Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2021

A330Inter · Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:43 pm

trini81 wrote:
A330Inter wrote:
caribny wrote:

3S is filling gaps left by LI/BW. More ANU BGI, SLU BGI and better SXM BGI service.

Why would BW not jump on the occasion to deploy their ATRs there from BGI?

I think BW ATRs main purpose is cover the POS/TAB route. When that route is fully operational there would not be much slack to support all the routes you want. BW purchased two additional ATRs recently and those are what are used in its regional expansion. They may need more, which they cant afford, to do what you want.
Having all these options in the region would be good for regional transport instead of one major carrier dominating regional travel.
Just my two cents.....

Not too disagree with you with regards to having options. But this seems to come at a high cost to local authorities which don't seem to have the sufficient resources to afford it in the long term.
BW is already well established in that part of the Caribbean, they had about a year now to clearly evaluate the BGI and regional market, it shouldn't take more than 2 ATRs to offer a decent LI replacement?

I also see it as one of the few options for BW to survive, in my opinion, they need to grow their share of the overall South-Eastern Caribbean if they are to compete efficiently with north american carriers on the profitable routes...

fowlr29 · Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:36 pm

windian425 wrote:
3S has scheduled significant increases in flights from non-French islands. New nonstops between ANU & BGI along with SLU and DOM to/from BGI. Some BGI - ANU flights continue to SXM. All now loaded in the GDS for September and October.

The ANU portions would, as far as I am aware, have to be a Winair flight. 3S does not have rights out of ANU. I'll check back in a couple weeks, maybe GDS is still being updated by both companies.

baje427 · Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:40 pm

A330Inter wrote:
trini81 wrote:
A330Inter wrote:

Why would BW not jump on the occasion to deploy their ATRs there from BGI?

I think BW ATRs main purpose is cover the POS/TAB route. When that route is fully operational there would not be much slack to support all the routes you want. BW purchased two additional ATRs recently and those are what are used in its regional expansion. They may need more, which they cant afford, to do what you want.
Having all these options in the region would be good for regional transport instead of one major carrier dominating regional travel.
Just my two cents.....

Not too disagree with you with regards to having options. But this seems to come at a high cost to local authorities which don't seem to have the sufficient resources to afford it in the long term.
BW is already well established in that part of the Caribbean, they had about a year now to clearly evaluate the BGI and regional market, it shouldn't take more than 2 ATRs to offer a decent LI replacement?

I also see it as one of the few options for BW to survive, in my opinion, they need to grow their share of the overall South-Eastern Caribbean if they are to compete efficiently with north american carriers on the profitable routes...

With POS reopened there is little incentive for BW to expand. In addition, expansion makes very little sense at this time with travel numbers being weak and the Delta variant spreading.

Brickell305 · Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:55 pm

A330Inter wrote:
trini81 wrote:
A330Inter wrote:

Why would BW not jump on the occasion to deploy their ATRs there from BGI?

I think BW ATRs main purpose is cover the POS/TAB route. When that route is fully operational there would not be much slack to support all the routes you want. BW purchased two additional ATRs recently and those are what are used in its regional expansion. They may need more, which they cant afford, to do what you want.
Having all these options in the region would be good for regional transport instead of one major carrier dominating regional travel.
Just my two cents.....

Not too disagree with you with regards to having options. But this seems to come at a high cost to local authorities which don't seem to have the sufficient resources to afford it in the long term.
BW is already well established in that part of the Caribbean, they had about a year now to clearly evaluate the BGI and regional market, it shouldn't take more than 2 ATRs to offer a decent LI replacement?

I also see it as one of the few options for BW to survive, in my opinion, they need to grow their share of the overall South-Eastern Caribbean if they are to compete efficiently with north american carriers on the profitable routes...

The problem is the time they have had to evaluate the BGI regional market is when traffic has been essentially non-existent. The post-pandemic BGI-E. Caribbean market is simply not worth it to BW at this point, especially with POS now reopening. Possibly, once traffic levels normalize, they may attempt to expand from BGI. 3S can afford to do this as its main regional market (the French Antilles) has largely recovered for travel between those islands and they can theoretically use that as a cushion for expansion. BW does not currently have that luxury. The biggest loser in all of this is of course LI as it is now a shell of its former self serving the region as best as it can. I don't see how LI remains once more carriers enter and take the market share it once had. The gov't of ANU will not be able to underwrite losses for very long. My expectation is that their tolerance to do so will last until the next election in ANU.

caribny · Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:22 pm

trini81 wrote:
A330Inter wrote:
caribny wrote:

3S is filling gaps left by LI/BW. More ANU BGI, SLU BGI and better SXM BGI service.

Why would BW not jump on the occasion to deploy their ATRs there from BGI?

