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ChrisPBacon
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:19 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:
Who is flying COS-DEN? I get COS-DEN-XYZ, but why even post $29 one-way nonstop. No one is buying COS-DEN. Right?!


I bet its all the talk over on FlyerTalk. If I lived in DEN and needed a few extra segments to score a companion pass? At $29 each way it's perfect!
 
SWADawg
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:58 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
So chatting a lot with fellow WN friends yesterday about all this expansion. The topic of international came up and some reliable sources said they heard most of the international destinations will likely return in the November/December 2021 holiday schedule. WN feels hopefully by then a massive majority of the world will be vaccinated calming fears for the return of international travel.

Instead of rushing back in and cutting back like many of its competitors with fluctuating demand is WN slower than everyone else mode better?

Thought?

Flyguy


There was no mention of returning to EWR though? Just kidding!

Actually going off of the reliable sources I'm starting to think The Return to EWR might not ever happen.
Talking about the traffic data that EWR did pull in for WN has successfully made the case to finally add ABE and SWF. To the point it's not a matter of IF anymore but more of a WHEN they decide to add these dots. Scranton AVP also been discussed to get more market coverage in the area.
WN in this post Covid environment has committed to more 3ed party contract low flight frequency cities. The Break even cost are considerably lower than traditional WN station so if there was ever a time for new smaller destinations the time is now.

Flyguy

That’s a huge mistake IMO. UAL is making a killing flying SJO/LIR out of IAH while WN isn’t flying those two markets right now. Apparently the flights are jam packed and UAL is getting a huge fare premium while WN decides to play it conservative on restoring near International ex. Mexico.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
Western727
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:24 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
EUG and BLI
I can see something like
2 OAK, 2 DEN
And 2 LAS.

MYR I can see a similar schedule like they have planned for SAV.

Flyguy


Why not PHX from BLI, out of curiosity? Granted, DEN fits the scheme of connecting traffic for the midwest, NE, East and SE...and even the south (TX and surrounding states), so I guess that's why.
Jack @ AUS
 
DenverTed
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:54 pm

Would people accept one stops from BLI and EUG to add choices?
Things like BLI-GEG-MDW, BLI-BZN-DEN, or EUG-BOI-MDW
 
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Citrus1492
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:17 pm

flyboy80 wrote:
Does southwest contract out above wing at smaller stations?


Yes, and below wing as well.
When the iam and twu agreed to this, it didnt seem like it was a big deal. It is now. WN would never open these new stations if they had to staff them with their own agents.
Be the best
 
dbo861
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:20 pm

ChrisPBacon wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
While some of these new cities may get switched to seasonal and 1 or 2 might close for some reason, I think it would be difficult for WN to close several. WN does not like to close cities (although a few have happened).


Comparing WN of 25 years ago to today is pointless. Yes, back then WN didn't "like" to close stations. WN also used to open stations only in locations that could support 10 flights a day, in order to maximize the gate and insourced staff. Then WN pivoted and added things like Business Select in order to attract higher yielding business travel. Now they pivot again. They think they've found a way to open smaller cities with a few flights daily and once again focus on leisure travel. WN will close anything that isn't working for them in this new environment. Since these are all contract ground handler stations, WN can open and/or close them quickly without a ton of expense. I give them credit for their ability to pivot and change their business model quickly. But there's no way WN approaches the business the way they did 25 years ago.


I agree their business model has evolved over the years, but I still can’t believe they’d add these cities if they didn’t believe they could profitably operate them for the foreseeable future, even post-COVID. I’m sure there have been a few adds that won’t be successful and will be gone in the next 2-5 years. But I guarantee WN has done their homework on these cities and knows how they’ll fit in their operation when everything recovers.
 
atcdan
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:20 pm

I think the COS-DEN is specifically targeted to people with existing reservations out of DEN who want to bracket their flights on either end for only $58. Versus driving, paying for parking, etc. can just have a friend drop you at COS and be on your way.

I’m basing this only on the number of people who used to use WN to connect to foreign carriers at LAX pre-pandemic.
LAX ATC

All posts are my own opinions and do not represent my employer or any government entity in any way.
 
