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OscarAlphaKilo
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:13 am

Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:08 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
PSA727 wrote:
OscarAlphaKilo wrote:
Looking at AA's fleet plan over the coming years it seems like there's a gap where a narrow-body aircraft with a lie-flat J product would be. All information so far seems to indicate specific utilization of the A321XLRs on long haul routes, while the A321T has proven itself viable in a very limited number of markets. This still leaves a gap on routes such as BOS-LAX or MIA-LAX where AA is the outlier among their competitors by not offering a premium J product. For now, it can be remedied by either a lack of demand (such as with BOS-LAX) or substitution with wide-bodies (such as with MIA-LAX), but what happens when premium demand returns and business travelers are confronted with a choice between a lie flat seat on United/Delta/JetBlue and an Oasis-configured A321? Could we potentially see an A321 sub-fleet with a standard Y cabin and premium J?

Delta and United operate LAX-BOS and LAX-MIA flights with lie-flat seats??? AA has 50 321XLRs on order. They will have lie-flat J seats. That's more than enough to cover warranted TATL/South American flying as well as specific domestic markets. Also, AA has had widebodies on LAX-MIA for several years now.


They have in the past. UA has anyway, with ex-CO 757s on some frequencies, with the old BF cabin. But they have. Not sure about DL.


Not sure about now, but pre-covid DL was using lie-flat 757s on at least one if not all of their 2-3x daily BOS-LAX frequencies.
 
Detroit313
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Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:31 pm

747fan wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
miaami wrote:
https://sites.google.com/site/newamericanfleet/

Has been updated 2/28/2021


This link was just updated again and it now says that 100% of the 737s have been retrofitted! Could someone confirm?

That is correct. The last one is N981NN and it is currently in work for Oasis mods at INT.


Thank you. Is there any way to know how many 737s have been Kodiaked?
 
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N62NA
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:45 pm

It's really nice to see all 777 on MIA-LAX coming up, though I'm sure as things return to normal, we'll see the standard 321s and 738s slowly added back unfortunately and even worse than before because they'll ALL be in the dreadful "Oasis" configuration.
 
747fan
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:52 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
747fan wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:

This link was just updated again and it now says that 100% of the 737s have been retrofitted! Could someone confirm?

That is correct. The last one is N981NN and it is currently in work for Oasis mods at INT.


Thank you. Is there any way to know how many 737s have been Kodiaked?

I’d say a solid majority of the 737NG’s have been Kodiaked and I believe the former AVOD-equipped aircraft were getting both that and Oasis at the same time, which I’d imagine is the same for the older “Block 1’s” that are in mods or were recently modded. On the other hand very few Maxes have it.
Some of the Oasis 321’s and NEO’s are getting Kodiaked now.
 
747fan
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:56 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
ContinentalEWR wrote:
747fan wrote:
Should also add that some of the original batch of 737's built from 1999-2001 that were stored are back on the line after Oasis mods. N923AN, N924AN, N965AN and N973AN, with several others currently getting retrofitted. Those are in addition to N907AN, which has been flying around since sometime last year when it got retrofitted.


I thought a batch of early 737-800s delivered to AA from 1999 onward were retired (or were to be retired). The number was around 35-40 frames as I recall.

Correct, some have been retired and your number sounds about right.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:19 pm

All currently flying B737 are Oasis but not all that are being converted have been.
The last I heard on Kodiak NGs at about 50% and Max at about 25%.
 
chonetsao
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:25 pm

747fan wrote:
Correct, some have been retired and your number sounds about right.


Any words on the small 48 strong A320 fleet? It was [rumoured] to be retired immediately after the merger.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:10 am

Before Oasis AA wanted to make the seats with a pitch of 29 inches? What was the reasoning the couldn't? Could AA have the A321 at 200 seats instead of 190ceo,196neo? Wouldn't that benefit AA bottom line?
 
PSA727
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:55 am

PHLspecial wrote:
Before Oasis AA wanted to make the seats with a pitch of 29 inches? What was the reasoning the couldn't? Could AA have the A321 at 200 seats instead of 190ceo,196neo? Wouldn't that benefit AA bottom line?


