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msycajun
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:13 am

SunsetLimited wrote:
3 of the E90s are going to be based in MSY.

Looks like there will be at least one 195 doing MSY-RIC/CAK/CMH/SDF and the rest on 190s
 
Dominion301
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:10 am

bigb wrote:
Rookinla wrote:
WHAT ABOUT PHF, SBY OR ORH ??? thoes airports are underserved we need BREEZE any chance ??


Based on the likelihood of an ORF focus city, PHF probably isn’t going to happen anytime soon. ORH just got B6 back. Other airlines have not been successful there so it won’t be high on the list of priorities. SBY isn’t going to happen. AA is probably all that SBY will get in the foreseeable future. Unfortunately I don’t see how two airlines would make money flying in such a limited market.


PHF doesn’t need service...... ORF and RIC covers the market finely.[/quote]

Maybe Avelo will pick PHF as a base down the road.
 
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Metrocard
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:07 am

yyztpa wrote:
yyztpa2 wrote:
georgiabill wrote:
I wonder as their fleet grows would they do a WN maneuver and add MHT to serve communities north of Boston like they are using PVD to cover communities south of Boston?

They are shown with 8 E190s available but their flying to date is only with the 3 E195s.

Folowing up on my earlier message, when and where are Breeze intending to use the E190s? That's a considerable fleet sitting idle.


MSY<->CHS and MSY<->RIC are scheduled with E190s AFAIK.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:53 am

georgiabill wrote:
I wonder as their fleet grows would they do a WN maneuver and add MHT to serve communities north of Boston like they are using PVD to cover communities south of Boston?


I know that once more aircraft enter the Breeze fleet, more dots in New England will surely be added. I would have to believe that MHT-PWM are the ones they’d choose between. MHT, of course, is less seasonal than PWM. It also presents more of a ‘greenfield’ opportunity for them because PWM has attracted a really good mix of airlines and routes that Breeze would need to dance around.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:59 am

Rookinla wrote:
In fact, here’s a specific article quoting a Breeze spokesman saying that ORH is not even in the plans…

https://amp.telegram.com/amp/7520504002

I am not saying that they are lying, but it can always be a fake out. No airline ever wants to tip their hand.
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:34 pm

Breeze dealing with probably it's biggest operational hurdle since launch. TPA closing at 5pm today until 10am 7/7 due to Tropical Storm Elsa. Will also probably affect CHS a bit too.
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:43 pm

Breeze website has Tropical Weather Update posted in re TPA "No flights cancelled at this time"....cancellations allowed without fees...7/8/2021 are next scheduled departures from TPA
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:55 pm

Looks like they are moving the planes from TPA to CWF and CHS
 
PDX88
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:44 pm

BTVB6Flyer wrote:
Breeze dealing with probably it's biggest operational hurdle since launch. TPA closing at 5pm today until 10am 7/7 due to Tropical Storm Elsa. Will also probably affect CHS a bit too.


Luckily Breeze doesn’t operate any scheduled flights on Tuesdays and Wednesdays so there shouldn’t be any cancellations if that timeline stays true.
 
altairF28
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:08 pm

PDX88 wrote:
BTVB6Flyer wrote:
Breeze dealing with probably it's biggest operational hurdle since launch. TPA closing at 5pm today until 10am 7/7 due to Tropical Storm Elsa. Will also probably affect CHS a bit too.


Luckily Breeze doesn’t operate any scheduled flights on Tuesdays and Wednesdays so there shouldn’t be any cancellations if that timeline stays true.

And there weren't. All five CHS inaugurals on 7/8-RIC, CAK, PIT, CMH (flown with the same a/c and the first flights to RIC and PIT) and MSY (flown with the a/c that did CHS-SDF and CHS-BDL and the first service to MSY) had long delays due to Elsa, which was unavoidable but was an unfortunate bad look for the three new cities.
 
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Metrocard
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:39 am

altairF28 wrote:
MSY (flown with the a/c that did CHS-SDF and CHS-BDL and the first service to MSY) had long delays due to Elsa, which was unavoidable but was an unfortunate bad look for the three new cities.