Wneast
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:23 pm

Since southwest is saying the could turn the old concourse to into gates I’m guessing it would need a major renovation it looks like nothing right now ?
 
dbo861
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:26 pm

It looks like we’re 2 days from the first WN MAX-8 flights since the grounding. Does anyone know when (if not already on the 11th) their entire MAX8 fleet will receive the required mods and return to service? Have they resumed deliveries of MAX8 aircraft?
 
joeljack
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:40 pm

I think that any city in america that has 800 seats or more from all airlines combined from DEN could eventually support COS service on WN. For example, MCI, STL, SLC, OMA etc etc. Will it chop off demand from Denver...absolutely! Will it get a better yield than Denver gets...absolutely!! Little or no competition on many routes!
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:05 pm

ChrisPBacon wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
While some of these new cities may get switched to seasonal and 1 or 2 might close for some reason, I think it would be difficult for WN to close several. WN does not like to close cities (although a few have happened).


Comparing WN of 25 years ago to today is pointless. Yes, back then WN didn't "like" to close stations. WN also used to open stations only in locations that could support 10 flights a day, in order to maximize the gate and insourced staff. Then WN pivoted and added things like Business Select in order to attract higher yielding business travel. Now they pivot again. They think they've found a way to open smaller cities with a few flights daily and once again focus on leisure travel. WN will close anything that isn't working for them in this new environment. Since these are all contract ground handler stations, WN can open and/or close them quickly without a ton of expense. I give them credit for their ability to pivot and change their business model quickly. But there's no way WN approaches the business the way they did 25 years ago.


I agree it is not the same company as 25 years ago in many ways. I believe more evidence of that will appear over the next year or so.

But take a minute and reread what I said since you reacted so strongly.

I did say that some of these ("1 or 2 might close") may close and some that appeared to be year-round may go to seasonal. I did not say 0 are at risk of being closed. I did not say WN would never close a city.

Since March 2019 WN has started/announced 17 new cities. My possible 1 or 2 closing would be about 5% to 10% of that group. Not a horrible decision situation. But if say that was to turn out to be 5 or 6 closing (30% to 35% of the new group), it would make investors worried and more skittish about the company.

No company in any industry likes to close new markets or locations quickly after opening them. That becomes worrisome to investors and executives about the analysis and decision making process. Occasionally admitting a mistake or that something did not work out is fine. But too many reversals of decisions is not a good thing.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
BMcD
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:18 pm

Wneast wrote:
Since southwest is saying the could turn the old concourse to into gates I’m guessing it would need a major renovation it looks like nothing right now ?


It is already a concourse, they just have offices/meeting rooms. I'm not thinking that it would be a major renovation to get things going again. I believe they already have the jet bridges out there too, so there wouldn't need to be ordering anything for those either.
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Wneast
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Re: Southwest in COS

Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:19 pm

BMcD wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Since southwest is saying the could turn the old concourse to into gates I’m guessing it would need a major renovation it looks like nothing right now ?


It is already a concourse, they just have offices/meeting rooms. I'm not thinking that it would be a major renovation to get things going again. I believe they already have the jet bridges out there too, so there wouldn't need to be ordering anything for those either.

I wonder how long tell we see southwest take them over ?
 
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Citrus1492
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:21 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2020/10/13/southwest-airlines-dfw-airport.html

"One of the current restrictions still on the books from the Wright Amendment is that we are not able to serve DFW until at least 2025 unless we give up gate space at (Love Field)," said Southwest spokesperson Dan Landson. "At this point, we are very happy with our service from Love Field and have no current plans to consider DFW."


My apologies, I should have been more clear in my original post. I am aware of that as I followed the Wright modifications back then.

Back when “Wright II” was being negotiated WN said serving DFW and DAL would break them. DL had just dehubbed DFW, AA was not in good financial shape, and my understanding is DFW was ready to deal. WN said no they couldn’t possibly serve both. We then ended up with Wright II which gave AA and WN exactly what both wanted, protected positions at their home airports.

