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AMALH747430
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:52 pm

WN appears to have spread themselves as thin as AA. According to FlightAware (link below) yesterday WN had 212 cancellations and 1,218 delays. AA had 199 cancellations and 1,004 delays. For comparison sake, DL had 5 cancellations and 534 delays, while UA had 10 cancellations and 444 delays.

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/yesterday

Teflon WN isn’t getting the heat AA is though, even after their meltdown last week. WN has awful IROPS performance and recovery as it is. It looks like they may be in the same boat as AA, they’re just not getting the amount of negative press coverage AA is.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2493
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:38 pm

So hearing that the Governor of Alaska is pressing GK By saying why is the Biggest Low cost airline in America promoting Outdoor adventure with a variety of new destinations but keeps avoiding Alaska America's final frontier?

NY successfully pressured WN to add SYR.
Maybe Alaska will finally see WN add ANC.

They could easily add 2 DEN,1 LAS with their non Red Eye type schedule.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:08 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
So hearing that the Governor of Alaska is pressing GK By saying why is the Biggest Low cost airline in America promoting Outdoor adventure with a variety of new destinations but keeps avoiding Alaska America's final frontier?

NY successfully pressured WN to add SYR.
Maybe Alaska will finally see WN add ANC.

They could easily add 2 DEN,1 LAS with their non Red Eye type schedule.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy


Because they already are stretched to thin to have more planes on long routes?
 
Chemist
Posts: 933
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:44 pm

Because it might not be smart to add Alaska at the same time they are going balls-out for Hawaii. Plus added many new stations in the continental US.
 
Wneast
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:47 pm

If WN is having a fleet shortage why would they not further all the options to get more planes next year ?
 
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Polot
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:49 pm

Wneast wrote:
If WN is having a fleet shortage why would they not further all the options to get more planes next year ?

Because even with favorable MAX pricing new planes still cost money. You have to balance fleet needs and projections with making sure you don’t bankrupt yourself.
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:38 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
WN appears to have spread themselves as thin as AA. According to FlightAware (link below) yesterday WN had 212 cancellations and 1,218 delays. AA had 199 cancellations and 1,004 delays. For comparison sake, DL had 5 cancellations and 534 delays, while UA had 10 cancellations and 444 delays.

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/yesterday

Teflon WN isn’t getting the heat AA is though, even after their meltdown last week. WN has awful IROPS performance and recovery as it is. It looks like they may be in the same boat as AA, they’re just not getting the amount of negative press coverage AA is.


I’m guessing you didn’t see the weather yesterday over several of WN mega-stations?
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 798
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:45 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
WN appears to have spread themselves as thin as AA. According to FlightAware (link below) yesterday WN had 212 cancellations and 1,218 delays. AA had 199 cancellations and 1,004 delays. For comparison sake, DL had 5 cancellations and 534 delays, while UA had 10 cancellations and 444 delays.

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/yesterday

Teflon WN isn’t getting the heat AA is though, even after their meltdown last week. WN has awful IROPS performance and recovery as it is. It looks like they may be in the same boat as AA, they’re just not getting the amount of negative press coverage AA is.


I’m guessing you didn’t see the weather yesterday over several of WN mega-stations?


A flight attendant friend there told me that those weather events yesterday were allegedly caused by a high rate of FA sick calls, or as the company tells them .. “flight attendant behavior.”
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:47 am

airplaneboy wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
WN appears to have spread themselves as thin as AA. According to FlightAware (link below) yesterday WN had 212 cancellations and 1,218 delays. AA had 199 cancellations and 1,004 delays. For comparison sake, DL had 5 cancellations and 534 delays, while UA had 10 cancellations and 444 delays.

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/yesterday

Teflon WN isn’t getting the heat AA is though, even after their meltdown last week. WN has awful IROPS performance and recovery as it is. It looks like they may be in the same boat as AA, they’re just not getting the amount of negative press coverage AA is.


I’m guessing you didn’t see the weather yesterday over several of WN mega-stations?


A flight attendant friend there told me that those weather events were allegedly caused by a high rate of FA sick calls, or as the company tells them .. “flight attendant behavior.”


No, literally. The weather. Ground stops, flow control, etc., due to weather which resulted in cancellations.
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 798
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:56 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
airplaneboy wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:

I’m guessing you didn’t see the weather yesterday over several of WN mega-stations?


A flight attendant friend there told me that those weather events were allegedly caused by a high rate of FA sick calls, or as the company tells them .. “flight attendant behavior.”


No, literally. The weather. Ground stops, flow control, etc., due to weather which resulted in cancellations.


I forgot to include an emoji to illustrate sarcasm lol. Last week’s operational crisis was blamed on the flight attendant workgroup sick call rate. Hence the previous reference.
 
