airlinepeanuts wrote:

If they can do the west coast from HPN I think they'd print cash

Only if it’s HPN-LAX/SFO. There’s no way anything else would work and even that’s a stretch.

alohashirts wrote:

airlinepeanuts wrote:

If they can do the west coast from HPN I think they'd print cash

Only if it’s HPN-LAX/SFO. There’s no way anything else would work and even that’s a stretch.

Yeah for sure.

flyPIT wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Are you saying Pittsburgh is a growing city/metro? That's not correct.

Even MSY's growth is muted but the VFR aspect with Breeze makes total sense there.

PIT struggles maintaining LAX service, not sure if PIT-SAN is "huge" but it could be served down the road.

You are certainly correct, Pittsburgh is not a growing region, population wise. Job growth is anemic as well. This has been exasperated by the fact PIT is in PA, and PA suffered some of the worst COVID restrictions in the nation. This is reflected in the employment stats and the fact PIT has fallen behind its peer cities in total passengers served.

Fortunately for PIT, Neeleman and Breeze are in it for the long haul and are looking beyond these near term issues. The fact remains there are plenty of unserved and underserved markets from PIT. PIT-BDL pdew was approx 100 when it was served by Transtates and their at risk AA flying. When they dropped their at risk flying the pdew fell to single digits. People just didn’t want to make a connecting flight. This is a perfect example how a nonstop stimulates demand. BDL, RIC, MKE, ECP,, AUS, SAT, MSY all unserved or underserved from PIT. SAN was last served by F9 with A321s in the off season yet managed good loads. Pricing power/yields would be much more favorable with an A220.

The VFR aspect is present in any city.

I have no issue with Breeze staring PIT and am happy to see them fill underserved routes from there. Had an issue with the first poster saying PIT was growing like BNA and RDU. That’s not true and needed to be corrected.

There’s more VFR traffic to MSY than to places such as PIT or RDU. That’s not a slam on Pittsburgh or Raleigh, it’s just the state of tourism today.

airlinepeanuts wrote:

If they can do the west coast from HPN I think they'd print cash

With a 6500' foot runway I assume that would be a challenge, right?

izbtmnhd wrote:

There’s more VFR traffic to MSY than to places such as PIT or RDU. That’s not a slam on Pittsburgh or Raleigh, it’s just the state of tourism today.

I'm not sure I understand this claim. I understand the tourism attraction of New Orleans, but why is VFR so much more?

izbtmnhd wrote:

There’s more VFR traffic to MSY than to places such as PIT or RDU. That’s not a slam on Pittsburgh or Raleigh, it’s just the state of tourism today.

I think you are confusing leisure/vacation traffic with “Visiting Friends and Relatives”. Do people in New Orleans have more friends and relatives per capita than elsewhere?

If anything it is the rust belt cities such as PIT and CLE that had a good portion of their population move south that have a higher VFR aspect.

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

airlinepeanuts wrote:

If they can do the west coast from HPN I think they'd print cash

With a 6500' foot runway I assume that would be a challenge, right?

There are SNA-Hawaii flights and that's a smaller runway larger airplane

Cool to see the potential airports BZ will fly to out east. As far as the western portion of the country goes, I think BZ will had airports at a slower pace. I think the first ones out west we’ll see are an LA area airport, either SLC or PVU (especially since their HQ are in the area), LAS, SAN, AZA or PHX, AUS, SAT, and a Dallas area airport.

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

airlinepeanuts wrote:

If they can do the west coast from HPN I think they'd print cash

With a 6500' foot runway I assume that would be a challenge, right?

Not the only challenge there. NIMBY's wouldn't allow it

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

airlinepeanuts wrote:

If they can do the west coast from HPN I think they'd print cash

With a 6500' foot runway I assume that would be a challenge, right?

Don’t think an A220 would have much trouble with it.

WNflyer1523 wrote:

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

airlinepeanuts wrote:

If they can do the west coast from HPN I think they'd print cash

With a 6500' foot runway I assume that would be a challenge, right?

Not the only challenge there. NIMBY's wouldn't allow it

How would NIMBYs prevent it?

JoseSalazar wrote:

WNflyer1523 wrote:

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

With a 6500' foot runway I assume that would be a challenge, right?

Not the only challenge there. NIMBY's wouldn't allow it

How would NIMBYs prevent it?

The NIMBY's at HPN are some of the worst in the country. They won't let the terminal expand to fit more people (not more flights, more people as the waiting area is very cramped), they have websites, groups etc. to stop expansion/more flights. The area surrounding HPN is some of the richest in the country, so they do everything in their power to stop expansion. In the past they've filed lawsuits, etc.

