Per Crankyflier, B6 has dropped JFK-GEO for January/February. I find their service on the route to be extremely strange. Why start a new destination, serve it for two weeks and then drop it for two months after that?

https://crankyflier.com/2020/12/28/jetb ... etaliates/

I also just checked B6’s website and I do not see GEO listed as a destination in the drop down menu anymore. If this is permanently gone, it represents one of the strangest start and stops of a route I have ever seen.

caribbean484 wrote:

Happy New year to everyone and hopefully 2021 will be much better for Caribbean aviation.

Per Crankyflier, B6 has dropped JFK-GEO for January/February. I find their service on the route to be extremely strange. Why start a new destination, serve it for two weeks and then drop it for two months after that?

https://crankyflier.com/2020/12/28/jetb ... etaliates/

I also just checked B6’s website and I do not see GEO listed as a destination in the drop down menu anymore. If this is permanently gone, it represents one of the strangest start and stops of a route I have ever seen.

According to the OAG thread, it's dropped for Jan/Feb and suppose to restart in March for Easter when they expect demand to return. It is the strangest start but we are living in nonnormal times.

But to be fair Jan/Feb cuts are brutal with the airlines trying to be aggressive at first but the reality is demand is still not there.

Caymanair wrote:

2020 has been hard indeed for Caribbean airlines.

Bahamasair is not looking good, a loss in excess of $50 million USD is no small thing in a depressed economy such as the Bahamas:

https://thenassauguardian.com/bahamasair-set-to-lose-50-million/

KX of course suffers as Cayman's boarders remain effectively closed, and the MAX aircraft are still grounded. Although no information is yet in the public domain, I expect their losses will be well in excess of Bahamasair's. Fingers crossed that KX spreads its wings to BDA, PLS, and LHR from GCM and KIN in 2021! Wishful thinking...

It's probably best that POS remains closed for now and hopefully in the new year we can devise a way to reopen safely. I look forward to seeing howing the LIAT/ InterCaribbean/ Caribbean airlines regional conundrum works itself out in the Eastern Caribbean.

The only silver lining here is that, hopefully, Caribbean people and their governments finally realise how rapacious and poverty-inducing tourism dependent economies are. The antics of the Sandals Group in TCI has to demonstrate that these companies are not there out of friendship or even real partnership... even when the company is home grown. And the tourists who actually arrive for a bucket-and-spade holiday have little to no interest in or respect for our countries, our cultures, or our people. Worse when they arrive on a $99 Carnival cruise.

baje427 wrote:

Yip BGI now has a 9pm to 5am curfew after a super spreader event occurred. I doubt JY will be around in BGI after February.

caribny wrote:

baje427 wrote:

Yip BGI now has a 9pm to 5am curfew after a super spreader event occurred. I doubt JY will be around in BGI after February.

So after all of the hullaballoo it will be back to LI by the summer, when hopefully demand will have returned. For many BGI isnt O&D but its a transit point, and that is the challenge that JY will face. BW will likely reconfigure its operations in post Covid which might see more use of the ATR to more Eastern Caribbean islands, but clearly not as a LI replacement, and maintaining its POS and GEO/OGL focus.

With SVD getting better service (VS from next year) suddenly BGI starts to become less important.

LimaFoxTango wrote:

caribny wrote:

baje427 wrote:

Yip BGI now has a 9pm to 5am curfew after a super spreader event occurred. I doubt JY will be around in BGI after February.

So after all of the hullaballoo it will be back to LI by the summer, when hopefully demand will have returned. For many BGI isnt O&D but its a transit point, and that is the challenge that JY will face. BW will likely reconfigure its operations in post Covid which might see more use of the ATR to more Eastern Caribbean islands, but clearly not as a LI replacement, and maintaining its POS and GEO/OGL focus.

With SVD getting better service (VS from next year) suddenly BGI starts to become less important.

BGI was never important.

caribny wrote:

With SVD getting better service (VS from next year) suddenly BGI starts to become less important.

windian425 wrote:

JY just needs to hang on until Summer 2021 even if it requires further cuts to the BGI operation. This second wave of COVID-19 will soon pass once Bajans wake up and take this more seriously. Vaccines are due in BGI before the end of March.
If BGI was never important to LI then what was? Certainly not ANU, other than for employment. The bulk of LI revenues were earned in the southern Caribbean for more than a decade and a large portion of that was from BGI.

