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Midwestindy
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 1:58 pm

lightsaber wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:
airlineworker wrote:

Not if Breeze flies to cities not served by DL. ORH, HVN, ISP and SWF should all do well. LCC are the fastest growing airlines and these airports are fertile ground.


That's my point, if Breeze adds those cities from ATL, DL will more than likely add them as well.

The point is, those cities do not support daily flights. That is where the Breeze and Allegiant model of flying 2X to 5X per week has an advantage.

Lightsaber


In the case of ATL-ISP/SWF/e.t.c, 2x-5x weekly service does not have an advantage over the world's largest airline hub.

Whether or not those routes *could* support daily service is less relevant here, as airlines retaliate in their core hubs regardless of the service.

Remember when Volaris added CLT-GDL once or twice weekly, and AA went in 1 week later and added daily service?

Bluegrass60 wrote:
If DL is giving up 2 gates at ATL to Breeze....does that portend possible connections in ATL from/to Breeze flights? DL benefits from feed to/fr cities its partners do not go to and/or economics are bad? Can't imagine DL doing anything that would not benefit DL.


No
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
TerminalD
Posts: 385
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 1:58 pm

RJNUT wrote:
TerminalD wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
You realize that IATA is an independent organization from the FAA right? And there is nothing requiring an airline to be a part of IATA as well...

I realize you cannot sell tickets in GDS without an IATA code. Do you realize that?


Actually you can sell thru GDS without a code by piggy backing on Hahn Air's code and using their electronic ticketing platform! They have built an entire business around such arrangements for "off beat" airlines all over the world!

That still requires an IATA code, just Hahn Air's. Hahn takes a % of ticket sales for that service. There's no way Neeleman would pay Hahn that money when they could just get a code. Again, to start over. I'd find out what is the timeline for getting that code if you want to know when Breeze will sell tickets. They can't even announce and be in GDS without that because the Hahn Air solution isn't happening.
 
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Polot
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 2:09 pm

TerminalD wrote:
RJNUT wrote:
TerminalD wrote:
I realize you cannot sell tickets in GDS without an IATA code. Do you realize that?


Actually you can sell thru GDS without a code by piggy backing on Hahn Air's code and using their electronic ticketing platform! They have built an entire business around such arrangements for "off beat" airlines all over the world!

That still requires an IATA code, just Hahn Air's. Hahn takes a % of ticket sales for that service. There's no way Neeleman would pay Hahn that money when they could just get a code. Again, to start over. I'd find out what is the timeline for getting that code if you want to know when Breeze will sell tickets. They can't even announce and be in GDS without that because the Hahn Air solution isn't happening.


Who says they will sell tickets via GDS? They have talked about being very app/tech focused, they might just sell tickets via their app and their website.
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 2:24 pm

CALMSP wrote:
I was talking to my friend JT about the start date and he told me its gonna be May



I see what you did there.... :rotfl:
learning never stops...

FischAutoTechGarten is the full handle and it reflects my interest. It's abbreviated to fit A.net short usernames.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 2:46 pm

Polot wrote:
TerminalD wrote:
RJNUT wrote:

Actually you can sell thru GDS without a code by piggy backing on Hahn Air's code and using their electronic ticketing platform! They have built an entire business around such arrangements for "off beat" airlines all over the world!

That still requires an IATA code, just Hahn Air's. Hahn takes a % of ticket sales for that service. There's no way Neeleman would pay Hahn that money when they could just get a code. Again, to start over. I'd find out what is the timeline for getting that code if you want to know when Breeze will sell tickets. They can't even announce and be in GDS without that because the Hahn Air solution isn't happening.


Who says they will sell tickets via GDS? They have talked about being very app/tech focused, they might just sell tickets via their app and their website.

This I agree with. Breeze is all about minimizing costs. There is a good chance they only sell direct, cutting out aggregators with the goal of being the service to sell housing, rental car, uber/lyft.

I use the aggregators less and less as I rarely want Y-.
That said, I always compare fares.

Lightsaber
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
TerminalD
Posts: 385
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 3:01 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Polot wrote:
TerminalD wrote:
That still requires an IATA code, just Hahn Air's. Hahn takes a % of ticket sales for that service. There's no way Neeleman would pay Hahn that money when they could just get a code. Again, to start over. I'd find out what is the timeline for getting that code if you want to know when Breeze will sell tickets. They can't even announce and be in GDS without that because the Hahn Air solution isn't happening.


Who says they will sell tickets via GDS? They have talked about being very app/tech focused, they might just sell tickets via their app and their website.

This I agree with. Breeze is all about minimizing costs. There is a good chance they only sell direct, cutting out aggregators with the goal of being the service to sell housing, rental car, uber/lyft.

I use the aggregators less and less as I rarely want Y-.
That said, I always compare fares.

Lightsaber

I'd be shocked if they don't plan to start with an IATA code. Name another ULCC anywhere in the world with no IATA code? The answer: there aren't any.
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 4:34 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
lightsaber wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

That's my point, if Breeze adds those cities from ATL, DL will more than likely add them as well.

The point is, those cities do not support daily flights. That is where the Breeze and Allegiant model of flying 2X to 5X per week has an advantage.

Lightsaber


In the case of ATL-ISP/SWF/e.t.c, 2x-5x weekly service does not have an advantage over the world's largest airline hub.

Whether or not those routes *could* support daily service is less relevant here, as airlines retaliate in their core hubs regardless of the service.

Remember when Volaris added CLT-GDL once or twice weekly, and AA went in 1 week later and added daily service?

Bluegrass60 wrote:
If DL is giving up 2 gates at ATL to Breeze....does that portend possible connections in ATL from/to Breeze flights? DL benefits from feed to/fr cities its partners do not go to and/or economics are bad? Can't imagine DL doing anything that would not benefit DL.


No


"Unless you actually work for DL....will take your answer as....."I really doubt it based on my general knowledge of the airline business!"
 
rojo
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 5:08 pm

RJNUT wrote:
TerminalD wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
You realize that IATA is an independent organization from the FAA right? And there is nothing requiring an airline to be a part of IATA as well...

I realize you cannot sell tickets in GDS without an IATA code. Do you realize that?


Actually you can sell thru GDS without a code by piggy backing on Hahn Air's code and using their electronic ticketing platform! They have built an entire business around such arrangements for "off beat" airlines all over the world!


