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jplatts
Posts: 4528
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 13, 2021 6:38 pm

nine4nine wrote:
LAX is so over saturated with Hawaii flights between 7 carriers 4 of whom also have wide body capacity. I thought for sure WN would have gone along the lines of their LGB strategy and added ONT and BUR for a triangle service before ever adding LAX.


One issue that is there at BUR and SNA have is that both of these airports have shorter runways. BUR is limited to 14 gates, SNA has slot restrictions, and there is a limit to the number of annual passengers at SNA.

WN would also have more connecting feed at LAX than it would at BUR, SNA, or ONT due to the bigger WN presence at LAX and WN having nonstop service out of LAX to some destinations that it doesn't serve nonstop from BUR, SNA, or ONT.
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 13, 2021 6:41 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
"In case you fell asleep last March and woke up realizing it is actually May 2021, like I did, you got up just in time because May is bringing some record-breaking growth in our Hawaii service! Ever since our service to the Hawaiian Islands began in 2019, it has been our vision to be Aloha strong in these beautiful destinations. We are so excited to share the details of this expansion, especially following the unprecedented challenges last year brought.

This monumental expansion brings our total gateways count up to eight, including the three new gateway cities added with daily nonstop service to Honolulu Oahu (HNL) and Kahului, Maui (OGG): Las Vegas (LAS), Los Angeles (LAX), and Phoenix (PHX)! As you might have already guessed, these three gateways also result in greater network connectivity for more Stations in the central U.S. and stretching as far east as Nashville (BNA). For example, Customers in Nashville (BNA), Dallas (DAL), and Kansas City (MCI)–just to name a few–will now enjoy daily round trip service to Honolulu, Oahu (HNL) and Kahului, Maui (OGG). Although this growth marks a huge milestone for Southwest, we will continue to grow our network and connectivity to Hawaii as we see improved performance and demand. As a bonus, the Los Angeles (LAX) gateway means we are now offering round trip more nonstop flights to Honolulu, Oahu and Kahului, Maui, giving our fabulous Crew Members more efficient pairings to the Islands.

How much growth is there? We’re adding 21 daily round trips, from 16 to 37 daily round trips between the mainland to Hawaii. That is more than double our current capacity! The last time we had a quasi-comparable network growth as this was when we increased our service at Denver International Airport (DEN) in the late 2000s. While all of the opportunities taken to improve and grow our network are notable and important, we are thrilled for the opportunity to serve more Customers and remain competitive following this incredible milestone!

Southwest now will be ranked second for daily trips and third for daily seats in and out of Hawaii as we remain in close contention with other carriers serving Hawaii. Of course, we can’t ignore the fact that with the return of the Boeing 737 MAX 8 back on March 11, and our ETOPS application process with the FAA now complete, the vision to fly ETOPS-authorized MAX 8 aircraft on Hawaii routings is finally coming to fruition! With the upcoming addition of 50 MAX 8 ETOPS aircraft to our fleet of 28 737-800 ETOPS aircraft, Southwest Airlines has officially shaken up the competitive landscape; we will hold approximately 18% of all mainland to Hawaii seats in the industry!

Southwest has never been the kind of Company to just accept the status quo and we will continue down the path Gary laid out for us in his 2021 Battle Plan: Survive, Stabilize, Repair, and Prosper. Moreover, serving our Customers is what we do; in fact, Colleen Barrett said it best when she said, “We’re in the Customer Service business. We just happen to fly airplanes.” This is so true, even when it comes to building the Network, finding ways to drive revenue, and ultimately connect our “extended Family” to what matters most to them. Expanding our Hawaii network is one more way we get to serve our Customers while also ensuring Southwest continues to be their number one airline. All that to say, I hope to see y’all onboard some of these flights this summer–Paradise is waiting! Head to Southwest.com now to book your next trip and be sure to tell your friends and family!"

