Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
PITFlyer330
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri May 14, 2021 4:56 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:30 pm

Wneast wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
There's bound to many surprises considering they're hosting the celebration in Houston, rather than in their hometown of Dallas.

So some of the announcements might relate to Houston? Or we could see other stuff ? they only one I could think we be a expansion of INT out of Houston


Maybe SAP or GUA
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 963
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:45 pm

I've noticed that the only aircraft in the WN fleet that get special liveries are the 737-700s. Why no love for the -800 or MAX 8?
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4770
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:08 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Looks like WN has moved the vast majority of its operations to the E Gates in HNL. I’m not showing any flights today using the ground level Gates G7-G10, although it appears they are still using Gate G6 and F1/2 for overflow operations.


Yesterday I worked what I’m thinking might’ve been the last scheduled flight at the hardstands without even knowing it.
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 309
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:32 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:49 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Looks like WN has moved the vast majority of its operations to the E Gates in HNL. I’m not showing any flights today using the ground level Gates G7-G10, although it appears they are still using Gate G6 and F1/2 for overflow operations.


Yesterday I worked what I’m thinking might’ve been the last scheduled flight at the hardstands without even knowing it.


Someone upthread said the G Gates are going to be closed and demolished to build a brand new concourse once the new Mauka Concourse opens later this year for HA? Is this correct? I wonder where UA will be moving to considering they have their own club lounge in G.
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2133
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:58 am

Looks like N500WR (737-800) has been in the paint shop in GEG for a while. It arrived into GEG on May 29th according to Flight Radar24...
 
Wneast
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:15 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Looks like WN has moved the vast majority of its operations to the E Gates in HNL. I’m not showing any flights today using the ground level Gates G7-G10, although it appears they are still using Gate G6 and F1/2 for overflow operations.


Yesterday I worked what I’m thinking might’ve been the last scheduled flight at the hardstands without even knowing it.


Someone upthread said the G Gates are going to be closed and demolished to build a brand new concourse once the new Mauka Concourse opens later this year for HA? Is this correct? I wonder where UA will be moving to considering they have their own club lounge in G.

As i said I can now say for sure WN is moving all the flights from the hardstands. Does anyone know if they have room for further growth with leaving the hardstands pass what they are adding I imagine they would have more room or a plan if they decide to even further the amount of flights they offer
 
Wneast
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:25 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Looks like WN has moved the vast majority of its operations to the E Gates in HNL. I’m not showing any flights today using the ground level Gates G7-G10, although it appears they are still using Gate G6 and F1/2 for overflow operations.


Yesterday I worked what I’m thinking might’ve been the last scheduled flight at the hardstands without even knowing it.


Someone upthread said the G Gates are going to be closed and demolished to build a brand new concourse once the new Mauka Concourse opens later this year for HA? Is this correct? I wonder where UA will be moving to considering they have their own club lounge in G.
if you look up the HNL modernization it shows what the future HNL will look like
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2507
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:36 am

The Hardstand gates we're always going to be temporary until the HA moved into it's new Home.
Yes the Diamond head concourse is next to get a complete refurbishment. Starting in 2022.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
 
Wneast
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:41 am

wnflyguy wrote:
The Hardstand gates we're always going to be temporary until the HA moved into it's new Home.
Yes the Diamond head concourse is next to get a complete refurbishment. Starting in 2022.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

Do you know how many gates they will be taking over from Hawaiian when they move over to there new home ?
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 309
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:32 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:24 am

Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
The Hardstand gates we're always going to be temporary until the HA moved into it's new Home.
Yes the Diamond head concourse is next to get a complete refurbishment. Starting in 2022.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

Do you know how many gates they will be taking over from Hawaiian when they move over to there new home ?


I’d assume HA will move all their mainland flights out of C and D into the new concourse so there will be more room on C open which. Apparently WNs move into E has already shuffled some things around as AA has moved the majority of their flights into Gates C1 and C3 with overflow remaining in E. Perhaps AA will consolidate in C once HA moves mainland ops out allowing more room in E for WN.
Last edited by KMCOFlyer on Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Wneast
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:29 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
The Hardstand gates we're always going to be temporary until the HA moved into it's new Home.
Yes the Diamond head concourse is next to get a complete refurbishment. Starting in 2022.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

Do you know how many gates they will be taking over from Hawaiian when they move over to there new home ?


