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jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:43 pm

According to a previous post (which can be found at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437923&start=50#p22323775), the PDEW of BWI-LGA on WN was 60 passengers per day in 2012.

There were also some WN nonstop routes such as ATL-GSP, MDW-GRR, DAL-OKC, HOU-CRP, and STL-DSM/LIT/OKC/TUL/ICT that had PDEW's of less than 60 passengers per day on WN in 2019.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:14 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
TUL, ICT and LIT all fly to STL over MDW. MDW would be unique to the market.


WN re-adding TUL-MDW nonstop service on a summer seasonal basis is a possibility as WN was able to make TUL-MDW nonstop service work in the summertime in the past. There are also some connecting opportunities at MDW to destinations that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from STL. WN has also recently made some other adds out of MDW such as MDW-BZN/COS/VPS/IAH/LGB/MIA/MYR/RIC/SRQ/SAV along with the return of MDW-PWM/SNA/IAD nonstop service. WN also had a load factor of 88.56% on the MDW-TUL route in Summer 2015.

WN re-adding LIT-MDW nonstop service is also a possibility as WN had served LIT nonstop from both MDW and STL prior to dropping LIT-STL nonstop service in June 2013. WN had then re-added LIT-STL nonstop service and dropped LIT-MDW/BWI nonstop service 5 years ago.
 
Wneast
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:22 pm

I wonder if we finally see MDW and DAL re added to BOI those routes ?were full when they flew and think they both went away because of space at MDW and DAL
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:01 am

Wneast wrote:
I wonder if we finally see MDW and DAL re added to BOI those routes ?were full when they flew and think they both went away because of space at MDW and DAL


I agree that WN re-adding Saturday-only DAL-BOI nonstop service is a possibility with WN recently adding other routes out of DAL to the Mountain West such as DAL-BZN/COS/HDN/MTJ, and there is more than enough room at DAL to accommodate the return of DAL-BOI nonstop service on a Saturday-only basis with WN operating fewer flights out of DAL on Saturdays than it does on weekdays or Sundays.

I also agree that WN re-adding MDW-BOI/GEG nonstop service is a possibility with WN being able to make MDW-BOI/GEG nonstop service work on a summer seasonal basis in the past. WN also has more room at MDW than it did in the past with WN no longer serving EWR nonstop from MDW and with WN having reduced frequencies on some other nonstop routes out of MDW.
 
Wneast
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:10 am

jplatts wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I wonder if we finally see MDW and DAL re added to BOI those routes ?were full when they flew and think they both went away because of space at MDW and DAL


I agree that WN re-adding Saturday-only DAL-BOI nonstop service is a possibility with WN recently adding other routes out of DAL to the Mountain West such as DAL-BZN/COS/HDN/MTJ, and there is more than enough room at DAL to accommodate the return of DAL-BOI nonstop service on a Saturday-only basis with WN operating fewer flights out of DAL on Saturdays than it does on weekdays or Sundays.

I also agree that WN re-adding MDW-BOI/GEG nonstop service is a possibility with WN being able to make MDW-BOI/GEG nonstop service work on a summer seasonal basis in the past. WN also has more room at MDW than it did in the past with WN no longer serving EWR nonstop from MDW and with WN having reduced frequencies on some other nonstop routes out of MDW.

I think they should for sure make some adds in BOI as that city is on fire in growth and wealth
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:28 am

Everything is a possibility. And I don't think BLI will ever come on line. But then again, I would have never thought WN would be re-entering JAN.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:24 am

evank516 wrote:
Have to wonder if ISP-MDW is also set for a comeback. They just announced a resurrection of ISP-BNA.


I agree that WN re-adding ISP-MDW nonstop service is a possibility as WN was able to make both ISP-MDW and LGA-MDW nonstop service work after adding LGA-MDW nonstop service but prior to dropping ISP-MDW nonstop service.

WN also has more than enough room at ISP to add more flights, whereas slot restrictions at LGA limit the amount of nonstop flights that WN can operate out of LGA.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest in COS

Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:04 am

AMALH747430 wrote:
WN recently stopped serving their DAL focus city from nearby OKC citing lack of demand on that sector. However, they seem happy to serve the MUCH shorter COS-DEN. I understand that this was probably the quickest and easiest way to connect COS to the WN network during the induction phase of the station. They’ve got equipment and crew to spare right now and fuel is (or at least has been) relatively cheap so the opportunity cost of COS-DEN is relatively low.

