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GSP psgr
Posts: 788
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:34 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

The 737-800 likely has enough range to reach MDW nonstop from ANC with AS, AA, and UA operating 737-800's on ANC-ORD nonstop flights.


These carriers configure their 738s with fewer seats than WN (AS, sixteen fewer). They're not promising everybody two free bags, either.


Not to mention that running a fully loaded to the gills 738 bound for ANC might be a challenge on MDW's shorter runways.
 
tomaheath
Posts: 702
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:23 am

GSP psgr wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

The 737-800 likely has enough range to reach MDW nonstop from ANC with AS, AA, and UA operating 737-800's on ANC-ORD nonstop flights.


These carriers configure their 738s with fewer seats than WN (AS, sixteen fewer). They're not promising everybody two free bags, either.


Not to mention that running a fully loaded to the gills 738 bound for ANC might be a challenge on MDW's shorter runways.

How about with a MAX7?
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 6244
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:46 pm

For those wandering how WN is doing with the new airports:

"The response to our new service so far has been very good. Performance Miami, Palm Springs, Montrose, Yampa Valley was strong in the fourth quarter. So we're quite pleased with what we're seeing."

https://seekingalpha.com/article/440186 ... transcript
 
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jscottwomack
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:44 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:58 pm

Glad to see the Max come online March 11. Been waiting to fly it.
 
OKCDCA
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:50 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:02 pm

At COS this morning and the WN gates are taking shape. Looks like WN will be a three gate operation starting out with gates 9, 11 and 12. Seems a bit aggressive for a 13 flight operation starting out. Will be beneficial in the summer though when DEN weather diverts show up.
 
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SteveXC500
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:22 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
At COS this morning and the WN gates are taking shape. Looks like WN will be a three gate operation starting out with gates 9, 11 and 12. Seems a bit aggressive for a 13 flight operation starting out. Will be beneficial in the summer though when DEN weather diverts show up.


Well, MSP is down to H11, 12, and 14...just three gates for 19 departures. Sad, they used to have 5 gates for roughly up to 27 daily departures. By the time 4/11/21 comes, they will be down from 13 winter/spring cities to only 8 cities (loss of MCI vs. year prior). So, that will probably mean about 13-14 flights per day. Three gates probably makes sense.

Anyone know if they have plans for MSP or is this REALLY all just a COVID downward loss of seats.
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1666
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:01 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
For those wandering how WN is doing with the new airports:

"The response to our new service so far has been very good. Performance Miami, Palm Springs, Montrose, Yampa Valley was strong in the fourth quarter. So we're quite pleased with what we're seeing."

https://seekingalpha.com/article/440186 ... transcript


It would seem MIA is doing very well for WN. After starting with just BWI/MDW/HOU/TPA, it didn't long for the airline to add nonstop service to BNA and DEN - popular destinations in their own right, but perhaps even more importantly, extensive connectivity for travelers headed to and from Miami. Now there will be ATL and DAL options, too! Even though WN's international expansion from FLL appeared to be a dismal failure (even before the pandemic began), I wonder if something like MIA-SJU, MIA-CUN, MIA-NAS or even MIA-HAV could be under consideration. Somehow I get the feeling that "Miami" resonates a lot better with folks in the Caribbean and Latin America than "Fort Lauderdale" does.

PSP doing well is much more surprising. While PHX no doubt offers great connectivity, wouldn't it have made much more sense to send folks via LAS - as will be the case for the new FAT and SBA stations - rather than go head to head with very well established AA services? Surely O&D between Palm Springs and Vegas is better than whatever negligible amount of people fly between Palm Springs and Phoenix? I don't think anyone has offered nonstop service between LAS and PSP since UAX many years ago...

The mountain airports are perhaps the most significant additions since they finally broke the precedent of WN serving each and every station in its network year round. While extremely popular destinations like BZN and JAC *might* be able to served year round, thanks to WN's extremely strong DEN hub (or whatever they want to call it), other possible new markets like ANC and EGE would probably have to be served seasonally. Even EYW might work if WN only flies there during the cooler, drier months outside of hurricane season. A return to BKG on a strictly summer seasonal basis might work too?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2506
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:16 pm

Sounds like the MAX8 ETOPS birds will be focused only on Hawaii around AUG. Then the 7378NG ETOPS will spend there time bouncing between seasonal shifts. Extra Hawaii flying during the Summertime and Caribbean/Mexico and Central America in the winter.
This will be great for WN going forward and horrible for Hawaiian in the future.

With the MAX8 and MAX7 Etops finally coming on line it also sounds like 6 more permanent and seasonal Hawaii gateway cities in the near future.

Flyguy
 
gr8slvrflt
Posts: 1495
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:53 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:29 am

Any idea when we’ll see the Max7 out on the line?
 