They made the same argument re: international gates at HOU.

Wright II expires in 4 years. Will be interesting to see what happens then.


When it expires, hopefully it will die, never to return.
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AmericanAir88
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:12 pm

CIDFlyer wrote:
I could see CID get the nod over MLI. Larger market and more enplanements, was going gang busters at 1.2mil pax before Covid came along but it has retained and added back all existing routes sine the pandemic began and has expanded its terminal. I could see something like 2x STL and 2x DEN to start those would be good points to plug into the network


WN at CID? That seems like a longshot. CID is sandwiched between MDW and DSM. However, the airport is growing and F9/G4 seem to manage. I have no idea how well they perform at CID. Im hoping CID expands the terminal even more.

WN would definitely not go to MLI.

Prediction if WN flew out of CID somehow: STL, MDW (Eat away at that Ohare fortress for CID), and either DAL/DEN.
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:23 pm

jmc1975 wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
Next 5 cities should be TYS, ROC, SYR, MSN & XNA. Possibly a DAY resumption would get mixed in.

That would fall outside their expansion pattern of Anything but areas east of Colorado and north of South Carolina. Everything has been west or south.

By the way, WN already serves ROC.

My bad on ROC. I must have missed the announcement that they were not going to expand beyond their recent expansion patterns. Is there a link?

No worries on my part! ROC has actually been around for a while. It came on through the FL acquisition and survived. It suffers a bit being under the shadow of BUF. Probably can find an old link or additional discussion on A.net with a search. I think SYR suffers from being in between ROC and ALB and hasn't received much luv as a result.
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:28 pm

With the MYR and SAV announcements, I'm sure that CHS has to jumping for joy. They very quickly lost being the main Southwest connection for the entire South Carolina and Georgia Seacoast. I wonder if that will affect frequencies at CHS?
 
737700fan
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:18 pm

Citrus1492 wrote:
flyboy80 wrote:
Does southwest contract out above wing at smaller stations?


Yes, and below wing as well.
When the iam and twu agreed to this, it didnt seem like it was a big deal. It is now. WN would never open these new stations if they had to staff them with their own agents.



Wrong... they are accepting lateral bids for the following stations... WN staffing...

Now Accepting Lateral Bids for Agent Positions in Destin/Fort Walton Beach, FL (VPS), Myrtle Beach, SC (MYR), Bozeman, MT (BZN), and Sarasota, FL (SRQ)
 
planecane
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:02 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
CIDFlyer wrote:
I could see CID get the nod over MLI. Larger market and more enplanements, was going gang busters at 1.2mil pax before Covid came along but it has retained and added back all existing routes sine the pandemic began and has expanded its terminal. I could see something like 2x STL and 2x DEN to start those would be good points to plug into the network


WN at CID? That seems like a longshot. CID is sandwiched between MDW and DSM. However, the airport is growing and F9/G4 seem to manage. I have no idea how well they perform at CID. Im hoping CID expands the terminal even more.

WN would definitely not go to MLI.

Prediction if WN flew out of CID somehow: STL, MDW (Eat away at that Ohare fortress for CID), and either DAL/DEN.


I don't know if I'd call CID sandwiched between MDW and DSM. It's a good 3 1/2 hours drive from MDW. DSM is around 2 but I certainly wouldn't drive that distance and then have to take a flight with connections to most destinations.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:23 pm

MYR was a given, what with places like SAV and VPS getting WN service. The pandemic may have inadvertently exposed the inherent risks to vacationing abroad - even just in the Caribbean or Mexico - rather than taking those beach vacations right in the United States. Actually, it sounds like golf may be the biggest draw of Myrtle Beach. I know my avid golfer parents got killed with excess baggage fees on their PSP trip last year. Indeed, WN's free checked bags may be a serious consideration for golfers much in the way they are a major deciding factor for me any time I go snowboarding. Given how expensive two checked bags can be (my snowboard bag holds little more than my snowboard and its boots - and then the necessary helmet, goggles, gloves, long underwear, etc. quickly fill up carry on allowances and/or get you over the 50 pound weight limit), I have always gone out of my way to fly WN. After paying AA $70 in checked baggage fees last night to return home EGE-PHX-BUR, I really hope WN starts flying to EGE next season!!!