Brickell305 wrote:

Caymanair wrote:

2020 has been hard indeed for Caribbean airlines.

Bahamasair is not looking good, a loss in excess of $50 million USD is no small thing in a depressed economy such as the Bahamas:

https://thenassauguardian.com/bahamasair-set-to-lose-50-million/

KX of course suffers as Cayman's boarders remain effectively closed, and the MAX aircraft are still grounded. Although no information is yet in the public domain, I expect their losses will be well in excess of Bahamasair's. Fingers crossed that KX spreads its wings to BDA, PLS, and LHR from GCM and KIN in 2021! Wishful thinking...

It's probably best that POS remains closed for now and hopefully in the new year we can devise a way to reopen safely. I look forward to seeing howing the LIAT/ InterCaribbean/ Caribbean airlines regional conundrum works itself out in the Eastern Caribbean.

The only silver lining here is that, hopefully, Caribbean people and their governments finally realise how rapacious and poverty-inducing tourism dependent economies are. The antics of the Sandals Group in TCI has to demonstrate that these companies are not there out of friendship or even real partnership... even when the company is home grown. And the tourists who actually arrive for a bucket-and-spade holiday have little to no interest in or respect for our countries, our cultures, or our people. Worse when they arrive on a $99 Carnival cruise.

Bahamasair also had to deal with reduced demand due to the aftermath of Hurricane Dorian so that’s not entirely COVID related (although that was obviously the biggest factor).

I suspect that POS may remain closed or at the very least highly restricted to entry until Ash Wednesday to prevent people who had otherwise bought tickets before the cancellation of carnival was announced from entering regardless. I think there is legitimate fear that a reopening prior to that may lead to an underground entertainment scene running rampant.

KX is going to be in for a world of hurt. I’m actually surprised the Caymans held out for this long.

With BGI’s restrictions, I’m sure JY is regretting its decision to expand there. BW, at the very least had no other choice other than to remain idle in the E. Caribbean. LI will need the governments of the OECS to come together to keep it afloat. The govt of ANU cannot bear that burden alone. It does not have the wherewithal to keep pumping unlimited funds into LI. Even down to two planes, a limited schedule and reduced staff, LI is still very costly and there’s obviously no way the operation is making any money now.

windian425 wrote:

JY just needs to hang on until Summer 2021 even if it requires further cuts to the BGI operation. This second wave of COVID-19 will soon pass once Bajans wake up and take this more seriously. Vaccines are due in BGI before the end of March.
If BGI was never important to LI then what was? Certainly not ANU, other than for employment. The bulk of LI revenues were earned in the southern Caribbean for more than a decade and a large portion of that was from BGI.

Brickell305 wrote:

windian425 wrote:

JY just needs to hang on until Summer 2021 even if it requires further cuts to the BGI operation. This second wave of COVID-19 will soon pass once Bajans wake up and take this more seriously. Vaccines are due in BGI before the end of March.
If BGI was never important to LI then what was? Certainly not ANU, other than for employment. The bulk of LI revenues were earned in the southern Caribbean for more than a decade and a large portion of that was from BGI.

Not just JY but even after POS reopens, AFAIK, BW is still getting those ATRs and will fly them somewhere and it won’t be just from POS. BGI is likely to maintain service to the Windward Islands and Guyana. LI is down to two planes and doesn’t have the capacity to serve BGI as before unless some new benefactor comes in and by then it would likely be too late.

caribny wrote:

I suspect that LI isnt going to be setting up a BGI base in the near future. Their goal will be to ensure connectivity between the north and south parts of the Eastern Caribbean.

windian425 wrote:

Here is wishing for a much improved year for Caribbean Aviation in 2021.
When will POS finally open? BW's survival is dependent on this happening sooner rather than later. How long will the BW BGI base last in 2021?

Brickell305 wrote:

Not just JY but even after POS reopens, AFAIK, BW is still getting those ATRs and will fly them somewhere and it won’t be just from POS. BGI is likely to maintain service to the Windward Islands and Guyana. LI is down to two planes and doesn’t have the capacity to serve BGI as before unless some new benefactor comes in and by then it would likely be too late.

gunnerman wrote:

Preliminary statistics from the Jamaica Tourist Board (JTB) show that for the period December 22nd-28th, just over 21,000 passengers arrived on the island. The Sangster International Airport (MBJ) in Montego Bay welcomed 16,841 and 4,203 additional passengers arrived at the Norman Manley International Airport (KIN) in Kingston.

