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Southwest is no longer the quirky LCC where tickets could only be booked locally.

SWA signs with Sabre for full GDS participation. They previously had "Basic-Level" content model with Sabre which they announced previously would be ending due friction with the legacy technology involved.

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... -agreement

Does that mean Southwest will be on Travelocity Expedia ect?

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LAXintl wrote:

Southwest is no longer the quirky LCC where tickets could only be booked locally.

SWA signs with Sabre for full GDS participation. They previously had "Basic-Level" content model with Sabre which they announced previously would be ending due friction with the legacy technology involved.

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... -agreement

What does this mean? I don’t know what full participation entails.

Linked press release states:


Under the agreement, Sabre will distribute Southwest Airlines flights and services through its travel marketplace, providing Sabre connected-agencies and other travel buyers with access to Southwest Airlines content. This agreement reflects a broader relationship between the two companies and will deliver richer capabilities to travel buyers, including improved schedule and inventory accuracy; last seat availability; and real-time booking functionality and the ability to modify Southwest bookings within Sabre. Implementation teams will work swiftly to bring Southwest online at full-participation in 2021.

ibthebigd wrote:

Does that mean Southwest will be on Travelocity Expedia ect?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Certainly does seem that way. At the very least they'll show up in results on Google Flights.

Any idea if this is covid-motivated or if this was just a long time coming?

smokeybandit wrote:

Any idea if this is covid-motivated or if this was just a long time coming?

I can only speculate - but with many search engines now including options to include baggage into pricing and displaying results, probably made sense for WN to finally make the switch (furthered by the COVID environment). If COVID wasn’t happening, they probably wouldn’t have pulled the trigger just yet imo, but with such a low demand environment, you have to find it wherever you can.

I regularly see WN matching UA or other legacy BE fares, but obviously with baggage included. That should help their position on these search engines if customers include baggage selections. A big fear of theirs was customers booking away from WN due to difference in pricing and how that may appear when booking if you’re not just going right to Southwest.com

Don't see it having anything really to do with COVID, just part of the process of Southwest maturing as a business and coming out of its shell.

SWA back in July 2019 announced it reached agreements with both Travelport and Amadeus to provide content and full booking capabilities in their GDSs, but had yet to reach a deal to expand its legacy deal with Sabre beyond basic level access. Its now wrapped that up and will enjoy enhanced access through the Sabre network which holds the largest distribution market share in the U.S.

LAXintl wrote:

Don't see it having anything really to do with COVID, just part of the process of Southwest maturing as a business and coming out of its shell.

It's been a long time coming. Imagine how we would think Neeleman a moron if he declared it would be 49 years before Breeze sold tickets thru a consumer-facing GDS portal.

MIflyer12 wrote:

LAXintl wrote:

Don't see it having anything really to do with COVID, just part of the process of Southwest maturing as a business and coming out of its shell.

It's been a long time coming. Imagine how we would think Neeleman a moron if he declared it would be 49 years before Breeze sold tickets thru a consumer-facing GDS portal.

It states “...enables the two companies to continue offering business Customers access to the carrier's low fares and legendary Customer service in 2021 and beyond. Under the agreement, Sabre will continue to distribute Southwest's content through traditional connectivity to corporations, government agencies, and TMCs through its global distribution system (GDS).”

So, I don’t think this is direct to consumer channels (ie. Travelocity, Orbitz, etc.), but expansion of capabilities for corporate/business travel.

WN732 wrote:

ibthebigd wrote:

Does that mean Southwest will be on Travelocity Expedia ect?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Certainly does seem that way. At the very least they'll show up in results on Google Flights.

They already do show up on Google Flights, you just can't see the fares that they offer. (example: https://www.google.com/travel/flights/s ... gYIAxAAGAA)

Think we will see any news destination announcements from WN in 2021?

evank516 wrote:

Think we will see any news destination announcements from WN in 2021?