LUVisLOST
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:24 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:28 am

This has been a challenging year for the airlines, Southwest included. They have some DEEP soul searching to do with employees being worked to the MAX and being ”plane” exhausted. I’ve heard accounts of agents walking off the job and other departments calling out sick from being overworked and burned out (shifts constantly being extended via mandatory overtime, some on a daily basis). Southwest added a bunch of flights to the schedule for the summer without adequate staffing across ALL front line departments. Pilots and flight attendants are fatigued from trips constantly changing to longer work days with short layovers and less sleep (and having poor access to food options with airport lines being long due to poor staffing and hotel restaurants having ad-hoc hours). Agents in the larger stations are overworked due to not having enough manpower (particularly on the ramp), thus causing chronic delays as well as ramp mishaps. Then factor in the MUCH HIGHER number of passenger misbehavior incidents and more challenging travel climate, it’s a recipe for disaster. Summer has ALWAYS been a challenging season for airlines. But this summer travel season has been the **most** trying, and it was inevitable that sick calls (which have ALWAYS been high in the summer time) would have been quite high. People are not machines. Someone at headquarters (presumably from the comforts of their Covid home office) made the call to add hundreds of daily flights to the last schedule with the current staffing (Southwest started hiring for additional front line staff/flight attendants ***weeks AFTER*** adding these flights).

It’s going to be a LONG summer for the front line people at SWA, many of whom I know that work there are at their wits end. This is no longer Herb and Colleen’s legacy that remains. It’s all about the almighty dollar, and a decision that someone higher up made from the comforts of working from home without considering the severe and detrimental impact on the very people who are the **face of the airline.** And the potential subsequent damage to their brand and image, and loss of public goodwill. Their old saying “without a heart it’s just a machine” is being used as an internal meme amongst employees, many of whom now feel like they are just … robots going through the motions. Employee morale amongst the front line work groups is at an all time low and the messaging from management is tone deaf. There is a huge disconnect between headquarters and front line workers, and employees are now realizing they are all just another number. WN has finally become just like all the other airlines. Employees are also sick and tired of being scapegoated as the reason for the operational mess people are headquarters created. There are **too many** middle and higher up management types at Southwest now that those at the top probably have NO idea how bad things have become. Unless drastic changes are made, last week’s crisis is bound to occur again. Most long time front line SWA employees and cheerleaders I know tossed out the koolaid after last week. 
 
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barney captain
Posts: 2444
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:57 am

n562wn wrote:
orlandocfi wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:

The US flag in respect to marketing hit its largest stride in the several years following 9/11; for obvious reasons. The past ten or so years it has morphed into the marketing theme of Harley Davidson motorcycles and cheap "tough guy" apparel and merchandise . It does not have the mass appeal as it did 20 years ago. This livery reflects that. It is far beyond time that the bastardization of our flag be phased out of advertising and corporate messaging, and returning it to its glory as the country's flag. No more flag-branded T-shirts, dew rags, coffee cups, and toilet paper roll holders. If you want to respect the flag, buy a flag and hang it up outside your house and follow the flag code.

Surprising they went this route with a 50th livery; something better representing their history, their people, and their vision of the future would have been far more pleasing.


I agree with your assessment. I really think this was a missed opportunity to honor our military branches with a special plane, especially considering the large numbers of active and retired military employees at Southwest. Alaska has a very nice paint job to honor military personnel.

Meh, as a veteran myself with more deployments than toes on my feet and fingers on my hand, and who also proudly hangs a flag on my front lawn, I honestly see no problem with the paint scheme. It’s sad we live in a world where literally anything, such as pride in your own nation can be misconstrued as offensive or “bastardized”.


Nailed it.

And thank you for your service.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:56 am

LUVisLOST wrote:
This has been a challenging year for the airlines, Southwest included. They have some DEEP soul searching to do with employees being worked to the MAX and being ”plane” exhausted. I’ve heard accounts of agents walking off the job and other departments calling out sick from being overworked and burned out (shifts constantly being extended via mandatory overtime, some on a daily basis). Southwest added a bunch of flights to the schedule for the summer without adequate staffing across ALL front line departments. Pilots and flight attendants are fatigued from trips constantly changing to longer work days with short layovers and less sleep (and having poor access to food options with airport lines being long due to poor staffing and hotel restaurants having ad-hoc hours). Agents in the larger stations are overworked due to not having enough manpower (particularly on the ramp), thus causing chronic delays as well as ramp mishaps. Then factor in the MUCH HIGHER number of passenger misbehavior incidents and more challenging travel climate, it’s a recipe for disaster. Summer has ALWAYS been a challenging season for airlines. But this summer travel season has been the **most** trying, and it was inevitable that sick calls (which have ALWAYS been high in the summer time) would have been quite high. People are not machines. Someone at headquarters (presumably from the comforts of their Covid home office) made the call to add hundreds of daily flights to the last schedule with the current staffing (Southwest started hiring for additional front line staff/flight attendants ***weeks AFTER*** adding these flights).

