Welcome to the Cathay Pacific News and Discussion Thread 2021. Please continue to post your news and your discussion here.

Link to previous thread:

Cathay Pacific News and Discussion thread - 2020

Is it possible to bring over some posts, maybe the last page, from the previous topic to keep some continuity?

patrickw421 wrote:
CX Flyboy wrote:
HK residents can still enter - you cannot be banned from entering your home! However you must quarantine for 21 days.


Apparently they don't think this way. When this was asked in the press conference, the health secretary replied this was consulted with the hk Department of Justice and "we think this is the way to go".
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/ ... 201221.htm


In the hk government coronavirus info website it uses the term all person

Important:

The Government has announced that effective from 0.00am 25 December 2020, all persons who have stayed in the United Kingdom (UK) or South Africa for more than two hours in the past 21 days will not be allowed to board for Hong Kong.

https://www.coronavirus.gov.hk/eng/high ... laces.html

As if Cathay isn’t struggling enough this is like throwing a boat anchor to a man drowning.

There is still the possibility to quote them, exactly as you did.

Will CX bankrupt and collapse in 2021?

I heard from a colleague that CX is transferring and retraining some 777 pilots to cargo 747 ops as the cargo pilots are working at such a high tempo and require additional staffing.

UPlog wrote:

I heard from a colleague that CX is transferring and retraining some 777 pilots to cargo 747 ops as the cargo pilots are working at such a high tempo and require additional staffing.

This process has been ongoing for quite a few months already and there will be a few more transferred soon.

Is CX ever going to resume SEA, IAD & BOS? UA is a monopoly to PEK/NRT/HND right now with KE to ICN. Air China should be coming back soon.

x1234 wrote:

Is CX ever going to resume SEA, IAD & BOS? UA is a monopoly to PEK/NRT/HND right now with KE to ICN. Air China should be coming back soon.

Of the 3 BOS was the longest served and the only one of those cities served with the 77W and F class. So I’m willing to bet BOS comes back, but I’m guessing with an A359 to start.

Anyone know the latest longhaul schedule for CX?

I know LHR is suspended till 11 January(probably be extended) while CDG and FRA only see a couple frequencies weekly also.

If CX doesn't come back to SEA, it's probably cause of YVR's 2x daily CX flights. Easy codeshare thru AS from SEA and PDX and already pre pandemic the SEA route was only 4x weekly with an A359. YVR is served 2x daily with the 777-300ER so lots of capacity just north of SEA.

YYZORD wrote:

If CX doesn't come back to SEA, it's probably cause of YVR's 2x daily CX flights. Easy codeshare thru AS from SEA and PDX and already pre pandemic the SEA route was only 4x weekly with an A359. YVR is served 2x daily with the 777-300ER so lots of capacity just north of SEA.

I think it is more likely that AA launches SEA-HKG, when HKG demand slowly comes back. That would be another destination moved up to SEA from their LAX hub, and they don’t have to compete non-stop with CX.

YYZORD wrote:

If CX doesn't come back to SEA, it's probably cause of YVR's 2x daily CX flights. Easy codeshare thru AS from SEA and PDX and already pre pandemic the SEA route was only 4x weekly with an A359. YVR is served 2x daily with the 777-300ER so lots of capacity just north of SEA.

Isn’t the Asian community larger in Vancouver than in Seattle plus carrying a lot cargo. I could see CX coming back now that Alaska is joining one world alliance and Cathay is in one world. Maybe the two could work out a deal to benefit customers.

CX couldn't even serve SEA daily pre pandemic and yes YVR has a bigger asian community along with more cargo. With AS flying SEA-YVR multiple times everyday, thats easy connections to YVR's two CX flights. Those who prefer the daytime flight can fly during the day and those wanting the night flight can fly that flight depending on preference from YVR as AS connects to both of those CX flights out of YVR.

Delta28L wrote:

YYZORD wrote:

If CX doesn't come back to SEA, it's probably cause of YVR's 2x daily CX flights. Easy codeshare thru AS from SEA and PDX and already pre pandemic the SEA route was only 4x weekly with an A359. YVR is served 2x daily with the 777-300ER so lots of capacity just north of SEA.