Sent from my pilot friend

I don’t how many etops planes they will be using in July to hawaii but they will be using but I’m thinking this sounds like they have further growth planned for Hawaii not including ? DEN and SNA which will be on the max 7 obviously, I’m sensing we could see even more cities that could be seasonal in the winter maybe or them using the aircraft for more flying with red eyes ? I know they won’t use everyone but most likely a lot of them with some extra aircraft for problems. Do we think they are done adding Hawaii routes for the year with the huge capacity they are already adding ?
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4764
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 13, 2021 6:54 pm

SANFan wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
So from now on whenever we see a rumor around here of something special being announced (8:08 on the 8th day of the 8th month etc.), put it through the “is it a Thursday?” test. :bouncy:

LOL! Aloha R! You gonna be a whole lot busier from now on looks like! (But an easier time getting back to SAN for visits?)

keep 'em flyin'

bb


Still not sure yet where they’re going to put them and who’s going to work them. Lots to be figured out in the next few weeks. :scared: But yes more ways to get back to SAN are always nice, especially for wife to see her family.

joeljack wrote:
I just looked from Omaha, terrible times eastbound. You don't get back til midnight and have to be up at like 4am for your departing flight! Been to hawaii a ton, Eastbound to the midwest should leave Hawaii as late as possible is the best way to do it. 9pm-10pm flight, arrive mainland in morning....get on next flight back to midwest around noon or so. Then you don't waste an entire day traveling. If southwest wants to be competitive, they need to fix their flight times in my opinion.


Yes lack of redeyes is a problem but as discussed upthread hopefully we see them eventually.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
nine4nine
Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 13, 2021 7:01 pm

jplatts wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
LAX is so over saturated with Hawaii flights between 7 carriers 4 of whom also have wide body capacity. I thought for sure WN would have gone along the lines of their LGB strategy and added ONT and BUR for a triangle service before ever adding LAX.


One issue that is there at BUR and SNA have is that both of these airports have shorter runways. BUR is limited to 14 gates, SNA has slot restrictions, and there is a limit to the number of annual passengers at SNA.

WN would also have more connecting feed at LAX than it would at BUR, SNA, or ONT due to the bigger WN presence at LAX and WN having nonstop service out of LAX to some destinations that it doesn't serve nonstop from BUR, SNA, or ONT.


AQ made it work from both SNA and BUR as did CO/UA which just relaunched a few days ago. With SNA having a 1000’ shorter rwy than BUR that is a challenge for the 738 and even the MAX8 and would probably only happen with the MAX7, but in another thread a WN captain said the MAX8 would have no issue from BUR. I just figured WN would be consistent with their LGB plan and surround LAX with unserved/underserved Hawaii markets before adding LAX and going against 6 other carriers. Also isn’t most WN Hawaii flying more O&D rather than connecting pax?
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
ScottB
Posts: 7417
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 13, 2021 7:27 pm

joeljack wrote:
I just looked from Omaha, terrible times eastbound. You don't get back til midnight and have to be up at like 4am for your departing flight! Been to hawaii a ton, Eastbound to the midwest should leave Hawaii as late as possible is the best way to do it. 9pm-10pm flight, arrive mainland in morning....get on next flight back to midwest around noon or so. Then you don't waste an entire day traveling. If southwest wants to be competitive, they need to fix their flight times in my opinion.


Not everyone likes taking a red-eye. And if you get back to Omaha at noon the day is mostly shot for anyone working a 9-to-5 job anyway. If your body is on Hawaii time and you get back to the Midwest at midnight, it really only feels like 7 or 8 pm depending on time of year. I do agree that red eyes would be a good option for many customers, but certainly not for all.

nine4nine wrote:
LAX is so over saturated with Hawaii flights between 7 carriers 4 of whom also have wide body capacity. I thought for sure WN would have gone along the lines of their LGB strategy and added ONT and BUR for a triangle service before ever adding LAX.


WN is the #4 carrier at LAX and can probably connect passengers from ~20 non-stop markets there. While short-haul business traffic is down, they might as well use their gates at LAX to take people where they want to go on vacation.
 