It’s going to be a LONG summer for the front line people at SWA, many of whom I know that work there are at their wits end. This is no longer Herb and Colleen’s legacy that remains. It’s all about the almighty dollar, and a decision that someone higher up made from the comforts of working from home without considering the severe and detrimental impact on the very people who are the **face of the airline.** And the potential subsequent damage to their brand and image, and loss of public goodwill. Their old saying “without a heart it’s just a machine” is being used as an internal meme amongst employees, many of whom now feel like they are just … robots going through the motions. Employee morale amongst the front line work groups is at an all time low and the messaging from management is tone deaf. There is a huge disconnect between headquarters and front line workers, and employees are now realizing they are all just another number. WN has finally become just like all the other airlines. Employees are also sick and tired of being scapegoated as the reason for the operational mess people are headquarters created. There are **too many** middle and higher up management types at Southwest now that those at the top probably have NO idea how bad things have become. Unless drastic changes are made, last week’s crisis is bound to occur again. Most long time front line SWA employees and cheerleaders I know tossed out the koolaid after last week. 



Say it louder so the folks in Dallas can hear you.
 
jco613
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:22 pm

Just broke in CNBC Gary Kelly will step down as CEO 2/1/22. Robert Jordan will take over and GK will remain executive chairman

Edit: GK just called in on CNBC but my volume was off so I missed it
 
orlandocfi
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:53 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:32 pm

jco613 wrote:
Just broke in CNBC Gary Kelly will step down as CEO 2/1/22. Robert Jordan will take over and GK will remain executive chairman

Edit: GK just called in on CNBC but my volume was off so I missed it


They were talking on the phone to Phil LeBeau about the leadership changes. Very interesting times ahead…
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:33 pm

LUVisLOST wrote:
This has been a challenging year for the airlines, Southwest included. They have some DEEP soul searching to do with employees being worked to the MAX and being ”plane” exhausted. I’ve heard accounts of agents walking off the job and other departments calling out sick from being overworked and burned out (shifts constantly being extended via mandatory overtime, some on a daily basis). Southwest added a bunch of flights to the schedule for the summer without adequate staffing across ALL front line departments. Pilots and flight attendants are fatigued from trips constantly changing to longer work days with short layovers and less sleep (and having poor access to food options with airport lines being long due to poor staffing and hotel restaurants having ad-hoc hours). Agents in the larger stations are overworked due to not having enough manpower (particularly on the ramp), thus causing chronic delays as well as ramp mishaps. Then factor in the MUCH HIGHER number of passenger misbehavior incidents and more challenging travel climate, it’s a recipe for disaster. Summer has ALWAYS been a challenging season for airlines. But this summer travel season has been the **most** trying, and it was inevitable that sick calls (which have ALWAYS been high in the summer time) would have been quite high. People are not machines. Someone at headquarters (presumably from the comforts of their Covid home office) made the call to add hundreds of daily flights to the last schedule with the current staffing (Southwest started hiring for additional front line staff/flight attendants ***weeks AFTER*** adding these flights).

It’s going to be a LONG summer for the front line people at SWA, many of whom I know that work there are at their wits end. This is no longer Herb and Colleen’s legacy that remains. It’s all about the almighty dollar, and a decision that someone higher up made from the comforts of working from home without considering the severe and detrimental impact on the very people who are the **face of the airline.** And the potential subsequent damage to their brand and image, and loss of public goodwill. Their old saying “without a heart it’s just a machine” is being used as an internal meme amongst employees, many of whom now feel like they are just … robots going through the motions. Employee morale amongst the front line work groups is at an all time low and the messaging from management is tone deaf. There is a huge disconnect between headquarters and front line workers, and employees are now realizing they are all just another number. WN has finally become just like all the other airlines. Employees are also sick and tired of being scapegoated as the reason for the operational mess people are headquarters created. There are **too many** middle and higher up management types at Southwest now that those at the top probably have NO idea how bad things have become. Unless drastic changes are made, last week’s crisis is bound to occur again. Most long time front line SWA employees and cheerleaders I know tossed out the koolaid after last week. 


100% ALL THIS! The disconnect between HQ, line employees, and customers is like I’ve never seen before at WN. HQ spent last week patting themselves on the back (even though the guy that built the airline would be horrified to see what’s going on right now) while line workers were left to deal with the fallout from the meltdowns… Their expansion was fine while the bulk of their network was dormant but now that they’re trying to “wake up” the “old” part of their network while maintaining all of this new flying they’re spread way too thin. I used to be a WN shareholder and two things always stuck out at me in the booklet that came with the annual report:

1) Don’t try to be all things to all people.
2) Take care of your employees and they’ll take care of the customers.

