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Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1898
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:16 pm

iAvgeek737 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

Let’s get the EWR ball rolling next. ATL 2x, BNA 2x, DEN 2x, FLL 2x, MDW 4x, STL 2x: would all do great.

WN pulled out of EWR just 18 months ago due to poor financial results. Why would they do great now?


IIRC they had abysmal frequencies for one and then for two it wasnt really market as a NYC airport?


Exactly, when u went to book NYC, it would just come up LGA and ISP.
 
Delta28L
Posts: 441
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:21 pm

FlyPNS1 wrote:
SYR comes on board....looks like just BWI and MCO.

BLI will just be LAS/OAK.


I thought they served SYR before and they pulled out. Or was that through air tran when they merged?
 
737max8
Posts: 723
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:25 pm

Press release is out and has a link to all of the new and returning markets!

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... he-midwest
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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av8tiongeek
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:02 pm

According to my sources with respect to MSP, while nothing is official, WN is not moving back to the pre-Covid flight schedule like many other stations, so there is some concern and chatter among the workgroups. Currently, they're at 15/18 daily departures. And pre-Covid they averaged 28. It doesn't look like they'll move beyond 18 during peak summer months.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4526
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:14 pm

Wneast wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
There's bound to many surprises considering they're hosting the celebration in Houston, rather than in their hometown of Dallas.

So some of the announcements might relate to Houston? Or we could see other stuff ? they only one I could think we be a expansion of INT out of Houston


av8tiongeek wrote:
Let's hope there's more exciting news than new liveries. I mean the party is being held in Houston so I am hoping for S. America destinations. We'll know soon enough.


WN has added some more nonstop routes out of HOU in today's schedule extension, including Saturday-only HOU-HDN/MTJ nonstop service, HOU-COS nonstop service on certain dates during the holidays, and the resumption of HOU-BZE/BOS/LBB/MBJ/RNO nonstop service.

I probably would expect WN to announce some more nonstop routes out of HOU and IAH in addition to the HOU-COS/HDN/MTJ nonstop flights added in today's schedule extension, including HOU-ORD/NAS/PLS and IAH-ATL/STL.
 
AC4500
Posts: 655
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:17 pm

737max8 wrote:
Press release is out and has a link to all of the new and returning markets!

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... he-midwest

No mention of PSP-PDX in their press release, but that's probably because it's a Saturday-only route.
Next:
UA: PDX-EWR-DCA
WN: BWI-STL-PDX
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:17 pm

jplatts wrote:
Wneast wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
There's bound to many surprises considering they're hosting the celebration in Houston, rather than in their hometown of Dallas.

So some of the announcements might relate to Houston? Or we could see other stuff ? they only one I could think we be a expansion of INT out of Houston


av8tiongeek wrote:
Let's hope there's more exciting news than new liveries. I mean the party is being held in Houston so I am hoping for S. America destinations. We'll know soon enough.


WN has added some more nonstop routes out of HOU in today's schedule extension, including Saturday-only HOU-HDN/MTJ nonstop service, HOU-COS nonstop service on certain dates during the holidays, and the resumption of HOU-BZE/BOS/LBB/MBJ/RNO nonstop service.

I probably would expect WN to announce some more nonstop routes out of HOU and IAH in addition to the HOU-COS/HDN/MTJ nonstop flights added in today's schedule extension, including HOU-ORD/NAS/PLS and IAH-ATL/STL.

Just because they added new non stops today that not what we were talking about. It was the 50th rally the in Houston next Friday
Last edited by Wneast on Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
iAvgeek737
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:23 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:22 pm

SMF-PSP is def a route I was looking at when I was creating my fictional airline. Glad to see WN actually operating it. I wonder if they will start SMF-SBA? I believe that is a route Contour did but I have no idea how well it ran
 
737max8
Posts: 723
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:24 pm

AC4500 wrote:
737max8 wrote:
Press release is out and has a link to all of the new and returning markets!

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... he-midwest

No mention of PSP-PDX in their press release, but that's probably because it's a Saturday-only route.


Yeah, it's listed in the PDF linked in the press release. If the press release talked about every new and returning market, it would be a Harry Potter length book!
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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iAvgeek737
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:23 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:34 pm

Seems Southwest is joining Allegiant in the fight against Breeze. OKC-MSY and OKC-TPA starting in September
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:44 pm

737max8 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
737max8 wrote:
Press release is out and has a link to all of the new and returning markets!

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... he-midwest

No mention of PSP-PDX in their press release, but that's probably because it's a Saturday-only route.


Yeah, it's listed in the PDF linked in the press release. If the press release talked about every new and returning market, it would be a Harry Potter length book!

Sorry, I don't see any working link in the PR. Could you be more specific as to where it is?

bb
 
AC4500
Posts: 655
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:45 pm

SANFan wrote:
737max8 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
No mention of PSP-PDX in their press release, but that's probably because it's a Saturday-only route.