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TVNWZ
Posts: 2317
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 13, 2021 9:11 pm

They were getting a premium for the daytime flights. You can sleep in your bed that night, or be over the Pacific. I’m guessing more and more people want to be in their beds.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 616
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 13, 2021 9:14 pm

I am definitely one of the people willing to pay a premium to take a daytime flight back to the mainland - done it many times. Get home, drive 60-90 minutes back to my house, it’s around midnight, but my body thinks it’s 8-9pm. Get a great night sleep - back at work the next day

Forget it when you try and adjust to the times with red eyes. And going to Hawaii is always rough, regardless of what time of day
 
AAflyguy
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:59 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 13, 2021 10:37 pm

joeljack wrote:
I just looked from Omaha, terrible times eastbound. You don't get back til midnight and have to be up at like 4am for your departing flight! Been to hawaii a ton, Eastbound to the midwest should leave Hawaii as late as possible is the best way to do it. 9pm-10pm flight, arrive mainland in morning....get on next flight back to midwest around noon or so. Then you don't waste an entire day traveling. If southwest wants to be competitive, they need to fix their flight times in my opinion.


Until Southwest initiates redeye flights, which doesn't appear to be imminent, what you're seeing is about as good as it's going to get for certain Midwest / East Coast markets from Hawaii.

AAflyguy
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4316
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 12:27 am

I’m just happy I can get back same day now. That’s a win for me.
 
Chemist
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 2:59 am

Hawaii is already expensive and I wonder what all the increased capacity to the islands does to hotels and rental cars?
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6566
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 5:42 am

Wneast wrote:
I’m seeing lots of talk in the Alaska thread about what if WN starts Hawaii flights to BLI when they finally add flights there I think I remember Someone said that could be a possibility along with the other small cities at some point ?


I made one speculation comment about it. I’d hardly call it “lots of talk”. People like to blur the distinction between their own wish list and credible rumors. Like the supposed rumors about AS starting FAT, GEG, and BOI to Hawaii. Those are simply someone’s own A.net wishes.
 
pmanni1
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 11:19 am

Here are the current top 10 WN cities by destinations served. The city fact sheets are not current so I used the route map. Includes seasonal routes and suspended routes.
DEN - 85
MDW - 78
HOU - 71
BWI - 69
DAL - 69
LAS - 66
PHX - 63
STL - 59
BNA - 55
MCO - 52

Interesting to note that no California stations made the list and only MCO from the Florida stations.
 
whatusaid
Posts: 692
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:11 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 12:34 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I’m seeing lots of talk in the Alaska thread about what if WN starts Hawaii flights to BLI when they finally add flights there I think I remember Someone said that could be a possibility along with the other small cities at some point ?


I made one speculation comment about it. I’d hardly call it “lots of talk”. People like to blur the distinction between their own wish list and credible rumors. Like the supposed rumors about AS starting FAT, GEG, and BOI to Hawaii. Those are simply someone’s own A.net wishes.


As to FAT - Hawaii, let's just say that the Airport has been and is in discussions with multiple carriers about service to HNL and OGG. Fresno airport staff specifically told the media of WN's understanding of the market, and made a the comment to one reporter of "if not for COVID". Let's not say that this talk is someone's wishes. There's some substance to the discussions that are taking place, at least in Fresno. However, as we come out of COVID, I'd suspect that once again a factor will become aircraft availability for anything that's less than daily, which would seem likely in any of the smaller cities.
 
OKCDCA
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:50 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 3:48 am

whatusaid wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I’m seeing lots of talk in the Alaska thread about what if WN starts Hawaii flights to BLI when they finally add flights there I think I remember Someone said that could be a possibility along with the other small cities at some point ?


I made one speculation comment about it. I’d hardly call it “lots of talk”. People like to blur the distinction between their own wish list and credible rumors. Like the supposed rumors about AS starting FAT, GEG, and BOI to Hawaii. Those are simply someone’s own A.net wishes.


As to FAT - Hawaii, let's just say that the Airport has been and is in discussions with multiple carriers about service to HNL and OGG. Fresno airport staff specifically told the media of WN's understanding of the market, and made a the comment to one reporter of "if not for COVID". Let's not say that this talk is someone's wishes. There's some substance to the discussions that are taking place, at least in Fresno. However, as we come out of COVID, I'd suspect that once again a factor will become aircraft availability for anything that's less than daily, which would seem likely in any of the smaller cities.