I understand the first flight being delayed because of the storm but it also appears that every single flight from CHS to MSY since then has arrived an our or so late since then with the return also being delayed by an hour or two.
 
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Metrocard
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:48 pm

At least one of the inaugural runs was cancelled today and they have been dealing with system wide delays of 1+ hr all day. Not the best start.
 
krsw757
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:45 pm

Pretty nasty weather extending from Alabama to Charleston, probably has a lot to do with it.
 
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Metrocard
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:05 pm

krsw757 wrote:
Pretty nasty weather extending from Alabama to Charleston, probably has a lot to do with it.


Apparently they had MX issues at CHS this AM that cascaded into delays across the board. Not sure about the canceled flight out of Tulsa.
 
NolaMD88fan
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:22 pm

Breeze action at MSY today. Great to see the A gates getting some use. Photo courtesy of MSY facebook account.

Image
 
caribbeanSwag
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:27 pm

Is it just me, or is Breeze’s marketing gimmick of “We are more of a tech company that happens to fly airplanes” the worst marketing gimmick of all time? Because you have an app to buy tickets, you are now a tech company? So like every airline?
 
kwp302
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:03 am

caribbeanSwag wrote:
Is it just me, or is Breeze’s marketing gimmick of “We are more of a tech company that happens to fly airplanes” the worst marketing gimmick of all time? Because you have an app to buy tickets, you are now a tech company? So like every airline?

I agree this is strange. Perhaps if they had onboard WiFi IFE that worked with a snazzy app? Other than not having a phone number, there’s not much they do different than all the other airlines tech-wise
 
Flflyer83
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:02 am

Wonder how long they’re going to run the empty plane RIC-CHS and RIC-MSY? Not many people on those… eeeek.
 
kwp302
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:48 am

Tonight’s SDF-MSY (MX309) flight is delayed…14h10m. Yikes. Now scheduled to depart at 12:15p on Saturday instead of 10:05p Friday.
 
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Polot
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:05 am

kwp302 wrote:
caribbeanSwag wrote:
Is it just me, or is Breeze’s marketing gimmick of “We are more of a tech company that happens to fly airplanes” the worst marketing gimmick of all time? Because you have an app to buy tickets, you are now a tech company? So like every airline?

I agree this is strange. Perhaps if they had onboard WiFi IFE that worked with a snazzy app? Other than not having a phone number, there’s not much they do different than all the other airlines tech-wise

I think it’s a great pitch for potential investors. From a customer point of view though yes, for the vast majority of the customers Breeze doesn’t really do anything different than what is is available from all the other US majors (from a tech standpoint), especially when things are going smoothly which I would hope is the case most of the time.
 
ahj2000
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:24 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
Wonder how long they’re going to run the empty plane RIC-CHS and RIC-MSY? Not many people on those… eeeek.

That bad? How’s RIC-TPA looking?
 
hooforce
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:40 am

ahj2000 wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
Wonder how long they’re going to run the empty plane RIC-CHS and RIC-MSY? Not many people on those… eeeek.

That bad? How’s RIC-TPA looking?


From what I’ve seen the RIC-TPA load factors look strong. RIC-MSY isn’t THAT bad. The flights aren’t filling up, but the planes aren’t empty either. I’d say they appear to be half to 3/4 full. The route I’m worried about most is the route between RIC and CHS…those flights appear to have been pretty empty. Yikes!
 
flightsimer
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:56 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
Wonder how long they’re going to run the empty plane RIC-CHS and RIC-MSY? Not many people on those… eeeek.

And what are you going off of to claim they are empty? Because they are anything but.
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:05 pm

kwp302 wrote:
Tonight’s SDF-MSY (MX309) flight is delayed…14h10m. Yikes. Now scheduled to depart at 12:15p on Saturday instead of 10:05p Friday.


Nice! :shakehead:

And I presume they aren't paying for a hotel room either, are they?
 
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Metrocard
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:06 pm

kwp302 wrote:
Tonight’s SDF-MSY (MX309) flight is delayed…14h10m. Yikes. Now scheduled to depart at 12:15p on Saturday instead of 10:05p Friday.