Between December 1st-28th, Jamaica welcomed over 98,000 visitors, an increase of more than 30,000 compared to the previous month. MBJ continues to account for the majority of arrivals. Between June 15th and December 28th, a total of 376,044 passengers arrived on the island.

DaveMetroD wrote:

caribny wrote:

I suspect that LI isnt going to be setting up a BGI base in the near future. Their goal will be to ensure connectivity between the north and south parts of the Eastern Caribbean.

Their first goal needs to be not losing money.
Their second goal needs to make sure all of the employees-not just management-understand they're in the business of providing service to paying customers.
With what they've gone through recently I know it's hard for the employees to be positive, but positive they must be.

I visited Dominica about 10 years ago. LIAT was never a contender to fly me there because of their poor reputation for providing service.
On the way out, I got to see the LIAT customers that should have been long gone waiting for their plane to arrive. Had anyone informed them of a Estimated Time of Arrival? No.
I've seen nothing to indicate that their customer service has improved any since then.

I hope to get back to Dominica before they bulldoze the north end of the island for the international airport.
At which point Dominica ends up being like every other commercialized island down that way.

caribbean484 wrote:

The last two ATRs will be coming when things stabilized and POS reopens. Regional travel is very profitable for CAL and their expansion will continue eventually.

0

gunnerman wrote:

I'm a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned the death of Butch Stewart today. He was part of the Air Jamaica Acquisition Group which acquired a 70% holding in the money-losing Air Jamaica in 1994 and promised to bring profitability to the airline. However Butch discovered that running an airline is very different to running a hotel chain, with problems such as when the US FAA downgraded Jamaica in 1995 from category 2 to category 1. A marketing deal with Delta was done in 1998, MBJ was developed into a hub and flights were operated to a wide number of north American, Caribbean and European destinations but the losses continued to such an extent that in 2004 saw Stewart and his team of investors signing over their ownership share back to the Government.

One thing that some planespotters would have liked was the replacement of the A310 with the A343 on the LHR route in 1999, one of the few 4-holers to be operated on Caribbean routes at the time.

gunnerman wrote:

I'm a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned the death of Butch Stewart today. He was part of the Air Jamaica Acquisition Group which acquired a 70% holding in the money-losing Air Jamaica in 1994 and promised to bring profitability to the airline. However Butch discovered that running an airline is very different to running a hotel chain, with problems such as when the US FAA downgraded Jamaica in 1995 from category 2 to category 1. A marketing deal with Delta was done in 1998, MBJ was developed into a hub and flights were operated to a wide number of north American, Caribbean and European destinations but the losses continued to such an extent that in 2004 saw Stewart and his team of investors signing over their ownership share back to the Government.

One thing that some planespotters would have liked was the replacement of the A310 with the A343 on the LHR route in 1999, one of the few 4-holers to be operated on Caribbean routes at the time.

caribny wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

I'm a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned the death of Butch Stewart today. He was part of the Air Jamaica Acquisition Group which acquired a 70% holding in the money-losing Air Jamaica in 1994 and promised to bring profitability to the airline. However Butch discovered that running an airline is very different to running a hotel chain, with problems such as when the US FAA downgraded Jamaica in 1995 from category 2 to category 1. A marketing deal with Delta was done in 1998, MBJ was developed into a hub and flights were operated to a wide number of north American, Caribbean and European destinations but the losses continued to such an extent that in 2004 saw Stewart and his team of investors signing over their ownership share back to the Government.

One thing that some planespotters would have liked was the replacement of the A310 with the A343 on the LHR route in 1999, one of the few 4-holers to be operated on Caribbean routes at the time.

The A343 was also used on the JFK KIN.

gunnerman wrote:

I'm a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned the death of Butch Stewart today. He was part of the Air Jamaica Acquisition Group which acquired a 70% holding in the money-losing Air Jamaica in 1994 and promised to bring profitability to the airline. However Butch discovered that running an airline is very different to running a hotel chain, with problems such as when the US FAA downgraded Jamaica in 1995 from category 2 to category 1. A marketing deal with Delta was done in 1998, MBJ was developed into a hub and flights were operated to a wide number of north American, Caribbean and European destinations but the losses continued to such an extent that in 2004 saw Stewart and his team of investors signing over their ownership share back to the Government.

