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N737ER
Posts: 19
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 5:37 pm

Runway765 wrote:

So they added more real estate at BWI only to cut their flight count? That doesn’t make sense.


There might be more to it, but to my knowledge: now that Pier A has been built out, I believe A1 to A5 are closing or have already closed, albeit temporarily, as part of rebuilding the baggage handling system. Also if WN has reconsolidated back into A & B, no longer using C10-C14, they are down 5 gates gates for the BWI op (pre-Covid) until A1-A5 reopen.
 
Runway765
Posts: 379
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 6:10 pm

N737ER wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

So they added more real estate at BWI only to cut their flight count? That doesn’t make sense.


There might be more to it, but to my knowledge: now that Pier A has been built out, I believe A1 to A5 are closing or have already closed, albeit temporarily, as part of rebuilding the baggage handling system. Also if WN has reconsolidated back into A & B, no longer using C10-C14, they are down 5 gates gates for the BWI op (pre-Covid) until A1-A5 reopen.


The city fact sheet on SWA.com states they now have 36 gates overall. They have not given up their gates on C, but frankly they don’t need then with the amount of flights they are doing (even pre-COVID).
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2494
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 6:40 pm

Runway765 wrote:
N737ER wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

So they added more real estate at BWI only to cut their flight count? That doesn’t make sense.


There might be more to it, but to my knowledge: now that Pier A has been built out, I believe A1 to A5 are closing or have already closed, albeit temporarily, as part of rebuilding the baggage handling system. Also if WN has reconsolidated back into A & B, no longer using C10-C14, they are down 5 gates gates for the BWI op (pre-Covid) until A1-A5 reopen.


The city fact sheet on SWA.com states they now have 36 gates overall. They have not given up their gates on C, but frankly they don’t need then with the amount of flights they are doing (even pre-COVID).


Pre COVID WN had begun increasing there gates is Cities which has availability because with the addition of The MAX8. The resulted in turn times system wide increasing by 48% to 45 and 55 minutes.
In mega cities WN has also doubled down on its Connecting Banks by 50% so just like a legacy airline at peak times it's needs more gates and off peak seems like they have to many gates like BWI for example. In BWI WN was already trying to get the city to relocate other airlines off of the C gates to further expanded its operations. Given that outlet airlines have scaled down BWI flying WN could easily take advantage of gaining more ground for the post pandemic rebuilding.
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
as739x
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 6:41 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

I am misinformed I guess, it seems odd Oakland is not on this list, just my opinion I guess.


The "problem" with OAK is that it's poorly-located for east-west connections. It can handle SoCal-Northwest just fine but that's more of a niche flow than you see at places like HOU or DEN that can quite literally send folks in all directions. I fly WN a ton, including to the west coast, and I think I've connected at OAK once (on BNA-SNA when going to SNA helped me a lot logistically over an LAX nonstop).


Um, you can say the exact same thing for BWI. It's terrible from a geographic location for connections for anything but up and down the East coast, yet somehow Southwest really makes it work from a connecting stand point. Why OAK isn't on the list, I don't know, but it certainly isn't only due to location because if it were, Baltimore wouldn't be on the list either.


Because BWI is on the East coast, which has a majority of the US population and is closer to more larger cities. Just look at the population density in the eastern time zone. The West is much more spread out, less larger cities. Also, OAK is going to be more O/D traffic, like SFO.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ptcflyer
Posts: 125
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sat May 01, 2021 7:19 pm

A quick turn of the pricing dial for connecting flights vs non stop flights can reduce that percentage in very short order for passengers in Southwest's larger markets. When demand increases, and more flights are full, SW pushes more value on forcing passengers onto non-stop flights... even at less advantageous flight times ... by pricing the non-stops less than a one-stop or connecting itinerary. However, as SWA reaches out to smaller markets, that in turn will naturally lead to more connecting passengers.
 
 
Runway765
Posts: 379
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 10:00 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
N737ER wrote:

There might be more to it, but to my knowledge: now that Pier A has been built out, I believe A1 to A5 are closing or have already closed, albeit temporarily, as part of rebuilding the baggage handling system. Also if WN has reconsolidated back into A & B, no longer using C10-C14, they are down 5 gates gates for the BWI op (pre-Covid) until A1-A5 reopen.


The city fact sheet on SWA.com states they now have 36 gates overall. They have not given up their gates on C, but frankly they don’t need then with the amount of flights they are doing (even pre-COVID).