Isn’t the Asian community larger in Vancouver than in Seattle plus carrying a lot cargo. I could see CX coming back now that Alaska is joining one world alliance and Cathay is in one world. Maybe the two could work out a deal to benefit customers.

Cathay Pacific has extended the ban on flights from the UK to HKG to the 25th of January

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... ts-britain

Does anyone have a breakdown of the current CX fleet, including any aircraft that transferred from KA? Tail numbers, operation status etc.? Also any routes that CX is taking over would be helpful too. Thanks in advance!

Fuling wrote:

Does anyone have a breakdown of the current CX fleet, including any aircraft that transferred from KA? Tail numbers, operation status etc.? Also any routes that CX is taking over would be helpful too. Thanks in advance!

CX Fleet
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Cat ... acific.htm

KA Fleet
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Dragonair.htm

Fuling wrote:

Does anyone have a breakdown of the current CX fleet, including any aircraft that transferred from KA? Tail numbers, operation status etc.? Also any routes that CX is taking over would be helpful too. Thanks in advance!

They have not announced which tail numbers will transfer to CX and which ones to HKE, and which ones will be returned just yet, although B-HSU came back from ASP recently and will be returned to the leasing company. As for destinations, there is a .pdf file floating around with the list. For the most part the assignments are fairly predictable.

CX Flyboy wrote:

They have not announced which tail numbers will transfer to CX and which ones to HKE, and which ones will be returned just yet, although B-HSU came back from ASP recently and will be returned to the leasing company. As for destinations, there is a .pdf file floating around with the list. For the most part the assignments are fairly predictable.

If it’s the same PDF I have seen in magenta and green I think that is more like an educated guess rather than the plan, some destinations I think are missing, others bits of pieces that have made it to public sources like route applications would indicate some of the guesses have the wrong fill color. The list seems to follow a loose alignment of destinations that are more holiday style destinations to UO, and business destinations as CX.

Cathay will operate LHR - HKG via AMS over the next few days on Jan 13, Jan 15, Jan 18, Jan 19, 2021:

- CX251 HKG 23.00 - 05.00 LHR 06.30 - 08.50 AMS A351

This is in addition to the regular CX271 HKG-AMS A351.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/cx251

Delta28L wrote:

YYZORD wrote:

If CX doesn't come back to SEA, it's probably cause of YVR's 2x daily CX flights. Easy codeshare thru AS from SEA and PDX and already pre pandemic the SEA route was only 4x weekly with an A359. YVR is served 2x daily with the 777-300ER so lots of capacity just north of SEA.

Isn’t the Asian community larger in Vancouver than in Seattle plus carrying a lot cargo. I could see CX coming back now that Alaska is joining one world alliance and Cathay is in one world. Maybe the two could work out a deal to benefit customers.

I feel like YVR and SEA were pretty different markets for CX. YVR has more VFR traffic considering the large diaspora living in Vancouver on top of onward connections across South East Asia, albeit BR is increasingly taking up market share to other South east asian destinations too. SEA I feel like is driven by higher yielding business traffic and hence also why less seats were offered because there is less VFR traffic.

YVR for CX will always be larger than SEA just given the size of the diaspora population. However, from a yield perspective SEA may be higher but YVR is more reliable in sustaining sufficient pax load.

I feel like CX may be more interested in routing people via SFO/LAX for SEA as opposed to YVR. I feel like too that the YVR-SEA flights are small planes meaning less seats are offered on sale to codeshare partner at a cheap pro rata basis when they can be sold for a relatively high price for O&D travel.

factsonly wrote:

Cathay will operate LHR - HKG via AMS over the next few days on Jan 13, Jan 15, Jan 18, Jan 19, 2021:

- CX251 HKG 23.00 - 05.00 LHR 06.30 - 08.50 AMS A351

This is in addition to the regular CX271 HKG-AMS A351.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/cx251

Just to clarify this is a HKG-LHR service since the flight ban from UK to Hong Kong is still in place. However the flight will continue to AMS immediately after the passengers has disembarked in LHR so that the crew can layover there before returning to HKG. Special arrangements has been made so that the crew will not be in contact with the local ground staff during the stop at LHR.

routing passengers thru LAX and SFO adds more travel time, CX already places their codeshare on the SEA-YVR AS flights.

andrew1996 wrote:

Delta28L wrote:

YYZORD wrote:

If CX doesn't come back to SEA, it's probably cause of YVR's 2x daily CX flights. Easy codeshare thru AS from SEA and PDX and already pre pandemic the SEA route was only 4x weekly with an A359. YVR is served 2x daily with the 777-300ER so lots of capacity just north of SEA.