I think the 29-inch seat pitch idea was floated for the 738, not the 321. Also, the door configuration on the 321ceo (as well as the mid-cabin lavatory) makes it more difficult to maximize the cabin space for seating. But let's not forget that the pmAA 321s had 181 seats on them, while the pmUS had 187 (and originally delivered 20 years ago with just 169 seats). They will now both be at 190 (and that's with 4 additional F seats). So, AA is indeed lowering the CASM for their 321s.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
BigPlaneGuy13
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:29 pm

Does anyone here know if the Kodiak mods on the LUS A321 feature mood lighting like we've seen on the 737?
 
B757capt
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:48 pm

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
Does anyone here know if the Kodiak mods on the LUS A321 feature mood lighting like we've seen on the 737?


Yes they do.
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
kbmiflyer
Posts: 315
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:55 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Before Oasis AA wanted to make the seats with a pitch of 29 inches? What was the reasoning the couldn't??


There was a lot of media push-back when they announced that some seats would be 29 inches on the 737-800 So instead, they went to 30 inches and tried to squeeze MCE and First class a little more.
 
anymaninfc
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 7:13 am

Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:57 am

Anyone have information on what is holding up delivery of AAs B787-8s? Of 12 originally forecast to be delivered in 2020, only 3 were delivered. Eight now show close to complete, but only one shows "ready for delivery". Is this simply a Boeing problem with the tail section, or has AA requested hold-up of the deliveries? Will Boeing deliver the remainder of the B787-8s in 2021?
 
BigPlaneGuy13
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:14 pm

Another question about the 321s going in for Kodiak mods. What is the timeline to have them all completed?
 
747fan
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:43 am

BigPlaneGuy13: Not sure about Kodiak but I know the goal is to have all 321's "Oasified" by the end of the year. But NEO's and 321's that already have Oasis are getting it done at a good clip, mostly at PIT it appears. Here's two of them, with LUS 321 N195UW that already has Oasis going into PIT for mods tonight and a NEO N403AN coming out tomorrow morning...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N195UW
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N403AN
 
BigPlaneGuy13
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:30 am

747fan wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13: Not sure about Kodiak but I know the goal is to have all 321's "Oasified" by the end of the year. But NEO's and 321's that already have Oasis are getting it done at a good clip, mostly at PIT it appears. Here's two of them, with LUS 321 N195UW that already has Oasis going into PIT for mods tonight and a NEO N403AN coming out tomorrow morning...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N195UW
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N403AN


I have to say, I’m excited to try a Kodiak 321. I was not a fan of the LUS seat mods. I flew a Kodiak 737 two weeks ago and I am really pleased with the seat functionality. The outlets and USBs are great and the tray tables are sturdy too. And the reaction from other pax was really positive too. Someone asked if we were on a new plane despite our 737 being 7 years old.

I pretty much only fly on routes with the 321 with an occasional 737 in the mix. Excited for a nice and consistent product by 2022!
 
Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:50 am

You should see people's reaction when they see the overhead bins of the Oasis 321. Everyone is shocked by how big they are.

I fly a lot on 321L, 321S and now Oasis 321 and you can tell that the boarding process takes almost 5 to 10 minutes less on a full Oasis 321 just because of those giant bins. There is always space right above your seat so people don't have to go back and forth and try to figure out where to put their bag and it is very easy to place even the biggest bags in the bins. Boarding just flows and with no interruptions. AA's on-time metrics will improve with those retrofits. A significant number of short delays in the past was caused by very slow boardings, especially those older 737 with the tiny bins.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:13 pm

Looks like the MAX has finally made it outside Miami. I saw N338RS on MBJ-DFW today.
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
planecane
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:16 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Looks like the MAX has finally made it outside Miami. I saw N338RS on MBJ-DFW today.


I've seen some prior routes like (if I remember correctly) PHX to DFW. As far as I can tell they all end up returning to MIA.
 
747fan
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:26 pm

planecane wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
Looks like the MAX has finally made it outside Miami. I saw N338RS on MBJ-DFW today.


I've seen some prior routes like (if I remember correctly) PHX to DFW. As far as I can tell they all end up returning to MIA.

I was on one last week from PHX-AUS, which then continued on to DFW and subsequently RON'd in BWI before flying BWI-MIA the next morning. It was N329SL, a December 2020 delivery which does NOT have Kodiak.
They're still based in MIA but as of last week are allowed to be subbed now for 737NG's if necessary.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:32 pm

747fan wrote:
planecane wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
Looks like the MAX has finally made it outside Miami. I saw N338RS on MBJ-DFW today.