Pre COVID WN had begun increasing there gates is Cities which has availability because with the addition of The MAX8. The resulted in turn times system wide increasing by 48% to 45 and 55 minutes.
In mega cities WN has also doubled down on its Connecting Banks by 50% so just like a legacy airline at peak times it's needs more gates and off peak seems like they have to many gates like BWI for example. In BWI WN was already trying to get the city to relocate other airlines off of the C gates to further expanded its operations. Given that outlet airlines have scaled down BWI flying WN could easily take advantage of gaining more ground for the post pandemic rebuilding.
Flyguy


But why would they need to? 36 gates would hypothetically give them nearly 300 flights with 8 turns a day. They were not fully utilizing the gates pre covid and they certainly aren’t now. How much big do they need to be at BWI? Answer: not much. They could easily consolidate down to A/B and focus growth elsewhere, such as BNA, DEN, PHX, etc.
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 10:27 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
https://www.flightglobal.com/baltimore-airport-plans-five-gate-expansion-for-southwest/128781.article

https://www.henselphelps.com/hensel-phe ... extension/


Interesting that Gary mentioned Canada. I don't doubt that eventually it will happen. I'm mostly curious how much capacity they are going to add to Canada and which cities will be serviced. I'd also be interested in how much this will affect places like BWI, MCO, etc.
 
orlandocfi
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 10:42 pm

WN732 wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
https://www.flightglobal.com/baltimore-airport-plans-five-gate-expansion-for-southwest/128781.article

https://www.henselphelps.com/hensel-phe ... extension/


Interesting that Gary mentioned Canada. I don't doubt that eventually it will happen. I'm mostly curious how much capacity they are going to add to Canada and which cities will be serviced. I'd also be interested in how much this will affect places like BWI, MCO, etc.


That flightglobal article is from 2018. I think the pandemic has significantly altered WN strategy since the article was published. I’m sure Canada will eventually be in the cards, but it’s on the back burner now.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 11:16 pm

Runway765 wrote:
But why would they need to? 36 gates would hypothetically give them nearly 300 flights with 8 turns a day. They were not fully utilizing the gates pre covid and they certainly aren’t now. How much big do they need to be at BWI? Answer: not much. They could easily consolidate down to A/B and focus growth elsewhere, such as BNA, DEN, PHX, etc.


WN might be able to operate as many as 400 daily departures out of BWI with 36 gates at 11.1 turns per gate per day since the 18 gates used by WN and DL at DAL had an average of 11.1 turns per gate per day prior to the COVID-19 pandemic with 200 daily departures (195 on WN and 5 on DL) out of the 18 gates used by WN and DL at DAL.

WN is also less constrained at BWI than at DAL with
(a) WN not having to share its gates with other airlines at BWI, whereas WN has to share a gate with DL at DAL,
(b) WN being able to flights out of BWI that depart before 6:00 AM Eastern Time, whereas WN doesn't have any flights that depart out of DAL before 6:00 AM Central Time, and
(c) WN being able to operate flights to BWI that arrive at BWI after 12:00 AM Eastern Time, whereas WN doesn't have any flights that are scheduled to arrive at DAL after 12:00 AM.

WN is unlikely to be maxed out at BWI anytime soon with WN currently scheduled to operate 206 daily departures later this year (according to the WN fact sheet), even though I probably would expect WN to continue to make some cuts at BWI until demand recovers.

I also would probably expect WN to further expand at IAD if WN ever comes close to being maxed out at BWI.
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting AirporP

Sat May 01, 2021 11:47 pm

For those saying BWI is a poor connecting point, I fly Southwest almost exclusively these days for my domestic flights, out of PWM in New England. Always connecting at BWI to points South and West. Getting to California is hardly any longer than connecting in NYC, DTW, or ORD. I’ve done SJC, LAS, and SAN to PWM via BWI in under seven hours. Only about an hour longer than the quickest itineraries on UA, or DL or AA.

Just flew SJU-BWI-PWM on Thursday. 737-800 on both legs. 100 % full both flights. Mostly connecting passengers I imagine. Could have gone to the BOS for a nonstop to SJU with a three hour less travel time on another carrier, but would have been no quicker after ground transport to BOS,.

My flights to BWI out of PWM are almost always full, aside from a few early during COVID. I ,Ike to look at people bags tags at the bag claim, and it seems like most of the passenger coming thru BWI to PWM are usually connecting.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 11:58 pm

orlandocfi wrote:
WN732 wrote:
Interesting that Gary mentioned Canada. I don't doubt that eventually it will happen. I'm mostly curious how much capacity they are going to add to Canada and which cities will be serviced. I'd also be interested in how much this will affect places like BWI, MCO, etc.


That flightglobal article is from 2018. I think the pandemic has significantly altered WN strategy since the article was published. I’m sure Canada will eventually be in the cards, but it’s on the back burner now.


