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Jshank83
Posts: 4449
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:23 pm

So what happened for WN to get to this point where they are so short staffed? Retirements that weren't replaced? It isn't like they have more planes (or at least not that many more). Seems like it is at all levels- operations at many airports, in flight workers, fleet, etc.

Too think at one point there were talking laying people off...
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5684
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:59 pm

The way I see it, in another year or two, WN's overview of their business model completely changes (a la Jordon) and they suck up Breeze -- instant access to smaller, thinner routes and a pot full of small planes to serve them. And it doesn't empty WN's savings account!

This is the NEWER Southwest on the way folks.

bb
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2495
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:14 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/southwest-urges-employees-to-take-extra-shifts-over-july-4-to-avoid-flight-disruptions.html

Double time pay.

Outside looking in talking with several different friends in several different departments.

Most everyone is at the breaking point across the board.
WN system is in jeopardy of a massive meltdown from lack of staffing from the results of HDQ over stuffing the flight schedules. The last week even into today has seen huge weather related thunderstorms events causing a out of balance in the system. Unlike pre Covid conditions they now lack the staffing levels to recover.
Last week into this week it's been a pointing finger blame game using threating emergency sick call towards several work groups.
July they double down on extra flights due to demand so now there trying the Let's throw double time at everyone to fill the void.
You know the moral is at a all time low when the Pilots quickly came out and SAID NO! You creators mess HDQ you fix it.

Also add not even a year ago under the daily stresses of Covid they sent out Furlough Warn notifications along with the push for 10% pay cuts. All this while Turning down government loans because it would have prevented lucrative stock buybacks for the shareholders and BOD.

Everyone is spent, tired and trying to just get back to a normal home life with family and friends after covid.
The Daily Mandatory overtime or extra flying has everyone saying F it.
Herbs Era it was what ever it takes because Herbs WN took care of its people so they in return took care of WN with the all hands on deck mentalities.

GK legacy been make Wall Street happy first. Causing everyone to feel like a number and only care about the 5th and the 20th.

Hopefully They see the writing on the wall and peddle backwards to repair what they can.

I honestly think July and Aug are going to limp on through with horrible OTP.

Coming into this summer they had a working schedule until they got greedy by adding to much additional flying.

Prayers for my WN peeps.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:21 pm

Rumors are that the ramp is going to walk off the job in the next few weeks to bring attention to the horrible working conditions being forced upon them due to the abysmal staffing levels. Many are quitting on the spot. Some have been hospitalized.
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:33 pm

Offering double time as incentive to pick up trips from July 1-7 has eliminated a handful of trips from open time. The typical high flyers are not flying as much due to exhaustion and because they're fed up with the mistreatment by customers and management. An FO friend told me that there are trips available on the weekends in July that they have reserved scheduled. Management blaming frontline employees has caused additional verbal attacks in the airports and on the aircraft. Someone needs to come forward and own the problem and apologize profusely to employees and customers. This sh*t is only going to get worse before it gets better.
 
Runway765
Posts: 379
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:50 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
So what happened for WN to get to this point where they are so short staffed? Retirements that weren't replaced? It isn't like they have more planes (or at least not that many more). Seems like it is at all levels- operations at many airports, in flight workers, fleet, etc.

Too think at one point there were talking laying people off...


I had a feeling demand (at least domestically) was gonna come back pretty soon as soon as COVID wound down. Surprised they did as many buyouts/early retirements as they did.
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:53 pm

Runway765 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
So what happened for WN to get to this point where they are so short staffed? Retirements that weren't replaced? It isn't like they have more planes (or at least not that many more). Seems like it is at all levels- operations at many airports, in flight workers, fleet, etc.

Too think at one point there were talking laying people off...


I had a feeling demand (at least domestically) was gonna come back pretty soon as soon as COVID wound down. Surprised they did as many buyouts/early retirements as they did.


^^^this

they may have off loaded some topped out personnel but didn't fill the vacancy. recalling nearly 2800 flight attendants with nearly 1000 now retired left them in a pickle. YET, they point the finger at the frontline employee.
 
tomaheath
Posts: 701
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:55 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/southwest-urges-employees-to-take-extra-shifts-over-july-4-to-avoid-flight-disruptions.html

Double time pay.

Outside looking in talking with several different friends in several different departments.

Most everyone is at the breaking point across the board.
WN system is in jeopardy of a massive meltdown from lack of staffing from the results of HDQ over stuffing the flight schedules. The last week even into today has seen huge weather related thunderstorms events causing a out of balance in the system. Unlike pre Covid conditions they now lack the staffing levels to recover.
Last week into this week it's been a pointing finger blame game using threating emergency sick call towards several work groups.
July they double down on extra flights due to demand so now there trying the Let's throw double time at everyone to fill the void.
You know the moral is at a all time low when the Pilots quickly came out and SAID NO! You creators mess HDQ you fix it.

Also add not even a year ago under the daily stresses of Covid they sent out Furlough Warn notifications along with the push for 10% pay cuts. All this while Turning down government loans because it would have prevented lucrative stock buybacks for the shareholders and BOD.

Everyone is spent, tired and trying to just get back to a normal home life with family and friends after covid.
The Daily Mandatory overtime or extra flying has everyone saying F it.
Herbs Era it was what ever it takes because Herbs WN took care of its people so they in return took care of WN with the all hands on deck mentalities.

GK legacy been make Wall Street happy first. Causing everyone to feel like a number and only care about the 5th and the 20th.

Hopefully They see the writing on the wall and peddle backwards to repair what they can.

I honestly think July and Aug are going to limp on through with horrible OTP.

Coming into this summer they had a working schedule until they got greedy by adding to much additional flying.

Prayers for my WN peeps.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

I don’t work in aviation but my employer is in a similar situation. Laid off a bunch of people a year ago now things are back to normal if not even more busier. The big wigs don’t want to hire anyone because it’s cheaper to pay us overtime witch people are starting to refuse even if they did want to hire the unemployment rate is so low here probably couldn’t get anyone anyways. I feel that many places maybe in a similar situation.
 
khaba
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:01 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:01 pm

they went full speed toward recovery. system meltdowns and storms didn't help, but this isn't a measured response to the current situation.

I met a higher-up on a visit, they had aspirations for a rapid recovery.
 
GreenCountry
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:33 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:51 pm

737max8 wrote:
People are thinking too much into HOU. It's just where WN has a brand new hangar and space to have an event. DAL is too busy.


Or maybe it's because HOU is where the plane got its paint job.
 
User avatar
SteveXC500
Posts: 679
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:14 pm

GreenCountry wrote:
737max8 wrote:
People are thinking too much into HOU. It's just where WN has a brand new hangar and space to have an event. DAL is too busy.


Or maybe it's because HOU is where the plane got its paint job.


If you are referring to N500WR, it was painted in Spokane.
 
User avatar
albspotter
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:13 pm

jplatts wrote:
tphuang wrote:
WN is facing a real threat in NK. It can try to take care of that threat now by buying out NK under the guise of pandemic or it can watch NK continue to grow 15% a year over the next few years and eat up margin of all its middle of america to Florida routes.


In the DFW/DAL market, NK has dropped DFW-DEN/RSW/IAH/MCI/MSP/OAK/PIT/PDX/SEA nonstop service whereas WN serves DEN, RSW, IAH, MCI, MSP, OAK, PIT, PDX, and SEA nonstop from DAL.

There are a few NK strongholds that NK doesn't currently serve nonstop from BNA such as BWI, ORD, DFW, DTW, IAH, and MYR, whereas WN serves BWI, DCA, ORD, MDW, DAL, DTW, HOU, IAH, and MYR nonstop from BNA.

There are also some travelers who would avoid NK at all costs due to the past bad experiences that other travelers have had on NK.

WN also still has opportunities to further expand in top contiguous U.S. markets that aren't currently served by NK such as ABQ, BUF, CVG, JAX, MEM, ORF, OKC, OMA, SAT, and SLC.