I think BW ATRs main purpose is cover the POS/TAB route. When that route is fully operational there would not be much slack to support all the routes you want. BW purchased two additional ATRs recently and those are what are used in its regional expansion. They may need more, which they cant afford, to do what you want.
Having all these options in the region would be good for regional transport instead of one major carrier dominating regional travel.
Just my two cents.....

BW should focus on routes out of POS and GEO/OGL. Let 3S. JY and LI fight over the BGI/OECS routes as well as to SXM and the French Antilles. Yes POS TAB is politically critical and flights out of POS are an area that BW will defend. I doubt at this point that any of the others will jump in given that this is a much diminished market. Maybe 3S plans to fire the bullet which might put LI out of its misery.

caribny · Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:27 pm

A330Inter wrote:
trini81 wrote:
A330Inter wrote:

Why would BW not jump on the occasion to deploy their ATRs there from BGI?

I think BW ATRs main purpose is cover the POS/TAB route. When that route is fully operational there would not be much slack to support all the routes you want. BW purchased two additional ATRs recently and those are what are used in its regional expansion. They may need more, which they cant afford, to do what you want.
Having all these options in the region would be good for regional transport instead of one major carrier dominating regional travel.
Just my two cents.....

Not too disagree with you with regards to having options. But this seems to come at a high cost to local authorities which don't seem to have the sufficient resources to afford it in the long term.
BW is already well established in that part of the Caribbean, they had about a year now to clearly evaluate the BGI and regional market, it shouldn't take more than 2 ATRs to offer a decent LI replacement?

I also see it as one of the few options for BW to survive, in my opinion, they need to grow their share of the overall South-Eastern Caribbean if they are to compete efficiently with north american carriers on the profitable routes...

If you know TT politics you would know that BW, as a state owned carrier which gets massive state support, has to "repay" this with service on its money losing POS/TAB route. TAB has 2 critical seats in the TT parliament and there have been at least 2, and maybe more where those 2 seats determined which party won the election. Maybe BW can negotiate a deal where it gets subsidies based not just on passengers carried, but also partially on seats provided, so the empty "midnight" flights arent a total loss.

embraer175e2 · Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:40 pm

trini81 wrote:
A330Inter wrote:
caribny wrote:

3S is filling gaps left by LI/BW. More ANU BGI, SLU BGI and better SXM BGI service.

Why would BW not jump on the occasion to deploy their ATRs there from BGI?

I think BW ATRs main purpose is cover the POS/TAB route. When that route is fully operational there would not be much slack to support all the routes you want. BW purchased two additional ATRs recently and those are what are used in its regional expansion. They may need more, which they cant afford, to do what you want.
Having all these options in the region would be good for regional transport instead of one major carrier dominating regional travel.
Just my two cents.....

How many routes does BW fly with its ATR's?

embraer175e2 · Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:53 pm

trini81 wrote:
A330Inter wrote:
caribny wrote:

3S is filling gaps left by LI/BW. More ANU BGI, SLU BGI and better SXM BGI service.

Why would BW not jump on the occasion to deploy their ATRs there from BGI?

I think BW ATRs main purpose is cover the POS/TAB route. When that route is fully operational there would not be much slack to support all the routes you want. BW purchased two additional ATRs recently and those are what are used in its regional expansion. They may need more, which they cant afford, to do what you want.
Having all these options in the region would be good for regional transport instead of one major carrier dominating regional travel.
Just my two cents.....

How many routes does BW fly with its ATR's?

Brickell305 · Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:30 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
trini81 wrote:
A330Inter wrote:

Why would BW not jump on the occasion to deploy their ATRs there from BGI?

I think BW ATRs main purpose is cover the POS/TAB route. When that route is fully operational there would not be much slack to support all the routes you want. BW purchased two additional ATRs recently and those are what are used in its regional expansion. They may need more, which they cant afford, to do what you want.
Having all these options in the region would be good for regional transport instead of one major carrier dominating regional travel.
Just my two cents.....

How many routes does BW fly with its ATR's?

Currently:

POS-ANU (planned)
POS-DOM
POS-GND
POS-OGL
POS-SLU
POS-SVD
POS-TAB

BGI-DOM
BGI-GND
BGI-OGL
BGI-SVD

embraer175e2 · Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:58 pm

HAITI IN DETAIL

Air
Domestic flights operate from Aérogare Guy Malary, near the international terminal. The two airlines that operate there are Sunrise Airways and Mission Aviation Fellowship.

