Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
n515cr wrote:8309 set to enter revenue service 6/26: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n309du
3232 en route to SAL
3131 exit cancelled. Reboot TBD
3248 exit on track
3257 showing exit SBD-MSP tomorrow (final 320 in storage): https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n357nw
IFC
3004 on track to RTS later today
3007 is in the air
3084 RTS still showing tomorrow
3092 showing RTS 6/26
3093 should enter ATL for mods tomorrow night
3048 in MSP for mods
orlandoguy wrote:Are there any plans to do anything about the 757-300 interiors, such as the new sidewalls, pivot bins, and mood lighting like on the 757-200s? Flew on one last week and with the exception of the seats/IFE it was looking pretty tired. The one I flew before that last month still had the old-style IFE.
n515cr wrote:3845 entry and 3902 exit @ QRO cancelled
3131 showing exit BHM-SAL on 6/28
9525 should have a fairly imminent RTS
flyboy80 wrote:I doubt they will be doing anything with them anytime soon. I think given the A330 and 767 PS modifications, Viasat mods etc, they are close to maximum on what they are going to put money into regarding updating interiors over the next couple of years.
You are certainly right, the 753 is getting very tired inside as are the 738s, and even some of the worn looking 757s. There are several Airbus 319 and 320, that despite full interior modifications 5 or 6 years ago, are also looking increasingly worn down.
I would like to see them reconfigure the A321ceo to a similar galley configuration as the neo. It won't be easy on catering to have two massive fleets of the same airplane flying around. Despite different floor plans due to door locations, It would make some sense, perhaps operationally vs economically, to standardize those types seat plans for swaps.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:n515cr wrote:3845 entry and 3902 exit @ QRO cancelled
3131 showing exit BHM-SAL on 6/28
9525 should have a fairly imminent RTS
Cool...I remember there was another 717 out there that was ferried out of storage....been in maintenance in ATL for several weeks. The active fleet is at 52.
n515cr wrote:8309 entered revenue service today
3257 exit on a rolling delay.
3902 exit punted to tomorrow
3845 to enter QRO tomorrow: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n845dn
3084 is back in service as of last night
3085 RTS 6/27
3048 to follow 3085
3086 on track to RTS 6/27
3053 to follow 3086
3009 to RTS 6/28
3058 to follow 3009
3082 now appears to be entering MSP tonight
TW870 wrote:TW870 wrote:PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:Cool...I remember there was another 717 out there that was ferried out of storage....been in maintenance in ATL for several weeks. The active fleet is at 52.
n515cr wrote:PSU.DTW.SCE is spot-on about time-out parking. Not sure why 690 and 6706's trips to BHM were cancelled.
3330 now showing its exit tomorrow
9575 is back in service: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n924at
3885 exit QRO tomorrow and RTS: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n885dn
3834 to enter QRO tomorrow: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n834dn
IFC
3045 RTS tomorrow
3085 entered MSP for mods
3004 RTS 6/24
3086 entered DTW for mods
3007 should exit soon
TW870 wrote:TW870 wrote:TW870 wrote:
What is the current plan for total active 717 fleet by the end of 2021? I am guessing that increased demand warrants pulling more out of storage, but I am a bit confused about how many ships Delta permanently removed from the fleet.
Cactusjuba wrote:Did some further digging. By S2022 64 frames, maybe an additional 5 up to 69 total. That info was about 2 months old.
777Mech wrote:Cactusjuba wrote:Did some further digging. By S2022 64 frames, maybe an additional 5 up to 69 total. That info was about 2 months old.
It seems like they're just going to come out and say they won't be retiring them after all, and it may just come down to getting more favorable, short term leases on those.
Lootess wrote:It's not just capacity- it's capacity at PRASM. DL may sit on its hands all day and watch Frontier or Spirit add capacity that gets avg PRASM of $0.07 or $0.08. None of the big 6 can make money at that level, let alone hit target ROIC.777Mech wrote:Cactusjuba wrote:Did some further digging. By S2022 64 frames, maybe an additional 5 up to 69 total. That info was about 2 months old.
It seems like they're just going to come out and say they won't be retiring them after all, and it may just come down to getting more favorable, short term leases on those.
There is the whole short-term domestic capacity boost, one of those situations if you don't cover the capacity, someone else will.
777Mech wrote:Cactusjuba wrote:Did some further digging. By S2022 64 frames, maybe an additional 5 up to 69 total. That info was about 2 months old.
It seems like they're just going to come out and say they won't be retiring them after all, and it may just come down to getting more favorable, short term leases on those.
