Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
B6BOSfan wrote:Southwest has struggled over the last few years to really keep what it HAS been offering at BOS going. It seems like with every new schedule, flights are slowly chopped, or frequencies are cut from 3x a day to 2x a day or 1x a day -- or just weekly.
They have become basically a hub airline for BOS, and they don't even serve all of their hubs. MCO gets a once-weekly fight from BOS. DAL isn't served. DEN had flights chopped all summer -- and continues to have limited direct service for the fall/winter -- which then limits journeys you can make from there.
Then there's the lack of the ability to book seats, something that doesn't seem like a big deal in many parts of the country, but comes back as a frustration point in the more affluent northeast.
BOS has had the ability to take on Southwest expansion -- especially now with the lack of international traffic. There's no interest from the airline to expand service.
Like others have said, if somehow Southwest could make a B6/WN merger happen, you'd see customers being hemorrhaged to the likes of Delta, American and United.
B6BOSfan wrote:Southwest has struggled over the last few years to really keep what it HAS been offering at BOS going. It seems like with every new schedule, flights are slowly chopped, or frequencies are cut from 3x a day to 2x a day or 1x a day -- or just weekly.
They have become basically a hub airline for BOS, and they don't even serve all of their hubs. MCO gets a once-weekly fight from BOS. DAL isn't served. DEN had flights chopped all summer -- and continues to have limited direct service for the fall/winter -- which then limits journeys you can make from there.
Then there's the lack of the ability to book seats, something that doesn't seem like a big deal in many parts of the country, but comes back as a frustration point in the more affluent northeast.
BOS has had the ability to take on Southwest expansion -- especially now with the lack of international traffic. There's no interest from the airline to expand service.
B6BOSfan wrote:Southwest has struggled over the last few years to really keep what it HAS been offering at BOS going. It seems like with every new schedule, flights are slowly chopped, or frequencies are cut from 3x a day to 2x a day or 1x a day -- or just weekly.
They have become basically a hub airline for BOS, and they don't even serve all of their hubs. MCO gets a once-weekly fight from BOS. DAL isn't served. DEN had flights chopped all summer -- and continues to have limited direct service for the fall/winter -- which then limits journeys you can make from there.
Then there's the lack of the ability to book seats, something that doesn't seem like a big deal in many parts of the country, but comes back as a frustration point in the more affluent northeast.
BOS has had the ability to take on Southwest expansion -- especially now with the lack of international traffic. There's no interest from the airline to expand service.
Like others have said, if somehow Southwest could make a B6/WN merger happen, you'd see customers being hemorrhaged to the likes of Delta, American and United.
asteriskceo wrote:WN is awful. Get assigned seating and then we can have a discussion. The entire process is stressful.
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AC4500 wrote:asteriskceo wrote:WN is awful. Get assigned seating and then we can have a discussion. The entire process is stressful.
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I actually find it be be less stressful. As long as you check-in exactly 24 hours before your flight departs (down to the very minute), you're bound to get at least B1-B15 boarding position, but you'll most likely get into group A. That easily gets you a preferable seat towards the front of the plane. The entire boarding process as a whole is much faster as well.
The problem is when you get sidetracked, lose track of time, or are just simply too busy and forget to check-in at exactly 24 hours before departure. I checked in roughly 15 minutes later than 24 hours for an OAK-PDX flight, and that got me towards the middle of group C.
B6BOSfan wrote:Southwest has struggled over the last few years to really keep what it HAS been offering at BOS going. It seems like with every new schedule, flights are slowly chopped, or frequencies are cut from 3x a day to 2x a day or 1x a day -- or just weekly.
They have become basically a hub airline for BOS, and they don't even serve all of their hubs. MCO gets a once-weekly fight from BOS. DAL isn't served. DEN had flights chopped all summer -- and continues to have limited direct service for the fall/winter -- which then limits journeys you can make from there.
Then there's the lack of the ability to book seats, something that doesn't seem like a big deal in many parts of the country, but comes back as a frustration point in the more affluent northeast.
BOS has had the ability to take on Southwest expansion -- especially now with the lack of international traffic. There's no interest from the airline to expand service.