Details for the new (but long rumored) FAT and SBA services. Perhaps a return to EYW now that its runway is a bit longer. Maybe even a return to BKG - that incredible Netflix TV show Ozark may have put Branson on the map after WN ended service there a few years ago. Other likely contenders for WN service would probably be ACK, ANC, BTV, BZN, EGE, FAI, JAC, MRY, MYR, RAP, STS, STT, SUN, TVC, TYS and/or VPS. Some of those might be seasonal only, if only initially.

Does anybody know what the fate of the Dessert Gold and Canyon blue livery’s will be, since the retirement of N711HK and N714CB are imminent, and they repainted Warrior one into the Heart livery.

Flew into COS this evening and looks like things are starting to get ready for WN’s arrival. Gates 11 & 12 have been vacated by F9 and WN’s website is showing they will operate out of 9 & 11. My guess is WN will also be getting access to 12 for use during DEN diversions and late night arrivals if necessary.

Dessert Gold? Sounds better than pumpkin pie!

MIflyer12 wrote:

LAXintl wrote:

Don't see it having anything really to do with COVID, just part of the process of Southwest maturing as a business and coming out of its shell.

It's been a long time coming. Imagine how we would think Neeleman a moron if he declared it would be 49 years before Breeze sold tickets thru a consumer-facing GDS portal.

Well, keep in mind that WN actually did sell through the GDS networks for nearly half of their history. They were kicked out of Apollo and System One back in 1994. Consumer-facing GDS portals like eAAsySabre did exist through online services like CompuServe, GEnie, and Prodigy upwards of 30 years ago, but they really weren't all that relevant until the late 1990s.

While they absolutely lose some bookings by not being on the OTAs, there are significant cost savings and there's also some value in consumers going directly to the company website rather than comparison shopping.

I am guessing that WN is doing away with special paint schemes.... They have eliminated 2 of the state planes I believe and the 2nd paint scheme planes...the barney purple ones... just going with the new one it looks like... every plane the same..sad.. oh well

737Jason wrote:

Does anybody know what the fate of the Dessert Gold and Canyon blue livery’s will be, since the retirement of N711HK and N714CB are imminent, and they repainted Warrior one into the Heart livery.

[twoid][/twoid]

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:

I am guessing that WN is doing away with special paint schemes.... They have eliminated 2 of the state planes I believe and the 2nd paint scheme planes...the barney purple ones... just going with the new one it looks like... every plane the same..sad.. oh well

737Jason wrote:

Does anybody know what the fate of the Dessert Gold and Canyon blue livery’s will be, since the retirement of N711HK and N714CB are imminent, and they repainted Warrior one into the Heart livery.

All Themed repaints have been put in Hold in this Pandemic cost control crisis. I believe a normal repaint schedules will resume in 2022. WN is adding about 35 extra MAX8 this year but will be used as a one for one retirement keeping standard liveries.
Its even been said that a special 50th anniversary paint job got shelved in the pandemic cost control plan.

Flyguy

Hoping for HVN-BWI service. It's a short stage length and if the 737-700's work at EYW and it's 5076 foot runway, HVN's 5600 foot runway should work.

airlineworker wrote:

Hoping for HVN-BWI service. It's a short stage length and if the 737-700's work at EYW and it's 5076 foot runway, HVN's 5600 foot runway should work.

Don’t hold your breath on that route.

I'll venture a guess that WN's next domestic station will be Bozeman-capture the huge amount of traffic to Yellowstone in the summer and run it as a smaller station for the shoulder and winter months with additional Saturday capacity for skiing on the weekends.

wnflyguy wrote:

[twoid][/twoid]

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:

I am guessing that WN is doing away with special paint schemes.... They have eliminated 2 of the state planes I believe and the 2nd paint scheme planes...the barney purple ones... just going with the new one it looks like... every plane the same..sad.. oh well

737Jason wrote:

Does anybody know what the fate of the Dessert Gold and Canyon blue livery’s will be, since the retirement of N711HK and N714CB are imminent, and they repainted Warrior one into the Heart livery.