An airport is “always in discussions” with airlines about new service to new markets. If someone from the airport says they aren’t in discussions with an airline then they aren’t doing their job. In COS our airport has been “in discussions” with AA about a CLT flight, DL about restarting ATL and UA about restarting SFO or IAD. I wouldn’t get your hopes up about WN starting service between the islands and FAT anytime soon unless WN were to mention it…
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 3:56 am

OKCDCA wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I made one speculation comment about it. I’d hardly call it “lots of talk”. People like to blur the distinction between their own wish list and credible rumors. Like the supposed rumors about AS starting FAT, GEG, and BOI to Hawaii. Those are simply someone’s own A.net wishes.


As to FAT - Hawaii, let's just say that the Airport has been and is in discussions with multiple carriers about service to HNL and OGG. Fresno airport staff specifically told the media of WN's understanding of the market, and made a the comment to one reporter of "if not for COVID". Let's not say that this talk is someone's wishes. There's some substance to the discussions that are taking place, at least in Fresno. However, as we come out of COVID, I'd suspect that once again a factor will become aircraft availability for anything that's less than daily, which would seem likely in any of the smaller cities.

An airport is “always in discussions” with airlines about new service to new markets. If someone from the airport says they aren’t in discussions with an airline then they aren’t doing their job. In COS our airport has been “in discussions” with AA about a CLT flight, DL about restarting ATL and UA about restarting SFO or IAD. I wouldn’t get your hopes up about WN starting service between the islands and FAT anytime soon unless WN were to mention it…

I could be wrong and nobody knows for sure but anyone else think we might not see any more Hawaii expansion tell next year ? Let this expansion mature and see what to do next ?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2446
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 5:00 am

Sounds like SAN will see the first MAX8 Etops rotate into its daily schedule this week replacing the NG8 Etops.
WN should have all the grounded Wiring birds into the fleet by mid June.
Which according to sources Both LAS and PHX will see the newly announced September service moved up to mid July.
In addition most of the remaining NG8 Etops flights will swap to MAX8 by July.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

PS Haven't seen enilria post in quite some time hop all is well.
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 5:20 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Sounds like SAN will see the first MAX8 Etops rotate into its daily schedule this week replacing the NG8 Etops.
WN should have all the grounded Wiring birds into the fleet by mid June.
Which according to sources Both LAS and PHX will see the newly announced September service moved up to mid July.
In addition most of the remaining NG8 Etops flights will swap to MAX8 by July.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

PS Haven't seen enilria post in quite some time hop all is well.
should be interesting if we see anything else or frequency’s adjusted anything you see happening before next summer with there Hawaii operation ? The move up of the September flights if that is happening so be a good thing for WN
 
ScottB
Posts: 7417
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 3:58 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Interesting to note that no California stations made the list and only MCO from the Florida stations.


It's not that odd in light of gate/slot constraints at most California airports; also, airports in the corners of the country don't tend to work well as connecting hubs. Further, WN's historic strength has been in markets under ~1000 miles; there are relatively few markets within 1000 miles of California when compared with DEN, MDW, BWI, HOU, or DAL.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 5:40 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I made one speculation comment about it. I’d hardly call it “lots of talk”. People like to blur the distinction between their own wish list and credible rumors. Like the supposed rumors about AS starting FAT, GEG, and BOI to Hawaii. Those are simply someone’s own A.net wishes.


As to FAT - Hawaii, let's just say that the Airport has been and is in discussions with multiple carriers about service to HNL and OGG. Fresno airport staff specifically told the media of WN's understanding of the market, and made a the comment to one reporter of "if not for COVID". Let's not say that this talk is someone's wishes. There's some substance to the discussions that are taking place, at least in Fresno. However, as we come out of COVID, I'd suspect that once again a factor will become aircraft availability for anything that's less than daily, which would seem likely in any of the smaller cities.

An airport is “always in discussions” with airlines about new service to new markets. If someone from the airport says they aren’t in discussions with an airline then they aren’t doing their job. In COS our airport has been “in discussions” with AA about a CLT flight, DL about restarting ATL and UA about restarting SFO or IAD. I wouldn’t get your hopes up about WN starting service between the islands and FAT anytime soon unless WN were to mention it…


Without revealing too much about him, I will just say that WhatUSaid has some experience with airlines (it is not ground, customer service, or flight crew experience) and does know how the discussions and recruiting work. I've know him for about 3 decades and know about his direct knowledge/experiences/sources.