EUG is interesting, didn't WN decline to serve the airport after acquiring Morris Air? IIRC, COS and FAT were other Morris Air stations that WN decided not to serve - until the pandemic drastically altered travel patterns, of course. Nice to see some of these smaller airports in the West finally getting the WN service that they probably have wanted for decades now.

BLI is downright shocking. WN hasn't had much success in the Pacific Northwest, and ended up giving up on PAE before they ever operated a flight. I suppose WN is no stranger to serving multiple airports in metropolitan areas (see: Chicagoland, Greater Los Angeles, Houston, SF Bay Area, South Florida and/or the DMV), but as far as Seattle is concerned, I figured SEA would suffice. If WN ever wanted to serve Vancouver, wouldn't they just fly to YVR?
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CIDFlyer
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:30 pm

Before all of these recent ads I would say id probably never see WN at CID but with recent ads lately it gives me hope. MDW is at least 3.5 - 4 hrs away and DSM i think it could be possible. I’m not sure what the future holds for WN but with all of their recent ads it’s looking more like they are becoming somewhat of a legacy carrier. G4 surged here to #2 in market share with year round service to BNA, IWA, LAS, PIE, PGD and SFB and seasonal LAX so it’s not a small station for them and F9 does pretty well to DEN which is our number 2 destination market. A small station with 3-4 flights a day could be possible.
 
737max8
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:35 pm

dbo861 wrote:
It looks like we’re 2 days from the first WN MAX-8 flights since the grounding. Does anyone know when (if not already on the 11th) their entire MAX8 fleet will receive the required mods and return to service? Have they resumed deliveries of MAX8 aircraft?


WN has been taking delivery of MAX8's again since December 2020...check out the MAX production and delivery thread.

The entire fleet won't yet be flying in March. A mix of new deliveries and some of the A/C returned to service. Won't take much longer to get the whole fleet going!
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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737max8
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:41 pm

Citrus1492 wrote:
flyboy80 wrote:
Does southwest contract out above wing at smaller stations?


Yes, and below wing as well.
When the iam and twu agreed to this, it didnt seem like it was a big deal. It is now. WN would never open these new stations if they had to staff them with their own agents.


WN is using their own staff at a lot of these new adds.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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Citrus1492
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:51 pm

737700fan wrote:
Citrus1492 wrote:
flyboy80 wrote:
Does southwest contract out above wing at smaller stations?


Yes, and below wing as well.
When the iam and twu agreed to this, it didnt seem like it was a big deal. It is now. WN would never open these new stations if they had to staff them with their own agents.



Wrong... they are accepting lateral bids for the following stations... WN staffing...

Now Accepting Lateral Bids for Agent Positions in Destin/Fort Walton Beach, FL (VPS), Myrtle Beach, SC (MYR), Bozeman, MT (BZN), and Sarasota, FL (SRQ)

Not wrong. The poster asked if WN contracts ground ops. They do.
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Citrus1492
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:59 pm

737max8 wrote:
Citrus1492 wrote:
flyboy80 wrote:
Does southwest contract out above wing at smaller stations?


Yes, and below wing as well.
When the iam and twu agreed to this, it didnt seem like it was a big deal. It is now. WN would never open these new stations if they had to staff them with their own agents.


WN is using their own staff at a lot of these new adds.


That indicates one of two things. The new stations are expected to grow over 8 flights per day for customer service to be in house, or 12 per day for ramp/ops to be in house. Or, they couldnt find an affordable ground handler at the smaller locations.
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Citrus1492
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Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:25 am

AMALH747430 wrote:
WN recently stopped serving their DAL focus city from nearby OKC citing lack of demand on that sector. However, they seem happy to serve the MUCH shorter COS-DEN. I understand that this was probably the quickest and easiest way to connect COS to the WN network during the induction phase of the station. They’ve got equipment and crew to spare right now and fuel is (or at least has been) relatively cheap so the opportunity cost of COS-DEN is relatively low.