I have previously mentioned the possibility of WN adding BWI-YUL nonstop service with
(a) the limited competition that is currently there on WAS-YUL with UA and AC (both JV partners in Star Alliance) being the only airlines serving YUL nonstop from WAS,
(b) YUL having nonstop service from fewer U.S. cities than YYZ,
(c) WN having significant connecting feed from other U.S. markets to support BWI-YUL nonstop service, and
(d) YUL being further from any U.S. airports currently served by WN whereas YYZ is closer to a U.S. airport served by WN with BUF being closer to YYZ than ALB is to YUL.
Last edited by jplatts on Sun May 02, 2021 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2494
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 11:59 pm

Runway765 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

The city fact sheet on SWA.com states they now have 36 gates overall. They have not given up their gates on C, but frankly they don’t need then with the amount of flights they are doing (even pre-COVID).


Pre COVID WN had begun increasing there gates is Cities which has availability because with the addition of The MAX8. The resulted in turn times system wide increasing by 48% to 45 and 55 minutes.
In mega cities WN has also doubled down on its Connecting Banks by 50% so just like a legacy airline at peak times it's needs more gates and off peak seems like they have to many gates like BWI for example. In BWI WN was already trying to get the city to relocate other airlines off of the C gates to further expanded its operations. Given that outlet airlines have scaled down BWI flying WN could easily take advantage of gaining more ground for the post pandemic rebuilding.
Flyguy


But why would they need to? 36 gates would hypothetically give them nearly 300 flights with 8 turns a day. They were not fully utilizing the gates pre covid and they certainly aren’t now. How much big do they need to be at BWI? Answer: not much. They could easily consolidate down to A/B and focus growth elsewhere, such as BNA, DEN, PHX, etc.


Well History has proven the last time WN scaled back it's gate space at BWI during a downturn in traffic it opened that door for competition to launch a invasion. Last time it Was AirTran this time Spirit been actively expanding in BWI. Even Allegiant growing outside it's former self.
Then factor In seasonal weather events having more gate flexibility to accommodate delays and recover the operations alone makes scene to keep more gates.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting AirporP

Sun May 02, 2021 12:01 am

pwm2txlhopper wrote:


For those saying BWI is a poor connecting point, I fly Southwest almost exclusively these days for my domestic flights, out of PWM in New England. Always connecting at BWI to points South and West. Getting to California is hardly any longer than connecting in NYC, DTW, or ORD. I’ve done SJC, LAS, and SAN to PWM via BWI in under seven hours. Only about an hour longer than the quickest itineraries on UA, or DL or AA.

Just flew SJU-BWI-PWM on Thursday. 737-800 on both legs. 100 % full both flights. Mostly connecting passengers I imagine. Could have gone to the BOS for a nonstop to SJU with a three hour less travel time on another carrier, but would have been no quicker after ground transport to BOS,.

My flights to BWI out of PWM are almost always full, aside from a few early during COVID. I ,Ike to look at people bags tags at the bag claim, and it seems like most of the passenger coming thru BWI to PWM are usually connecting.


I've connected in BWI several times myself and I live in STL. The first time I went to PWM I flew an STL-TPA-BWI then connected to PWM. The STL-TPA-BWI was $40 cheaper so being an av-geek I took the long way there. And believe it or not I was one of a dozen people flying through from STL to BWI via TPA.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer Night's Dream
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting AirporP

Sun May 02, 2021 12:09 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
pwm2txlhopper wrote:


For those saying BWI is a poor connecting point, I fly Southwest almost exclusively these days for my domestic flights, out of PWM in New England. Always connecting at BWI to points South and West. Getting to California is hardly any longer than connecting in NYC, DTW, or ORD. I’ve done SJC, LAS, and SAN to PWM via BWI in under seven hours. Only about an hour longer than the quickest itineraries on UA, or DL or AA.

Just flew SJU-BWI.


I've connected in BWI several times myself and I live in STL. The first time I went to PWM I flew an STL-TPA-BWI then connected to PWM. The STL-TPA-BWI was $40 cheaper so being an av-geek I took the long way there. And believe it or not I was one of a dozen people flying through from STL to BWI via TPA.


Yeah, I tried Frontier on LAS-MCO-PWM last year. Just to try them out because I’d never flown them. When you’re doing 600MPH, even the long route isn’t really that much longer when you have nothing else to do anyway.
 
orlandocfi
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 12:57 am

jplatts wrote:
orlandocfi wrote:
WN732 wrote:
Interesting that Gary mentioned Canada. I don't doubt that eventually it will happen. I'm mostly curious how much capacity they are going to add to Canada and which cities will be serviced. I'd also be interested in how much this will affect places like BWI, MCO, etc.