I’d assume HA will move all their mainland flights out of C and D into the new concourse so there will be room on C open. If the Diamond Head concourse is indeed closing for renovations then I could see UA moving ops into C/Ewa Concourse until the renovations are finished.

Wn should get however many gates they want and yes everyone I know there common use but WN could get priority to a lot of gates to expand there operation, so it sounds like E might become the WN concourse as you could call it. How many jetways are there at concourse E ?
Last edited by Wneast on Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 309
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:32 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:32 am

Wneast wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Do you know how many gates they will be taking over from Hawaiian when they move over to there new home ?


I’d assume HA will move all their mainland flights out of C and D into the new concourse so there will be room on C open. If the Diamond Head concourse is indeed closing for renovations then I could see UA moving ops into C/Ewa Concourse until the renovations are finished.

Wn should get however many gates they want and yes everyone I know there common use but WN could get priority to a lot of gates to expand there operation


I just noticed that AA has moved several flights into C as they are using C1 and C3 for several of their flights with E acting as an overflow. Once HA moves out, I’d assume WN will get priority in E and AA will be forced to consolidate on C allowing WN to expand in E. I have no idea what will happen with UA if the Diamond Head concourse closes.
 
Wneast
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:35 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:

I’d assume HA will move all their mainland flights out of C and D into the new concourse so there will be room on C open. If the Diamond Head concourse is indeed closing for renovations then I could see UA moving ops into C/Ewa Concourse until the renovations are finished.

Wn should get however many gates they want and yes everyone I know there common use but WN could get priority to a lot of gates to expand there operation


I just noticed that AA has moved several flights into C as they are using C1 and C3 for several of their flights with E acting as an overflow. Once HA moves out, I’d assume WN will get priority in E and AA will be forced to consolidate on C allowing WN to expand in E. I have no idea what will happen with UA if the Diamond Head concourse closes.

How many gates are in the E concourse that WN could potentially take control of ?
 
Wneast
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:51 am

Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
The Hardstand gates we're always going to be temporary until the HA moved into it's new Home.
Yes the Diamond head concourse is next to get a complete refurbishment. Starting in 2022.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

Do you know how many gates they will be taking over from Hawaiian when they move over to there new home ?

They should be able to probably double there hawaii offerings from what they already added in this expansion ?
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4770
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:10 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:

I’d assume HA will move all their mainland flights out of C and D into the new concourse so there will be room on C open. If the Diamond Head concourse is indeed closing for renovations then I could see UA moving ops into C/Ewa Concourse until the renovations are finished.

Wn should get however many gates they want and yes everyone I know there common use but WN could get priority to a lot of gates to expand there operation


I just noticed that AA has moved several flights into C as they are using C1 and C3 for several of their flights with E acting as an overflow. Once HA moves out, I’d assume WN will get priority in E and AA will be forced to consolidate on C allowing WN to expand in E. I have no idea what will happen with UA if the Diamond Head concourse closes.


I’m pretty sure the Diamond Head concourse is being extended, not demolished so UA ops shouldn’t be impacted too much.
 
Wneast
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:12 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Wn should get however many gates they want and yes everyone I know there common use but WN could get priority to a lot of gates to expand there operation


I just noticed that AA has moved several flights into C as they are using C1 and C3 for several of their flights with E acting as an overflow. Once HA moves out, I’d assume WN will get priority in E and AA will be forced to consolidate on C allowing WN to expand in E. I have no idea what will happen with UA if the Diamond Head concourse closes.


I’m pretty sure the Diamond Head concourse is being extended, not demolished so UA ops shouldn’t be impacted too much.