If COS works out and WN remains, do we think WN will keep COS-DEN or will it be axed when demand for air travel rebounds and the equipment/crew are better utilized on other routes?


OKCDAL, ABQDAL, LITDAL, MSYDAL were all operated due to the Wrong Amendment. Im not surprised one of them has gone away. OKCDAL is the shortest one, it makes sense it has lower performance than the others.
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jmc1975
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:26 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
If WN ever wanted to serve Vancouver, wouldn't they just fly to YVR?

Not really. WN has never served Canada, so the added time and expense of filing and government approval would not be worth it given the limited cross-border demand for their product at YVR. Keep in mind, YVR was well-served (pre-Covid) by AA, UA, DL, AS, AC & WS. WN would be able to offer a lower price point from BLI and does not have to deal with Canadian Covid restrictions. As the old slogan goes “you are now free to move about the country”
.......
 
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Citrus1492
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:32 am

CIDFlyer wrote:
Before all of these recent ads I would say id probably never see WN at CID but with recent ads lately it gives me hope. MDW is at least 3.5 - 4 hrs away and DSM i think it could be possible. I’m not sure what the future holds for WN but with all of their recent ads it’s looking more like they are becoming somewhat of a legacy carrier. G4 surged here to #2 in market share with year round service to BNA, IWA, LAS, PIE, PGD and SFB and seasonal LAX so it’s not a small station for them and F9 does pretty well to DEN which is our number 2 destination market. A small station with 3-4 flights a day could be possible.

WN has had legacy fares for at least the past 15 years, it's nice they are now adding the legacy connectivity.
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Runway765
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Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:42 am

Wouldn’t an expansion of WN at COS undercut their DEN operation? They are taking 16 new gates at the end of the year and will have 40 gates overall. I don’t know how they will use them if COS expands as well considering they are close.
 
Yeastbeast
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:05 am

BLI is great news, especially if they fly east, as well as south.Basically from Everett north BLI is a quicker drive. I live in Bellingham, and we've got a large college (14k+ undergrads), several businesses, and lots of year-round recreational traffic (Mt Baker often gets the most snow in the country). I would prefer to fly Alaska, so maybe this will prompt them to add back some connections at SEA and PDX.
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Cboyle
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:14 am

CIDFlyer wrote:
Before all of these recent ads I would say id probably never see WN at CID but with recent ads lately it gives me hope. MDW is at least 3.5 - 4 hrs away and DSM i think it could be possible. I’m not sure what the future holds for WN but with all of their recent ads it’s looking more like they are becoming somewhat of a legacy carrier. G4 surged here to #2 in market share with year round service to BNA, IWA, LAS, PIE, PGD and SFB and seasonal LAX so it’s not a small station for them and F9 does pretty well to DEN which is our number 2 destination market. A small station with 3-4 flights a day could be possible.

With all of these ads, I’m thinking PSM could be in talks too...
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:25 am

AMALH747430 wrote:
WN recently stopped serving their DAL focus city from nearby OKC citing lack of demand on that sector. However, they seem happy to serve the MUCH shorter COS-DEN.

Yah, and then WN lost my business as my primary carrier out of OKC, as most of my flights were down to AUS/SAT and I got locked into their 2-3x flights to HOU for connections (with long layovers). No thanks.

WN has been hosing OK for a long time...teasing adds, then yanking them when they only add them on Saturdays.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:55 am

Citrus1492 wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
WN recently stopped serving their DAL focus city from nearby OKC citing lack of demand on that sector. However, they seem happy to serve the MUCH shorter COS-DEN. I understand that this was probably the quickest and easiest way to connect COS to the WN network during the induction phase of the station. They’ve got equipment and crew to spare right now and fuel is (or at least has been) relatively cheap so the opportunity cost of COS-DEN is relatively low.

If COS works out and WN remains, do we think WN will keep COS-DEN or will it be axed when demand for air travel rebounds and the equipment/crew are better utilized on other routes?