Like others have said, if somehow Southwest could make a B6/WN merger happen, you'd see customers being hemorrhaged to the likes of Delta, American and United.
PVD523 wrote:I'm still under the impression WN convinced themselves they could waltz into BOS and replicate the success they had at MHT and PVD. Understandably, their growth strategy for the region required a BOS presence. But the success they hoped for never came thanks to the dogfight for BOS' soul that B6 and DL got into, and the fare pressure from the bottom thanks to NK (and F9 for a time). What's worse is that to feed their BOS growth they cut everything at MHT and PVD that made them successful in the first place and turned their back on two markets that absolutely adored them. I agree, they now seem lost at BOS, and I'll say they seem lost in New England as a whole, and I'm very curious what their next plays will be.
B6BOSfan wrote:They have become basically a hub airline for BOS, and they don't even serve all of their hubs. MCO gets a once-weekly fight from BOS. DAL isn't served. DEN had flights chopped all summer -- and continues to have limited direct service for the fall/winter -- which then limits journeys you can make from there.
sldispatcher wrote:Why in the world would WN want to take on B6 debt, costs, culture and complexity when they can grow organically?
trueblew wrote:WN couldn't keep their type of product in NYC, among other markets, while keeping all the routes and customers that B6 has. The majority will flee to DL/AA/UA. At what point is a merger with B6 worth it if WN doesn't even keep the customer base in B6's largest markets?
jbpdx wrote:The Biden administration is focused on expanding competition in corporate America. It’s doubtful there’ll be any mergers or buyouts
approved by the Justice Department in the foreseeable future.
pmanni1 wrote:A problem that I see with WN at BOS is that the routes they serve only take you out of the northeast. If you want a flight anywhere within the northeast you have to fly down to BWI and connect. No nonstops to LGA,DCA,PHL,PIT,IAD,BUF etc etc.
Jshank83 wrote:I don't agree with the B1-B15 if you check in right on time though (although it matters how big a WN station you are at). I do that and being at a big WN station with lots of connectors I usually am more B30ish. Too many A-list and connectors get ahead of me. That all said I never have an issue getting my seat type of choice so it isn't that big a deal. As long as I am not right by the bathrooms the row spot doesn't matter that much to me. But as others mentioned if you care just get early bird. Its the same as the upcharge to go from basic economy fares to economy on majors anyway, usually less.
AC4500 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:I don't agree with the B1-B15 if you check in right on time though (although it matters how big a WN station you are at). I do that and being at a big WN station with lots of connectors I usually am more B30ish. Too many A-list and connectors get ahead of me. That all said I never have an issue getting my seat type of choice so it isn't that big a deal. As long as I am not right by the bathrooms the row spot doesn't matter that much to me. But as others mentioned if you care just get early bird. Its the same as the upcharge to go from basic economy fares to economy on majors anyway, usually less.
Yeah, I forgot to mention that those with connecting itineraries get priority for check-in. Perhaps that's why I got a C-position place for my one-way flight from OAK.
ScottB wrote:B6BOSfan wrote:They have become basically a hub airline for BOS, and they don't even serve all of their hubs. MCO gets a once-weekly fight from BOS. DAL isn't served. DEN had flights chopped all summer -- and continues to have limited direct service for the fall/winter -- which then limits journeys you can make from there.
Have you actually been in Boston in the last two years? Recovery from the pandemic in Boston and New York has significantly lagged the rest of the country. Even in May, total passenger count at BOS was still down 55% compared to the same month in 2019. B6 was at maybe 80 daily departures in April and BOS is their second-most-important market.
WN is operating five daily OAK-LAX flights today -- compared to more like a dozen in pre-pandemic times. Does that mean WN is abandoning the intra-California market, or does it mean that WN is temporarily adjusting their schedule and network to reflect the realities of a market which is still recovering from pandemic lockdowns?
B6BOSfan wrote:ScottB wrote:B6BOSfan wrote:They have become basically a hub airline for BOS, and they don't even serve all of their hubs. MCO gets a once-weekly fight from BOS. DAL isn't served. DEN had flights chopped all summer -- and continues to have limited direct service for the fall/winter -- which then limits journeys you can make from there.
