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alpine1989
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:23 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I would hope that it’s doesn’t delay there plans wasn’t the HNL to PHX round trip certification flights supposed to be soon ?

Have you heard anymore wnflyguy if they etops is certification is still on track to finish this week or the did the 30 jets getting grounded stopped the process ?

I haven't heard anything.
I did see SWAPA informed its pilots that almost all of it's members will be back on the flight schedule for July 1 2021.
WN peak Flights schedule was around 4700 daily flights with these staffing levels pre Pandemic.
But as of now July and August published flight schedule is about 3800 daily flights.
With all the flight attendants and pilots being called back for summertime flying I'm expecting a pending announcement for extra flights for summer time. Otherwise that's a lot of dead weight getting FULL pay vs ExTO pay.
Would make no sense for WN to increase its wage spending by millions and not use them.
Flyguy


Southwest never operated 4700 daily flights. The pre-COVID peak was approximately 4250.
 
jco613
Posts: 309
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:15 pm

jplatts wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
bomber996 wrote:
How have the loads at MIA been recently? I booked a flight MIA-HOU-MSP for a week from now a few days ago and since then the price has dropped $65 for the one-way. Would this have anything to do with loads? I've never seen price drops like that so close in.

Peace :box:

From what I can recall, people on this thread have said that MIA loads have exceeded expectations, but I don't have any inside knowledge. But I agree that it's certainly weird to see such a price drop that close in. Perhaps they're trying to take advantage of last-minute ticket buyers, like the ULCC airlines regularly do.


Here were the load factors for WN flights out of MIA in the November 2020 - December 2020 time period:
BWI-MIA - 48.89%
HOU-MIA - 56.09%
MDW-MIA - 59.90%
MIA-TPA - 32.98%

Here were the load factors for FLL-BWI/HOU/MDW/MIA on WN in the November 2020 - December 2020 time period:
BWI-FLL - 45.81%
FLL-HOU - 57.68%
FLL-MDW - 52.05%
FLL-TPA - 42.37%

Station load factors for MIA and FLL on WN in the November 2020 - December 2020 time period:
FLL - 52.72%
MIA - 48.96%

I’m really curious how the short flights are doing LF vs 2019. I have had multiple trips FLL-TPA where I had to drive because all 3 airlines have flights that are inconvenient and right now WN, NK, and Silver are flying 1x daily. You can’t sustain short haul 1x daily especially when the times don’t match up for a day trip.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2412
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:16 pm

alpine1989 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Have you heard anymore wnflyguy if they etops is certification is still on track to finish this week or the did the 30 jets getting grounded stopped the process ?

I haven't heard anything.
I did see SWAPA informed its pilots that almost all of it's members will be back on the flight schedule for July 1 2021.
WN peak Flights schedule was around 4700 daily flights with these staffing levels pre Pandemic.
But as of now July and August published flight schedule is about 3800 daily flights.
With all the flight attendants and pilots being called back for summertime flying I'm expecting a pending announcement for extra flights for summer time. Otherwise that's a lot of dead weight getting FULL pay vs ExTO pay.
Would make no sense for WN to increase its wage spending by millions and not use them.
Flyguy


Southwest never operated 4700 daily flights. The pre-COVID peak was approximately 4250.


You are correct.
WN was on track with the pending ungrounding of the MAX8 at the time to have it's biggest organic growth in its 50 yr history. They were forecasting up to 4700 daily flights by 2021 and we're constantly hiring in advance to achieve the growth as soon as the MAX8 became available again. They did throttle back some hiring process after unions raised issues of concerns of over staffing resulting in lower paying lines for Pilots and Flight attendants.
But just as the light at the end of the MAX8 grounding tunnel was approaching and resuming hiring was starting the Pandemic happened and stalled everything for a year.
The fallout from the pandemic has caused some much needed 17 network additions with a rumored half dozen more potentially coming in the fall and winter of 2021.