If COS works out and WN remains, do we think WN will keep COS-DEN or will it be axed when demand for air travel rebounds and the equipment/crew are better utilized on other routes?


The main reason why WN is operating COS-DEN nonstop service is due to connections to destinations in the Pacific Northwest, Mountain West, Southwest, and Midwest that would require significant backtracking through other WN hubs.

On the other hand, WN still offers 1-stop connectivity to AUS, SAT, MSY, and Florida from OKC through HOU and there wasn't a significant amount of passengers making connections to smaller West Texas destinations such as AMA, LBB, and MAF from OKC through DAL on WN in 2019. Most of the destinations outside of Texas that passengers were connecting to from OKC through DAL still have 1-stop connecting service through LAS, PHX, DEN, HOU, STL, and/or ATL on WN.
 
evank516
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:06 pm

tphuang wrote:
ytib wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

You missed tphuang's point: people don't need to connect to get to LGA (or more broadly NYC). The NYC airports typically have n/s service to 200+ destinations. LGA isn't GRR or ISP!


Anyone who wants to travel beyond perimeter and depart from LGA needs to connect.


those people can easily fly out of EWR or JFK. People aren't going to connect unless WN undercuts in pricing. WN has little loyalty in NY area. People will pick DL/UA connection options out of NYC ahead of WN connection options.

LGA-BWI is a slot squatting tactic until demand out of LGA comes back.


This statement in bold is correct. WN's loyalty in the NY area is on Long Island where people will go to ISP to fly them. Not LGA.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:05 pm

Here are the top remaining contiguous U.S. markets without WN service by number of domestic passengers in 2019:
SYR - 2548695
TYS - 2497971
MSN - 2328717
GSO - 2162887
XNA - 1784227
DAY - 1695915 (previously served by WN)
AVL - 1616569
MDT - 1498445
HSV - 1424801
LEX - 1415135

DFW, EWR, JFK, and SFB carried more domestic passengers in 2019 than SYR, but WN serves DAL in the DFW/DAL market, LGA/ISP in the NYC market, and MCO in the MCO/SFB market.
 
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STT757
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:35 pm

evank516 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
ytib wrote:

Anyone who wants to travel beyond perimeter and depart from LGA needs to connect.


those people can easily fly out of EWR or JFK. People aren't going to connect unless WN undercuts in pricing. WN has little loyalty in NY area. People will pick DL/UA connection options out of NYC ahead of WN connection options.

LGA-BWI is a slot squatting tactic until demand out of LGA comes back.


This statement in bold is correct. WN's loyalty in the NY area is on Long Island where people will go to ISP to fly them. Not LGA.


Islip is WN’s only success at attracting NY origin traffic, however it has shrunk significantly in the past 10-15 years. The Frontiers, Spirits and Allegiants are pushing whatever remains of legacy carriers at airports like TTN, ACY, SWF and ISP out. I suspect WN will be out of ISP before the end of this decade.

WN will continue to try and acquire LaGuardia slots whenever the opportunity allows, but they need a complimentary position in EWR, Kennedy or both. There are cities that are loyal to WN that are outside the LGA perimeter, AUS, SAT, PHX, OAK etc.. that can only be served from EWR and or Kennedy.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
evank516
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:59 pm

STT757 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

those people can easily fly out of EWR or JFK. People aren't going to connect unless WN undercuts in pricing. WN has little loyalty in NY area. People will pick DL/UA connection options out of NYC ahead of WN connection options.

LGA-BWI is a slot squatting tactic until demand out of LGA comes back.


This statement in bold is correct. WN's loyalty in the NY area is on Long Island where people will go to ISP to fly them. Not LGA.


Islip is WN’s only success at attracting NY origin traffic, however it has shrunk significantly in the past 10-15 years. The Frontiers, Spirits and Allegiants are pushing whatever remains of legacy carriers at airports like TTN, ACY, SWF and ISP out. I suspect WN will be out of ISP before the end of this decade.

WN will continue to try and acquire LaGuardia slots whenever the opportunity allows, but they need a complimentary position in EWR, Kennedy or both. There are cities that are loyal to WN that are outside the LGA perimeter, AUS, SAT, PHX, OAK etc.. that can only be served from EWR and or Kennedy.


