Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
caribny wrote:baje427 wrote:Any word on how BW's BGI-JFK route is doing?
Spoke to a Bajan who splits her time between the two points and she doesnt even think of them. Habits are hard to break and she has been using B6 for years, and not unhappy with them. While I understand BWs constraints I also suspect that a once weekly flight on a Thursday isnt exactly a hit when B6 offers service in the weekend.
But maybe they are doing well. A mere 150 seats per week arent hard to fill and maybe there are enough people who don't like B6. BW I suspect has a better record of punctuality than they do and some might like their Caribbean ambience. What is important is that they havent withdrawn the service even as having just 2 planes in KIN leaves them stretched at peak times (cutting its KIN JFK during peak periods to accommodate JFK MBJ).
It also depends on whether they have captured JFK DOM traffic as BW is now the easiest way to travel between those 2 points. JFK DOM passengers have long complained about the inconvenience of this and BW now offers a good solution. Its a small market but if most travelling between these two points do so on just one flight it might well offset not great numbers on the BGI itself.
embraer175e2 wrote:caribny wrote:embraer175e2 wrote:
I see they opened Montrael and New York flights:
https://paxex.aero/air-france-guadeloup ... york-city/
They also do MIA, PAP, and CAY, subject to Covid limitations.
Are they earning money with these routes?
embraer175e2 wrote:Does Nigerias Air peace fly on Jamaica? I saw a plane picture in the jamaican thread.
baje427 wrote:caribny wrote:baje427 wrote:Any word on how BW's BGI-JFK route is doing?
Spoke to a Bajan who splits her time between the two points and she doesnt even think of them. Habits are hard to break and she has been using B6 for years, and not unhappy with them. While I understand BWs constraints I also suspect that a once weekly flight on a Thursday isnt exactly a hit when B6 offers service in the weekend.
But maybe they are doing well. A mere 150 seats per week arent hard to fill and maybe there are enough people who don't like B6. BW I suspect has a better record of punctuality than they do and some might like their Caribbean ambience. What is important is that they havent withdrawn the service even as having just 2 planes in KIN leaves them stretched at peak times (cutting its KIN JFK during peak periods to accommodate JFK MBJ).
It also depends on whether they have captured JFK DOM traffic as BW is now the easiest way to travel between those 2 points. JFK DOM passengers have long complained about the inconvenience of this and BW now offers a good solution. Its a small market but if most travelling between these two points do so on just one flight it might well offset not great numbers on the BGI itself.
True if they last on the route they should be able to do ok for winter provided BGI is not back in lockdown.
embraer175e2 wrote:caribny wrote:embraer175e2 wrote:
I see they opened Montrael and New York flights:
https://paxex.aero/air-france-guadeloup ... york-city/
They also do MIA, PAP, and CAY, subject to Covid limitations.
Are they earning money with these routes?
caribny wrote:embraer175e2 wrote:caribny wrote:
They also do MIA, PAP, and CAY, subject to Covid limitations.
Are they earning money with these routes?
I assume so. Large Haitian population in the French Antilles and there must be decent travel to French Guyane from the Antilles and Haiti.
MAH4546 wrote:embraer175e2 wrote:caribny wrote:
They also do MIA, PAP, and CAY, subject to Covid limitations.
Are they earning money with these routes?
Air France has been flying regionally within the French Caribbean and Miami since the early 1960s without interruption. Limited air service from the French Caribbean, especially to the States, probably keeps them profitable as fares are high.
embraer175e2 wrote:MAH4546 wrote:embraer175e2 wrote:Are they earning money with these routes?
Air France has been flying regionally within the French Caribbean and Miami since the early 1960s without interruption. Limited air service from the French Caribbean, especially to the States, probably keeps them profitable as fares are high.
Whats the cost for a Miami ticket with AF?
Does American Airlines also fly on the same Miami -guadeloupe / martinique routes?
caribny wrote:embraer175e2 wrote:MAH4546 wrote:
Air France has been flying regionally within the French Caribbean and Miami since the early 1960s without interruption. Limited air service from the French Caribbean, especially to the States, probably keeps them profitable as fares are high.