Those two things appear to have been abandoned at WN. That doesn’t mean WN is going out of business, heck it doesn’t even mean they’re going to shrink. It means they’re now just another legacy airline, no better or worse than any of the others.
Last edited by AMALH747430 on Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Wneast
Posts: 961
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:36 pm

jco613 wrote:
Just broke in CNBC Gary Kelly will step down as CEO 2/1/22. Robert Jordan will take over and GK will remain executive chairman

Edit: GK just called in on CNBC but my volume was off so I missed it

Will WN stay a one plane company now and what else might change ?
 
jco613
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:38 pm

Wneast wrote:
jco613 wrote:
Just broke in CNBC Gary Kelly will step down as CEO 2/1/22. Robert Jordan will take over and GK will remain executive chairman

Edit: GK just called in on CNBC but my volume was off so I missed it

Will WN stay a one plane company now and what else might change ?

Gary is going to be in an executive role for at least 5 years after. Robert has been at WN since ‘88. I wouldn’t read too much into this as far as radical changes. But, who knows
 
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:51 pm

jco613 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
jco613 wrote:
Just broke in CNBC Gary Kelly will step down as CEO 2/1/22. Robert Jordan will take over and GK will remain executive chairman

Edit: GK just called in on CNBC but my volume was off so I missed it

Will WN stay a one plane company now and what else might change ?

Gary is going to be in an executive role for at least 5 years after. Robert has been at WN since ‘88. I wouldn’t read too much into this as far as radical changes. But, who knows


I tend to agree, Jordan is an insider and GK is sticking around in the Exec. Chairman role. Don’t expect any radical changes, this is just the natural progression of inside folks moving up the ladder. WN, despite their issues of late, is still the most profitable airline in the US. That would have to change before any radical steps are taken and that’s not likely to happen for some time. Luv ‘em or hate em, they’re still bringing in the $$$.
Last edited by AMALH747430 on Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:53 pm

All things considered - until the past 2-3 months, GK has been a great CEO. Nothing about the success (in terms of profitability) of WN changed until COVID.

That said - I do agree - the next 5 years are going to be crucial for WN to determine their identity. There’s a definite identity crisis going on right now as they flounder between the LUV/Herb airline of old and something of an legacy-esq carrier of new. Not sure it really matters to their customer base, but time will tell.
 
tomaheath
Posts: 701
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:07 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
All things considered - until the past 2-3 months, GK has been a great CEO. Nothing about the success (in terms of profitability) of WN changed until COVID.

That said - I do agree - the next 5 years are going to be crucial for WN to determine their identity. There’s a definite identity crisis going on right now as they flounder between the LUV/Herb airline of old and something of an legacy-esq carrier of new. Not sure it really matters to their customer base, but time will tell.

What happened in the past 2-3 months?
 
bob75013
Posts: 1092
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:42 pm

Wneast wrote:
jco613 wrote:
Just broke in CNBC Gary Kelly will step down as CEO 2/1/22. Robert Jordan will take over and GK will remain executive chairman

Edit: GK just called in on CNBC but my volume was off so I missed it

Will WN stay a one plane company now and what else might change ?


Well, with something like 400 MAXs on order, what do you think?
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:46 pm

"My focus will be business and fleet strategies, governmental and airport affairs, and leading the Board of Directors. Also, I will continue to serve as Chairman for Airlines for America. On the cusp of a new era, I am confident our future is bright."

Fleet strategies...HAH!
 
joeblow10
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:56 pm

tomaheath wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
All things considered - until the past 2-3 months, GK has been a great CEO. Nothing about the success (in terms of profitability) of WN changed until COVID.

That said - I do agree - the next 5 years are going to be crucial for WN to determine their identity. There’s a definite identity crisis going on right now as they flounder between the LUV/Herb airline of old and something of an legacy-esq carrier of new. Not sure it really matters to their customer base, but time will tell.

What happened in the past 2-3 months?


I would say the recent few weeks speak for themselves. I guess it really didn’t begin until Memorial Day or so… but leading/building a schedule that was far ahead of available staffing is never a recipe for success.