On April 15 I'm told without fan fare because of ongoing MAX8 wiring issues and a Active shooter situation in SAT airport that WN received MAX8 Etops certification from the FAA and updated all its operation manuals to reflect the new fleet certification for operations. At the time they we set release the announcement of certification along with the EUGENE schedule the SAT situation was unfolding so everything besides the EUG schedule release got placed on hold.

Hopefully on April 22 during the quarterly earnings call we will hear some positive news with flights showing aircraft M8E!

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
jplatts
Posts: 4395
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:53 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
The fallout from the pandemic has caused some much needed 17 network additions with a rumored half dozen more potentially coming in the fall and winter of 2021.


I would likely expect WN to announce plans to serve SYR, TYS, and GSO with SYR, TYS, and GSO being three of the top remaining contiguous U.S. markets without WN service.

WN announcing plans to serve AVL might also happen with WN recently stating that it was considering adding service to AVL and with AVL being one of the top remaining destinations without WN service.

There was also discussion of WN possibly returning to JAC with the new leisure destinations in the Mountain West that were recently added by WN such as BZN, HDN, and MTJ.

WN announcing plans to ANC might happen as ANC is the #1 market in the U.S. by number of domestic passengers in 2019 without WN service, and WN had also previously stated that it was considering adding service to ANC.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4182
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:34 pm

jplatts wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
The fallout from the pandemic has caused some much needed 17 network additions with a rumored half dozen more potentially coming in the fall and winter of 2021.


I would likely expect WN to announce plans to serve SYR, TYS, and GSO with SYR, TYS, and GSO being three of the top remaining contiguous U.S. markets without WN service.


You EXPECT them to add those?
 
OAHU747
Posts: 19
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:52 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
On April 15 I'm told without fan fare because of ongoing MAX8 wiring issues and a Active shooter situation in SAT airport that WN received MAX8 Etops certification from the FAA and updated all its operation manuals to reflect the new fleet certification for operations.


Wow, that's impressive to get ETOPS certification without having done any ETOPS proving runs to Hawaii on the plane you're trying to get certified!
My posts and opinions are mine only and are not from or representative of Southwest Airlines.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2412
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:27 pm

OAHU747 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
On April 15 I'm told without fan fare because of ongoing MAX8 wiring issues and a Active shooter situation in SAT airport that WN received MAX8 Etops certification from the FAA and updated all its operation manuals to reflect the new fleet certification for operations.


Wow, that's impressive to get ETOPS certification without having done any ETOPS proving runs to Hawaii on the plane you're trying to get certified!

Ya I know I know.
But this source has been reliable in the past.
According to him WN was only required to do 2 Communication ETOPS check flights since WN already certified to operate ETOPS flights with the 737. And the MAX8 is just an updated version of the 737 without much different operational systems in-terms of ETOPS flying.
If it's true or not I thought it was worthy to post just on the Fact it would get some worked up because they hate what I post.
I have seen with my own eyes the flight crew MAX8E revision to the manuals .

Enjoy or don't
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Wneast
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:31 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
On April 15 I'm told without fan fare because of ongoing MAX8 wiring issues and a Active shooter situation in SAT airport that WN received MAX8 Etops certification from the FAA and updated all its operation manuals to reflect the new fleet certification for operations.


Wow, that's impressive to get ETOPS certification without having done any ETOPS proving runs to Hawaii on the plane you're trying to get certified!

Ya I know I know.
But this source has been reliable in the past.
According to him WN was only required to do 2 Communication ETOPS check flights since WN already certified to operate ETOPS flights with the 737. And the MAX8 is just an updated version of the 737 without much different operational systems in-terms of ETOPS flying.
If it's true or not I thought it was worthy to post just on the Fact it would get some worked up because they hate what I post.
I have seen with my own eyes the flight crew MAX8E revision to the manuals .