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LotsaRunway
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:40 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
For those wandering how WN is doing with the new airports:

"The response to our new service so far has been very good. Performance Miami, Palm Springs, Montrose, Yampa Valley was strong in the fourth quarter. So we're quite pleased with what we're seeing."

https://seekingalpha.com/article/440186 ... transcript


It would seem MIA is doing very well for WN. After starting with just BWI/MDW/HOU/TPA, it didn't long for the airline to add nonstop service to BNA and DEN - popular destinations in their own right, but perhaps even more importantly, extensive connectivity for travelers headed to and from Miami. Now there will be ATL and DAL options, too! Even though WN's international expansion from FLL appeared to be a dismal failure (even before the pandemic began), I wonder if something like MIA-SJU, MIA-CUN, MIA-NAS or even MIA-HAV could be under consideration. Somehow I get the feeling that "Miami" resonates a lot better with folks in the Caribbean and Latin America than "Fort Lauderdale" does.

PSP doing well is much more surprising. While PHX no doubt offers great connectivity, wouldn't it have made much more sense to send folks via LAS - as will be the case for the new FAT and SBA stations - rather than go head to head with very well established AA services? Surely O&D between Palm Springs and Vegas is better than whatever negligible amount of people fly between Palm Springs and Phoenix? I don't think anyone has offered nonstop service between LAS and PSP since UAX many years ago...

The mountain airports are perhaps the most significant additions since they finally broke the precedent of WN serving each and every station in its network year round. While extremely popular destinations like BZN and JAC *might* be able to served year round, thanks to WN's extremely strong DEN hub (or whatever they want to call it), other possible new markets like ANC and EGE would probably have to be served seasonally. Even EYW might work if WN only flies there during the cooler, drier months outside of hurricane season. A return to BKG on a strictly summer seasonal basis might work too?

I’m thinking it is too early to call any of the new stations a success. Miami could still be in the promotional fare honeymoon, much like PHL and BOS were after they started. They expanded quickly and then when they needed to stand on their own, couldn’t at much more than basic network connectivity. I think MIA and ORD are all about opportunity and their growth is about getting established in a meaningful way. We will have to see where they go long term. A stronger AA is not going to let WN get too comfortable at one of its cash cows. Probably you could throw Havana on the list of missing startup projections and maybe EWR too. Other new city adds are probably currently being measured on bringing more cash to the table than is lost by other options. Will they stay long term? I would guess yes, but maybe in a modified way. COS has me wondering. It looks and smells like a reasonable network expansion, but they are starting it so aggressively for a small population base. It’s service significantly outpaces established larger cities. I’m not sure it will succeed according to expectations.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1677
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:14 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
For those wandering how WN is doing with the new airports:

"The response to our new service so far has been very good. Performance Miami, Palm Springs, Montrose, Yampa Valley was strong in the fourth quarter. So we're quite pleased with what we're seeing."

https://seekingalpha.com/article/440186 ... transcript


It would seem MIA is doing very well for WN. After starting with just BWI/MDW/HOU/TPA, it didn't long for the airline to add nonstop service to BNA and DEN - popular destinations in their own right, but perhaps even more importantly, extensive connectivity for travelers headed to and from Miami. Now there will be ATL and DAL options, too! Even though WN's international expansion from FLL appeared to be a dismal failure (even before the pandemic began), I wonder if something like MIA-SJU, MIA-CUN, MIA-NAS or even MIA-HAV could be under consideration. Somehow I get the feeling that "Miami" resonates a lot better with folks in the Caribbean and Latin America than "Fort Lauderdale" does.

PSP doing well is much more surprising. While PHX no doubt offers great connectivity, wouldn't it have made much more sense to send folks via LAS - as will be the case for the new FAT and SBA stations - rather than go head to head with very well established AA services? Surely O&D between Palm Springs and Vegas is better than whatever negligible amount of people fly between Palm Springs and Phoenix? I don't think anyone has offered nonstop service between LAS and PSP since UAX many years ago...

The mountain airports are perhaps the most significant additions since they finally broke the precedent of WN serving each and every station in its network year round. While extremely popular destinations like BZN and JAC *might* be able to served year round, thanks to WN's extremely strong DEN hub (or whatever they want to call it), other possible new markets like ANC and EGE would probably have to be served seasonally. Even EYW might work if WN only flies there during the cooler, drier months outside of hurricane season. A return to BKG on a strictly summer seasonal basis might work too?


BKG(Bass Pro International) was inherited from AirTran and serviced with their B717s. ( Air Tran also once services Tunica from ATL once? Lol. I'm sure with Casino money but it was serviced.) Air Tran was getting a kickback for every passenger at BKG. Whether it was substantial or not I do not know.