Pre-Covid I would have agreed with you, but now I'm not so sure. WN has evolved in a way that supports it staying at smaller airports that it wouldn't have even given a thought to prior to the pandemic. See MYR, VPS, and BLI. I don't think they're dropping the axe on ISP anytime soon. They also just announced the resumption of BNA which was one of the first routes it launched back in 1999. Besides, why would WN give up it's only source of a local FF base?
 
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Bruce
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:21 pm

Does anyone know what routes or cities will get Max service in June? The original flight numbers they started with in March are not showing up anymore.
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
Vctony
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:57 pm

They really should renter EWR now that the Maxes are back.
 
SWADawg
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:52 pm

Vctony wrote:
They really should renter EWR now that the Maxes are back.

They will probably be back once the new Terminal opens.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:04 pm

Vctony wrote:
They really should renter EWR now that the Maxes are back.


I agree that WN re-entering EWR is a possibility since WN will never be able to completely fill in the void left behind by WN's pullout of EWR without re-entering EWR due to (a) the slot and perimeter restrictions that are there at LGA and (b) a significant amount of population west of EWR on the New Jersey side of the NYC metropolitan area.

STT757 wrote:
WN will continue to try and acquire LaGuardia slots whenever the opportunity allows, but they need a complimentary position in EWR, Kennedy or both. There are cities that are loyal to WN that are outside the LGA perimeter, AUS, SAT, PHX, OAK etc.. that can only be served from EWR and or Kennedy.


WN had previously operated Saturday-only nonstop service to PHX and SAT from LGA, and WN adding Saturday-only nonstop service to LGA from AUS, OAK, and SAN is also a possibility.

While WN re-adding Saturday-only LGA-PHX/SAT and WN adding Saturday-only LGA-AUS/OAK/SAN nonstop service are possibilities, there are many travelers in beyond-LGA perimeter markets who prefer daily nonstop options to EWR or JFK over Saturday-only nonstop options or connecting options to LGA.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:58 am

Mainland wrote:
News out. Intent to add MYR, EUG, and BLI

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 42087.html

No info on start dates or initial routes/frequency, though the PR says the MYR launch is hoped to be in time for summer and EUG and BLI targeted for the second half of the year.


wnflyguy wrote:
Hopefully this will produce additional announcements of new service, destinations or even better return to profitability.


wnflyguy wrote:
We have some exciting plans plus more opportunities for the MAX8 and Southwest's 50th anniversary so stay tuned.


I probably expect WN to announce plans to serve SYR, TYS, and GSO soon with SYR, TYS, and GSO being top remaining markets in the contiguous U.S. without WN service.

WN had also previously stated that it was considering adding service to ANC and AVL, and WN adding service to these two destinations are also possibilities with ANC and AVL being two of the top U.S. remaining markets without WN service.
 
pranav7478
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:33 am

jplatts wrote:
Vctony wrote:
They really should renter EWR now that the Maxes are back.


I agree that WN re-entering EWR is a possibility since WN will never be able to completely fill in the void left behind by WN's pullout of EWR without re-entering EWR due to (a) the slot and perimeter restrictions that are there at LGA and (b) a significant amount of population west of EWR on the New Jersey side of the NYC metropolitan area.

STT757 wrote:
WN will continue to try and acquire LaGuardia slots whenever the opportunity allows, but they need a complimentary position in EWR, Kennedy or both. There are cities that are loyal to WN that are outside the LGA perimeter, AUS, SAT, PHX, OAK etc.. that can only be served from EWR and or Kennedy.


WN had previously operated Saturday-only nonstop service to PHX and SAT from LGA, and WN adding Saturday-only nonstop service to LGA from AUS, OAK, and SAN is also a possibility.

While WN re-adding Saturday-only LGA-PHX/SAT and WN adding Saturday-only LGA-AUS/OAK/SAN nonstop service are possibilities, there are many travelers in beyond-LGA perimeter markets who prefer daily nonstop options to EWR or JFK over Saturday-only nonstop options or connecting options to LGA.

can lga handle transcon flights? well actually spirit now has lga lax, so i guess it might be possible
Planes I have flown on: CRJ-900, E175, E190, A319, A320, A321, A330-200, 717, 737-700, 737-800, 747-400, 747-8I, 757-200, 767-300, 777-200, 777-300(ER), 787-8, 787-9
Airlines I have flown on: AI, AS, BA, DL, 6E, 9W, B6, KE, SQ, WN, UA, US, VA
 
gr8slvrflt
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:20 am

At the time WN pulled out of Newark, Gary Kelly explained that we had little recognition there and that advertising was too expensive in that market. The New York area was primarily a destination for our existing Customers who overwhelmingly preferred LGA. Growth in Newark was doubtful whereas we had been successful in adding slots at LGA. Bottom line: EWR was a money-loser with little chance of improvement.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:34 pm