I've seen some prior routes like (if I remember correctly) PHX to DFW. As far as I can tell they all end up returning to MIA.

I was on one last week from PHX-AUS, which then continued on to DFW and subsequently RON'd in BWI before flying BWI-MIA the next morning. It was N329SL, a December 2020 delivery which does NOT have Kodiak.
They're still based in MIA but as of last week are allowed to be subbed now for 737NG's if necessary.


Thanks for that info. The total routing today for the MBJ-DFW plane is MIA-MBJ, MBJ-DFW, DFW-MIA.
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
747fan
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:34 pm

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
747fan wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13: Not sure about Kodiak but I know the goal is to have all 321's "Oasified" by the end of the year. But NEO's and 321's that already have Oasis are getting it done at a good clip, mostly at PIT it appears. Here's two of them, with LUS 321 N195UW that already has Oasis going into PIT for mods tonight and a NEO N403AN coming out tomorrow morning...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N195UW
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N403AN


I have to say, I’m excited to try a Kodiak 321. I was not a fan of the LUS seat mods. I flew a Kodiak 737 two weeks ago and I am really pleased with the seat functionality. The outlets and USBs are great and the tray tables are sturdy too. And the reaction from other pax was really positive too. Someone asked if we were on a new plane despite our 737 being 7 years old.

I pretty much only fly on routes with the 321 with an occasional 737 in the mix. Excited for a nice and consistent product by 2022!

I haven't been on a retrofitted 321 yet but have been on several NEO's (none of the ones I've ridden on have Kodiak yet though) and given that their interior is identical to those aforementioned 321's, its a DRAMATIC improvement over the LUS 321 interior. Unlike the pre-2011 737's which are a hodge-podge of the original 737NG sidewalls and the new bins/ceiling, the LUS 321's got new sidewalls which make nearly 20-year old 321's look brand new inside. I believe the Oasis/Kodiak 321's also have the same mood lighting that the NEO's have, so that would easily make passengers on a nearly 20-year old 321 think they're on a much newer plane.
Should also note that there's several retrofitted LAA 321's that have joined the party, most of which are some of the aircraft that were previously ETOPS-certified for Hawaii flying. I haven't been on one so don't know if they have Kodiak yet or if its just Oasis for now.
 
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Rookie87
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:11 am

747fan wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
747fan wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13: Not sure about Kodiak but I know the goal is to have all 321's "Oasified" by the end of the year. But NEO's and 321's that already have Oasis are getting it done at a good clip, mostly at PIT it appears. Here's two of them, with LUS 321 N195UW that already has Oasis going into PIT for mods tonight and a NEO N403AN coming out tomorrow morning...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N195UW
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N403AN


I have to say, I’m excited to try a Kodiak 321. I was not a fan of the LUS seat mods. I flew a Kodiak 737 two weeks ago and I am really pleased with the seat functionality. The outlets and USBs are great and the tray tables are sturdy too. And the reaction from other pax was really positive too. Someone asked if we were on a new plane despite our 737 being 7 years old.

I pretty much only fly on routes with the 321 with an occasional 737 in the mix. Excited for a nice and consistent product by 2022!

I haven't been on a retrofitted 321 yet but have been on several NEO's (none of the ones I've ridden on have Kodiak yet though) and given that their interior is identical to those aforementioned 321's, its a DRAMATIC improvement over the LUS 321 interior. Unlike the pre-2011 737's which are a hodge-podge of the original 737NG sidewalls and the new bins/ceiling, the LUS 321's got new sidewalls which make nearly 20-year old 321's look brand new inside. I believe the Oasis/Kodiak 321's also have the same mood lighting that the NEO's have, so that would easily make passengers on a nearly 20-year old 321 think they're on a much newer plane.
Should also note that there's several retrofitted LAA 321's that have joined the party, most of which are some of the aircraft that were previously ETOPS-certified for Hawaii flying. I haven't been on one so don't know if they have Kodiak yet or if its just Oasis for now.


Kodiak is the improvement to the first class seats from Oasis right? I can’t remember it well enough. Haven’t been on the reconfigured AA 321’s yet but looking forward to it from what I’m reading on here.
 