Sadly that seems to be par for the course. Took my first Breeze flight last night and as expected it was delayed quite a bit, arriving around 1 AM. Not really a good thing for people who are flying into smaller cities and depending on ride share or rental car availability. Also we sat at the gate for felt like 30 minutes after the door had been closed with no explanation. I enjoyed the flight itself but man they left a lot to be desired in every other aspect.
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:14 pm

hooforce wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
Wonder how long they’re going to run the empty plane RIC-CHS and RIC-MSY? Not many people on those… eeeek.

That bad? How’s RIC-TPA looking?


From what I’ve seen the RIC-TPA load factors look strong. RIC-MSY isn’t THAT bad. The flights aren’t filling up, but the planes aren’t empty either. I’d say they appear to be half to 3/4 full. The route I’m worried about most is the route between RIC and CHS…those flights appear to have been pretty empty. Yikes!


flightsimer wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
Wonder how long they’re going to run the empty plane RIC-CHS and RIC-MSY? Not many people on those… eeeek.

And what are you going off of to claim they are empty? Because they are anything but.


Even 3/4 full is probably not enough, if it is that high. Anecdotal evidence from other posters suggest they're struggling to get over 50% on some routes. Given the low fares, you need LF to hit the 90s to make money under a ULCC business model.

They picked too many routes with competition to start IMO.

But I guess we'll see how it all pans out.
 
airlinepeanuts
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:38 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
hooforce wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
That bad? How’s RIC-TPA looking?


From what I’ve seen the RIC-TPA load factors look strong. RIC-MSY isn’t THAT bad. The flights aren’t filling up, but the planes aren’t empty either. I’d say they appear to be half to 3/4 full. The route I’m worried about most is the route between RIC and CHS…those flights appear to have been pretty empty. Yikes!


flightsimer wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
Wonder how long they’re going to run the empty plane RIC-CHS and RIC-MSY? Not many people on those… eeeek.

And what are you going off of to claim they are empty? Because they are anything but.


Even 3/4 full is probably not enough, if it is that high. Anecdotal evidence from other posters suggest they're struggling to get over 50% on some routes. Given the low fares, you need LF to hit the 90s to make money under a ULCC business model.

They picked too many routes with competition to start IMO.

But I guess we'll see how it all pans out.


Their E190s they got very cheap and their operating costs are low, based on the short stage length on a lot of the routes, I’d guess they can break even at 50% on a lot of the routes.
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:56 pm

airlinepeanuts wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:

Even 3/4 full is probably not enough, if it is that high. Anecdotal evidence from other posters suggest they're struggling to get over 50% on some routes. Given the low fares, you need LF to hit the 90s to make money under a ULCC business model.

They picked too many routes with competition to start IMO.

But I guess we'll see how it all pans out.


Their E190s they got very cheap and their operating costs are low, based on the short stage length on a lot of the routes, I’d guess they can break even at 50% on a lot of the routes.


Yeah, ok. There is that.

And they've received incentives which will bring the cost down even further. At least in the short to medium term. Every little helps! :biggrin:

50% LF breakeven sounds a bit low though, no?
 
msycajun
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:37 pm

It appears to me that they are not too concerned with filling up the planes based on the fares I am seeing out of MSY. Most of the routes are not cheap considering they are mostly driving markets. I imagine they'd rather have fewer passengers to deal with while the kinks are worked out.
 
Flflyer83
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:39 pm

flightsimer wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
Wonder how long they’re going to run the empty plane RIC-CHS and RIC-MSY? Not many people on those… eeeek.

And what are you going off of to claim they are empty? Because they are anything but.


Quite literally looking at them. How about yourself? A cheerleader from afar or so optimistic that an empty glass is still half full?
 
B6JFKH81
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:43 pm

airlinepeanuts wrote:
Their E190s they got very cheap and their operating costs are low, based on the short stage length on a lot of the routes, I’d guess they can break even at 50% on a lot of the routes.