Well for the sake of sticking with my posting enjoyable Rumors.
Today at 13:00 Herb GK will be holding a company web cast on its employee SWAlife page giving a WN 2021 battle plan update.
In addition According to sources GK following the Web cast will be jumping on a WN MAX8 ETOPS plane for the first MAX8 ETOPS certification flight #WN8725 DAL-HNL. Then spend a few days visiting the Hawaii stations that he has yet to visit.


Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:46 pm

gr8slvrflt wrote:
At the time WN pulled out of Newark, Gary Kelly explained that we had little recognition there and that advertising was too expensive in that market. The New York area was primarily a destination for our existing Customers who overwhelmingly preferred LGA. Growth in Newark was doubtful whereas we had been successful in adding slots at LGA. Bottom line: EWR was a money-loser with little chance of improvement.


They’re still pumping out the commercials here for a reason I don’t really know why. I’m talking on local channels too.
 
SWADawg
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:03 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
gr8slvrflt wrote:
At the time WN pulled out of Newark, Gary Kelly explained that we had little recognition there and that advertising was too expensive in that market. The New York area was primarily a destination for our existing Customers who overwhelmingly preferred LGA. Growth in Newark was doubtful whereas we had been successful in adding slots at LGA. Bottom line: EWR was a money-loser with little chance of improvement.


They’re still pumping out the commercials here for a reason I don’t really know why. I’m talking on local channels too.

The current disrepair of Terminal A along with a lack of Airplanes due to the MAX grounding was the reason WN left EWR to begin with. Now that the MAX is back, I expect WN to go back to EWR once the new Terminal opens.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:37 pm

SWADawg wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
gr8slvrflt wrote:
At the time WN pulled out of Newark, Gary Kelly explained that we had little recognition there and that advertising was too expensive in that market. The New York area was primarily a destination for our existing Customers who overwhelmingly preferred LGA. Growth in Newark was doubtful whereas we had been successful in adding slots at LGA. Bottom line: EWR was a money-loser with little chance of improvement.


They’re still pumping out the commercials here for a reason I don’t really know why. I’m talking on local channels too.

The current disrepair of Terminal A along with a lack of Airplanes due to the MAX grounding was the reason WN left EWR to begin with. Now that the MAX is back, I expect WN to go back to EWR once the new Terminal opens.


Get ready for the WN has no market presence in the East coast and was loosing to JetBlue in 3 2 1!

In addition to what you said above WN had invested a lot of money in launching Hawaii service. The MAX8 grounding shorted them the badly needed aircraft to achieve that mission. Temporary elimination with its heavily padded aircraft time to cover the EWR flight schedule opened up a lot of flexibility to complete the first round of Hawaii expansion.

I've heard some good speculation about the possible future of WN New York schedule.
The one I like the most has WN making a play for the JFK Slots B6/AA are forced to give up.
Returning to EWR but with fewer flights than before.
And adding SWF feeding the Hudson Valley West Point area.
JFK 7 flights. 4 DEN ,2 MDW, 1 DAL
EWR 8 flight 3 MDW, 3 ATL, 2 DEN
SWF 8 flights 4 BWI,2 MDW, 1 DEN, 1 MCO
LGA returns to its old schedule of 43 flights
ISP builds back up to 18 daily flights with the addition of MDW,DEN,MIA.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:53 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Returning to EWR but with fewer flights than before.
EWR 8 flight 3 MDW, 3 ATL, 2 DEN


In addition to the return of EWR-MDW/DEN nonstop service or WN adding EWR-ATL nonstop service, the return of WN EWR-PHX nonstop service is also a possibility with
(a) PHX being outside of the LGA perimeter,
(b) WN having higher load factors on EWR-PHX than on its other routes out of EWR in 2019, with WN having an average load factor of 91.18% on EWR-PHX in 2019,
(c) NYC being one of the top markets that WN no longer serves nonstop from PHX,
(d) PHX being a hub for WN, and
(e) WN having a significant customer base in Greater Phoenix, Greater Los Vegas, and Southern California to support the return of WN EWR-PHX nonstop service.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:56 pm

If EWR does come back I would hope to see it back to STL. It always had good loads. 80%+ and were pretty even with STL-LGA
 
tphuang
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:03 pm

SWADawg wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
gr8slvrflt wrote:
At the time WN pulled out of Newark, Gary Kelly explained that we had little recognition there and that advertising was too expensive in that market. The New York area was primarily a destination for our existing Customers who overwhelmingly preferred LGA. Growth in Newark was doubtful whereas we had been successful in adding slots at LGA. Bottom line: EWR was a money-loser with little chance of improvement.