Don’t get me wrong - network planning I’m sure was the one to do it - but you can bet the executives “signed off” on the aggressive plan
 
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southwest1675
Posts: 1617
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:34 pm

LUVisLOST wrote:
This has been a challenging year for the airlines, Southwest included. They have some DEEP soul searching to do with employees being worked to the MAX and being ”plane” exhausted. I’ve heard accounts of agents walking off the job and other departments calling out sick from being overworked and burned out (shifts constantly being extended via mandatory overtime, some on a daily basis). Southwest added a bunch of flights to the schedule for the summer without adequate staffing across ALL front line departments. Pilots and flight attendants are fatigued from trips constantly changing to longer work days with short layovers and less sleep (and having poor access to food options with airport lines being long due to poor staffing and hotel restaurants having ad-hoc hours). Agents in the larger stations are overworked due to not having enough manpower (particularly on the ramp), thus causing chronic delays as well as ramp mishaps. Then factor in the MUCH HIGHER number of passenger misbehavior incidents and more challenging travel climate, it’s a recipe for disaster. Summer has ALWAYS been a challenging season for airlines. But this summer travel season has been the **most** trying, and it was inevitable that sick calls (which have ALWAYS been high in the summer time) would have been quite high. People are not machines. Someone at headquarters (presumably from the comforts of their Covid home office) made the call to add hundreds of daily flights to the last schedule with the current staffing (Southwest started hiring for additional front line staff/flight attendants ***weeks AFTER*** adding these flights).

It’s going to be a LONG summer for the front line people at SWA, many of whom I know that work there are at their wits end. This is no longer Herb and Colleen’s legacy that remains. It’s all about the almighty dollar, and a decision that someone higher up made from the comforts of working from home without considering the severe and detrimental impact on the very people who are the **face of the airline.** And the potential subsequent damage to their brand and image, and loss of public goodwill. Their old saying “without a heart it’s just a machine” is being used as an internal meme amongst employees, many of whom now feel like they are just … robots going through the motions. Employee morale amongst the front line work groups is at an all time low and the messaging from management is tone deaf. There is a huge disconnect between headquarters and front line workers, and employees are now realizing they are all just another number. WN has finally become just like all the other airlines. Employees are also sick and tired of being scapegoated as the reason for the operational mess people are headquarters created. There are **too many** middle and higher up management types at Southwest now that those at the top probably have NO idea how bad things have become. Unless drastic changes are made, last week’s crisis is bound to occur again. Most long time front line SWA employees and cheerleaders I know tossed out the koolaid after last week. 


To be fair, it’s arguably been this way since the AirTran acquisition. It’s just at an all time low now.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4446
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:52 pm

Some kind of schedule update for September got pushed overnight. Not sure how extensive. I just know the Stl-sav Sunday flight is gone after the first weekend of the month now.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4770
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:20 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
LUVisLOST wrote:
This has been a challenging year for the airlines, Southwest included. They have some DEEP soul searching to do with employees being worked to the MAX and being ”plane” exhausted. I’ve heard accounts of agents walking off the job and other departments calling out sick from being overworked and burned out (shifts constantly being extended via mandatory overtime, some on a daily basis). Southwest added a bunch of flights to the schedule for the summer without adequate staffing across ALL front line departments. Pilots and flight attendants are fatigued from trips constantly changing to longer work days with short layovers and less sleep (and having poor access to food options with airport lines being long due to poor staffing and hotel restaurants having ad-hoc hours). Agents in the larger stations are overworked due to not having enough manpower (particularly on the ramp), thus causing chronic delays as well as ramp mishaps. Then factor in the MUCH HIGHER number of passenger misbehavior incidents and more challenging travel climate, it’s a recipe for disaster. Summer has ALWAYS been a challenging season for airlines. But this summer travel season has been the **most** trying, and it was inevitable that sick calls (which have ALWAYS been high in the summer time) would have been quite high. People are not machines. Someone at headquarters (presumably from the comforts of their Covid home office) made the call to add hundreds of daily flights to the last schedule with the current staffing (Southwest started hiring for additional front line staff/flight attendants ***weeks AFTER*** adding these flights).

It’s going to be a LONG summer for the front line people at SWA, many of whom I know that work there are at their wits end. This is no longer Herb and Colleen’s legacy that remains. It’s all about the almighty dollar, and a decision that someone higher up made from the comforts of working from home without considering the severe and detrimental impact on the very people who are the **face of the airline.** And the potential subsequent damage to their brand and image, and loss of public goodwill. Their old saying “without a heart it’s just a machine” is being used as an internal meme amongst employees, many of whom now feel like they are just … robots going through the motions. Employee morale amongst the front line work groups is at an all time low and the messaging from management is tone deaf. There is a huge disconnect between headquarters and front line workers, and employees are now realizing they are all just another number. WN has finally become just like all the other airlines. Employees are also sick and tired of being scapegoated as the reason for the operational mess people are headquarters created. There are **too many** middle and higher up management types at Southwest now that those at the top probably have NO idea how bad things have become. Unless drastic changes are made, last week’s crisis is bound to occur again. Most long time front line SWA employees and cheerleaders I know tossed out the koolaid after last week. 


To be fair, it’s arguably been this way since the AirTran acquisition. It’s just at an all time low now.


In my experience it began the day Herb and Colleen retired from day-to-day involvement. The AirTran acquisition was for sure another pivotal moment.