Isn’t the Asian community larger in Vancouver than in Seattle plus carrying a lot cargo. I could see CX coming back now that Alaska is joining one world alliance and Cathay is in one world. Maybe the two could work out a deal to benefit customers.

I feel like YVR and SEA were pretty different markets for CX. YVR has more VFR traffic considering the large diaspora living in Vancouver on top of onward connections across South East Asia, albeit BR is increasingly taking up market share to other South east asian destinations too. SEA I feel like is driven by higher yielding business traffic and hence also why less seats were offered because there is less VFR traffic.

YVR for CX will always be larger than SEA just given the size of the diaspora population. However, from a yield perspective SEA may be higher but YVR is more reliable in sustaining sufficient pax load.

I feel like CX may be more interested in routing people via SFO/LAX for SEA as opposed to YVR. I feel like too that the YVR-SEA flights are small planes meaning less seats are offered on sale to codeshare partner at a cheap pro rata basis when they can be sold for a relatively high price for O&D travel.

If the CX web site is to be believed and trusted, 811/812 to/from Boston shows up in April, with a 77W.

Does anyone know from when Cathay Pacific will resume passenger Kathmandu flights? They have been operating weekly cargo flights on an A330-300 instead of Cathay Dragon for now

I've only recently noticed that an A321neo has already been painted into CX's livery, is there any information on when they will enter service, and on which routes? In an era of low demand I'm somewhat surprised to see it not being used yet.

No official information yet. Originally they were planned to enter service with KA on the CGO (?) route but with KA.
When KA was still in operation a few months back all A320 and A321 aircraft were not in service. I doubt it is CX's strategy to run narrow body ops in response to lower pax demand.
I would guess that running larger A333s is more economical given the superior cargo capacity in the wake of coronavirus. In that sense I would think the A321neo would likely enter service as the adverse effects of the pandemic comes to an end and pax volumes pick up significantly.

This A321NEO would be the first time CX livery is painted on a narrow body since the retirement of the 707.

I dont think they will enter service unless there is travel bubble between hk and mainland china or japan

Aseem747 wrote:

Does anyone know from when Cathay Pacific will resume passenger Kathmandu flights? They have been operating weekly cargo flights on an A330-300 instead of Cathay Dragon for now

I think the limitation like most destinations is the HKG department of health.

MrHMSH wrote:

I've only recently noticed that an A321neo has already been painted into CX's livery, is there any information on when they will enter service, and on which routes? In an era of low demand I'm somewhat surprised to see it not being used yet.

Nothing is set in stone yet, I think more widespread vaccine uptake. The HKG department of health will be the limiting factor. Travels bubbles will need to be in place.

The neo has fantastic range however there are no plans to make use of it.I think all routes would be within 4 hours range of HKG.

zeke wrote:

MrHMSH wrote:

I've only recently noticed that an A321neo has already been painted into CX's livery, is there any information on when they will enter service, and on which routes? In an era of low demand I'm somewhat surprised to see it not being used yet.

Nothing is set in stone yet, I think more widespread vaccine uptake. The HKG department of health will be the limiting factor. Travels bubbles will need to be in place.

The neo has fantastic range however there are no plans to make use of it.I think all routes would be within 4 hours range of HKG.

Maybe HKG-CCU route with A321neo?

Apparently Cathay Pacific will place CX code on its LCC HK Express's flights

For anybody interested, here are some concept images of CX's Boeing 777-9 first class which apparently made the shortlist, seems that CX was also considering a retrofit of its Boeing 777-300ER first class too.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ss-concept

Happy Friday everyone! Check out these shortlisted concepts for my oneworld alliance sister Cathay Pacific's new Boeing 777-9 First Class Suites!