They’re still pumping out the commercials here for a reason I don’t really know why. I’m talking on local channels too.

The current disrepair of Terminal A along with a lack of Airplanes due to the MAX grounding was the reason WN left EWR to begin with. Now that the MAX is back, I expect WN to go back to EWR once the new Terminal opens.


I don't know how the gate allocation works, but the situation at EWR is quite different from ORD and IAH. JetBlue will be fighting for every gate available in that terminal and so will be UA. WN should never have left EWR. And yes, their EWR performance was terrible. Don't take my word for it.

Right from Andrew Watterson - Starting at 10:30. They couldn't even find takers to trade for their EWR assets! That's why they just left.
https://crankyflier.com/2019/09/05/the- ... -and-more/
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1749
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:38 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

They’re still pumping out the commercials here for a reason I don’t really know why. I’m talking on local channels too.

The current disrepair of Terminal A along with a lack of Airplanes due to the MAX grounding was the reason WN left EWR to begin with. Now that the MAX is back, I expect WN to go back to EWR once the new Terminal opens.


Get ready for the WN has no market presence in the East coast and was loosing to JetBlue in 3 2 1!

In addition to what you said above WN had invested a lot of money in launching Hawaii service. The MAX8 grounding shorted them the badly needed aircraft to achieve that mission. Temporary elimination with its heavily padded aircraft time to cover the EWR flight schedule opened up a lot of flexibility to complete the first round of Hawaii expansion.

I've heard some good speculation about the possible future of WN New York schedule.
The one I like the most has WN making a play for the JFK Slots B6/AA are forced to give up.
Returning to EWR but with fewer flights than before.
And adding SWF feeding the Hudson Valley West Point area.
JFK 7 flights. 4 DEN ,2 MDW, 1 DAL
EWR 8 flight 3 MDW, 3 ATL, 2 DEN
SWF 8 flights 4 BWI,2 MDW, 1 DEN, 1 MCO
LGA returns to its old schedule of 43 flights
ISP builds back up to 18 daily flights with the addition of MDW,DEN,MIA.

Flyguy


Honestly the schedules you put together make a lot of sense. Perhaps I could see STL and possibly FLL coming back 2x each as they performed better then the rest at EWR. The old WN schedule at EWR, didn’t make sense for anyone. They flew a bunch of long and thin routes once a day. As for LGA, there was actually an article that came out saying LGA performed worse then EWR. I don’t know the authenticity of that though.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:48 pm

tphuang wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

They’re still pumping out the commercials here for a reason I don’t really know why. I’m talking on local channels too.

The current disrepair of Terminal A along with a lack of Airplanes due to the MAX grounding was the reason WN left EWR to begin with. Now that the MAX is back, I expect WN to go back to EWR once the new Terminal opens.


I don't know how the gate allocation works, but the situation at EWR is quite different from ORD and IAH. JetBlue will be fighting for every gate available in that terminal and so will be UA. WN should never have left EWR. And yes, their EWR performance was terrible. Don't take my word for it.

Right from Andrew Watterson - Starting at 10:30. They couldn't even find takers to trade for their EWR assets! That's why they just left.
https://crankyflier.com/2019/09/05/the- ... -and-more/


This is why I'm split on the return to EWR.
I've also heard that AVP,ABE,SWF and JFK might be the final new investment for the NY/NJ outlying catchment area.
I know everyone will be like No way SWF.
But to think of the possibilities from SWF you will need to look at it with your BLI cap on.
It's has a bigger catchment area than JAN.
Norwegian didn't fly there just because wide open and empty.
Covid financial crisis is the only reason why there gone.
So Never say never.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Nicknuzzii
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:11 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
The current disrepair of Terminal A along with a lack of Airplanes due to the MAX grounding was the reason WN left EWR to begin with. Now that the MAX is back, I expect WN to go back to EWR once the new Terminal opens.