Enjoy or don't
Flyguy

For what’s it’s worth if wnflyguy is right they already did the two 2 communication flights from PHX and then they both came Back to PHX after 5 hours of flying so that might of been all they needed
 
orlandocfi
Posts: 117
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:27 am

WN does not have max ETOPS certification yet. The revisions to manuals and logbooks are a preliminary step to final certification. Proving runs involve operational aspects in addition to actually flying the plane to Hawaii, which hasn’t happened yet. But I imagine the earnings call could shed light on the ongoing max situation and status of ETOPS certification.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4395
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:55 am

Jshank83 wrote:
You EXPECT them to add those?


WN has recently added service to some contiguous U.S. markets that carried fewer domestic passengers in 2019 than SYR, TYS, or GSO, including PSP, SRQ, COS, FAT, BZN, EUG, JAN, SBA, HDN, and MTJ.

There are also some contiguous U.S. airports carrying fewer passengers than SYR, TYS, or GSO that have had WN service prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, including PWM, ICT, MHT, ISP, MAF, ECP, LBB, AMA, HRL, and CRP.

I probably would expect WN to add service to SYR, TYS, and GSO at some point with these destinations being top remaining markets in the contiguous U.S. by number of domestic passengers without WN service. TYS and GSO are also located in two of the largest U.S. metro areas (by population) that aren't currently served by WN.

There was also a post back from 2014 stating that GSO is an important business market and population center that WN is expected to add sooner or later, and that post can be found at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569967#p8442255.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4182
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:47 am

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
You EXPECT them to add those?


WN has recently added service to some contiguous U.S. markets that carried fewer domestic passengers in 2019 than SYR, TYS, or GSO, including PSP, SRQ, COS, FAT, BZN, EUG, JAN, SBA, HDN, and MTJ.

There are also some contiguous U.S. airports carrying fewer passengers than SYR, TYS, or GSO that have had WN service prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, including PWM, ICT, MHT, ISP, MAF, ECP, LBB, AMA, HRL, and CRP.

I probably would expect WN to add service to SYR, TYS, and GSO at some point with these destinations being top remaining markets in the contiguous U.S. by number of domestic passengers without WN service. TYS and GSO are also located in two of the largest U.S. metro areas (by population) that aren't currently served by WN.

There was also a post back from 2014 stating that GSO is an important business market and population center that WN is expected to add sooner or later, and that post can be found at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569967#p8442255.


So you do EXPECT them to add those 3. Strong take to basically state they will be added.
 
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barney captain
Posts: 2431
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:10 am

I can confirm the MAX8 was added to our ETOPS Ops Specs on 4-15.

EDIT - It is in our Ops Specs but the official ETOPS Certification is not in hand as of yet.

Very confusing.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Wneast
Posts: 745
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:16 am

barney captain wrote:
I can confirm the MAX8 was added to our ETOPS Ops Specs on 4-15.

EDIT - It is in our Ops Specs but the official ETOPS Certification is not in hand as of yet.

Very confusing.

So will it be official soon ?
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:31 am

Nobody wants to go to Syracuse...... ;)
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2412
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:22 pm

barney captain wrote:
I can confirm the MAX8 was added to our ETOPS Ops Specs on 4-15.

EDIT - It is in our Ops Specs but the official ETOPS Certification is not in hand as of yet.

Very confusing.

So did some research and during the original Etops certification flight manuals weren't updated until after the certification process was completed.
So yes it's definitely a head scratcher?

In addition others have said adding an additional aircraft type to a current Etops operations isn't a tasking endeavor as the original Certification to become a Etops operator.

