JohanTally wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

JohanTally wrote:

With AA having a large 737 MAX order still in place theoretically they could convert some to the 737-7 to offset future 319/320 retirements. It would also be able to handle routes deep into South America that can't support 787s. Boeing could offer a sweetheart deal to bolster the 737-7 orders.

That's so unlikely, and why would they convert MAX orders to NG 737-700s? (or do you mean the 737-MAX 7)? The MAX can fly the missions AA needs it to in South America where the 787 is too much plane (it also has a sub fleet of A319's that can do just that as well), and an order for A321XLR's as well.

Yes I'm referring to the B37M not 73G. It's a swap that could actually save AA money while offering a next generation mainline ac only needing 3 FAs. Obviously not likely but if AA could save cash while Boeing could tout selling frames for a less popular model. The LAA 319s are used on some longer routes but other than the IFE screens they are nothing special. At some point AA will need a new sub 150 seat ac so the B37M and 319NEO wouldn't require adding a totally new fleet.

LAA A319s do have a performance kit that allows improved ops at short runway fields like EYW.

JohanTally wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

JohanTally wrote:

With AA having a large 737 MAX order still in place theoretically they could convert some to the 737-7 to offset future 319/320 retirements. It would also be able to handle routes deep into South America that can't support 787s. Boeing could offer a sweetheart deal to bolster the 737-7 orders.

That's so unlikely, and why would they convert MAX orders to NG 737-700s? (or do you mean the 737-MAX 7)? The MAX can fly the missions AA needs it to in South America where the 787 is too much plane (it also has a sub fleet of A319's that can do just that as well), and an order for A321XLR's as well.

Yes I'm referring to the B37M not 73G. It's a swap that could actually save AA money while offering a next generation mainline ac only needing 3 FAs. Obviously not likely but if AA could save cash while Boeing could tout selling frames for a less popular model. The LAA 319s are used on some longer routes but other than the IFE screens they are nothing special. At some point AA will need a new sub 150 seat ac so the B37M and 319NEO wouldn't require adding a totally new fleet.

Weren't they already thinking of buying the 319NEO ten years ago when they placed their huge orders with Boeing for the 738/8MAX and Airbus for the 319 and 321 OEO and NEO? I could be wrong, but I do remember them converting 319 orders to 321 firm orders, might have been for the OEO variant. Those orders were placed to replaced the then massive MD-80 fleet.

I am surprised AA hasn't sold its relatively new A332's (RR engines) to DL. Their A333 P&W are really older.

x1234 wrote:

I am surprised AA hasn't sold its relatively new A332's (RR engines) to DL. Their A333 P&W are really older.

I'm sure that if there was no pandemic, AA and DL would have worked out a deal to exchange the A330s and the T7s the same way PA and AA worked out a deal to exchange 747s and DC-10s back in the 80s. DL would have taken ex-AA/US A330s and AA would have taken ex-DL T7s. I don't know if that would have been done but at least they would have been in discussion to do that. The COVID-19 pandemic crisis of 2020 forced all major airlines to do drastic cuts and accelerate aircraft retirements.

American 767 wrote:

x1234 wrote:

I am surprised AA hasn't sold its relatively new A332's (RR engines) to DL. Their A333 P&W are really older.

I'm sure that if there was no pandemic, AA and DL would have worked out a deal to exchange the A330s and the T7s the same way PA and AA worked out a deal to exchange 747s and DC-10s back in the 80s. DL would have taken ex-AA/US A330s and AA would have taken ex-DL T7s. I don't know if that would have been done but at least they would have been in discussion to do that. The COVID-19 pandemic crisis of 2020 forced all major airlines to do drastic cuts and accelerate aircraft retirements.

AA wouldn't have retired the 330s without the pandemic and DL likely wouldn't have retired the 777s either so there would have never been a conversation without the pandemic.

x1234 wrote:

I am surprised AA hasn't sold its relatively new A332's (RR engines) to DL. Their A333 P&W are really older.

AA will gladly sell it’s retired planes to the highest bidder. AA hasn’t sold its newer A332s to DL because DL doesn’t want them. The idea that DL is interested in every used plane on the market is becoming a bit of an annoyance at this point.