Yeah, it's listed in the PDF linked in the press release. If the press release talked about every new and returning market, it would be a Harry Potter length book!

Sorry, I don't see any working link in the PR. Could you be more specific as to where it is?

bb

https://wieck-swa-production.s3.amazona ... ension.pdf
Next:
UA: PDX-EWR-DCA
WN: BWI-STL-PDX
 
evank516
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:52 pm

Any word on the resumption of LGA-MCI? That route is picking back up and AA re-launches it in Sept.
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:01 pm

AC4500 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
737max8 wrote:

Yeah, it's listed in the PDF linked in the press release. If the press release talked about every new and returning market, it would be a Harry Potter length book!

Sorry, I don't see any working link in the PR. Could you be more specific as to where it is?

bb

https://wieck-swa-production.s3.amazona ... ension.pdf

Thanx, I just found it.

SAN will see a return of MSY (dropped in May 2020) on 11/7 -- permanent I hope -- and a new route to BZN beginning 11/23. AS has just begun serving this route and I'll be curious to see how a WN a/c does in the market... I didn't see any mention of SAN to Cabo or PVR but maybe those are already considered re-started.

bb
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:03 pm

SANFan wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Sorry, I don't see any working link in the PR. Could you be more specific as to where it is?

bb

https://wieck-swa-production.s3.amazona ... ension.pdf

Thanx, I just found it.

SAN will see a return of MSY (dropped in May 2020) on 11/7 -- permanent I hope -- and a new route to BZN beginning 11/23. AS has just begun serving this route and I'll be curious to see how a WN a/c does in the market... I didn't see any mention of SAN to Cabo or PVR but maybe those are already considered re-started.

bb

Hopefully this signals the start of growth in SAN again with this and they new hawaii destinations being added last month. On a side note though it looks like GEG was permanently cut from SAN
 
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SteveXC500
Posts: 675
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:22 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
According to my sources with respect to MSP, while nothing is official, WN is not moving back to the pre-Covid flight schedule like many other stations, so there is some concern and chatter among the workgroups. Currently, they're at 15/18 daily departures. And pre-Covid they averaged 28. It doesn't look like they'll move beyond 18 during peak summer months.


Turning into Boston a bit.
WN admitting defeat to DL/SY?
It’s a shame because I’ve had some really good fares on WN, compared to DL, especially when flying the family. Guess those days may be ending.
Note: I pretty much refuse to fly SY with the nickel and dime fees.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:23 pm

Wneast wrote:
SANFan wrote:
AC4500 wrote:

Thanx, I just found it.

SAN will see a return of MSY (dropped in May 2020) on 11/7 -- permanent I hope -- and a new route to BZN beginning 11/23. AS has just begun serving this route and I'll be curious to see how a WN a/c does in the market... I didn't see any mention of SAN to Cabo or PVR but maybe those are already considered re-started.

bb

Hopefully this signals the start of growth in SAN again with this and they new hawaii destinations being added last month. On a side note though it looks like GEG was permanently cut from SAN


Yeah. Looks like there were a few other permanent cuts around the network. STL-IND and STL-BDL are gone through the end of the schedule. Glad to see STL-SJU picked up though.
All opinions expressed herein are mine and do not represent the views of Cape Air
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:29 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:
WN will fly the fewest flights they have flown from MSP in a handful of years. Down to a whopping 15 weekday departures, well below pre-pandemic levels nearly double that figure. Ouch. Exit strategy? I do get that it's a short time period and can be quite slow, other than the holidays...


av8tiongeek wrote:
According to my sources with respect to MSP, while nothing is official, WN is not moving back to the pre-Covid flight schedule like many other stations, so there is some concern and chatter among the workgroups. Currently, they're at 15/18 daily departures. And pre-Covid they averaged 28. It doesn't look like they'll move beyond 18 during peak summer months.


SteveXC500 wrote:
Turning into Boston a bit.
WN admitting defeat to DL/SY?
It’s a shame because I’ve had some really good fares on WN, compared to DL, especially when flying the family. Guess those days may be ending.
Note: I pretty much refuse to fly SY with the nickel and dime fees.


In Nov/Dec 2021 (as of today's schedule extension), WN still has daily MSP-BWI/MDW/DAL/DEN/PHX/BNA nonstop service, MSP-AUS/HOU/STL nonstop service on weekdays and Sundays, and MSP-MCO/RSW nonstop service on Saturdays (starting on 11/20/2021).

WN had already permanently cut MSP-MCI/OAK nonstop service due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

WN is also down to 1x MSP-BWI, 4x MSP-MDW, 4x MSP-DEN, 1x MSP-BNA, 1x MSP-PHX, and 1x MSP-BNA on weekdays in Nov/Dec 2021.

