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LotsaRunway
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:55 pm

jmc1975 wrote:
Next 5 cities should be TYS, ROC, SYR, MSN & XNA. Possibly a DAY resumption would get mixed in.

That would fall outside their expansion pattern of Anything but areas east of Colorado and north of South Carolina. Everything has been west or south.

By the way, WN already serves ROC.
 
BMcD
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:01 am

For the initial routes:

$29 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Denver (four times daily)
$59 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Las Vegas (twice daily)
$59 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Phoenix (twice daily)
$69 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Dallas (Love Field) (three times daily)
$89 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Chicago (Midway) (twice daily)

The airline also announced new seasonal service from Denver to Montrose and Steamboat Springs beginning Dec. 19 of this 2020.
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B6BOSfan
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:11 am

ramprat320 wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
B6BOSfan wrote:
Really excited about BLI. As someone in Boston who has done B6 BOS-SEA before to go to Vancouver, I'd totally do BOS-DEN-BLI -- and cut off two hours of the Vancouver/Whistler drive.

BOS-SEA-BLI on AS will still be quicker (as well as BOS-PDX-BLI if it comes back), but more options are always good.


Hopefully Air Canada brings the BOS to YVR Non-Stop back after this is all over


I think my issue with that flight is that it was seasonal in the summer. As a skier, I tend to want seasonal/winter.

I also will tend to favor Southwest or JetBlue, given free check bags on SW and status on B6.

AS just doesn't serve BOS nearly enough for any sort of trust. Waiting for them and B6 to merge to truly give a viable full North America network option.
 
Aliqiout
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:58 am

B6BOSfan wrote:
ramprat320 wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
BOS-SEA-BLI on AS will still be quicker (as well as BOS-PDX-BLI if it comes back), but more options are always good.


Hopefully Air Canada brings the BOS to YVR Non-Stop back after this is all over


I think my issue with that flight is that it was seasonal in the summer. As a skier, I tend to want seasonal/winter.

I also will tend to favor Southwest or JetBlue, given free check bags on SW and status on B6.

AS just doesn't serve BOS nearly enough for any sort of trust. Waiting for them and B6 to merge to truly give a viable full North America network option.

I don't know what this means, but AS will almost definitely have more service in BOS than WN will have in BLI.
 
metaldirtnskin
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:08 am

flyboy80 wrote:
At one point I recall hearing that over 50% of the Eugene area's market (catchment area) choses PDX for fare difference/ non-stop service, so it certainly makes sense that WN will be able to develop a market in Eugene. There are already a lot of flights to the Bay Area and So Cal, not to mention SLC and DEN. These are literally all markets that WN is a major player in- and they'll be able to serve a lot of connection opportunities.


This is what it boils down to - the main competition for any carrier at EUG isn't the other carriers, it's driving to PDX. But traffic has gotten worse and both areas have grown a lot in the 15 years I've lived here... Lots of people I know who moved here from California or elsewhere are so loyal to WN that they'll drive to Portland, until the service at EUG hits a tipping point where they start considering it before that two-hour (often more with traffic) drive. The BLI situation must be similar, having made both drives dozens of times.

But, even as someone who constantly roots for more service at EUG, I'm really surprised WN pulled the trigger. Let's hope it sticks.
 
TYSflyer
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:10 am

[url][/url]
Runway765 wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
Those are 3 really good adds. I figure ANC, RAP, and JAC can’t be too far away.


I hope ANC, TYS, MSN and XNA come soon

I don’t want to be dramatically negative, but there clearly seems to be something holding them back from announcing TYS. It is a larger market than numerous markets that have been recently announced. There is a decent tourism draw granted that tends to be more regional (most visitors drive from neighboring states). The local airport authority continues to tout “we have a good relationship with Southwest” for whatever that is worth. With each ensuing WN announcement not including TYS, I become progressively more pessimistic that they will ever come here.
 
Wneast
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:37 am

I might be biased but when will we see some more Geg flying !
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:55 am

Reading the article via The newspapers Facebook page which has no pay wall.
WN says it could easily add 3 more gates or use every available gate at COS in the near future. The WN spoke person mentions possibly adding new service to places like BWI,HOU and California which I'm guessing would include OAK,LAX and SAN for the short term.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they announce additional service on Thursday morning during the ribbon cutting first flight ceremony.