Technically you can't sell tickets through GDS's without an IATA code (even with Hahn)... Hahn Air offers ticketing solutions but Breeze will need an interline agreement with HR which requires Breeze to have an IATA code and participate in ARC/BSP with a ticket stock number to settle with Hahn Air. Hahn Air just helps airlines settle with Travel Agencies in countries where they don't participate in the Billing and Settlement Plan. I see Breeze working on getting an IATA code (if they don't have one already-not published).

I've seen airlines sell tickets and operate without an IATA code (they use ICAO code to operate and sell tickets via their own distribution channels) but they are very small or part of a tour operator.
 
Lilj4425
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 5:54 pm

The Forbes article states the routes will be under two hours. GSP-ATL is under two hours. Goes together perfectly. It’s cohesive. :D Match made in heaven.
 
tsra
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 6:14 pm

I am really curious how and what channels Breeze will use to market their product. For us a.net geeks, we have heard of Breeze and are excited for which cities will be announced for their start up. How many people have really heard of Breeze outside of the aviation community? I honestly do not think that I would of heard of Breeze if not for this page. I certainly would not have heard of Avelo. How does Breeze break through all of the social media noise and not only educate the consumer on their product but also convince people to buy into their product at secondary airports. For example, let's say Breeze decides to fly MKC-BKL, MKC-LAL, and MKC-DET (relax, I know these routes will never happen they are just examples). How does Breeze capture "those" passengers without blowing their complete budget on marketing?
 
airplaneboy
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 8:25 pm

lightsaber wrote:
While individual cities are dominated by Spirit, Southwest, or Allegiant in Florida, I see enough unserved that will not support daily flights for Breeze to thrive.

Midwestindy wrote:
airlineworker wrote:

Not if Breeze flies to cities not served by DL. ORH, HVN, ISP and SWF should all do well. LCC are the fastest growing airlines and these airports are fertile ground.


That's my point, if Breeze adds those cities from ATL, DL will more than likely add them as well.

The point is, those cities do not support daily flights. That is where the Breeze and Allegiant model of flying 2X to 5X per week has an advantage.

Lightsaber


Very likely that this demand exists. But in the name of protecting their position in Florida, airlines like WN might be willing to compete in similar markets. As a result of Covid, most carriers have already adapted to market conditions by changing their status quo. WN— for instance, is now flying some of their new markets sub-daily and has shown a willingness to enter markets that are smaller than what they would have flown to pre-pandemic.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 1:02 am

I'm beginning to wonder if Breeze will EVER start. LOL!
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 11:18 am

tsra wrote:
I am really curious how and what channels Breeze will use to market their product. For us a.net geeks, we have heard of Breeze and are excited for which cities will be announced for their start up. How many people have really heard of Breeze outside of the aviation community? I honestly do not think that I would of heard of Breeze if not for this page. I certainly would not have heard of Avelo. How does Breeze break through all of the social media noise and not only educate the consumer on their product but also convince people to buy into their product at secondary airports. For example, let's say Breeze decides to fly MKC-BKL, MKC-LAL, and MKC-DET (relax, I know these routes will never happen they are just examples). How does Breeze capture "those" passengers without blowing their complete budget on marketing?

There seems to be a huge difference in Breeze versus Avelo in searches:
https://trends.google.com/trends/explor ... m%2F05r8yw

Neeleman has a history of creating good word of mouth. I don't have a link, but I recall how low the initial JetBlue marketing budget was low and worked just by getting the name out.

Lightsaber
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
FLYBY72
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 2:23 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
I'm beginning to wonder if Breeze will EVER start. LOL!


Maybe they meant May of next year?
 
alohashirts
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 2:54 pm

FLYBY72 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
I'm beginning to wonder if Breeze will EVER start. LOL!


Maybe they meant May of next year?

Or perhaps they meant `May’be they’ll one day begin service.
 
iAvgeek737
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 3:10 pm

I was reading through some old forums, mainly the Spirit and Southwest ones. Man A-Net is funny. Its so interesting to see how people used to hate on Southwest for being a "Circus" and not being "Cheap and Reckless" in terms of labor and operations. Now we have Spirit and people see Southwest as the golden airline. Its also funny seeing how people perceive Breeze as it is created by JetBlue's founder so its automatically going to be a greatest thing since sliced bread when its really just Allegiant with free Wi-Fi and maybe one or two different things.
 
airlineworker
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 3:35 pm

alohashirts wrote:
FLYBY72 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
I'm beginning to wonder if Breeze will EVER start. LOL!


Maybe they meant May of next year?

Or perhaps they meant `May’be they’ll one day begin service.


Last year they ran a list of possible cities, must have been fake news, here we are in May and no announced cities. Starting to wonder if someone getting cold feet? Even a partial list of cities and routes would inspire confidence that Breeze is for real.
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 3:42 pm

Highly doubt that Breeze cares about inspiring confidence in this forum...
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 4:46 pm

iAvgeek737 wrote:
I was reading through some old forums, mainly the Spirit and Southwest ones. Man A-Net is funny. Its so interesting to see how people used to hate on Southwest for being a "Circus" and not being "Cheap and Reckless" in terms of labor and operations. Now we have Spirit and people see Southwest as the golden airline. Its also funny seeing how people perceive Breeze as it is created by JetBlue's founder so its automatically going to be a greatest thing since sliced bread when its really just Allegiant with free Wi-Fi and maybe one or two different things.

I posted upthread on Allegiant, Spirit, and Frontier's really poor customer satisfaction. One thing Neeleman is known for is creating airlines with good customer satisfaction. Comparing Allegiant and Breeze is worth a discussion:

1. Breeze claims their app is going to provide a better customer experience. I posted upthread how Allegiant noted in their last conference call they updated their homepage and app. In my opinion, that was really needed. So a once possible large competitive advantage was diluted. See the link below for "Allegiant 2.0" which helped. A lot for Allegiant, Breeze made a lot of noise on the app and Allegiant recognized and reduced the competitive weakness.
2. Customer experience. Allegiant still doesn't have service with a smile. It is a bit hectic to fly on.
3. Fees, Breeze has fewer fees and at least initially lower bag fees.
4. The A220s will have comfy seats. A small revenue enhancer for Breeze.
5. Cost structure. Like it or not, the pilot shortage is over. Breeze will have an easy time hiring in E-jet pilots. I wonder their strategy fir A220 pilots.
6. Conversely, Allegiant has ample stock of used A320CEOs to choose from. They should expand quickly. I see enough opportunity in 2x to 5x per week for years of growth.
7. Long haul will be an advantage for Breeze thanks to the A220. So once Breeze needs that as expansion, there will be a unit cost advantage vs Allegiant. I expect this to occur in a few years.
8. Customer base. Breeze has no existing customers to sell new routes advantage Allegiant. But due to many years of poor customer satisfaction, not a huge advantage for Allegiant if Breeze can get their name out.
9. Small gauge. Thanks to as already noted lease rates 1/3rd of what Azul was paying, Breeze van use the E190/195 to start markets with little risk.
10. Neeleman is amazing at PR. In my opinion at Morris Air, Westjet, JetBlue, and Azul he is one if the rare characters who gets extra PR easy a la Sir Richard Branson. Just my opinion...
10. Costs per passenger, I have never seen an airline setup to have a lower overhead and transaction cost than Breeze.