There are still some more adds to Florida and Vegas from markets not served by NK that could be made by WN such as
(a) the return of FLL-ALB/CVG/ROC nonstop service,
(b) the return of LAS-ALB/JAX/ORF nonstop service,
(c) the return of MCO-PWM/TUL nonstop service,
(e) the addition of FLL-GRR/ORF/OKC/OMA nonstop service,
(f) the addition of LAS-CVG/GRR/MEM nonstop service,
(g) the addition of MCO-COS/DSM/ELP nonstop service, and
(f) the addition of TPA-DSM/PWM/SYR nonstop service.

WN also still has nonstop service out of FLL, LAS, MCO, and TPA to some markets not currently served by NK.


As ALB being my home airport, I am currently praying and crossing my fingers that RSW-ALB and FLL-ALB returns when the next around of routes are announced in November.
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:14 pm

albspotter wrote:
jplatts wrote:
tphuang wrote:
WN is facing a real threat in NK. It can try to take care of that threat now by buying out NK under the guise of pandemic or it can watch NK continue to grow 15% a year over the next few years and eat up margin of all its middle of america to Florida routes.


In the DFW/DAL market, NK has dropped DFW-DEN/RSW/IAH/MCI/MSP/OAK/PIT/PDX/SEA nonstop service whereas WN serves DEN, RSW, IAH, MCI, MSP, OAK, PIT, PDX, and SEA nonstop from DAL.

There are a few NK strongholds that NK doesn't currently serve nonstop from BNA such as BWI, ORD, DFW, DTW, IAH, and MYR, whereas WN serves BWI, DCA, ORD, MDW, DAL, DTW, HOU, IAH, and MYR nonstop from BNA.

There are also some travelers who would avoid NK at all costs due to the past bad experiences that other travelers have had on NK.

WN also still has opportunities to further expand in top contiguous U.S. markets that aren't currently served by NK such as ABQ, BUF, CVG, JAX, MEM, ORF, OKC, OMA, SAT, and SLC.

There are still some more adds to Florida and Vegas from markets not served by NK that could be made by WN such as
(a) the return of FLL-ALB/CVG/ROC nonstop service,
(b) the return of LAS-ALB/JAX/ORF nonstop service,
(c) the return of MCO-PWM/TUL nonstop service,
(e) the addition of FLL-GRR/ORF/OKC/OMA nonstop service,
(f) the addition of LAS-CVG/GRR/MEM nonstop service,
(g) the addition of MCO-COS/DSM/ELP nonstop service, and
(f) the addition of TPA-DSM/PWM/SYR nonstop service.

WN also still has nonstop service out of FLL, LAS, MCO, and TPA to some markets not currently served by NK.


As ALB being my home airport, I am currently praying and crossing my fingers that RSW-ALB and FLL-ALB returns when the next around of routes are announced in November.

What makes you think we have to wait to November to see new routes ?
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4449
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:35 pm

Interesting post by southwest.

Nice of them to be up front about issues but it again shows how they are spread too thin because they expanded stations too fast. Can’t add frequencies back. Now they have to deal with a lot of operation issues and angry customers.

https://community.southwest.com/t5/Blog ... a-p/123113

We have heard from many of you who are frustrated with our flight schedule reliability and irregular operations. And we owe you a better understanding of what’s causing these disruptions and how we are working through them to offer you a better product.

We’ve been experiencing relentless summer storms across many parts of our country, including some of our busier airports, which has introduced a greater amount of delay than we traditionally see this time of year. This has impacted the entire airline industry.

Once our schedule is disrupted with irregular operations, we move quickly to recover our service and get Customers to their destinations. As we continue rebuilding our network to pre-pandemic levels, we currently have fewer frequencies between cities than in previous summer schedules. With fewer flight options between cities and high load factors, it’s more difficult to reschedule Customers and to reposition Crews when things don’t go as planned.

We were prepared for an increase in travel demand for the summer; however, irregular operations can disrupt even the best-laid plans. We have Teams across our organization working together with a continuous focus on serving you and our People. Here are some of the steps we are taking to improve your travel experience:

Our Network Operations Control (NOC) is closely monitoring our operations 24/7. The Team is focused on being as proactive as possible when we are forced to adjust our flight schedule based on weather or other conditions that might impact travel, so Customers have time to make alternate travel plans.

Our in-house Meteorology Team, which resides within the NOC, continues to provide real-time weather updates to help us proactively navigate any revisions to our service and allow us to get information to our Customers as quickly as possible.

Our Tech Ops Team is laser-focused on safely and efficiently making every possible aircraft available so we have extra aircraft that can help us recover our flight schedule.

We’ve updated our Customer communication to emphasize the importance of arriving at the airport early during this busy travel time.

We want you to have as much confidence in your travel plans as we can possibly give you, and we are working to ensure we deliver the experience you expect from Southwest.

​​​​​​​Thank you, once again, to our Customers and to our Southwest Employees, as we take to the sky this holiday weekend to celebrate Independence Day together. We are committed to continuing to keep everyone informed on specific actions we’re taking to make sure we get you to your travel destinations this summer.
 
Shakinthefat
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 6:56 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:23 pm

doulasc wrote:
will Southwest ever add Tallahassee with maybe 2 flights to ATL and a few to DAL and HOU

I was thinking the same about TYS from ATL, BWI maybe MDW.
 
WNagent310
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:11 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:59 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/southwest-urges-employees-to-take-extra-shifts-over-july-4-to-avoid-flight-disruptions.html

Double time pay.

Outside looking in talking with several different friends in several different departments.

Most everyone is at the breaking point across the board.
WN system is in jeopardy of a massive meltdown from lack of staffing from the results of HDQ over stuffing the flight schedules. The last week even into today has seen huge weather related thunderstorms events causing a out of balance in the system. Unlike pre Covid conditions they now lack the staffing levels to recover.
Last week into this week it's been a pointing finger blame game using threating emergency sick call towards several work groups.
July they double down on extra flights due to demand so now there trying the Let's throw double time at everyone to fill the void.
You know the moral is at a all time low when the Pilots quickly came out and SAID NO! You creators mess HDQ you fix it.

Also add not even a year ago under the daily stresses of Covid they sent out Furlough Warn notifications along with the push for 10% pay cuts. All this while Turning down government loans because it would have prevented lucrative stock buybacks for the shareholders and BOD.

Everyone is spent, tired and trying to just get back to a normal home life with family and friends after covid.
The Daily Mandatory overtime or extra flying has everyone saying F it.
Herbs Era it was what ever it takes because Herbs WN took care of its people so they in return took care of WN with the all hands on deck mentalities.

GK legacy been make Wall Street happy first. Causing everyone to feel like a number and only care about the 5th and the 20th.

Hopefully They see the writing on the wall and peddle backwards to repair what they can.

I honestly think July and Aug are going to limp on through with horrible OTP.

Coming into this summer they had a working schedule until they got greedy by adding to much additional flying.

Prayers for my WN peeps.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy


LAX ramp here, it’s sure been a crazy couple weeks. I’m on my first 2 day weekend in over a month & a half. Our station offered a month ETO for June which severely hampered our local operation and thus we became severely understaffed. Network Planning added too many flights in the middle of our bid so our start times are not in sync with the flight schedule we’ve been running this past month. PM agents across the board are getting mando’d 3-4 hours every night after their shift. First day off Mandatory OT has been going on all month long. At least 10-15 lines of OT needing to be filled every day. Finally had 2 days off all because I had to refuse the mando to get some rest. My body has been in “work mode” for so long I didn’t realize I’ve overworked my body. This past 48 hours has just been catching up on errands I haven’t done in weeks and complete exhaustion now that my body is becoming more relaxed it’s also flaring up all the pain & soreness that I’ve been working through.

It’s not just us. The whole system is chronically understaffed. DEN, PHX, HNL, OGG, MDW, ORD, CHS, SLC, AUS are the headline stations that are classified as “understaffed” at least on the Ramp/Ops side.

SAN is sending agents to PHX & HNL. SJC is sending agents to HNL. LAX is sending agents to PHX. To help alleviate the chronically understaffed stations temporarily.