All Themed repaints have been put in Hold in this Pandemic cost control crisis. I believe a normal repaint schedules will resume in 2022. WN is adding about 35 extra MAX8 this year but will be used as a one for one retirement keeping standard liveries.
Its even been said that a special 50th anniversary paint job got shelved in the pandemic cost control plan.

Flyguy

That's truly a shame but completely understandable in the current environment.

https://southwest50.com/?fbclid=IwAR2lh ... bCbXSC_iSA

In the video Gary mentions that there are some big surprises that he has "sworn to secrecy" about. I'm still holding out for a golden jet like the golden heart in the branding. They are also selling merchandise on the store for their 50th as well.

WN732 wrote:

wnflyguy wrote:

[twoid][/twoid]

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:

I am guessing that WN is doing away with special paint schemes.... They have eliminated 2 of the state planes I believe and the 2nd paint scheme planes...the barney purple ones... just going with the new one it looks like... every plane the same..sad.. oh well

All Themed repaints have been put in Hold in this Pandemic cost control crisis. I believe a normal repaint schedules will resume in 2022. WN is adding about 35 extra MAX8 this year but will be used as a one for one retirement keeping standard liveries.
Its even been said that a special 50th anniversary paint job got shelved in the pandemic cost control plan.

Flyguy

That's truly a shame but completely understandable in the current environment.

Is there any word on what the 50th anniversary plane would look like? Also, I know Illinois one has been taken away from us but what other plane is gone?

Something I just happened to find interesting. WN seems to not be running many evening departures from some of the bigger stations. Saturday may be a bit different.

ATL - 1 flight after 6.
BNA - 4 flights after 5
OAK - 1 flight after 7
MCO - 4 flights after 6
FLL - 4 flights after 5 (2 of which are after 6 and both to BWI)
DAL - 4 after 6 (1 of which is after 7)
STL- nothing after 5.

I did take a little bit of liberty with some times. If there was for example a 6:05 flight lumped it in with before 6 because it’s close enough.

Jshank83 wrote:

Something I just happened to find interesting. WN seems to not be running many evening departures from some of the bigger stations. Saturday may be a bit different.

ATL - 1 flight after 6.
BNA - 4 flights after 5
OAK - 1 flight after 7
MCO - 4 flights after 6
FLL - 4 flights after 5 (2 of which are after 6 and both to BWI)
DAL - 4 after 6 (1 of which is after 7)
STL- nothing after 5.

I did take a little bit of liberty with some times. If there was for example a 6:05 flight lumped it in with before 6 because it’s close enough.

They've been doing that throughout the pandemic. Right now during the normal slump of Winter and Early Spring it will be that way. Once we get around Spring Break and beyond things are at least scheduled a little more normal again.

With AA&B6 being forced to give up 7 slots at JFK and 6 at DCA.
I'm going to say JFK definitely on the list for WN to add service to in 2021.
Unless United out bids them on the price.

Thoughts?
Flyguy

wnflyguy wrote:

With AA&B6 being forced to give up 7 slots at JFK and 6 at DCA.
I'm going to say JFK definitely on the list for WN to add service to in 2021.
Unless United out bids them on the price.

Thoughts?
Flyguy

What do you think they can possibly fly with 7 slots that could work?

tphuang wrote:

What do you think they can possibly fly with 7 slots that could work?

That's a good question. I guess there are long-standing WN stations with seven or fewer flights a day (PWM comes to mind), but I can't think of such an airport with so few WN flights AND another WN airport just 1/2 an hour away and NYC costs. Now, if you were to posit that WN wanted to open JFK and get to 40 flights within 12 months, built around 5x daily to MCO, FLL, MDW, HOU... that would seem more plausible to me.

MIflyer12 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

What do you think they can possibly fly with 7 slots that could work?

That's a good question. I guess there are long-standing WN stations with seven or fewer flights a day (PWM comes to mind), but I can't think of such an airport with so few WN flights AND another WN airport just 1/2 an hour away and NYC costs.