Haiti’s small size means that flights are short (no flight is longer than 40 minutes), saving hours on bad roads. The planes are small, typically carrying 16 passengers or fewer. One-way tickets usually cost around US$100.

embraer175e2 · Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:03 pm

Mission Aviation Fellowship has had a program in Haiti since 1986 with the goal of furthering God's Kingdom by supporting the missions and development community with safe and reliable air transportation. MAF Haiti flies four planes in Haiti and services 15 airstrips around Haiti. The MAF team is made up of five missionary families and 14 staff members. MAF routinely responds to medical evacuation needs as well as flying charters for work teams. Please contact us if there is anything that we can assist you or your organization with. We look forward to flying with you in the future.

https://mafhaiti.org/

fowlr29 · Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:13 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
trini81 wrote:

I think BW ATRs main purpose is cover the POS/TAB route. When that route is fully operational there would not be much slack to support all the routes you want. BW purchased two additional ATRs recently and those are what are used in its regional expansion. They may need more, which they cant afford, to do what you want.
Having all these options in the region would be good for regional transport instead of one major carrier dominating regional travel.
Just my two cents.....

How many routes does BW fly with its ATR's?

Currently:

POS-ANU (planned)
POS-DOM
POS-GND
POS-OGL
POS-SLU
POS-SVD
POS-TAB

BGI-DOM
BGI-GND
BGI-OGL
BGI-SVD

BW started POS - ANU started already.

Following up from earlier with 3S and ANU ops.

Routing is as follows:

3S 160 PTP - ANU - BGI - DOM - FDF operates on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays.
3S 105 FDF - DOM - BGI - ANU - SXM operates on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays.
3S 158 SXM - ANU - PTP operates on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays.

3S 103/104 PTP - DOM - SXM - SJU return has also been readded. Was thought previously a couple slides up that this had been removed. It's back now.

Flights that start or end in SXM are done in conjunction with WM. WM is also selling the seats. The 3S105 continues onwards to CUR as WM805, while the 3S158 originates in AUA on that day. The aircraft operates AUA - CUR - SXM - ANU - PTP.

Interesting adds. Flights are on sale from the 1st of November.

Brickell305 · Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:18 pm

fowlr29 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
How many routes does BW fly with its ATR's?

Currently:

POS-ANU (planned)
POS-DOM
POS-GND
POS-OGL
POS-SLU
POS-SVD
POS-TAB

BGI-DOM
BGI-GND
BGI-OGL
BGI-SVD

BW started POS - ANU started already.

Following up from earlier with 3S and ANU ops.

Routing is as follows:

3S 160 PTP - ANU - BGI - DOM - FDF operates on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays.
3S 105 FDF - DOM - BGI - ANU - SXM operates on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays.
3S 158 SXM - ANU - PTP operates on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays.

3S 103/104 PTP - DOM - SXM - SJU return has also been readded. Was thought previously a couple slides up that this had been removed. It's back now.

Flights that start or end in SXM are done in conjunction with WM. WM is also selling the seats. The 3S105 continues onwards to CUR as WM805, while the 3S158 originates in AUA on that day. The aircraft operates AUA - CUR - SXM - ANU - PTP.

Interesting adds. Flights are on sale from the 1st of November.

Thanks. I also realize I missed an obvious one: POS-BGI.

Brickell305 · Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:19 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
trini81 wrote:

I think BW ATRs main purpose is cover the POS/TAB route. When that route is fully operational there would not be much slack to support all the routes you want. BW purchased two additional ATRs recently and those are what are used in its regional expansion. They may need more, which they cant afford, to do what you want.
Having all these options in the region would be good for regional transport instead of one major carrier dominating regional travel.
Just my two cents.....

How many routes does BW fly with its ATR's?

Currently:

POS-ANU (planned)
POS-DOM
POS-GND
POS-OGL
POS-SLU
POS-SVD
POS-TAB

BGI-DOM
BGI-GND
BGI-OGL
BGI-SVD

Just correcting the above:

POS-ANU
POS-BGI
POS-DOM
POS-GND
POS-OGL
POS-SLU
POS-SVD
POS-TAB

BGI-DOM
BGI-GND
BGI-OGL
BGI-SVD

Caymanair · Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:04 am

embraer175e2 wrote:
Caimen airways , another caribbean airlines operating 5 of the boeing 737max8.
Who knows how the have been financially for the last years???
Caimen islands has a population of about 80000 inhabitants. I am curious about how the airline is going.....
Anybody with operational news about them?

They've done fairly well, all things considered, over the past few years. Profitable, but barely. They operate 3 MAX8s and 2 737-300s, 2 Saab 340s (soon to be 3), and 2 Twin Otters. Our borders have been closed since March 2020 and the airport terminal is the major vaccination centre, so the only international flights permitted have been Cayman Airways ~3 times per week and a twice monthly airbridge service to LHR on BA. Despite this, Cayman Airways didn't need to ask for cash last year and have reportedly told government that they will only need a $7 million injection this year.