Whats the cost for a Miami ticket with AF?
Does American Airlines also fly on the same Miami -guadeloupe / martinique routes?
Prior to Covid AA flew nonstop flights out of MIA to those islands. I think that these will resume this winter. Their focus is on leisure market connectivity via its MIA hub. I suspect that AF focuses on travel by French Caribbean people (including Haitians) on the MIA sector. Not sure if/when the MIA PAP segment of AFs MIA route is being reinstated as they will be running some nonstop MIA PTP this winter.
Caymanair wrote:I think we can scrap the talk of flights returning to GCM for now...
It has just been announced that reopening plans will be 'paused' until 2022.
Brickell305 wrote:Also, anecdotally, most of that flight usually deplanes in PAP.
trintocan wrote:I'm just catching up with things in our forum. First, the reopening of flights between T&T and the UK would have been influenced by both the border closure of T&T until July and the fact that the country remains on the British red list. The travel picture for the UK is changing with the traffic-light categorisation of countries ending from early October. From that time countries will be listed as either open or red (effectively off-limits). While 8 countries are being removed from the UK's current red list T&T is not one of them. This means that for the moment travellers from T&T are not allowed into the UK unless they are British citizens or residents. If they are, they must quarantine at a hotel for 10 days at a cost of £2,250 or so for the 1st adult with surcharges for other adults and children. They must also undergo tests on days 2 and 8 after arrival. The new arrangement will largely preserve these rules. Where DE is concerned I am not aware of whether Germany has a similar list but the closed T&T borders for a long time and the slow recovery of tourism would certainly be factors playing into if and when hey resume service.
Please do not underestimate the routes between ORY and FDF and PTP. If one compiles a list of the 10 busiest trans-Atlantic routes both will feature! The sheer traffic on these routes for the reasons well-described above ensure that the 4-5 daily widebodies out of FDF and the 5-7 daily from PTP are kept very busy. No trans-Atlantic route from any other Caribbean island comes even close to this. ORY-CAY is somewhat smaller (French Guiana's population is much smaller anyway) but can still see 2 widebodies a day at times.
I do not know much about InterCaribbean but let's not forget that the Turks & Caicos is not in CariCom so the need to prioritise nationals of the bloc when recruiting is not as compelling. Where the ex-LI staff are concerned I think that the primary issue is type rating for the Embraer fleet they fly. Things may well change if they grow more in BGI and operate more ATR aircraft.
BW needs those MAX 8s aboard as soon as possible, the 737-800s have served them long and well but are becoming long in the tooth. If they are to be competitive going forward as the travel markets reopen the newer product on the MAX should serve them well.
Trintocan.
caribny wrote:Correct about PTP/FDF. Even though traffic from points outside of France (inclusive of its overseas regions) is light both airports rank among the Caribbean's busiest. PTP/FDF arent part of the Caribbean, nor of the Americas. These are far flung regions of Europe. CAY is even worse as the only flights from outside of France enter from Brazil. The Haiti flights arrive via "France". I do not know how much non French Antillean Caribbean people appreciate the fact that these territories are not part of this hemisphere as far as travel goes. In 15 minutes one flies from SLU to Europe! Dominicans can see Europe on the horizon (Guadeloupe) as can Kittitians (St Barth's)
richard757 wrote:Trinidad and Tobago remains as a Red List country. I suspect that British Airways and Virgin Atlantic will delay services to the islands until Trinidad and Tobago is removed from the Red List. Also, it is an expensive cost for returning passengers with the quarantine. Tourism will be adversely affected in Tobago.
beeweel15 wrote:richard757 wrote:Trinidad and Tobago remains as a Red List country. I suspect that British Airways and Virgin Atlantic will delay services to the islands until Trinidad and Tobago is removed from the Red List. Also, it is an expensive cost for returning passengers with the quarantine. Tourism will be adversely affected in Tobago.