I don't know how the gate allocation works, but the situation at EWR is quite different from ORD and IAH. JetBlue will be fighting for every gate available in that terminal and so will be UA. WN should never have left EWR. And yes, their EWR performance was terrible. Don't take my word for it.

Right from Andrew Watterson - Starting at 10:30. They couldn't even find takers to trade for their EWR assets! That's why they just left.
https://crankyflier.com/2019/09/05/the- ... -and-more/


This is why I'm split on the return to EWR.
I've also heard that AVP,ABE,SWF and JFK might be the final new investment for the NY/NJ outlying catchment area.
I know everyone will be like No way SWF.
But to think of the possibilities from SWF you will need to look at it with your BLI cap on.
It's has a bigger catchment area than JAN.
Norwegian didn't fly there just because wide open and empty.
Covid financial crisis is the only reason why there gone.
So Never say never.

Flyguy


Listen they could return to SWF and even make a profit there but it won’t help their relevance in NY/NJ area. I’m also not so sure what their draw to JFK is? JFK domestic O&D is much smaller then EWR. Right now I don’t believe there is a single domestic airline that serves JFK and not EWR.
 
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barney captain
Posts: 2422
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:11 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Well for the sake of sticking with my posting enjoyable Rumors.
Today at 13:00 Herb GK will be holding a company web cast on its employee SWAlife page giving a WN 2021 battle plan update.
In addition According to sources GK following the Web cast will be jumping on a WN MAX8 ETOPS plane for the first MAX8 ETOPS certification flight #WN8725 DAL-HNL. Then spend a few days visiting the Hawaii stations that he has yet to visit.


Flyguy


8725 currently enroute PHX-PHX etops com test run. Don't think GK is involved.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA8725
Last edited by barney captain on Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:13 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
I've also heard that AVP,ABE,SWF and JFK might be the final new investment for the NY/NJ outlying catchment area.


WN already does operate charter flights between AVP and MCO on behalf of Boscov's Travel. I agree that WN adding regularly-scheduled service to AVP might be a possibility with the charter flights that it already operates out of AVP. WN adding regularly-scheduled service out of AVP would also allow WN to sell more seats compared to what it could with the charter flights that it operates on behalf of Boscov's Travel.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:26 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Listen they could return to SWF and even make a profit there but it won’t help their relevance in NY/NJ area. I’m also not so sure what their draw to JFK is? JFK domestic O&D is much smaller then EWR. Right now I don’t believe there is a single domestic airline that serves JFK and not EWR.


WN has nonstop service out of LGA to airports such as MDW, DAL, HOU, and STL that currently have no nonstop service to JFK. WN also already has 1-stop connecting service to LGA from almost all of the beyond-LGA perimeter destinations in the contiguous U.S.

While the lack of WN service out of JFK isn't a huge hole, the main reason why WN is seeking to enter JFK is because WN has an opportunity to secure slots at JFK that might not be available once demand recovers.
 
wnflyguy
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Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:34 pm

barney captain wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well for the sake of sticking with my posting enjoyable Rumors.
Today at 13:00 Herb GK will be holding a company web cast on its employee SWAlife page giving a WN 2021 battle plan update.
In addition According to sources GK following the Web cast will be jumping on a WN MAX8 ETOPS plane for the first MAX8 ETOPS certification flight #WN8725 DAL-HNL. Then spend a few days visiting the Hawaii stations that he has yet to visit.


Flyguy


8725 currently enroute PHX-PHX etops com test run. Don't think GK is involved.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA8725


Ya I honestly didn't think he would be on it.
But he has said recently he has yet to visit the new Hawaii cities but hopes very soon he will get over to Hawaii.
I saw bits and pieces of the WN web cast.
Sounds like Most of the international destinations will return in the Summer time 2021.
With a few exceptions of that will return in the winter time.
More Dots will continue to be added in the fall 2021 and throughout 2022 so they can grow their customers base since the leisure travel will be the bread and butter for short term future.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4744
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:24 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Well for the sake of sticking with my posting enjoyable Rumors.
Today at 13:00 Herb GK will be holding a company web cast on its employee SWAlife page giving a WN 2021 battle plan update.
In addition According to sources GK following the Web cast will be jumping on a WN MAX8 ETOPS plane for the first MAX8 ETOPS certification flight #WN8725 DAL-HNL. Then spend a few days visiting the Hawaii stations that he has yet to visit.