Our population is a touch over 70,000 right now.

The economy has basically been booming since lockdown, with huge amounts of money being spent by government, private firms, and individuals. Once regular flights resume I have no doubt they'll be packed... there is a tonne of disposable income and a population with an incredibly high propensity to travel and stupid amounts of unused vacation days!

embraer175e2 · Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:37 pm

Caymanair wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
Caimen airways , another caribbean airlines operating 5 of the boeing 737max8.
Who knows how the have been financially for the last years???
Caimen islands has a population of about 80000 inhabitants. I am curious about how the airline is going.....
Anybody with operational news about them?

They've done fairly well, all things considered, over the past few years. Profitable, but barely. They operate 3 MAX8s and 2 737-300s, 2 Saab 340s (soon to be 3), and 2 Twin Otters. Our borders have been closed since March 2020 and the airport terminal is the major vaccination centre, so the only international flights permitted have been Cayman Airways ~3 times per week and a twice monthly airbridge service to LHR on BA. Despite this, Cayman Airways didn't need to ask for cash last year and have reportedly told government that they will only need a $7 million injection this year.

Our population is a touch over 70,000 right now.

The economy has basically been booming since lockdown, with huge amounts of money being spent by government, private firms, and individuals. Once regular flights resume I have no doubt they'll be packed... there is a tonne of disposable income and a population with an incredibly high propensity to travel and stupid amounts of unused vacation days!

Gdp per capita 85,975.02 USD
This helps in buying tickets and filling planes.

2travel2know2 · Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:05 pm

CM announced in its Instagram account that PTY-POS flights re-start tomorrow September 4.
Not sure if the photos used for T&T were actually from Trinidad and/or Tobago.
PTY-SFO was also announced together with PTY-POS.

continental004 · Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:27 am

embraer175e2 wrote:
Caymanair wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
Caimen airways , another caribbean airlines operating 5 of the boeing 737max8.
Who knows how the have been financially for the last years???
Caimen islands has a population of about 80000 inhabitants. I am curious about how the airline is going.....
Anybody with operational news about them?

They've done fairly well, all things considered, over the past few years. Profitable, but barely. They operate 3 MAX8s and 2 737-300s, 2 Saab 340s (soon to be 3), and 2 Twin Otters. Our borders have been closed since March 2020 and the airport terminal is the major vaccination centre, so the only international flights permitted have been Cayman Airways ~3 times per week and a twice monthly airbridge service to LHR on BA. Despite this, Cayman Airways didn't need to ask for cash last year and have reportedly told government that they will only need a $7 million injection this year.

Our population is a touch over 70,000 right now.

The economy has basically been booming since lockdown, with huge amounts of money being spent by government, private firms, and individuals. Once regular flights resume I have no doubt they'll be packed... there is a tonne of disposable income and a population with an incredibly high propensity to travel and stupid amounts of unused vacation days!

Gdp per capita 85,975.02 USD
This helps in buying tickets and filling planes.

That is also why they've kept their borders closed this whole time. The Caymans don't need tourism money.

trini81 · Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:36 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
CM announced in its Instagram account that PTY-POS flights re-start tomorrow September 4.
Not sure if the photos used for T&T were actually from Trinidad and/or Tobago.
PTY-SFO was also announced together with PTY-POS.

The pictures are of both islands….
CM arrives in POS @ 118 am and departs 414am for PTY.
I believe this is first none CAL scheduled pax service to POS since its post pandemic reopening

2travel2know2 · Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:43 am

trini81 wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
CM announced in its Instagram account that PTY-POS flights re-start tomorrow September 4.
Not sure if the photos used for T&T were actually from Trinidad and/or Tobago.
PTY-SFO was also announced together with PTY-POS.

The pictures are of both islands….

What a relief, CM ad department was notorious to use photos from the wrong places named after their destinations.

CM arrives in POS @ 118 am and departs 414am for PTY.

On the positive side, those times give passengers lots of connections all day long

I believe this is first none CAL scheduled pax service to POS since its post pandemic reopening

Seems it's.
Time will tall if CM might fly POS almost double daily as it was pre-Covid, now with B737-800

embraer175e2 · Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:13 pm

continental004 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
Caymanair wrote:

They've done fairly well, all things considered, over the past few years. Profitable, but barely. They operate 3 MAX8s and 2 737-300s, 2 Saab 340s (soon to be 3), and 2 Twin Otters. Our borders have been closed since March 2020 and the airport terminal is the major vaccination centre, so the only international flights permitted have been Cayman Airways ~3 times per week and a twice monthly airbridge service to LHR on BA. Despite this, Cayman Airways didn't need to ask for cash last year and have reportedly told government that they will only need a $7 million injection this year.