He likely did not reveal all he has been told in that post.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 5:41 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Here are the current top 10 WN cities by destinations served. The city fact sheets are not current so I used the route map. Includes seasonal routes and suspended routes.
DEN - 85
MDW - 78
HOU - 71
BWI - 69
DAL - 69
LAS - 66
PHX - 63
STL - 59
BNA - 55
MCO - 52

Interesting to note that no California stations made the list and only MCO from the Florida stations.


Basically that shows WN's intentional connecting opportunity airports.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 5:50 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Here are the current top 10 WN cities by destinations served. The city fact sheets are not current so I used the route map. Includes seasonal routes and suspended routes.
DEN - 85
MDW - 78
HOU - 71
BWI - 69
DAL - 69
LAS - 66
PHX - 63
STL - 59
BNA - 55
MCO - 52

Interesting to note that no California stations made the list and only MCO from the Florida stations.


Basically that shows WN's intentional connecting opportunity airports.

= hubs. (We can say it now...)

bb
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 7:45 pm

SANFan wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Here are the current top 10 WN cities by destinations served. The city fact sheets are not current so I used the route map. Includes seasonal routes and suspended routes.
DEN - 85
MDW - 78
HOU - 71
BWI - 69
DAL - 69
LAS - 66
PHX - 63
STL - 59
BNA - 55
MCO - 52

Interesting to note that no California stations made the list and only MCO from the Florida stations.


Basically that shows WN's intentional connecting opportunity airports.

= hubs. (We can say it now...)

bb


Corporate speak is ingrained in my vocabulary.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 9:02 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
In COS our airport has been “in discussions” with AA about a CLT flight, DL about restarting ATL and UA about restarting SFO or IAD.


COS lost ATL?!?! That's crazy! Seems like it could be at least an E175 route...
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 9:04 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
OKCDCA wrote:
whatusaid wrote:

As to FAT - Hawaii, let's just say that the Airport has been and is in discussions with multiple carriers about service to HNL and OGG. Fresno airport staff specifically told the media of WN's understanding of the market, and made a the comment to one reporter of "if not for COVID". Let's not say that this talk is someone's wishes. There's some substance to the discussions that are taking place, at least in Fresno. However, as we come out of COVID, I'd suspect that once again a factor will become aircraft availability for anything that's less than daily, which would seem likely in any of the smaller cities.

An airport is “always in discussions” with airlines about new service to new markets. If someone from the airport says they aren’t in discussions with an airline then they aren’t doing their job. In COS our airport has been “in discussions” with AA about a CLT flight, DL about restarting ATL and UA about restarting SFO or IAD. I wouldn’t get your hopes up about WN starting service between the islands and FAT anytime soon unless WN were to mention it…


Without revealing too much about him, I will just say that WhatUSaid has some experience with airlines (it is not ground, customer service, or flight crew experience) and does know how the discussions and recruiting work. I've know him for about 3 decades and know about his direct knowledge/experiences/sources.

He likely did not reveal all he has been told in that post.


Both of these posters have had many "predictions" that came true. Of course not every set of "discussions" bears fruit, but many of the ones they have mentioned have.
 
Kden95
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:55 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 9:39 pm

flyfresno wrote:
OKCDCA wrote:
In COS our airport has been “in discussions” with AA about a CLT flight, DL about restarting ATL and UA about restarting SFO or IAD.


COS lost ATL?!?! That's crazy! Seems like it could be at least an E175 route...


Last we’ve heard at my work for the Atlanta flight is next summer.
 
whatusaid
Posts: 692
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:11 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 1:15 am

OKCDCA wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I made one speculation comment about it. I’d hardly call it “lots of talk”. People like to blur the distinction between their own wish list and credible rumors. Like the supposed rumors about AS starting FAT, GEG, and BOI to Hawaii. Those are simply someone’s own A.net wishes.