AirTran had that airport(BKG) if I remember right around 200k enplanements when Southwest took over. Southwest simply made it a stop between a MDW/ DAL flight and sent a plane from MCO and back on Sat.

Southwest will never go back. Frontier has flights starting back in April and extended the booking period to the first week of January to make sure they cover Silber Dollar City's Christmas Season which is huge and the busiest time of the year for that theme park. Could they add MCO. Maybe. The connection times offered by Frontier are horrible almost all are a overnight layover on the BKG to segment.


Southwest could add nearby XNA and it would make better sense as the area is booming. It is already the size of WNs smaller stations in terms of enplanements and the area is projected to nearly double in size to 1 million in the next 20 years. Do not equate Northwest Arkansas with the rest of Arkansas sans Little Rock. It is a mini me Metroplex.
 
OAHU747
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:37 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:22 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Then the 7378NG ETOPS will spend there time bouncing between seasonal shifts. Extra Hawaii flying during the Summertime and Caribbean/Mexico and Central America in the winter.


Caribbean, Mexico, and Central America do not need ETOPS aircraft to fly them. They just need rafts which numerous non-ETOPS planes already have. Not to mention the specific ETOPS maintenance requirements these planes must constantly go through and route through certain bases.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2506
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:58 pm

OAHU747 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Then the 7378NG ETOPS will spend there time bouncing between seasonal shifts. Extra Hawaii flying during the Summertime and Caribbean/Mexico and Central America in the winter.


Caribbean, Mexico, and Central America do not need ETOPS aircraft to fly them. They just need rafts which numerous non-ETOPS planes already have. Not to mention the specific ETOPS maintenance requirements these planes must constantly go through and route through certain bases.

Ya I know that. What I should have said during the Off season from Hawaii Southwest will use the 800NG Etops aircraft on NON Etops missions to add seasonal winter time capacity to Florida,Caribbean,Mexico and Central America.
Flyguy
 
dbo861
Posts: 1072
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 2:20 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:04 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Then the 7378NG ETOPS will spend there time bouncing between seasonal shifts. Extra Hawaii flying during the Summertime and Caribbean/Mexico and Central America in the winter.


Caribbean, Mexico, and Central America do not need ETOPS aircraft to fly them. They just need rafts which numerous non-ETOPS planes already have. Not to mention the specific ETOPS maintenance requirements these planes must constantly go through and route through certain bases.

Ya I know that. What I should have said during the Off season from Hawaii Southwest will use the 800NG Etops aircraft on NON Etops missions to add seasonal winter time capacity to Florida,Caribbean,Mexico and Central America.
Flyguy


Is winter an off season for Hawaii?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2506
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:08 pm

dbo861 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:

Caribbean, Mexico, and Central America do not need ETOPS aircraft to fly them. They just need rafts which numerous non-ETOPS planes already have. Not to mention the specific ETOPS maintenance requirements these planes must constantly go through and route through certain bases.

Ya I know that. What I should have said during the Off season from Hawaii Southwest will use the 800NG Etops aircraft on NON Etops missions to add seasonal winter time capacity to Florida,Caribbean,Mexico and Central America.
Flyguy


Is winter an off season for Hawaii?

True very true. Heck you are correct Hawaii is more of a year round destination. Winter winds do play a Huge impact on loads going westbound. Regardless sounds like WN is planning on to kicking in its final long delayed Hawaii expansion into full gear this summer pending Covid starts to reseed with the Vaccine roll out.
With the LACK of international pressure into Hawaii HNL has ample open gate capacity for WN to aggressively expand into. It almost a perfect storm for Them to expand.

Flyguy
 
jplatts
Posts: 4715
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:33 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
I’m thinking it is too early to call any of the new stations a success. Miami could still be in the promotional fare honeymoon, much like PHL and BOS were after they started. They expanded quickly and then when they needed to stand on their own, couldn’t at much more than basic network connectivity. I think MIA and ORD are all about opportunity and their growth is about getting established in a meaningful way. We will have to see where they go long term. A stronger AA is not going to let WN get too comfortable at one of its cash cows.


WN is more likely to succeed at MIA and ORD long-term than at PHL or BOS due to
(a) WN having a bigger presence at FLL and MDW than at PHL or BOS prior to the COVID-19 pandemic,
(b) WN having a bigger FF base in the MIA/FLL and CHI (ORD/MDW) markets than in the PHL or BOS markets,
(c) WN having served MDW in the CHI market for over 35 years and FLL in the MIA/FLL market for over 25 years,
(d) WN having kept most of its domestic nonstop routes out of FLL until the COVID-19 pandemic,
(e) WN having kept most of its domestic nonstop routes out of MDW,
(f) WN's current nonstop routes out of MIA being to WN hubs and top destinations traveled to from FLL on WN, and
(g) WN's initial nonstop routes out of ORD being to WN hubs and some of the top destinations traveled to from MDW on WN.