One thing that some planespotters would have liked was the replacement of the A310 with the A343 on the LHR route in 1999, one of the few 4-holers to be operated on Caribbean routes at the time.

gunnerman wrote:

Yes, IIRC one 343 was started on the KIN-JFK route in 2002 whilst the other two were on the LHR route. I know of no other case where a 4-holer was subsequently used on scheduled flights between the Caribbean and north america.

Caymanair wrote:

The Butch Stewart era was the golden age of Air Jamaica. He was the man who developed the company that Jamaicans loved and mourn to this day. I only wish they had been more successful financially.

caribny wrote:

Caymanair wrote:

The Butch Stewart era was the golden age of Air Jamaica. He was the man who developed the company that Jamaicans loved and mourn to this day. I only wish they had been more successful financially.

To the contrary Butch Stewart ran a bunch of unprofitable routes just to provide access to his hotels. When he generated huge losses the Jamaican taxpayers had to fund this. The gov't guaranteed huge loans, poured money into the airline and allowed it to avoid paying travel taxes and landing fees. Eventually tiring of this the gov't took back the airline. JM never recovered from the financial mess and it had to be closed down eventually.

Butch mounted expensive promotional programs to give an illusion of success, but when the Jamaican taxpayers discovered that they had been had they turned on him.

caribbean484 wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

Yes, IIRC one 343 was started on the KIN-JFK route in 2002 whilst the other two were on the LHR route. I know of no other case where a 4-holer was subsequently used on scheduled flights between the Caribbean and north america.

Actually BWIA flew the A340 between YYZ-POS in the high season, but they could not fly the a/c to NYC as planned because the ICAO/FAA cat2 ratings for POS. By the time POS returned to Cat1, BWIA was in the mist of restructuring/closing down and the A340s returned to their leasors.

I liked the name JM gave to the A340 "The Atlantic Limousine"

caribny wrote:

Caymanair wrote:

The Butch Stewart era was the golden age of Air Jamaica. He was the man who developed the company that Jamaicans loved and mourn to this day. I only wish they had been more successful financially.

To the contrary Butch Stewart ran a bunch of unprofitable routes just to provide access to his hotels. When he generated huge losses the Jamaican taxpayers had to fund this. The gov't guaranteed huge loans, poured money into the airline and allowed it to avoid paying travel taxes and landing fees. Eventually tiring of this the gov't took back the airline. JM never recovered from the financial mess and it had to be closed down eventually.

Butch mounted expensive promotional programs to give an illusion of success, but when the Jamaican taxpayers discovered that they had been had they turned on him.

gunnerman wrote:

caribbean484 wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

Yes, IIRC one 343 was started on the KIN-JFK route in 2002 whilst the other two were on the LHR route. I know of no other case where a 4-holer was subsequently used on scheduled flights between the Caribbean and north america.

Actually BWIA flew the A340 between YYZ-POS in the high season, but they could not fly the a/c to NYC as planned because the ICAO/FAA cat2 ratings for POS. By the time POS returned to Cat1, BWIA was in the mist of restructuring/closing down and the A340s returned to their leasors.

I liked the name JM gave to the A340 "The Atlantic Limousine"

I have a memory like a sieve as I own a video of a 343 flight from POS to LHR!

Another thing to mention was that BA used to add a flight from LHR to BGI on Saturdays during the winter seasons using the 744. (This was in addition to Concorde from LHR on the same day, so planespotters on Saturdays could see the arrivals of the Concorde in the morning followed by the 772 from LGW and the 744 in the afternoon.) Eventually BA ended the 744 in March 2004, so all additional flights were operated by 772s from LGW.

http://www.departedflights.com/LHR96intro.html

AIR JAMAICA LIMITED
Aircraft Operated:
Airbus A310
Destinations Served:
Kingston (Jamaica)


BWIA INTERNATIONAL
Aircraft Operated:
Lockheed L-1011 TriStar 500
Destinations Served:
Barbados (Barbados), Saint Lucia (West Indies)

par13del wrote:

...or he was trying to use the airline the way EK is used in Dubai, to facilitate a tourism and business boom, except his was not focused on a single country, maybe if he had used JM only to service Jamaica and his hotels there he might have had more success. The idea of JM providing service to other countries in the Caribbean and asking them for subsidies as given to US airlines was doomed to failure, still not sure how he got subsides for his hotels, usually such is reserved for non-Caribbean foreigners.