High hopes.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:53 pm

There are some international expansion opportunities for WN once demand returns for international travel to the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America, and South America, including:
  • The addition of WN nonstop international flights out of some additional U.S. airports such as LAS, MCI, and PDX
  • The addition of WN nonstop service out of MCO to additional international destinations such as CUN, GCM, NAS, and PUJ with WN having more connecting feed at MCO than it does at FLL due to the bigger WN presence at MCO along with WN having nonstop service to MCO from some destinations that WN doesn't serve nonstop from FLL
  • The addition of HOU-NAS/PLS nonstop service (WN announced plans to serve NAS nonstop from HOU prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, but dropped those plans due to the pandemic)
  • The addition of WN nonstop service out of MDW to a few additional Caribbean destinations such as GCM and NAS
  • WN service to new international destinations such as ACA, ANU, BGI, BOG, BON, CTG, CUR, GEO, GYE, KIN, LIM, MZT, MDE, PAP, POS, UIO, SKB, UVF, SVD, SDQ, and SXM

What are the most likely international adds that WN would make once demand returns for international travel from the U.S. to the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America, and South America? How soon is WN likely to make international adds to the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America, and/or South America?
 
Western727
Posts: 1916
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:23 pm

Any updates on the MAX 8 wiring thing? I'm hoping my 7M8 two weeks from today (WN626 ABQ-DEN) doesn't get swapped, for it's supposed to be my first MAX flight.
Jack @ AUS
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:04 pm

LAX gate 12A that temporary housed the Pilot lounge has been refurbished and is open for business. This new gate gives LAX a lot of flexibility to increase flights. Right now LAX is currently only scheduled to operate around 89 flights this summer down from its peak of 128 daily flights per pandemic. I honestly wouldn't be surprised with the MAX8E certification(? Conflicting information) see WN boldly jump into the LAX-Hawaii market given its success with LGB-Hawaii.
If they don't do LAX-Hawaii I still like the long speculation of the SoCal LA trifecta LGB/ONT/BUR-Hawaii service blanketing the market catchment area.

Enjoy or don't
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9440
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:32 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
You EXPECT them to add those?


WN has recently added service to some contiguous U.S. markets that carried fewer domestic passengers in 2019 than SYR, TYS, or GSO, including PSP, SRQ, COS, FAT, BZN, EUG, JAN, SBA, HDN, and MTJ.

There are also some contiguous U.S. airports carrying fewer passengers than SYR, TYS, or GSO that have had WN service prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, including PWM, ICT, MHT, ISP, MAF, ECP, LBB, AMA, HRL, and CRP.


That line of argument absolutely ignores competition at these non-served airports, their largest markets and relevant WN presence in desired destination cities, and the role of proximate other-carrier hubs. This is single-vector route planning - nothing but airport total passenger numbers. We might as well turn route planning over to a bunch of elementary school kids with no knowledge of markets, geography, or statistics.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:19 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
You EXPECT them to add those?


WN has recently added service to some contiguous U.S. markets that carried fewer domestic passengers in 2019 than SYR, TYS, or GSO, including PSP, SRQ, COS, FAT, BZN, EUG, JAN, SBA, HDN, and MTJ.

There are also some contiguous U.S. airports carrying fewer passengers than SYR, TYS, or GSO that have had WN service prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, including PWM, ICT, MHT, ISP, MAF, ECP, LBB, AMA, HRL, and CRP.


We might as well turn route planning over to a bunch of elementary school kids with no knowledge of markets, geography, or statistics.


It is those reasons that have my head stretching over TYS even way more than my beloved XNA. Above average pop growth, solid university town, the western doorstep to one of the most popular NPs with healthy year round appeal with close by attractions.
 
jplatts
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:21 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
That line of argument absolutely ignores competition at these non-served airports, their largest markets and relevant WN presence in desired destination cities, and the role of proximate other-carrier hubs. This is single-vector route planning - nothing but airport total passenger numbers. We might as well turn route planning over to a bunch of elementary school kids with no knowledge of markets, geography, or statistics.


The number of domestic passengers that SYR carried in 2019 was similar to that of GSP or LIT in 2019. AA and UA also serve more of their hubs nonstop from GSP than they do from SYR, with AA serving DFW nonstop from GSP but not from SYR and with UA serving IAH nonstop from GSP but not from SYR. B6 also doesn't currently serve GSP or LIT, whereas B6 already serves SYR.