Prayers out to all my WN Co-Hearts going through it on the frontline. Pilots, FA’s, Ramp, Ops, CSA’s, CSS’s, Cargo, etc… are all understaffed and will have any relief in sight for at least another couple weeks.
 
planecane
Posts: 1713
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:26 pm

Are all of the Hawaii flights MAXs? If so, why did they dedicate so many MAXs to the Hawaii routes? Do they need the extra range over the 737-800 or is it just to simplify operations there?
 
orlandocfi
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:53 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:02 pm

planecane wrote:
Are all of the Hawaii flights MAXs? If so, why did they dedicate so many MAXs to the Hawaii routes? Do they need the extra range over the 737-800 or is it just to simplify operations there?

SWA operates the -800 and and Max to Hawaii. The Max is not very different from the NG so there is no operational advantage to operating one or the other. I think we will see, though, that the Max7/8 will be doing most of the Hawaii stuff as more enter the fleet.
 
Chemist
Posts: 933
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:34 pm

Hawaii is a long stage length, so the Max would provide the greatest fuel savings, no?
Is the relative advantage of MAX fuel savings greater on shorter or longer flights?
 
GoAroundAgain
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:00 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:54 pm

Chemist wrote:
Hawaii is a long stage length, so the Max would provide the greatest fuel savings, no?
Is the relative advantage of MAX fuel savings greater on shorter or longer flights?

[threeid][/threeid]

That's my uneducated takeaway from the use of MAX aircraft on the longer stage length Hawaii flights. The fuel savings of having to put less fuel on board for the flight bc of reduced fuel burn. A few other bonuses maybe a little buffer on headwinds not worrying about bumping pax for fuel, and landing in Hawaii with a little more fuel on board as I'm just guessing the price of fuel in Hawaii is more expensive? than CA
 
User avatar
barney captain
Posts: 2444
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:41 pm

planecane wrote:
Are all of the Hawaii flights MAXs? If so, why did they dedicate so many MAXs to the Hawaii routes? Do they need the extra range over the 737-800 or is it just to simplify operations there?



On average, the Max burns 5000lbs less fuel per crossing than the NG. That is a very strong motivator.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:55 pm

Idk if anyone saw but WN is listed to attendant world routes In Italy in October. Are they going to potentially talk to some airlines about a Europe codeshare maybe ?
 
737MAX7
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:55 am

WNagent310 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/southwest-urges-employees-to-take-extra-shifts-over-july-4-to-avoid-flight-disruptions.html

Double time pay.

Outside looking in talking with several different friends in several different departments.

Most everyone is at the breaking point across the board.
WN system is in jeopardy of a massive meltdown from lack of staffing from the results of HDQ over stuffing the flight schedules. The last week even into today has seen huge weather related thunderstorms events causing a out of balance in the system. Unlike pre Covid conditions they now lack the staffing levels to recover.
Last week into this week it's been a pointing finger blame game using threating emergency sick call towards several work groups.
July they double down on extra flights due to demand so now there trying the Let's throw double time at everyone to fill the void.
You know the moral is at a all time low when the Pilots quickly came out and SAID NO! You creators mess HDQ you fix it.

Also add not even a year ago under the daily stresses of Covid they sent out Furlough Warn notifications along with the push for 10% pay cuts. All this while Turning down government loans because it would have prevented lucrative stock buybacks for the shareholders and BOD.

Everyone is spent, tired and trying to just get back to a normal home life with family and friends after covid.
The Daily Mandatory overtime or extra flying has everyone saying F it.
Herbs Era it was what ever it takes because Herbs WN took care of its people so they in return took care of WN with the all hands on deck mentalities.

GK legacy been make Wall Street happy first. Causing everyone to feel like a number and only care about the 5th and the 20th.

Hopefully They see the writing on the wall and peddle backwards to repair what they can.

I honestly think July and Aug are going to limp on through with horrible OTP.

Coming into this summer they had a working schedule until they got greedy by adding to much additional flying.

Prayers for my WN peeps.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy


LAX ramp here, it’s sure been a crazy couple weeks. I’m on my first 2 day weekend in over a month & a half. Our station offered a month ETO for June which severely hampered our local operation and thus we became severely understaffed. Network Planning added too many flights in the middle of our bid so our start times are not in sync with the flight schedule we’ve been running this past month. PM agents across the board are getting mando’d 3-4 hours every night after their shift. First day off Mandatory OT has been going on all month long. At least 10-15 lines of OT needing to be filled every day. Finally had 2 days off all because I had to refuse the mando to get some rest. My body has been in “work mode” for so long I didn’t realize I’ve overworked my body. This past 48 hours has just been catching up on errands I haven’t done in weeks and complete exhaustion now that my body is becoming more relaxed it’s also flaring up all the pain & soreness that I’ve been working through.

It’s not just us. The whole system is chronically understaffed. DEN, PHX, HNL, OGG, MDW, ORD, CHS, SLC, AUS are the headline stations that are classified as “understaffed” at least on the Ramp/Ops side.

SAN is sending agents to PHX & HNL. SJC is sending agents to HNL. LAX is sending agents to PHX. To help alleviate the chronically understaffed stations temporarily.

Prayers out to all my WN Co-Hearts going through it on the frontline. Pilots, FA’s, Ramp, Ops, CSA’s, CSS’s, Cargo, etc… are all understaffed and will have any relief in sight for at least another couple weeks.

It’s been pretty darn bad at BNA as well. Guys getting popped 12 days in a row for mando, 25-30 lines of OT every day. Headquarters just sent out a notice that they are extending the double time pay for all OT worked until July 18th, which they should. This was their mess they created. Like other stations across the country we are understaffed as well. I feel for the stations that are even worse than us right now.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2495
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:05 pm

737MAX7 wrote:
WNagent310 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Outside looking in talking with several different friends in several different departments.

Most everyone is at the breaking point across the board.
WN system is in jeopardy of a massive meltdown from lack of staffing from the results of HDQ over stuffing the flight schedules. The last week even into today has seen huge weather related thunderstorms events causing a out of balance in the system. Unlike pre Covid conditions they now lack the staffing levels to recover.
Last week into this week it's been a pointing finger blame game using threating emergency sick call towards several work groups.
July they double down on extra flights due to demand so now there trying the Let's throw double time at everyone to fill the void.
You know the moral is at a all time low when the Pilots quickly came out and SAID NO! You creators mess HDQ you fix it.

Also add not even a year ago under the daily stresses of Covid they sent out Furlough Warn notifications along with the push for 10% pay cuts. All this while Turning down government loans because it would have prevented lucrative stock buybacks for the shareholders and BOD.

Everyone is spent, tired and trying to just get back to a normal home life with family and friends after covid.
The Daily Mandatory overtime or extra flying has everyone saying F it.
Herbs Era it was what ever it takes because Herbs WN took care of its people so they in return took care of WN with the all hands on deck mentalities.

GK legacy been make Wall Street happy first. Causing everyone to feel like a number and only care about the 5th and the 20th.

Hopefully They see the writing on the wall and peddle backwards to repair what they can.

I honestly think July and Aug are going to limp on through with horrible OTP.

Coming into this summer they had a working schedule until they got greedy by adding to much additional flying.

Prayers for my WN peeps.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy


LAX ramp here, it’s sure been a crazy couple weeks. I’m on my first 2 day weekend in over a month & a half. Our station offered a month ETO for June which severely hampered our local operation and thus we became severely understaffed. Network Planning added too many flights in the middle of our bid so our start times are not in sync with the flight schedule we’ve been running this past month. PM agents across the board are getting mando’d 3-4 hours every night after their shift. First day off Mandatory OT has been going on all month long. At least 10-15 lines of OT needing to be filled every day. Finally had 2 days off all because I had to refuse the mando to get some rest. My body has been in “work mode” for so long I didn’t realize I’ve overworked my body. This past 48 hours has just been catching up on errands I haven’t done in weeks and complete exhaustion now that my body is becoming more relaxed it’s also flaring up all the pain & soreness that I’ve been working through.