I find his prior airlines much less hassle than the competition. Allegiant is improving. They are a far better airline than 3 years ago in my opinion.

In my opinion, the newer Allegiant presentations are the best in the industry. That implies well run (stiff competition).
https://ir.allegiantair.com/static-file ... f510573ad7

I see room for competition marketed as higher end. I fully agree it us quite the Allegiant business model. That said, there is room for Breeze. I like the fewer "gotcha" fees of Breeze.

We will have to see. I see Breeze marketing ramping up once they are allowed to sell.

Lightsaber
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
iAvgeek737
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:23 am

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 5:15 pm

lightsaber wrote:
iAvgeek737 wrote:
I was reading through some old forums, mainly the Spirit and Southwest ones. Man A-Net is funny. Its so interesting to see how people used to hate on Southwest for being a "Circus" and not being "Cheap and Reckless" in terms of labor and operations. Now we have Spirit and people see Southwest as the golden airline. Its also funny seeing how people perceive Breeze as it is created by JetBlue's founder so its automatically going to be a greatest thing since sliced bread when its really just Allegiant with free Wi-Fi and maybe one or two different things.

I posted upthread on Allegiant, Spirit, and Frontier's really poor customer satisfaction. One thing Neeleman is known for is creating airlines with good customer satisfaction. Comparing Allegiant and Breeze is worth a discussion:

1. Breeze claims their app is going to provide a better customer experience. I posted upthread how Allegiant noted in their last conference call they updated their homepage and app. In my opinion, that was really needed. So a once possible large competitive advantage was diluted. See the link below for "Allegiant 2.0" which helped. A lot for Allegiant, Breeze made a lot of noise on the app and Allegiant recognized and reduced the competitive weakness.
2. Customer experience. Allegiant still doesn't have service with a smile. It is a bit hectic to fly on.
3. Fees, Breeze has fewer fees and at least initially lower bag fees.
4. The A220s will have comfy seats. A small revenue enhancer for Breeze.
5. Cost structure. Like it or not, the pilot shortage is over. Breeze will have an easy time hiring in E-jet pilots. I wonder their strategy fir A220 pilots.
6. Conversely, Allegiant has ample stock of used A320CEOs to choose from. They should expand quickly. I see enough opportunity in 2x to 5x per week for years of growth.
7. Long haul will be an advantage for Breeze thanks to the A220. So once Breeze needs that as expansion, there will be a unit cost advantage vs Allegiant. I expect this to occur in a few years.
8. Customer base. Breeze has no existing customers to sell new routes advantage Allegiant. But due to many years of poor customer satisfaction, not a huge advantage for Allegiant if Breeze can get their name out.
9. Small gauge. Thanks to as already noted lease rates 1/3rd of what Azul was paying, Breeze van use the E190/195 to start markets with little risk.
10. Neeleman is amazing at PR. In my opinion at Morris Air, Westjet, JetBlue, and Azul he is one if the rare characters who gets extra PR easy a la Sir Richard Branson. Just my opinion...
10. Costs per passenger, I have never seen an airline setup to have a lower overhead and transaction cost than Breeze.

I find his prior airlines much less hassle than the competition. Allegiant is improving. They are a far better airline than 3 years ago in my opinion.

In my opinion, the newer Allegiant presentations are the best in the industry. That implies well run (stiff competition).
https://ir.allegiantair.com/static-file ... f510573ad7

I see room for competition marketed as higher end. I fully agree it us quite the Allegiant business model. That said, there is room for Breeze. I like the fewer "gotcha" fees of Breeze.

We will have to see. I see Breeze marketing ramping up once they are allowed to sell.

Lightsaber



I agree with all of this, I was just pointing out its funny to see how WN was the ugly duckling on Anet. I cant wait for Breeze and the moment they announce they are flying out of GYY (or even MDW) I will be the first customer
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
Posts: 1518
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 5:20 pm

lightsaber wrote:

I posted upthread on Allegiant, Spirit, and Frontier's really poor customer satisfaction. One thing Neeleman is known for is creating airlines with good customer satisfaction. Comparing Allegiant and Breeze is worth a discussion:

1. Breeze claims their app is going to provide a better customer experience. I posted upthread how Allegiant noted in their last conference call they updated their homepage and app. In my opinion, that was really needed. So a once possible large competitive advantage was diluted. See the link below for "Allegiant 2.0" which helped. A lot for Allegiant, Breeze made a lot of noise on the app and Allegiant recognized and reduced the competitive weakness.
2. Customer experience. Allegiant still doesn't have service with a smile. It is a bit hectic to fly on.
3. Fees, Breeze has fewer fees and at least initially lower bag fees.
4. The A220s will have comfy seats. A small revenue enhancer for Breeze.
5. Cost structure. Like it or not, the pilot shortage is over. Breeze will have an easy time hiring in E-jet pilots. I wonder their strategy fir A220 pilots.
6. Conversely, Allegiant has ample stock of used A320CEOs to choose from. They should expand quickly. I see enough opportunity in 2x to 5x per week for years of growth.
7. Long haul will be an advantage for Breeze thanks to the A220. So once Breeze needs that as expansion, there will be a unit cost advantage vs Allegiant. I expect this to occur in a few years.
8. Customer base. Breeze has no existing customers to sell new routes advantage Allegiant. But due to many years of poor customer satisfaction, not a huge advantage for Allegiant if Breeze can get their name out.
9. Small gauge. Thanks to as already noted lease rates 1/3rd of what Azul was paying, Breeze van use the E190/195 to start markets with little risk.
10. Neeleman is amazing at PR. In my opinion at Morris Air, Westjet, JetBlue, and Azul he is one if the rare characters who gets extra PR easy a la Sir Richard Branson. Just my opinion...
10. Costs per passenger, I have never seen an airline setup to have a lower overhead and transaction cost than Breeze.