As to FAT - Hawaii, let's just say that the Airport has been and is in discussions with multiple carriers about service to HNL and OGG. Fresno airport staff specifically told the media of WN's understanding of the market, and made a the comment to one reporter of "if not for COVID". Let's not say that this talk is someone's wishes. There's some substance to the discussions that are taking place, at least in Fresno. However, as we come out of COVID, I'd suspect that once again a factor will become aircraft availability for anything that's less than daily, which would seem likely in any of the smaller cities.

An airport is “always in discussions” with airlines about new service to new markets. If someone from the airport says they aren’t in discussions with an airline then they aren’t doing their job. In COS our airport has been “in discussions” with AA about a CLT flight, DL about restarting ATL and UA about restarting SFO or IAD. I wouldn’t get your hopes up about WN starting service between the islands and FAT anytime soon unless WN were to mention it…


It’s not my hope that WN will start Hawaii. The point is that the airport is targeting a few key markets and the numbers suggest that less than daily would generate sufficient positive margins. That said, the number of pieces of what’s a very complicated puzzle won’t come together overnight. Pent up demand has everyone, including WN, struggling in their decision making. Do we reinstate what once was or do you track a new path? Time will tell.
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 1:01 pm

BWI’s newest concourse opens with spacious restrooms, five additional gates, extra charging outlets

https://www.baltimoresun.com/politics/b ... story.html
 
User avatar
LotsaRunway
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 1:30 pm

A completely different question: How long has WN been varying the price of Business Select in the same market for nonstops? For example, I was pricing flights on BOS-BWI and I see Business Select available on some flights for around $100 and it's over $350 for others, all nonstop. It used to be a steady $240 or so for all nonstops, regardless of time of day. Was this perhaps quietly implemented along with the slight devaluation of FF points a month or so ago?
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 1:42 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
A completely different question: How long has WN been varying the price of Business Select in the same market for nonstops? For example, I was pricing flights on BOS-BWI and I see Business Select available on some flights for around $100 and it's over $350 for others, all nonstop. It used to be a steady $240 or so for all nonstops, regardless of time of day. Was this perhaps quietly implemented along with the slight devaluation of FF points a month or so ago?


Today, there are four nonstops from BOS to BWI. In October, there will be nine. Was that norm pre-COVID?
 
OAHU747
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:37 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 12:01 am

My sources say that tomorrow, 5/20, HNL will get 2 MAX flights and OGG will get 1.
My posts and opinions are mine only and are not from or representative of Southwest Airlines.
 
User avatar
BA744PHX
Posts: 545
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:42 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 12:13 am

OAHU747 wrote:
My sources say that tomorrow, 5/20, HNL will get 2 MAX flights and OGG will get 1.

Is there something I'm missing? Why is this important?
 
orlandocfi
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:53 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 12:17 am

BA744PHX wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:
My sources say that tomorrow, 5/20, HNL will get 2 MAX flights and OGG will get 1.

Is there something I'm missing? Why is this important?


They are the first MAX ETOPS flights with passengers.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2314
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 12:22 am

How is Southwest routing aircraft for the inter island? Will they have Max's doing these 20 minute flights? Would it be advantageous to ferry some -700's down there to put cycles on older less efficient (and lighter) aircraft?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2446
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 3:38 am

Varsity1 wrote:
How is Southwest routing aircraft for the inter island? Will they have Max's doing these 20 minute flights? Would it be advantageous to ferry some -700's down there to put cycles on older less efficient (and lighter) aircraft?

WN has done its homework on short haul flights for the past 50 years. Inter island flights aren't much different than a Texas two step.
The Hawaii aircraft sit for a minimum of 45/55 mins between inter island flights. Having one fleet type gives them the opportunity to quickly Rob Peter to pay Paul should a MX situation arise without much disruption to the Hawaii flying schedules.
The efficiency between the aircraft types isn't much of a difference. The break even cost is actually lower on the 800/MAX8. The total operating cost are almost the same between the aircraft types.
Really the only additional cost is a 4th flight attendant. Mike Van der van has already said a few times the MAX7 Etops will be the perfect aircraft for the mixed flying for the Hawaii operations.
Pre Covid WN had already surpassed break even revenue from its entire Hawaii operations.
They already said it was the quickest return on investment in WN history. So the 800/MAX8 weight vs a 700s weight flying isn't really a huge problem for them.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
737MAX7
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 3:50 am

OAHU747 wrote:
My sources say that tomorrow, 5/20, HNL will get 2 MAX flights and OGG will get 1.