Our population is a touch over 70,000 right now.

The economy has basically been booming since lockdown, with huge amounts of money being spent by government, private firms, and individuals. Once regular flights resume I have no doubt they'll be packed... there is a tonne of disposable income and a population with an incredibly high propensity to travel and stupid amounts of unused vacation days!

Gdp per capita 85,975.02 USD
This helps in buying tickets and filling planes.

That is also why they've kept their borders closed this whole time. The Caymans don't need tourism money.

How come is the GDP so high in Caimen Islands?

embraer175e2 · Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:29 pm

CAL promises more connections between New York and the Caribbean

St Vincent New York

gunnerman · Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:32 pm

BW has reinstated its Wednesday flights from JFK to SVD and onto POS from 20 October.

embraer175e2 · Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:51 pm

gunnerman wrote:
BW has reinstated its Wednesday flights from JFK to SVD and onto POS from 20 October.

https://newsday.co.tt/2021/09/02/caribb ... p-flights/

baje427 · Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:44 am

embraer175e2 wrote:
continental004 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:

Gdp per capita 85,975.02 USD
This helps in buying tickets and filling planes.

That is also why they've kept their borders closed this whole time. The Caymans don't need tourism money.

How come is the GDP so high in Caimen Islands?

It's Cayman islands, on the issue of GDP several offshore financial services are offered in the Cayman islands.

embraer175e2 · Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:59 pm

How can Air Caraibes survive with 5 heavy jets on an island with only about 300000 inhabitants. This in contrary to Caribbean Airways and Air Jamaica with millions of inhabitants and who didnt survive on the mid atlantic market.
Tourism must be very Booming out of France??

gunnerman · Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:28 pm

TX is not immune from the effects of the pandemic, bear in mind that its ORY hub was closed for three months in 2020 whilst the French government banned a lot of travel inside and outside of continental France. TX is not happy that other airlines such as AF have had state aid and is planning to ask for such aid soon.

embraer175e2 · Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:07 pm

gunnerman wrote:
TX is not immune from the effects of the pandemic, bear in mind that its ORY hub was closed for three months in 2020 whilst the French government banned a lot of travel inside and outside of continental France. TX is not happy that other airlines such as AF have had state aid and is planning to ask for such aid soon.

Ok but i mean trougout the years....

Brickell305 · Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:48 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
How can Air Caraibes survive with 5 heavy jets on an island with only about 300000 inhabitants. This in contrary to Caribbean Airways and Air Jamaica with millions of inhabitants and who didnt survive on the mid atlantic market.
Tourism must be very Booming out of France??

Keep in mind that PTP and FDF are part of France. The flights to and from Metropolitan France are domestic. As such, there is free movement of people from PTP/FDF to/from Metropolitan France and vice versa. There is lots of tourism yes (both because it’s a domestic flight from France and because there are only so many French speaking islands in the Caribbean) but also lots of VFR, business, government traffic, university traffic, etc.

No English speaking Caribbean island can compare. None of the largest islands are still territories of the UK. Even the ones that are, operate in an arms length manner from the UK. It’s nothing at all like how FDF and PTP operate with Metropolitan France. UK tourists also have several English speaking islands to choose from, all of which are a long flight from the UK so no real geographic advantage for any individual island. On top of that, even many non-English speaking islands cater to English speaking tourists because of American tourists so there’s nothing really stopping a Brit from visiting Punta Cana for example. And to add even more, recent immigration from the English speaking Caribbean is much more heavily geared towards the US and Canada as they are both closer geographically and English speaking. As such, VFR to/from the UK gets smaller with each passing generation. For people from FDF/PTP, language is a barrier and where it’s not (Quebec in Canada), immigration requirements are a deterrent. Those don’t exist for Metropolitan France so they continue to migrate to/from there in large numbers.

caribny · Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:45 am

Brickell305 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
How can Air Caraibes survive with 5 heavy jets on an island with only about 300000 inhabitants. This in contrary to Caribbean Airways and Air Jamaica with millions of inhabitants and who didnt survive on the mid atlantic market.
Tourism must be very Booming out of France??

Keep in mind that PTP and FDF are part of France. The flights to and from Metropolitan France are domestic. As such, there is free movement of people from PTP/FDF to/from Metropolitan France and vice versa. There is lots of tourism yes (both because it’s a domestic flight from France and because there are only so many French speaking islands in the Caribbean) but also lots of VFR, business, government traffic, university traffic, etc.