HELLO TOBAGO there are 330 million plus people with in 4hours of you why aren't you not reaching out to them. There are other tourists besides Europe
trintocan wrote:I'm just catching up with things in our forum. First, the reopening of flights between T&T and the UK would have been influenced by both the border closure of T&T until July and the fact that the country remains on the British red list. The travel picture for the UK is changing with the traffic-light categorisation of countries ending from early October. From that time countries will be listed as either open or red (effectively off-limits). While 8 countries are being removed from the UK's current red list T&T is not one of them. This means that for the moment travellers from T&T are not allowed into the UK unless they are British citizens or residents. If they are, they must quarantine at a hotel for 10 days at a cost of £2,250 or so for the 1st adult with surcharges for other adults and children. They must also undergo tests on days 2 and 8 after arrival. The new arrangement will largely preserve these rules. Where DE is concerned I am not aware of whether Germany has a similar list but the closed T&T borders for a long time and the slow recovery of tourism would certainly be factors playing into if and when hey resume service.
Brickell305 wrote:beeweel15 wrote:richard757 wrote:Trinidad and Tobago remains as a Red List country. I suspect that British Airways and Virgin Atlantic will delay services to the islands until Trinidad and Tobago is removed from the Red List. Also, it is an expensive cost for returning passengers with the quarantine. Tourism will be adversely affected in Tobago.
HELLO TOBAGO there are 330 million plus people with in 4hours of you why aren't you not reaching out to them. There are other tourists besides Europe
I’ve never understood why Tobago hasn’t been marketed more heavily to the American tourist. One could argue that it’s relatively distant from the US compared to other Caribbean destinations but so are BGI and GND and both those destinations market themselves significantly. I suspect it may have to do with Trinidad not being tourism dependent and therefore lacking the marketing expertise that is found on more tourism dependent islands. It could also be that the fact that the larger island isn’t traditionally touristy makes would be vacationers conflate the two and assume that Tobago isn’t touristy either. Either way, I do find it strange that TAB hasn’t been pushed more to the US traveler.
United787 wrote:Can anyone tell me the status of the terminal repair/renovation/reconstruction from 2017's Hurricane Irma? I was last at SXM in 2019 and they had a long way to go. Is the reconstruction complete? Is the upper floor open and operating?
United787 wrote:United787 wrote:Can anyone tell me the status of the terminal repair/renovation/reconstruction from 2017's Hurricane Irma? I was last at SXM in 2019 and they had a long way to go. Is the reconstruction complete? Is the upper floor open and operating?
Sorry, meant for SXM.
United787 wrote:United787 wrote:Can anyone tell me the status of the terminal repair/renovation/reconstruction from 2017's Hurricane Irma? I was last at SXM in 2019 and they had a long way to go. Is the reconstruction complete? Is the upper floor open and operating?
Sorry, meant for SXM.
fowlr29 wrote:United787 wrote:United787 wrote:Can anyone tell me the status of the terminal repair/renovation/reconstruction from 2017's Hurricane Irma? I was last at SXM in 2019 and they had a long way to go. Is the reconstruction complete? Is the upper floor open and operating?
Sorry, meant for SXM.
Airport is the same as is it was in 2021 from a passenger perspective. Work is going on behind the scenes but nothing will change until summer 2023.
dominicl316 wrote:Saw two different WinAir Twin Otters flying over STX today. They didn't land, just left SXM and returned to SXM. Found this very interesting, as WM does not have landing rights in U.S. territories. Are they intending on serving STX once SXM eventually goes back to FAA Category 1 status?
caribny wrote:trintocan wrote:I'm just catching up with things in our forum. First, the reopening of flights between T&T and the UK would have been influenced by both the border closure of T&T until July and the fact that the country remains on the British red list. The travel picture for the UK is changing with the traffic-light categorisation of countries ending from early October. From that time countries will be listed as either open or red (effectively off-limits). While 8 countries are being removed from the UK's current red list T&T is not one of them. This means that for the moment travellers from T&T are not allowed into the UK unless they are British citizens or residents. If they are, they must quarantine at a hotel for 10 days at a cost of £2,250 or so for the 1st adult with surcharges for other adults and children. They must also undergo tests on days 2 and 8 after arrival. The new arrangement will largely preserve these rules. Where DE is concerned I am not aware of whether Germany has a similar list but the closed T&T borders for a long time and the slow recovery of tourism would certainly be factors playing into if and when hey resume service.