I really hope the actual product comes close to what we are seeing here. What can I say ..

“When you travel well you can focus on what really matters ... Cathay Pacific ... Life Well Travelled”

Sexy Adonis

oneworld revolves around you!

Source: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... PDK_qyO8Jk

none of them provide enough privacy

I like the product actually and the colour scheme! I hope cathay can get back into a position to be able to bring this to market!

chunhimlai wrote:

none of them provide enough privacy

You need to take a second look at the first concept. It has a retractible "blind" that isolates the Suite from the rest of the cabin. Any more privacy than that and you will need a G700.

Sexy Adonis

oneworld revolves around you!

Opus99 wrote:

I like the product actually and the colour scheme! I hope cathay can get back into a position to be able to bring this to market!

They will. For Finance and Services, Hong Kong remains an Alpha city and the demand for this particular product is there for the HKG/LHR and HKG/JFK sectors. So once the B779 is delivered they will have the new First Class cabin.

Sexy Adonis

oneworld revolves around you!

I thought the concept is ugly and impractical. Just a personal opinion, so please do not shoot.

I understand the designer wants to challenge the current 'coffin' style enclosed suite concept and borrowed the Etihad Residence concept a little in one of the concepts they showcased. But I feel the balance between 'privacy' (showing in the 'coffin' style suites which is still the main stream currently) and the 'boldness' in design has not been fine tuned. For the couch design, there is no privacy as your neighbours can see everything. It is too open. Although they mentioned a privacy curtain /screen can be drawing down from the ceiling (would that be like a garage door? seriously?) is just not a practical solution. Then the single aisle residence design...would that pass the aircraft certification process as the B779 is designated as a twin aisle jet. Imagine the paperwork and modification needs to convince the FAA that it is safe to have the front one fifth of the jet as a single aisle. And that just for a handful of plane?

The open couch design might be close to the final design but heavy modification would be needed to address the concern of privacy. The single aisle residence design is a certification process nightmare. I am not saying it is a non-starter. But I doubt CX would spend so much time and money to just to get a handful of B779 certified to facilitate the design changes.

chonetsao wrote:

The single aisle residence design is a certification process nightmare. I am not saying it is a non-starter. But I doubt CX would spend so much time and money to just to get a handful of B779 certified to facilitate the design changes.

Is someone familiar with this? Not saying it's my favorite design idea but both Etihad and Singapore Airlines are doing exactly this for their first class so I just wonder if the cost is really that high. OK both of them are doing it on the upper deck on A380 but the idea is the same, those part with first class is in single aisle while the rest of the aircraft is in twin aisle.

chonetsao wrote:

Although they mentioned a privacy curtain /screen can be drawing down from the ceiling (would that be like a garage door? seriously?) is just not a practical solution.


But I doubt CX would spend so much time and money to just to get a handful of B779 certified to facilitate the design changes.

Its basically the AF first class seat, which has a floor to ceiling curtain for privacy which seems to work quite well, at least in the trip reports that I have read.

However I am skeptical that CX will bring this to market, and certainly not the single aisle format. Post Covid I suspect that F will be viable on even fewer routes. It seems like a lot of expense for a small sub-fleet, and I am not sure if they even need to do it. Will they really be able to charge more $$ for this over the current seat. Seems to me that it would be better to continue to improve the soft product. BA have shown that you do not need the worlds best F if you are the dominant airline in a Alpha city. Those who will pay for F also tend to favor non-stop routes

patrickw421 wrote:

Is someone familiar with this? Not saying it's my favorite design idea but both Etihad and Singapore Airlines are doing exactly this for their first class so I just wonder if the cost is really that high. OK both of them are doing it on the upper deck on A380 but the idea is the same, those part with first class is in single aisle while the rest of the aircraft is in twin aisle.

I can't tell you the exact process. But in the case of Etihad and SQ, their single aisle first class is located between UL1/UR1-UL2/UR2 section. Basically the seats took over the whole section.