I think NIMBYS would like a non-stop west coast on a smaller jet. Who knows there though lots of $$$$$ and influence.

WNflyer1523 wrote:

JoseSalazar wrote:

WNflyer1523 wrote:

Not the only challenge there. NIMBY's wouldn't allow it

How would NIMBYs prevent it?

The NIMBY's at HPN are some of the worst in the country. They won't let the terminal expand to fit more people (not more flights, more people as the waiting area is very cramped), they have websites, groups etc. to stop expansion/more flights. The area surrounding HPN is some of the richest in the country, so they do everything in their power to stop expansion. In the past they've filed lawsuits, etc.

I’m very familiar with HPN, I just don’t think NIMBYs can prevent where a flight goes if Breeze ends up at HPN. In fact, the NIMBYs might like the addition of a quiet A220 if it was sold as new, nice, eco friendly and quiet service to the west coast, quieter and more eco friendly than CRJ/E190/320/Biz jets that currently fly there. That said, back to the original point, I think B6 A220 service from HPN to LAX/SFO is a lot more likely than breeze. Or at least I hope so.

JoseSalazar wrote:

WNflyer1523 wrote:

JoseSalazar wrote:

How would NIMBYs prevent it?

The NIMBY's at HPN are some of the worst in the country. They won't let the terminal expand to fit more people (not more flights, more people as the waiting area is very cramped), they have websites, groups etc. to stop expansion/more flights. The area surrounding HPN is some of the richest in the country, so they do everything in their power to stop expansion. In the past they've filed lawsuits, etc.

I’m very familiar with HPN, I just don’t think NIMBYs can prevent where a flight goes if Breeze ends up at HPN. In fact, the NIMBYs might like the addition of a quiet A220 if it was sold as new, nice, eco friendly and quiet service to the west coast, quieter and more eco friendly than CRJ/E190/320/Biz jets that currently fly there. That said, back to the original point, I think B6 A220 service from HPN to LAX/SFO is a lot more likely than breeze. Or at least I hope so.

I hope you're right. I think that would be great flight, and if it was marketed as quieter and eco-friendly like you said it might have a chance of success with them. Like others have said the flight would make big bucks

These cities are far from being classified as underserved. I think DL will respond very quickly as many are southern cities.

airlineworker wrote:

These cities are far from being classified as underserved. I think DL will respond very quickly as many are southern cities.

Yes, arguably not classified as underserved overall as a market, but there’s loads of potential routes from each with no nonstop competition.

You really think DL will care if Breeze adds GSO-MCO? Or CAE-RSW? I can’t see why they would.

FLYKTPA wrote:

airlineworker wrote:

These cities are far from being classified as underserved. I think DL will respond very quickly as many are southern cities.

Yes, arguably not classified as underserved overall as a market, but there’s loads of potential routes from each with no nonstop competition.

You really think DL will care if Breeze adds GSO-MCO? Or CAE-RSW? I can’t see why they would.

It’s tough to say... ATL is the primordial fortress connecting the SE and SE to Florida... I could see DL seeing Breeze as somewhat of a longer term threat to that strategy if they get a foothold.

It also seems like Breeze is going to be adding more than just routes to Florida - BNA and MSY seem to be in the mix. Again, all could be seen as long term threats to that SE connection strategy.

As far as DLs response though? Basically couldn’t see them doing anything other than upgauging equipment into places like CAE and GSO. And of course... low low fares

airlinepeanuts wrote:

I think NIMBYS would like a non-stop west coast on a smaller jet. Who knows there though lots of $$$$$ and influence.

They already have it. The difference is the smaller jet leaves when they want it to and they’re the only passengers.


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We have the first route, I wonder when we might see the date of the launch. Personally I think this will be fun to watch. I hope they keep on expanding west, especially into markets like Texas. Will be interesting to see if they stay away from markets where B6 dominates.

Charleston and Tampa underserved? Lol. Suuuure. They need to go to places in the southeast that are truly underserved like Knoxville, Chattanooga, Greenville-Spartanburg, Columbia, Augusta, Greensboro, Birmingham, Mobile, Tallahassee, and Huntsville.

Lilj4425 wrote:

Charleston and Tampa underserved? Lol. Suuuure. They need to go to places in the southeast that are truly underserved like Knoxville, Chattanooga, Greenville-Spartanburg, Columbia, Augusta, Greensboro, Birmingham, Mobile, Tallahassee, and Huntsville.

CHS-TPA is only 2x weekly on an ATR. Qualifies as underserved to me. CHS is also a Breeze base along with TPA, so connecting the bases. Give Breeze a chance people lol. They can’t be everything to we everyone yet.