I can understand the cuts that WN has made on MSP-DEN, especially with the nonstop and 1-stop connecting options that are still there to the Western U.S. out of MSP on DL, SY, UA, AS, NK, F9, and AA.

I can also understand WN having less nonstop service to MDW from MSP with O&D demand to MDW being significantly weaker from most of the Midwestern destinations with WN nonstop service to MDW than was the case prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

WN re-adding MSP-ATL nonstop service and increasing MSP-LAS nonstop service to daily year-round nonstop service are possibilities if demand warrants additional WN flights out of MSP.
 
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SteveXC500
Posts: 675
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:35 pm

jplatts wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:
WN will fly the fewest flights they have flown from MSP in a handful of years. Down to a whopping 15 weekday departures, well below pre-pandemic levels nearly double that figure. Ouch. Exit strategy? I do get that it's a short time period and can be quite slow, other than the holidays...


av8tiongeek wrote:
According to my sources with respect to MSP, while nothing is official, WN is not moving back to the pre-Covid flight schedule like many other stations, so there is some concern and chatter among the workgroups. Currently, they're at 15/18 daily departures. And pre-Covid they averaged 28. It doesn't look like they'll move beyond 18 during peak summer months.


SteveXC500 wrote:
Turning into Boston a bit.
WN admitting defeat to DL/SY?
It’s a shame because I’ve had some really good fares on WN, compared to DL, especially when flying the family. Guess those days may be ending.
Note: I pretty much refuse to fly SY with the nickel and dime fees.


In Nov/Dec 2021 (as of today's schedule extension), WN still has daily MSP-BWI/MDW/DAL/DEN/PHX/BNA nonstop service, MSP-AUS/HOU/STL nonstop service on weekdays and Sundays, and MSP-MCO/RSW nonstop service on Saturdays (starting on 11/20/2021).

WN had already permanently cut MSP-MCI/OAK nonstop service due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

WN is also down to 1x MSP-BWI, 4x MSP-MDW, 4x MSP-DEN, 1x MSP-BNA, 1x MSP-PHX, and 1x MSP-BNA on weekdays in Nov/Dec 2021.

I can understand the cuts that WN has made on MSP-DEN, especially with the nonstop and 1-stop connecting options that are still there to the Western U.S. out of MSP on DL, SY, UA, AS, NK, F9, and AA.

I can also understand WN having less nonstop service to MDW from MSP with O&D demand to MDW being significantly weaker from most of the Midwestern destinations with WN nonstop service to MDW than was the case prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

WN re-adding MSP-ATL nonstop service and increasing MSP-LAS nonstop service to daily year-round nonstop service are possibilities if demand warrants additional WN flights out of MSP.


You don't say? Everyone knows all of the above. Please provide something more insightful or with sources of information that may actually come true, not "possibilities."
 
737max8
Posts: 723
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:44 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:
WN will fly the fewest flights they have flown from MSP in a handful of years. Down to a whopping 15 weekday departures, well below pre-pandemic levels nearly double that figure. Ouch. Exit strategy? I do get that it's a short time period and can be quite slow, other than the holidays...


av8tiongeek wrote:
According to my sources with respect to MSP, while nothing is official, WN is not moving back to the pre-Covid flight schedule like many other stations, so there is some concern and chatter among the workgroups. Currently, they're at 15/18 daily departures. And pre-Covid they averaged 28. It doesn't look like they'll move beyond 18 during peak summer months.


SteveXC500 wrote:
Turning into Boston a bit.
WN admitting defeat to DL/SY?
It’s a shame because I’ve had some really good fares on WN, compared to DL, especially when flying the family. Guess those days may be ending.
Note: I pretty much refuse to fly SY with the nickel and dime fees.


In Nov/Dec 2021 (as of today's schedule extension), WN still has daily MSP-BWI/MDW/DAL/DEN/PHX/BNA nonstop service, MSP-AUS/HOU/STL nonstop service on weekdays and Sundays, and MSP-MCO/RSW nonstop service on Saturdays (starting on 11/20/2021).

WN had already permanently cut MSP-MCI/OAK nonstop service due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

WN is also down to 1x MSP-BWI, 4x MSP-MDW, 4x MSP-DEN, 1x MSP-BNA, 1x MSP-PHX, and 1x MSP-BNA on weekdays in Nov/Dec 2021.

I can understand the cuts that WN has made on MSP-DEN, especially with the nonstop and 1-stop connecting options that are still there to the Western U.S. out of MSP on DL, SY, UA, AS, NK, F9, and AA.

I can also understand WN having less nonstop service to MDW from MSP with O&D demand to MDW being significantly weaker from most of the Midwestern destinations with WN nonstop service to MDW than was the case prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

WN re-adding MSP-ATL nonstop service and increasing MSP-LAS nonstop service to daily year-round nonstop service are possibilities if demand warrants additional WN flights out of MSP.