He rights its being extended from the last UA gate
 
ytib
Posts: 710
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:18 am

Wneast wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:

I just noticed that AA has moved several flights into C as they are using C1 and C3 for several of their flights with E acting as an overflow. Once HA moves out, I’d assume WN will get priority in E and AA will be forced to consolidate on C allowing WN to expand in E. I have no idea what will happen with UA if the Diamond Head concourse closes.


I’m pretty sure the Diamond Head concourse is being extended, not demolished so UA ops shouldn’t be impacted too much.

He rights its being extended from the last UA gate


In #1946 you said that the G gates are being demolished, now you are saying they are being extended. Can you start posting links to the information you post if you are stating this as a fact.
 
Wneast
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:21 am

ytib wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:

I’m pretty sure the Diamond Head concourse is being extended, not demolished so UA ops shouldn’t be impacted too much.

He rights its being extended from the last UA gate


In #1946 you said that the G gates are being demolished, now you are saying they are being extended. Can you start posting links to the information you post if you are stating this as a fact.

There’s a picture online that you can look up what is being done but I meant the g ground gates as in the ones WN used those are being demolished to add a the new diamond concourse then they are extended up stair from the last UA gate and to build the new concourse, its public knowledge if you search up HNL modernization plan. It’s in that link if you would like to look at it https://www.hawaiiairportsmodernization.com/
 
ScottB
Posts: 7515
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:50 am

Wneast wrote:
There’s a picture online that you can look up what is being done but I meant the g ground gates as in the ones WN used those are being demolished to add a the new diamond concourse then they are extended up stair from the last UA gate and to build the new concourse, its public knowledge if you search up HNL modernization plan. It’s in that link if you would like to look at it https://www.hawaiiairportsmodernization.com/


Here's the relevant project: https://www.hawaiiairportsmodernization ... nt-program

If you look at the plans, it's pretty clear the entire Diamond Head Concourse (G gates) will be replaced with a new structure having 17 widebody gates in two piers. In the schematic, one can see the E concourse west of the new structure, across a two-lane alleyway; the existing F gates are at the end of that alleyway. The design should allow for most of the current Diamond Head Concourse to stay operational while the eastern pier is built; once that is complete and opened, then the old Diamond Head Concourse can be demolished so the southern pier can be built on its footprint.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:35 am

wnflyguy wrote:
The Hardstand gates we're always going to be temporary until the HA moved into it's new Home.
Yes the Diamond head concourse is next to get a complete refurbishment. Starting in 2022.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

According to the airport plan via the link provided by Wneast, construction won’t even begin until 2027 with a 2033 completion.
 
ytib
Posts: 710
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:43 pm

Southwest exercises options for 34 737 Max 7 aircraft bringing total up to 234.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/08/southwe ... plane.html

Based on the SEC filing 64 737 Max 7 will be delivered in 2022 versus 30 previously scheduled.
https://otp.tools.investis.com/clients/ ... ndex=10000
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9887
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:56 pm

Wneast wrote:
Wn should get however many gates they want and yes everyone I know there common use but WN could get priority to a lot of gates to expand there operation, so it sounds like E might become the WN concourse as you could call it.


You REALLY need to review FAA requirements for non-discriminatory access by carriers, and the economics of allocation of scarce resources.

https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_compliance/
 
Western727
Posts: 2011
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:04 pm

ytib wrote:
Southwest exercises options for 34 737 Max 7 aircraft bringing total up to 234.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/08/southwe ... plane.html

Based on the SEC filing 64 737 Max 7 will be delivered in 2022 versus 30 previously scheduled.
https://otp.tools.investis.com/clients/ ... ndex=10000


Thank you, ytib, for this. I know this has been discussed in the past, but is there a chance of a MAX 9 order at all? The SEC filing says nothing about that. I figure the MAX 9 might have potential and wouldn't cost much more to operate on a CASM basis, given the (assumed, possibly incorrect) 4 flight attendant figure like that of the MAX 8.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2507
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:21 pm

Western727 wrote:
ytib wrote:
Southwest exercises options for 34 737 Max 7 aircraft bringing total up to 234.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/08/southwe ... plane.html

Based on the SEC filing 64 737 Max 7 will be delivered in 2022 versus 30 previously scheduled.
https://otp.tools.investis.com/clients/ ... ndex=10000


Thank you, ytib, for this. I know this has been discussed in the past, but is there a chance of a MAX 9 order at all? The SEC filing says nothing about that. I figure the MAX 9 might have potential and wouldn't cost much more to operate on a CASM basis, given the (assumed, possibly incorrect) 4 flight attendant figure like that of the MAX 8.