WN opened LGB in 2016 with only 4 daily departures to OAK due to slot restrictions at LGB, but WN has significantly expanded at LGB after acquiring extra slots, including adding LGB-AUS/MDW/DAL/DEN/HNL/HOU/LAS/PHX/RNO/SMF/STL/SJC nonstop service.

WN had a minimal presence at IAD prior to the COVID-19 pandemic with only 3x DEN and 3x ATL, but WN is going to be resuming IAD-MDW nonstop service in March 2021.

Here were the number of seats, number of passengers, and load factors on EWR-AUS/PHX on WN in 2019:
EWR-AUS - 100949 passengers, 124295 seats, 81.22% load factor
EWR-PHX - 84901 passengers, 93117 seats, 91.18% load factor

WN adding JFK-AUS/PHX nonstop service are possibilities with both AUS and PHX both being outside of the LGA perimeter and with WN being able to fill EWR-AUS/PHX nonstop flights prior to pulling out of EWR.

WN adding JFK-MDW nonstop service is also a possibility with WN having less nonstop service to NYC from MDW than was the case prior to WN pulling out of EWR.

tphuang wrote:

wnflyguy wrote:

With AA&B6 being forced to give up 7 slots at JFK and 6 at DCA.
I'm going to say JFK definitely on the list for WN to add service to in 2021.
Unless United out bids them on the price.

Thoughts?
Flyguy

What do you think they can possibly fly with 7 slots that could work?

I think you would probably see 3 MDW,3 DEN and 1 DAL.
Flyguy

wnflyguy wrote:

tphuang wrote:

wnflyguy wrote:

With AA&B6 being forced to give up 7 slots at JFK and 6 at DCA.
I'm going to say JFK definitely on the list for WN to add service to in 2021.
Unless United out bids them on the price.

Thoughts?
Flyguy

What do you think they can possibly fly with 7 slots that could work?

I think you would probably see 3 MDW,3 DEN and 1 DAL.
Flyguy

Those are all within perimeter routes. If their performance to these places were horrendous out of EWR, why would you think it would do better out of JFK, which is even less desirable for within perimeter airports.

tphuang wrote:

wnflyguy wrote:

With AA&B6 being forced to give up 7 slots at JFK and 6 at DCA.
I'm going to say JFK definitely on the list for WN to add service to in 2021.
Unless United out bids them on the price.

Thoughts?
Flyguy

What do you think they can possibly fly with 7 slots that could work?

Are you forgetting that WN opened LGA with about that many slots? It was either 4x BWI and 3x MDW or the other way around.

wnflyguy wrote:

With AA&B6 being forced to give up 7 slots at JFK and 6 at DCA.

Thoughts?

Top within-DCA perimeter destinations traveled to from BWI in 2019 that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from DCA include BOS, RDU, MHT, BDL, ALB, BUF, ORF, PWM, CHS, IND, ROC, CLE, and SDF.

If WN acquires extra slots at DCA, there are some more within-DCA perimeter destinations that WN could serve nonstop out of DCA.

evank516 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

wnflyguy wrote:

With AA&B6 being forced to give up 7 slots at JFK and 6 at DCA.
I'm going to say JFK definitely on the list for WN to add service to in 2021.
Unless United out bids them on the price.

Thoughts?
Flyguy

What do you think they can possibly fly with 7 slots that could work?

Are you forgetting that WN opened LGA with about that many slots? It was either 4x BWI and 3x MDW or the other way around.

LGA and JFK don't have the same appeal for within perimeter destinations. WN had close to 20 flights at EWR and couldn't make it work.

Southwest facing network-wide delays today after a computer outage.

Speaking of SWA's fleet, what are the odds that SWA places an A220 order in 2021? 50%? Less than 50%? Is the MAX 7 more likely even with the fleet concentration risk experienced with the MAX over the last few years? Obviously the Covid situation clouds the timing and decision making. Will we see an A220 in SWA colors in the next few years? Predictions?