OKCDAL, ABQDAL, LITDAL, MSYDAL were all operated due to the Wrong Amendment. Im not surprised one of them has gone away. OKCDAL is the shortest one, it makes sense it has lower performance than the others.


Are you suggesting that WN wouldn’t have flown MSY-DAL but for the Wright Amendment?
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Citrus1492
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Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:10 am

Cubsrule wrote:
Citrus1492 wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
WN recently stopped serving their DAL focus city from nearby OKC citing lack of demand on that sector. However, they seem happy to serve the MUCH shorter COS-DEN. I understand that this was probably the quickest and easiest way to connect COS to the WN network during the induction phase of the station. They’ve got equipment and crew to spare right now and fuel is (or at least has been) relatively cheap so the opportunity cost of COS-DEN is relatively low.

If COS works out and WN remains, do we think WN will keep COS-DEN or will it be axed when demand for air travel rebounds and the equipment/crew are better utilized on other routes?


OKCDAL, ABQDAL, LITDAL, MSYDAL were all operated due to the Wrong Amendment. Im not surprised one of them has gone away. OKCDAL is the shortest one, it makes sense it has lower performance than the others.


Are you suggesting that WN wouldn’t have flown MSY-DAL but for the Wright Amendment?


The Wrong Amendment hastened their MSYDAL service. WN moved east very cautiously, MSY would have come later if not for the Wrong Amendment.
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FATFlyer
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Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:23 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
EUG is interesting, didn't WN decline to serve the airport after acquiring Morris Air? IIRC, COS and FAT were other Morris Air stations that WN decided not to serve - until the pandemic drastically altered travel patterns, of course. Nice to see some of these smaller airports in the West finally getting the WN service that they probably have wanted for decades now.


The former Morris Air cities that were discontinued in the merger were Eugene, Fresno, Palm Springs, Laughlin, Colorado Springs, Denver, and Anchorage.

WN has now added all of those back except ANC and IFP.

Anchorage remains a possible future add. But at this point I doubt it will happen in 2021 since summer tourism season is already approaching.

Laughlin in the future? I think that might be a few decades or more away.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2335
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:24 am

Runway765 wrote:
Wouldn’t an expansion of WN at COS undercut their DEN operation? They are taking 16 new gates at the end of the year and will have 40 gates overall. I don’t know how they will use them if COS expands as well considering they are close.

COS will probably see some frequency increase plus a had full of destinations added. OAK,LAX,SAN, BWI,HOU and possibly MCO. They will
Never surpass DEN and its massive system wide connecting Hub.
Kind think How BUR was to LAX before the pandemic.
LAX was around 130 something flights to 40 destinations while BUR was like 70 flights a day to like 11 destinations.

Flyguy

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1650
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Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:36 am

Colorado is booming - and WN may have played a major part in the state's recent success. 20 years ago, WN wasn't even flying to DEN. The popular and highly successful carrier had served Stapleton Airport in the past, but the new DEN was still seen as somewhat of a white elephant; perhaps in part because WN had long refused to fly there. Today, DEN is not only WN's largest station (hub?), it is a springboard for growth into new markets like BZN, COS, FAT, IAH, MIA, ORD, PSP and SBA. I wouldn't be surprised if recently announced BLI and EUG are served from DEN as well.

That said, there's a heck of a lot more to Colorado than its capital and largest city Denver. The WN of old seemed to rely heavily on people driving hours (each way) for their flights. However, many Colorado locals and tourists prefer using their local airports; driving to Denver through or along mountains can mean wildly unpredictable traffic and weather issues. It was quite surprising to see WN try a fully seasonal operation for the first time with its HDN and MTJ services - and even more surprising to see the airline continue serving both stations after the ski season and through summer. Then again, the mountain airports have long been plagued by high fares, and checked baggage fees can add up very quickly for golfers, skiers and snowboarders. You have to wonder about the possibility of service to additional resorts like DRO, EGE and perhaps even GUC. If ASE ever is upgraded from its current non-standard runway configuration, it may one day be able to handle 737s too.