Have you actually been in Boston in the last two years? Recovery from the pandemic in Boston and New York has significantly lagged the rest of the country. Even in May, total passenger count at BOS was still down 55% compared to the same month in 2019. B6 was at maybe 80 daily departures in April and BOS is their second-most-important market.
WN is operating five daily OAK-LAX flights today -- compared to more like a dozen in pre-pandemic times. Does that mean WN is abandoning the intra-California market, or does it mean that WN is temporarily adjusting their schedule and network to reflect the realities of a market which is still recovering from pandemic lockdowns?
I LIVE in Boston Scott AND flew multiple times during the middle of the pandemic. I can tell you, point blank, Southwest's service to/from BOS Is less now than it was last summer/fall during the pandemic -- and even lower vs. their previous years when everyone was thriving.
Southwest actually did one of the best jobs of any airline holding service up to at least their hubs as others were cutting flights. I flew them multiple times out of BOS during the pandemic. They don't service the business customer in Boston like a BIG chunk of the other airlines do. I'd bet that a big chunk of the passengers still not flying (40% or more) is ALL business travelers.
Their cuts began far before the pandemic began. The DAL flight, the MKE flight, all were cut -- BEFORE the pandemic hit.
They make it impossible to fly to so many of the destinations they advertise -- because of the continued amounts of cuts, or miserable one flight times they are offering.
As another user said, Southwest does spectacular across most of the USA. They are LOST when it comes to New England -- particularly Eastern New England.
B6BOSfan wrote:I LIVE in Boston Scott AND flew multiple times during the middle of the pandemic. I can tell you, point blank, Southwest's service to/from BOS Is less now than it was last summer/fall during the pandemic -- and even lower vs. their previous years when everyone was thriving.
B6BOSfan wrote:They make it impossible to fly to so many of the destinations they advertise -- because of the continued amounts of cuts, or miserable one flight times they are offering.
B6BOSfan wrote:Their cuts began far before the pandemic began. The DAL flight, the MKE flight, all were cut -- BEFORE the pandemic hit.
DN4CAAD wrote:Just out of curiosity and not to throw the thread off, but why are there still so many Canyon Blue jets? Why is WN taking so long to respray them into Heart liv?
jplatts wrote:DN4CAAD wrote:Just out of curiosity and not to throw the thread off, but why are there still so many Canyon Blue jets? Why is WN taking so long to respray them into Heart liv?
WN needed the 737-700 and 737-800 planes that were still in the Canyon Blue livery in service due to the plane shortages that WN was facing as a result of the 737-300 retirements and 737 MAX grounding.
WN has already taken delivery of at least 19 737 MAX 8 planes this year, and WN is currently scheduled to take delivery of an additional 16 737 MAX planes this year (as WN was scheduled to take delivery of 35 737 MAX 8 planes in 2021).
DN4CAAD wrote:jplatts wrote:DN4CAAD wrote:Just out of curiosity and not to throw the thread off, but why are there still so many Canyon Blue jets? Why is WN taking so long to respray them into Heart liv?
WN needed the 737-700 and 737-800 planes that were still in the Canyon Blue livery in service due to the plane shortages that WN was facing as a result of the 737-300 retirements and 737 MAX grounding.
WN has already taken delivery of at least 19 737 MAX 8 planes this year, and WN is currently scheduled to take delivery of an additional 16 737 MAX planes this year (as WN was scheduled to take delivery of 35 737 MAX 8 planes in 2021).
So remaining Canyon Blue's that haven't been repainted will be facing the axe soon?
DN4CAAD wrote:Just out of curiosity and not to throw the thread off, but why are there still so many Canyon Blue jets? Why is WN taking so long to respray them into Heart liv?
jplatts wrote:ECP, GRR, GSP, LGB, PNS, RSW, and SJU saw more passengers on WN in April 2021 than in April 2019.
Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, load factors, and percent increase in passengers at ECP, GRR, GSP, LGB, PNS, and RSW in April 2019 and April 2021:
ECP:
49743 passengers in 4/2019, 66406 seats in 4/2019, 74.91% load factor in 4/2019
74278 passengers in 4/2019, 96719 seats in 4/2021, 76.80% load factor in 4/2021
149.3% increase in passengers
GRR:
34434 passengers in 4/2019, 47917 seats in 4/2019, 71.86% load factor in 4/2019
43628 passengers in 4/2019, 59766 seats in 4/2021, 73.00% load factor in 4/2021
126.7% increase in passengers
GSP:
16699 passengers in 4/2019, 25059 seats in 4/2019, 66.64% load factor in 4/2019
21338 passengers in 4/2019, 34693 seats in 4/2021, 61.51% load factor in 4/2021
127.8% increase in passengers
LGB:
91954 passengers in 4/2019, 121280 seats in 4/2019, 75.82% load factor in 4/2019
133621 passengers in 4/2019, 223358 seats in 4/2021, 59.82% load factor in 4/2021
145.3% increase in passengers
PNS:
29252 passengers in 4/2019, 35525 seats in 4/2019, 82.34% load factor in 4/2019
47581 passengers in 4/2019, 60923 seats in 4/2021, 78.10% load factor in 4/2021
162.7% increase in passengers
RSW:
165392 passengers in 4/2019, 199700 seats in 4/2019, 82.82% load factor in 4/2019
251994 passengers in 4/2019, 318001 seats in 4/2021, 79.24% load factor in 4/2021
152.4% increase in passengers
SJU:
82903 passengers in 4/2019, 91451 seats in 4/2019, 90.65% load factor in 4/2019
91432 passengers in 4/2021, 112742 seats in 4/2021, 81.10% load factor in 4/2021
110.3% increase in passengers
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:Great comparison, but where did those numbers come from? Your percentage on the increases are wrong. You need to drop the 100 part, as an example SJU only increased 10.3%, not 110.3%. While traffic did increase, only 2 of the cities had load factor increase while the rest decreased. LGB was pretty noticeable decrease in load factor.
jplatts wrote:Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of LGB in April 2021:
AUS-LGB - 7078 passengers, 8836 seats, 80.10% load factor
DAL-LGB - 6935 passengers, 8693 seats, 79.78% load factor
DEN-LGB - 18584 passengers, 34295 seats, 54.19% load factor
HNL-LGB - 6570 passengers, 10325 seats, 63.63% load factor
HOU-LGB - 6458 passengers, 9508 seats, 67.92% load factor
LAS-LGB - 22609 passengers, 35347 seats, 63.96% load factor
LGB-MDW - 6665 passengers, 9668 seats, 68.94% load factor
LGB-OAK - 11169 passengers, 22066 seats, 50.62% load factor
LGB-OGG - 7402 passengers, 10500 seats, 70.50% load factor
LGB-PHX - 15334 passengers, 28253 seats, 54.27% load factor
LGB-RNO - 4548 passengers, 7312 seats, 62.20% load factor
LGB-SJC - 2803 passengers, 9651 seats, 29.04% load factor
LGB-SMF - 13708 passengers, 21891 seats, 62.62% load factor
LGB-STL - 3758 passengers, 7013 seats, 53.59% load factor
jplatts wrote:Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of COS in April 2021:
COS-DAL - 11380 passengers, 25518 seats, 44.60% load factor
COS-DEN - 15986 passengers, 33208 seats, 48.14% load factor
COS-LAS - 9096 passengers, 17160 seats, 53.01% load factor
COS-MDW - 6627 passengers, 17160 seats, 38.62% load factor
COS-PHX - 11673 passengers, 17192 seats, 67.90% load factor
wnflyguy wrote:I saw on a Facebook group United pulling out of PAE after October 5th. I believe UA held 6 total slots.
I wonder if WN might look at it again?
Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy
joeblow10 wrote:If UA can’t make an E175 once a day to DEN work (or at one point, SFO…) I struggle to see how WN would fair any better using more frequencies and 737s, even if they connect up and down the coast
tphuang wrote:WN will not try PAE. That'd be downright foolish.