No English speaking Caribbean island can compare. None of the largest islands are still territories of the UK. Even the ones that are, operate in an arms length manner from the UK. It’s nothing at all like how FDF and PTP operate with Metropolitan France. UK tourists also have several English speaking islands to choose from, all of which are a long flight from the UK so no real geographic advantage for any individual island. On top of that, even many non-English speaking islands cater to English speaking tourists because of American tourists so there’s nothing really stopping a Brit from visiting Punta Cana for example. And to add even more, recent immigration from the English speaking Caribbean is much more heavily geared towards the US and Canada as they are both closer geographically and English speaking. As such, VFR to/from the UK gets smaller with each passing generation. For people from FDF/PTP, language is a barrier and where it’s not (Quebec in Canada), immigration requirements are a deterrent. Those don’t exist for Metropolitan France so they continue to migrate to/from there in large numbers.

In addition TX is owned by French corporate interests so cannot be viewed as a Caribbean carrier. It is more integrated into mainland France than either BW or KX is into the US travel markets, so they have more access to French leisure travelers. TX also flies to the DR and Cuba from France, this I am sure being almost 100% leisure. TX also has more access to capital, so is better able to compete against the majors.

And yes I must re-emphasize the point that there are a broader range of destinations which are either English speaking, or capable of catering to English speaking tourists. For the French its PTP, FDF and maybe PUJ and Cuba. A point that must also be made is that because PTP/FDF are integral parts of France there will be tremendous gov't travel in both directions.

No way that BW can cater to the needs of travel entities in the USA by offering the breadth of service that B6 and AA can. The Paris metro area accounts for a higher % of France Caribbean travel than does the NY area account for US Caribbean travel. So while TX also has limitations of feed from regional parts of France through PAR it is less disadvantaged in this than are BW/KX which are limited to JFK/MIA (with KX also offering a few other routes, and BW also into MCO). So AF is a less formidable competitor for TX than are AA/B6 for BW/KX.

I think that a comparison with 3S and other Caribbean carriers might be more valid as it is Caribbean based, owned by French Caribbean interests and so has similar resource limitations as do Caribbean carriers. Notable that they confine their routes mainly within the French Caribbean with some service to SDQ. SJU and neighboring islands in the English speaking Eastern Caribbean, a market now more open due to LIs problems.

embraer175e2 · Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:15 pm

Liat workers annoyed at not being hired by inter caribbean.

https://antiguanewsroom.com/liat-displa ... l-airline/

DaveMetroD · Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:23 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
Liat workers annoyed at not being hired by inter caribbean.

https://antiguanewsroom.com/liat-displa ... l-airline/

Different aircraft.

Disgruntled pilots.
LIAT had more problems than just the management.

Doesn't make me happy they are out of a job but under the circumstances, I wouldn't hire them.

embraer175e2 · Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:52 pm

DaveMetroD wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
Liat workers annoyed at not being hired by inter caribbean.

https://antiguanewsroom.com/liat-displa ... l-airline/

Different aircraft.

Disgruntled pilots.
LIAT had more problems than just the management.

Doesn't make me happy they are out of a job but under the circumstances, I wouldn't hire them.

True but intercaribbean is acquiring ATR aircraft.

gunnerman · Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:56 pm

Yes, I think the most interesting part of the article was the acquisition of a number of ATRs as little airlines typically operate just one aircraft type.

caribbean484 · Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:01 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
BW has reinstated its Wednesday flights from JFK to SVD and onto POS from 20 October.

https://newsday.co.tt/2021/09/02/caribb ... p-flights/

I see more updates from BW scheduled into the fall, some not published/bookable yet so interesting to see if just proposed

YYZ:
POS moves from 2w to 3w from November
GEO Remains 2w nonstop
KIN 2w seems to be resuming in December and bookable

JFK:
POS, GEO and KIN going daily in November
BGI and SVD are 1w permanently
*TAB 1w. It seems they want to bring this back mid November
MBJ Returns in December seasonal 2w

MIA
POS 7w, they converted the Wed GEO nonstop back into POS stop from end of Sep

MCO
Still 2w looks like the change the Friday flight to Thursday.
*December they are proposing 5w

FLL
No service has been scheduled from this airport from POS or KIN.

A388 · Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:36 pm

caribbean484 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
BW has reinstated its Wednesday flights from JFK to SVD and onto POS from 20 October.

https://newsday.co.tt/2021/09/02/caribb ... p-flights/

I see more updates from BW scheduled into the fall, some not published/bookable yet so interesting to see if just proposed

When is Curacao planned and will we see the MAX too every now and than? Or will it be downgraded to the ATR?

A388

A388 · Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:40 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
How can Air Caraibes survive with 5 heavy jets on an island with only about 300000 inhabitants. This in contrary to Caribbean Airways and Air Jamaica with millions of inhabitants and who didnt survive on the mid atlantic market.
Tourism must be very Booming out of France??