American 767 wrote:

JohanTally wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

That's so unlikely, and why would they convert MAX orders to NG 737-700s? (or do you mean the 737-MAX 7)? The MAX can fly the missions AA needs it to in South America where the 787 is too much plane (it also has a sub fleet of A319's that can do just that as well), and an order for A321XLR's as well.

Yes I'm referring to the B37M not 73G. It's a swap that could actually save AA money while offering a next generation mainline ac only needing 3 FAs. Obviously not likely but if AA could save cash while Boeing could tout selling frames for a less popular model. The LAA 319s are used on some longer routes but other than the IFE screens they are nothing special. At some point AA will need a new sub 150 seat ac so the B37M and 319NEO wouldn't require adding a totally new fleet.

Weren't they already thinking of buying the 319NEO ten years ago when they placed their huge orders with Boeing for the 738/8MAX and Airbus for the 319 and 321 OEO and NEO? I could be wrong, but I do remember them converting 319 orders to 321 firm orders, might have been for the OEO variant. Those orders were placed to replaced the then massive MD-80 fleet.

I don't believe the A319NEO was ever planned. From memory the order was 319 and 321 CEO and 321NEO.

planecane wrote:

American 767 wrote:

JohanTally wrote:

Yes I'm referring to the B37M not 73G. It's a swap that could actually save AA money while offering a next generation mainline ac only needing 3 FAs. Obviously not likely but if AA could save cash while Boeing could tout selling frames for a less popular model. The LAA 319s are used on some longer routes but other than the IFE screens they are nothing special. At some point AA will need a new sub 150 seat ac so the B37M and 319NEO wouldn't require adding a totally new fleet.

Weren't they already thinking of buying the 319NEO ten years ago when they placed their huge orders with Boeing for the 738/8MAX and Airbus for the 319 and 321 OEO and NEO? I could be wrong, but I do remember them converting 319 orders to 321 firm orders, might have been for the OEO variant. Those orders were placed to replaced the then massive MD-80 fleet.

I don't believe the A319NEO was ever planned. From memory the order was 319 and 321 CEO and 321NEO.

Correct. AA did end converting all their outstanding A319ceo orders to A321ceos which is what he is remembering. Originally the order was evenly split between 65 A319ceos and 65 A321ceos but AA only ended up taking ~30-40 A319s.

Didn't the seat gap between the CR7 and MD80 plague LAA when they retired the F100?

JohanTally wrote:

Yes I'm referring to the B37M not 73G. It's a swap that could actually save AA money while offering a next generation mainline ac only needing 3 FAs. Obviously not likely but if AA could save cash while Boeing could tout selling frames for a less popular model. The LAA 319s are used on some longer routes but other than the IFE screens they are nothing special. At some point AA will need a new sub 150 seat ac so the B37M and 319NEO wouldn't require adding a totally new fleet.

They don't need a 150 seater. B738 was the 150 seater until they decide to bump it up to 160 and eventually 172.

Whereas the 150 seater was doing a double daily, AA can use one A319 frequency and one B738 frequency to balance out.

If it was a single A320 flight, AA could simply leave the 22 seats to competitors by going for one A319 frequency. If they have extra 22 seats in one market (by using B738) it is not end of world nor a loss. It simply means AA revenue departments need to come up with a strategy to streamline the demand to match the supply, or adjust supply to fit in with the demand.

If AA needed the A320 size plane, they would have ordered the A320NEO. The unfortunately thing is if they ordered the A320NEO, it would have been Oasised into 170 seats like the B738. AA's strategy is clear on the size of mainline (A319-128 seats/B738-172 seats/A321-190 seats). AA was going to retire all A320 at one stage, it means they don't need the 150 seaters. They like the versatility of B738 in 172 seating arrangement.

However, that being said, it would be interesting to see when A319 close to retirement, AA may finally upgauge from A319 to A320. It could be an 150 strong order of A320NEO in a distance future, yet I don't see it happening until 2027-2030 if it ever happens.