That flightglobal article is from 2018. I think the pandemic has significantly altered WN strategy since the article was published. I’m sure Canada will eventually be in the cards, but it’s on the back burner now.


I have previously mentioned the possibility of WN adding BWI-YUL nonstop service with
(a) the limited competition that is currently there on WAS-YUL with UA and AC (both JV partners in Star Alliance) being the only airlines serving YUL nonstop from WAS,
(b) YUL having nonstop service from fewer U.S. cities than YYZ,
(c) WN having significant connecting feed from other U.S. markets to support BWI-YUL nonstop service, and
(d) YUL being further from any U.S. airports currently served by WN whereas YYZ is closer to a U.S. airport served by WN with BUF being closer to YYZ than ALB is to YUL.


I certainly agree that YUL would be at the top of the list when service to Canada begins. I think WN management has their hands full at the moment, navigating the pandemic, max issues, and Hawaii/ETOPS, so they don’t have the appetite to experiment with service to Canada.
wnflyguy wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:

Pre COVID WN had begun increasing there gates is Cities which has availability because with the addition of The MAX8. The resulted in turn times system wide increasing by 48% to 45 and 55 minutes.
In mega cities WN has also doubled down on its Connecting Banks by 50% so just like a legacy airline at peak times it's needs more gates and off peak seems like they have to many gates like BWI for example. In BWI WN was already trying to get the city to relocate other airlines off of the C gates to further expanded its operations. Given that outlet airlines have scaled down BWI flying WN could easily take advantage of gaining more ground for the post pandemic rebuilding.
Flyguy


But why would they need to? 36 gates would hypothetically give them nearly 300 flights with 8 turns a day. They were not fully utilizing the gates pre covid and they certainly aren’t now. How much big do they need to be at BWI? Answer: not much. They could easily consolidate down to A/B and focus growth elsewhere, such as BNA, DEN, PHX, etc.


Well History has proven the last time WN scaled back it's gate space at BWI during a downturn in traffic it opened that door for competition to launch a invasion. Last time it Was AirTran this time Spirit been actively expanding in BWI. Even Allegiant growing outside it's former self.
Then factor In seasonal weather events having more gate flexibility to accommodate delays and recover the operations alone makes scene to keep more gates.

Flyguy


I was becoming concerned about NK ratcheting up their ops in BWI so I hope management is planning some defensive maneuvering with gate allocation. Gotta protect that turf!
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting AirporP

Sun May 02, 2021 1:16 am

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Yeah, I tried Frontier on LAS-MCO-PWM last year. Just to try them out because I’d never flown them. When you’re doing 600MPH, even the long route isn’t really that much longer when you have nothing else to do anyway.


Exactly. What's a few minutes out of your way?
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer Night's Dream
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 2:25 am

orlandocfi wrote:
I was becoming concerned about NK ratcheting up their ops in BWI so I hope management is planning some defensive maneuvering with gate allocation. Gotta protect that turf!


SAL, DFW, and IAH will be the only airports that have nonstop service out of BWI on NK but not on WN once WN starts BWI-MYR nonstop service, but WN already serves DAL and HOU nonstop from both BWI and DCA in the Baltimore/Washington region.

Most of the NK destinations in the contiguous U.S. already have daily nonstop service out of BWI on WN, and the domestic adds within the contiguous U.S. that NK would be making out of BWI would likely be to destinations that already have daily nonstop service out of BWI on WN.

WN also already has multiple daily nonstop flights out of BWI to most of the destinations that both WN and NK serve nonstop from BWI.

There are some international destinations in Central America, South America, and the Caribbean that are currently served by NK but not WN, and NK adding nonstop service out of BWI to a few additional international destinations that aren't served by WN might be a possibility.
 
Shakinthefat
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 6:56 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sun May 02, 2021 2:29 am

zuckie13 wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
There just isn't the demand to run all of the point to point ones right now, so for financial reasons, more connections happen.


Sounds similar to what the major legacy carriers said after deregulation. I see WN operations a more hub-n-spoke type from here on out.
 
Italianflyer
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Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:06 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sun May 02, 2021 3:31 am

I'm surprised STL is so down on the list. But let's get real, WN sells some pretty off the wall connections via random 'focus cities'.
Ex: a last minute SDF to LAS offered a BWI connect option. Another fun one was SDF to STL via MCO. I guess if they offer it people must be buying it.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Sun May 02, 2021 4:17 am

Runway765 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/southwest-transit-passengers/

Shows what 2 years and a pandemic can do to one carrier's network strategy.


1. Surprised LAS is as high as it is. I would have thought that was more of an O&D station. I would have thought PHX would be higher.