Caymanair wrote:

caribny wrote:

Caymanair wrote:

The Butch Stewart era was the golden age of Air Jamaica. He was the man who developed the company that Jamaicans loved and mourn to this day. I only wish they had been more successful financially.

Despite that, who would want to keep JM (pre-AJAG) around? The JM we know and love, and have nostalgia for, is the one that actually resembled an world-class company.

Rajahdhani wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

caribbean484 wrote:

Actually BWIA flew the A340 between YYZ-POS in the high season, but they could not fly the a/c to NYC as planned because the ICAO/FAA cat2 ratings for POS. By the time POS returned to Cat1, BWIA was in the mist of restructuring/closing down and the A340s returned to their leasors.

I liked the name JM gave to the A340 "The Atlantic Limousine"

I have a memory like a sieve as I own a video of a 343 flight from POS to LHR!

Another thing to mention was that BA used to add a flight from LHR to BGI on Saturdays during the winter seasons using the 744. (This was in addition to Concorde from LHR on the same day, so planespotters on Saturdays could see the arrivals of the Concorde in the morning followed by the 772 from LGW and the 744 in the afternoon.) Eventually BA ended the 744 in March 2004, so all additional flights were operated by 772s from LGW.

Of note - is that the BWIA routings were (and I can be incorrect, so please feel free to let me know) - not operated as directly POS to LHR. The routing, if I have it correctly was POS-BGI-LHR-BGI-POS, though all operated on the same A340.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR2o92F1pl4

As a look back, I searched via the departedflight.com, and can note that as of a snapshot of 1996:

http://www.departedflights.com/LHR96intro.html

AIR JAMAICA LIMITED
Aircraft Operated:
Airbus A310
Destinations Served:
Kingston (Jamaica)


BWIA INTERNATIONAL
Aircraft Operated:
Lockheed L-1011 TriStar 500
Destinations Served:
Barbados (Barbados), Saint Lucia (West Indies)

The use of the A310 here is impressive!

Now UVF really comes to play in an interesting way as well because:

Per http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/bw/bw6210/bw6210i2.jpg

So, technically - with BWIA introducing the 707 (a 4 hole) and operating between not only POS, but other destinations on the way to MIA (and then JFK) means that it would have been the first 4 engined jet operating between the Caribbean and North America.

Backing to UVF, I know that it was used also as a stopover for the -LHR services (at least when the L1011s were in operation), with the routing looking like POS-BGI-LHR or POS-UVF-LHR. Again, please feel free to correct me if the routing was POS-LHR non-stop.

Rajahdhani wrote:

As a look back, I searched via the departedflight.com, and can note that as of a snapshot of 1996:

http://www.departedflights.com/LHR96intro.html

AIR JAMAICA LIMITED
Aircraft Operated:
Airbus A310
Destinations Served:
Kingston (Jamaica)


BWIA INTERNATIONAL
Aircraft Operated:
Lockheed L-1011 TriStar 500
Destinations Served:
Barbados (Barbados), Saint Lucia (West Indies)

The use of the A310 here is impressive!

Now UVF really comes to play in an interesting way as well because:

Per http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/bw/bw6210/bw6210i2.jpg

So, technically - with BWIA introducing the 707 (a 4 hole) and operating between not only POS, but other destinations on the way to MIA (and then JFK) means that it would have been the first 4 engined jet operating between the Caribbean and North America.

Backing to UVF, I know that it was used also as a stopover for the -LHR services (at least when the L1011s were in operation), with the routing looking like POS-BGI-LHR or POS-UVF-LHR. Again, please feel free to correct me if the routing was POS-LHR non-stop.

caribny wrote:

par13del wrote:

...or he was trying to use the airline the way EK is used in Dubai, to facilitate a tourism and business boom, except his was not focused on a single country, maybe if he had used JM only to service Jamaica and his hotels there he might have had more success. The idea of JM providing service to other countries in the Caribbean and asking them for subsidies as given to US airlines was doomed to failure, still not sure how he got subsides for his hotels, usually such is reserved for non-Caribbean foreigners.