AA321T
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:38 am

B757capt wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
Does anyone here know if the Kodiak mods on the LUS A321 feature mood lighting like we've seen on the 737?


Yes they do.

The A321neo’s have mood lighting but the Oasis/Kodiak A321’s just have plain white lighting. Curiously, the full spectrum LED strips are installed but they don’t have any colored scenes available for the crew to use.
 
AA321T
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:39 am

Rookie87 wrote:
747fan wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:

I have to say, I’m excited to try a Kodiak 321. I was not a fan of the LUS seat mods. I flew a Kodiak 737 two weeks ago and I am really pleased with the seat functionality. The outlets and USBs are great and the tray tables are sturdy too. And the reaction from other pax was really positive too. Someone asked if we were on a new plane despite our 737 being 7 years old.

I pretty much only fly on routes with the 321 with an occasional 737 in the mix. Excited for a nice and consistent product by 2022!

I haven't been on a retrofitted 321 yet but have been on several NEO's (none of the ones I've ridden on have Kodiak yet though) and given that their interior is identical to those aforementioned 321's, its a DRAMATIC improvement over the LUS 321 interior. Unlike the pre-2011 737's which are a hodge-podge of the original 737NG sidewalls and the new bins/ceiling, the LUS 321's got new sidewalls which make nearly 20-year old 321's look brand new inside. I believe the Oasis/Kodiak 321's also have the same mood lighting that the NEO's have, so that would easily make passengers on a nearly 20-year old 321 think they're on a much newer plane.
Should also note that there's several retrofitted LAA 321's that have joined the party, most of which are some of the aircraft that were previously ETOPS-certified for Hawaii flying. I haven't been on one so don't know if they have Kodiak yet or if its just Oasis for now.


Kodiak is the improvement to the first class seats from Oasis right? I can’t remember it well enough. Haven’t been on the reconfigured AA 321’s yet but looking forward to it from what I’m reading on here.

Improvements to FC and the cabin divider, yes.
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:16 pm

The last AA Max in storage, N313SB, has returned to service.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:43 pm

AA is deferring and converted 5 787-8 deliveries to 787-9s due in 2023, and 14 787-8s due this year will delivered by early 2022 instead.
Additionally 18 737MAX due in 2021/22 deferred to 2023/24.

SEC filing
https://americanairlines.gcs-web.com/node/39021/html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
alasizon
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:41 pm

LAXintl wrote:
AA is deferring and converted 5 787-8 deliveries to 787-9s due in 2023, and 14 787-8s due this year will delivered by early 2022 instead.
Additionally 18 737MAX due in 2021/22 deferred to 2023/24.

SEC filing
https://americanairlines.gcs-web.com/node/39021/html


I get the 787 deferrals, but not sure I get the MAX deferrals. If domestic and Latin America demand continue to stay hot, AA still needs more narrowbodies by end of year, particularly for what could be the Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday travel period from hell (from a demand perspective).
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
jbs2886
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:17 pm

alasizon wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
AA is deferring and converted 5 787-8 deliveries to 787-9s due in 2023, and 14 787-8s due this year will delivered by early 2022 instead.
Additionally 18 737MAX due in 2021/22 deferred to 2023/24.

SEC filing
https://americanairlines.gcs-web.com/node/39021/html


I get the 787 deferrals, but not sure I get the MAX deferrals. If domestic and Latin America demand continue to stay hot, AA still needs more narrowbodies by end of year, particularly for what could be the Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday travel period from hell (from a demand perspective).


Doubtful. Widebodies can cover a lot of flying and I suspect there is substantial slack in the fleets. Moreover, you don't take aircraft for a few days' flying to have them slow for the rest of the time - Thanksgiving/Christmas just isn't enough to acquire aircraft. I also believe Boeing is pushing deliveries to catch up, so it is a win-win.
Last edited by jbs2886 on Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
avi8
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:17 pm

So no more aircraft deliveries this year?
avi8
 
ABEguy
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:22 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
AA is deferring and converted 5 787-8 deliveries to 787-9s due in 2023, and 14 787-8s due this year will delivered by early 2022 instead.
Additionally 18 737MAX due in 2021/22 deferred to 2023/24.

SEC filing
https://americanairlines.gcs-web.com/node/39021/html


I get the 787 deferrals, but not sure I get the MAX deferrals. If domestic and Latin America demand continue to stay hot, AA still needs more narrowbodies by end of year, particularly for what could be the Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday travel period from hell (from a demand perspective).