Flyguy
Last edited by wnflyguy on Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wneast
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:58 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Reading the article via The newspapers Facebook page which has no pay wall.
WN says it could easily add 3 more gates or use every available gate at COS in the near future. The WN spoke person mentions more service to places like BWI,HOU and California which I'm guessing would include OAK,LAX and SAN for the short term.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they announce additional service on Thursday morning during the ribbon cutting first flight ceremony.

Flyguy

I would include a Nashville, St. Louis and maybe Florida flights at some point
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:15 am

BMcD wrote:
For the initial routes:

$29 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Denver (four times daily)
$59 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Las Vegas (twice daily)
$59 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Phoenix (twice daily)
$69 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Dallas (Love Field) (three times daily)
$89 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Chicago (Midway) (twice daily)

The airline also announced new seasonal service from Denver to Montrose and Steamboat Springs beginning Dec. 19 of this 2020.


Who is flying COS-DEN? I get COS-DEN-XYZ, but why even post $29 one-way nonstop. No one is buying COS-DEN. Right?!
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
BMcD
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:24 am

SuseJ772 wrote:
BMcD wrote:
For the initial routes:

$29 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Denver (four times daily)
$59 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Las Vegas (twice daily)
$59 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Phoenix (twice daily)
$69 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Dallas (Love Field) (three times daily)
$89 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Chicago (Midway) (twice daily)

The airline also announced new seasonal service from Denver to Montrose and Steamboat Springs beginning Dec. 19 of this 2020.


Who is flying COS-DEN? I get COS-DEN-XYZ, but why even post $29 one-way nonstop. No one is buying COS-DEN. Right?!


I'm going to guess it is a XYZ type deal. I don't see anyone doing just the DEN leg. Maybe they have a DEN to PIT for $59 and they don't have a routing for COS to PIT so you have to buy it that way? Not sure, I know United has a lot of COS-DEN with onward routing but it shows as the COS-DEN as the passenger.
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Chuska
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:52 am

BMcD wrote:
https://gazette.com/premium/southwest-has-high-hopes-big-plans-for-colorado-springs/article_e6a50b30-7ad5-11eb-8dd9-a319bbf0e733.html

Looks like advanced bookings are ahead of forecasts and is willing to expand. Great news for COS and expansion of services.

The usage of gates is interesting, there is an east side that has either never been used or was used very minimally for the WestPac expansion. Right now it is housing offices and meetings but guessing it can be transformed into a concourse/gates again quickly.


The east concourse was built specifically for Western Pacific in 1996 and it was used extensively but only for a short period of time before, ironically, WestPac retreated from COS and moved to DEN and went broke. DIA (the new DEN) had just opened and was so far out of town that WestPac had the same idea, lure people from south Denver to COS, but it didn't work. WestPac even tried developing a feeder carrier, Mountain Air Express, or MAX. Things have really changed in the past 25 years and COS is much bigger now. WestPac was bran new back then but WN has been around for 50 years now, they know how to make COS work.
 
flyjoe
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:56 am

SuseJ772 wrote:
[Who is flying COS-DEN? I get COS-DEN-XYZ, but why even post $29 one-way nonstop. No one is buying COS-DEN. Right?!

Nobody, other than a cheap way to take your kid on their first airplane flight.
But it serves as a great marketing/advertising tool,. “Southwest Airlines airfares from Colorado Springs as low as $29.” “Nonstop flights from Colorado Springs for $29 on Southwest.”
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:04 am

DEN-COS for the avgeek or person that doesn't own a map, a la Ron White's tour manager LOL.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
airzona11
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:14 am

So much PNW- PhX traffic. How many flights a day is AS right now SEA-PHX on 739s? Large markets they can carve out some traffic from. Same goes for DEN/LAS/DAL.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:16 am

DEN1895 wrote:
With all of the new flights being added, I would have to imagine that DEN is getting closed to being maxed out until WN gets the additional gates at the end of this year. According to the city fact sheets, DEN was already at 262 departures in Feb. with only 24 gates, so nearly 11 turns per day. With the mountain towns being extended until June, COS starting with 4 daily in a few weeks, Bozeman starting in May, I would imagine the limit has to be getting close.


They only operated 162 flights/weekday in February. Perhaps the optimal schedule was for 262, which would certainly make for a busy location. They go to just over 200 Thursday, so still quite a bit of 'room' to add exciting stuff like Grand Island LOL.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:18 am

Really surprised they added DEN-COS. Obviously a feeder route. Is this WNs shortest route?
 
jmc1975
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:24 am

LotsaRunway wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
Next 5 cities should be TYS, ROC, SYR, MSN & XNA. Possibly a DAY resumption would get mixed in.