The only Caribbean islands where JM had significant market share was SLU (where he had at least 2 hotels) and GND. His operation to ANU was a failure and his market share to BGI was small, and mainly VFR. The goal was to use Jamaican taxpayers to subsidize HIS hotels via JM. JMs cost structure was extremely high because Butch just didnt understand that running an airline isnt like running a hotel chain, plus he had carte blanche from the Jamaican gov't to do as he wished. In so doing he put Jamaica into financial stress which is why eventually the IMF insisted that the airline be shut down.

Interesting to note that Jamaican tourism arrivals soared since Butch exited JM. Also that as soon as Butch was forced to hand over JM back to the gov't he shifted his business to other airlines. JM had levels of debt in line with some of the smaller Caribbean islands! Over expansion and a plethora of low yield routes. PHX to MBJ? Why?

gunnerman wrote:

Rajahdhani wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

I have a memory like a sieve as I own a video of a 343 flight from POS to LHR!

Another thing to mention was that BA used to add a flight from LHR to BGI on Saturdays during the winter seasons using the 744. (This was in addition to Concorde from LHR on the same day, so planespotters on Saturdays could see the arrivals of the Concorde in the morning followed by the 772 from LGW and the 744 in the afternoon.) Eventually BA ended the 744 in March 2004, so all additional flights were operated by 772s from LGW.

Of note - is that the BWIA routings were (and I can be incorrect, so please feel free to let me know) - not operated as directly POS to LHR. The routing, if I have it correctly was POS-BGI-LHR-BGI-POS, though all operated on the same A340.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR2o92F1pl4

As a look back, I searched via the departedflight.com, and can note that as of a snapshot of 1996:

http://www.departedflights.com/LHR96intro.html

AIR JAMAICA LIMITED
Aircraft Operated:
Airbus A310
Destinations Served:
Kingston (Jamaica)


BWIA INTERNATIONAL
Aircraft Operated:
Lockheed L-1011 TriStar 500
Destinations Served:
Barbados (Barbados), Saint Lucia (West Indies)

The use of the A310 here is impressive!

Now UVF really comes to play in an interesting way as well because:

Per http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/bw/bw6210/bw6210i2.jpg

So, technically - with BWIA introducing the 707 (a 4 hole) and operating between not only POS, but other destinations on the way to MIA (and then JFK) means that it would have been the first 4 engined jet operating between the Caribbean and North America.

Backing to UVF, I know that it was used also as a stopover for the -LHR services (at least when the L1011s were in operation), with the routing looking like POS-BGI-LHR or POS-UVF-LHR. Again, please feel free to correct me if the routing was POS-LHR non-stop.

For several years BW operated a daily flight using the Tristar between POS and LHR with stops (in both directions) at BGI (on Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays), at ANU (on Wednesdays and Fridays) and at UVF (on Tuesdays and Sundays). The introduction of the A340 enabled nonstops to be operated and BW certainly did do some of them.

gunnerman wrote:

Rajahdhani wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

I have a memory like a sieve as I own a video of a 343 flight from POS to LHR!

Another thing to mention was that BA used to add a flight from LHR to BGI on Saturdays during the winter seasons using the 744. (This was in addition to Concorde from LHR on the same day, so planespotters on Saturdays could see the arrivals of the Concorde in the morning followed by the 772 from LGW and the 744 in the afternoon.) Eventually BA ended the 744 in March 2004, so all additional flights were operated by 772s from LGW.

Of note - is that the BWIA routings were (and I can be incorrect, so please feel free to let me know) - not operated as directly POS to LHR. The routing, if I have it correctly was POS-BGI-LHR-BGI-POS, though all operated on the same A340.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR2o92F1pl4

As a look back, I searched via the departedflight.com, and can note that as of a snapshot of 1996:

http://www.departedflights.com/LHR96intro.html

AIR JAMAICA LIMITED
Aircraft Operated:
Airbus A310
Destinations Served:
Kingston (Jamaica)


BWIA INTERNATIONAL
Aircraft Operated:
Lockheed L-1011 TriStar 500
Destinations Served:
Barbados (Barbados), Saint Lucia (West Indies)

The use of the A310 here is impressive!

Now UVF really comes to play in an interesting way as well because:

Per http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/bw/bw6210/bw6210i2.jpg

So, technically - with BWIA introducing the 707 (a 4 hole) and operating between not only POS, but other destinations on the way to MIA (and then JFK) means that it would have been the first 4 engined jet operating between the Caribbean and North America.