Keep in mind that PTP and FDF are part of France. The flights to and from Metropolitan France are domestic. As such, there is free movement of people from PTP/FDF to/from Metropolitan France and vice versa. There is lots of tourism yes (both because it’s a domestic flight from France and because there are only so many French speaking islands in the Caribbean) but also lots of VFR, business, government traffic, university traffic, etc.

No English speaking Caribbean island can compare. None of the largest islands are still territories of the UK. Even the ones that are, operate in an arms length manner from the UK. It’s nothing at all like how FDF and PTP operate with Metropolitan France. UK tourists also have several English speaking islands to choose from, all of which are a long flight from the UK so no real geographic advantage for any individual island. On top of that, even many non-English speaking islands cater to English speaking tourists because of American tourists so there’s nothing really stopping a Brit from visiting Punta Cana for example. And to add even more, recent immigration from the English speaking Caribbean is much more heavily geared towards the US and Canada as they are both closer geographically and English speaking. As such, VFR to/from the UK gets smaller with each passing generation. For people from FDF/PTP, language is a barrier and where it’s not (Quebec in Canada), immigration requirements are a deterrent. Those don’t exist for Metropolitan France so they continue to migrate to/from there in large numbers.

All valid points and let's also not forget that Air Caraibes is not even a Caribbean airline as some think. It's a french based and owned airline just like how Air France is from France. So, one can't compare them to Caribbean Airlines or LIAT and the likes.

A388

caribbean484 · Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:47 pm

A388 wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:

https://newsday.co.tt/2021/09/02/caribb ... p-flights/

I see more updates from BW scheduled into the fall, some not published/bookable yet so interesting to see if just proposed

When is Curacao planned and will we see the MAX too every now and than? Or will it be downgraded to the ATR?

A388

Hi A388 sorry it was mentioned upthread, the POS-CUR route resumes Nov 8th with the 738 2w. I'm pretty sure the MAX will eventually be in CUR when they are in the company's compound.
HAV, SXM and PBM don't have a start dates yet due to border restrictions or heavy restriction on persons from POS.

Also they are proposing an 8w from from GEO-JFK for the Christmas season, not sure if that will actually be published
and moving POS-JFK to 10w for the same time.

caribbean484 · Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:32 pm

caribbean484 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
BW has reinstated its Wednesday flights from JFK to SVD and onto POS from 20 October.

https://newsday.co.tt/2021/09/02/caribb ... p-flights/

I see more updates from BW scheduled into the fall, some not published/bookable yet so interesting to see if just proposed

YYZ:
POS moves from 2w to 3w from November
GEO Remains 2w nonstop
KIN 2w seems to be resuming in December and bookable

JFK:
POS, GEO and KIN going daily in November
BGI and SVD are 1w permanently
*TAB 1w. It seems they want to bring this back mid November
MBJ Returns in December seasonal 2w

MIA
POS 7w, they converted the Wed GEO nonstop back into POS stop from end of Sep

MCO
Still 2w looks like the change the Friday flight to Thursday.
*December they are proposing 5w

FLL
No service has been scheduled from this airport from POS or KIN.

*Correction MCO at 2w in December saw some duplications in the system

embraer175e2 · Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:36 pm

A388 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
How can Air Caraibes survive with 5 heavy jets on an island with only about 300000 inhabitants. This in contrary to Caribbean Airways and Air Jamaica with millions of inhabitants and who didnt survive on the mid atlantic market.
Tourism must be very Booming out of France??

Keep in mind that PTP and FDF are part of France. The flights to and from Metropolitan France are domestic. As such, there is free movement of people from PTP/FDF to/from Metropolitan France and vice versa. There is lots of tourism yes (both because it’s a domestic flight from France and because there are only so many French speaking islands in the Caribbean) but also lots of VFR, business, government traffic, university traffic, etc.

No English speaking Caribbean island can compare. None of the largest islands are still territories of the UK. Even the ones that are, operate in an arms length manner from the UK. It’s nothing at all like how FDF and PTP operate with Metropolitan France. UK tourists also have several English speaking islands to choose from, all of which are a long flight from the UK so no real geographic advantage for any individual island. On top of that, even many non-English speaking islands cater to English speaking tourists because of American tourists so there’s nothing really stopping a Brit from visiting Punta Cana for example. And to add even more, recent immigration from the English speaking Caribbean is much more heavily geared towards the US and Canada as they are both closer geographically and English speaking. As such, VFR to/from the UK gets smaller with each passing generation. For people from FDF/PTP, language is a barrier and where it’s not (Quebec in Canada), immigration requirements are a deterrent. Those don’t exist for Metropolitan France so they continue to migrate to/from there in large numbers.

All valid points and let's also not forget that Air Caraibes is not even a Caribbean airline as some think. It's a french based and owned airline just like how Air France is from France. So, one can't compare them to Caribbean Airlines or LIAT and the likes.