I find his prior airlines much less hassle than the competition. Allegiant is improving. They are a far better airline than 3 years ago in my opinion.

In my opinion, the newer Allegiant presentations are the best in the industry. That implies well run (stiff competition).
https://ir.allegiantair.com/static-file ... f510573ad7

I see room for competition marketed as higher end. I fully agree it us quite the Allegiant business model. That said, there is room for Breeze. I like the fewer "gotcha" fees of Breeze.

We will have to see. I see Breeze marketing ramping up once they are allowed to sell.

Lightsaber


That's an interesting comparison. One of the things I've wondered about re: Breeze is whether there is an opportunity to enter some of the markets that Allegiant gave up on relatively quickly years ago, at a different time for both G4 in particular and ULCCs in general. G4 doesn't seem to give many markets a second chance, which is why you'd think places like HSV and ILM might be candidates for service on Breeze, or in places where G4 has grown very little and offer only one or two destinations.
 
PVD757
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 11:01 pm

I’m just hoping PVD makes the list. Either way, the suspense is killing me!
 
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dabpit
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 2:20 am

PVD757 wrote:
I’m just hoping PVD makes the list. Either way, the suspense is killing me!

It is killing us all!

Training should be underway at a number of stations. If so an announcement should be coming soon. Yes, I know everyone keeps saying that so just have some patience folks.
Carpe Diem
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 2:22 am

Everyone should agree to start a new thread when the news actually comes so we can stop clicking on this one :)
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 2:28 am

It seems to me that E-Jets came to compose the fleet for a long time.

But, ahhh, yes, the leasing cost was a bargain, the engines are "gas guzzlers" and with high maintenance costs,
problems with wing structures and bla-bla-bla ...

Source:
https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/breeze- ... l-program/

Excerpt:

"Embraer has announced via a press release it has signed a long-term "Pool Program Contract" with Breeze Airways.
The agreement aims to provide a wide variety of repairable parts for airline´s fleet of E190 and E195s.

The deal provides complete unit and piece replacement coverage, as well as access to a wider supply of components
at Embraer´s delivery center. This will aid in the airline´s operation."
 
FLYBY72
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 2:29 am

Yeah. This thread should be locked until they finally at least start selling tickets.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 4:56 am

I'm floored that 4,400 pilots applied for 85 positions:
https://www.businessinsider.com/breeze- ... ing-2021-4

I'm curious as to the ramp rate of that hiring. Depending on the planned utilization, that is enough pilots for 6 to 12 aircraft (more likely more aircraft due to low utilization).

EMBSPBR wrote:
It seems to me that E-Jets came to compose the fleet for a long time.

But, ahhh, yes, the leasing cost was a bargain, the engines are "gas guzzlers" and with high maintenance costs,
problems with wing structures and bla-bla-bla ...

Source:
https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/breeze- ... l-program/

Excerpt:

"Embraer has announced via a press release it has signed a long-term "Pool Program Contract" with Breeze Airways.
The agreement aims to provide a wide variety of repairable parts for airline´s fleet of E190 and E195s.

The deal provides complete unit and piece replacement coverage, as well as access to a wider supply of components
at Embraer´s delivery center. This will aid in the airline´s operation."

For the low utilization model Breeze is going to be implementing, the E-jets are a great deal. The flying is limited, so the high variable costs ("gas guzzlers" with high maintenance costs) are overcome by good yield (presumably) and low fixed costs. A win-win. I'm happy Breeze is signing the needed contracts to service their fleet.

From my first link:
Pilots assigned to the Embraer fleet will return to their base every night instead of spending nights on the road. It's a concept that saves Breeze on hotel expenses but also allows pilots to spend more time at home.

There is no way to ensure the plane returns to the same home base with high utilization. That means they will hold up for a long time. Breeze could (eventually) even buy 2nd hand E2s one day. :spin:

Lightsaber
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 5:31 am

iAvgeek737 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
iAvgeek737 wrote:
I was reading through some old forums, mainly the Spirit and Southwest ones. Man A-Net is funny. Its so interesting to see how people used to hate on Southwest for being a "Circus" and not being "Cheap and Reckless" in terms of labor and operations. Now we have Spirit and people see Southwest as the golden airline. Its also funny seeing how people perceive Breeze as it is created by JetBlue's founder so its automatically going to be a greatest thing since sliced bread when its really just Allegiant with free Wi-Fi and maybe one or two different things.

I posted upthread on Allegiant, Spirit, and Frontier's really poor customer satisfaction. One thing Neeleman is known for is creating airlines with good customer satisfaction. Comparing Allegiant and Breeze is worth a discussion:

1. Breeze claims their app is going to provide a better customer experience. I posted upthread how Allegiant noted in their last conference call they updated their homepage and app. In my opinion, that was really needed. So a once possible large competitive advantage was diluted. See the link below for "Allegiant 2.0" which helped. A lot for Allegiant, Breeze made a lot of noise on the app and Allegiant recognized and reduced the competitive weakness.
2. Customer experience. Allegiant still doesn't have service with a smile. It is a bit hectic to fly on.
3. Fees, Breeze has fewer fees and at least initially lower bag fees.
4. The A220s will have comfy seats. A small revenue enhancer for Breeze.
5. Cost structure. Like it or not, the pilot shortage is over. Breeze will have an easy time hiring in E-jet pilots. I wonder their strategy fir A220 pilots.
6. Conversely, Allegiant has ample stock of used A320CEOs to choose from. They should expand quickly. I see enough opportunity in 2x to 5x per week for years of growth.
7. Long haul will be an advantage for Breeze thanks to the A220. So once Breeze needs that as expansion, there will be a unit cost advantage vs Allegiant. I expect this to occur in a few years.
8. Customer base. Breeze has no existing customers to sell new routes advantage Allegiant. But due to many years of poor customer satisfaction, not a huge advantage for Allegiant if Breeze can get their name out.
9. Small gauge. Thanks to as already noted lease rates 1/3rd of what Azul was paying, Breeze van use the E190/195 to start markets with little risk.
10. Neeleman is amazing at PR. In my opinion at Morris Air, Westjet, JetBlue, and Azul he is one if the rare characters who gets extra PR easy a la Sir Richard Branson. Just my opinion...
10. Costs per passenger, I have never seen an airline setup to have a lower overhead and transaction cost than Breeze.

