an operation with three airplanes, five days a week with low load factors.
wadadli wrote:
BW POS/ANU/POS ATR Friday service never stopped. Flights are bookable through March, 2022 at the moment.
baje427 wrote:caribny wrote:danipawa wrote:
They are set to operate 4 MD81-82. They got permits to operate CCS, SJO, TPA and Colombia
Can a new airline with an ageing fleet compete against establish carriers with more modern planes? Several Dominican carriers have failed.
Good question on the plus side MD8x aircraft are cheap to acquire however, the challenge comes with reliability and fuel cost. Given how many aircraft have been returned in the last few years and the attractive lease prices one would think a new carrier would opt for the A320 or 737 ng to start their operations.
aa1818 wrote:wadadli wrote:
BW POS/ANU/POS ATR Friday service never stopped. Flights are bookable through March, 2022 at the moment.
Good to know- I guess if I visit next year and they don't restart the 737 continuing service from KIN, i'll just have to stay a week!
Heheh
Cheers
AA1818
caribny wrote:aa1818 wrote:wadadli wrote:
BW POS/ANU/POS ATR Friday service never stopped. Flights are bookable through March, 2022 at the moment.
Good to know- I guess if I visit next year and they don't restart the 737 continuing service from KIN, i'll just have to stay a week!
Heheh
Cheers
AA1818
Curious to see who is traveling within the region because I suspect that most of these trips are more in the 4 day range, yet frequencies in many instances are really low.
fowlr29 wrote:LI to restart St. Thomas sometime between November and December. No further details given
Brickell305 wrote:fowlr29 wrote:LI to restart St. Thomas sometime between November and December. No further details given
That’s great news. There will be demand to/from STT especially during the holiday period. LI’s focus seems to have been sharpened out of necessity. No longer looking solely at the biggest destinations (POS, OGL, BGI*) but looking at the routes/connections that other airlines will leave unserved and filling that niche role.
*I'm aware that they still serve BGI. However, service there has been greatly reduced and seems relatively token at this point.
caribny wrote:danipawa wrote:embraer175e2 wrote:Red Air will start charter flights between Santo domingo las americas and miami using an old mad dog md80.
https://aviacionaldia.com/2021/10/red-a ... miami.html
They are set to operate 4 MD81-82. They got permits to operate CCS, SJO, TPA and Colombia
Can a new airline with an ageing fleet compete against establish carriers with more modern planes? Several Dominican carriers have failed.
Brickell305 wrote:fowlr29 wrote:LI to restart St. Thomas sometime between November and December. No further details given
That’s great news. There will be demand to/from STT especially during the holiday period. LI’s focus seems to have been sharpened out of necessity. No longer looking solely at the biggest destinations (POS, OGL, BGI*) but looking at the routes/connections that other airlines will leave unserved and filling that niche role.
*I'm aware that they still serve BGI. However, service there has been greatly reduced and seems relatively token at this point.
aa1818 wrote:wadadli wrote:
BW POS/ANU/POS ATR Friday service never stopped. Flights are bookable through March, 2022 at the moment.
Good to know- I guess if I visit next year and they don't restart the 737 continuing service from KIN, i'll just have to stay a week!
Heheh
Cheers
AA1818
dominicl316 wrote:Brickell305 wrote:fowlr29 wrote:LI to restart St. Thomas sometime between November and December. No further details given
That’s great news. There will be demand to/from STT especially during the holiday period. LI’s focus seems to have been sharpened out of necessity. No longer looking solely at the biggest destinations (POS, OGL, BGI*) but looking at the routes/connections that other airlines will leave unserved and filling that niche role.
*I'm aware that they still serve BGI. However, service there has been greatly reduced and seems relatively token at this point.
LIAT has also indicated to the USVI government that they are looking into serving STX in the future, pending the recertification process with the FAA from Category 2 to Category 1.
Brickell305 wrote:dominicl316 wrote:Brickell305 wrote:That’s great news. There will be demand to/from STT especially during the holiday period. LI’s focus seems to have been sharpened out of necessity. No longer looking solely at the biggest destinations (POS, OGL, BGI*) but looking at the routes/connections that other airlines will leave unserved and filling that niche role.
*I'm aware that they still serve BGI. However, service there has been greatly reduced and seems relatively token at this point.