AA and UA also serve more of their hubs nonstop from GSP, with AA serving DFW nonstop from GSP but not SYR and with UA serving IAH nonstop from GSP but not from SYR.

WN also already offers 1-stop connecting service to some destinations not served by B6 from GSP and LIT, and WN would be offering 1-stop connecting service to some markets not served by B6 if it adds service to SYR.

GSO and TYS are also both located in two of the largest U.S. metropolitan areas (by CSA population) without WN service. Dayton (OH), Chattanooga, and Harrisburg (PA) are the only other U.S. metropolitan areas with a population of 1,000,000 people (by CSA population) that do not have WN service, but DAY, CHA, and MDT are near other metro areas and airports that have WN service.

While AA serves its CLT, ORD, DFW, PHL, and DCA hubs nonstop from both GSO and RDU, DL and UA serve fewer hubs nonstop from GSO with DL having nonstop service to BOS, LAX, JFK, SLC, SEA from RDU but not GSO and with UA having nonstop service to DEN and IAH from RDU but not GSO. RDU is also served by some airlines that do not serve GSO such as WN, B6, F9, and AS. There is also some leakage to RDU from the Piedmont Triad region with RDU having significantly more options than GSO, even on the airlines that serve both GSO and RDU.

GSO might be able to support WN service, despite the proximity of RDU to the Piedmont Triad region, due to
(a) GSO being one of the top remaining contiguous U.S. markets (by both metropolitan area population and number of domestic passengers per year) without WN service,
(b) there being some leakage to RDU from the GSO market with RDU having significantly more options than GSO,
(c) DL and UA serving fewer hubs nonstop from GSO, and
(d) WN capturing some of the passengers who would otherwise fly out of RDU if it adds service out of GSO.

Even though GSP is only 118 miles great circle distance from TYS, the driving distance to Downtown Knoxville from GSP is 183 miles due to the Appalachian Mountains. BNA is closer driving-distance wise from Downtown Knoxville than GSP is with BNA being 174 miles (by driving distance) from Downtown Knoxville, plus BNA has a much bigger WN presence than GSP does. TYS is far enough (by driving distance) from BNA, GSP, ATL, and CLT to support WN service out of TYS, whereas most of the other top remaining contiguous U.S. airports without WN service are closer (by driving distance) to other airports with WN service.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2412
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:38 pm

A lot of People think AVL is on the short list later this year for WN but adding Both of AVL and TYS would definitely feed the outdoor adventure leisure travelers.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 898
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:56 pm

Eugene is 1x daily to Las Vegas and 2x to Oakland.
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
evank516
Posts: 2264
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:08 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
Nobody wants to go to Syracuse...... ;)


No, but everyone wants to LEAVE Syracuse :rotfl:
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:34 pm

evank516 wrote:
sprxUSA wrote:
Nobody wants to go to Syracuse...... ;)


No, but everyone wants to LEAVE Syracuse :rotfl:


LOL that was going thru my head when I wrote the post. Now if only the SU mbb coach would retire.....
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
TYSflyer
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:44 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:04 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

WN has recently added service to some contiguous U.S. markets that carried fewer domestic passengers in 2019 than SYR, TYS, or GSO, including PSP, SRQ, COS, FAT, BZN, EUG, JAN, SBA, HDN, and MTJ.

There are also some contiguous U.S. airports carrying fewer passengers than SYR, TYS, or GSO that have had WN service prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, including PWM, ICT, MHT, ISP, MAF, ECP, LBB, AMA, HRL, and CRP.


We might as well turn route planning over to a bunch of elementary school kids with no knowledge of markets, geography, or statistics.


It is those reasons that have my head stretching over TYS even way more than my beloved XNA. Above average pop growth, solid university town, the western doorstep to one of the most popular NPs with healthy year round appeal with close by attractions.