I don't know if you ever worked the E190, but it is not a cheap aircraft to operate. It is a maintenance hog whose components are beyond expensive. Wait until they need to put a plane into heavy check and work the wing cracking and pylon cracking problems...talk about expensive repairs requiring a lot of down time. When B6 was operating flights like JFK-CHS and BNA (also pretty short routes) in the early days of the E190 (so like 2006/2007 start dates), they flew with fairly cheap fares, only 2 flight attendants as there were only 100 seats, etc....when B6 pulled out of those routes it was mentioned that they needed something 110 customers paying the asking fares to BREAK EVEN on those flights. Don't get me wrong, I still like flying on the E190 as a passenger (when it is behaving, of course LOL), but I am glad I rarely see that plane anymore in the hangar environment. Short flights also rapidly builds cycles on the aircraft, gear, engines, etc., which can cause pre-mature wear on these components and lead to change-outs earlier than the normal amount of flight hours. Just my 2 cents.
 
hooforce
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:38 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
Wonder how long they’re going to run the empty plane RIC-CHS and RIC-MSY? Not many people on those… eeeek.

And what are you going off of to claim they are empty? Because they are anything but.


Quite literally looking at them. How about yourself? A cheerleader from afar or so optimistic that an empty glass is still half full?


I’m just curious what you are looking at to know what the real LFs are for these routes?
 
flightsimer
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:14 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
Wonder how long they’re going to run the empty plane RIC-CHS and RIC-MSY? Not many people on those… eeeek.

And what are you going off of to claim they are empty? Because they are anything but.


Quite literally looking at them. How about yourself? A cheerleader from afar or so optimistic that an empty glass is still half full?

Actually I know exactly how many people are on every flight every day we fly…
Last edited by flightsimer on Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
flightsimer
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:18 am

B6JFKH81 wrote:
airlinepeanuts wrote:
Their E190s they got very cheap and their operating costs are low, based on the short stage length on a lot of the routes, I’d guess they can break even at 50% on a lot of the routes.


I don't know if you ever worked the E190, but it is not a cheap aircraft to operate. It is a maintenance hog whose components are beyond expensive. Wait until they need to put a plane into heavy check and work the wing cracking and pylon cracking problems...talk about expensive repairs requiring a lot of down time. When B6 was operating flights like JFK-CHS and BNA (also pretty short routes) in the early days of the E190 (so like 2006/2007 start dates), they flew with fairly cheap fares, only 2 flight attendants as there were only 100 seats, etc....when B6 pulled out of those routes it was mentioned that they needed something 110 customers paying the asking fares to BREAK EVEN on those flights. Don't get me wrong, I still like flying on the E190 as a passenger (when it is behaving, of course LOL), but I am glad I rarely see that plane anymore in the hangar environment. Short flights also rapidly builds cycles on the aircraft, gear, engines, etc., which can cause pre-mature wear on these components and lead to change-outs earlier than the normal amount of flight hours. Just my 2 cents.
Your comparing the costs of a brand new and immature Fleet type and an airline that was paying top dollar rates either in Financing or lease rates for those brand new planes with an airline that has leased E190/195’s that have matured and are acquired at end of life lease rates.

These planes are beyond just cheap, they and unbelievably cheap.
 
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Metrocard
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:32 am

I’m curious to see how the lack of a customer service line will work itself out unless they get these early kinks worked out fairly soon. When you have 50-100 people at a gate upset and needing immediate assistance that ground staff aren’t prepared to handle it suddenly becomes clear that the idea of waiting passengers wait an email response or downloading Facebook in order to chat with what may be a bot is truly ineffective.

Flying MSY-CHS, if I had to eyeball it I would say that the plane was either right at or just under half full. The inbound flight from CHS appeared to be closer to ¾ full. All in all, the flight itself was nice. It reminded me of the early days of JetBlue, though Idk where the Hi-Liter yellow and orange seats fit in the scheme of the “all blue everything” marketing.
 
ATLgaUSA
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:48 am

Metrocard wrote:
I’m curious to see how the lack of a customer service line will work itself out unless they get these early kinks worked out fairly soon. When you have 50-100 people at a gate upset and needing immediate assistance that ground staff aren’t prepared to handle it suddenly becomes clear that the idea of waiting passengers wait an email response or downloading Facebook in order to chat with what may be a bot is truly ineffective.