You don't say? Everyone knows all of the above. Please provide something more insightful or with sources of information that may actually come true, not "possibilities."


MSP-CPT and MSP-GIG are possibilities if demand warrants additional WN flights out of MSP.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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jplatts
Posts: 4526
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:51 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:
You don't say? Everyone knows all of the above. Please provide something more insightful or with sources of information that may actually come true, not "possibilities."


Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of MSP in March 2021:
BNA-MSP - 772 passengers, 858 seats, 89.98% load factor
BWI-MSP - 818 passengers, 858 seats, 95.34% load factor
DEN-MSP - 22410 passengers, 27111 seats, 82.66% load factor
HOU-MSP - 5375 passengers, 7222 seats, 74.43% load factor
LAS-MSP - 6839 passengers, 7771 seats, 88.01% load factor
MCO-MSP - 9351 passengers, 10543 seats, 88.69% load factor
MDW-MSP - 27644 passengers, 33892 seats, 81.56% load factor
MSP-PHX - 13324 passengers, 14564 seats, 91.49% load factor
MSP-RSW - 5856 passengers, 7120 seats, 82.25% load factor
MSP-SAN - 2519 passengers, 5263 seats, 47.86% load factor
MSP-TPA - 1688 passengers, 1812 seats, 93.16% load factor
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2679
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:07 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
Mexicana757 wrote:
WN added MDW-PSP starts November 21.

ORD-CUN added joining AA, UA, F9 and NK on the route.


I don't see MDW-PSP.

It's in the WN website route tool area, click list view and you can see it in the drop down when you click MDW.
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:20 pm

Mexicana757 wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
Mexicana757 wrote:
WN added MDW-PSP starts November 21.

ORD-CUN added joining AA, UA, F9 and NK on the route.


I don't see MDW-PSP.

It's in the WN website route tool area, click list view and you can see it in the drop down when you click MDW.


Thank you. I found it.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7411
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:42 pm

WN732 wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
alot of weird ones like BUF SJU, AUS HRL, SAT COS

They added OKC to TPA and MSY which are new breeze routes

many of these flights maybe temporarily for Christmas??

https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/140 ... 71718?s=20


They flew AUS-HRL before the pandemic.


AUS-HRL is a real OG WN route. They have flown that since the 1970s.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26606
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:20 pm

A lot of these adds are only for very few select days around Thanksgiving and Christmas and New Years. Stuff like OKCTPA, MIAPIT, COSSAT and others, they'll only operate a small handful of round-trips.
a.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4526
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:13 pm

Abeam79 wrote:
What bingo? You think B6 with Schumer as their defacto ops manager in the NY region is going to have his baby project that is B6 be giving favors away to WN in none other than JFK? WN in JFK will not offer more than what they offer in LGA. WN doing Longer haul out of JFK will be a repeat of what happened in Newark, proably even worse with just a hanful of slots that won't be near to compete with the B6/DL/AA mass service they offer there.


There are a few within-LGA perimeter markets served nonstop by WN such as MSY, MCO, and TPA that have stronger O&D demand (higher PDEW's) from JFK than from LGA, but both DL and B6 already serve MSY, MCO, and TPA nonstop from JFK.

The other within-LGA perimeter markets that WN serves nonstop from LGA have stronger O&D demand (higher PDEW's) from LGA than from JFK.

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors of WN nonstop routes out of EWR in 2019:
EWR-MDW - 321680 passengers, 412756 seats, 77.93% load factor
BNA-EWR - 154143 passengers, 211022 seats, 73.05% load factor
EWR-STL - 137480 passengers, 171948 seats, 79.95% load factor
DEN-EWR - 123463 passengers, 143737 seats, 85.90% load factor
AUS-EWR - 100949 passengers, 124295 seats, 81.22% load factor
EWR-PHX - 84901 passengers, 93117 seats, 91.18% load factor
EWR-FLL - 31256 passengers, 34783 seats, 89.86% load factor
EWR-SAN - 31003 passengers, 40643 seats, 76.28% load factor
EWR-OAK - 25628 passengers, 35130 seats, 72.95% load factor
BWI-EWR - 10523 passengers, 17017 seats, 61.84% load factor
EWR-MCO - 8178 passengers, 9154 seats, 89.34% load factor
EWR-IND - 1422 passengers, 1940 seats, 73.30% load factor

PHX and AUS are both outside of the LGA perimeter, and WN had higher load factors on EWR-PHX than on any of its other nonstop routes out of EWR in 2019. WN also had decent load factors on EWR-AUS in 2019.