Lavdumper wrote:

Speaking of SWA's fleet, what are the odds that SWA places an A220 order in 2021? 50%? Less than 50%? Is the MAX 7 more likely even with the fleet concentration risk experienced with the MAX over the last few years? Obviously the Covid situation clouds the timing and decision making. Will we see an A220 in SWA colors in the next few years? Predictions?

Never say never, but the chances of seeing an A220 in a WN livery are pretty slim. The only reason WN even touted the idea in the first place is to put pressure on Boeing. I'd give it a 10% chance.

AC4500 wrote:

Lavdumper wrote:

Speaking of SWA's fleet, what are the odds that SWA places an A220 order in 2021? 50%? Less than 50%? Is the MAX 7 more likely even with the fleet concentration risk experienced with the MAX over the last few years? Obviously the Covid situation clouds the timing and decision making. Will we see an A220 in SWA colors in the next few years? Predictions?

Never say never, but the chances of seeing an A220 in a WN livery are pretty slim. The only reason WN even touted the idea in the first place is to put pressure on Boeing. I'd give it a 10% chance.

Agree. And I think 10% generous.

Lavdumper wrote:

Speaking of SWA's fleet, what are the odds that SWA places an A220 order in 2021? 50%? Less than 50%? Is the MAX 7 more likely even with the fleet concentration risk experienced with the MAX over the last few years? Obviously the Covid situation clouds the timing and decision making. Will we see an A220 in SWA colors in the next few years? Predictions?

Heck forget the A220 They still haven't taken the built MAX7 yet.
Strong speculation WN maybe walking away from the MAX7 causing Boeing to scrap the Line
Completely. I'm wondering if WN will shear some insight on the future of the MAX7 during the January 28th earnings call.

Flyguy

Delete

wnflyguy wrote:

Lavdumper wrote:

Speaking of SWA's fleet, what are the odds that SWA places an A220 order in 2021? 50%? Less than 50%? Is the MAX 7 more likely even with the fleet concentration risk experienced with the MAX over the last few years? Obviously the Covid situation clouds the timing and decision making. Will we see an A220 in SWA colors in the next few years? Predictions?

Heck forget the A220 They still haven't taken the built MAX7 yet.
Strong speculation WN maybe walking away from the MAX7 causing Boeing to scrap the Line
Completely. I'm wondering if WN will shear some insight on the future of the MAX7 during the January 28th earnings call.

Flyguy

I highly doubt that they are walking away from the MAX7. There are over 500 -700’s that will need to be replaced and the MAX7 makes the most sense for WN from a fleet commonality perspective.

SWADawg wrote:

wnflyguy wrote:

Lavdumper wrote:

Speaking of SWA's fleet, what are the odds that SWA places an A220 order in 2021? 50%? Less than 50%? Is the MAX 7 more likely even with the fleet concentration risk experienced with the MAX over the last few years? Obviously the Covid situation clouds the timing and decision making. Will we see an A220 in SWA colors in the next few years? Predictions?

Heck forget the A220 They still haven't taken the built MAX7 yet.
Strong speculation WN maybe walking away from the MAX7 causing Boeing to scrap the Line
Completely. I'm wondering if WN will shear some insight on the future of the MAX7 during the January 28th earnings call.

Flyguy

I highly doubt that they are walking away from the MAX7. There are over 500 -700’s that will need to be replaced and the MAX7 makes the most sense for WN from a fleet commonality perspective.

Gary Kelly specifically mentioned the MAX7 as being a large portion of the -700 fleet replacement. They'll definitely amass a large sized fleet of them.

tphuang wrote:

evank516 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

What do you think they can possibly fly with 7 slots that could work?

Are you forgetting that WN opened LGA with about that many slots? It was either 4x BWI and 3x MDW or the other way around.

LGA and JFK don't have the same appeal for within perimeter destinations. WN had close to 20 flights at EWR and couldn't make it work.

The destinations were not what I was emphasizing, it was the fact that they started with 7 slots. They can do plenty.

However, my personal opinion is that WN doesn’t need JFK if they’re flying to both LGA and ISP. They’re completely covered east of the Hudson.

WN really should return to EWR.