COS is really the only other sizable market in Colorado other than Denver with substantial year round demand, and it seems WN is going all in there. I'm not sure GJT would be big or important enough for WN, but stranger things have happened. All in all, WN seems to be a very popular airline in Colorado - and throughout most of the West. Pretty cool to see them finally serving airports other than DEN, too!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
IADCA
Posts: 2263
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:36 am

LotsaRunway wrote:
With the MYR and SAV announcements, I'm sure that CHS has to jumping for joy. They very quickly lost being the main Southwest connection for the entire South Carolina and Georgia Seacoast. I wonder if that will affect frequencies at CHS?


Probably somewhat, but I suspect WN looked at booking data and saw a lot of ZIP codes on booking credit cards that led them to realize CHS was pulling in from other areas. The math is of course more complex than that, but that's a basic building block on it.
 
nomorerjs
Posts: 907
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:24 am

Re: Southwest Announces BLI, EUG, MYR

Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:23 am

BLI is out of nowhere! Then again ORD is in the map this year.

I give WN credit. They must see an opportunity!

Good luck!
 
nomorerjs
Posts: 907
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:24 am

Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:25 am

Colorado is booming!

What is a realistic opportunity for COS with the “non-hub” up the road?
 
nomorerjs
Posts: 907
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:24 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:31 am

WN is waiting for AA to leave ORD and will pounce on the ORD gates and flee MDW to be replaced by G4.
 
Wneast
Posts: 490
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:34 am

nomorerjs wrote:
WN is waiting for AA to leave ORD and will pounce on the ORD gates and flee MDW to be replaced by G4.

Is this joke ?
 
Atlwarrior
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:42 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:39 am

Welcome to Myrtle Beach, Southwest. I wonder what city they will fly from? I would probably say Baltimore or Chicago. So many people from up North are moving to Myrtle Beach.
 
maps4ltd
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:53 am

Citrus1492 wrote:
CIDFlyer wrote:
Before all of these recent ads I would say id probably never see WN at CID but with recent ads lately it gives me hope. MDW is at least 3.5 - 4 hrs away and DSM i think it could be possible. I’m not sure what the future holds for WN but with all of their recent ads it’s looking more like they are becoming somewhat of a legacy carrier. G4 surged here to #2 in market share with year round service to BNA, IWA, LAS, PIE, PGD and SFB and seasonal LAX so it’s not a small station for them and F9 does pretty well to DEN which is our number 2 destination market. A small station with 3-4 flights a day could be possible.

WN has had legacy fares for at least the past 15 years, it's nice they are now adding the legacy connectivity.

Bingo.
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1218
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:12 am

SuseJ772 wrote:
BMcD wrote:
For the initial routes:

$29 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Denver (four times daily)
$59 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Las Vegas (twice daily)
$59 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Phoenix (twice daily)
$69 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Dallas (Love Field) (three times daily)
$89 one-way nonstop between Colorado Springs and Chicago (Midway) (twice daily)

The airline also announced new seasonal service from Denver to Montrose and Steamboat Springs beginning Dec. 19 of this 2020.


Who is flying COS-DEN? I get COS-DEN-XYZ, but why even post $29 one-way nonstop. No one is buying COS-DEN. Right?!

Meh... It keeps currently risk averse UA from throwing multiple wide bodies a day on DEN-COS-DEN, flooding the market with seats, like they did to Western Pacific.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2335
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:24 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
Colorado is booming - and WN may have played a major part in the state's recent success. 20 years ago, WN wasn't even flying to DEN. The popular and highly successful carrier had served Stapleton Airport in the past, but the new DEN was still seen as somewhat of a white elephant; perhaps in part because WN had long refused to fly there. Today, DEN is not only WN's largest station (hub?), it is a springboard for growth into new markets like BZN, COS, FAT, IAH, MIA, ORD, PSP and SBA. I wouldn't be surprised if recently announced BLI and EUG are served from DEN as well.