As of now 1x SMF-HNL and SMF-OGG showing on the MAX 8.
 
OAHU747
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:37 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 3:58 am

737MAX7 wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:
My sources say that tomorrow, 5/20, HNL will get 2 MAX flights and OGG will get 1.

As of now 1x SMF-HNL and SMF-OGG showing on the MAX 8.


Yeah, looks like the LGB MAX will be an 800. But on Friday KOA is expected to have interisland MAX flying.... Of course, as of now. Things are sure to change.
My posts and opinions are mine only and are not from or representative of Southwest Airlines.
 
737MAX7
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 4:11 am

OAHU747 wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:
My sources say that tomorrow, 5/20, HNL will get 2 MAX flights and OGG will get 1.

As of now 1x SMF-HNL and SMF-OGG showing on the MAX 8.


Yeah, looks like the LGB MAX will be an 800. But on Friday KOA is expected to have interisland MAX flying.... Of course, as of now. Things are sure to change.

What’s weird is I’ve noticed several 87xx MAX’s that have come to visit me in BNA have their ETOPS markings uncovered but various other 87xx birds haven’t. I’m not super up to speed with everything ETOPS but it looks like for now not ALL of the 87xx birds will be flying to Hawaii. If anyone more familiar with the ETOPS process would like to chime in I’m always up for learning something!
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2446
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 12:45 pm

737MAX7 wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
As of now 1x SMF-HNL and SMF-OGG showing on the MAX 8.


Yeah, looks like the LGB MAX will be an 800. But on Friday KOA is expected to have interisland MAX flying.... Of course, as of now. Things are sure to change.

What’s weird is I’ve noticed several 87xx MAX’s that have come to visit me in BNA have their ETOPS markings uncovered but various other 87xx birds haven’t. I’m not super up to speed with everything ETOPS but it looks like for now not ALL of the 87xx birds will be flying to Hawaii. If anyone more familiar with the ETOPS process would like to chime in I’m always up for learning something!


WN will have all the ETOPS MAX8 reactivated by June 6th. All the wire related grounded aircraft will also be completed by mid June. From my WN MX friend he said all Hawaii flights should transfer to MAX8s by July.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
737MAX7
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 3:01 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:

Yeah, looks like the LGB MAX will be an 800. But on Friday KOA is expected to have interisland MAX flying.... Of course, as of now. Things are sure to change.

What’s weird is I’ve noticed several 87xx MAX’s that have come to visit me in BNA have their ETOPS markings uncovered but various other 87xx birds haven’t. I’m not super up to speed with everything ETOPS but it looks like for now not ALL of the 87xx birds will be flying to Hawaii. If anyone more familiar with the ETOPS process would like to chime in I’m always up for learning something!


WN will have all the ETOPS MAX8 reactivated by June 6th. All the wire related grounded aircraft will also be completed by mid June. From my WN MX friend he said all Hawaii flights should transfer to MAX8s by July.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

Awesome appreciate the info! I believe Boeing is coming in today or tomorrow to begin fixing the grounded MAX we’ve had for the last two months.
 
avi8
Posts: 1336
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 3:13 pm

Where does WN have maintenance hangars? I wonder how many return to service per week? I love seeing all the MAXes on flightradar.
avi8
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2446
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 3:31 pm

avi8 wrote:
Where does WN have maintenance hangars? I wonder how many return to service per week? I love seeing all the MAXes on flightradar.

PHX(Etops MX),HOU,MDW,ATL and DAL
BWI & DEN currently under construction.
MCO they rent out space when needed I believe.

Flyguy
Last edited by wnflyguy on Thu May 20, 2021 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Dtwramp
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:58 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 3:56 pm

ATL and MCO also
 
737max8
Posts: 725
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 4:05 pm

737MAX7 wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
As of now 1x SMF-HNL and SMF-OGG showing on the MAX 8.