Vctony wrote:

WN really should return to EWR.

I agree that the return of WN to EWR might be a possibility with
(a) WN having fewer nonstops to NYC from MDW than it did prior to pulling out of EWR,
(b) WN having previously served a few beyond-LGA perimeter destinations such as AUS and PHX nonstop from EWR, and
(c) the amount of passengers that WN was carrying to the NYC market (LGA/EWR/ISP) exceeded the capacity available on WN LGA/ISP flights in the January 2019 - October 2019 time period.

WN might be able to get demand to NYC on WN back up to 2019 levels without re-entering EWR by upgauging more flights out of LGA and ISP to the 737-800 or 737 MAX 8.

While ISP is too far from the NYC boroughs, New Jersey, and Westchester County to be a viable alternative to LGA/JFK/EWR for those going to the NYC boroughs, New Jersey, or Westchester County, WN re-adding MDW-ISP nonstop service would give those traveling to Long Island suburbs additional options on WN.

WN has lost market share on travel to the NYC metro area from other parts of the U.S. subsequent to WN pulling out of EWR, and WN probably would not be able to get the same market share to the NYC metro area that it did prior to the EWR pullout, even with upgauging of WN flights out of LGA/ISP or adds by WN out of ISP, due to
(a) the adds that were made by B6, F9, and NK out of EWR subsequent to WN pulling out of EWR,
(b) some of those traveling to EWR choosing to stick with other airlines such as UA, B6, F9, or NK over WN, even if WN re-enters EWR,
(c) most of the markets that WN previously served nonstop from EWR now having nonstop service to EWR on B6, F9, and/or NK,
(d) some of those traveling to the NYC metro area choosing EWR over LGA, JFK, or ISP, and
(e) the significant decrease in demand to the NYC market during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Vctony wrote:

WN really should return to EWR.

They returned to DEN, SFO, IAH and even JAN. I should think a return to EWR as well as EYW and perhaps even BKG will happen sooner or later!

jplatts wrote:

Vctony wrote:

WN really should return to EWR.

I agree that the return of WN to EWR might be a possibility with
(a) WN having fewer nonstops to NYC from MDW than it did prior to pulling out of EWR,
(b) WN having previously served a few beyond-LGA perimeter destinations such as AUS and PHX nonstop from EWR, and
(c) the amount of passengers that WN was carrying to the NYC market (LGA/EWR/ISP) exceeded the capacity available on WN LGA/ISP flights in the January 2019 - October 2019 time period.

WN might be able to get demand to NYC on WN back up to 2019 levels without re-entering EWR by upgauging more flights out of LGA and ISP to the 737-800 or 737 MAX 8.

While ISP is too far from the NYC boroughs, New Jersey, and Westchester County to be a viable alternative to LGA/JFK/EWR for those going to the NYC boroughs, New Jersey, or Westchester County, WN re-adding MDW-ISP nonstop service would give those traveling to Long Island suburbs additional options on WN.

WN has lost market share on travel to the NYC metro area from other parts of the U.S. subsequent to WN pulling out of EWR, and WN probably would not be able to get the same market share to the NYC metro area that it did prior to the EWR pullout, even with upgauging of WN flights out of LGA/ISP or adds by WN out of ISP, due to
(a) the adds that were made by B6, F9, and NK out of EWR subsequent to WN pulling out of EWR,
(b) some of those traveling to EWR choosing to stick with other airlines such as UA, B6, F9, or NK over WN, even if WN re-enters EWR,
(c) most of the markets that WN previously served nonstop from EWR now having nonstop service to EWR on B6, F9, and/or NK,
(d) some of those traveling to the NYC metro area choosing EWR over LGA, JFK, or ISP, and
(e) the significant decrease in demand to the NYC market during the COVID-19 pandemic.

WN will return to EWR eventually. Hopefully it'll happen once they start regularly flying the 737MAX again.

Consolidating all of their NYC operations at LGA has limited their new market options in the NYC area, and WN currently has a surprising low presence in the NYC area considering how large the market is.