Polot wrote:

x1234 wrote:

I am surprised AA hasn't sold its relatively new A332's (RR engines) to DL. Their A333 P&W are really older.

AA will gladly sell it’s retired planes to the highest bidder. AA hasn’t sold its newer A332s to DL because DL doesn’t want them. The idea that DL is interested in every used plane on the market is becoming a bit of an annoyance at this point.

I'm not convinced AA would want those 777s either in a non-COVID world. The 787 seems to be the future of the AA longhaul fleet.

AA has 47 777-200ER plus 20 77W's, they don't need any more. Where is AA going to fly all their 777, 787 are replacing them on many routes. Delta's 20 777 are really two separate fleets purchased 10 years apart since later ones are 777-200LR's. AA's 777 fleet is fine for their needs, in coming years some will be retired.

American 767 wrote:

Weren't they already thinking of buying the 319NEO ten years ago when they placed their huge orders with Boeing for the 738/8MAX and Airbus for the 319 and 321 OEO and NEO?

As I recall they placed a massive split order for A319/321 CEO and NEO and 737-800 and 737-8 (MAX). They then filed bankruptcy a month or two after. They were one of the early orders for the NEO and the MAX and helped push Boeing to do the MAX and not a clean sheet.

As I recall the huge order was for fleet renewal, but importantly it also made the company technically insolvent so that they could file Chapter 11.

Polot wrote:

x1234 wrote:

I am surprised AA hasn't sold its relatively new A332's (RR engines) to DL. Their A333 P&W are really older.

AA will gladly sell it’s retired planes to the highest bidder. AA hasn’t sold its newer A332s to DL because DL doesn’t want them. The idea that DL is interested in every used plane on the market is becoming a bit of an annoyance at this point.

I don't think any airline is looking for widebodies right now, plenty of them parked in the deserts.

Polot wrote:

x1234 wrote:

I am surprised AA hasn't sold its relatively new A332's (RR engines) to DL. Their A333 P&W are really older.

AA will gladly sell it’s retired planes to the highest bidder. AA hasn’t sold its newer A332s to DL because DL doesn’t want them. The idea that DL is interested in every used plane on the market is becoming a bit of an annoyance at this point.

I'm afraid an annoyance that will actually be the correct and smart move in post Covid times.

Just so many stored aircraft that are even under 5 years old. You just can't ignore that.

x1234 wrote:

I am surprised AA hasn't sold its relatively new A332's (RR engines) to DL. Their A333 P&W are really older.

Delta cannot fly widebodies to even London, Paris and Amsterdam at the moment. You think they are interested in buying more?

Detroit313 wrote:

x1234 wrote:

I am surprised AA hasn't sold its relatively new A332's (RR engines) to DL. Their A333 P&W are really older.

Delta cannot fly widebodies to even London, Paris and Amsterdam at the moment. You think they are interested in buying more?

Huh? That’s all DL is flying to those places at the moment. AA hasn’t sold their 332s because nobody wants them, not sure why anyone would think DL has the need for additional aircraft when they just retired an entire fleet of aircraft.

Jeremy

SESGDL wrote:

Detroit313 wrote:

x1234 wrote:

I am surprised AA hasn't sold its relatively new A332's (RR engines) to DL. Their A333 P&W are really older.

Delta cannot fly widebodies to even London, Paris and Amsterdam at the moment. You think they are interested in buying more?

Huh? That’s all DL is flying to those places at the moment. AA hasn’t sold their 332s because nobody wants them...

That's likely the issue. Somebody would really need to be giving away 332s. They have an op cost deficiency vs. 333s. They have an even bigger op cost problem and no range advantage vs. DL's 333neos.

The idea that 'They have some. They must want more of that type!' really has been shown to have some holes in it. There are all kinds of 737-700s, 738s, 319s, 320s, and 777s just sitting in deserts.

It's possible that if/when traffic levels truly rebound, and demand picks up, frames like the AA A332s and DL 777s could be picked up by other carriers. The DL 777-200s were delivered in the late 1990s (1999 and early 2000s) but the LR's were all from 2006 onward. But right now, there is so much slack in the global fleets that it is unrealistic to assume that just because one airline has a fleet type, it must mean it wants more. Same goes for the argument that AA could swap out some MAX-8 orders for the MAX-7. Yes, they could, but likely they have enough A319s to fulfill the missions it would use a 7 for.