It’s not just us. The whole system is chronically understaffed. DEN, PHX, HNL, OGG, MDW, ORD, CHS, SLC, AUS are the headline stations that are classified as “understaffed” at least on the Ramp/Ops side.

SAN is sending agents to PHX & HNL. SJC is sending agents to HNL. LAX is sending agents to PHX. To help alleviate the chronically understaffed stations temporarily.

Prayers out to all my WN Co-Hearts going through it on the frontline. Pilots, FA’s, Ramp, Ops, CSA’s, CSS’s, Cargo, etc… are all understaffed and will have any relief in sight for at least another couple weeks.

It’s been pretty darn bad at BNA as well. Guys getting popped 12 days in a row for mando, 25-30 lines of OT every day. Headquarters just sent out a notice that they are extending the double time pay for all OT worked until July 18th, which they should. This was their mess they created. Like other stations across the country we are understaffed as well. I feel for the stations that are even worse than us right now.


The DT for picking up extra shifts or trips is a SLAP in the face for everyone else that’s working there normal shifts or Trips. While the company sees this as saving its operations from a meltdown it’s KILLING the culture making the already spent work force feel unappreciated. I showed up ontime to work my scheduled assignment and got ZERO for all the extra work load that HDQ created.
Once the ESCP is lifted guess who calls in sick because they had enough? The Employees that works there schedules and got ZERO. They end up feeling like F if your only rewarding everyone for picking up extra work the mess you created HDQ because you failed to staff the operations properly why should I show up then? So they ultimately say Screw WN I’m taking a paid Sickcation and you can pay someone else to do my job.
Then the company has to again do another ESCP and the vicious cycle continues.

All the BBQ and Pizza Parties will not fix the morale this situation has caused. Or will 50,000 RR points that actually cost the employees there own money in taxes.
WN needs to give everyone something that’s actually FREE Showing them they are truly appreciated. And No a cheap coffee tumbler isn’t that answer when they know all the leaders will be reaping huge stock sales in the future.

WN needs quickly reflect on the last 50yrs on what made it successful in the employee morale departments because it’s shooting to the top of legacy morale.

That’s my view.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:38 pm

737MAX7 wrote:
WNagent310 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Outside looking in talking with several different friends in several different departments.

Most everyone is at the breaking point across the board.
WN system is in jeopardy of a massive meltdown from lack of staffing from the results of HDQ over stuffing the flight schedules. The last week even into today has seen huge weather related thunderstorms events causing a out of balance in the system. Unlike pre Covid conditions they now lack the staffing levels to recover.
Last week into this week it's been a pointing finger blame game using threating emergency sick call towards several work groups.
July they double down on extra flights due to demand so now there trying the Let's throw double time at everyone to fill the void.
You know the moral is at a all time low when the Pilots quickly came out and SAID NO! You creators mess HDQ you fix it.

Also add not even a year ago under the daily stresses of Covid they sent out Furlough Warn notifications along with the push for 10% pay cuts. All this while Turning down government loans because it would have prevented lucrative stock buybacks for the shareholders and BOD.

Everyone is spent, tired and trying to just get back to a normal home life with family and friends after covid.
The Daily Mandatory overtime or extra flying has everyone saying F it.
Herbs Era it was what ever it takes because Herbs WN took care of its people so they in return took care of WN with the all hands on deck mentalities.

GK legacy been make Wall Street happy first. Causing everyone to feel like a number and only care about the 5th and the 20th.

Hopefully They see the writing on the wall and peddle backwards to repair what they can.

I honestly think July and Aug are going to limp on through with horrible OTP.

Coming into this summer they had a working schedule until they got greedy by adding to much additional flying.

Prayers for my WN peeps.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy


LAX ramp here, it’s sure been a crazy couple weeks. I’m on my first 2 day weekend in over a month & a half. Our station offered a month ETO for June which severely hampered our local operation and thus we became severely understaffed. Network Planning added too many flights in the middle of our bid so our start times are not in sync with the flight schedule we’ve been running this past month. PM agents across the board are getting mando’d 3-4 hours every night after their shift. First day off Mandatory OT has been going on all month long. At least 10-15 lines of OT needing to be filled every day. Finally had 2 days off all because I had to refuse the mando to get some rest. My body has been in “work mode” for so long I didn’t realize I’ve overworked my body. This past 48 hours has just been catching up on errands I haven’t done in weeks and complete exhaustion now that my body is becoming more relaxed it’s also flaring up all the pain & soreness that I’ve been working through.

It’s not just us. The whole system is chronically understaffed. DEN, PHX, HNL, OGG, MDW, ORD, CHS, SLC, AUS are the headline stations that are classified as “understaffed” at least on the Ramp/Ops side.

SAN is sending agents to PHX & HNL. SJC is sending agents to HNL. LAX is sending agents to PHX. To help alleviate the chronically understaffed stations temporarily.

Prayers out to all my WN Co-Hearts going through it on the frontline. Pilots, FA’s, Ramp, Ops, CSA’s, CSS’s, Cargo, etc… are all understaffed and will have any relief in sight for at least another couple weeks.

It’s been pretty darn bad at BNA as well. Guys getting popped 12 days in a row for mando, 25-30 lines of OT every day. Headquarters just sent out a notice that they are extending the double time pay for all OT worked until July 18th, which they should. This was their mess they created. Like other stations across the country we are understaffed as well. I feel for the stations that are even worse than us right now.


They are extending double time for Flight Attendants through the 18/19th as well.
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:59 pm

WNagent310 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/southwest-urges-employees-to-take-extra-shifts-over-july-4-to-avoid-flight-disruptions.html

Double time pay.

Outside looking in talking with several different friends in several different departments.

Most everyone is at the breaking point across the board.
WN system is in jeopardy of a massive meltdown from lack of staffing from the results of HDQ over stuffing the flight schedules. The last week even into today has seen huge weather related thunderstorms events causing a out of balance in the system. Unlike pre Covid conditions they now lack the staffing levels to recover.
Last week into this week it's been a pointing finger blame game using threating emergency sick call towards several work groups.
July they double down on extra flights due to demand so now there trying the Let's throw double time at everyone to fill the void.
You know the moral is at a all time low when the Pilots quickly came out and SAID NO! You creators mess HDQ you fix it.

Also add not even a year ago under the daily stresses of Covid they sent out Furlough Warn notifications along with the push for 10% pay cuts. All this while Turning down government loans because it would have prevented lucrative stock buybacks for the shareholders and BOD.

Everyone is spent, tired and trying to just get back to a normal home life with family and friends after covid.
The Daily Mandatory overtime or extra flying has everyone saying F it.
Herbs Era it was what ever it takes because Herbs WN took care of its people so they in return took care of WN with the all hands on deck mentalities.

GK legacy been make Wall Street happy first. Causing everyone to feel like a number and only care about the 5th and the 20th.

Hopefully They see the writing on the wall and peddle backwards to repair what they can.

I honestly think July and Aug are going to limp on through with horrible OTP.

Coming into this summer they had a working schedule until they got greedy by adding to much additional flying.

Prayers for my WN peeps.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy


LAX ramp here, it’s sure been a crazy couple weeks. I’m on my first 2 day weekend in over a month & a half. Our station offered a month ETO for June which severely hampered our local operation and thus we became severely understaffed. Network Planning added too many flights in the middle of our bid so our start times are not in sync with the flight schedule we’ve been running this past month. PM agents across the board are getting mando’d 3-4 hours every night after their shift. First day off Mandatory OT has been going on all month long. At least 10-15 lines of OT needing to be filled every day. Finally had 2 days off all because I had to refuse the mando to get some rest. My body has been in “work mode” for so long I didn’t realize I’ve overworked my body. This past 48 hours has just been catching up on errands I haven’t done in weeks and complete exhaustion now that my body is becoming more relaxed it’s also flaring up all the pain & soreness that I’ve been working through.

It’s not just us. The whole system is chronically understaffed. DEN, PHX, HNL, OGG, MDW, ORD, CHS, SLC, AUS are the headline stations that are classified as “understaffed” at least on the Ramp/Ops side.

SAN is sending agents to PHX & HNL. SJC is sending agents to HNL. LAX is sending agents to PHX. To help alleviate the chronically understaffed stations temporarily.