2. Wouldn't be surprised to see BNA move up to the top 5 someday.


WN has LAS down to a science. They do lots of connections rather then flying empty planes. The demand is super day of the week up and down probably more then any city in america as weekends and events are such a focus. They do lots of connections on the off days. On a friday when everyone is heading into las those flights are oversold with almost all o&d into vegas. Those same planes out of las are all connections on a Wednesday when there isn't that much demand in or out. They get to fly pretty full planes using las as a connection city when there's less demand and o&d when the demand is high. Keep the planes full
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 12:24 pm

orlandocfi wrote:
WN732 wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
https://www.flightglobal.com/baltimore-airport-plans-five-gate-expansion-for-southwest/128781.article

https://www.henselphelps.com/hensel-phe ... extension/


Interesting that Gary mentioned Canada. I don't doubt that eventually it will happen. I'm mostly curious how much capacity they are going to add to Canada and which cities will be serviced. I'd also be interested in how much this will affect places like BWI, MCO, etc.


That flightglobal article is from 2018. I think the pandemic has significantly altered WN strategy since the article was published. I’m sure Canada will eventually be in the cards, but it’s on the back burner now.


Yes, it is from 2018. WN was planning a new building with new gates which has since been completed. What their strategy will be is yet to be seen.
 
SWAFA27
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:44 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 5:18 pm

Wow, LAX-HA nonstops in June!!
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 5:22 pm

SWAFA27 wrote:
Wow, LAX-HA nonstops in June!!

Are you seeing that loaded or how do you know ?
 
SWAFA27
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:44 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 5:25 pm

In the FA bids for June
I’m seeing LAX-OGG, HNL, LIH
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co
 
AC4500
Posts: 684
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 5:49 pm

Wneast wrote:
SWAFA27 wrote:
Wow, LAX-HA nonstops in June!!

Are you seeing that loaded or how do you know ?

Not seeing it on southwest.com. It must be through an internal schedule accessible by WN employees.
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 5:55 pm

AC4500 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
SWAFA27 wrote:
Wow, LAX-HA nonstops in June!!

Are you seeing that loaded or how do you know ?

Not seeing it on southwest.com. It must be through an internal schedule accessible by WN employees.

I wonder if are just going to see the LAX flights start in June and the rest of the flights start in July ? The new flights will obviously announce together should be interesting if we see something soon
 
formeraa
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:27 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 7:45 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
smokeybandit wrote:
Any idea if this is covid-motivated or if this was just a long time coming?


I can only speculate - but with many search engines now including options to include baggage into pricing and displaying results, probably made sense for WN to finally make the switch (furthered by the COVID environment). If COVID wasn’t happening, they probably wouldn’t have pulled the trigger just yet imo, but with such a low demand environment, you have to find it wherever you can.

I regularly see WN matching UA or other legacy BE fares, but obviously with baggage included. That should help their position on these search engines if customers include baggage selections. A big fear of theirs was customers booking away from WN due to difference in pricing and how that may appear when booking if you’re not just going right to Southwest.com


The flip side is also true. There are many times when WN is much higher than everyone else. Then, they will fall way down in thee search, even with baggage.
 
wnflyguy
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Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 8:15 pm

SWAFA27 wrote:
In the FA bids for June
I’m seeing LAX-OGG, HNL, LIH


What LAX,LAS and PHX-Hawaii in June?
You Don't Say!
Tread lightly with this information because they might label you Crazy like a Flyguy!
Mic Drop!

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Jonboi252009
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:46 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 8:23 pm

Sooooooo the flights aren't posted for sale yet but Southwest will be offering nonstop service to Hawaii in the last week ofJune....They are posted on crewmembers bid lines for June but this hasn't been announced nor posted for sale yet....STAY TUNED!!!
LAX-HNL
LAX-LIH
LAX-KOA
LAX-OGG
PHX-HNL
OAK-HNL
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 8:23 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
SWAFA27 wrote:
In the FA bids for June
I’m seeing LAX-OGG, HNL, LIH


What LAX,LAS and PHX-Hawaii in June?
You Don't Say!
Tread lightly with this information because they might label you Crazy like a Flyguy!
Mic Drop!

Flyguy

Are we going to see those with increase of other cities like SAN and LGB and more at OAK that would be a huge increase in Hawaii flying ?
 
Jonboi252009
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:46 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 8:41 pm

It also looks like there will be a PHX-OGG and a LAS-OGG nonstop the last week in June as well.
 
asteriskceo
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 10:31 pm

SWAFA27 wrote:
In the FA bids for June
I’m seeing LAX-OGG, HNL, LIH

Don’t forget PHX-HNL. It’s in there ;)


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joeblow10
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 10:46 pm

LAX-everything but KOA?