FLYKTPA wrote:

They can’t be everything to we everyone yet.

With no routes announced officially despite plenty of hints, they can’t really be anything to anyone at the moment.

V/F

VirginFlyer wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

They can’t be everything to we everyone yet.

With no routes announced officially despite plenty of hints, they can’t really be anything to anyone at the moment.

V/F

Does Breeze have a PR firm? It seems like the legs are being chopped out from under them with all the 'unofficial' chatter.

ChrisNH38 wrote:

Does Breeze have a PR firm? It seems like the legs are being chopped out from under them with all the 'unofficial' chatter.

A-net is their PR firm. Is anyone getting paid?

OzarkD9S wrote:

ChrisNH38 wrote:

Does Breeze have a PR firm? It seems like the legs are being chopped out from under them with all the 'unofficial' chatter.

A-net is their PR firm. Is anyone getting paid?

Delta Airlines is their PR firm.

FLYKTPA wrote:

airlineworker wrote:

These cities are far from being classified as underserved. I think DL will respond very quickly as many are southern cities.

Yes, arguably not classified as underserved overall as a market, but there’s loads of potential routes from each with no nonstop competition.

You really think DL will care if Breeze adds GSO-MCO? Or CAE-RSW? I can’t see why they would.

"of course they care....Dl like all carriers lost historic amounts of money in 2020.....they care for every dollar....particularly $ not connecting in ATL. That said....DL is not likely to do much but match fares"

ChrisNH38 wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

They can’t be everything to we everyone yet.

With no routes announced officially despite plenty of hints, they can’t really be anything to anyone at the moment.

V/F

Does Breeze have a PR firm? It seems like the legs are being chopped out from under them with all the 'unofficial' chatter.

OzarkD9S wrote:

ChrisNH38 wrote:

Does Breeze have a PR firm? It seems like the legs are being chopped out from under them with all the 'unofficial' chatter.

A-net is their PR firm. Is anyone getting paid?

Lol, really not sure what all the hype & speculation is about, these flights are a couple times a week, and most airports will only get maybe a few routes to begin with.

This thread has 17 pages, and they haven't even sold any tickets yet. Avelo didn't get nearly this much attention, but I guess Neeleman is just more well known than Levy.....

Lilj4425 wrote:

Charleston and Tampa underserved? Lol. Suuuure. They need to go to places in the southeast that are truly underserved like Knoxville, Chattanooga, Greenville-Spartanburg, Columbia, Augusta, Greensboro, Birmingham, Mobile, Tallahassee, and Huntsville.

"would add (on a selective or general basis): SDF, MEM, LEX, TRI, RIC, ORF

Lilj4425 wrote:

Charleston and Tampa underserved? Lol. Suuuure. They need to go to places in the southeast that are truly underserved like Knoxville, Chattanooga, Greenville-Spartanburg, Columbia, Augusta, Greensboro, Birmingham, Mobile, Tallahassee, and Huntsville.

And several of these have several GAT open positions for hire. We “know” that GAT has contracts for some locations for an unknown airline.

OzarkD9S wrote:

ChrisNH38 wrote:

Does Breeze have a PR firm? It seems like the legs are being chopped out from under them with all the 'unofficial' chatter.

A-net is their PR firm. Is anyone getting paid?

Post of the week material right there.

Wonder if they push DAB,PIE(st Pete airport),PGD(punta gorda). They could really take DAB to another level. Every other dl/aa/ua always start then stop, and DAB is willing to pony up cash for the right airline. With the e190 you could do east coast short haul.

hiflyeras wrote:

Lpbri wrote:

Has Breeze announced any new routes yet?

At this point I’ve pretty much lost interest.

Apparently not since you looked at this thread and even made a reply. Strange way of showing lost interest.

Bluegrass60 wrote:

Lilj4425 wrote:

Charleston and Tampa underserved? Lol. Suuuure. They need to go to places in the southeast that are truly underserved like Knoxville, Chattanooga, Greenville-Spartanburg, Columbia, Augusta, Greensboro, Birmingham, Mobile, Tallahassee, and Huntsville.

"would add (on a selective or general basis): SDF, MEM, LEX, TRI, RIC, ORF

I still think this airline and business plan screams DAY.