Last conference call WN said the MAX9 and MAX10 DOES NOT fit there business model. So NO they will not order anything bigger than the MAX8.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
 
ScottB
Posts: 7515
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:32 pm

ytib wrote:
Southwest exercises options for 34 737 Max 7 aircraft bringing total up to 234.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/08/southwe ... plane.html

Based on the SEC filing 64 737 Max 7 will be delivered in 2022 versus 30 previously scheduled.


WN management has stated they want to restore much of the service on the network (intra-California, for example) which was gutted due to the pandemic response while maintaining their new stations; looks like bringing in 64 new aircraft next year is part of how they get there. Going with the MAX 7 says to me they feel confident that frequency-driven business markets will come back.

Western727 wrote:
is there a chance of a MAX 9 order at all? The SEC filing says nothing about that. I figure the MAX 9 might have potential and wouldn't cost much more to operate on a CASM basis, given the (assumed, possibly incorrect) 4 flight attendant figure like that of the MAX 8.


As far as WN's orders go, it's really better to just think of them as being 737 MAX orders rather than being for a specific variant when you look more than two years out. They generally have the right to substitute with sufficient notice (and payment) to Boeing. I don't think they'd go over 199 seats (it's only 9 feet longer than the MAX 8) so still four FAs. I think it's really going to depend on how Hawaii develops along with domestic leisure travel holding up once the rest of the world opens up.
 
Brandon757
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:16 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:08 pm

WN732 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
WN732 wrote:

Personally, I wouldn't give up on that yet. Things turned around quicker this year than many anticipated.

I would say that has a good chance to happen with a bunch of stuff planned for the 50th they probably have been holding some stuff back


And let's not forget the two special liveries that need replaced.

Which two? Sorry, I don't keep up much with WN news.
 
SWADawg
Posts: 716
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:27 pm

Brandon757 wrote:
WN732 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I would say that has a good chance to happen with a bunch of stuff planned for the 50th they probably have been holding some stuff back


And let's not forget the two special liveries that need replaced.

Which two? Sorry, I don't keep up much with WN news.

Illinois One and Tennessee One.
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:15 pm

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Hawaii One and a 50th livery.
 
SWADawg
Posts: 716
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:27 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see a Hawaii One and a 50th livery.

^^^^^This. I wouldn’t either. I think you might be on to something.
 
tsra
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:04 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:37 pm

Will WN go daily in December to Mexican destinations Like CUN and CZM?
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:00 pm

SWADawg wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see a Hawaii One and a 50th livery.

^^^^^This. I wouldn’t either. I think you might be on to something.


Let's hope there's more exciting news than new liveries. I mean the party is being held in Houston so I am hoping for S. America destinations. We'll know soon enough.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4463
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:33 pm

tsra wrote:
Will WN go daily in December to Mexican destinations Like CUN and CZM?


It goes daily to CUN from multiple airports, doesn't it?
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 963
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:59 pm

Is WN planning to bring back MSY-SAN? It's not available through the end of the booking window.
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:42 pm

Why is ISP-FLL/TPA gone? Those used to be such popular routes for them. I can sorta understand FLL with the cruise industry out still, but south Florida is a big market for LI, you’d think they’d be able to get at least one daily 737 to profitable loads. I really hope they bring those back to daily in the next schedule extension.

It’s sad what they’ve done to ISP. They used to have three daily nonstops to FLL. It seems instead of challenging Frontier when they came into ISP, they’ve backed down when they could’ve easily slashed fares and increased frequencies.
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:08 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
Why is ISP-FLL/TPA gone? Those used to be such popular routes for them. I can sorta understand FLL with the cruise industry out still, but south Florida is a big market for LI, you’d think they’d be able to get at least one daily 737 to profitable loads. I really hope they bring those back to daily in the next schedule extension.