Please do not underestimate the routes between ORY and FDF and PTP. If one compiles a list of the 10 busiest trans-Atlantic routes both will feature! The sheer traffic on these routes for the reasons well-described above ensure that the 4-5 daily widebodies out of FDF and the 5-7 daily from PTP are kept very busy. No trans-Atlantic route from any other Caribbean island comes even close to this. ORY-CAY is somewhat smaller (French Guiana's population is much smaller anyway) but can still see 2 widebodies a day at times.
I do not know much about InterCaribbean but let's not forget that the Turks & Caicos is not in CariCom so the need to prioritise nationals of the bloc when recruiting is not as compelling. Where the ex-LI staff are concerned I think that the primary issue is type rating for the Embraer fleet they fly. Things may well change if they grow more in BGI and operate more ATR aircraft.
BW needs those MAX 8s aboard as soon as possible, the 737-800s have served them long and well but are becoming long in the tooth. If they are to be competitive going forward as the travel markets reopen the newer product on the MAX should serve them well.
Trintocan.
Correct about PTP/FDF. Even though traffic from points outside of France (inclusive of its overseas regions) is light both airports rank among the Caribbean's busiest. PTP/FDF arent part of the Caribbean, nor of the Americas. These are far flung regions of Europe. CAY is even worse as the only flights from outside of France enter from Brazil. The Haiti flights arrive via "France". I do not know how much non French Antillean Caribbean people appreciate the fact that these territories are not part of this hemisphere as far as travel goes. In 15 minutes one flies from SLU to Europe! Dominicans can see Europe on the horizon (Guadeloupe) as can Kittitians (St Barth's).
Its interesting to see Inter Caribbean's scheduling. They have been pushing back resumption of their pre pandemic schedule all year. Their BGI hub must be a big disappointment for them as LI used to run 14+ flights daily. Inter Caribbean struggles with 2x daily. The importance of US visa travel for BGI has been revealed as diminished demand for such visas and a move to online processing for visa renewals has reduced demand. Business travel is also diminished. 3 BW flights (2 738s and 1 ATR) leaving SKB last Thursday showed some travel for CPL, because all matches were there. Doubtful that a cricket game in BGI will generate as much visitor demand from points in the region if its just one match.
So I do not know where Inter Caribbean goes with its ATRs. It doesnt look like BGI can support these planes. Their heavier routes in the northern Caribbean already see e-jets.
A388 wrote:caribny wrote:Correct about PTP/FDF. Even though traffic from points outside of France (inclusive of its overseas regions) is light both airports rank among the Caribbean's busiest. PTP/FDF arent part of the Caribbean, nor of the Americas. These are far flung regions of Europe. CAY is even worse as the only flights from outside of France enter from Brazil. The Haiti flights arrive via "France". I do not know how much non French Antillean Caribbean people appreciate the fact that these territories are not part of this hemisphere as far as travel goes. In 15 minutes one flies from SLU to Europe! Dominicans can see Europe on the horizon (Guadeloupe) as can Kittitians (St Barth's)
When purely looking at historical ties and being part of the EU through the Netherlands, Curacao actually is also not doing bad. We used to have 2 daily nonstop flights to/from AMS on KLM and TUI Netherlands. This year in the summer, this was 4 times daily (KLM 2 x daily and TUI 2 x daily). Now it is down to 16 weekly but in the winter it will most likely be 4 daily flights again. Curacao is a well known holiday destination for the Dutch. So, we're by far not at the level of Guadeloupe and Martinique but looking at the historical ties and link to the EU, I do think that we come in second place behind Guadeloupe and Martinique.