Flyguy


Crap! They forgot to tell HNL!
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Wneast
Posts: 507
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:11 am

Does anyone know how many etops certification flights they fly before the FAA will sign off on its certification?
 
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barney captain
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:21 am

Wneast wrote:
Does anyone know how many etops certification flights they fly before the FAA will sign off on its certification?


We're hearing possibly just one round trip from the mainland.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Wneast
Posts: 507
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:24 am

barney captain wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Does anyone know how many etops certification flights they fly before the FAA will sign off on its certification?


We're hearing possibly just one round trip from the mainland.

Ok so it could be a quick process because it usually only takes a couple weeks from the proving flight right ?
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:04 pm

Just Saw on a FB group The 2nd MAX8 Etops certification flight is underway. It shows PHX-PHX again.
Any Hawaii peeps know what day it's scheduled to arrive in HNL?

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:08 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Just Saw on a FB group The 2nd MAX8 Etops certification flight is underway. It shows PHX-PHX again.
Any Hawaii peeps know what day it's scheduled to arrive in HNL?

Flyguy


I heard HNL-PHX will be "soon" from a source in PHX.
 
Wneast
Posts: 507
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:22 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Just Saw on a FB group The 2nd MAX8 Etops certification flight is underway. It shows PHX-PHX again.
Any Hawaii peeps know what day it's scheduled to arrive in HNL?

Flyguy

Will they be doing a a flight form Las Vegas or Will PHX be all they need for certification ?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2351
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:26 pm

Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Just Saw on a FB group The 2nd MAX8 Etops certification flight is underway. It shows PHX-PHX again.
Any Hawaii peeps know what day it's scheduled to arrive in HNL?

Flyguy

Will they be doing a a flight form Las Vegas or Will PHX be all they need for certification ?

I believe PHX is where WN sends all it's ETOPS birds for overnight MX hanger visits.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Wneast
Posts: 507
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:23 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Just Saw on a FB group The 2nd MAX8 Etops certification flight is underway. It shows PHX-PHX again.
Any Hawaii peeps know what day it's scheduled to arrive in HNL?

Flyguy

Will they be doing a a flight form Las Vegas or Will PHX be all they need for certification ?

I believe PHX is where WN sends all it's ETOPS birds for overnight MX hanger visits.

Flyguy

If we see the HNL to PHX round trip could we see it next week announced or does it take longer to get the certification after those flights ? And what routes do you see being announced on top of the flights to PHX and LAS to hawaii I meant ?
Last edited by Wneast on Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:46 am

Wneast wrote:
If we see the HNL to PHX round trip could we see it next week announced or does it take longer to get the certification after those flights ? And what routes do you see being announced on top of the flights to PHX and LAS?


LAS-BLI/CVG/EUG/GRR/MEM
PHX-BLI/EUG/FAT/BDL
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:28 am

Anyone have a SBA or FAT update.
Heard WN will be using gate 2 at SBA and gate 17 at FAT.
Anyone else have a update?

Thanks Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1460
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:58 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Anyone have a SBA or FAT update.
Heard WN will be using gate 2 at SBA and gate 17 at FAT.
Anyone else have a update?

Thanks Flyguy


Gate 3 at SBA, but all are common use.
 
av8tiongeek
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:23 pm

All SWA flight attendants on leave will return on June 1.
 
WN732
Posts: 948
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:37 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Anyone have a SBA or FAT update.
Heard WN will be using gate 2 at SBA and gate 17 at FAT.
Anyone else have a update?

Thanks Flyguy


Both airports are technically common use but can confirm signage and prep work are done at FAT.
 
WN732
Posts: 948
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:39 pm

WN732 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Anyone have a SBA or FAT update.
Heard WN will be using gate 2 at SBA and gate 17 at FAT.
Anyone else have a update?

Thanks Flyguy


Both airports are technically common use but can confirm signage and prep work are done at FAT.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2351
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:00 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
All SWA flight attendants on leave will return on June 1.

Saw a WN FB group saying all parked 700 will be ungrounded by July with the increase of 680 daily flights to summer schedule including resumption of all but 2 international destinations.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5198
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:52 pm

WN732 wrote:
Both airports are technically common use but can confirm signage and prep work are done at FAT.


For those who have not seen the photos, WN ticket counter signage has been up at FAT for almost a month. They are located between Volaris and Frontier.

http://twitter.com/FresnoAirport/status/1371947812217229312

http://twitter.com/GVWire/status/1370514159792762880
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