We are all feeling it right now. A year ago I would have considered this a good problem to have but yeah, these are challenging times.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:40 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
LUVisLOST wrote:
This has been a challenging year for the airlines, Southwest included. They have some DEEP soul searching to do with employees being worked to the MAX and being ”plane” exhausted. I’ve heard accounts of agents walking off the job and other departments calling out sick from being overworked and burned out (shifts constantly being extended via mandatory overtime, some on a daily basis). Southwest added a bunch of flights to the schedule for the summer without adequate staffing across ALL front line departments. Pilots and flight attendants are fatigued from trips constantly changing to longer work days with short layovers and less sleep (and having poor access to food options with airport lines being long due to poor staffing and hotel restaurants having ad-hoc hours). Agents in the larger stations are overworked due to not having enough manpower (particularly on the ramp), thus causing chronic delays as well as ramp mishaps. Then factor in the MUCH HIGHER number of passenger misbehavior incidents and more challenging travel climate, it’s a recipe for disaster. Summer has ALWAYS been a challenging season for airlines. But this summer travel season has been the **most** trying, and it was inevitable that sick calls (which have ALWAYS been high in the summer time) would have been quite high. People are not machines. Someone at headquarters (presumably from the comforts of their Covid home office) made the call to add hundreds of daily flights to the last schedule with the current staffing (Southwest started hiring for additional front line staff/flight attendants ***weeks AFTER*** adding these flights).

It’s going to be a LONG summer for the front line people at SWA, many of whom I know that work there are at their wits end. This is no longer Herb and Colleen’s legacy that remains. It’s all about the almighty dollar, and a decision that someone higher up made from the comforts of working from home without considering the severe and detrimental impact on the very people who are the **face of the airline.** And the potential subsequent damage to their brand and image, and loss of public goodwill. Their old saying “without a heart it’s just a machine” is being used as an internal meme amongst employees, many of whom now feel like they are just … robots going through the motions. Employee morale amongst the front line work groups is at an all time low and the messaging from management is tone deaf. There is a huge disconnect between headquarters and front line workers, and employees are now realizing they are all just another number. WN has finally become just like all the other airlines. Employees are also sick and tired of being scapegoated as the reason for the operational mess people are headquarters created. There are **too many** middle and higher up management types at Southwest now that those at the top probably have NO idea how bad things have become. Unless drastic changes are made, last week’s crisis is bound to occur again. Most long time front line SWA employees and cheerleaders I know tossed out the koolaid after last week. 


To be fair, it’s arguably been this way since the AirTran acquisition. It’s just at an all time low now.


In my experience it began the day Herb and Colleen retired from day-to-day involvement. The AirTran acquisition was for sure another pivotal moment.

We are all feeling it right now. A year ago I would have considered this a good problem to have but yeah, these are challenging times.


And guess who pitched the idea to acquire AirTran? Bob Jordan. Definitely interesting times ahead. RIP Herb. Glad I got to meet him. Been here 15 years, and most of us really aren’t feeling the LUV right now.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:00 pm

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3709698-s ... king_alpha

"In an interview with CNBC, Kelly also predicted that the company didn't have enough airplanes for 2022 and 2023."

ACQUISITION. Bob transitioned AirTran and will transition the next one. Tick Tock!
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2493
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:03 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Some kind of schedule update for September got pushed overnight. Not sure how extensive. I just know the Stl-sav Sunday flight is gone after the first weekend of the month now.


Ya it looks like they pulled back some stuff that didn't gain enough traction to make it thru September and October.
Some return briefly over Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Years.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2493
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:27 pm

So Early market speculation seem to think with the new CEO WN will make a merger play for Spirit Airlines.
This would not only help WN regain its lost ground in the Florida market but also help WN finish out it's international ambitions.
Many of the Key players that worked under Bob Jordan at WN during the merger with AirTran are now key players at Spirit Airlines.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
N383SW
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:34 pm

LUVisLOST wrote:
This has been a challenging year for the airlines, Southwest included. They have some DEEP soul searching to do with employees being worked to the MAX and being ”plane” exhausted. I’ve heard accounts of agents walking off the job and other departments calling out sick from being overworked and burned out (shifts constantly being extended via mandatory overtime, some on a daily basis). Southwest added a bunch of flights to the schedule for the summer without adequate staffing across ALL front line departments. Pilots and flight attendants are fatigued from trips constantly changing to longer work days with short layovers and less sleep (and having poor access to food options with airport lines being long due to poor staffing and hotel restaurants having ad-hoc hours). Agents in the larger stations are overworked due to not having enough manpower (particularly on the ramp), thus causing chronic delays as well as ramp mishaps. Then factor in the MUCH HIGHER number of passenger misbehavior incidents and more challenging travel climate, it’s a recipe for disaster. Summer has ALWAYS been a challenging season for airlines. But this summer travel season has been the **most** trying, and it was inevitable that sick calls (which have ALWAYS been high in the summer time) would have been quite high. People are not machines. Someone at headquarters (presumably from the comforts of their Covid home office) made the call to add hundreds of daily flights to the last schedule with the current staffing (Southwest started hiring for additional front line staff/flight attendants ***weeks AFTER*** adding these flights).