Just to be clear, Breeze has an air carrier certificate.

https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/f ... 58.article

Lightsaber

The NIMBY's at HPN are some of the worst in the country. They won't let the terminal expand to fit more people (not more flights, more people as the waiting area is very cramped), they have websites, groups etc. to stop expansion/more flights. The area surrounding HPN is some of the richest in the country, so they do everything in their power to stop expansion. In the past they've filed lawsuits, etc.[/quote]

I’m very familiar with HPN, I just don’t think NIMBYs can prevent where a flight goes if Breeze ends up at HPN. In fact, the NIMBYs might like the addition of a quiet A220 if it was sold as new, nice, eco friendly and quiet service to the west coast, quieter and more eco friendly than CRJ/E190/320/Biz jets that currently fly there. That said, back to the original point, I think B6 A220 service from HPN to LAX/SFO is a lot more likely than breeze. Or at least I hope so.[/quote]

You are quite right about HPN, I'm also very familiar. I will use SWF, HPN, or BDL (less preferred) over LGA , JFK or EWR whenever possible. The NIMBY's here will not allow runway expansion. They have always opposed bigger jets. It is one of the reasons WN dumped it during the Air Tran takeover as AT used 717's. The guiding rule at WN is a cap on passengers that can depart every 30 minutes. It is 240 arrivals and departures. They have 4 gates and a midnight to 6am Curfew. The last article I could find they tried to tweak the rules, but no further updates, and I haven't seen any expansions.
This link explains it pretty well.
https://www.lohud.com/story/news/invest ... /82631862/

I could see SFO/LAX and even LAS , seasonal to DEN but I'm not sur ewhat hours of the day they could squeeze these flights in. They have some pretty heavy short range service to all of the hubs that belong to Majors, then later morning B6 has numerous Florida flights. I'm sure there is time somewhere in the day a few days a week. If they do go there, I'd expect Florida cities. The part of the country EVERYONE has friends or family there, scattered on both coasts now, so I can see them flying into DAB, PIE, SFB, St. Augustine. B6 covers MCO, FLL, TPA

I think some are expecting too much from a new airline. Catchy name but slow on the info dispensing. Frontier, Allegiant and others are in a position to invade most routes. So far I am not impressed with the Breeze business model.

airlineworker wrote:

I think some are expecting too much from a new airline. Catchy name but slow on the info dispensing. Frontier, Allegiant and others are in a position to invade most routes. So far I am not impressed with the Breeze business model.

Invade? Lol. Frontier came and went so fast out of GSP that I don’t even remember them being here in the first place.

If Breeze starts service to either OMA or MKE, I'll give them a try

Another week gone by, still nothing announced. So much for them wanting to fly around Memorial Day.

alohashirts wrote:

Another week gone by, still nothing announced. So much for them wanting to fly around Memorial Day.

Oh ye of little faith.

spinkid wrote:

The NIMBY's at HPN are some of the worst in the country. They won't let the terminal expand to fit more people (not more flights, more people as the waiting area is very cramped), they have websites, groups etc. to stop expansion/more flights. The area surrounding HPN is some of the richest in the country, so they do everything in their power to stop expansion. In the past they've filed lawsuits, etc.

I’m very familiar with HPN, I just don’t think NIMBYs can prevent where a flight goes if Breeze ends up at HPN. In fact, the NIMBYs might like the addition of a quiet A220 if it was sold as new, nice, eco friendly and quiet service to the west coast, quieter and more eco friendly than CRJ/E190/320/Biz jets that currently fly there. That said, back to the original point, I think B6 A220 service from HPN to LAX/SFO is a lot more likely than breeze. Or at least I hope so.

You are quite right about HPN, I'm also very familiar. I will use SWF, HPN, or BDL (less preferred) over LGA , JFK or EWR whenever possible. The NIMBY's here will not allow runway expansion. They have always opposed bigger jets. It is one of the reasons WN dumped it during the Air Tran takeover as AT used 717's. The guiding rule at WN is a cap on passengers that can depart every 30 minutes. It is 240 arrivals and departures. They have 4 gates and a midnight to 6am Curfew. The last article I could find they tried to tweak the rules, but no further updates, and I haven't seen any expansions.
This link explains it pretty well.
https://www.lohud.com/story/news/invest ... /82631862/

I could see SFO/LAX and even LAS , seasonal to DEN but I'm not sur ewhat hours of the day they could squeeze these flights in. They have some pretty heavy short range service to all of the hubs that belong to Majors, then later morning B6 has numerous Florida flights. I'm sure there is time somewhere in the day a few days a week. If they do go there, I'd expect Florida cities. The part of the country EVERYONE has friends or family there, scattered on both coasts now, so I can see them flying into DAB, PIE, SFB, St. Augustine. B6 covers MCO, FLL, TPA[/quote]


Speaking of long distance flights from HPN, Norwegian wanted to serve it over SWF, but due to the rules and short runway they couldn’t.