A388

Still they need to fill planes. So passengers for a total of 5 heavy jets have to come from somewhere.

A388 · Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:58 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
A388 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
Keep in mind that PTP and FDF are part of France. The flights to and from Metropolitan France are domestic. As such, there is free movement of people from PTP/FDF to/from Metropolitan France and vice versa. There is lots of tourism yes (both because it’s a domestic flight from France and because there are only so many French speaking islands in the Caribbean) but also lots of VFR, business, government traffic, university traffic, etc.

No English speaking Caribbean island can compare. None of the largest islands are still territories of the UK. Even the ones that are, operate in an arms length manner from the UK. It’s nothing at all like how FDF and PTP operate with Metropolitan France. UK tourists also have several English speaking islands to choose from, all of which are a long flight from the UK so no real geographic advantage for any individual island. On top of that, even many non-English speaking islands cater to English speaking tourists because of American tourists so there’s nothing really stopping a Brit from visiting Punta Cana for example. And to add even more, recent immigration from the English speaking Caribbean is much more heavily geared towards the US and Canada as they are both closer geographically and English speaking. As such, VFR to/from the UK gets smaller with each passing generation. For people from FDF/PTP, language is a barrier and where it’s not (Quebec in Canada), immigration requirements are a deterrent. Those don’t exist for Metropolitan France so they continue to migrate to/from there in large numbers.

All valid points and let's also not forget that Air Caraibes is not even a Caribbean airline as some think. It's a french based and owned airline just like how Air France is from France. So, one can't compare them to Caribbean Airlines or LIAT and the likes.

A388

Still they need to fill planes. So passengers for a total of 5 heavy jets have to come from somewhere.

Have you read the post of Brickell305? That explains everything!!!!

A388

A388 · Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:18 pm

caribbean484 wrote:
Hi A388 sorry it was mentioned upthread, the POS-CUR route resumes Nov 8th with the 738 2w.

Thanks caribbean484, I'm already waiting on them

A388

gunnerman · Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:23 pm

As I said TX plans to apply for state aid. Furthermore TX is not grounded and is operating flights from its ORY base to PTP (using the 359), FDF (359), CAY (359), RUN (359) and SXM from 26 October (332).

embraer175e2 · Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:58 pm

A388 wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:
Hi A388 sorry it was mentioned upthread, the POS-CUR route resumes Nov 8th with the 738 2w.

Thanks caribbean484, I'm already waiting on them

A388

A388,

You know why corendon airlines permanently left the curacao routes it used to fly?

embraer175e2 · Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:09 pm

How is Air France doing and what routes do they fly out of Martinique and Guadeloupe with the AirbusA320?

embraer175e2 · Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:18 am

embraer175e2 wrote:
How is Air France doing and what routes do they fly out of Martinique and Guadeloupe with the AirbusA320?

I see they opened Montrael and New York flights:

https://paxex.aero/air-france-guadeloup ... york-city/

caribny · Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:04 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
How is Air France doing and what routes do they fly out of Martinique and Guadeloupe with the AirbusA320?

I see they opened Montrael and New York flights:

https://paxex.aero/air-france-guadeloup ... york-city/

They also do MIA, PAP, and CAY, subject to Covid limitations.

baje427 · Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:25 pm

Any word on how BW's BGI-JFK route is doing?

caribny · Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:56 am

baje427 wrote:
Any word on how BW's BGI-JFK route is doing?

Spoke to a Bajan who splits her time between the two points and she doesnt even think of them. Habits are hard to break and she has been using B6 for years, and not unhappy with them. While I understand BWs constraints I also suspect that a once weekly flight on a Thursday isnt exactly a hit when B6 offers service in the weekend.

But maybe they are doing well. A mere 150 seats per week arent hard to fill and maybe there are enough people who don't like B6. BW I suspect has a better record of punctuality than they do and some might like their Caribbean ambience. What is important is that they havent withdrawn the service even as having just 2 planes in KIN leaves them stretched at peak times (cutting its KIN JFK during peak periods to accommodate JFK MBJ).

It also depends on whether they have captured JFK DOM traffic as BW is now the easiest way to travel between those 2 points. JFK DOM passengers have long complained about the inconvenience of this and BW now offers a good solution. Its a small market but if most travelling between these two points do so on just one flight it might well offset not great numbers on the BGI itself.

embraer175e2 · Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:32 pm

caribny wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
How is Air France doing and what routes do they fly out of Martinique and Guadeloupe with the AirbusA320?

I see they opened Montrael and New York flights:

https://paxex.aero/air-france-guadeloup ... york-city/

They also do MIA, PAP, and CAY, subject to Covid limitations.

Are they earning money with these routes?

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