WN re-entering EWR or adding service to JFK might be a possibility if WN wants to re-add daily nonstop service to NYC from AUS and PHX. WN re-adding Saturday-only LGA-PHX nonstop service and adding Saturday-only LGA-AUS nonstop service are also possibilities.

There are also a few more within-LGA perimeter nonstop routes such as LGA-ORD/CMH that could be added by WN out of LGA if WN acquires extra slots at LGA. WN increasing nonstop service to MDW, DEN, HOU, BNA, and STL from LGA are also possibilities if WN acquires extra slots at LGA.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:51 pm

IF..IF ...IF.....but none of it it anywhere near a certainty. It doesn't look good for spirits case with the DOJ just to get more LGA slots, how is WN expected to get any more? There aren't any bids and there aren't divestures for LGA currently.
All those numbers from EWR look great..one problem...WN pulled out cause they were losing money there. They can't command a yield premium against UA/B6/and in a much smaller case with the few NK markets they competed with at the time. WN does ok with what type service out of LGA. But as far as getting more slots that are no where on the market, they may have to wait later down the road.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:27 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
According to my sources with respect to MSP, while nothing is official, WN is not moving back to the pre-Covid flight schedule like many other stations, so there is some concern and chatter among the workgroups. Currently, they're at 15/18 daily departures. And pre-Covid they averaged 28. It doesn't look like they'll move beyond 18 during peak summer months.

So if I am understanding your innuendo from your “sources”, MSP is potentially on the chopping block?? LOL!! It appears that SWA is in full growth mode and I can’t believe that MSP isn’t a part of the future. When SWA has the airplanes to add back service, I bet they will. I hate rumors from sources
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:31 pm

jplatts wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
What bingo? You think B6 with Schumer as their defacto ops manager in the NY region is going to have his baby project that is B6 be giving favors away to WN in none other than JFK? WN in JFK will not offer more than what they offer in LGA. WN doing Longer haul out of JFK will be a repeat of what happened in Newark, proably even worse with just a hanful of slots that won't be near to compete with the B6/DL/AA mass service they offer there.


There are a few within-LGA perimeter markets served nonstop by WN such as MSY, MCO, and TPA that have stronger O&D demand (higher PDEW's) from JFK than from LGA, but both DL and B6 already serve MSY, MCO, and TPA nonstop from JFK.

The other within-LGA perimeter markets that WN serves nonstop from LGA have stronger O&D demand (higher PDEW's) from LGA than from JFK.

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors of WN nonstop routes out of EWR in 2019:
EWR-MDW - 321680 passengers, 412756 seats, 77.93% load factor
BNA-EWR - 154143 passengers, 211022 seats, 73.05% load factor
EWR-STL - 137480 passengers, 171948 seats, 79.95% load factor
DEN-EWR - 123463 passengers, 143737 seats, 85.90% load factor
AUS-EWR - 100949 passengers, 124295 seats, 81.22% load factor
EWR-PHX - 84901 passengers, 93117 seats, 91.18% load factor
EWR-FLL - 31256 passengers, 34783 seats, 89.86% load factor
EWR-SAN - 31003 passengers, 40643 seats, 76.28% load factor
EWR-OAK - 25628 passengers, 35130 seats, 72.95% load factor
BWI-EWR - 10523 passengers, 17017 seats, 61.84% load factor
EWR-MCO - 8178 passengers, 9154 seats, 89.34% load factor
EWR-IND - 1422 passengers, 1940 seats, 73.30% load factor

PHX and AUS are both outside of the LGA perimeter, and WN had higher load factors on EWR-PHX than on any of its other nonstop routes out of EWR in 2019. WN also had decent load factors on EWR-AUS in 2019.

WN re-entering EWR or adding service to JFK might be a possibility if WN wants to re-add daily nonstop service to NYC from AUS and PHX. WN re-adding Saturday-only LGA-PHX nonstop service and adding Saturday-only LGA-AUS nonstop service are also possibilities.

There are also a few more within-LGA perimeter nonstop routes such as LGA-ORD/CMH that could be added by WN out of LGA if WN acquires extra slots at LGA. WN increasing nonstop service to MDW, DEN, HOU, BNA, and STL from LGA are also possibilities if WN acquires extra slots at LGA.

Please STOP using 2019 numbers!! This is not the same as then! Business traffic is way off right now and depending on some markets, so is vacation travel. It is comparable to comparing apples to giraffes, impossible right now
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:52 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
According to my sources with respect to MSP, while nothing is official, WN is not moving back to the pre-Covid flight schedule like many other stations, so there is some concern and chatter among the workgroups. Currently, they're at 15/18 daily departures. And pre-Covid they averaged 28. It doesn't look like they'll move beyond 18 during peak summer months.