WN served some non-hub stations nonstop from both PHL and BOS in the past, but WN has dropped PHL-AUS/BOS/CMH/BDL/LAS/LAX/MHT/OAK/PIT/PVD/RDU/SAT and BOS-ATL/AUS/CMH/DAL/HOU/IND/MCI/MKE/PHX nonstop service.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:06 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Sounds like the MAX8 ETOPS birds will be focused only on Hawaii around AUG. Then the 7378NG ETOPS will spend there time bouncing between seasonal shifts. Extra Hawaii flying during the Summertime and Caribbean/Mexico and Central America in the winter.
This will be great for WN going forward and horrible for Hawaiian in the future.

With the MAX8 and MAX7 Etops finally coming on line it also sounds like 6 more permanent and seasonal Hawaii gateway cities in the near future.

Flyguy

So AFTER LGB, you are saying that SWA is going to serve at least 6 more markets to Hawai’i? I can see PHX and LAS, but 4 more, I am skeptical
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:02 pm

SAN to Hawaii was delayed.

As GK stated during the earnings call, "make the experience pretty straightforward.
And the demand for Hawaii is actually very, very solid. So we think there's a
tremendous amount of opportunity there. We're excited about Long Beach,
what we're doing there. We're excited about opening up the San Diego
service that was delayed. I guess, it was initially last fall Andrew, we just
started that up. So I think the upside for us in Hawaii continues to be really
significant. So, excited about that and the MAX eight as makes it even
better. So, it actually expands the territory we can cover as well. So, new
cities with that so."
 
AC4500
Posts: 693
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:50 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Sounds like the MAX8 ETOPS birds will be focused only on Hawaii around AUG. Then the 7378NG ETOPS will spend there time bouncing between seasonal shifts. Extra Hawaii flying during the Summertime and Caribbean/Mexico and Central America in the winter.
This will be great for WN going forward and horrible for Hawaiian in the future.

With the MAX8 and MAX7 Etops finally coming on line it also sounds like 6 more permanent and seasonal Hawaii gateway cities in the near future.

Flyguy

So AFTER LGB, you are saying that SWA is going to serve at least 6 more markets to Hawai’i? I can see PHX and LAS, but 4 more, I am skeptical

PHX, LAS, PDX, ONT, BUR, SNA. Cant really think of anywhere else. And IDK if SNA has the runway length requirement for a 738/MAX 8 takeoff with that much fuel.
 
alpine1989
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:31 pm

B737-800: LAX, ONT, SFO

B737-8 MAX: PHX, LAS, PDX, SEA

B737-7 MAX: DEN
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2506
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:01 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Sounds like the MAX8 ETOPS birds will be focused only on Hawaii around AUG. Then the 7378NG ETOPS will spend there time bouncing between seasonal shifts. Extra Hawaii flying during the Summertime and Caribbean/Mexico and Central America in the winter.
This will be great for WN going forward and horrible for Hawaiian in the future.

With the MAX8 and MAX7 Etops finally coming on line it also sounds like 6 more permanent and seasonal Hawaii gateway cities in the near future.

Flyguy

So AFTER LGB, you are saying that SWA is going to serve at least 6 more markets to Hawai’i? I can see PHX and LAS, but 4 more, I am skeptical

Yes. It sounds like WN might be doubling down on the 50th state during it's 50th anniversary. WN had a massive plan for launching Hawaii but the MAX8 ground stalled those plans. The 8NG Etops and the MAX8 Etops will give WN almost 55 birds it can throw at Hawaii. Before you say no way. Remember WN currently has about 70 or so Idle 7377 in long term storage. They have a plethora of aircraft they can use to free up the NG/MAX8 Etops for opportunity to send a massive leisure marketshare grab for West coast to Hawaii.
Hawaiian Air financial situation will prevent it from being able to defend itself against anyone who wants to ramp up service. AlaskaAir is also looking to bolster their investment flying to Hawaii.
Covid fallout has left HNL with ample gate space for the first time in history. WN knows it's now or never to strike and chase that revenue stream with the hopes Covid will die down with the vaccine roll out.
LGB-HNL I've heard has already passed the bookable break even point even before the first flight has flown. Hence the reason they Added LGB-OGG.
Will all the new cities be flown year round? Probably not but I can see half as seasonal adds.

I now think WN is done adding additional new dots with the exception of JFK IF they decide to go after the Slots B6/AA must surrender.