Prayers out to all my WN Co-Hearts going through it on the frontline. Pilots, FA’s, Ramp, Ops, CSA’s, CSS’s, Cargo, etc… are all understaffed and will have any relief in sight for at least another couple weeks.



Yet, Management made more than the years prior even with its pay cut to "save" the company. Since GK runs the board, why wouldn't they all make money. Mistakes made my management are now costing employees and their families quality of life. Commuters are being deplaned due to the ongoing weight/balance issues, so not only are they unable to get to work, but now they can't get home.
 
Western727
Posts: 2004
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:38 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
WNagent310 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Outside looking in talking with several different friends in several different departments.

Most everyone is at the breaking point across the board.
WN system is in jeopardy of a massive meltdown from lack of staffing from the results of HDQ over stuffing the flight schedules. The last week even into today has seen huge weather related thunderstorms events causing a out of balance in the system. Unlike pre Covid conditions they now lack the staffing levels to recover.
Last week into this week it's been a pointing finger blame game using threating emergency sick call towards several work groups.
July they double down on extra flights due to demand so now there trying the Let's throw double time at everyone to fill the void.
You know the moral is at a all time low when the Pilots quickly came out and SAID NO! You creators mess HDQ you fix it.

Also add not even a year ago under the daily stresses of Covid they sent out Furlough Warn notifications along with the push for 10% pay cuts. All this while Turning down government loans because it would have prevented lucrative stock buybacks for the shareholders and BOD.

Everyone is spent, tired and trying to just get back to a normal home life with family and friends after covid.
The Daily Mandatory overtime or extra flying has everyone saying F it.
Herbs Era it was what ever it takes because Herbs WN took care of its people so they in return took care of WN with the all hands on deck mentalities.

GK legacy been make Wall Street happy first. Causing everyone to feel like a number and only care about the 5th and the 20th.

Hopefully They see the writing on the wall and peddle backwards to repair what they can.

I honestly think July and Aug are going to limp on through with horrible OTP.

Coming into this summer they had a working schedule until they got greedy by adding to much additional flying.

Prayers for my WN peeps.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy


LAX ramp here, it’s sure been a crazy couple weeks. I’m on my first 2 day weekend in over a month & a half. Our station offered a month ETO for June which severely hampered our local operation and thus we became severely understaffed. Network Planning added too many flights in the middle of our bid so our start times are not in sync with the flight schedule we’ve been running this past month. PM agents across the board are getting mando’d 3-4 hours every night after their shift. First day off Mandatory OT has been going on all month long. At least 10-15 lines of OT needing to be filled every day. Finally had 2 days off all because I had to refuse the mando to get some rest. My body has been in “work mode” for so long I didn’t realize I’ve overworked my body. This past 48 hours has just been catching up on errands I haven’t done in weeks and complete exhaustion now that my body is becoming more relaxed it’s also flaring up all the pain & soreness that I’ve been working through.

It’s not just us. The whole system is chronically understaffed. DEN, PHX, HNL, OGG, MDW, ORD, CHS, SLC, AUS are the headline stations that are classified as “understaffed” at least on the Ramp/Ops side.

SAN is sending agents to PHX & HNL. SJC is sending agents to HNL. LAX is sending agents to PHX. To help alleviate the chronically understaffed stations temporarily.

Prayers out to all my WN Co-Hearts going through it on the frontline. Pilots, FA’s, Ramp, Ops, CSA’s, CSS’s, Cargo, etc… are all understaffed and will have any relief in sight for at least another couple weeks.



Yet, Management made more than the years prior even with its pay cut to "save" the company. Since GK runs the board, why wouldn't they all make money. Mistakes made my management are now costing employees and their families quality of life. Commuters are being deplaned due to the ongoing weight/balance issues, so not only are they unable to get to work, but now they can't get home.


Ugh. I'm flying on WN in 6 days so I'll be sure to thank each employee I come in contact with. Too bad I can't do the same for the folks on the ramp.
Jack @ AUS
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:42 pm

Western727 wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
WNagent310 wrote:

LAX ramp here, it’s sure been a crazy couple weeks. I’m on my first 2 day weekend in over a month & a half. Our station offered a month ETO for June which severely hampered our local operation and thus we became severely understaffed. Network Planning added too many flights in the middle of our bid so our start times are not in sync with the flight schedule we’ve been running this past month. PM agents across the board are getting mando’d 3-4 hours every night after their shift. First day off Mandatory OT has been going on all month long. At least 10-15 lines of OT needing to be filled every day. Finally had 2 days off all because I had to refuse the mando to get some rest. My body has been in “work mode” for so long I didn’t realize I’ve overworked my body. This past 48 hours has just been catching up on errands I haven’t done in weeks and complete exhaustion now that my body is becoming more relaxed it’s also flaring up all the pain & soreness that I’ve been working through.

It’s not just us. The whole system is chronically understaffed. DEN, PHX, HNL, OGG, MDW, ORD, CHS, SLC, AUS are the headline stations that are classified as “understaffed” at least on the Ramp/Ops side.

SAN is sending agents to PHX & HNL. SJC is sending agents to HNL. LAX is sending agents to PHX. To help alleviate the chronically understaffed stations temporarily.

Prayers out to all my WN Co-Hearts going through it on the frontline. Pilots, FA’s, Ramp, Ops, CSA’s, CSS’s, Cargo, etc… are all understaffed and will have any relief in sight for at least another couple weeks.



Yet, Management made more than the years prior even with its pay cut to "save" the company. Since GK runs the board, why wouldn't they all make money. Mistakes made my management are now costing employees and their families quality of life. Commuters are being deplaned due to the ongoing weight/balance issues, so not only are they unable to get to work, but now they can't get home.


Ugh. I'm flying on WN in 6 days so I'll be sure to thank each employee I come in contact with. Too bad I can't do the same for the folks on the ramp.



Please do. Thank you.
 
737MAX7
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:20 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
WNagent310 wrote:

LAX ramp here, it’s sure been a crazy couple weeks. I’m on my first 2 day weekend in over a month & a half. Our station offered a month ETO for June which severely hampered our local operation and thus we became severely understaffed. Network Planning added too many flights in the middle of our bid so our start times are not in sync with the flight schedule we’ve been running this past month. PM agents across the board are getting mando’d 3-4 hours every night after their shift. First day off Mandatory OT has been going on all month long. At least 10-15 lines of OT needing to be filled every day. Finally had 2 days off all because I had to refuse the mando to get some rest. My body has been in “work mode” for so long I didn’t realize I’ve overworked my body. This past 48 hours has just been catching up on errands I haven’t done in weeks and complete exhaustion now that my body is becoming more relaxed it’s also flaring up all the pain & soreness that I’ve been working through.

It’s not just us. The whole system is chronically understaffed. DEN, PHX, HNL, OGG, MDW, ORD, CHS, SLC, AUS are the headline stations that are classified as “understaffed” at least on the Ramp/Ops side.

SAN is sending agents to PHX & HNL. SJC is sending agents to HNL. LAX is sending agents to PHX. To help alleviate the chronically understaffed stations temporarily.

Prayers out to all my WN Co-Hearts going through it on the frontline. Pilots, FA’s, Ramp, Ops, CSA’s, CSS’s, Cargo, etc… are all understaffed and will have any relief in sight for at least another couple weeks.

It’s been pretty darn bad at BNA as well. Guys getting popped 12 days in a row for mando, 25-30 lines of OT every day. Headquarters just sent out a notice that they are extending the double time pay for all OT worked until July 18th, which they should. This was their mess they created. Like other stations across the country we are understaffed as well. I feel for the stations that are even worse than us right now.


The DT for picking up extra shifts or trips is a SLAP in the face for everyone else that’s working there normal shifts or Trips. While the company sees this as saving its operations from a meltdown it’s KILLING the culture making the already spent work force feel unappreciated. I showed up ontime to work my scheduled assignment and got ZERO for all the extra work load that HDQ created.
Once the ESCP is lifted guess who calls in sick because they had enough? The Employees that works there schedules and got ZERO. They end up feeling like F if your only rewarding everyone for picking up extra work the mess you created HDQ because you failed to staff the operations properly why should I show up then? So they ultimately say Screw WN I’m taking a paid Sickcation and you can pay someone else to do my job.
Then the company has to again do another ESCP and the vicious cycle continues.