MIflyer12 wrote:

SESGDL wrote:

Detroit313 wrote:

Delta cannot fly widebodies to even London, Paris and Amsterdam at the moment. You think they are interested in buying more?

Huh? That’s all DL is flying to those places at the moment. AA hasn’t sold their 332s because nobody wants them...

That's likely the issue. Somebody would really need to be giving away 332s. They have an op cost deficiency vs. 333s. They have an even bigger op cost problem and no range advantage vs. DL's 333neos.

The idea that 'They have some. They must want more of that type!' really has been shown to have some holes in it. There are all kinds of 737-700s, 738s, 319s, 320s, and 777s just sitting in deserts.

Yeah, I don't get the logic some people exercise around here, it really demonstrates a lack of critical reasoning.

Longhaul international flying is almost non-existent right now, but, "OMG, AA wants 777s and DL wants 330s" purely because they already own some. Makes no sense. Why would you purposely decrease widebody capacity only to add more?

American A332's are RR-powered and DL are PW, why would DL pick up another engine type for a dozen or so aircraft.

SESGDL wrote:

Detroit313 wrote:

x1234 wrote:

I am surprised AA hasn't sold its relatively new A332's (RR engines) to DL. Their A333 P&W are really older.

Delta cannot fly widebodies to even London, Paris and Amsterdam at the moment. You think they are interested in buying more?

Huh? That’s all DL is flying to those places at the moment. AA hasn’t sold their 332s because nobody wants them, not sure why anyone would think DL has the need for additional aircraft when they just retired an entire fleet of aircraft.

Jeremy

They are flying a few but they are totally empty. Why would they buy more?

N114NN the aircraft involved in the AA300 incident was finally parted out at JFK this week.

Detroit313 wrote:

SESGDL wrote:

Detroit313 wrote:

Delta cannot fly widebodies to even London, Paris and Amsterdam at the moment. You think they are interested in buying more?

Huh? That’s all DL is flying to those places at the moment. AA hasn’t sold their 332s because nobody wants them, not sure why anyone would think DL has the need for additional aircraft when they just retired an entire fleet of aircraft.

Jeremy

They are flying a few but they are totally empty. Why would they buy more?

They wouldn’t. I was never advocating for that. I was questioning why people even thought that was a possibility in the first place.

Jeremy

I see undelivered B878-8, N874AN, has been flown to VCV for storage by Boeing. I'm now wondering if more won't follow soon.

How come the LUS a321 does not have any winglet's while the LAA a321 does. I though there was quite a few routes where the a321s would be doing transcons.

PHLspecial wrote:

How come the LUS a321 does not have any winglet's while the LAA a321 does. I though there was quite a few routes where the a321s would be doing transcons.

I've wondered that myself, and assumed (probably incorrectly) that the majority of LUS A321s are older though a number were delivered right up until the merger I think, while all the LAA A321s were built and delivered post the 2011 massive order AMR executed before it filed for Chapter 11. I happen to like the AA 321 (both the LUS and LAA versions) and find them to be a nice ride on 2 hour plus long segments. All the 321T's have winglets, but all those are LAA frames. The 321NEOs I believe all have winglets. Then, there's the AA naming convention which, if you look up the plane you're on would sometimes say, A321 "sharklets" on the app.

Only LAA birds have the sharklets.

LAA began years ago to retrofit first it's 757 fleet then it's existing 738 and 763 fleet with sharklets. All orders going forward for narrow body a/c were ordered with sharklets-738, 319, and 321.

Important to remember: sharklets were only available in A320 family in 2012. Not all frames could be retrofitted with sharklets, just some more recent ones at the time (wing structure related).
LAA order came around this time. LUS planes are older than that, and thus have no sharklets.

How many 737 MAXs have returned to service? Do we know when most of them will be flying? I know a few Latin American destinations will start seeing the MAX in February.