The MAX8 puts Places like GEG,BOI,ABQ,TUS and SLC all within seasonal range without payload restrictions.
Year round service I can see PDX,PHX,LAS,ONT and BUR.
DEN and SNA will depend on the MAX7 coming online with ETOPS.
WN technology advances should also make it available to finally operate Red Eyes from Hawaii.

I honestly think Hawaii is going to be the lead bird to grown the new stream of revenue plan for the summer and fall of 2021.

Flyguy
 
BTVB6Flyer
Posts: 602
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:20 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:00 pm

Looks like TPA-MIA ends 3/10/21
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 963
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:04 pm

BTVB6Flyer wrote:
Looks like TPA-MIA ends 3/10/21

ATL and DAL should work better. There were limited connections on both ends of that route.
 
avi8
Posts: 1364
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:24 pm

BTVB6Flyer wrote:
Looks like TPA-MIA ends 3/10/21


That’s very sad to see. But I guess WN does not “hub” at Tampa as well as it does in other cities. You either got a long layover or nothing at all.
 
AC4500
Posts: 693
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:29 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
I now think WN is done adding additional new dots with the exception of JFK IF they decide to go after the Slots B6/AA must surrender.

Flyguy

Is there an update on possible flights to Alaska (ANC/FAI)?
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15270
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:59 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
BTVB6Flyer wrote:
Looks like TPA-MIA ends 3/10/21

ATL and DAL should work better. There were limited connections on both ends of that route.


Yes. I think this is circumstantial evidence that WN is pleased with how MIA is performing. TPA was the lowest-cost way to offer more connections; shifting the capacity to longer and thus higher cost but also higher potential routes suggests to me that WN thinks that those routes will perform acceptably, where it did not before opening MIA. The only reasonable explanation for that is that the station as a whole is doing better than WN expected.
 
OAHU747
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:37 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:25 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
With the LACK of international pressure into Hawaii HNL has ample open gate capacity for WN to aggressively expand into. It almost a perfect storm for Them to expand.

Flyguy


They do??? May I ask which ample gates WN can expand in to?
 
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barney captain
Posts: 2444
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:48 pm

OAHU747 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
With the LACK of international pressure into Hawaii HNL has ample open gate capacity for WN to aggressively expand into. It almost a perfect storm for Them to expand.

Flyguy


They do??? May I ask which ample gates WN can expand in to?


For the past few months we've regularly been using gates G1, G5 and even F1.
 
User avatar
ADent
Posts: 1210
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:11 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:26 pm

alpine1989 wrote:

B737-7 MAX: DEN

Pre-COVID UA was flying DEN to OGG, HNL, LIH, and KOA and the OGG and HNL flights were 777. IIRC HNL had a second daily (on 757).

So there is (was?) a lot of demand. Sounds like the HNL-LGB flight continues to DEN, so WN should get a hint on the demand.

Not sure how well the MAX does DEN to HNL, but should be a breeze to do the reverse.
 
timberwolf24
Posts: 543
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:38 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:04 am

Per WN route map MCO is showing as a non-stop destination from ORD. Flights have not been loaded as far as I could tell.
 
krod031
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:49 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:45 am

timberwolf24 wrote:
Per WN route map MCO is showing as a non-stop destination from ORD. Flights have not been loaded as far as I could tell.


Saturday only service in March
 
jplatts
Posts: 4715
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:35 pm

There are some adds that could be made out of MDW such as the return of MDW-ISP/PWM/ROC nonstop service and the addition of MDW-RIC nonstop service as these adds by WN would
(a) enable WN to more easily fill its nonstop flights out of MDW to destinations west of the Mississippi River (and vice versa) with the additional connecting traffic that WN would be getting if these adds were made by WN,
(b) improve connectivity to the rest of the WN network from ISP, PWM, RIC, and ROC,
(c) fill in the void left by the cuts that WN has made at ATL and BWI, and
(d) provide WN with additional revenue.

WN does have enough room at MDW to make these adds with WN currently having fewer daily departures out of MDW in its Summer 2021 flight schedules than it did in past summers, with WN currently having only around 250 daily departures out of MDW in Summer 2021 compared to the 265 daily departures that it had out of MDW in Summer 2017.

Will WN take advantage of the opportunity to add MDW-ISP/PWM/RIC/ROC nonstop service, especially with the extra room at WN has at MDW and with the connecting opportunities that are there at MDW on WN?
 
737max8
Posts: 730
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:01 pm

MAX flights are on sale beginning March 11th! Saw a few on flights from den, mdw, mco, phx, slc...
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:08 am

737max8 wrote:
MAX flights are on sale beginning March 11th! Saw a few on flights from den, mdw, mco, phx, slc...


6XXX flight numbers should be Max flights.
 