Doubtful. Widebodies can cover a lot of flying and I suspect there is substantial slack in the fleets.


That’s what I’m thinking too. AA is probably looking at the continued and new lockdowns in EU, looking at the demand to Brazil and Asia, and realizes there’s going to be a lot of idle wide bodies with no where to fly though 2021. Deploy them domestically.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:44 pm

alasizon wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
AA is deferring and converted 5 787-8 deliveries to 787-9s due in 2023, and 14 787-8s due this year will delivered by early 2022 instead.
Additionally 18 737MAX due in 2021/22 deferred to 2023/24.

SEC filing
https://americanairlines.gcs-web.com/node/39021/html


I get the 787 deferrals, but not sure I get the MAX deferrals. If domestic and Latin America demand continue to stay hot, AA still needs more narrowbodies by end of year, particularly for what could be the Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday travel period from hell (from a demand perspective).

What about A321Neos? Is AA taking on anymore of them this year or next?
Remember AA added more seats to the B737 (172 seats), A321 (190 seats), A32Q, (196 seats).
 
alasizon
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:06 pm

ABEguy wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
alasizon wrote:

I get the 787 deferrals, but not sure I get the MAX deferrals. If domestic and Latin America demand continue to stay hot, AA still needs more narrowbodies by end of year, particularly for what could be the Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday travel period from hell (from a demand perspective).


Doubtful. Widebodies can cover a lot of flying and I suspect there is substantial slack in the fleets.


That’s what I’m thinking too. AA is probably looking at the continued and new lockdowns in EU, looking at the demand to Brazil and Asia, and realizes there’s going to be a lot of idle wide bodies with no where to fly though 2021. Deploy them domestically.


The widebodies are already running a lot of domestic/short-haul routes and normally do during the Winter anyhow. I just think they are going to be short about 10-15 narrowbodies for Nov-Dec even after factoring in the widebodies domestically.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
jbs2886
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:08 pm

alasizon wrote:
ABEguy wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Doubtful. Widebodies can cover a lot of flying and I suspect there is substantial slack in the fleets.


That’s what I’m thinking too. AA is probably looking at the continued and new lockdowns in EU, looking at the demand to Brazil and Asia, and realizes there’s going to be a lot of idle wide bodies with no where to fly though 2021. Deploy them domestically.


The widebodies are already running a lot of domestic/short-haul routes and normally do during the Winter anyhow. I just think they are going to be short about 10-15 narrowbodies for Nov-Dec even after factoring in the widebodies domestically.


I still don't think getting 10-15 737s is financially prudent for a few days' flying when they will otherwise be a lot of slack in the fleet. In addition, I think we will just see higher prices.
 
alasizon
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:05 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
ABEguy wrote:

That’s what I’m thinking too. AA is probably looking at the continued and new lockdowns in EU, looking at the demand to Brazil and Asia, and realizes there’s going to be a lot of idle wide bodies with no where to fly though 2021. Deploy them domestically.


The widebodies are already running a lot of domestic/short-haul routes and normally do during the Winter anyhow. I just think they are going to be short about 10-15 narrowbodies for Nov-Dec even after factoring in the widebodies domestically.


I still don't think getting 10-15 737s is financially prudent for a few days' flying when they will otherwise be a lot of slack in the fleet. In addition, I think we will just see higher prices.


I don't think this season is going to be just a few days - in reality it'll be all of November and the second half of December. Personally I believe November 1H will be around 105% 2019 domestic/Latin America levels and Nov 2H and Dec 2H will be around 115% - even factoring in the availability of domestic widebodies (I would expect PHX-DFW/CLT, DFW-CLT/MIA/CUN and MIA-PHL this year to be almost all widebody for the winter) I still see AA being short, particularly if Hawaii's demand keeps up. Keep in mind, the A330s are also gone reducing the number of overall available widebodies.

The reality is nobody truly knows what will be open and what won't be in seven months but I see the need for more narrowbodies this winter for AA (the same is true for WN and UA).
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
anymaninfc
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:06 pm

avi8 wrote:
So no more aircraft deliveries this year?