All the BBQ and Pizza Parties will not fix the morale this situation has caused. Or will 50,000 RR points that actually cost the employees there own money in taxes.
WN needs to give everyone something that’s actually FREE Showing them they are truly appreciated. And No a cheap coffee tumbler isn’t that answer when they know all the leaders will be reaping huge stock sales in the future.

WN needs quickly reflect on the last 50yrs on what made it successful in the employee morale departments because it’s shooting to the top of legacy morale.

That’s my view.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy

You’re going to be waiting a while for that appreciation unfortunately. I’d love to say a lot more but HDQ’s is monitoring this place among others. It’s not going to get better anytime soon.
 
User avatar
Boiler905
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:05 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:29 pm

SANFan wrote:
The way I see it, in another year or two, WN's overview of their business model completely changes (a la Jordon) and they suck up Breeze -- instant access to smaller, thinner routes and a pot full of small planes to serve them. And it doesn't empty WN's savings account!

This is the NEWER Southwest on the way folks.

bb


I think Bob Jordan will revamp the ops side more than the commercial.

Here's a thought, WN could remove the ops agent role at every gate and merge the responsibility in with the other gate agents/customer service agents.

WN should begin "converting" these stations stretched too thin one-by-one. Everyone keeps their pay levels but switch to below wing or elsewhere where there is a need.

Oh wait, unions...
Boiler Up
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:31 pm

Boiler905 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
The way I see it, in another year or two, WN's overview of their business model completely changes (a la Jordon) and they suck up Breeze -- instant access to smaller, thinner routes and a pot full of small planes to serve them. And it doesn't empty WN's savings account!

This is the NEWER Southwest on the way folks.

bb


I think Bob Jordan will revamp the ops side more than the commercial.

Here's a thought, WN could remove the ops agent role at every gate and merge the responsibility in with the other gate agents/customer service agents.

WN should begin "converting" these stations stretched too thin one-by-one. Everyone keeps their pay levels but switch to below wing or elsewhere where there is a need.

Oh wait, unions...


Management has wanted this for years and I strongly believe it will happen sooner rather than later.
 
Shakinthefat
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 6:56 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:49 am

wnflyguy wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
WNagent310 wrote:

All the BBQ and Pizza Parties will not fix the morale this situation has caused. Or will 50,000 RR points that actually cost the employees there own money in taxes.
WN needs to give everyone something that’s actually FREE Showing them they are truly appreciated. And No a cheap coffee tumbler isn’t that answer when they know all the leaders will be reaping huge stock sales in the future.

WN needs quickly reflect on the last 50yrs on what made it successful in the employee morale departments because it’s shooting to the top of legacy morale.

That’s my view.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy


Maybe a cool leather Flight jacket and a 50yr anniversary tumbler.
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:09 am

737MAX7 wrote:
WNagent310 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Outside looking in talking with several different friends in several different departments.

Most everyone is at the breaking point across the board.
WN system is in jeopardy of a massive meltdown from lack of staffing from the results of HDQ over stuffing the flight schedules. The last week even into today has seen huge weather related thunderstorms events causing a out of balance in the system. Unlike pre Covid conditions they now lack the staffing levels to recover.
Last week into this week it's been a pointing finger blame game using threating emergency sick call towards several work groups.
July they double down on extra flights due to demand so now there trying the Let's throw double time at everyone to fill the void.
You know the moral is at a all time low when the Pilots quickly came out and SAID NO! You creators mess HDQ you fix it.

Also add not even a year ago under the daily stresses of Covid they sent out Furlough Warn notifications along with the push for 10% pay cuts. All this while Turning down government loans because it would have prevented lucrative stock buybacks for the shareholders and BOD.

Everyone is spent, tired and trying to just get back to a normal home life with family and friends after covid.
The Daily Mandatory overtime or extra flying has everyone saying F it.
Herbs Era it was what ever it takes because Herbs WN took care of its people so they in return took care of WN with the all hands on deck mentalities.

GK legacy been make Wall Street happy first. Causing everyone to feel like a number and only care about the 5th and the 20th.

Hopefully They see the writing on the wall and peddle backwards to repair what they can.

I honestly think July and Aug are going to limp on through with horrible OTP.

Coming into this summer they had a working schedule until they got greedy by adding to much additional flying.

Prayers for my WN peeps.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy


LAX ramp here, it’s sure been a crazy couple weeks. I’m on my first 2 day weekend in over a month & a half. Our station offered a month ETO for June which severely hampered our local operation and thus we became severely understaffed. Network Planning added too many flights in the middle of our bid so our start times are not in sync with the flight schedule we’ve been running this past month. PM agents across the board are getting mando’d 3-4 hours every night after their shift. First day off Mandatory OT has been going on all month long. At least 10-15 lines of OT needing to be filled every day. Finally had 2 days off all because I had to refuse the mando to get some rest. My body has been in “work mode” for so long I didn’t realize I’ve overworked my body. This past 48 hours has just been catching up on errands I haven’t done in weeks and complete exhaustion now that my body is becoming more relaxed it’s also flaring up all the pain & soreness that I’ve been working through.

It’s not just us. The whole system is chronically understaffed. DEN, PHX, HNL, OGG, MDW, ORD, CHS, SLC, AUS are the headline stations that are classified as “understaffed” at least on the Ramp/Ops side.

SAN is sending agents to PHX & HNL. SJC is sending agents to HNL. LAX is sending agents to PHX. To help alleviate the chronically understaffed stations temporarily.

Prayers out to all my WN Co-Hearts going through it on the frontline. Pilots, FA’s, Ramp, Ops, CSA’s, CSS’s, Cargo, etc… are all understaffed and will have any relief in sight for at least another couple weeks.

It’s been pretty darn bad at BNA as well. Guys getting popped 12 days in a row for mando, 25-30 lines of OT every day. Headquarters just sent out a notice that they are extending the double time pay for all OT worked until July 18th, which they should. This was their mess they created. Like other stations across the country we are understaffed as well. I feel for the stations that are even worse than us right now.


A post like this used to be against WN social media policy… proceed with caution if you are employed by WN. Those that I know that still work there say that people are being let go left and right for social media policy violations.
 
travaz
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:40 am

OK that will sure help out with the short staff!
 
Wneast
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:44 am

Anyone think we get more routes in the next couple weeks or with them being short staff.. we liked it see more winter time flying tell September
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4449
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:59 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
WNagent310 wrote:

LAX ramp here, it’s sure been a crazy couple weeks. I’m on my first 2 day weekend in over a month & a half. Our station offered a month ETO for June which severely hampered our local operation and thus we became severely understaffed. Network Planning added too many flights in the middle of our bid so our start times are not in sync with the flight schedule we’ve been running this past month. PM agents across the board are getting mando’d 3-4 hours every night after their shift. First day off Mandatory OT has been going on all month long. At least 10-15 lines of OT needing to be filled every day. Finally had 2 days off all because I had to refuse the mando to get some rest. My body has been in “work mode” for so long I didn’t realize I’ve overworked my body. This past 48 hours has just been catching up on errands I haven’t done in weeks and complete exhaustion now that my body is becoming more relaxed it’s also flaring up all the pain & soreness that I’ve been working through.

It’s not just us. The whole system is chronically understaffed. DEN, PHX, HNL, OGG, MDW, ORD, CHS, SLC, AUS are the headline stations that are classified as “understaffed” at least on the Ramp/Ops side.

SAN is sending agents to PHX & HNL. SJC is sending agents to HNL. LAX is sending agents to PHX. To help alleviate the chronically understaffed stations temporarily.

Prayers out to all my WN Co-Hearts going through it on the frontline. Pilots, FA’s, Ramp, Ops, CSA’s, CSS’s, Cargo, etc… are all understaffed and will have any relief in sight for at least another couple weeks.