WN732
Posts: 1020
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:09 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
737max8 wrote:
MAX flights are on sale beginning March 11th! Saw a few on flights from den, mdw, mco, phx, slc...


6XXX flight numbers should be Max flights.


Been searching for them in the AUS schedules but nothing yet.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4461
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:50 am

This tweet has a map of the MAX
routes.

https://twitter.com/byerussell/status/1 ... 26122?s=21

Image
 
jplatts
Posts: 4715
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:27 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
I now think WN is done adding additional new dots with the exception of JFK IF they decide to go after the Slots B6/AA must surrender.


There might still be a few more new domestic destinations that might get added by WN in the near future such as ANC, MYR, SYR, TYS, and GSO with ANC, MYR, SYR, TYS, and GSO being top remaining U.S. destinations without WN service.
 
Wneast
Posts: 969
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:17 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Sounds like the MAX8 ETOPS birds will be focused only on Hawaii around AUG. Then the 7378NG ETOPS will spend there time bouncing between seasonal shifts. Extra Hawaii flying during the Summertime and Caribbean/Mexico and Central America in the winter.
This will be great for WN going forward and horrible for Hawaiian in the future.

With the MAX8 and MAX7 Etops finally coming on line it also sounds like 6 more permanent and seasonal Hawaii gateway cities in the near future.

Flyguy

So AFTER LGB, you are saying that SWA is going to serve at least 6 more markets to Hawai’i? I can see PHX and LAS, but 4 more, I am skeptical

Yes. It sounds like WN might be doubling down on the 50th state during it's 50th anniversary. WN had a massive plan for launching Hawaii but the MAX8 ground stalled those plans. The 8NG Etops and the MAX8 Etops will give WN almost 55 birds it can throw at Hawaii. Before you say no way. Remember WN currently has about 70 or so Idle 7377 in long term storage. They have a plethora of aircraft they can use to free up the NG/MAX8 Etops for opportunity to send a massive leisure marketshare grab for West coast to Hawaii.
Hawaiian Air financial situation will prevent it from being able to defend itself against anyone who wants to ramp up service. AlaskaAir is also looking to bolster their investment flying to Hawaii.
Covid fallout has left HNL with ample gate space for the first time in history. WN knows it's now or never to strike and chase that revenue stream with the hopes Covid will die down with the vaccine roll out.
LGB-HNL I've heard has already passed the bookable break even point even before the first flight has flown. Hence the reason they Added LGB-OGG.
Will all the new cities be flown year round? Probably not but I can see half as seasonal adds.

I now think WN is done adding additional new dots with the exception of JFK IF they decide to go after the Slots B6/AA must surrender.

The MAX8 puts Places like GEG,BOI,ABQ,TUS and SLC all within seasonal range without payload restrictions.
Year round service I can see PDX,PHX,LAS,ONT and BUR.
DEN and SNA will depend on the MAX7 coming online with ETOPS.
WN technology advances should also make it available to finally operate Red Eyes from Hawaii.

I honestly think Hawaii is going to be the lead bird to grown the new stream of revenue plan for the summer and fall of 2021.

Flyguy

When for you think they will announce this expansion and will they do it all at once ?
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 963
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:22 pm

My prediction for WN's operation at ORD is that it will resemble the airline's current ops at SFO and CLT (both large hubs for other airlines). There will be flights to 5-10 destinations that are focus cities, but it won't grow much beyond that. Maybe later 15-20 if WN sees success.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4461
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:14 am

Just announced today, SWA added over 1,400 flights to the March schedule to facilitate strong bookings in several markets, particularly in Florida. These extra flights will ensure dense blank lines and likely additional pairings in MOT.

https://twitter.com/swapapilots/status/ ... 46600?s=20
 
User avatar
SteveXC500
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:51 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Just announced today, SWA added over 1,400 flights to the March schedule to facilitate strong bookings in several markets, particularly in Florida. These extra flights will ensure dense blank lines and likely additional pairings in MOT.

https://twitter.com/swapapilots/status/ ... 46600?s=20


I wonder if these will show up in next week's OAG release that enilria posts on Tuesdays.
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 3088
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:26 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Just announced today, SWA added over 1,400 flights to the March schedule to facilitate strong bookings in several markets, particularly in Florida. These extra flights will ensure dense blank lines and likely additional pairings in MOT.

https://twitter.com/swapapilots/status/ ... 46600?s=20


I wonder if these will show up in next week's OAG release that enilria posts on Tuesdays.


Generally you'd expect them to, but I think a lot get lost in the monthly average, fractional numbers, rounding and timing of the load. It's easy for 15-20 added trips in a market to not look like much if it's split over a month end and rounds into a smallish change in the decimal point. Then if you consider these sorts of adds may be coming in chunks as they dynamically adjust to demand, a net increase of 18 trips might show up in 2 or 3 different weekly OAG updates.