It’s going to be a LONG summer for the front line people at SWA, many of whom I know that work there are at their wits end. This is no longer Herb and Colleen’s legacy that remains. It’s all about the almighty dollar, and a decision that someone higher up made from the comforts of working from home without considering the severe and detrimental impact on the very people who are the **face of the airline.** And the potential subsequent damage to their brand and image, and loss of public goodwill. Their old saying “without a heart it’s just a machine” is being used as an internal meme amongst employees, many of whom now feel like they are just … robots going through the motions. Employee morale amongst the front line work groups is at an all time low and the messaging from management is tone deaf. There is a huge disconnect between headquarters and front line workers, and employees are now realizing they are all just another number. WN has finally become just like all the other airlines. Employees are also sick and tired of being scapegoated as the reason for the operational mess people are headquarters created. There are **too many** middle and higher up management types at Southwest now that those at the top probably have NO idea how bad things have become. Unless drastic changes are made, last week’s crisis is bound to occur again. Most long time front line SWA employees and cheerleaders I know tossed out the koolaid after last week. 


1000% SPOT ON!!! Thank you for laying it out and telling the TRUTH!!!
 
WN732
Posts: 1014
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:36 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
So Early market speculation seem to think with the new CEO WN will make a merger play for Spirit Airlines.
This would not only help WN regain its lost ground in the Florida market but also help WN finish out it's international ambitions.
Many of the Key players that worked under Bob Jordan at WN during the merger with AirTran are now key players at Spirit Airlines.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy


That is definitely not a direction that I'd like to see them go down. Allegiant and Frontier would be extremely happy about that though.
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:38 pm

 
Jshank83
Posts: 4446
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:48 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
So Early market speculation seem to think with the new CEO WN will make a merger play for Spirit Airlines.
This would not only help WN regain its lost ground in the Florida market but also help WN finish out it's international ambitions.
Many of the Key players that worked under Bob Jordan at WN during the merger with AirTran are now key players at Spirit Airlines.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy


That's a lot of not boeing aircraft.
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:02 pm

 
airzona11
Posts: 1884
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:06 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
All things considered - until the past 2-3 months, GK has been a great CEO. Nothing about the success (in terms of profitability) of WN changed until COVID.

That said - I do agree - the next 5 years are going to be crucial for WN to determine their identity. There’s a definite identity crisis going on right now as they flounder between the LUV/Herb airline of old and something of an legacy-esq carrier of new. Not sure it really matters to their customer base, but time will tell.


Every company is experiencing that now. Labor has never been more of a challenge. A swing in demand to accompany it has made it unprecedented.

WN was, is, and will continue to be a successful company,
 
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southwest1675
Posts: 1617
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:09 pm

I don’t think WN will be an all 737 fleet in 3-5 years..
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:23 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
I don’t think WN will be an all 737 fleet in 3-5 years..


I totally agree.
 
User avatar
southwest1675
Posts: 1617
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:33 pm

What are a few true remaining p2p WN routes? Seems like every flight is going to MDW, BWI, LAS, BNA, MCO, etc lol
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
avi8
Posts: 1358
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:37 pm

TPA and AUS still have a fair bit of p2p routes. But I agree, it seems like most flights go to: HOU, DAL, MDW, BWI, ATL, BNA, DEN, PHX, LAS, STL, MCO.
avi8
 
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LotsaRunway
Posts: 465
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:59 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
https://twitter.com/jimcramer/status/1408058405546201090

Acquisition

"...is about to become one of the biggest carriers..."??? Doesn't it's current size already put it there?

wnflyguy wrote:
So Early market speculation seem to think with the new CEO WN will make a merger play for Spirit Airlines.
This would not only help WN regain its lost ground in the Florida market but also help WN finish out it's international ambitions.
Many of the Key players that worked under Bob Jordan at WN during the merger with AirTran are now key players at Spirit Airlines.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

With all the talk about needing more planes, I don't know if going after NK really moves the needle much unless they want to eliminate a competitor. AS would move them in the right direction with all their boeings and a few compatible growth markets. Strategically, I would think B6 provides the most attractive assets. Rather than add a few nuisance A320s, why not bring in a large fleet along with JFK and BOS dominance? Go big or go home!
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:10 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
https://twitter.com/jimcramer/status/1408058405546201090

Acquisition

"...is about to become one of the biggest carriers..."??? Doesn't it's current size already put it there?

wnflyguy wrote:
So Early market speculation seem to think with the new CEO WN will make a merger play for Spirit Airlines.
This would not only help WN regain its lost ground in the Florida market but also help WN finish out it's international ambitions.
Many of the Key players that worked under Bob Jordan at WN during the merger with AirTran are now key players at Spirit Airlines.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

With all the talk about needing more planes, I don't know if going after NK really moves the needle much unless they want to eliminate a competitor. AS would move them in the right direction with all their boeings and a few compatible growth markets. Strategically, I would think B6 provides the most attractive assets. Rather than add a few nuisance A320s, why not bring in a large fleet along with JFK and BOS dominance? Go big or go home!