Still interesting in regards to Sharklets. It's obvioius American will continue to heavily rely upon its ever-growing A321 fleet. I've always wondered why they decided against retrofitting them onto the planes that are convertible. Considering they'll likely be flying their LUS frames for another decade or more, wouldn't the conversion cost be worth the savings from the added efficiency?

I remember having a similar conversation on here about AA's decision to skip the scimitars on the 737-800s. American just doesn't seem all that concerned with the latest winglet tech.

Any thoughts?

avi8 wrote:

How many 737 MAXs have returned to service? Do we know when most of them will be flying? I know a few Latin American destinations will start seeing the MAX in February.

Seven prior operated B737-8 MAX's have been returned to service, out of 24.
Twelve newly delivered B737-8 MAX's are either in service or being prepped for service.
Don't know what AA's schedule is for getting all the MAX's into service.

prchan wrote:

Important to remember: sharklets were only available in A320 family in 2012. Not all frames could be retrofitted with sharklets, just some more recent ones at the time (wing structure related).
LAA order came around this time. LUS planes are older than that, and thus have no sharklets.

Even post merger LUS ordered aircraft that were delivered lacked sharklets. There are lots of LUS planes with the required structure in place yet they never opted for the retrofit. The data between the two options must not of been compelling enough for the conversion.

anymaninfc wrote:

avi8 wrote:

How many 737 MAXs have returned to service? Do we know when most of them will be flying? I know a few Latin American destinations will start seeing the MAX in February.

Seven prior operated B737-8 MAX's have been returned to service, out of 24.
Twelve newly delivered B737-8 MAX's are either in service or being prepped for service.
Don't know what AA's schedule is for getting all the MAX's into service.

I flew on an AA 38M before the grounding out of PHX. I really want to take a flight o another. All I can find is MIA to LGA. Is there any other routings? I am out of PHX.

Edit :Typo

travaz wrote:

anymaninfc wrote:

avi8 wrote:

How many 737 MAXs have returned to service? Do we know when most of them will be flying? I know a few Latin American destinations will start seeing the MAX in February.

Seven prior operated B737-8 MAX's have been returned to service, out of 24.
Twelve newly delivered B737-8 MAX's are either in service or being prepped for service.
Don't know what AA's schedule is for getting all the MAX's into service.

I flew on an AA 38M before the grounding out of PHX. I really want to take a flight o another. All I can find is MIA to LGA. Is there any other routings? I am out of PHX.

Edit :Typo

Right now they're operating out of MIA. TPA, DCA, JFK, STX, SJU are all seeing the 38M out of MIA. I believe quite a few more destinations come online next month, I believe nearly all of them touch MIA.

deltairlines wrote:

travaz wrote:

anymaninfc wrote:

Seven prior operated B737-8 MAX's have been returned to service, out of 24.
Twelve newly delivered B737-8 MAX's are either in service or being prepped for service.
Don't know what AA's schedule is for getting all the MAX's into service.

I flew on an AA 38M before the grounding out of PHX. I really want to take a flight o another. All I can find is MIA to LGA. Is there any other routings? I am out of PHX.

Edit :Typo

Right now they're operating out of MIA. TPA, DCA, JFK, STX, SJU are all seeing the 38M out of MIA. I believe quite a few more destinations come online next month, I believe nearly all of them touch MIA.

Thank You. That is what I am seeing everything out of Miami. Thanks again!

Any word or rumors on the future of LUS/LAW A32X Family aircraft?

I'd have to imagine IAE birds approaching heavy checks aren't long for the fleet.

IAmGaroott wrote:

Any word or rumors on the future of LUS/LAW A32X Family aircraft?

I'd have to imagine IAE birds approaching heavy checks aren't long for the fleet.

At this point I believe there's no official retirement of A320s other than a few being retired this year. Nothing for LUS/LAW 319s and 321s. Some of the oldest 319s I believe are 20 years plus and the earliest 321s go back to around 2001. I remember back in 2002 flying LGA/PHL on an A321 (and most of the seats empty). LUS did that route with 319s and 321s back in the day.