Consider the length of B779 and the number of seats CX design team wanted to put in First class (I think a maximum of 6?), my own calculation suggests a 95% chance that there would be business class seats in the L1R1-L2R2 section. That means in the section of aircraft you would have 50%-65% of the length as single aisle and 35-50% of the length as twin aisle. I think that is where the certification nightmare would be. If CX is bold enough to have the whole L1R1-L2R2 section as single aisle, it may reduce the requirement of certification to minimum. But I just do not see CX is able to do that. As premier as CX is, its finance planning is very frugal.

S0Y wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Although they mentioned a privacy curtain /screen can be drawing down from the ceiling (would that be like a garage door? seriously?) is just not a practical solution.


But I doubt CX would spend so much time and money to just to get a handful of B779 certified to facilitate the design changes.

Its basically the AF first class seat, which has a floor to ceiling curtain for privacy which seems to work quite well, at least in the trip reports that I have read.

However I am skeptical that CX will bring this to market, and certainly not the single aisle format. Post Covid I suspect that F will be viable on even fewer routes. It seems like a lot of expense for a small sub-fleet, and I am not sure if they even need to do it. Will they really be able to charge more $$ for this over the current seat. Seems to me that it would be better to continue to improve the soft product. BA have shown that you do not need the worlds best F if you are the dominant airline in a Alpha city. Those who will pay for F also tend to favor non-stop routes

I think you are very correct.

chonetsao wrote:

patrickw421 wrote:

Is someone familiar with this? Not saying it's my favorite design idea but both Etihad and Singapore Airlines are doing exactly this for their first class so I just wonder if the cost is really that high. OK both of them are doing it on the upper deck on A380 but the idea is the same, those part with first class is in single aisle while the rest of the aircraft is in twin aisle.

I can't tell you the exact process. But in the case of Etihad and SQ, their single aisle first class is located between UL1/UR1-UL2/UR2 section. Basically the seats took over the whole section.

Consider the length of B779 and the number of seats CX design team wanted to put in First class (I think a maximum of 6?), my own calculation suggests a 95% chance that there would be business class seats in the L1R1-L2R2 section. That means in the section of aircraft you would have 50%-65% of the length as single aisle and 35-50% of the length as twin aisle. I think that is where the certification nightmare would be. If CX is bold enough to have the whole L1R1-L2R2 section as single aisle, it may reduce the requirement of certification to minimum. But I just do not see CX is able to do that. As premier as CX is, its finance planning is very frugal.

Thanks! That's true that it would require changing the aisle setting in the middle of the section which complicate things.

Cathay Pacific reported in December 2020 it carried 39,989 passengers, down 98.7% yoy.

Says increased travel restrictions measures to have will have a significant impact and forecast a reduction of the passenger capacity of around 60%, and reduction of cargo capacity of around 25%. Cash burn of approximately HK$400 million (US$51m) per month.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... crew-could

Looks weird to see A321 in CX colors


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsrNiuEXMAA ... ame=medium

HNL wrote:

Fuling wrote:

Does anyone have a breakdown of the current CX fleet, including any aircraft that transferred from KA? Tail numbers, operation status etc.? Also any routes that CX is taking over would be helpful too. Thanks in advance!

CX Fleet
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Cat ... acific.htm

KA Fleet
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Dragonair.htm

Sorry, but the KA fleet, is when it was DragonAir. The most recent Cathay Dragon Fleet (renamed from DragonAir) was the following:
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Cathay%20Dragon.htm

Cathay plans a HK6.74billion (US$869 million) bond sale

https://www.scmp.com/business/banking-f ... s-finances

Latest news is that no A320s will join CX, although the planning seems to change on a weekly basis as they're looking into costs.

CX Flyboy wrote:

Latest news is that no A320s will join CX, although the planning seems to change on a weekly basis as they're looking into costs.

The A320 hasn’t been looked at for a while now the investor updates of last year indicated the A320s were being disposed, everything on the CX side is A321neo based, with a maybe on A321s.

See page 21 of this link https://www.cathaypacific.com/content/d ... ing_en.pdf

Planned retirements 2020/21 - 11xA330, 7x77W, 9xA321 and 7xA320 mainly ex KA.