LIAT has also indicated to the USVI government that they are looking into serving STX in the future, pending the recertification process with the FAA from Category 2 to Category 1.
If recertification is an issue, how are they able to restart STT?
Brickell305 wrote:caribny wrote:aa1818 wrote:
Good to know- I guess if I visit next year and they don't restart the 737 continuing service from KIN, i'll just have to stay a week!
Heheh
Cheers
AA1818
Curious to see who is traveling within the region because I suspect that most of these trips are more in the 4 day range, yet frequencies in many instances are really low.
With the exception of a handful of routes, POS-ANU being one such exception, most of the regional routes running now are at least 2x weekly which allows for those 4 day trips. The only other exception I can think of is KIN-ANU-BGI and that only applies to the ANU leg as KIN-BGI operates nonstop as well. Can’t think of anything else LI, 3S, InterCaribbean or BW are running once weekly.
Brickell305 wrote:fowlr29 wrote:LI to restart St. Thomas sometime between November and December. No further details given
That’s great news. There will be demand to/from STT especially during the holiday period. LI’s focus seems to have been sharpened out of necessity. No longer looking solely at the biggest destinations (POS, OGL, BGI*) but looking at the routes/connections that other airlines will leave unserved and filling that niche role.
*I'm aware that they still serve BGI. However, service there has been greatly reduced and seems relatively token at this point.
trini81 wrote:CAL has announced the restart of their POS/KIN service from Dec 1 and a weekly POS/SXM/KIN from Dec 11.aa1818 wrote:wadadli wrote:
BW POS/ANU/POS ATR Friday service never stopped. Flights are bookable through March, 2022 at the moment.
Good to know- I guess if I visit next year and they don't restart the 737 continuing service from KIN, i'll just have to stay a week!
Heheh
Cheers
AA1818
caribny wrote:Brickell305 wrote:caribny wrote:
Curious to see who is traveling within the region because I suspect that most of these trips are more in the 4 day range, yet frequencies in many instances are really low.
With the exception of a handful of routes, POS-ANU being one such exception, most of the regional routes running now are at least 2x weekly which allows for those 4 day trips. The only other exception I can think of is KIN-ANU-BGI and that only applies to the ANU leg as KIN-BGI operates nonstop as well. Can’t think of anything else LI, 3S, InterCaribbean or BW are running once weekly.
2x weekly POS to GND, SVD, or SLU is low. This works for the more leisure oriented passenger. Lots of travel used to be about the quick trip and an analysis of BGI tourist arrivals will indicate this. LI used to offer those day trip fares for a reason. BGI is one of the few destinations which allows travelers flexibility. GEO/OGL as well from BGI and POS, but even POS BGI isnt as flexible as one would think given that on certain days BW has 2 flights, meaning that it isnt 4w flights spread evenly across the week.
Travel within the Caribbean is much more complex than one would think. It doesnt break down neatly into the corporate business trip, or conventional hotel based leisure trip as one would think. There are trips triggered by family situations as an example and these have to be fitted into work schedules, and I refer especially to VFR markets within the Caribbean where low end workers do not necessarily control their work schedules.
I suspect that much of the decline in traffic isnt just about pandemic protocols or declining incomes but just the hassles of scheduling this travel.
HIA350 wrote:caribny wrote:danipawa wrote:
They are set to operate 4 MD81-82. They got permits to operate CCS, SJO, TPA and Colombia
Can a new airline with an ageing fleet compete against establish carriers with more modern planes? Several Dominican carriers have failed.
Nope, they need investors like David Neeleman, new planes or second hand not so old like the mad dogs will do just fine, 10 /12 years a320s or 737 ngs will do just fine
Brickell305 wrote:caribny wrote:Brickell305 wrote:With the exception of a handful of routes, POS-ANU being one such exception, most of the regional routes running now are at least 2x weekly which allows for those 4 day trips. The only other exception I can think of is KIN-ANU-BGI and that only applies to the ANU leg as KIN-BGI operates nonstop as well. Can’t think of anything else LI, 3S, InterCaribbean or BW are running once weekly.