That would fall outside their expansion pattern of Anything but areas east of Colorado and north of South Carolina. Everything has been west or south.

By the way, WN already serves ROC.

My bad on ROC. I must have missed the announcement that they were not going to expand beyond their recent expansion patterns. Is there a link?
.......
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:27 am

dbo861 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
CIDFlyer wrote:
Would love to see an extra small market approach. Might be my only hope to see them at CID.


They've been - mostly - running hard in the opposite direction for the past 15 years. DEN, PHL, IAD, BOS, SFO, LGA, ATL, IAH, ORD.... Paying $$$ to make the 717s go away. Persistently upgauging with every new aircraft delivery since the first 738 in 2012. If WN has so many spare aircraft they need to pull an Allegiant and run a market like CID 3x weekly, they've got issues.


I would have agreed with you up until a year ago, but since Covid they've been adding much smaller markets to their network (e.g. EUG and BLI that were just announced today). I could see CID supporting 3-4 flights a day, or I could see them re-entering MLI which was an AirTran market up until the merger.


I could see CID get the nod over MLI. Larger market and more enplanements, was going gang busters at 1.2mil pax before Covid came along but it has retained and added back all existing routes sine the pandemic began and has expanded its terminal. I could see something like 2x STL and 2x DEN to start those would be good points to plug into the network
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:30 am

CIDFlyer wrote:
dbo861 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

They've been - mostly - running hard in the opposite direction for the past 15 years. DEN, PHL, IAD, BOS, SFO, LGA, ATL, IAH, ORD.... Paying $$$ to make the 717s go away. Persistently upgauging with every new aircraft delivery since the first 738 in 2012. If WN has so many spare aircraft they need to pull an Allegiant and run a market like CID 3x weekly, they've got issues.


I would have agreed with you up until a year ago, but since Covid they've been adding much smaller markets to their network (e.g. EUG and BLI that were just announced today). I could see CID supporting 3-4 flights a day, or I could see them re-entering MLI which was an AirTran market up until the merger.


I could see CID get the nod over MLI. Larger market and more enplanements, was going gang busters at 1.2mil pax before Covid came along but it has retained and added back all existing routes since the pandemic began and has expanded its terminal. I could see something like 2x STL and 2x DEN to start those would be good points to plug into the network
 
PVD523
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:32 am

ibthebigd wrote:
What would be better DAB or MLB for Southwest?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

DAB, especially with the large annual events in and around Daytona.
 
KBUF
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:37 am

Excited to see MYR service finally become a reality! My family has a vacation home in the area (and thus we fly down there fairly often), so it'll be great to have another option to get down there.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:15 am

I'm glad to see these sorts of adds by WN. It's a move away from frequency and minimum daily flight counts. I can see where connections continue to play larger and larger roles for the LUV.

I would think several lower tier markets (but much higher average fares) are on their way to getting service from WN before the end of the year.
Some that I think would be next include HSV, TYS, MSO, maybe LFT and XNA. Some of the midwest cities mentioned above certainly could see new interest.

IF they have found a way in their system to comfortably make money with just 3 or 4 flights a day from a spoke, then look out.
 
Chuska
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:08 am

I'm waiting on WN to give in and start a code share with someone who has a fleet of E175's.Then we'll really start seeing some of these cities you guys are bringing up.
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:10 am

Chuska wrote:
I'm waiting on WN to give in and start a code share with someone who has a fleet of E175's.Then we'll really start seeing some of these cities you guys are bringing up.


In 2019 I would have said you were crazy. These days who knows what could happen next.
 
mga707
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:20 am

With WN's many recent adds they may well be soon able to claim 'service to all 50 states'. Shades of mid-'80s United. ILG can only hope...
 
DenverTed
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:22 am

Looking at DEN-SEA versus COS-SEA in April. DEN is $59 and COS is $77. If you are flying from southern CO, definitely worth the $18. Driving would be $30 of mileage, parking would be more, and time behind the wheel.
A premium of $100 one way and I'll drive. $50 is about the crossover point.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:29 am

COS can support more service then it had. The real issue is DIA is so cheap. If fares are close COS o&d will sky rocket. I could see southwest having a RNO or ABQ size operation
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:36 am

There is really nothing by the Denver airport. No one would take that flight, it's all connections. The good thing is no matter your direction Denver works as the flight is so short. I've been on united many a time cos-den, always saw turbulance maybe because they don't go too high.
 