I find his prior airlines much less hassle than the competition. Allegiant is improving. They are a far better airline than 3 years ago in my opinion.

In my opinion, the newer Allegiant presentations are the best in the industry. That implies well run (stiff competition).
https://ir.allegiantair.com/static-file ... f510573ad7

I see room for competition marketed as higher end. I fully agree it us quite the Allegiant business model. That said, there is room for Breeze. I like the fewer "gotcha" fees of Breeze.

We will have to see. I see Breeze marketing ramping up once they are allowed to sell.

Lightsaber



I agree with all of this, I was just pointing out its funny to see how WN was the ugly duckling on Anet. I cant wait for Breeze and the moment they announce they are flying out of GYY (or even MDW) I will be the first customer

I have been hearing for months that GYY has been talking to "Someone". The sudden renovation of the terminal and offices, plus expansion of the lobby area (adding a security zone?) is for more that just UPS I think, who is leasing some of the office space, as well as the hanger next door to use for a sort.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 5:52 am

lightsaber wrote:
I'm floored that 4,400 pilots applied for 85 positions:
https://www.businessinsider.com/breeze- ... ing-2021-4

I'm curious as to the ramp rate of that hiring. Depending on the planned utilization, that is enough pilots for 6 to 12 aircraft (more likely more aircraft due to low utilization).

EMBSPBR wrote:
It seems to me that E-Jets came to compose the fleet for a long time.

But, ahhh, yes, the leasing cost was a bargain, the engines are "gas guzzlers" and with high maintenance costs,
problems with wing structures and bla-bla-bla ...

Source:
https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/breeze- ... l-program/

Excerpt:

"Embraer has announced via a press release it has signed a long-term "Pool Program Contract" with Breeze Airways.
The agreement aims to provide a wide variety of repairable parts for airline´s fleet of E190 and E195s.

The deal provides complete unit and piece replacement coverage, as well as access to a wider supply of components
at Embraer´s delivery center. This will aid in the airline´s operation."

For the low utilization model Breeze is going to be implementing, the E-jets are a great deal. The flying is limited, so the high variable costs ("gas guzzlers" with high maintenance costs) are overcome by good yield (presumably) and low fixed costs. A win-win. I'm happy Breeze is signing the needed contracts to service their fleet.

From my first link:
Pilots assigned to the Embraer fleet will return to their base every night instead of spending nights on the road. It's a concept that saves Breeze on hotel expenses but also allows pilots to spend more time at home.

There is no way to ensure the plane returns to the same home base with high utilization. That means they will hold up for a long time. Breeze could (eventually) even buy 2nd hand E2s one day. :spin:

Lightsaber


I am not surprised at all.
The pilot shortage is over, and will be for years, especially once PPP stops
.
Neelman has a track record of success.... Anyone signing on now will likely be a management pilot in 24 months, or at least #1 or #2 in any base they chose. Trading two tough years in the beginning for 10-15 years of great QOL is likely very attractive, especially to the likes of senior regional pilots, some who took the buyouts.

As far as reliability, they are going with the "Power-by-the-Hour" plan, so that takes the biggest part of the maintenance uncertainties out of the equation.

If they have only one or two bases in the beginning, it is entirely possible to keep utilization up on the short legs they are flying, and still return to base in the evening. Allegiant did it for years.
They will have the occasional IROP-caused overnights. As they grow, that will likely change, especially as contracts get renegotiated. But for now, they shouldn't have any trouble at all.
With EAMS facilities in Nashville, La Vergne, Macon, the factory facility in Melbourne, plus Clay Lacy in the Northeast, support is reasonably close by in the east.
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 8:55 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
I'm beginning to wonder if Breeze will EVER start. LOL!


This has to be sarcasm right? Everything is falling in place for them quite nicely. Breeze is going to take off, their timing thru nothing but luck will be excellent.


4,400 pilots applied for 85 positions. I'm not surprised, the pilot shortage is something legacy fans like to pull out why a new airline cant start. Clearly they had no problem getting applicants!
 
Curiousflyer
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 9:24 am

Will the FAs all be Utah mormons? That questions has to be asked.
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 9:58 am

I am patiently waiting with excitement to see their route network plans. I am hoping that Breeze gets moving here in the next 30 days or so. They can then capitalize on some of the summer travel. Kind of like waiting for Santa.......
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 12:17 pm

Curiousflyer wrote:
Will the FAs all be Utah mormons? That questions has to be asked.


Why?
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 12:23 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
I'm beginning to wonder if Breeze will EVER start. LOL!


This has to be sarcasm right? Everything is falling in place for them quite nicely. Breeze is going to take off, their timing thru nothing but luck will be excellent.


4,400 pilots applied for 85 positions. I'm not surprised, the pilot shortage is something legacy fans like to pull out why a new airline cant start. Clearly they had no problem getting applicants!


The initial announcement will be very underwhelming, "We waited all that time for THIS?" But that's because they'll have a tiny number of planes, only a handful of people, and that means only a tiny number of dots on the map.

Maybe in coming years Breeze will be a 'Big Deal,' but not until then.
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 12:32 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
I'm beginning to wonder if Breeze will EVER start. LOL!


This has to be sarcasm right? Everything is falling in place for them quite nicely. Breeze is going to take off, their timing thru nothing but luck will be excellent.


4,400 pilots applied for 85 positions. I'm not surprised, the pilot shortage is something legacy fans like to pull out why a new airline cant start. Clearly they had no problem getting applicants!


The initial announcement will be very underwhelming, "We waited all that time for THIS?" But that's because they'll have a tiny number of planes, only a handful of people, and that means only a tiny number of dots on the map.

Maybe in coming years Breeze will be a 'Big Deal,' but not until then.


What's your definition of "underwhelming"? Breeze will likely feel like a "big deal" to the cities it chooses to fly to, at least.
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 12:40 pm

Boiler905 wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

This has to be sarcasm right? Everything is falling in place for them quite nicely. Breeze is going to take off, their timing thru nothing but luck will be excellent.


4,400 pilots applied for 85 positions. I'm not surprised, the pilot shortage is something legacy fans like to pull out why a new airline cant start. Clearly they had no problem getting applicants!


The initial announcement will be very underwhelming, "We waited all that time for THIS?" But that's because they'll have a tiny number of planes, only a handful of people, and that means only a tiny number of dots on the map.