Of personal note here in MKE Southwest's adds have pushed our RSW nonstops far above what we've ever seen before, but it hasn't especially jumped out in the weekly OAG update because of these sorts of factors. WN's typical schedule during spring break peak is 25/week to Fort Myers, usually 3x on weekdays and 5x on weekends. With incremental additions they are now up to as many as 37/week including 5 or 6 nonstops per day all through the week. But because the start of March is light, because the additions were not all added in a single week, and because the spring break additions flood over into April, you might not have caught that the spring break schedule on MKE-RSW was up 50% over previous years.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:25 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
This tweet has a map of the MAX
routes.

https://twitter.com/byerussell/status/1 ... 26122?s=21


Thanks for posting that map image. It shows a surprising number of not-that-long routes. One might have expected them to load up on longer routes that benefit from MAX fuel efficiency, like BWI-LAX/LAS/SAN.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4770
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:48 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
With the LACK of international pressure into Hawaii HNL has ample open gate capacity for WN to aggressively expand into. It almost a perfect storm for Them to expand.

Flyguy


Without international presence (for now) they could potentially expand the midday ETOPS bank which currently fills their 4 gates between 1100 and 1330. Hawaiian’s new concourse is nearing completion so that could spreads things out and frees up gates as well. However HNL is a common-use airport so even though some airlines generally stick to “their” terminal/gates, when push comes to shove you’re put wherever the airports can fit you. There’s also aircraft limitations at certain gates that complicates things even more. So if WN wants to jump into main terminal gates full time they won’t have their own and will have to play musical gates like everyone else. Not a big deal in the short term but things will pick back up and international traffic will return.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4461
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:04 pm

knope2001 wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Just announced today, SWA added over 1,400 flights to the March schedule to facilitate strong bookings in several markets, particularly in Florida. These extra flights will ensure dense blank lines and likely additional pairings in MOT.

https://twitter.com/swapapilots/status/ ... 46600?s=20


I wonder if these will show up in next week's OAG release that enilria posts on Tuesdays.


Generally you'd expect them to, but I think a lot get lost in the monthly average, fractional numbers, rounding and timing of the load. It's easy for 15-20 added trips in a market to not look like much if it's split over a month end and rounds into a smallish change in the decimal point. Then if you consider these sorts of adds may be coming in chunks as they dynamically adjust to demand, a net increase of 18 trips might show up in 2 or 3 different weekly OAG updates.

Of personal note here in MKE Southwest's adds have pushed our RSW nonstops far above what we've ever seen before, but it hasn't especially jumped out in the weekly OAG update because of these sorts of factors. WN's typical schedule during spring break peak is 25/week to Fort Myers, usually 3x on weekdays and 5x on weekends. With incremental additions they are now up to as many as 37/week including 5 or 6 nonstops per day all through the week. But because the start of March is light, because the additions were not all added in a single week, and because the spring break additions flood over into April, you might not have caught that the spring break schedule on MKE-RSW was up 50% over previous years.


Agree with these thoughts. The adds are different week to week so they won’t always show up, especially if it is just some Sat/Sun flights. If it’s a full weekly then they might. STL only had 2 Florida stations show up in this past weeks but they had adds to 5 or 6 of them. The others just were weekend flights.
 
N408BN
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:30 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:37 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Southwest is no longer the quirky LCC where tickets could only be booked locally.

SWA signs with Sabre for full GDS participation. They previously had "Basic-Level" content model with Sabre which they announced previously would be ending due friction with the legacy technology involved.

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... -agreement

Boy, they will come to regret that one. AAmerican and Sabre do not play nice.
 
User avatar
SteveXC500
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:21 am

Jshank83 wrote:
knope2001 wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:

I wonder if these will show up in next week's OAG release that enilria posts on Tuesdays.


Generally you'd expect them to, but I think a lot get lost in the monthly average, fractional numbers, rounding and timing of the load. It's easy for 15-20 added trips in a market to not look like much if it's split over a month end and rounds into a smallish change in the decimal point. Then if you consider these sorts of adds may be coming in chunks as they dynamically adjust to demand, a net increase of 18 trips might show up in 2 or 3 different weekly OAG updates.

Of personal note here in MKE Southwest's adds have pushed our RSW nonstops far above what we've ever seen before, but it hasn't especially jumped out in the weekly OAG update because of these sorts of factors. WN's typical schedule during spring break peak is 25/week to Fort Myers, usually 3x on weekdays and 5x on weekends. With incremental additions they are now up to as many as 37/week including 5 or 6 nonstops per day all through the week. But because the start of March is light, because the additions were not all added in a single week, and because the spring break additions flood over into April, you might not have caught that the spring break schedule on MKE-RSW was up 50% over previous years.