A388
Brickell305 wrote:beeweel15 wrote:richard757 wrote:Trinidad and Tobago remains as a Red List country. I suspect that British Airways and Virgin Atlantic will delay services to the islands until Trinidad and Tobago is removed from the Red List. Also, it is an expensive cost for returning passengers with the quarantine. Tourism will be adversely affected in Tobago.
HELLO TOBAGO there are 330 million plus people with in 4hours of you why aren't you not reaching out to them. There are other tourists besides Europe
I’ve never understood why Tobago hasn’t been marketed more heavily to the American tourist. One could argue that it’s relatively distant from the US compared to other Caribbean destinations but so are BGI and GND and both those destinations market themselves significantly. I suspect it may have to do with Trinidad not being tourism dependent and therefore lacking the marketing expertise that is found on more tourism dependent islands. It could also be that the fact that the larger island isn’t traditionally touristy makes would be vacationers conflate the two and assume that Tobago isn’t touristy either. Either way, I do find it strange that TAB hasn’t been pushed more to the US traveler.
caribny wrote:Does CUR get each flight exclusively to itself or is it shared with another island? CUR and AUA are well integrated into the Americas with ample service to the USA and South America with some to the Caribbean, so do not exist as this extension of "Europe in a bubble" as do the French islands, and especially CAY. Pre pandemic CUR was very accessible to anyone and AUA was almost an extension of the USA, receiving very heavy service when one considers its small size and the fact that it isnt a US territory.
baje427 wrote:We have to appreciate most Caribbean economies are depressed. In addition, most islands in the EC are experiencing Covid surges and have various curfews and restrictions. There really is no incentive to travel, if by some miracle Covid abates we can have a better view of JY's BGI ops but as it stands things are bleak.
A388 wrote:caribny wrote:Does CUR get each flight exclusively to itself or is it shared with another island? CUR and AUA are well integrated into the Americas with ample service to the USA and South America with some to the Caribbean, so do not exist as this extension of "Europe in a bubble" as do the French islands, and especially CAY. Pre pandemic CUR was very accessible to anyone and AUA was almost an extension of the USA, receiving very heavy service when one considers its small size and the fact that it isnt a US territory.
Some flights are shared but most of the passengers go to CUR. And no, we don't get ample flights from the Americas. Only AUA does, not CUR. We will have a serious problem if the Dutch traffic isn't here. We are not any European bubble but the discussion was looking at the size of the traffic. With 4 daily flights to CUR from AMS, I don't think any other islands in the Caribbean has that. Most of this traffic is due to the historical ties we have with the Netherlands as both locals (living in CUR and the Netherlands) and citizens from the Netherlands itself fly the route.
A388
caribny wrote:A388 wrote:caribny wrote:Does CUR get each flight exclusively to itself or is it shared with another island? CUR and AUA are well integrated into the Americas with ample service to the USA and South America with some to the Caribbean, so do not exist as this extension of "Europe in a bubble" as do the French islands, and especially CAY. Pre pandemic CUR was very accessible to anyone and AUA was almost an extension of the USA, receiving very heavy service when one considers its small size and the fact that it isnt a US territory.
Some flights are shared but most of the passengers go to CUR. And no, we don't get ample flights from the Americas. Only AUA does, not CUR. We will have a serious problem if the Dutch traffic isn't here. We are not any European bubble but the discussion was looking at the size of the traffic. With 4 daily flights to CUR from AMS, I don't think any other islands in the Caribbean has that. Most of this traffic is due to the historical ties we have with the Netherlands as both locals (living in CUR and the Netherlands) and citizens from the Netherlands itself fly the route.
A388
I see more parallels between CUR and BGI than with PTP. For historical reasons UK travelers prefer BGI (to the more US oriented MBJ) just as Dutch tourists prefer CUR to AUA. Even though the very heavy pandemic in the French Antilles has depressed travel from France I still see 3 flights arriving from Paris to PTP. From AMS only one flight to CUR wasnt shared with other islands. This winter BGI will be seeing more than 4 daily flights once one adds up BA, VS and TUI.