It’s been pretty darn bad at BNA as well. Guys getting popped 12 days in a row for mando, 25-30 lines of OT every day. Headquarters just sent out a notice that they are extending the double time pay for all OT worked until July 18th, which they should. This was their mess they created. Like other stations across the country we are understaffed as well. I feel for the stations that are even worse than us right now.


A post like this used to be against WN social media policy… proceed with caution if you are employed by WN. Those that I know that still work there say that people are being let go left and right for social media policy violations.


Seems counter productive to be canning people when they are short staffed.
 
allegiantflyer
Posts: 377
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:11 am

Why doesn't WN just open the hiring pool to external applicants? We keep hearing this story of stations being understaffed yet it seems like they have no intention of resolving the issue. Im shocked theres no intention to post openings.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:52 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
WNagent310 wrote:

LAX ramp here, it’s sure been a crazy couple weeks. I’m on my first 2 day weekend in over a month & a half. Our station offered a month ETO for June which severely hampered our local operation and thus we became severely understaffed. Network Planning added too many flights in the middle of our bid so our start times are not in sync with the flight schedule we’ve been running this past month. PM agents across the board are getting mando’d 3-4 hours every night after their shift. First day off Mandatory OT has been going on all month long. At least 10-15 lines of OT needing to be filled every day. Finally had 2 days off all because I had to refuse the mando to get some rest. My body has been in “work mode” for so long I didn’t realize I’ve overworked my body. This past 48 hours has just been catching up on errands I haven’t done in weeks and complete exhaustion now that my body is becoming more relaxed it’s also flaring up all the pain & soreness that I’ve been working through.

It’s not just us. The whole system is chronically understaffed. DEN, PHX, HNL, OGG, MDW, ORD, CHS, SLC, AUS are the headline stations that are classified as “understaffed” at least on the Ramp/Ops side.

SAN is sending agents to PHX & HNL. SJC is sending agents to HNL. LAX is sending agents to PHX. To help alleviate the chronically understaffed stations temporarily.

Prayers out to all my WN Co-Hearts going through it on the frontline. Pilots, FA’s, Ramp, Ops, CSA’s, CSS’s, Cargo, etc… are all understaffed and will have any relief in sight for at least another couple weeks.

It’s been pretty darn bad at BNA as well. Guys getting popped 12 days in a row for mando, 25-30 lines of OT every day. Headquarters just sent out a notice that they are extending the double time pay for all OT worked until July 18th, which they should. This was their mess they created. Like other stations across the country we are understaffed as well. I feel for the stations that are even worse than us right now.


A post like this used to be against WN social media policy… proceed with caution if you are employed by WN. Those that I know that still work there say that people are being let go left and right for social media policy violations.

They used to have in their tag line that they were retired
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
737MAX7
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:00 pm

allegiantflyer wrote:
Why doesn't WN just open the hiring pool to external applicants? We keep hearing this story of stations being understaffed yet it seems like they have no intention of resolving the issue. Im shocked theres no intention to post openings.

They have, the problem is it takes roughly 2-3 months to complete the hiring process. You apply, they narrow down the applicants, find the ones they want to phone interview, do the phone interview, narrow down some more, set up face to face interviews, narrow down more, drug test, background check and then SIDA badging. And this doesn’t even take into account new hire training which usually consists of 8-10 shifts with a trainer, then the week long new hire training before coming back and then waiting to be signed off.
 
737max8
Posts: 730
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:51 pm

allegiantflyer wrote:
Why doesn't WN just open the hiring pool to external applicants? We keep hearing this story of stations being understaffed yet it seems like they have no intention of resolving the issue. Im shocked theres no intention to post openings.


There are and have been new external job postings on Southwest's website every week, what are you talking about?

Last week there were postings for Chicago, this week looks like postings for Florida and California.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3833
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:27 pm

SANFan wrote:
The way I see it, in another year or two, WN's overview of their business model completely changes (a la Jordon) and they suck up Breeze -- instant access to smaller, thinner routes and a pot full of small planes to serve them. And it doesn't empty WN's savings account!

This is the NEWER Southwest on the way folks.

bb



Breeze is using the E190 short term. They are planned to be all A220-300. To close in size to the -7 for Southwest to bother keeping 2nd crew trained.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7496
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:54 pm

SANFan wrote:
The way I see it, in another year or two, WN's overview of their business model completely changes (a la Jordon) and they suck up Breeze -- instant access to smaller, thinner routes and a pot full of small planes to serve them. And it doesn't empty WN's savings account!


Breeze doesn't move the needle enough for WN to bother with the integration, different fleet type, etc. A fleet of 9 aircraft is what WN will take from Boeing in an average month in 2022 (104 orders). Nothing inherently keeps WN from entering thinner markets like what Breeze is serving, apart from suitability of fleet and better perceived opportunities elsewhere.

AirTran brought a number of valuable assets -- DCA & LGA slots, ~20 gates at ATL, dozens of 73Gs, international network expertise, trained staff, etc. The only target right now which would be comparable is B6 -- with large operations in constrained airports in NYC & Boston.
 
Vctony
Posts: 715
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 1999 10:51 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:41 pm

ScottB wrote:
SANFan wrote:
The way I see it, in another year or two, WN's overview of their business model completely changes (a la Jordon) and they suck up Breeze -- instant access to smaller, thinner routes and a pot full of small planes to serve them. And it doesn't empty WN's savings account!


Breeze doesn't move the needle enough for WN to bother with the integration, different fleet type, etc. A fleet of 9 aircraft is what WN will take from Boeing in an average month in 2022 (104 orders). Nothing inherently keeps WN from entering thinner markets like what Breeze is serving, apart from suitability of fleet and better perceived opportunities elsewhere.

AirTran brought a number of valuable assets -- DCA & LGA slots, ~20 gates at ATL, dozens of 73Gs, international network expertise, trained staff, etc. The only target right now which would be comparable is B6 -- with large operations in constrained airports in NYC & Boston.


B6 would be a total gut job. Eliminating Mint, assigned seating, Extra Space, etc. would play horribly in NYC and BOS (and WN's footprint would shrink there). Sure they might be competitive against F9 and NK but you'd see WN come in and eventually blead B6's market share to AA, DL, UA unless they tried to offer something other than the bread and butter WN product.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2495
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:10 am

Vctony wrote:
ScottB wrote:
SANFan wrote:
The way I see it, in another year or two, WN's overview of their business model completely changes (a la Jordon) and they suck up Breeze -- instant access to smaller, thinner routes and a pot full of small planes to serve them. And it doesn't empty WN's savings account!


Breeze doesn't move the needle enough for WN to bother with the integration, different fleet type, etc. A fleet of 9 aircraft is what WN will take from Boeing in an average month in 2022 (104 orders). Nothing inherently keeps WN from entering thinner markets like what Breeze is serving, apart from suitability of fleet and better perceived opportunities elsewhere.

AirTran brought a number of valuable assets -- DCA & LGA slots, ~20 gates at ATL, dozens of 73Gs, international network expertise, trained staff, etc. The only target right now which would be comparable is B6 -- with large operations in constrained airports in NYC & Boston.


B6 would be a total gut job. Eliminating Mint, assigned seating, Extra Space, etc. would play horribly in NYC and BOS (and WN's footprint would shrink there). Sure they might be competitive against F9 and NK but you'd see WN come in and eventually blead B6's market share to AA, DL, UA unless they tried to offer something other than the bread and butter WN product.


JFK and BOS catchments would add a Huge value to WN network especially since there chasing the corporate business market.
The transcontinental flights would definitely take a Hit them doubling down on connecting it’s dots to such a lucrative market areas.
JFK would easily become the new BWI eastern powerhouse while BOS would be the BNA northeast step sister.

While I would love WN to Buy B6 with London calling and the mint product that ship has sailed.
Unless AA makes a bid for B6 WN would definitely counter bid.
But my Money is on them taking out Spirit!