Miamiairport wrote:

IAmGaroott wrote:

Any word or rumors on the future of LUS/LAW A32X Family aircraft?

I'd have to imagine IAE birds approaching heavy checks aren't long for the fleet.

At this point I believe there's no official retirement of A320s other than a few being retired this year. Nothing for LUS/LAW 319s and 321s. Some of the oldest 319s I believe are 20 years plus and the earliest 321s go back to around 2001. I remember back in 2002 flying LGA/PHL on an A321 (and most of the seats empty). LUS did that route with 319s and 321s back in the day.

The 319's came online in 1999 and the 321's came online in summer 2001.

anymaninfc wrote:

avi8 wrote:

How many 737 MAXs have returned to service? Do we know when most of them will be flying? I know a few Latin American destinations will start seeing the MAX in February.

Seven prior operated B737-8 MAX's have been returned to service, out of 24.
Twelve newly delivered B737-8 MAX's are either in service or being prepped for service.
Don't know what AA's schedule is for getting all the MAX's into service.

Three more B737-8 MAX's are now showing as ready for delivery. They are N334SM, N335SN, and N336SR.

phllax wrote:

Miamiairport wrote:

IAmGaroott wrote:

Any word or rumors on the future of LUS/LAW A32X Family aircraft?

I'd have to imagine IAE birds approaching heavy checks aren't long for the fleet.

At this point I believe there's no official retirement of A320s other than a few being retired this year. Nothing for LUS/LAW 319s and 321s. Some of the oldest 319s I believe are 20 years plus and the earliest 321s go back to around 2001. I remember back in 2002 flying LGA/PHL on an A321 (and most of the seats empty). LUS did that route with 319s and 321s back in the day.

The 319's came online in 1999 and the 321's came online in summer 2001.

Depending on the date built the S-check is every five to six years.

IAmGaroott wrote:

Any word or rumors on the future of LUS/LAW A32X Family aircraft?

I'd have to imagine IAE birds approaching heavy checks aren't long for the fleet.

The average age of the LUS A321 is about ten years. The first batch of older LUS A321s is relatively small but as far I know they have or will get the Kodiak treatment which which point to even the oldest A321s sticking around. 319s and 320s will probably be retired here and there but no extreme drawdown has been indicated.

AA to reintroduce the A321T on JFK-LAX in March.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... AD0BJrwGsA

https://simpleflying.com/american-airli ... -painting/

So how many 320 and 738 are retired so far?

danipawa wrote:

https://simpleflying.com/american-airlines-737-retirements-painting/

So how many 320 and 738 are retired so far?

Whoever wrote this article doesn't specify if the new paint is the paint on the left or right???

They said it's "lighter" in weight, but it is also the "lighter" color on the frame?

Two more B737-8 MAXs aircraft, N334SM and N335SN, were just delivered to TUL. Of the 17 previously undelivered MAXs, 15 have now been delivered. Additionally, A321-253NX, aircraft N423AN, should be nearing delivery.

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:

danipawa wrote:

https://simpleflying.com/american-airlines-737-retirements-painting/

So how many 320 and 738 are retired so far?

Whoever wrote this article doesn't specify if the new paint is the paint on the left or right???

They said it's "lighter" in weight, but it is also the "lighter" color on the frame?

The news release from AA provides some clarity: http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

The 'two-tone left/right nose/fuse' pic is apparently showing two different shades of the mica paint, due it being partially repainted because of maintenance.

The question I got from the AA release is that it looks like the belly is a different color than the upper portion of the fuselage. Is this similar to the repaints in the last days of the bare AL livery and the bellies are still painted in a flat gray, while the upper fuse gets the 'silver eagle?'

anymaninfc wrote:

Two more B737-8 MAXs aircraft, N334SM and N335SN, were just delivered to TUL. Of the 17 previously undelivered MAXs, 15 have now been delivered. Additionally, A321-253NX, aircraft N423AN, should be nearing delivery.

That A321-253NX, N423AN, was delivered to TUL today.

I know, old news as American took (retired?) their fleet of A332/3s. Where are they stored? Are they being broken up for parts or awaiting possible return to service?