Flying MSY-CHS, if I had to eyeball it I would say that the plane was either right at or just under half full. The inbound flight from CHS appeared to be closer to ¾ full. All in all, the flight itself was nice. It reminded me of the early days of JetBlue, though Idk where the Hi-Liter yellow and orange seats fit in the scheme of the “all blue everything” marketing.

Have you tried to call the 800 number for any of the majors lately? 2 hour wait at a minimum. They might as well not have telephone customer service either.
 
flightsimer
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:55 am

Metrocard wrote:
I’m curious to see how the lack of a customer service line will work itself out unless they get these early kinks worked out fairly soon. When you have 50-100 people at a gate upset and needing immediate assistance that ground staff aren’t prepared to handle it suddenly becomes clear that the idea of waiting passengers wait an email response or downloading Facebook in order to chat with what may be a bot is truly ineffective.

Flying MSY-CHS, if I had to eyeball it I would say that the plane was either right at or just under half full. The inbound flight from CHS appeared to be closer to ¾ full. All in all, the flight itself was nice. It reminded me of the early days of JetBlue, though Idk where the Hi-Liter yellow and orange seats fit in the scheme of the “all blue everything” marketing.

The Red doesn’t bother me too much, but yeah the yellow trim on the black seats is horrible and cheap looking. Using the three blues for such a small trim piece would have looked a lot better. Hopefully the A220‘a are different.

So far the guest support has worked as planned. The number of calls made to customers because of them being unable to do it on the app so far has been in the two digit range.
 
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Metrocard
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:05 am

ATLgaUSA wrote:
Have you tried to call the 800 number for any of the majors lately? 2 hour wait at a minimum. They might as well not have telephone customer service either.


Oh, you mean like waiting until 1AM to get a call back from American when you joined the queue at 6PM…. Only for them not to call you back. Yeah I know that struggle too well as of late.

The difference is that, in my personal experience, when issues like these arise at the gate American and Delta have staff on hand (or customer service desk at hubs/focus cities) who can address most of the issues and the infrastructure to automatically rebook most if not all passengers, averting the need for many of them to even try and call. On the other hand at Breeze you have staff who appear to be just as confused as the customers and can only tell people to send an email. Now multiply that multiple flights across multiple stations on multiple days in a row.

I was also stuck at JFK until 3AM (for a flight scheduled to depart at noon) a few years back when Delta’s entire system crashed and they had planes with no crews and crews with no planes at almost every station and it was easier to get an answer.

The contrast between Flight/Cabin Crew and Airport Staff has been like night and day IMO.
Last edited by Metrocard on Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Metrocard
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:14 am

flightsimer wrote:
The Red doesn’t bother me too much, but yeah the yellow trim on the black seats is horrible and cheap looking. Using the three blues for such a small trim piece would have looked a lot better. Hopefully the A220‘a are different.

So far the guest support has worked as planned. The number of calls made to customers because of them being unable to do it on the app so far has been in the two digit range.


Is that color scheme here to stay? I just assumed that the planes were acquired that way and that an interior update would come later or something.

I feel like a lot of people on my flight complained about there not being a number and then begrudgingly went on to email/chat or they just gave up. There were also complaints of not getting responses in the chat after initial auto response, but I can speak in that personally.
 
B6JFKH81
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:44 pm

flightsimer wrote:
B6JFKH81 wrote:
airlinepeanuts wrote:
Their E190s they got very cheap and their operating costs are low, based on the short stage length on a lot of the routes, I’d guess they can break even at 50% on a lot of the routes.