Maybe in coming years Breeze will be a 'Big Deal,' but not until then.


What's your definition of "underwhelming"? Breeze will likely feel like a "big deal" to the cities it chooses to fly to, at least.


But that's just it...the list of cities it initially chooses will be a very, very small one. It just doesn't have the planes or people to do anything more grand. That's not a diss on Breeze; just a realistic outlook for the first announcement.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
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Boiler905
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 12:43 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
Boiler905 wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:

The initial announcement will be very underwhelming, "We waited all that time for THIS?" But that's because they'll have a tiny number of planes, only a handful of people, and that means only a tiny number of dots on the map.

Maybe in coming years Breeze will be a 'Big Deal,' but not until then.


What's your definition of "underwhelming"? Breeze will likely feel like a "big deal" to the cities it chooses to fly to, at least.


But that's just it...the list of cities it initially chooses will be a very, very small one. It just doesn't have the planes or people to do anything more grand. That's not a diss on Breeze; just a realistic outlook for the first announcement.


Gotcha. I think for me, if Breeze announces more than 8 cities I'll be impressed as that seems like it would be a lot
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Grandforks12
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 12:49 pm

Do you think Colorado Springs (COS) could see some Breeze action?
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 12:59 pm

Boiler905 wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
Boiler905 wrote:

What's your definition of "underwhelming"? Breeze will likely feel like a "big deal" to the cities it chooses to fly to, at least.


But that's just it...the list of cities it initially chooses will be a very, very small one. It just doesn't have the planes or people to do anything more grand. That's not a diss on Breeze; just a realistic outlook for the first announcement.


Gotcha. I think for me, if Breeze announces more than 8 cities I'll be impressed as that seems like it would be a lot


I agree! With not one single A220 to call their own, that will be a good start!
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 1:09 pm

Grandforks12 wrote:
Do you think Colorado Springs (COS) could see some Breeze action?

Excluding SLC, due to Breeze operations there, I do no expect flights that far West for two or three years.

As prior links;
https://onemileatatime.com/breeze-airwa ... %20airport

Breeze will fly from an airport in the southeast to four airports in the northeast, and from another airport even further south to four airports in the northeast, southeast, and southern plains

In the months to follow, Breeze will increase operations from the two initial airports in the southeast, and add a third airport

By July 2021, Breeze plans to increase service from existing airports, and also fly from another airport in the southeast to airports in the northeast, southern plains, and mid-Atlantic


Colorado will be late in the game.

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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 1:14 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Grandforks12 wrote:
Do you think Colorado Springs (COS) could see some Breeze action?

Excluding SLC, due to Breeze operations there, I do no expect flights that far West for two or three years.

As prior links;
https://onemileatatime.com/breeze-airwa ... %20airport

Breeze will fly from an airport in the southeast to four airports in the northeast, and from another airport even further south to four airports in the northeast, southeast, and southern plains

In the months to follow, Breeze will increase operations from the two initial airports in the southeast, and add a third airport

By July 2021, Breeze plans to increase service from existing airports, and also fly from another airport in the southeast to airports in the northeast, southern plains, and mid-Atlantic


Colorado will be late in the game.

Lightsaber


Their letter if support for XNA 's grant app and Southern plains leads one to think XNA is up on the early dot list. Not to mention it is a market that will grow with them.
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 1:33 pm

lightsaber wrote:
tsra wrote:
I am really curious how and what channels Breeze will use to market their product. For us a.net geeks, we have heard of Breeze and are excited for which cities will be announced for their start up. How many people have really heard of Breeze outside of the aviation community? I honestly do not think that I would of heard of Breeze if not for this page. I certainly would not have heard of Avelo. How does Breeze break through all of the social media noise and not only educate the consumer on their product but also convince people to buy into their product at secondary airports. For example, let's say Breeze decides to fly MKC-BKL, MKC-LAL, and MKC-DET (relax, I know these routes will never happen they are just examples). How does Breeze capture "those" passengers without blowing their complete budget on marketing?

There seems to be a huge difference in Breeze versus Avelo in searches:
https://trends.google.com/trends/explor ... m%2F05r8yw

Neeleman has a history of creating good word of mouth. I don't have a link, but I recall how low the initial JetBlue marketing budget was low and worked just by getting the name out.

Lightsaber


That's not a useful framework, IMHO. B6 was started in the largest air market in the country. There's demonstrated demand - with non-stops every day - to a hundred domestic airports from NYC. Contrast that with Breeze's focus on undeserved city pairs. How are they going to get 80 people a day to pay decent money to fly something like GSP-STL? Everyone who flies it knows the AA and DL hubs - and just may need to fly somewhere other than STL routinely.
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 2:27 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
tsra wrote:
I am really curious how and what channels Breeze will use to market their product. For us a.net geeks, we have heard of Breeze and are excited for which cities will be announced for their start up. How many people have really heard of Breeze outside of the aviation community? I honestly do not think that I would of heard of Breeze if not for this page. I certainly would not have heard of Avelo. How does Breeze break through all of the social media noise and not only educate the consumer on their product but also convince people to buy into their product at secondary airports. For example, let's say Breeze decides to fly MKC-BKL, MKC-LAL, and MKC-DET (relax, I know these routes will never happen they are just examples). How does Breeze capture "those" passengers without blowing their complete budget on marketing?

There seems to be a huge difference in Breeze versus Avelo in searches:
https://trends.google.com/trends/explor ... m%2F05r8yw

Neeleman has a history of creating good word of mouth. I don't have a link, but I recall how low the initial JetBlue marketing budget was low and worked just by getting the name out.

Lightsaber


That's not a useful framework, IMHO. B6 was started in the largest air market in the country. There's demonstrated demand - with non-stops every day - to a hundred domestic airports from NYC. Contrast that with Breeze's focus on undeserved city pairs. How are they going to get 80 people a day to pay decent money to fly something like GSP-STL? Everyone who flies it knows the AA and DL hubs - and just may need to fly somewhere other than STL routinely.


Everything that I have read suggests that they will not run daily, and for the leisure market people are often able to plan around the available flights. It doesn't seem to be a problem for Allegiant and Frontier.

I also think that plenty of people will pay a premium for nonstop service, at least from the Northeast to the Southeast where the legacy hubs often have weather issues in both summer and winter.
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 3:11 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
That's not a useful framework, IMHO. B6 was started in the largest air market in the country. There's demonstrated demand - with non-stops every day - to a hundred domestic airports from NYC. Contrast that with Breeze's focus on undeserved city pairs. How are they going to get 80 people a day to pay decent money to fly something like GSP-STL? Everyone who flies it knows the AA and DL hubs - and just may need to fly somewhere other than STL routinely.