Last summer I was seeing as many as 8 flights into PTP from PAR. Guadeloupe folks are considerably less likely to travel outside of a Francophone bubble when compared to you guys who will happily jump on a plane and fly to points outside of the Netherlands and the ABC.
CUR is like TAB in terms of the US market. I guess South American travelers were very lucrative in times past so CUR ignored the North Americans, with the result being that AUA got the US traveler in a huge way.. But pre pandemic this market was beginning to develop. I suspect that the extreme dependence on Dutch travel is more because the South American market has gone dead for obvious reasons.
Also if/when we get to post pandemic and more travel resumes to DR/Cuba will CUR get as much travel from the Netherlands by Dutch tourists?
A388 wrote:caribny wrote:A388 wrote:
Some flights are shared but most of the passengers go to CUR. And no, we don't get ample flights from the Americas. Only AUA does, not CUR. We will have a serious problem if the Dutch traffic isn't here. We are not any European bubble but the discussion was looking at the size of the traffic. With 4 daily flights to CUR from AMS, I don't think any other islands in the Caribbean has that. Most of this traffic is due to the historical ties we have with the Netherlands as both locals (living in CUR and the Netherlands) and citizens from the Netherlands itself fly the route.
A388
I see more parallels between CUR and BGI than with PTP. For historical reasons UK travelers prefer BGI (to the more US oriented MBJ) just as Dutch tourists prefer CUR to AUA. Even though the very heavy pandemic in the French Antilles has depressed travel from France I still see 3 flights arriving from Paris to PTP. From AMS only one flight to CUR wasnt shared with other islands. This winter BGI will be seeing more than 4 daily flights once one adds up BA, VS and TUI.
Last summer I was seeing as many as 8 flights into PTP from PAR. Guadeloupe folks are considerably less likely to travel outside of a Francophone bubble when compared to you guys who will happily jump on a plane and fly to points outside of the Netherlands and the ABC.
CUR is like TAB in terms of the US market. I guess South American travelers were very lucrative in times past so CUR ignored the North Americans, with the result being that AUA got the US traveler in a huge way.. But pre pandemic this market was beginning to develop. I suspect that the extreme dependence on Dutch travel is more because the South American market has gone dead for obvious reasons.
Also if/when we get to post pandemic and more travel resumes to DR/Cuba will CUR get as much travel from the Netherlands by Dutch tourists?
Yes, I agree with that too. CUR is more comparable to BGI. The difference being that we are part of the EU through the Dutch Kingdom. That is my point, nothing else. I think we do get more traffic than TAB. TAB doesn't get any US flights as far as I know. And of course we're not getting more traffic compared to Cuba and the DR. That is comparing apples with pears. No island gets more tourist variety than Cuba and DR. Again, I'm only looking at it from a being part of the Netherlands Kingdom point of view. We're not fully integrated like France is but we're part of the Netherlands Kingdom.
I absolutely agree with you if disregard that and only look at the tourist numbers. In that case we are almost on the bottom of the list
A388
United787 wrote:fowlr29 wrote:United787 wrote:
Sorry, meant for SXM.
Airport is the same as is it was in 2021 from a passenger perspective. Work is going on behind the scenes but nothing will change until summer 2023.
I assume you mean "..same as it was in 2019..."? If so, that is crazy that it will be 6 years for reconstruction!?!?!
Gonzalo wrote:Hello everybody, please excuse me if I use this thread with the purpose of gathering some fresh information from you, let's hope someone can help. I have a flight booked with COPA airlines for November 17th, with destination SXM. I've been checking the SXM Daily Herald web to know some news about the situation on "the friendly island" and while the border is open, the sanitary situation as a whole is very unstable, with the French side having lot of infections at one point, and then the Dutch side having more Covid cases, like I said, a constantly changing situation despite the vaccines. Probably as a consequence of this scenario, the airline ( COPA ) is indeed NOT flying to the island, and when you try to book flights to SXM via COPA, the site just don't get any flight available, at any date in the coming months. Do some of you know something about COPA plans for the future in regards with SXM ? Is there a chance that COPA just withdrawn the route definitely ? What do you recommend as a course of action ? Maybe changing the dates hoping for COPA to resume flights ? Or just try to book a flight with other airline ?