2x weekly POS to GND, SVD, or SLU is low. This works for the more leisure oriented passenger. Lots of travel used to be about the quick trip and an analysis of BGI tourist arrivals will indicate this. LI used to offer those day trip fares for a reason. BGI is one of the few destinations which allows travelers flexibility. GEO/OGL as well from BGI and POS, but even POS BGI isnt as flexible as one would think given that on certain days BW has 2 flights, meaning that it isnt 4w flights spread evenly across the week.
Travel within the Caribbean is much more complex than one would think. It doesnt break down neatly into the corporate business trip, or conventional hotel based leisure trip as one would think. There are trips triggered by family situations as an example and these have to be fitted into work schedules, and I refer especially to VFR markets within the Caribbean where low end workers do not necessarily control their work schedules.
I suspect that much of the decline in traffic isnt just about pandemic protocols or declining incomes but just the hassles of scheduling this travel.
I agree on your last point about the hassle of travel. The issue is that it’s a vicious circle. If the airlines don’t see demand, they are going to continue to offer the meager schedules they are offering. As long as those schedules remain meager, it will deter at least some travel and it will take longer for airlines to see the demand necessary to restore full schedules. I don’t think this is a primary issue though. The main issues are likely:
1. the continued restrictions in the islands. Why pay to leave your island which is under curfew to visit another island which is under similar or even harsher curfew?
2. The additional cost of travel due to required testing.
3. The lack of events or other catalysts for travel. This is related to point 1.
4. In the specific case of BGI, the fact that the US embassy has gone remote and visits are no longer required (at least for now).
baje427 wrote:caribny wrote:danipawa wrote:
They are set to operate 4 MD81-82. They got permits to operate CCS, SJO, TPA and Colombia
Can a new airline with an ageing fleet compete against establish carriers with more modern planes? Several Dominican carriers have failed.
Good question on the plus side MD8x aircraft are cheap to acquire however, the challenge comes with reliability and fuel cost. Given how many aircraft have been returned in the last few years and the attractive lease prices one would think a new carrier would opt for the A320 or 737 ng to start their operations.
miaami wrote:When will AA restart flights to GCM?
windian425 wrote:Tomorrow starts the W21/22 Winter Season and BA will have 3 flights into BGI from London. 2 flights from LHR arriving at 15:25 and 18:45 plus a LGW flight arriving at 18:30. All flights operated with B777's with the first LHR flight a 77W. Definitely a first for BA to BGI; 3 scheduled flights in on day.
windian425 wrote:Tomorrow starts the W21/22 Winter Season and BA will have 3 flights into BGI from London. 2 flights from LHR arriving at 15:25 and 18:45 plus a LGW flight arriving at 18:30. All flights operated with B777's with the first LHR flight a 77W. Definitely a first for BA to BGI; 3 scheduled flights in on day.
windian425 wrote:Tomorrow starts the W21/22 Winter Season and BA will have 3 flights into BGI from London. 2 flights from LHR arriving at 15:25 and 18:45 plus a LGW flight arriving at 18:30. All flights operated with B777's with the first LHR flight a 77W. Definitely a first for BA to BGI; 3 scheduled flights in on day.
aa1818 wrote:Anyone knows if KLM has local traffic rights between BGI and POS?
Cheers,
AA1818
baje427 wrote:windian425 wrote:Tomorrow starts the W21/22 Winter Season and BA will have 3 flights into BGI from London. 2 flights from LHR arriving at 15:25 and 18:45 plus a LGW flight arriving at 18:30. All flights operated with B777's with the first LHR flight a 77W. Definitely a first for BA to BGI; 3 scheduled flights in on day.
I'm curious about the loads on these flights. That being said any word on VS's schedule for the winter season?
BWA900 wrote:baje427 wrote:windian425 wrote:Tomorrow starts the W21/22 Winter Season and BA will have 3 flights into BGI from London. 2 flights from LHR arriving at 15:25 and 18:45 plus a LGW flight arriving at 18:30. All flights operated with B777's with the first LHR flight a 77W. Definitely a first for BA to BGI; 3 scheduled flights in on day.
I'm curious about the loads on these flights. That being said any word on VS's schedule for the winter season?
VS is flying from LHR, MAN & EDI with a mix of the A350, A330 & the 787.
LHR 9x weekly (tagging 4x GND & 2x SVD - A330)
MAN 5x weekly - 789
EDI 2x weekly - A330