You and I both are scratching our heads. I get that WN cannot add every single airport across the country, and they have just seen better opportunities elsewhere. However, to me it appears they are missing a genuinely good opportunity in Knoxville. The influx of new residents has been absurd over the last year. There is a strong tourism component to the area. I realize that it is primarily a regional tourism market but the fly in crowd is not negligible just ask G4. It also has a good business market to tap into once that recovers. I used to think they avoided TYS as they capture many passengers via close proximity to BNA. However, they then started COS making me think that proximity to a large WN station doesn’t matter. I completely understand when they recently announced places like MYR, VPS, FAT and SAV but some of the others have left me a little befuddled.
 
jplatts
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:44 pm

TYSflyer wrote:
I used to think they avoided TYS as they capture many passengers via close proximity to BNA.


I had previously mentioned that TYS is further by driving distance from other airports with WN service than most of the other top remaining contiguous U.S. markets without WN service.

Here are the driving distances to the nearest WN airport (by driving distance) from the downtown areas of some top remaining contiguous U.S. cities without WN service:
Downtown Greensboro, NC to RDU - 66 miles
Downtown Dayton, OH to CVG - 66 miles
Downtown Lexington, KY to SDF - 77 miles
Downtown Asheville, NC to GSP - 78 miles
Downtown Madison, WI to MKE - 84 miles
Downtown Syracuse, NY to ROC - 93 miles
Downtown Columbia, SC to CLT - 96 miles
Downtown Springdale, AR to TUL - 104 miles
Downtown Huntsville, AL to BHM - 106 miles
Downtown Cedar Rapids, IA to DSM - 125 miles
Downtown Burlington, VT to ALB - 143 miles
Downtown Knoxville, TN to BNA - 174 miles
Downtown Springfield, MO to TUL - 177 miles
Downtown Sioux Falls, SD to OMA - 181 miles
 
AC4500
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:51 pm

TYSflyer wrote:
I used to think they avoided TYS as they capture many passengers via close proximity to BNA.


And that's exactly why they should add TYS. Adding TYS would certainly help to retain those loyal WN-fliers in Knoxville (if there are any) who drive to Nashville for their flights. Tennessee as a whole seems to be a major market for WN, so I wonder if they would eventually add CHA and TRI as well.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4182
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:02 pm

AC4500 wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
I used to think they avoided TYS as they capture many passengers via close proximity to BNA.


And that's exactly why they should add TYS. Adding TYS would certainly help to retain those loyal WN-fliers in Knoxville (if there are any) who drive to Nashville for their flights. Tennessee as a whole seems to be a major market for WN, so I wonder if they would eventually add CHA and TRI as well.


Not to say TYS wouldn't be a decent add but saying Tennessee is a major market for WN as a whole seems like a stretch. Its mostly just BNA with some MEM (where it is 3rd behind DL/AA).
 
Runway765
Posts: 346
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:12 am

AC4500 wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
I used to think they avoided TYS as they capture many passengers via close proximity to BNA.


And that's exactly why they should add TYS. Adding TYS would certainly help to retain those loyal WN-fliers in Knoxville (if there are any) who drive to Nashville for their flights. Tennessee as a whole seems to be a major market for WN, so I wonder if they would eventually add CHA and TRI as well.


Exactly, and I’m willing to bet at some point in the future we’ll see TYS-BNA similar to COS-DEN.
 
Wneast
Posts: 745
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:17 am

Runway765 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
I used to think they avoided TYS as they capture many passengers via close proximity to BNA.


And that's exactly why they should add TYS. Adding TYS would certainly help to retain those loyal WN-fliers in Knoxville (if there are any) who drive to Nashville for their flights. Tennessee as a whole seems to be a major market for WN, so I wonder if they would eventually add CHA and TRI as well.


Exactly, and I’m willing to bet at some point in the future we’ll see TYS-BNA similar to COS-DEN.

Does anyone think that they are waiting to add more from COS because it’s a winter type market ? Southwest sounded so confident that they would grow quickly there but we haven’t seen any adds there ?
 