Bob Forano was AirTran CEO and then moved over to Spirit, but not sure if he's still there. Jordan has been with WN since 1988 and was made President through the acquisition of AirTran. He transitioned the acquisition. It depends on what they want. Hawaiian would give them so a great deal of revenue when they cancel the codeshare with B6 (see HA route map). Frontier would give them Denver which is what they keep saying they want. B6 would give them NY, Boston, Caribbean, S. America and now London and then Europe. Spirit would give them Florida, some S. America and Latin America. It's going to get interesting.
 
planecane
Posts: 1713
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:10 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
I don’t think WN will be an all 737 fleet in 3-5 years..

Unless they merge with somebody who flies other aircraft, they will be. Much of the reasoning for choosing the MAX 7 was to stay an all 737 fleet.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 26533
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:10 pm

Merging with NK would further the race to the bottom and since I dislike the idea it'll probably be what ends up happening. I see a major culture clash happening, along with a lot of internal discontent.

The merger with FL didn't really move the needle. They ended up discarding the 717s and didn't make the ATL presence an asset. Not only did they take the thorn out of DL's side at ATL, they also paid DL to take the 717s. At best they ended up with more 73Gs and the LGA presence. Not sure why this would represent a career highlight for the new CEO or why he'd seek a repeat performance.

Seems AS would make a lot of sense from the fleet and culture point of view, B6 would be an interesting move to grow stature and prestige rather than get into the mud with NK. Thus, as above, NK it will be.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:16 pm

Revelation wrote:
Merging with NK would further the race to the bottom and since I dislike the idea it'll probably be what ends up happening. I see a major culture clash happening, along with a lot of internal discontent.

The merger with FL didn't really move the needle. They ended up discarding the 717s and didn't make the ATL presence an asset. Not only did they take the thorn out of DL's side at ATL, they also paid DL to take the 717s. At best they ended up with more 73Gs and the LGA presence. Not sure why this would represent a career highlight for the new CEO or why he'd seek a repeat performance.

Seems AS would make a lot of sense from the fleet and culture point of view, B6 would be an interesting move to grow stature and prestige rather than get into the mud with NK. Thus, as above, NK it will be.


JetBlue and Alaska are the only two that make sense to me.
 
Western727
Posts: 2004
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:18 pm

Revelation wrote:
Merging with NK would further the race to the bottom and since I dislike the idea it'll probably be what ends up happening. I see a major culture clash happening, along with a lot of internal discontent.

The merger with FL didn't really move the needle. They ended up discarding the 717s and didn't make the ATL presence an asset. Not only did they take the thorn out of DL's side at ATL, they also paid DL to take the 717s. At best they ended up with more 73Gs and the LGA presence. Not sure why this would represent a career highlight for the new CEO or why he'd seek a repeat performance.

Seems AS would make a lot of sense from the fleet and culture point of view, B6 would be an interesting move to grow stature and prestige rather than get into the mud with NK. Thus, as above, NK it will be.


I have much respect for you, Revelation, but I truly hope you're wrong about WN + NK. It feels like Target taking over Family Dollar. Nonetheless, I have a VERY uneasy feeling that you may end up being correct...
Jack @ AUS
 
Wneast
Posts: 961
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:32 pm

I think AS, HA, B6 have the most to offer but watch WN just buy NK to take out a competitor
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9850
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:37 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3709698-southwest-arilines-ceo-sees-pick-up-in-business-travel-before-end-of-the-year-but-not-to-pre-pandemic-levels-luv?mail_subject=luv-southwest-ceo-sees-pick-up-in-business-travel-before-end-of-the-year-but-not-to-pre-pandemic-levels&utm_campaign=rta-stock-news&utm_content=link-3&utm_medium=email&utm_source=seeking_alpha

"In an interview with CNBC, Kelly also predicted that the company didn't have enough airplanes for 2022 and 2023."

ACQUISITION. Bob transitioned AirTran and will transition the next one. Tick Tock!


Don't have enough planes is a silly concept in a deregulated environment. Don't have enough planes for what? They can optimize for market share, PRASM, margin %, ROIC... Not all of those point to big orders for new planes.

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