It’s sad what they’ve done to ISP. They used to have three daily nonstops to FLL. It seems instead of challenging Frontier when they came into ISP, they’ve backed down when they could’ve easily slashed fares and increased frequencies.


Because they can make better money elsewhere. Why slash fares and increase frequencies (which doesn't make money) when you can move the planes elsewhere and make money? It's a business, not a charity.
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:21 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
WNflyer1523 wrote:
Why is ISP-FLL/TPA gone? Those used to be such popular routes for them. I can sorta understand FLL with the cruise industry out still, but south Florida is a big market for LI, you’d think they’d be able to get at least one daily 737 to profitable loads. I really hope they bring those back to daily in the next schedule extension.

It’s sad what they’ve done to ISP. They used to have three daily nonstops to FLL. It seems instead of challenging Frontier when they came into ISP, they’ve backed down when they could’ve easily slashed fares and increased frequencies.


Because they can make better money elsewhere. Why slash fares and increase frequencies (which doesn't make money) when you can move the planes elsewhere and make money? It's a business, not a charity.


Just a few years ago they were making good money at ISP, even with LGA in existence right next door. I bet they could if they tried. New York area to Florida is a huge market, even after the pandemic. Hopefully after this summer trend of travel-to-outdoorsy-areas dies down they can add more ISP flights.
 
evank516
Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:13 am

WNflyer1523 wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
WNflyer1523 wrote:
Why is ISP-FLL/TPA gone? Those used to be such popular routes for them. I can sorta understand FLL with the cruise industry out still, but south Florida is a big market for LI, you’d think they’d be able to get at least one daily 737 to profitable loads. I really hope they bring those back to daily in the next schedule extension.

It’s sad what they’ve done to ISP. They used to have three daily nonstops to FLL. It seems instead of challenging Frontier when they came into ISP, they’ve backed down when they could’ve easily slashed fares and increased frequencies.


Because they can make better money elsewhere. Why slash fares and increase frequencies (which doesn't make money) when you can move the planes elsewhere and make money? It's a business, not a charity.


Just a few years ago they were making good money at ISP, even with LGA in existence right next door. I bet they could if they tried. New York area to Florida is a huge market, even after the pandemic. Hopefully after this summer trend of travel-to-outdoorsy-areas dies down they can add more ISP flights.


They just resumed ISP-BNA yesterday after quite a hiatus. I assume ISP-PBI and ISP-MCO is still going though.

Additionally they can route everyone through BWI and get them there. There are loyal WN flyers on Long Island and they probably won’t lose them.
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:26 am

evank516 wrote:
WNflyer1523 wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:

Because they can make better money elsewhere. Why slash fares and increase frequencies (which doesn't make money) when you can move the planes elsewhere and make money? It's a business, not a charity.


Just a few years ago they were making good money at ISP, even with LGA in existence right next door. I bet they could if they tried. New York area to Florida is a huge market, even after the pandemic. Hopefully after this summer trend of travel-to-outdoorsy-areas dies down they can add more ISP flights.


They just resumed ISP-BNA yesterday after quite a hiatus. I assume ISP-PBI and ISP-MCO is still going though.

Additionally they can route everyone through BWI and get them there. There are loyal WN flyers on Long Island and they probably won’t lose them.


I’m happy about ISP-BNA. The sad part though is that it gets into BNA at 8:00 PM, reducing the majority of connecting opportunities, and it may be tough to rely on O&D traffic for a flight like that. The flight out on Monday only had 70 or so pax according to LIMA’s Facebook. Hopefully those numbers increase as the flight goes on.

Your point about connecting in BWI and loyal Southwest pax on LI is correct. Some people will do anything to avoid LGA and JFK. However, there’s also a bunch of casual non-WN loyalists on the island who much prefer a nonstop flight and if those are gone they are going to non-happily make the drive or train ride to JFK or LGA.