In addition to the connecting options that are there to GSP from STL on AA and DL, WN also offers connections to GSP from STL through ATL. WN also connected more passengers between GSP and STL than AA or DL did in Q3 2019.

There are also still some more adds that could be made out of STL on WN such as STL-ALB/BUF/CVG/RIC and the return of STL-ABQ/BHM/GRR/SDF/ORF nonstop service.

WN also already has an established FF base in STL, LIT, MCI, OMA, TUL, OKC, and other markets to support the existing WN nonstop routes out of STL, and there are also some WN FF's in STL and other markets west of the Mississippi River who would choose WN over Breeze if traveling to a destination that has nonstop or 1-stop connecting service on WN.

The top contiguous U.S. markets not served by WN traveled to from STL include GSO, SYR, MDT, CAE, TYS, FCA, ILM, MSN, FSD, FAR, BTV, and TVC, but these markets had PDEW's of less than 24 passengers/day from STL in Q3 2019.

If Breeze does enter the STL market, the kind of markets that Breeze would likely be serving nonstop from STL would be markets that don't currently have any WN service.
 
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 3:49 pm

mjgbtv wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
There seems to be a huge difference in Breeze versus Avelo in searches:
https://trends.google.com/trends/explor ... m%2F05r8yw

Neeleman has a history of creating good word of mouth. I don't have a link, but I recall how low the initial JetBlue marketing budget was low and worked just by getting the name out.

Lightsaber


That's not a useful framework, IMHO. B6 was started in the largest air market in the country. There's demonstrated demand - with non-stops every day - to a hundred domestic airports from NYC. Contrast that with Breeze's focus on undeserved city pairs. How are they going to get 80 people a day to pay decent money to fly something like GSP-STL? Everyone who flies it knows the AA and DL hubs - and just may need to fly somewhere other than STL routinely.


Everything that I have read suggests that they will not run daily, and for the leisure market people are often able to plan around the available flights. It doesn't seem to be a problem for Allegiant and Frontier.

I also think that plenty of people will pay a premium for nonstop service, at least from the Northeast to the Southeast where the legacy hubs often have weather issues in both summer and winter.

To build on this. I think their is high demand for a "nice" ULCC flying 2x to 5x per week and seasonal. As just noted, the model works well at Frontier and Allegiant. I see huge demand. Honestly, I dismissed the model until I saw an Allegiant flight to a city I want to fly to more at almost perfect timing for myself. (Mon & Fri, I'd prefer the flight shifted on one side by a day, but not as much as I prefer bypassing a hub).

So I consider my analogy close enough. I recall JetBlue was lambasted for not really starting new routes. This is airline #6 for Neeleman. I see:
1. Identification of an underserved niche (small P2P).
2. Identification of competitor weakness (webpages/apps are aweful An app designed around flight switching would be great!).
3. Selling ancillary items that are less punitive than the competition. This means all transactions through app. The Allegiant customer presentation I linked to upthread notes customers first book airline tickets. Why isn't there an option for holiday excursions from say airport xxx, where one can put in dates and the airline sells the rest. More comment below.
4. Hiring and processes to best competitors customer satisfaction.
5. Low cost basis. Extreamly low. Policies put in place to keep costs low and reduce cost creep. The plan that the E-jets always return home to avoid hotel and per diem costs just makes sense.

I like to travel on a whim. My dates, like most working people, are limited. Let us say the weekend of June 12th I want to get away. I'd love it if Breeze had packages. Fly, transport to a cruise ship, cruise, transport back, fly back.

In my opinion, the 2x to 5x per week flying will displace a good fraction of regional flying. People never liked hubs, RJs are stuck in prior generation economics, and Covid19 avoidance will lead to more direct flying.

We all anticipate the launch of sales and it is becoming obsessive what routes. However, Breeze probably can only setup one base initially. That probably means 3 or 4 initial destinations (spoke points). Then a second base that connects some dots, but allows say 3 or 4 more spoke points. Then so on and so on.

We are likely to be very disappointed in the first routes. That said, I expect 3 or 4 bases by year end and 10+ spokes.

The interesting bit will be how they weave in the A223 on higher demand pairs and do long haul. I expect the A220 utilization in hours per week to, over a year, be about 2.5X the E-jets.

I see the challenge for Breeze is to get the app onto phones. That takes routes, advertising, and return customers. That takes time (and money).

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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 6:17 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
lightsaber wrote:

I posted upthread on Allegiant, Spirit, and Frontier's really poor customer satisfaction. One thing Neeleman is known for is creating airlines with good customer satisfaction. Comparing Allegiant and Breeze is worth a discussion:

1. Breeze claims their app is going to provide a better customer experience. I posted upthread how Allegiant noted in their last conference call they updated their homepage and app. In my opinion, that was really needed. So a once possible large competitive advantage was diluted. See the link below for "Allegiant 2.0" which helped. A lot for Allegiant, Breeze made a lot of noise on the app and Allegiant recognized and reduced the competitive weakness.
2. Customer experience. Allegiant still doesn't have service with a smile. It is a bit hectic to fly on.
3. Fees, Breeze has fewer fees and at least initially lower bag fees.
4. The A220s will have comfy seats. A small revenue enhancer for Breeze.
5. Cost structure. Like it or not, the pilot shortage is over. Breeze will have an easy time hiring in E-jet pilots. I wonder their strategy fir A220 pilots.
6. Conversely, Allegiant has ample stock of used A320CEOs to choose from. They should expand quickly. I see enough opportunity in 2x to 5x per week for years of growth.
7. Long haul will be an advantage for Breeze thanks to the A220. So once Breeze needs that as expansion, there will be a unit cost advantage vs Allegiant. I expect this to occur in a few years.
8. Customer base. Breeze has no existing customers to sell new routes advantage Allegiant. But due to many years of poor customer satisfaction, not a huge advantage for Allegiant if Breeze can get their name out.
9. Small gauge. Thanks to as already noted lease rates 1/3rd of what Azul was paying, Breeze van use the E190/195 to start markets with little risk.
10. Neeleman is amazing at PR. In my opinion at Morris Air, Westjet, JetBlue, and Azul he is one if the rare characters who gets extra PR easy a la Sir Richard Branson. Just my opinion...
10. Costs per passenger, I have never seen an airline setup to have a lower overhead and transaction cost than Breeze.