SWADawg
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:30 pm

Chuska wrote:
I'm waiting on WN to give in and start a code share with someone who has a fleet of E175's.Then we'll really start seeing some of these cities you guys are bringing up.

That’s prohibited by the Pilots’ scope clause in their contract. All Southwest passengers have to be flown Domestically by Southwest operated flights and Pilots.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
flyboy80
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:41 pm

Does southwest contract out above wing at smaller stations?
 
BMcD
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:34 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
There is really nothing by the Denver airport. No one would take that flight, it's all connections. The good thing is no matter your direction Denver works as the flight is so short. I've been on united many a time cos-den, always saw turbulance maybe because they don't go too high.


Ladies and gentlemen the captain has flipped the fasten seatbelt sign. You may use your electronic devices for the next 7 minutes. We have begun our initial descent into Denver. We should be on the ground and at the gate in 13 minutes. Don't think you get higher than 12k.
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wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:49 pm

So chatting a lot with fellow WN friends yesterday about all this expansion. The topic of international came up and some reliable sources said they heard most of the international destinations will likely return in the November/December 2021 holiday schedule. WN feels hopefully by then a massive majority of the world will be vaccinated calming fears for the return of international travel.

Instead of rushing back in and cutting back like many of its competitors with fluctuating demand is WN slower than everyone else mode better?

Thought?

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
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SteveXC500
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:51 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
So chatting a lot with fellow WN friends yesterday about all this expansion. The topic of international came up and some reliable sources said they heard most of the international destinations will likely return in the November/December 2021 holiday schedule. WN feels hopefully by then a massive majority of the world will be vaccinated calming fears for the return of international travel.

Instead of rushing back in and cutting back like many of its competitors with fluctuating demand is WN slower than everyone else mode better?

Thought?

Flyguy


Makes good sense. The U.S. may be ready sooner, I.e. end of summer, but some of the destinations may not.
Will be good to take a cruise again!
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:51 pm

The real welcome will be this weekend, when Mother Nature looks to be serving up to 2 feet of wet snow for the entire front range. No fun!
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1754
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:54 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
So chatting a lot with fellow WN friends yesterday about all this expansion. The topic of international came up and some reliable sources said they heard most of the international destinations will likely return in the November/December 2021 holiday schedule. WN feels hopefully by then a massive majority of the world will be vaccinated calming fears for the return of international travel.

Instead of rushing back in and cutting back like many of its competitors with fluctuating demand is WN slower than everyone else mode better?

Thought?

Flyguy


There was no mention of returning to EWR though? Just kidding!
 
NZ321
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:17 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
What else could they add from COS ?

COS could easily be a 40 to 50 daily flights City.
Because as WN grows DEN more it will get that unfortunate stigma for the southern Co travels who don't want to be bothered by the Drive and Crowded DEN experience. COS will definitely drawl and cater to the Anti DEN crowds.

Flyguy


Yes I would say 50+ relatively quickly and perhaps even double that over time. Decent sized attractive town - awesome destination and origin traffic.. who wants to go through DEN if they can avoid it... ? Time to put COS on the map! Smart move, I say.
Plane mad!
 
ChrisPBacon
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:27 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
While some of these new cities may get switched to seasonal and 1 or 2 might close for some reason, I think it would be difficult for WN to close several. WN does not like to close cities (although a few have happened).


Comparing WN of 25 years ago to today is pointless. Yes, back then WN didn't "like" to close stations. WN also used to open stations only in locations that could support 10 flights a day, in order to maximize the gate and insourced staff. Then WN pivoted and added things like Business Select in order to attract higher yielding business travel. Now they pivot again. They think they've found a way to open smaller cities with a few flights daily and once again focus on leisure travel. WN will close anything that isn't working for them in this new environment. Since these are all contract ground handler stations, WN can open and/or close them quickly without a ton of expense. I give them credit for their ability to pivot and change their business model quickly. But there's no way WN approaches the business the way they did 25 years ago.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:32 pm

The weed in Colorado is good, but what are you guys smoking? 50-100 southwest departures a day?
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:40 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
So chatting a lot with fellow WN friends yesterday about all this expansion. The topic of international came up and some reliable sources said they heard most of the international destinations will likely return in the November/December 2021 holiday schedule. WN feels hopefully by then a massive majority of the world will be vaccinated calming fears for the return of international travel.