That said, there's a heck of a lot more to Colorado than its capital and largest city Denver. The WN of old seemed to rely heavily on people driving hours (each way) for their flights. However, many Colorado locals and tourists prefer using their local airports; driving to Denver through or along mountains can mean wildly unpredictable traffic and weather issues. It was quite surprising to see WN try a fully seasonal operation for the first time with its HDN and MTJ services - and even more surprising to see the airline continue serving both stations after the ski season and through summer. Then again, the mountain airports have long been plagued by high fares, and checked baggage fees can add up very quickly for golfers, skiers and snowboarders. You have to wonder about the possibility of service to additional resorts like DRO, EGE and perhaps even GUC. If ASE ever is upgraded from its current non-standard runway configuration, it may one day be able to handle 737s too.

COS is really the only other sizable market in Colorado other than Denver with substantial year round demand, and it seems WN is going all in there. I'm not sure GJT would be big or important enough for WN, but stranger things have happened. All in all, WN seems to be a very popular airline in Colorado - and throughout most of the West. Pretty cool to see them finally serving airports other than DEN, too!


DRO has been serviced by WN running weekend resort ski charters over the years. With the overwhelming response and success HDN and MJT have been I wouldn't be surprised if it gets added next season.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1218
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:31 am

Chuska wrote:
BMcD wrote:
https://gazette.com/premium/southwest-has-high-hopes-big-plans-for-colorado-springs/article_e6a50b30-7ad5-11eb-8dd9-a319bbf0e733.html

Looks like advanced bookings are ahead of forecasts and is willing to expand. Great news for COS and expansion of services.

The usage of gates is interesting, there is an east side that has either never been used or was used very minimally for the WestPac expansion. Right now it is housing offices and meetings but guessing it can be transformed into a concourse/gates again quickly.


The east concourse was built specifically for Western Pacific in 1996 and it was used extensively but only for a short period of time before, ironically, WestPac retreated from COS and moved to DEN and went broke. DIA (the new DEN) had just opened and was so far out of town that WestPac had the same idea, lure people from south Denver to COS, but it didn't work. WestPac even tried developing a feeder carrier, Mountain Air Express, or MAX. Things have really changed in the past 25 years and COS is much bigger now. WestPac was bran new back then but WN has been around for 50 years now, they know how to make COS work.

There was a lot more to it than that.....
United saw Western Pacific in COS as an mortal threat to the then new DIA ops. People weren’t sold on traveling so far out to the then Utterly remote airport after Stapleton closed.

UA FLOODED the COS market with seats, including adding DC-10’s. And they also had figured out WP’s Achilles heel.
At that time, The only aircraft capable of consistently operating with full loads out of there on high and hot days was the 737-300. WP’s entire business plan was built around that one airplane.

So United went out on the world market, and bought or leased every single available one, sometimes at 25-50% over market rates, even going so far as to create an entirely new financial instrument ( cannot remember exactly what it was called.) to pay for them. They sold these aircraft financing certificates for each plane to retirement funds, Wall Street Funds, Eric., with the promise that the dividends would be United’s Aircraft lease payments, you would own a share of a United Plane. It was a great sales pitch to Grandma. They were considered rock solid investments, because United Airlines could NEVER go bankrupt, right?

These were the FIRST planes United dumped in the bankruptcy, every single one of them. The certificate investors got burnt, badly.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5044
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:38 am

United has operated a gold mine on COS-LAX for years. Very high fares on a route that is dirt cheap out of den. Mostly business travellers pre covid, but they route printed money. WN would be able to really get the people driving to DIA . Cali the o&d , lax and oak seem like no brainers if they have maybe three time options they will really start to pull people out of the driving to den routine.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5044
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:43 am

EGE has a very unusual relationship with Vail resorts, but I would guess EGE is their next Colorado airport if wn wants more. They operate lots of 737-700s which is the perfect aircraft for that airport.
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2586
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Southwest in COS

Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:54 am

AMALH747430 wrote:
If COS works out and WN remains, do we think WN will keep COS-DEN or will it be axed when demand for air travel rebounds and the equipment/crew are better utilized on other routes?


Out of all of WN's covid adds, COS is one of the few cities I believe will stick around post covid. I expect further adds later in the year. I don't believe COS-DEN is sustainable, however. WN doesn't have the right equipment to make this route sustainable long term, unlike UA who does.

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