Interesting...
 
asteriskceo
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 11:04 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
LAX-everything but KOA?

Interesting...

LAX-KOA is in there as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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OzarkD9S
Posts: 5988
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 11:13 pm

Now if they could just schedule red-eyes to make it easier to get to Hawaii from everything east of the Rockies.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer Night's Dream
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 2:04 am

Jonboi252009 wrote:
It also looks like there will be a PHX-OGG and a LAS-OGG nonstop the last week in June as well.

Should we see LAS- KOA and LIH and PHX to LIH and KOA are we going to see SAN to the other three island WN said that was long planned before the max and pandemic I would imagine we see those could other routes like those maybe be added in July ?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2494
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 4:53 am

Well everything I've seen tonight The Hawaii schedules are in for a big revision for June and beyond.
LAX,PHX,LAS are new and all the other cities Have flights retimed or at least fluctuate thru out that week.
SAN peeps will be happy!

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2494
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 4:55 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
Now if they could just schedule red-eyes to make it easier to get to Hawaii from everything east of the Rockies.

As of Right Now Still NO Red eyes on all the screens shots I've seen.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 5:00 am

wnflyguy wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
Now if they could just schedule red-eyes to make it easier to get to Hawaii from everything east of the Rockies.

As of Right Now Still NO Red eyes on all the screens shots I've seen.

Flyguy

Do you think that the red eyes will be added soon to those cities if there is no red eyes from at least what your seeing is Oakland to HNL flying just increasing from what you know as day time flying ?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2494
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 5:23 am

Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
Now if they could just schedule red-eyes to make it easier to get to Hawaii from everything east of the Rockies.

As of Right Now Still NO Red eyes on all the screens shots I've seen.

Flyguy

Do you think that the red eyes will be added soon to those cities if there is no red eyes from at least what your seeing is Oakland to HNL flying just increasing from what you know as day time flying ?


Everything I've seen is the stander WN day time only flying with early departures and late arrivals. That are oddly still arriving before the dreaded System 0300 Herb/CST reboot. This has me guessing the MAX8 and NG8 will not be transferring to the new Maintenix system before June.
Putting the screen shots together it definitely looks like WN will need a few extra gates in HNL to accommodate the expansion.
One source said the expansion being planned with or without the MAX8 Etops certification since they still have ample fleet flexibility to free up the 32 NG Etops birds to grow the Hawaiian market. Once the certification is completed they will just transfer the MAX8 Etops birds in to the Hawaii flying replacing the NG8 aircraft.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
Last edited by wnflyguy on Mon May 03, 2021 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 5:27 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
As of Right Now Still NO Red eyes on all the screens shots I've seen.

Flyguy

Do you think that the red eyes will be added soon to those cities if there is no red eyes from at least what your seeing is Oakland to HNL flying just increasing from what you know as day time flying ?


Everything I've seen is the stander WN day time only flying with early departures and late arrivals. That are oddly still arriving before the dreaded System 0300 Herb/CST reboot. This has me guessing the MAX8 and NG8 will not be transferring to the new Maintenix system before June.
Putting the screen shots together definitely looks like WN gonna have to use a few extra gates in HNL to accommodate the expansion.
One source said the expansion being planned with or without the MAX8 Etops certification since they still have ample fleet flexibility to free up the 32 NG Etops birds to grow the Hawaiian market. Once certification is completed they will just transfer the MAX8 Etops birds in to the Hawaii flying.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
so do you suspect we see a announcement this week or not for another couple weeks with start starting to get bid on ?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2494
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 5:35 am

Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Do you think that the red eyes will be added soon to those cities if there is no red eyes from at least what your seeing is Oakland to HNL flying just increasing from what you know as day time flying ?


Everything I've seen is the stander WN day time only flying with early departures and late arrivals. That are oddly still arriving before the dreaded System 0300 Herb/CST reboot. This has me guessing the MAX8 and NG8 will not be transferring to the new Maintenix system before June.
Putting the screen shots together definitely looks like WN gonna have to use a few extra gates in HNL to accommodate the expansion.
One source said the expansion being planned with or without the MAX8 Etops certification since they still have ample fleet flexibility to free up the 32 NG Etops birds to grow the Hawaiian market. Once certification is completed they will just transfer the MAX8 Etops birds in to the Hawaii flying.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
so do you suspect we see a announcement this week or not for another couple weeks with start starting to get bid on ?

With WN latest June schedule revision everything seems to start on June 13. I'm going to guess Hawaii would probably start that weekend also.

Some speculation has been made that because June is WN 50th birthday there doubling the mainland flying by 50 % so $50 one way fares aren't to far fetched. They did it with the first flights and it created a huge media frenzy!