Please do not post to competing websites. This is your warning.

alohashirts wrote:

airlinepeanuts wrote:

If they can do the west coast from HPN I think they'd print cash

Only if it’s HPN-LAX/SFO. There’s no way anything else would work and even that’s a stretch.

Based on my own analysis the MRTW from HPN at 25C is about 143,000lbs.
That yields a still air distance of 2300nm w/ normal IFR reserves.
Once you account for winds, that likely removes HPN-SFO from the list unless one is willing to accept steep payload restrictions.

mercure1 wrote:

alohashirts wrote:

airlinepeanuts wrote:

If they can do the west coast from HPN I think they'd print cash

Only if it’s HPN-LAX/SFO. There’s no way anything else would work and even that’s a stretch.

Based on my own analysis the MRTW from HPN at 25C is about 143,000lbs.
That yields a still air distance of 2300nm w/ normal IFR reserves.
Once you account for winds, that likely removes HPN-SFO from the list unless one is willing to accept steep payload restrictions.

What's the MTOW on a BZ A220?

alohashirts wrote:

Another week gone by, still nothing announced. So much for them wanting to fly around Memorial Day.

They just got their AOC. Today is a Sunday. I’m hoping for an announcement of service start tomorrow or Tuesday.

airlinepeanuts wrote:

mercure1 wrote:

alohashirts wrote:

Only if it’s HPN-LAX/SFO. There’s no way anything else would work and even that’s a stretch.

Based on my own analysis the MRTW from HPN at 25C is about 143,000lbs.
That yields a still air distance of 2300nm w/ normal IFR reserves.
Once you account for winds, that likely removes HPN-SFO from the list unless one is willing to accept steep payload restrictions.

What's the MTOW on a BZ A220?

roughly 154,000lbs or 69.9 metric tons. To achieve full MTOW you need roughly a 7500ft runway at 25C at SL, assuming no crazy rwy slope or close-in obstacle issues.

lightsaber wrote:

Please do not post to competing websites. This is your warning.

What is an example of a competing website?

JoseSalazar wrote:

WNflyer1523 wrote:

JoseSalazar wrote:

How would NIMBYs prevent it?

The NIMBY's at HPN are some of the worst in the country. They won't let the terminal expand to fit more people (not more flights, more people as the waiting area is very cramped), they have websites, groups etc. to stop expansion/more flights. The area surrounding HPN is some of the richest in the country, so they do everything in their power to stop expansion. In the past they've filed lawsuits, etc.

I’m very familiar with HPN, I just don’t think NIMBYs can prevent where a flight goes if Breeze ends up at HPN. In fact, the NIMBYs might like the addition of a quiet A220 if it was sold as new, nice, eco friendly and quiet service to the west coast, quieter and more eco friendly than CRJ/E190/320/Biz jets that currently fly there. That said, back to the original point, I think B6 A220 service from HPN to LAX/SFO is a lot more likely than breeze. Or at least I hope so.

Having dealt with HPN NIMBYs over the years, I'd add that they have no idea how aviation works. You can market the A220 as a quieter, eco-friendly solution, but when they hear that those flights are going to LAX they'll be up in arms whining about the "extra thrust needed to go that far" or "Airbus = big and noisy airplane." The terminal capacity limit will continue to be an issue for airlines, but meanwhile the bizjets operate unhindered. There's a fear around here that HPN will become "LaGuardia North," which means airlines are public enemy no. 1 even though bizjets can be just as big and loud.

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

airlinepeanuts wrote:

If they can do the west coast from HPN I think they'd print cash

With a 6500' foot runway I assume that would be a challenge, right?

There was a thread on here a few months ago where a B6 pilot said he's had to TOGA A320s from HPN to Florida on hot days. I'd imagine the A220 would perform a lot better though, especially when it isn't 90 degrees out.

*Edited to correct spelling*

N965UW wrote:

Having dealt with HPN NIMBYs over the years, I'd add that they have no idea how aviation works. You can market the A220 as a quieter, eco-friendly solution, but when they hear that those flights are going to LAX they'll be up in arms whining about the "extra thrust needed to go that far" or "Airbus = big and noisy airplane." The terminal capacity limit will continue to be an issue for airlines, but meanwhile the bizjets operate unhindered. There's a fear around here that HPN will become "LaGuardia North," which means airlines are public enemy no. 1 even though bizjets can be just as big and loud.

Is there a NIMBY handbook or something, because my local Trenton (TTN) Nimby's compare it to LaGuardia South. LOL. The proposal is for a terminal with 4 gates at TTN, should I have them come on here and explain to everybody the secret of how they can operate out of 4 gates the flights LGA does with 86?? I knew the port authority was a bit bloated and wasteful but that would be amazing.