An A321Neo, N432AN, is nearing delivery.
 
chonetsao
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:13 pm

The conversion of B788 to B789 is interesting. I read it in two possibilities:
1, Less secondary international destinations post Covid.
Before Covid during boom years, AA had been adventurous to fly to some secondary international destinations in Croatia and Italy. B788 has proven to be the right aircraft for the leisure heavy routes. The conversion of 5 B788 would take 2-4 such destinations off the route maps.
2, Accelerated retirement of B772.
B789 is used to replace the current B777-200ER fleet. By convert B788s to B789s and add more B789s early, may suggest 5 B772s could be retired earlier than planned. I just don't see AA adds widebodies for long haul for few years to come, maybe not until 2025. Thus I think one of the good possibilities is that some of the B772s may leave fleet early.

Soon AA will have one of the youngest widebody fleet in the Americas. I wonder if it will help AA in the long run.
 
alasizon
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:29 pm

chonetsao wrote:
The conversion of B788 to B789 is interesting. I read it in two possibilities:
1, Less secondary international destinations post Covid.
Before Covid during boom years, AA had been adventurous to fly to some secondary international destinations in Croatia and Italy. B788 has proven to be the right aircraft for the leisure heavy routes. The conversion of 5 B788 would take 2-4 such destinations off the route maps.
2, Accelerated retirement of B772.
B789 is used to replace the current B777-200ER fleet. By convert B788s to B789s and add more B789s early, may suggest 5 B772s could be retired earlier than planned. I just don't see AA adds widebodies for long haul for few years to come, maybe not until 2025. Thus I think one of the good possibilities is that some of the B772s may leave fleet early.

Soon AA will have one of the youngest widebody fleet in the Americas. I wonder if it will help AA in the long run.


Converting 788s to 789s doesn't erase secondary international destinations in the future - 788s were being used on DFW-FRA/PEK/SCL, LAX-PEK, ORD-LHR/HNL, PHL-AMS/MAN/ZRH plus some hub-hub routes. DFW-FRA/SCL, ORD-LHR/HNL and PHL-AMS can probably all support 789s year-round which frees up 788s for any secondary destinations/routes they choose to run. LAX-PEK also isn't coming back so that frees up 1.5 frames right there.

I see it as AA acknowledging the 789 is the more efficient aircraft for their network overall. AA will have a total of 29 788s available for all the leisure routes/shoulder season they should need.
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LAXintl
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:43 pm

Deferrals are a simple way to reduce CapEx spend. AA is forecast to lose billions this year and as we know they have a huge debt pile.

The deferrals will result in Boeing returning $248mil in pre-delivery payments to AA. Every million counts.
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FSDan
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:18 pm

alasizon wrote:
AA will have a total of 29 788s available for all the leisure routes/shoulder season they should need.


Won't the final total be 37 788s after all on order are received? And 52 789s?
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MIflyer12
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:39 pm

alasizon wrote:
Personally I believe November 1H will be around 105% 2019 domestic/Latin America levels and Nov 2H and Dec 2H will be around 115% - even factoring in the availability of domestic widebodies...


What level of business demand is implicit in that? AA is going to have a ton of widebody slack - it does seasonally, anyway - and lots of narrowbodies not plying so many business frequencies. IMHO, too low yields are a much bigger threat than too few aircraft.
 
ABEguy
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:40 pm

FSDan wrote:
alasizon wrote:
AA will have a total of 29 788s available for all the leisure routes/shoulder season they should need.


Won't the final total be 37 788s after all on order are received? And 52 789s?


I think he meant available this year, taking into account the deferral.
 
alasizon
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:43 pm

FSDan wrote:
alasizon wrote:
AA will have a total of 29 788s available for all the leisure routes/shoulder season they should need.


Won't the final total be 37 788s after all on order are received? And 52 789s?


I apparently can't add but yes.
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alasizon
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:48 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Personally I believe November 1H will be around 105% 2019 domestic/Latin America levels and Nov 2H and Dec 2H will be around 115% - even factoring in the availability of domestic widebodies...


What level of business demand is implicit in that? AA is going to have a ton of widebody slack - it does seasonally, anyway - and lots of narrowbodies not plying so many business frequencies. IMHO, too low yields are a much bigger threat than too few aircraft.