SteveXC500 wrote:Ishrion wrote:Not sure if new, Southwest's next schedule extension is slated for September 16, 2021 which will extend the schedule through April 24, 2022.
https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-schedules/
By 9/16, WN will have just 3.5 months available for sale. Wow, that seems extremely low. Any thoughts?
jplatts wrote:SteveXC500 wrote:Ishrion wrote:Not sure if new, Southwest's next schedule extension is slated for September 16, 2021 which will extend the schedule through April 24, 2022.
https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-schedules/
By 9/16, WN will have just 3.5 months available for sale. Wow, that seems extremely low. Any thoughts?
I would likely expect WN to respond to the recent F9 adds out of DFW by adding DAL-BUF/CVG/BDL nonstop service and re-adding DAL-SFO nonstop service. WN has more than enough room at DAL to add at least Saturday-only nonstop service to these destinations with WN operating fewer nonstop flights out of DAL on Saturdays than it does on weekdays or Sundays.
WN has significantly more market share than F9 in the BUF, BDL, and SFO/OAK/SJC markets. WN also has FF bases in the BUF, BDL, and SFO/OAK/SJC markets in addition to the DFW/DAL market to support DAL-BUF/BDL/SFO nonstop service.
The situation is different in the CVG market as F9 had served DFW nonstop from CVG prior to WN entering the CVG market. F9 also had more market share in the CVG market than WN did, but that is changing with the decreasing F9 presence at CVG and increasing WN presence at CVG. F9 has also permanently dropped many of its previous nonstop routes out of CVG, including CVG-AUS/FLL/IAH/JAX/LAX/MSP/LGA/PHL/PHX/RDU/SAT/SAN/SFO/SJC/IAD, whereas WN has kept or resumed most of its nonstop routes out of CVG, including CVG-BWI/MDW/RSW/HOU/MCO/PHX/SRQ/TPA. F9 also had stronger point-of-sale in the CVG market than WN (at least prior to the pandemic or recent WN adds out of CVG) to sustain CVG-DFW nonstop service on F9.
WN can make DAL-BUF/CVG/BDL/SFO nonstop service work with less O&D than F9 needs to make DFW-BUF/CVG/BDL/SFO nonstop service work with the connections that WN would be able to offer through DAL.
I probably would also expect WN to re-add DAL-BOS/DTW nonstop service since WN had previously stated that it wants to rebuild its network and since WN was planning on resuming both of these routes prior to the pandemic. There was also significant demand to BOS from DAL on WN prior to the pandemic, and WN also had a significant amount of O&D traffic on DAL-BOS nonstop flights prior to dropping DAL-BOS nonstop service.
I also would probably expect WN to re-add DAL-PBI nonstop service (even it it is on a less-than-daily basis) as WN was able to make DAL-PBI nonstop service work in Spring 2019.
jplatts wrote:There is an article on WFAA's website (which can be found at https://www.wfaa.com/article/money/business/southwest-gary-kelly-transition-new-ceo-executive-chairman/287-d79a6984-a56e-48bf-8faf-920ea462a741) which said that Henry Harteveldt (the president of Atmosphere Research Group) wants WN to consider how to compete more in the Dallas/Fort Worth market. He had also said that WN's new CEO should consider serving airports in Tarrant County such as FTW or AFW to capture some of the traffic on the Fort Worth side of the Metroplex.
WN will be able to enter DFW, FTW, or AFW without having to give up gates at DAL in 2025, and there was a discussion regarding post-2024 plans for WN in the DFW/DAL market at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1452713.
Amwest2United wrote:Trying to locate a list of all ETOPS aircraft, does anyone know of a location? I think most MAX 8's are done, but not sure of tail numbers for the 738's.
Amwest2United wrote:Trying to locate a list of all ETOPS aircraft, does anyone know of a location? I think most MAX 8's are done, but not sure of tail numbers for the 738's.
jplatts wrote:WN will be able to enter DFW, FTW, or AFW without having to give up gates at DAL in 2025, and there was a discussion regarding post-2024 plans for WN in the DFW/DAL market at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1452713.