Instead of rushing back in and cutting back like many of its competitors with fluctuating demand is WN slower than everyone else mode better?

Thought?

Flyguy


There was no mention of returning to EWR though? Just kidding!

Actually going off of the reliable sources I'm starting to think The Return to EWR might not ever happen.
Talking about the traffic data that EWR did pull in for WN has successfully made the case to finally add ABE and SWF. To the point it's not a matter of IF anymore but more of a WHEN they decide to add these dots. Scranton AVP also been discussed to get more market coverage in the area.
WN in this post Covid environment has committed to more 3ed party contract low flight frequency cities. The Break even cost are considerably lower than traditional WN station so if there was ever a time for new smaller destinations the time is now.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
BMcD
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:40 pm

DenverTed wrote:
Looking at DEN-SEA versus COS-SEA in April. DEN is $59 and COS is $77. If you are flying from southern CO, definitely worth the $18. Driving would be $30 of mileage, parking would be more, and time behind the wheel.
A premium of $100 one way and I'll drive. $50 is about the crossover point.


18 bucks is well worth it once you figure out gas, tolls if you take E470 out there (that is 20 bucks there) and the higher parking prices. I'm like you, 50 is the point of seriously looking at things. I think landing fees here may be lower (or they are cutting them for it to be attractive). I've been hearing/seeing others discussing new routes and upgaging to make things more attractive.

Also of note, recently the airport just purchased more land as well, there is plenty of room to expand. https://www.fox21news.com/top-stories/c ... expansion/

The 17/35's are 11000 or 13500 (primarily used runway is 17L/35R and is 13500 feet) and 13/31 is 8200 feet long (primary military ops). Even if ops were to significantly expand there is plenty of capacity and capabilities. 35L, 35R, 17L are ILS and RNAV, 17R and 31 are RVAV only. In the 20+ years I've been here I have never seen something land on 13 (most likely due to the pattern it would have to fly to come in).
DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80/2/3, 717, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 787, L1011, CRJ2/7/900, A320, A321, A330, Saab 340
 
AMALH747430
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:42 pm

WN sure has changed their tune on “split operations” at major airports where they have a “focus city” at a nearby airport. They used that argument to justify trying to kick DL out of DAL and building the international gates at HOU. I’ve always thought their stance was a bit hypocritical as they’ve served multiple Bay Area and LA Basin airports for years even though LAX and OAK are focus cities. Next time they go around whining about DL at DAL they need to be told to head out to DFW if they need additional gates. If they can serve ORD and MDW, IAH and HOU, DCA and BWI, SFO and OAK, then there’s no reason they can’t set up shop at DFW if they want to expand out of the metroplex.
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:50 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
WN sure has changed their tune on “split operations” at major airports where they have a “focus city” at a nearby airport. They used that argument to justify trying to kick DL out of DAL and building the international gates at HOU. I’ve always thought their stance was a bit hypocritical as they’ve served multiple Bay Area and LA Basin airports for years even though LAX and OAK are focus cities. Next time they go around whining about DL at DAL they need to be told to head out to DFW if they need additional gates. If they can serve ORD and MDW, IAH and HOU, DCA and BWI, SFO and OAK, then there’s no reason they can’t set up shop at DFW if they want to expand out of the metroplex.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but they still can't access DFW until 2025 when the Wright Amendment is fully repealed. No?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1754
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:51 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
So chatting a lot with fellow WN friends yesterday about all this expansion. The topic of international came up and some reliable sources said they heard most of the international destinations will likely return in the November/December 2021 holiday schedule. WN feels hopefully by then a massive majority of the world will be vaccinated calming fears for the return of international travel.

Instead of rushing back in and cutting back like many of its competitors with fluctuating demand is WN slower than everyone else mode better?

Thought?

Flyguy


There was no mention of returning to EWR though? Just kidding!

Actually going off of the reliable sources I'm starting to think The Return to EWR might not ever happen.
Talking about the traffic data that EWR did pull in for WN has successfully made the case to finally add ABE and SWF. To the point it's not a matter of IF anymore but more of a WHEN they decide to add these dots. Scranton AVP also been discussed to get more market coverage in the area.
WN in this post Covid environment has committed to more 3ed party contract low flight frequency cities. The Break even cost are considerably lower than traditional WN station so if there was ever a time for new smaller destinations the time is now.