If they are going to keep it as a late-day departure to BNA, I’d love to see MDW and/or LAS come back. ISP-MDW is Southwest 4th underserved city pair for 2020 (was #1 in 2019, I assume the slight loss was due to loss of business traffic) with around 53,000 people connecting in BWI to get there. That number would definitely increase with a nonstop flight, and more people connecting in MDW to get places. LAS would also be a great connecting spot in the winter for flights to the west coast if MDW and BWI are being hammered by storms.
 
evank516
Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:24 am

WNflyer1523 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
WNflyer1523 wrote:

Just a few years ago they were making good money at ISP, even with LGA in existence right next door. I bet they could if they tried. New York area to Florida is a huge market, even after the pandemic. Hopefully after this summer trend of travel-to-outdoorsy-areas dies down they can add more ISP flights.


They just resumed ISP-BNA yesterday after quite a hiatus. I assume ISP-PBI and ISP-MCO is still going though.

Additionally they can route everyone through BWI and get them there. There are loyal WN flyers on Long Island and they probably won’t lose them.


I’m happy about ISP-BNA. The sad part though is that it gets into BNA at 8:00 PM, reducing the majority of connecting opportunities, and it may be tough to rely on O&D traffic for a flight like that. The flight out on Monday only had 70 or so pax according to LIMA’s Facebook. Hopefully those numbers increase as the flight goes on.

Your point about connecting in BWI and loyal Southwest pax on LI is correct. Some people will do anything to avoid LGA and JFK. However, there’s also a bunch of casual non-WN loyalists on the island who much prefer a nonstop flight and if those are gone they are going to non-happily make the drive or train ride to JFK or LGA.

If they are going to keep it as a late-day departure to BNA, I’d love to see MDW and/or LAS come back. ISP-MDW is Southwest 4th underserved city pair for 2020 (was #1 in 2019, I assume the slight loss was due to loss of business traffic) with around 53,000 people connecting in BWI to get there. That number would definitely increase with a nonstop flight, and more people connecting in MDW to get places. LAS would also be a great connecting spot in the winter for flights to the west coast if MDW and BWI are being hammered by storms.


I am 100% on board with the idea of MDW resuming. I think that was a bad cut, and if WN is adapting to the idea of relying on connections it’s probably a solid move to bring that back.

Getting into BNA at 8 PM isn’t terrible honestly. It does provide for some connecting opportunities. Just by looking I can see connections to VPS, ECP, PNS, MSY, AUS, and MCI. Given AUS’s increasing popularity and MSY’s existing popularity it’s a great way to get out for a long weekend with a 6:40 PM departure option and not really have to skip work.

On LI you’re basically split 3 ways in terms of loyalty: B6, DL, and WN depending on which airport you prefer, but LI is probably the only area in greater NYC that actually has some WN loyalty because of ISP.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:43 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Pulling this from the BNA thread since it’s more WN in general. I also know this topic has been covered a million times but I had one more thought on it. Feel free to tell me I’m crazy.

AC4500 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Im sure we see it probably is a excuse because they have better priorities like Hawaii and probably next South America whenever that is

Part of the issue with WN not starting flights to Canada (and having a very limited route network outside the US in general) is that they don't publish their schedules on third party websites like Expedia and Orbitz. Unless if Southwest allocates a large amount of their marketing budget into advertising any hypothetical Canada flights, a Canadian customer is not going to have any incentive to fly WN as opposed to Air Canada, WestJet, or the Canadian ULCCs.

Jshank83, I also seem to remember reading somewhere that WN has trouble processing non-USD currencies. That's obviously part of the issue as well.

If WN were to start operations in Canada, the only route that I could see being feasible from BNA would be 1 or 2 daily flights to YYZ. Other than that, I think Canada flights would be limited to just BWI and MDW.


I feel like if there was anywhere they could get away with no 3rd party sites it is Canada. I would guess many of them know southwest. Some probably even cross the border and fly them or fly them once they get in the US. I know some that self connect on WN once they get into the US. It might take a bit but I feel like they would get used to looking up flights separate just like we in the US have to already (especially if the price is right).