Agree with these thoughts. The adds are different week to week so they won’t always show up, especially if it is just some Sat/Sun flights. If it’s a full weekly then they might. STL only had 2 Florida stations show up in this past weeks but they had adds to 5 or 6 of them. The others just were weekend flights.


These do make sense. I’m interested in a station by station breakdown but maybe that isn’t possible.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2506
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:05 am

SteveXC500 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
knope2001 wrote:

Generally you'd expect them to, but I think a lot get lost in the monthly average, fractional numbers, rounding and timing of the load. It's easy for 15-20 added trips in a market to not look like much if it's split over a month end and rounds into a smallish change in the decimal point. Then if you consider these sorts of adds may be coming in chunks as they dynamically adjust to demand, a net increase of 18 trips might show up in 2 or 3 different weekly OAG updates.

Of personal note here in MKE Southwest's adds have pushed our RSW nonstops far above what we've ever seen before, but it hasn't especially jumped out in the weekly OAG update because of these sorts of factors. WN's typical schedule during spring break peak is 25/week to Fort Myers, usually 3x on weekdays and 5x on weekends. With incremental additions they are now up to as many as 37/week including 5 or 6 nonstops per day all through the week. But because the start of March is light, because the additions were not all added in a single week, and because the spring break additions flood over into April, you might not have caught that the spring break schedule on MKE-RSW was up 50% over previous years.


Agree with these thoughts. The adds are different week to week so they won’t always show up, especially if it is just some Sat/Sun flights. If it’s a full weekly then they might. STL only had 2 Florida stations show up in this past weeks but they had adds to 5 or 6 of them. The others just were weekend flights.


These do make sense. I’m interested in a station by station breakdown but maybe that isn’t possible.

Looks like RSW,PBI,FLL,ECP and PNS see quite a increase just for MARCH from what was originally published. In addition PHX,TUS,RNO and SAN are also seeing additional new MARCH only flying. Example MSP-SAN is added only in MARCH.

Flyguy
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6244
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:41 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

Agree with these thoughts. The adds are different week to week so they won’t always show up, especially if it is just some Sat/Sun flights. If it’s a full weekly then they might. STL only had 2 Florida stations show up in this past weeks but they had adds to 5 or 6 of them. The others just were weekend flights.


These do make sense. I’m interested in a station by station breakdown but maybe that isn’t possible.

Looks like RSW,PBI,FLL,ECP and PNS see quite a increase just for MARCH from what was originally published. In addition PHX,TUS,RNO and SAN are also seeing additional new MARCH only flying. Example MSP-SAN is added only in MARCH.

Flyguy


MSP-SAN was included in the initial March release

But Florida is doing quite well, I'm even seeing extra flights to SRQ which is a brand new destination

SteveXC500 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
knope2001 wrote:

Generally you'd expect them to, but I think a lot get lost in the monthly average, fractional numbers, rounding and timing of the load. It's easy for 15-20 added trips in a market to not look like much if it's split over a month end and rounds into a smallish change in the decimal point. Then if you consider these sorts of adds may be coming in chunks as they dynamically adjust to demand, a net increase of 18 trips might show up in 2 or 3 different weekly OAG updates.

Of personal note here in MKE Southwest's adds have pushed our RSW nonstops far above what we've ever seen before, but it hasn't especially jumped out in the weekly OAG update because of these sorts of factors. WN's typical schedule during spring break peak is 25/week to Fort Myers, usually 3x on weekdays and 5x on weekends. With incremental additions they are now up to as many as 37/week including 5 or 6 nonstops per day all through the week. But because the start of March is light, because the additions were not all added in a single week, and because the spring break additions flood over into April, you might not have caught that the spring break schedule on MKE-RSW was up 50% over previous years.


Agree with these thoughts. The adds are different week to week so they won’t always show up, especially if it is just some Sat/Sun flights. If it’s a full weekly then they might. STL only had 2 Florida stations show up in this past weeks but they had adds to 5 or 6 of them. The others just were weekend flights.


These do make sense. I’m interested in a station by station breakdown but maybe that isn’t possible.


The added flights are designated by the #5XXX flight number
 
737max8
Posts: 730
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:46 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
This tweet has a map of the MAX
routes.

https://twitter.com/byerussell/status/1 ... 26122?s=21


Thanks for posting that map image. It shows a surprising number of not-that-long routes. One might have expected them to load up on longer routes that benefit from MAX fuel efficiency, like BWI-LAX/LAS/SAN.


It's just the first month, and the focus right now is clearly adding flights where the capacity is needed based on customer demand.

You will see MAX everywhere soon, and as WN has said, the MAX will be the plane for Hawaii.
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