So if I am understanding your innuendo from your “sources”, MSP is potentially on the chopping block?? LOL!! It appears that SWA is in full growth mode and I can’t believe that MSP isn’t a part of the future. When SWA has the airplanes to add back service, I bet they will. I hate rumors from sources


I'm not suggesting anything at all. I was hoping someone had more insight. LOL!!! The sources are ground personnel for WN.
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 792
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:34 am

A couple things for people to consider when dissecting this schedule.

1. Business traffic is down significantly so markets like LAX-SMF and other short hauls won’t be back to pre-Covid frequencies for a while.

2. WN is short on airframes to return to pre-Covid flight activity in some stations due to opening many new destinations and routes since last year.
 
User avatar
SteveXC500
Posts: 675
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:32 am

av8tiongeek wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
According to my sources with respect to MSP, while nothing is official, WN is not moving back to the pre-Covid flight schedule like many other stations, so there is some concern and chatter among the workgroups. Currently, they're at 15/18 daily departures. And pre-Covid they averaged 28. It doesn't look like they'll move beyond 18 during peak summer months.

So if I am understanding your innuendo from your “sources”, MSP is potentially on the chopping block?? LOL!! It appears that SWA is in full growth mode and I can’t believe that MSP isn’t a part of the future. When SWA has the airplanes to add back service, I bet they will. I hate rumors from sources



I'm not suggesting anything at all. I was hoping someone had more insight. LOL!!! The sources are ground personnel for WN.


Sources aside, why would WN drop MSP to 15 departures? That’s the lowest in years! It’s either a sign of doom (prob not likely) or, at minimum it is a sign that they aren’t a high performing airport and will be a minimally-serviced station.
I personally cannot believe they can’t support LAS year round, for example.
 
smflyer
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:11 am

iAvgeek737 wrote:
SMF-PSP is def a route I was looking at when I was creating my fictional airline. Glad to see WN actually operating it. I wonder if they will start SMF-SBA? I believe that is a route Contour did but I have no idea how well it ran
.

Yes Contour did operate the SMF-SBA route and was reported that it was quite a successful route for them. They launched the route with 1x E145 service and quickly jumped up the frequency to 2x daily reporting nearly always full flights. I believe the Express Jet did also serve the route with similar equipment backing in circa 2007 pre-financial crisis but they stopped all non contracted flying after the financial crisis. The SMF-SBA market is definitely there, but the route was more so used by business travelers rather than leisure, so this may be the reason WN is holding back on this route for the time being as leisure is roaring back right now and business demand will come back a little slower. I can see this route being serve 1x daily by WN starting early 2022. If there are enough connecting opportunities out of SMF, WN can increase frequency even more. (connect SBA to SEA, PDX, GEG, BOI, etc). I realize those cities can be easily connected via OAK, but WN tends to spread out their connect-ability between different stations throughout their network to support service that can't always be standalone p2p routes allowing more available routes and city pairs.
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 792
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:14 am

SteveXC500 wrote:
av8tiongeek wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
So if I am understanding your innuendo from your “sources”, MSP is potentially on the chopping block?? LOL!! It appears that SWA is in full growth mode and I can’t believe that MSP isn’t a part of the future. When SWA has the airplanes to add back service, I bet they will. I hate rumors from sources



I'm not suggesting anything at all. I was hoping someone had more insight. LOL!!! The sources are ground personnel for WN.


Sources aside, why would WN drop MSP to 15 departures? That’s the lowest in years! It’s either a sign of doom (prob not likely) or, at minimum it is a sign that they aren’t a high performing airport and will be a minimally-serviced station.
I personally cannot believe they can’t support LAS year round, for example.


I imagine they are short on frames at the moment due to all of the recent adds and their margins from the flights cut at MSP (I’m guessing) weren’t worth adding back. Once they start building their fleet back up next year with the 64 or so MAX 7s (and possible delay in aircraft retirements depending on the recovery), stations like MSP might see more luv.
 
Delta28L
Posts: 441
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:16 am

I like the fact that they added PIT-MIA for the holiday. I could see them adding Saturday only service to Mia from PIT since AA runs one daily flight through out the week.
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:22 am

WN should add GEG-PSP and AUS next
 
jplatts
Posts: 4526
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:36 am

OKCDCA wrote:
I’m shocked to see OKC. Even more shocked to see TUL. But AA has built a pretty good network out of OKC at a time when WN got stagnant. WN has already responded to Breeze in OKC, will be interesting to see if they respond to AA.

And I never thought I’d say one carrier is responding to another in OKC!


I do not expect WN to re-add OKC-DAL nonstop service anytime soon since the PDEW of OKC-DAL was only 28 passengers/day in Q4 2019 and since the COVID-19 pandemic further weakened O&D demand between the DFW/DAL and OKC markets. The PDEW of OKC-DFW was only 12 passengers/day in Q4 2020 compared to a PDEW of 104 passengers/day on OKC-DFW/DAL in Q4 2019 and a PDEW of 60 passengers/day on OKC-DFW in Q1 2020.