I find his prior airlines much less hassle than the competition. Allegiant is improving. They are a far better airline than 3 years ago in my opinion.

In my opinion, the newer Allegiant presentations are the best in the industry. That implies well run (stiff competition).
https://ir.allegiantair.com/static-file ... f510573ad7

I see room for competition marketed as higher end. I fully agree it us quite the Allegiant business model. That said, there is room for Breeze. I like the fewer "gotcha" fees of Breeze.

We will have to see. I see Breeze marketing ramping up once they are allowed to sell.

Lightsaber


That's an interesting comparison. One of the things I've wondered about re: Breeze is whether there is an opportunity to enter some of the markets that Allegiant gave up on relatively quickly years ago, at a different time for both G4 in particular and ULCCs in general. G4 doesn't seem to give many markets a second chance, which is why you'd think places like HSV and ILM might be candidates for service on Breeze, or in places where G4 has grown very little and offer only one or two destinations.

Thank you.

The E190 allows Breeze to go into smaller markets. I expect Breeze to tap into underserved Allegiant (and every other airline's) underserved direct flights.

I really see Breeze as a high end Allegiant, using some of what worked at prior Neeleman airlines and some transition where Neeleman has realized certain features (app based sales) are best if done day one.

Allegiant has become much better at mining their data for opportunities. I see both growing quickly for the next 4 years. Partially as 76 seat RJs just aren't economical vs. a sharkleted A320 or A220.

Allegiant is also back to profitable:
https://ir.allegiantair.com/news-releas ... al-results

So an interesting competition.
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 7:08 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I'm floored that 4,400 pilots applied for 85 positions:
https://www.businessinsider.com/breeze- ... ing-2021-4

I'm curious as to the ramp rate of that hiring. Depending on the planned utilization, that is enough pilots for 6 to 12 aircraft (more likely more aircraft due to low utilization).

EMBSPBR wrote:
It seems to me that E-Jets came to compose the fleet for a long time.

But, ahhh, yes, the leasing cost was a bargain, the engines are "gas guzzlers" and with high maintenance costs,
problems with wing structures and bla-bla-bla ...

Source:
https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/breeze- ... l-program/

Excerpt:

"Embraer has announced via a press release it has signed a long-term "Pool Program Contract" with Breeze Airways.
The agreement aims to provide a wide variety of repairable parts for airline´s fleet of E190 and E195s.

The deal provides complete unit and piece replacement coverage, as well as access to a wider supply of components
at Embraer´s delivery center. This will aid in the airline´s operation."

For the low utilization model Breeze is going to be implementing, the E-jets are a great deal. The flying is limited, so the high variable costs ("gas guzzlers" with high maintenance costs) are overcome by good yield (presumably) and low fixed costs. A win-win. I'm happy Breeze is signing the needed contracts to service their fleet.

From my first link:
Pilots assigned to the Embraer fleet will return to their base every night instead of spending nights on the road. It's a concept that saves Breeze on hotel expenses but also allows pilots to spend more time at home.

There is no way to ensure the plane returns to the same home base with high utilization. That means they will hold up for a long time. Breeze could (eventually) even buy 2nd hand E2s one day. :spin:

Lightsaber


I am not surprised at all.
The pilot shortage is over, and will be for years, especially once PPP stops
.
Neelman has a track record of success.... Anyone signing on now will likely be a management pilot in 24 months, or at least #1 or #2 in any base they chose. Trading two tough years in the beginning for 10-15 years of great QOL is likely very attractive, especially to the likes of senior regional pilots, some who took the buyouts.

As far as reliability, they are going with the "Power-by-the-Hour" plan, so that takes the biggest part of the maintenance uncertainties out of the equation.

If they have only one or two bases in the beginning, it is entirely possible to keep utilization up on the short legs they are flying, and still return to base in the evening. Allegiant did it for years.
They will have the occasional IROP-caused overnights. As they grow, that will likely change, especially as contracts get renegotiated. But for now, they shouldn't have any trouble at all.
With EAMS facilities in Nashville, La Vergne, Macon, the factory facility in Melbourne, plus Clay Lacy in the Northeast, support is reasonably close by in the east.

Most pilots hired so far are late 20’s through early 40’s. For many, a 30+ year career.

As for planes returning to base every night, there would be no requirement for that to happen. Even at the regional level, doing a day trip, I hardly ever kept the same plane all day.
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flightsimer
Posts: 1134
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 7:11 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
I'm beginning to wonder if Breeze will EVER start. LOL!


This has to be sarcasm right? Everything is falling in place for them quite nicely. Breeze is going to take off, their timing thru nothing but luck will be excellent.


4,400 pilots applied for 85 positions. I'm not surprised, the pilot shortage is something legacy fans like to pull out why a new airline cant start. Clearly they had no problem getting applicants!


The initial announcement will be very underwhelming, "We waited all that time for THIS?" But that's because they'll have a tiny number of planes, only a handful of people, and that means only a tiny number of dots on the map.

Maybe in coming years Breeze will be a 'Big Deal,' but not until then.
I doubt it. I expect everyone to be very surprised and excited. Plus, How is 6 planes in the fleet already and 2 more soon to be delivered a tiny number of aircraft?
Last edited by flightsimer on Wed May 05, 2021 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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airlinepeanuts
Posts: 100
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 7:15 pm

flightsimer wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

This has to be sarcasm right? Everything is falling in place for them quite nicely. Breeze is going to take off, their timing thru nothing but luck will be excellent.


4,400 pilots applied for 85 positions. I'm not surprised, the pilot shortage is something legacy fans like to pull out why a new airline cant start. Clearly they had no problem getting applicants!


The initial announcement will be very underwhelming, "We waited all that time for THIS?" But that's because they'll have a tiny number of planes, only a handful of people, and that means only a tiny number of dots on the map.

Maybe in coming years Breeze will be a 'Big Deal,' but not until then.
I doubt it. I expected everyone to be very surprised and excited. Plus, How is 6 planes in the fleet already and 2 more soon to be delivered a tiny number of aircraft?


Yeah doesn't Avelo actually only have 2 planes on property right now and quite a few routes announced?
 
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sunking737
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 8:15 pm

SCX had mostly day trips, so their crews could be home every night. That was why so many worked for them for so many years. They would carry one or two extra pilots to make that happen
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