Backing to UVF, I know that it was used also as a stopover for the -LHR services (at least when the L1011s were in operation), with the routing looking like POS-BGI-LHR or POS-UVF-LHR. Again, please feel free to correct me if the routing was POS-LHR non-stop.

For several years BW operated a daily flight using the Tristar between POS and LHR with stops (in both directions) at BGI (on Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays), at ANU (on Wednesdays and Fridays) and at UVF (on Tuesdays and Sundays). The introduction of the A340 enabled nonstops to be operated and BW certainly did do some of them.

caribbean484 wrote:

caribny wrote:

par13del wrote:

...or he was trying to use the airline the way EK is used in Dubai, to facilitate a tourism and business boom, except his was not focused on a single country, maybe if he had used JM only to service Jamaica and his hotels there he might have had more success. The idea of JM providing service to other countries in the Caribbean and asking them for subsidies as given to US airlines was doomed to failure, still not sure how he got subsides for his hotels, usually such is reserved for non-Caribbean foreigners.

The only Caribbean islands where JM had significant market share was SLU (where he had at least 2 hotels) and GND. His operation to ANU was a failure and his market share to BGI was small, and mainly VFR. The goal was to use Jamaican taxpayers to subsidize HIS hotels via JM. JMs cost structure was extremely high because Butch just didnt understand that running an airline isnt like running a hotel chain, plus he had carte blanche from the Jamaican gov't to do as he wished. In so doing he put Jamaica into financial stress which is why eventually the IMF insisted that the airline be shut down.

Interesting to note that Jamaican tourism arrivals soared since Butch exited JM. Also that as soon as Butch was forced to hand over JM back to the gov't he shifted his business to other airlines. JM had levels of debt in line with some of the smaller Caribbean islands! Over expansion and a plethora of low yield routes. PHX to MBJ? Why?

I think we are blaming Butch Stewart too much for the failure of JM and not remembered that the Jamaican Government also held 25% but they also collaborated with JM fly these routes, because that at the time the US airlines did not want to fly tourist routes to Jamaica.
We have to remember that before 2005, the major US airline was operating was AA from MIA or JFK, with regional governments being forced to provide a subsidies to the airline. WN was not flying internationally, B6 was still a young airline, NK was changing its business model and the big 6 were in all sorts of trouble.

JM was flying all sorts of routes to bypass the old system; for instance MBJ-ORD would need to pay AA to fly there so they encouraged Stewart and company to fly these loss making routes and provide a bailout in the end as a result.
It is interesting that after JM got back in Government hands Butch Stewart forgot about JM and aligned his hotels to the airline's competitors.

gunnerman wrote:

Rajahdhani wrote:

Of note - is that the BWIA routings were (and I can be incorrect, so please feel free to let me know) - not operated as directly POS to LHR. The routing, if I have it correctly was POS-BGI-LHR-BGI-POS, though all operated on the same A340.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR2o92F1pl4

As a look back, I searched via the departedflight.com, and can note that as of a snapshot of 1996:



The use of the A310 here is impressive!

Now UVF really comes to play in an interesting way as well because:

Per http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/bw/bw6210/bw6210i2.jpg

So, technically - with BWIA introducing the 707 (a 4 hole) and operating between not only POS, but other destinations on the way to MIA (and then JFK) means that it would have been the first 4 engined jet operating between the Caribbean and North America.

Backing to UVF, I know that it was used also as a stopover for the -LHR services (at least when the L1011s were in operation), with the routing looking like POS-BGI-LHR or POS-UVF-LHR. Again, please feel free to correct me if the routing was POS-LHR non-stop.

For several years BW operated a daily flight using the Tristar between POS and LHR with stops (in both directions) at BGI (on Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays), at ANU (on Wednesdays and Fridays) and at UVF (on Tuesdays and Sundays). The introduction of the A340 enabled nonstops to be operated and BW certainly did do some of them.

The L1011 did flew a couple flights nonstop from POS-LHR. The issue was BWIA had an equipment problem on the route as the A340 was too big for the airline, but was needed to avoid ETOPS. BWIA was actually looking at the B767 and A332, and I believe the A332 won but the airline simply could not get ETOPs to fly across the Atlantic.

caribny wrote:

And the mere fact that Butch realigned his hotels to the majors, abandoning JM, puts a lie to the myth that he offered services that others werent willing to provide. AA, UA and WN all provided service to MBJ from Chicago prior to Covid.