OKCDCA
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:50 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:25 am

Wneast wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:

And that's exactly why they should add TYS. Adding TYS would certainly help to retain those loyal WN-fliers in Knoxville (if there are any) who drive to Nashville for their flights. Tennessee as a whole seems to be a major market for WN, so I wonder if they would eventually add CHA and TRI as well.


Exactly, and I’m willing to bet at some point in the future we’ll see TYS-BNA similar to COS-DEN.

Does anyone think that they are waiting to add more from COS because it’s a winter type market ? Southwest sounded so confident that they would grow quickly there but we haven’t seen any adds there ?

COS is definitely not a winter market. There’s no skiing here... COS is a summer playground.

That said, I’ve never understood why the airport hasn’t tried to take more advantage of ski season. On the busy weekends you can be to Breckenridge in about the same time as you can from DIA with half the hassle.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4531
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:25 am

Wneast wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:

And that's exactly why they should add TYS. Adding TYS would certainly help to retain those loyal WN-fliers in Knoxville (if there are any) who drive to Nashville for their flights. Tennessee as a whole seems to be a major market for WN, so I wonder if they would eventually add CHA and TRI as well.


Exactly, and I’m willing to bet at some point in the future we’ll see TYS-BNA similar to COS-DEN.

Does anyone think that they are waiting to add more from COS because it’s a winter type market ? Southwest sounded so confident that they would grow quickly there but we haven’t seen any adds there ?


What do you mean a winter market? There’s nothing to do here in the winter time. Denver is closer to the resorts. COS is a summer market.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4182
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:26 am

Runway765 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
I used to think they avoided TYS as they capture many passengers via close proximity to BNA.


And that's exactly why they should add TYS. Adding TYS would certainly help to retain those loyal WN-fliers in Knoxville (if there are any) who drive to Nashville for their flights. Tennessee as a whole seems to be a major market for WN, so I wonder if they would eventually add CHA and TRI as well.


Exactly, and I’m willing to bet at some point in the future we’ll see TYS-BNA similar to COS-DEN.


Difference is that there are a lot of other big stations around TYS (BWI/MDW/Texas/Florida/ATL to run it to to get other places in the country. COS-DEN I think is a special case.
 
Runway765
Posts: 346
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:28 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:

And that's exactly why they should add TYS. Adding TYS would certainly help to retain those loyal WN-fliers in Knoxville (if there are any) who drive to Nashville for their flights. Tennessee as a whole seems to be a major market for WN, so I wonder if they would eventually add CHA and TRI as well.


Exactly, and I’m willing to bet at some point in the future we’ll see TYS-BNA similar to COS-DEN.


Difference is that there are a lot of other big stations around TYS (BWI/MDW/Texas/Florida/ATL to run it to to get other places in the country. COS-DEN I think is a special case.


True. Of those, only BWI/MDW are big enough at the moment to offer a wide variety of connections.
 
Wneast
Posts: 745
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:30 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

Exactly, and I’m willing to bet at some point in the future we’ll see TYS-BNA similar to COS-DEN.

Does anyone think that they are waiting to add more from COS because it’s a winter type market ? Southwest sounded so confident that they would grow quickly there but we haven’t seen any adds there ?


What do you mean a winter market? There’s nothing to do here in the winter time. Denver is closer to the resorts. COS is a summer market.

I personally thought it was a summer market but I have heard multiple people say winter and I was like those no skiing
 
BigPlaneGuy13
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:01 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:52 am

Anyone notice how WN flew out Lonestar One and California One for the inuagural flights at IAH and SBA? I thought that was thoughtful. As a current resident in Chicago, in hindsight I'm a bit disappointed that ORD service didn't get the same fanfare. Anyone know if there were any plans for Illinois One that got changed?
 
jplatts
Posts: 4395
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:53 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
Exactly, and I’m willing to bet at some point in the future we’ll see TYS-BNA similar to COS-DEN.