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4449
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:37 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Vctony wrote:
ScottB wrote:

Breeze doesn't move the needle enough for WN to bother with the integration, different fleet type, etc. A fleet of 9 aircraft is what WN will take from Boeing in an average month in 2022 (104 orders). Nothing inherently keeps WN from entering thinner markets like what Breeze is serving, apart from suitability of fleet and better perceived opportunities elsewhere.

AirTran brought a number of valuable assets -- DCA & LGA slots, ~20 gates at ATL, dozens of 73Gs, international network expertise, trained staff, etc. The only target right now which would be comparable is B6 -- with large operations in constrained airports in NYC & Boston.


B6 would be a total gut job. Eliminating Mint, assigned seating, Extra Space, etc. would play horribly in NYC and BOS (and WN's footprint would shrink there). Sure they might be competitive against F9 and NK but you'd see WN come in and eventually blead B6's market share to AA, DL, UA unless they tried to offer something other than the bread and butter WN product.


JFK and BOS catchments would add a Huge value to WN network especially since there chasing the corporate business market.
The transcontinental flights would definitely take a Hit them doubling down on connecting it’s dots to such a lucrative market areas.
JFK would easily become the new BWI eastern powerhouse while BOS would be the BNA northeast step sister.

While I would love WN to Buy B6 with London calling and the mint product that ship has sailed.
Unless AA makes a bid for B6 WN would definitely counter bid.
But my Money is on them taking out Spirit!

Flyguy


Except the fact as others mentioned I don’t think the B6 faithful move to WN if they buy them. Some would but I don’t think it would that much. They move to DL or AA. This isn’t BWI or BNA that have WN as the only “hub” airline. BOS/NYC have other options to move loyalty to and still get lots of nonstops.
 
trueblew
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:45 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Vctony wrote:

B6 would be a total gut job. Eliminating Mint, assigned seating, Extra Space, etc. would play horribly in NYC and BOS (and WN's footprint would shrink there). Sure they might be competitive against F9 and NK but you'd see WN come in and eventually blead B6's market share to AA, DL, UA unless they tried to offer something other than the bread and butter WN product.


JFK and BOS catchments would add a Huge value to WN network especially since there chasing the corporate business market.
The transcontinental flights would definitely take a Hit them doubling down on connecting it’s dots to such a lucrative market areas.
JFK would easily become the new BWI eastern powerhouse while BOS would be the BNA northeast step sister.

While I would love WN to Buy B6 with London calling and the mint product that ship has sailed.
Unless AA makes a bid for B6 WN would definitely counter bid.
But my Money is on them taking out Spirit!

Flyguy


Except the fact as others mentioned I don’t think the B6 faithful move to WN if they buy them. Some would but I don’t think it would that much. They move to DL or AA. This isn’t BWI or BNA that have WN as the only “hub” airline. BOS/NYC have other options to move loyalty to and still get lots of nonstops.


Correct. WN's product isn't suitable for New Yorkers. Trading lie-flat seats or free high speed internet in roomy coach seats for cramped, no-frills, cattle call boarding on two to three flights to cross the country? They'll hold their nose and go with AA or DL.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 837
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:55 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
They are extending double time for Flight Attendants through the 18/19th as well.


Funny. At jetblue they are doubling the punitive points for calling out instead. I am hearing that the attrition rates in JFK especially are through the roof this summer, they are losing people left and right due to overwork, underpaid and the new requirement to cover EWR with all the extra time and tolls that involves.

I think these companies taking the stick approach is going to severely backfire on them. With wages increasing around the nation for normal jobs, people are not going to put up with this mess.


trueblew wrote:

Correct. WN's product isn't suitable for New Yorkers. Trading lie-flat seats or free high speed internet in roomy coach seats for cramped, no-frills, cattle call boarding on two to three flights to cross the country? They'll hold their nose and go with AA or DL.


I honestly think if it does happen, WN would keep the B6 product on long haul flights and finally get with the times and evolve. Anything 5 hours or more would be B6. The nasty cattle call spirit-esque style would stay on the short stuff.
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:27 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
They are extending double time for Flight Attendants through the 18/19th as well.


Funny. At jetblue they are doubling the punitive points for calling out instead. I am hearing that the attrition rates in JFK especially are through the roof this summer, they are losing people left and right due to overwork, underpaid and the new requirement to cover EWR with all the extra time and tolls that involves.

I think these companies taking the stick approach is going to severely backfire on them. With wages increasing around the nation for normal jobs, people are not going to put up with this mess.


trueblew wrote:

Correct. WN's product isn't suitable for New Yorkers. Trading lie-flat seats or free high speed internet in roomy coach seats for cramped, no-frills, cattle call boarding on two to three flights to cross the country? They'll hold their nose and go with AA or DL.


I honestly think if it does happen, WN would keep the B6 product on long haul flights and finally get with the times and evolve. Anything 5 hours or more would be B6. The nasty cattle call spirit-esque style would stay on the short stuff.


I agree.
 
User avatar
Boiler905
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:05 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:40 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Vctony wrote:
ScottB wrote:

Breeze doesn't move the needle enough for WN to bother with the integration, different fleet type, etc. A fleet of 9 aircraft is what WN will take from Boeing in an average month in 2022 (104 orders). Nothing inherently keeps WN from entering thinner markets like what Breeze is serving, apart from suitability of fleet and better perceived opportunities elsewhere.

AirTran brought a number of valuable assets -- DCA & LGA slots, ~20 gates at ATL, dozens of 73Gs, international network expertise, trained staff, etc. The only target right now which would be comparable is B6 -- with large operations in constrained airports in NYC & Boston.


B6 would be a total gut job. Eliminating Mint, assigned seating, Extra Space, etc. would play horribly in NYC and BOS (and WN's footprint would shrink there). Sure they might be competitive against F9 and NK but you'd see WN come in and eventually blead B6's market share to AA, DL, UA unless they tried to offer something other than the bread and butter WN product.


JFK and BOS catchments would add a Huge value to WN network especially since there chasing the corporate business market.
The transcontinental flights would definitely take a Hit them doubling down on connecting it’s dots to such a lucrative market areas.
JFK would easily become the new BWI eastern powerhouse while BOS would be the BNA northeast step sister.

While I would love WN to Buy B6 with London calling and the mint product that ship has sailed.
Unless AA makes a bid for B6 WN would definitely counter bid.
But my Money is on them taking out Spirit!

Flyguy


WN will not buy B6, but they will still gain JFK & BOS slots from whoever does B6 because the DOJ will most likely force them to relinquish some assets; even if B6 ends up merging with AS I think they'll still be required to offer opportunities to WN (and/or others) in to JFK & BOS.

If I were a betting person, my money would be on AS buying B6.
Boiler Up
 
ScottB
Posts: 7496
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:14 pm

Vctony wrote:
B6 would be a total gut job. Eliminating Mint, assigned seating, Extra Space, etc. would play horribly in NYC and BOS (and WN's footprint would shrink there). Sure they might be competitive against F9 and NK but you'd see WN come in and eventually blead B6's market share to AA, DL, UA unless they tried to offer something other than the bread and butter WN product.


It absolutely would be a huge change in the product, but the vast majority of customers aren't paying for Mint, assigned seats, extra legroom, etc. It's not clear to me how NYC & BOS are materially different from WAS (including BWI) where WN was the largest carrier pre-Covid by a very healthy margin. And the NYC airports are capacity-constrained; AA/DL/UA could increase gauge in some markets, but it's unlikely they'd be willing to sacrifice yields to go after the majority of B6's passengers. I don't doubt Mint passengers would bolt, but Mint isn't offered in most of B6's markets from NYC or BOS, and B6 doesn't even have a domestic F product in the other markets they serve.

I don't think we'd see WN stick around in the transcon space just because it's really not in their DNA. On the flip side, maybe we would see them roll out a Mint-like product in limited markets (like Hawaii as well) and leverage the knowledge from a future B6 acquisition to expand to Western Europe.

F9/NK/G4 bring nothing to the table for WN apart from eliminating a competitor. None of them bring much in the way of slots or valuable gates, and their fleets aren't any more compatible with WN's all-737 fleet than B6's would be.

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