I don't know if you ever worked the E190, but it is not a cheap aircraft to operate. It is a maintenance hog whose components are beyond expensive. Wait until they need to put a plane into heavy check and work the wing cracking and pylon cracking problems...talk about expensive repairs requiring a lot of down time. When B6 was operating flights like JFK-CHS and BNA (also pretty short routes) in the early days of the E190 (so like 2006/2007 start dates), they flew with fairly cheap fares, only 2 flight attendants as there were only 100 seats, etc....when B6 pulled out of those routes it was mentioned that they needed something 110 customers paying the asking fares to BREAK EVEN on those flights. Don't get me wrong, I still like flying on the E190 as a passenger (when it is behaving, of course LOL), but I am glad I rarely see that plane anymore in the hangar environment. Short flights also rapidly builds cycles on the aircraft, gear, engines, etc., which can cause pre-mature wear on these components and lead to change-outs earlier than the normal amount of flight hours. Just my 2 cents.
Your comparing the costs of a brand new and immature Fleet type and an airline that was paying top dollar rates either in Financing or lease rates for those brand new planes with an airline that has leased E190/195’s that have matured and are acquired at end of life lease rates.

These planes are beyond just cheap, they and unbelievably cheap.


I am not talking about acquisition costs (which by the way, B6 received a very nice deal to be be the first customer, albeit not the same as old frames being leased, you are correct). But you are saying their operating costs are low. That is not true, the E190 has an operating cost nearly as high as an A320 if I recall correctly with a lot less seats and very expensive maintenance. That was the point I was trying to make.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:47 pm

flightsimer wrote:
These planes are beyond just cheap, they and unbelievably cheap.


Maybe there are cheap for a very good reason? Everyone else dropped them like a bad habit.
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 557
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:07 pm

flightsimer wrote:
B6JFKH81 wrote:
airlinepeanuts wrote:
Their E190s they got very cheap and their operating costs are low, based on the short stage length on a lot of the routes, I’d guess they can break even at 50% on a lot of the routes.


I don't know if you ever worked the E190, but it is not a cheap aircraft to operate. It is a maintenance hog whose components are beyond expensive. Wait until they need to put a plane into heavy check and work the wing cracking and pylon cracking problems...talk about expensive repairs requiring a lot of down time. When B6 was operating flights like JFK-CHS and BNA (also pretty short routes) in the early days of the E190 (so like 2006/2007 start dates), they flew with fairly cheap fares, only 2 flight attendants as there were only 100 seats, etc....when B6 pulled out of those routes it was mentioned that they needed something 110 customers paying the asking fares to BREAK EVEN on those flights. Don't get me wrong, I still like flying on the E190 as a passenger (when it is behaving, of course LOL), but I am glad I rarely see that plane anymore in the hangar environment. Short flights also rapidly builds cycles on the aircraft, gear, engines, etc., which can cause pre-mature wear on these components and lead to change-outs earlier than the normal amount of flight hours. Just my 2 cents.
Your comparing the costs of a brand new and immature Fleet type and an airline that was paying top dollar rates either in Financing or lease rates for those brand new planes with an airline that has leased E190/195’s that have matured and are acquired at end of life lease rates.

These planes are beyond just cheap, they and unbelievably cheap.

They were unbelievably cheap to acquire/lease. Acquisition costs and operating costs are two different things. Even a “free” plane costs money to operate. Yeah DN basically stole them, and breeze’s overall structural costs are super low, and you guys fly them for basically regional wages which helps lower operating costs, but they still have a pretty bad casm. At 50% full, let’s say that’s 60 people for easier math. Let’s say it’s a 1.5 hr flight. That’s about 8k lbs of gas (1,200 gals). At $2/gal, that’s $2,400 in gas. Divided by 60 pax, that’s $40/person fuel. That’s just fuel. Tack on crew costs, support personnel costs, management personnel costs, land/rent/electricity for buildings/hangars, GSE/contractors, maintenance costs, do you really think DN can break even with a 50% load factor? I have my doubts. That said, I think breeze will be successful, I just don’t think they will be making money overall at 50% LF. If he could make money with only 50-60 people on a plane, he should have made his 190s seat 100 or less. There’s a reason he stuffed in more seats (and why he wanted 195s over 190s)…to spread the high costs out more. In fact I believe it was his COO who told me that. If 50% LF was sustainable I doubt he would have cared about spreading costs with more seats.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:27 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
These planes are beyond just cheap, they and unbelievably cheap.