Any feedback will be appreciated.
Cheers!!
Gonzalo
Brickell305 wrote:Pre-COVID, TAB had a single flight from the US. A once weekly BW flight from JFK. TAB has very few flights from the UK as well. IIRC, it was a once weekly VS flight and a twice weekly BA flight from LGW. The bulk of TAB's tourists are domestic. I'm not sure what the overall number of tourists from Trinidad is though but it could actually leave them with a pretty significant overall tourism number. This all is pre-COVID of course.
gunnerman wrote:Brickell305 wrote:Pre-COVID, TAB had a single flight from the US. A once weekly BW flight from JFK. TAB has very few flights from the UK as well. IIRC, it was a once weekly VS flight and a twice weekly BA flight from LGW. The bulk of TAB's tourists are domestic. I'm not sure what the overall number of tourists from Trinidad is though but it could actually leave them with a pretty significant overall tourism number. This all is pre-COVID of course.
Pre-pandemic Tobago also had a weekly DE flight on Tuesdays, routeing was FRA-TAB-BGI-FRA, but nothing's scheduled for the future yet. Other flights since ceased include Thomas Cook from MAN each week in 2016/17 and 2017/18 and Sunwings from YYZ each week in 2018/19 and 1019/20.
In the old days Caledonian Airways flew LGW-TAB-BGI-LGW.
There won't be any big increase in flights as even before the pandemic tourist numbers plummeted from a peak of 87,796 in 2005 to under 20,000 in 2019 due to various factors such as incompetetence (funding to tourism was actually cut) and competition from Grenada.
A388 wrote:caribny wrote:A388 wrote:
Some flights are shared but most of the passengers go to CUR. And no, we don't get ample flights from the Americas. Only AUA does, not CUR. We will have a serious problem if the Dutch traffic isn't here. We are not any European bubble but the discussion was looking at the size of the traffic. With 4 daily flights to CUR from AMS, I don't think any other islands in the Caribbean has that. Most of this traffic is due to the historical ties we have with the Netherlands as both locals (living in CUR and the Netherlands) and citizens from the Netherlands itself fly the route.
A388
I see more parallels between CUR and BGI than with PTP. For historical reasons UK travelers prefer BGI (to the more US oriented MBJ) just as Dutch tourists prefer CUR to AUA. Even though the very heavy pandemic in the French Antilles has depressed travel from France I still see 3 flights arriving from Paris to PTP. From AMS only one flight to CUR wasnt shared with other islands. This winter BGI will be seeing more than 4 daily flights once one adds up BA, VS and TUI.
Last summer I was seeing as many as 8 flights into PTP from PAR. Guadeloupe folks are considerably less likely to travel outside of a Francophone bubble when compared to you guys who will happily jump on a plane and fly to points outside of the Netherlands and the ABC.
CUR is like TAB in terms of the US market. I guess South American travelers were very lucrative in times past so CUR ignored the North Americans, with the result being that AUA got the US traveler in a huge way.. But pre pandemic this market was beginning to develop. I suspect that the extreme dependence on Dutch travel is more because the South American market has gone dead for obvious reasons.
Also if/when we get to post pandemic and more travel resumes to DR/Cuba will CUR get as much travel from the Netherlands by Dutch tourists?
Yes, I agree with that too. CUR is more comparable to BGI. The difference being that we are part of the EU through the Dutch Kingdom. That is my point, nothing else. I think we do get more traffic than TAB. TAB doesn't get any US flights as far as I know. And of course we're not getting more traffic compared to Cuba and the DR. That is comparing apples with pears. No island gets more tourist variety than Cuba and DR. Again, I'm only looking at it from a being part of the Netherlands Kingdom point of view. We're not fully integrated like France is but we're part of the Netherlands Kingdom.
I absolutely agree with you if disregard that and only look at the tourist numbers. In that case we are almost on the bottom of the list
A388