If WN wants to better compete against AA in the OKC market, WN adding OKC-FLL/LAX nonstop service might be possibilities with the MIA/FLL and LAX markets having much stronger demand from OKC than the DFW/DAL or AUS markets. WN increasing OKC-MDW nonstop service is also a possibility with WN currently only operating 1x daily nonstop between OKC and MDW along with the FF base that WN has in both the CHI and OKC markets.

While SAT currently lacks nonstop service out of OKC, OKC-SAT had higher PDEW's in Q4 2019 than OKC-DAL or OKC-AUS did, with the PDEW of OKC-SAT being 58 passengers/day in Q4 2019 compared to a PDEW of 43 passengers/day on OKC-AUS or a PDEW of 28 passengers/day on OKC-DAL in Q4 2019.
 
Western727
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:32 pm

Wneast wrote:
WN should add GEG-PSP and AUS next


Why, out of curiosity? AUS is a mid-sized city, yes, but GEG is quite small with a metro pop of just over half a million.
Jack @ AUS
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6117
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:35 pm

I wouldn't get too worked up about XYZ station getting fewer frequencies in this extension, if we've learned anything over the last year and a half, it's that WN likes to add flights in the schedule as you get closer to the actual departure date.

If demand warrants it, more frequencies will be added closer in.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
OAHU747
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:37 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:48 pm

In this release, why would WN reduce so many flights during the Christmas season as compared to the slower SEP/OCT season? Numerous stations lose a significant amount of flights during December.
My posts and opinions are mine only and are not from or representative of Southwest Airlines.
 
Western727
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:18 pm

OAHU747 wrote:
In this release, why would WN reduce so many flights during the Christmas season as compared to the slower SEP/OCT season? Numerous stations lose a significant amount of flights during December.


I didn't realize that, thanks for pointing that out. Are you referring to "just" the first couple weeks of December, though, or does your observation also apply to the holidays period starting on roughly 15 Dec? In the case of the latter, that'd be very surprising, given the fairly clear appetite for travel. After all, many of us lost the chance to be with relatives during the last winter holiday period.
Jack @ AUS
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:40 pm

Western727 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
WN should add GEG-PSP and AUS next


Why, out of curiosity? AUS is a mid-sized city, yes, but GEG is quite small with a metro pop of just over half a million.

Actually the area around it and is almost a million
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 599
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:55 pm

..and besides, AS would be the one to add GEG-AUS, since they added BOI-AUS it's their type of route LOL .
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
jplatts
Posts: 4526
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:37 pm

Western727 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
WN should add GEG-PSP and AUS next


Why, out of curiosity? AUS is a mid-sized city, yes, but GEG is quite small with a metro pop of just over half a million.


sprxUSA wrote:
..and besides, AS would be the one to add GEG-AUS, since they added BOI-AUS it's their type of route LOL .


If WN were to add nonstop service to Texas from GEG, I probably would expect WN to add GEG-DAL or GEG-HOU nonstop service with the DFW/DAL and IAH/HOU markets having higher PDEW's from GEG than AUS along with there being more connecting opportunities available at DAL or HOU on WN.

AS or AA could add GEG-AUS nonstop service using E-175 regional jets, and both AA and AS have operated E-175 regional jets on routes longer than GEG-AUS with AA having operated DFW-EUG using E-175 regional jets (which has been recently upgauged to A319 mainline aircraft) and AS having operated DAL-PDX/SEA nonstop service using E-175 regional jets.

AS or AA would also be able to more easily fill GEG-AUS nonstop flights on E-175 regional jets, compared to WN who would have to fill a 143-seat 737-700 to make GEG-AUS nonstop service work.
 
User avatar
psa1011
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:40 pm

Any ideas on when OAK-SJD/PVR might return?
 
Buffalomatt1027
Posts: 454
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:02 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:58 am

USAirALB wrote:
BUF-SJU is added. Interesting route!


weirdly enough .... its going to do well for seasonal. TONS of people in Buffalo (and parts of canada) fly to down to warmer climate during the winter.

The cancun and punta cana seasonal flights have been going on for 3-4 years now maybe and have done great.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3734
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:57 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
The Hardstand gates we're always going to be temporary until the HA moved into it's new Home.
Yes the Diamond head concourse is next to get a complete refurbishment. Starting in 2022.

Enjoy or Don't
Flyguy

Do you know how many gates they will be taking over from Hawaiian when they move over to there new home ?


I’d assume HA will move all their mainland flights out of C and D into the new concourse so there will be more room on C open which. Apparently WNs move into E has already shuffled some things around as AA has moved the majority of their flights into Gates C1 and C3 with overflow remaining in E. Perhaps AA will consolidate in C once HA moves mainland ops out allowing more room in E for WN.