I factored in around 50% of sun-belt business demand and about 30% of NE/Upper Midwest demand - business travel always drops off for the Nov 2H and Dec 2H periods anyhow.
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FLALEFTY
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:53 am

jbs2886 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
ABEguy wrote:

That’s what I’m thinking too. AA is probably looking at the continued and new lockdowns in EU, looking at the demand to Brazil and Asia, and realizes there’s going to be a lot of idle wide bodies with no where to fly though 2021. Deploy them domestically.


The widebodies are already running a lot of domestic/short-haul routes and normally do during the Winter anyhow. I just think they are going to be short about 10-15 narrowbodies for Nov-Dec even after factoring in the widebodies domestically.


I still don't think getting 10-15 737s is financially prudent for a few days' flying when they will otherwise be a lot of slack in the fleet. In addition, I think we will just see higher prices.


AA has 68 B738's currently parked, most of which are 160-seat cabin variants bought between 1999-2001, that could be returned to service. They also have 17 B38M's that have stood down to get the electrical grounding fix. Added to all this are 14 A319's, 1 A320 and 13 A321's now parked that could be reactivated. So I'd say AA still has a fair amount of extra capacity to tap for the Summer season.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/American-Airlines
 
alasizon
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:09 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
alasizon wrote:

The widebodies are already running a lot of domestic/short-haul routes and normally do during the Winter anyhow. I just think they are going to be short about 10-15 narrowbodies for Nov-Dec even after factoring in the widebodies domestically.


I still don't think getting 10-15 737s is financially prudent for a few days' flying when they will otherwise be a lot of slack in the fleet. In addition, I think we will just see higher prices.


AA has 68 B738's currently parked, most of which are 160-seat cabin variants bought between 1999-2001, that could be returned to service. They also have 17 B38M's that have stood down to get the electrical grounding fix. Added to all this are 14 A319's, 1 A320 and 13 A321's now parked that could be reactivated. So I'd say AA still has a fair amount of extra capacity to tap for the Summer season.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/American-Airlines


We were discussing Winter, not Summer.

The 17 MAXes are already supposed to be flying so no, that isn't untapped capacity. Every single aircraft will be returned to service by May 27th, so there won't be stored airplanes any more. The 68 retired 738s are just that, retired and removed from the fleet so unless they unretire them and bring them back to active service they aren't just readily available. They show as removed and inactive from the fleet.
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cathay747
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:14 pm

alasizon wrote:
The 68 retired 738s are just that, retired and removed from the fleet so unless they unretire them and bring them back to active service they aren't just readily available. They show as removed and inactive from the fleet.


But I wonder if any of those 68 could be "unretired" (love your term there LOL) for a short-term capacity boost if truly needed? I realize there could be some already parted-out to some degree, and there might even be ownership issues by now, but it seems like a possibility. Of course, the cost to do this might not be worth it if they're only talking about a few months of usage.

Or am I crazy? (which is certainly possible)
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Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:36 pm

There is no way now that AA is done with the 737 retrofits that they will bring back planes with the old configuration that have 12 less seats. It would make no sense and create a mess. They are done with those 737s.
 
danipawa
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:18 pm

How manys B738 retired so far?
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: American Airlines Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:36 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
There is no way now that AA is done with the 737 retrofits that they will bring back planes with the old configuration that have 12 less seats. It would make no sense and create a mess. They are done with those 737s.


Interesting...AA has 12 of the 160-seat B738's in active service, so they must have found a way to make them work for temporary demand bumps. Obviously they will be standardizing their 172-seat (cattle car) configurations for the B738/B38M's for the long run. The B38M is supposed to be replacing those older (1999-2001 vintage) B738's one-for-one. However, due to recent B38M delivery deferrals and the grounding issue that needs inspection and/or repair, it appears that they are moving that re-fleeting program to the right for a year, or two.

alasizon wrote:
The 68 retired 738s are just that, retired and removed from the fleet so unless they unretire them and bring them back to active service they aren't just readily available. They show as removed and inactive from the fleet.


Perhaps this source is inaccurate in this case, but they have done a pretty decent job of keeping tabs of official airline fleet retirements during the pandemic period, so I'll defer to their data. According to Planespotters only 2 B738's have left the fleet and one of those was written off in 2009. The 69 remaining that are parked are located at ROW, or TUL and there have been no indications that the sell off, or scrapping of these parked planes has begun (except perhaps N978AN, which is shown as officially retired).

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/American-Airlines
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