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 5:39 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:

Everything I've seen is the stander WN day time only flying with early departures and late arrivals. That are oddly still arriving before the dreaded System 0300 Herb/CST reboot. This has me guessing the MAX8 and NG8 will not be transferring to the new Maintenix system before June.
Putting the screen shots together definitely looks like WN gonna have to use a few extra gates in HNL to accommodate the expansion.
One source said the expansion being planned with or without the MAX8 Etops certification since they still have ample fleet flexibility to free up the 32 NG Etops birds to grow the Hawaiian market. Once certification is completed they will just transfer the MAX8 Etops birds in to the Hawaii flying.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
so do you suspect we see a announcement this week or not for another couple weeks with start starting to get bid on ?

With WN latest June schedule revision everything seems to start on June 13. I'm going to guess Hawaii would probably start that weekend also.

Some speculation has been made that because June is WN 50th birthday there doubling the mainland flying by 50 % so $50 one way fares aren't to far fetched. They did it with the first flights and it created a huge media frenzy!

Flyguy

Do you know about how many main land flights they do now or if there increasing flying by 50 percent how many more flights there planning from what you are seeing ?
 
WN732
Posts: 1014
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 1:08 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:

Everything I've seen is the stander WN day time only flying with early departures and late arrivals. That are oddly still arriving before the dreaded System 0300 Herb/CST reboot. This has me guessing the MAX8 and NG8 will not be transferring to the new Maintenix system before June.
Putting the screen shots together definitely looks like WN gonna have to use a few extra gates in HNL to accommodate the expansion.
One source said the expansion being planned with or without the MAX8 Etops certification since they still have ample fleet flexibility to free up the 32 NG Etops birds to grow the Hawaiian market. Once certification is completed they will just transfer the MAX8 Etops birds in to the Hawaii flying.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
so do you suspect we see a announcement this week or not for another couple weeks with start starting to get bid on ?

With WN latest June schedule revision everything seems to start on June 13. I'm going to guess Hawaii would probably start that weekend also.

Some speculation has been made that because June is WN 50th birthday there doubling the mainland flying by 50 % so $50 one way fares aren't to far fetched. They did it with the first flights and it created a huge media frenzy!

Flyguy


If you remember on their 25th anniversary they did $25 fares anywhere in the system for a few days.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 1:30 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
As of Right Now Still NO Red eyes on all the screens shots I've seen.

Flyguy

Do you think that the red eyes will be added soon to those cities if there is no red eyes from at least what your seeing is Oakland to HNL flying just increasing from what you know as day time flying ?


Everything I've seen is the stander WN day time only flying with early departures and late arrivals. That are oddly still arriving before the dreaded System 0300 Herb/CST reboot. This has me guessing the MAX8 and NG8 will not be transferring to the new Maintenix system before June.
Putting the screen shots together it definitely looks like WN will need a few extra gates in HNL to accommodate the expansion.
One source said the expansion being planned with or without the MAX8 Etops certification since they still have ample fleet flexibility to free up the 32 NG Etops birds to grow the Hawaiian market. Once the certification is completed they will just transfer the MAX8 Etops birds in to the Hawaii flying replacing the NG8 aircraft.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

Ok... on this one your source is incorrect... I have scoured the flight trackers and history of WN flights to HI, and WN only has 28 ETOPS 800NG aircraft, with registrations between 8301 and 8329, with no 8304. It appears with the flying right now it takes about 19/20 aircraft to accomplish it. With all the additional flying mentioned, there is no way to cover all of those hours with just another 6/7 aircraft. There has to be 2/3 “spare” ETOPS aircraft each day for maintenance and delay issues I would assume. With ETOPS turns looking like an average of 1 hour 15 minutesish, just the ground time adds up. WN would be HARD pressed to get more than 2 ETOPS flights a day out of each of those 6/7 aircraft, IMHO, without red eyes. This flying would have been announced if it were not dependent on the MAX8 getting ETOPS certification. No reason to delay added flights for sale as HI travelers are not really last second bookers, I would think. There would be most likely ZERO slack time for delays with just the NG fleet covering everything. Looking through flights, just yesterday there was over a 4 hour delay on 1 flight, and that would be HAVOC on the new schedule. Your sources hit some home runs, but this I believe is a strikeout. I LOVE BASEBALL......and I will eat crow if wrong
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
zuckie13
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Mon May 03, 2021 1:40 pm

Shakinthefat wrote:
zuckie13 wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
There just isn't the demand to run all of the point to point ones right now, so for financial reasons, more connections happen.


Sounds similar to what the major legacy carriers said after deregulation. I see WN operations a more hub-n-spoke type from here on out.