The new Mauka extension to T1 will have 12 gates for 12 narrowbodies. If a widebody is parked there, an adjoining gate will have to be closed, like is currently done at the A gates in T1. This and no FIS being built at Mauka, means that HAL will not be able to totally vacate the C gates. Despite the cute predictions of some here, it doesn't mean total takeover by other carriers of the C gates. All this means is HAL will no longer have to stretch its operation to the end of E and occasionally F and G with the opening of Mauka. I predict the 321/717 operation will dominate T1 with an occasional 330/787. The majority of 330/787s will remain at C, especially when international flying resumes in force.
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:01 am

azjubilee wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Do you know how many gates they will be taking over from Hawaiian when they move over to there new home ?


I’d assume HA will move all their mainland flights out of C and D into the new concourse so there will be more room on C open which. Apparently WNs move into E has already shuffled some things around as AA has moved the majority of their flights into Gates C1 and C3 with overflow remaining in E. Perhaps AA will consolidate in C once HA moves mainland ops out allowing more room in E for WN.


The new Mauka extension to T1 will have 12 gates for 12 narrowbodies. If a widebody is parked there, an adjoining gate will have to be closed, like is currently done at the A gates in T1. This and no FIS being built at Mauka, means that HAL will not be able to totally vacate the C gates. Despite the cute predictions of some here, it doesn't mean total takeover by other carriers of the C gates. All this means is HAL will no longer have to stretch its operation to the end of E and occasionally F and G with the opening of Mauka. I predict the 321/717 operation will dominate T1 with an occasional 330/787. The majority of 330/787s will remain at C, especially when international flying resumes in force.

Will now it’s doesn’t seem to be a issue because it’s looks WN is mainly using the E gates so if they vacate some of those then WN can grow in the E terminal and have there whole operations in those gates
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:32 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:38 am

Wneast wrote:
azjubilee wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:

I’d assume HA will move all their mainland flights out of C and D into the new concourse so there will be more room on C open which. Apparently WNs move into E has already shuffled some things around as AA has moved the majority of their flights into Gates C1 and C3 with overflow remaining in E. Perhaps AA will consolidate in C once HA moves mainland ops out allowing more room in E for WN.


The new Mauka extension to T1 will have 12 gates for 12 narrowbodies. If a widebody is parked there, an adjoining gate will have to be closed, like is currently done at the A gates in T1. This and no FIS being built at Mauka, means that HAL will not be able to totally vacate the C gates. Despite the cute predictions of some here, it doesn't mean total takeover by other carriers of the C gates. All this means is HAL will no longer have to stretch its operation to the end of E and occasionally F and G with the opening of Mauka. I predict the 321/717 operation will dominate T1 with an occasional 330/787. The majority of 330/787s will remain at C, especially when international flying resumes in force.

Will now it’s doesn’t seem to be a issue because it’s looks WN is mainly using the E gates so if they vacate some of those then WN can grow in the E terminal and have there whole operations in those gates


It looks like WN moving into E at HNL has came at the expense of AA who has moved almost all their flights to C now with none arriving in E yesterday. This should help with the COVID safe travels lines as well as neither AA nor DL offerer the Hawaii pre-clear wristbands and when both were arriving at E, the arrival checkpoint lines in E were crazy while C and G had hardly no line due to all the other airlines offering the wristbands. AA moving to C should help with the lines upon arrival.
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:41 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
azjubilee wrote:

The new Mauka extension to T1 will have 12 gates for 12 narrowbodies. If a widebody is parked there, an adjoining gate will have to be closed, like is currently done at the A gates in T1. This and no FIS being built at Mauka, means that HAL will not be able to totally vacate the C gates. Despite the cute predictions of some here, it doesn't mean total takeover by other carriers of the C gates. All this means is HAL will no longer have to stretch its operation to the end of E and occasionally F and G with the opening of Mauka. I predict the 321/717 operation will dominate T1 with an occasional 330/787. The majority of 330/787s will remain at C, especially when international flying resumes in force.

Will now it’s doesn’t seem to be a issue because it’s looks WN is mainly using the E gates so if they vacate some of those then WN can grow in the E terminal and have there whole operations in those gates


It looks like WN moving into E at HNL has came at the expense of AA who has moved almost all their flights to C. This should help with the COVID safe travels lines as well as neither AA nor DL offerer the Hawaii pre-clear wristbands and both were arriving at E, causing crazy lines. AA moving to C should help with the lines upon arrival.

Seems reasonable with WN growing there HNL and whole hawaii operation that they make room for WN to expand in probably use most of the gates there when Hawaiian leaves right ? It’s probably also because AA do they even offer enough flights to need more then 1 and half gates. How many potential gates could WN be moving in on ?

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