People cross the border for flights to save money not to fly WN.

WN trained costumers to book WN with low fares before the internet. Now they no longer have low fares but costumers are willing to book WN online because of there massive network and can serve most of most of their costumers travel needs. In Canada they will have neither a massive network nor particularly low fares.
 
tsra
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:04 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:06 am

Jshank83 wrote:
tsra wrote:
Will WN go daily in December to Mexican destinations Like CUN and CZM?


It goes daily to CUN from multiple airports, doesn't it?


I thought so but wasn’t sure. I’m even less sure about CZM.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2507
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:42 pm

Well Sounds like political pressure and promises are playing out.
This morning Chatter has SYR starting in October with 3 BWI,2 MDW and 1 DEN.

BLI also in October sounds like 2 OAK, 1 LAS and 1 DEN.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2507
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:52 pm

tsra wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
tsra wrote:
Will WN go daily in December to Mexican destinations Like CUN and CZM?


It goes daily to CUN from multiple airports, doesn't it?


I thought so but wasn’t sure. I’m even less sure about CZM.


CZM is daily during the summer and just Sat/Sun in the Fall.

Flyguy
 
Wneast
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:56 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Well Sounds like political pressure and promises are playing out.
This morning Chatter has SYR starting in October with 3 BWI,2 MDW and 1 DEN.

BLI also in October sounds like 2 OAK, 1 LAS and 1 DEN.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

Is there rumored flights for the new cities or more Hawaii flying ?
 
Cboyle
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:32 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:17 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Well Sounds like political pressure and promises are playing out.
This morning Chatter has SYR starting in October with 3 BWI,2 MDW and 1 DEN.

BLI also in October sounds like 2 OAK, 1 LAS and 1 DEN.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

Any new routes from MHT soon?
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4463
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:33 pm

Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well Sounds like political pressure and promises are playing out.
This morning Chatter has SYR starting in October with 3 BWI,2 MDW and 1 DEN.

BLI also in October sounds like 2 OAK, 1 LAS and 1 DEN.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

Is there rumored flights for the new cities or more Hawaii flying ?


GK just said he doesn't see many/any more dots for a few years so I would guess the new city talk will die down for a bit. They have a lot of old network they need to get back connected.
 
Western727
Posts: 2011
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:53 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
BLI also in October sounds like 2 OAK, 1 LAS and 1 DEN.


October seems quite late. I expect the border with BC to open at least a couple of months before. Any idea why WN is waiting that long?
 
WN732
Posts: 1021
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:53 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well Sounds like political pressure and promises are playing out.
This morning Chatter has SYR starting in October with 3 BWI,2 MDW and 1 DEN.

BLI also in October sounds like 2 OAK, 1 LAS and 1 DEN.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

Is there rumored flights for the new cities or more Hawaii flying ?


GK just said he doesn't see many/any more dots for a few years so I would guess the new city talk will die down for a bit. They have a lot of old network they need to get back connected.


Judging by all of the ads I've been seeing, they are still working on shoring up business for some of their new markets. Some of them are struggling a bit, while others have blown up like a Christmas tree on fire.
 
Wneast
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:58 pm

WN732 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Is there rumored flights for the new cities or more Hawaii flying ?


GK just said he doesn't see many/any more dots for a few years so I would guess the new city talk will die down for a bit. They have a lot of old network they need to get back connected.


Judging by all of the ads I've been seeing, they are still working on shoring up business for some of their new markets. Some of them are struggling a bit, while others have blown up like a Christmas tree on fire.

I would imagine we see further adds to the new cities and more Hawaii frequency
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4463
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:42 pm

Wneast wrote:
WN732 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

GK just said he doesn't see many/any more dots for a few years so I would guess the new city talk will die down for a bit. They have a lot of old network they need to get back connected.


Judging by all of the ads I've been seeing, they are still working on shoring up business for some of their new markets. Some of them are struggling a bit, while others have blown up like a Christmas tree on fire.

I would imagine we see further adds to the new cities and more Hawaii frequency


or they just do an extension of the current schedule like last time they had an extension.

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