I'm not convinced of that. Right now, instead of running two or three half empty planes to/from a destination, they're routing those passengers on connections. When demand will fill those planes again, it'll be back to business as usual.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2494
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 1:49 pm

WN732 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
so do you suspect we see a announcement this week or not for another couple weeks with start starting to get bid on ?

With WN latest June schedule revision everything seems to start on June 13. I'm going to guess Hawaii would probably start that weekend also.

Some speculation has been made that because June is WN 50th birthday there doubling the mainland flying by 50 % so $50 one way fares aren't to far fetched. They did it with the first flights and it created a huge media frenzy!

Flyguy


If you remember on their 25th anniversary they did $25 fares anywhere in the system for a few days.


Oh ya and the Monday night football promotion every nonstop flights After 7pm was $25 dollars.
Good times!

I've seen all the scheduled Flight times from the screen shot of the bids my friend sent me.
I'm taking the high road on not posting anything since it's not published yet.
I'm stoked LAX is getting Hawaii flights but personally I would have rather seen the SoCal Trifecta with a increase of Hawaii flights from LGB along with BUR and ONT being added.

LGB Hawaii has been a huge success I'm just hoping it doesn't start to whittle away with LAX opening up.
I know it can pull a lot of from Orange County but with United doing SNA Hawaii again it's definitely going to be a uphill battle.
Then Next year the MAX7 ETOPS arrives I'm sure SNA in the cards for Hawaii also but that could spell doom for LGB-Hawaii.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest's Top Ten Connecting Airports

Mon May 03, 2021 2:27 pm

Information on the BWI can be found in the July 19, 2018 Board of Public Works transcript located at

https://bpw.maryland.gov/Pages/meetingD ... _year.aspx

Under select a year 2018 then 7/19/2018 transcript.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2494
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 2:31 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Do you think that the red eyes will be added soon to those cities if there is no red eyes from at least what your seeing is Oakland to HNL flying just increasing from what you know as day time flying ?


Everything I've seen is the stander WN day time only flying with early departures and late arrivals. That are oddly still arriving before the dreaded System 0300 Herb/CST reboot. This has me guessing the MAX8 and NG8 will not be transferring to the new Maintenix system before June.
Putting the screen shots together it definitely looks like WN will need a few extra gates in HNL to accommodate the expansion.
One source said the expansion being planned with or without the MAX8 Etops certification since they still have ample fleet flexibility to free up the 32 NG Etops birds to grow the Hawaiian market. Once the certification is completed they will just transfer the MAX8 Etops birds in to the Hawaii flying replacing the NG8 aircraft.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

Ok... on this one your source is incorrect... I have scoured the flight trackers and history of WN flights to HI, and WN only has 28 ETOPS 800NG aircraft, with registrations between 8301 and 8329, with no 8304. It appears with the flying right now it takes about 19/20 aircraft to accomplish it. With all the additional flying mentioned, there is no way to cover all of those hours with just another 6/7 aircraft. There has to be 2/3 “spare” ETOPS aircraft each day for maintenance and delay issues I would assume. With ETOPS turns looking like an average of 1 hour 15 minutesish, just the ground time adds up. WN would be HARD pressed to get more than 2 ETOPS flights a day out of each of those 6/7 aircraft, IMHO, without red eyes. This flying would have been announced if it were not dependent on the MAX8 getting ETOPS certification. No reason to delay added flights for sale as HI travelers are not really last second bookers, I would think. There would be most likely ZERO slack time for delays with just the NG fleet covering everything. Looking through flights, just yesterday there was over a 4 hour delay on 1 flight, and that would be HAVOC on the new schedule. Your sources hit some home runs, but this I believe is a strikeout. I LOVE BASEBALL......and I will eat crow if wrong

This morning I'm still putting all the all these new flight time together. As of right now it looks like Inter island flying may have been cut down on Some days of the week to accommodate additional flights.
And compared to the current schedule looks like All the random mix use of west coast turns before and after a Etops flight with NG8 have been eliminated with the exception of flights to LAS and PHX for overnight MX checks.

In past and current schedules it's not uncommon to see WN operate a NG8E on stuff like ONT-DEN-LAX-SJC-Hawaii. Or DEN-LGB-OGG-LGB-DEN.

Now it seems like they have eliminated that stuff
With the aircraft doing LAX-HNL-LAX-HNL and HNL-LAX-HNL-LAX-HNL .

This new revision definitely pushes the envelope of the MAX8/NG 03:00 Herb MX daily schedule reboot.

Sources saying the final Etops certification flights scheduled later this week.

Its growth and new revenue so what ever they schedule it's a win win in my book.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
Last edited by wnflyguy on Mon May 03, 2021 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!

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