Maybe there are cheap for a very good reason? Everyone else dropped them like a bad habit.

E190s have high variable costs. So when it was a popular plane, it was pushed out of duty as before the airlines were flying high utilization.

Prices dropped. The pandemic dropped the pricing further. Low enough airlines are picking up E1-190s for low utilization duty. For Breeze, they do not fly on days when fares are low. They fly also at the times people pay more.

Breeze was hard nosed enough to re-negotiate during the downturn and

which made it possible to close an agreement with Nordic on “significantly better terms that the original term sheet signed with Azul for E195 aircraft.”


https://www.airway1.com/breeze-airways- ... 5-leasing/

It was going to work pre-Covid19 at higher pricing (still discounted). Locking in lower pricing during launch helps

Lightsaber
 
Wneast
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:28 am

Who thinks that Breeze will for sure be taking on BOI as one of there first west coast cities? With there pretty good incentives they are offering for targeted routes.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:28 am

Wneast wrote:
Who thinks that Breeze will for sure be taking on BOI as one of there first west coast cities? With there pretty good incentives they are offering for targeted routes.


That seems really far off. I mean, who can say what's going to happen years from now? Breeze may head west but it sounds like they're trying to find a niche in the southeast at the moment and their business model seems to be based on fairly short flights. Unless they take a drastic turn, I think BOI is pretty far off.
 
Wneast
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:32 am

ASFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Who thinks that Breeze will for sure be taking on BOI as one of there first west coast cities? With there pretty good incentives they are offering for targeted routes.


That seems really far off. I mean, who can say what's going to happen years from now? Breeze may head west but it sounds like they're trying to find a niche in the southeast at the moment and their business model seems to be based on fairly short flights. Unless they take a drastic turn, I think BOI is pretty far off.

You think it’s years off why ? They literally said the airbus would be used to launch the west coast and they start delivering in October at one per month. I think your being a little skeptical it’s not going take them years to make it BOI. You know there base on short flights right now because they literally started and they said themselves with the e190 and e195 so they didn’t have to wait for their first a220.
 
Wneast
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:34 am

Wneast wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Who thinks that Breeze will for sure be taking on BOI as one of there first west coast cities? With there pretty good incentives they are offering for targeted routes.


That seems really far off. I mean, who can say what's going to happen years from now? Breeze may head west but it sounds like they're trying to find a niche in the southeast at the moment and their business model seems to be based on fairly short flights. Unless they take a drastic turn, I think BOI is pretty far off.

You think it’s years off why ? They literally said the airbus would be used to launch the west coast and they start delivering in October at one per month. I think your being a little skeptical it’s not going take them years to make it BOI. You know there base on short flights right now because they literally started and they said themselves with the e190 and e195 so they didn’t have to wait for their first a220.
They aren’t going to be short flights for very long idk what your talking about.
 
krsw757
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:22 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:39 am

You asked for opinions, get one, and then blow up when it’s not one you want hear. Well done.

I think they were right. I believe we’ll see them fine tune they’re east coast stuff first before expanding to the west coast.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9890
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:56 am

lightsaber wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
These planes are beyond just cheap, they and unbelievably cheap.


Maybe there are cheap for a very good reason? Everyone else dropped them like a bad habit.

E190s have high variable costs. So when it was a popular plane, it was pushed out of duty as before the airlines were flying high utilization.



Plane acquisition cost - bought or financed - isn't the biggest cost element for a U.S. passenger air carrier. The cheap fuel of early Covid is gone - we're back at 2019 avg price per gallon. Frontier, Allegiant and Spirit certainly don't make money on 50% load factors -- proof is in the margins. And they all have economies of scale that Breeze does not.
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:01 pm

"In October, Breeze plans to begin service from two additional southeastern airports with service primarily to the northeast"...I think this means 2 new cities in the SE. A220 deliveries begin in Oct than 1/mo going forward. Suspect they will be used on NE/MW/SE to FL/SW during the winter months. West Coast service (SFO, SEA...) to SDF, RIC, ORF, PVD, BDL....starts up in Spring 2022 is my guess.

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