Yeah, looks like the LGB MAX will be an 800. But on Friday KOA is expected to have interisland MAX flying.... Of course, as of now. Things are sure to change.

What’s weird is I’ve noticed several 87xx MAX’s that have come to visit me in BNA have their ETOPS markings uncovered but various other 87xx birds haven’t. I’m not super up to speed with everything ETOPS but it looks like for now not ALL of the 87xx birds will be flying to Hawaii. If anyone more familiar with the ETOPS process would like to chime in I’m always up for learning something!


There is a process to transfer each tail over to ETOPS, you can't do them all at once. Think it requires a MX visit to do. Some might even need equipment installed still. "Slowly" every 87XX tail should be made ETOPS. Not sure on the speed so that's why I quoted slowly. It may end up being pretty darn quick. Just not instant.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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wnflyguy
Posts: 2446
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 4:54 pm

737max8 wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:

Yeah, looks like the LGB MAX will be an 800. But on Friday KOA is expected to have interisland MAX flying.... Of course, as of now. Things are sure to change.

What’s weird is I’ve noticed several 87xx MAX’s that have come to visit me in BNA have their ETOPS markings uncovered but various other 87xx birds haven’t. I’m not super up to speed with everything ETOPS but it looks like for now not ALL of the 87xx birds will be flying to Hawaii. If anyone more familiar with the ETOPS process would like to chime in I’m always up for learning something!


There is a process to transfer each tail over to ETOPS, you can't do them all at once. Think it requires a MX visit to do. Some might even need equipment installed still. "Slowly" every 87XX tail should be made ETOPS. Not sure on the speed so that's why I quoted slowly. It may end up being pretty darn quick. Just not instant.


The MX reinstall for the Flight attendants safe equipment" life rafts, extra oxygen bottles and additional life vest. They took all this off temporary to save weight until they were ready to achieve MAX8 Etops certification but then the Grounding happened and then the pandemic. The aircraft cockpit functions and hardware remain the same. Cosmetically they must reapply that ETOPS on the side of the aircraft and front nose wheel doors.

Is a 3 days per aircraft and from what I heard it's 5 at a time.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
User avatar
barney captain
Posts: 2439
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 6:29 pm

Last edited by barney captain on Thu May 20, 2021 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2314
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 6:30 pm

Is southwest marketing cargo to Hawaii? Are they flying it? I know the 737 can't carry much that distance but it still must be something.
 
User avatar
barney captain
Posts: 2439
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 6:35 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Is southwest marketing cargo to Hawaii? Are they flying it? I know the 737 can't carry much that distance but it still must be something.


Definitely.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
737MAX7
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 21, 2021 2:16 am

737max8 wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
OAHU747 wrote:

Yeah, looks like the LGB MAX will be an 800. But on Friday KOA is expected to have interisland MAX flying.... Of course, as of now. Things are sure to change.

What’s weird is I’ve noticed several 87xx MAX’s that have come to visit me in BNA have their ETOPS markings uncovered but various other 87xx birds haven’t. I’m not super up to speed with everything ETOPS but it looks like for now not ALL of the 87xx birds will be flying to Hawaii. If anyone more familiar with the ETOPS process would like to chime in I’m always up for learning something!


There is a process to transfer each tail over to ETOPS, you can't do them all at once. Think it requires a MX visit to do. Some might even need equipment installed still. "Slowly" every 87XX tail should be made ETOPS. Not sure on the speed so that's why I quoted slowly. It may end up being pretty darn quick. Just not instant.

Appreciate the info, I enjoy learning the ins and outs of this industry even after having been in it for 8.5 years.
 
airzona11
Posts: 1880
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 21, 2021 2:47 am

What is Southwests plan for expanding the beverage service back to normal?
 
SWADawg
Posts: 710
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 21, 2021 2:55 am

airzona11 wrote:
What is Southwests plan for expanding the beverage service back to normal?

Plan? What plan? Nothing changing anytime soon from what I’ve heard unfortunately. Maybe someone else has better information though.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines

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