Flyguy


Please don’t take offense to this but does WN not recognize SWF and EWR as two totally separate markets? WN could make a very profitable station at EWR if they flew something like EWR-ATL/BNA/DEN/HOU/MCO/MDW/STL.
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:52 pm

WN recently stopped serving their DAL focus city from nearby OKC citing lack of demand on that sector. However, they seem happy to serve the MUCH shorter COS-DEN. I understand that this was probably the quickest and easiest way to connect COS to the WN network during the induction phase of the station. They’ve got equipment and crew to spare right now and fuel is (or at least has been) relatively cheap so the opportunity cost of COS-DEN is relatively low.

If COS works out and WN remains, do we think WN will keep COS-DEN or will it be axed when demand for air travel rebounds and the equipment/crew are better utilized on other routes?
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:52 pm

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... rport.html

"One of the current restrictions still on the books from the Wright Amendment is that we are not able to serve DFW until at least 2025 unless we give up gate space at (Love Field)," said Southwest spokesperson Dan Landson. "At this point, we are very happy with our service from Love Field and have no current plans to consider DFW."
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:00 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2020/10/13/southwest-airlines-dfw-airport.html

"One of the current restrictions still on the books from the Wright Amendment is that we are not able to serve DFW until at least 2025 unless we give up gate space at (Love Field)," said Southwest spokesperson Dan Landson. "At this point, we are very happy with our service from Love Field and have no current plans to consider DFW."


My apologies, I should have been more clear in my original post. I am aware of that as I followed the Wright modifications back then.

Back when “Wright II” was being negotiated WN said serving DFW and DAL would break them. DL had just dehubbed DFW, AA was not in good financial shape, and my understanding is DFW was ready to deal. WN said no they couldn’t possibly serve both. We then ended up with Wright II which gave AA and WN exactly what both wanted, protected positions at their home airports.

They made the same argument re: international gates at HOU.

Wright II expires in 4 years. Will be interesting to see what happens then.
Last edited by AMALH747430 on Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:02 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2020/10/13/southwest-airlines-dfw-airport.html

"One of the current restrictions still on the books from the Wright Amendment is that we are not able to serve DFW until at least 2025 unless we give up gate space at (Love Field)," said Southwest spokesperson Dan Landson. "At this point, we are very happy with our service from Love Field and have no current plans to consider DFW."


My apologies, I should have been more clear in my original post. I am aware of that as I followed the Wright modifications closely back then. I was referring to back when “Wright II” was being negotiated WN said serving DFW and DAL would break them. DL had just dehubbed DFW, AA was not in good financial shape, and my understanding is DFW was ready to deal. WN said no they couldn’t possibly serve both. We then ended up with Wright II which gave AA and WN exactly what both wanted, airports where both airlines are protected.

They made the same argument re: international gates at HOU.

Wright II expires in 4 years. Will be interesting to see what happens then.
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:03 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2020/10/13/southwest-airlines-dfw-airport.html

"One of the current restrictions still on the books from the Wright Amendment is that we are not able to serve DFW until at least 2025 unless we give up gate space at (Love Field)," said Southwest spokesperson Dan Landson. "At this point, we are very happy with our service from Love Field and have no current plans to consider DFW."


My apologies, I should have been more clear in my original post. I am aware of that as I followed the Wright modifications closely back then. I was referring to back when “Wright II” was being negotiated WN said serving DFW and DAL would break them. DL had just dehubbed DFW, AA was not in good financial shape, and my understanding is DFW was ready to deal. WN said no they couldn’t possibly serve both. We then ended up with Wright II which gave AA and WN exactly what both wanted, airports where both airlines are protected.

They made the same argument re: international gates at HOU.

Wright II expires in 4 years. Will be interesting to see what happens then.


I don’t know what happened, this is a duplicate, please delete.
 
Wneast
Posts: 514
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:08 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
So chatting a lot with fellow WN friends yesterday about all this expansion. The topic of international came up and some reliable sources said they heard most of the international destinations will likely return in the November/December 2021 holiday schedule. WN feels hopefully by then a massive majority of the world will be vaccinated calming fears for the return of international travel.

Instead of rushing back in and cutting back like many of its competitors with fluctuating demand is WN slower than everyone else mode better?

Thought?

Flyguy
does that mean the will focus on adding more Hawaii in summer ?

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