Difference is that there are a lot of other big stations around TYS (BWI/MDW/Texas/Florida/ATL to run it to to get other places in the country. COS-DEN I think is a special case.


BNA and ATL are equidistant from TYS, but there are connecting opportunities at ATL on WN to a few destinations such as JAN, LIT, MEM, and RIC that WN serves nonstop from ATL but not BNA. ATL is also in a better geographical location than BNA is for connections to Florida and MSY from TYS.

WN adding TYS-DAL nonstop service is a possibility if WN adds service to TYS with WN having recently added service from DAL to some other leisure destinations such as BZN, VPS, HDN, MTJ, MYR, SRQ, and SAV.
Last edited by jplatts on Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
alggag
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:34 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:57 am

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
Anyone notice how WN flew out Lonestar One and California One for the inuagural flights at IAH and SBA? I thought that was thoughtful. As a current resident in Chicago, in hindsight I'm a bit disappointed that ORD service didn't get the same fanfare. Anyone know if there were any plans for Illinois One that got changed?


I believe that the old Illinois One was removed from service (lease expired) and that a new frame has not been painted yet.
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:02 am

Yes, original IL One went back to its lessor.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14349
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:03 am

sprxUSA wrote:
Yes, original IL One went back to its lessor.


Does that mean it’s going To United?
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
737MAX7
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:04 am

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
Anyone notice how WN flew out Lonestar One and California One for the inuagural flights at IAH and SBA? I thought that was thoughtful. As a current resident in Chicago, in hindsight I'm a bit disappointed that ORD service didn't get the same fanfare. Anyone know if there were any plans for Illinois One that got changed?

Illinois One (my favorite of our liveries) no longer exists. She was returned to the lessor and due to the pandemic another frame hasn’t taken its place. I don’t think painting birds is at the top of our priority list right now because one side of Tennessee One is looking ROUGH to say the least.
 
Dtwramp
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:58 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:18 am

Tennessee one is currently in the paint shop
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2111
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:37 am

According to FR24, 922 has been in GEG since the Apr 13. I’d imagine she’s getting some new paint.
 
bob75013
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:06 pm

Wneast wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Does anyone think that they are waiting to add more from COS because it’s a winter type market ? Southwest sounded so confident that they would grow quickly there but we haven’t seen any adds there ?


What do you mean a winter market? There’s nothing to do here in the winter time. Denver is closer to the resorts. COS is a summer market.

I personally thought it was a summer market but I have heard multiple people say winter and I was like those no skiing


Harkening back to the Western Pacific days, I always found it just as easy to get to Summit County ski areas from COS as DEN. Colorado 24 to Colorado 9, across Hoosier Pass, an viola, you are there. Taking I-70 traffic into account, time wise, it was a shorter trip than from Den , and back then the trip from Stapleton was shorter than it is now from DIA

Plus the Springs was just plain easier to deal with, a less costly, too.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2412
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:55 pm

Well the Etops certification question answered today with 2 flights flying today from PHX with 2 separate aircraft conducting certification flights. #8725 # 8726.

Enjoy or don't
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
User avatar
BA744PHX
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:42 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:13 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Well the Etops certification question answered today with 2 flights flying today from PHX with 2 separate aircraft conducting certification flights. #8725 # 8726.

Enjoy or don't
Flyguy

Well thats something! What happens from here?
 
avi8
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:58 pm

Interesting to see that WN is barely operating TPA-LGA and TPA-PHL. I wonder what’s going on there.
avi8
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1847
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:01 pm

avi8 wrote:
Interesting to see that WN is barely operating TPA-LGA and TPA-PHL. I wonder what’s going on there.


WN is irrelevant North and East of BWI.
 
User avatar
barney captain
Posts: 2431
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:23 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Well the Etops certification question answered today with 2 flights flying today from PHX with 2 separate aircraft conducting certification flights. #8725 # 8726.

Enjoy or don't
Flyguy



It looks like another set of com validation flights PHX-PHX. Anxious for the first MAX to enter etops airspace.
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