TW870 wrote:777Mech wrote:Cactusjuba wrote:Did some further digging. By S2022 64 frames, maybe an additional 5 up to 69 total. That info was about 2 months old.
It seems like they're just going to come out and say they won't be retiring them after all, and it may just come down to getting more favorable, short term leases on those.
Thanks for the infor on this Cactusjuba, and also to PSU.DTW.SCE. And yes, it seems like the situation is very fluid. My guess is part of the issue is that in a constrained labor environment with intensifying demand, the goal will be to return to service (or take delivery of) the largest-possible gauge aircraft. They want every pilot or gate agent or mechanic working the largest aircraft appropriate to given markets. I am sure they are trying to activate as many 717s as possible. But the first priority has to be to staffing up the 320, 737, and 757/767 fleets because you get more bang for your buck. If they can hire and train people fast enough (especially with the additional 350s coming into the fleet), then I think they will bump the 717 numbers. I commute for work on MSP-DAY, and the fares are crazy high for the fall. I have a hunch they want to get more metal in those type of markets, and the 717 could certainly bolster such a plan.
n515cr wrote:3238 arrived in ATL. RTS TBD
694 to exit VQQ and RTS tomorrow
665 to take its place at VQQ shortly
3902 RTS pushed to tonight
8114 exit from SBD cancelled
3328 to exit BHM to MSP tomorrow. 2 333s remain in storage, both at VCV.
3718 showing a cancelled exit from QRO tomorrow
Seeing possible 738 movement to QRO tomorrow
3838 showing revenue flights on 7/1. 1st 739 with IFC
IFC
3053 RTS at time of this post
3079 to enter DTW tomorrow
3043 to enter MSP tomorrow
lightsaber wrote:TW870 wrote:777Mech wrote:
It seems like they're just going to come out and say they won't be retiring them after all, and it may just come down to getting more favorable, short term leases on those.
Thanks for the infor on this Cactusjuba, and also to PSU.DTW.SCE. And yes, it seems like the situation is very fluid. My guess is part of the issue is that in a constrained labor environment with intensifying demand, the goal will be to return to service (or take delivery of) the largest-possible gauge aircraft. They want every pilot or gate agent or mechanic working the largest aircraft appropriate to given markets. I am sure they are trying to activate as many 717s as possible. But the first priority has to be to staffing up the 320, 737, and 757/767 fleets because you get more bang for your buck. If they can hire and train people fast enough (especially with the additional 350s coming into the fleet), then I think they will bump the 717 numbers. I commute for work on MSP-DAY, and the fares are crazy high for the fall. I have a hunch they want to get more metal in those type of markets, and the 717 could certainly bolster such a plan.
I agree with trying to upgauge as much as possible on the narrowbodies. I've read every post on the 717 and it is interesting how large a spread in possible operations there could be for S2022. However, good news that it might be far more than I was expecting.
I wonder at the engine green time. The more the 717s are flown early, the less engine green time remaining. That would be an interesting chart to watch the engine green time frade towards zero. (Of course, DL would never publish that.)
Lightsaber
n515cr wrote:n515cr wrote:3238 arrived in ATL. RTS TBD
694 to exit VQQ and RTS tomorrow
665 to take its place at VQQ shortly
3902 RTS pushed to tonight
8114 exit from SBD cancelled
3328 to exit BHM to MSP tomorrow. 2 333s remain in storage, both at VCV.
3718 showing a cancelled exit from QRO tomorrow
Seeing possible 738 movement to QRO tomorrow
3838 showing revenue flights on 7/1. 1st 739 with IFC
IFC
3053 RTS at time of this post
3079 to enter DTW tomorrow
3043 to enter MSP tomorrow
8114 has indeed exited storage
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:n515cr wrote:3845 entry and 3902 exit @ QRO cancelled
3131 showing exit BHM-SAL on 6/28
9525 should have a fairly imminent RTS
Cool...I remember there was another 717 out there that was ferried out of storage....been in maintenance in ATL for several weeks. The active fleet is at 52.flyboy80 wrote:I doubt they will be doing anything with them anytime soon. I think given the A330 and 767 PS modifications, Viasat mods etc, they are close to maximum on what they are going to put money into regarding updating interiors over the next couple of years.
You are certainly right, the 753 is getting very tired inside as are the 738s, and even some of the worn looking 757s. There are several Airbus 319 and 320, that despite full interior modifications 5 or 6 years ago, are also looking increasingly worn down.
I would like to see them reconfigure the A321ceo to a similar galley configuration as the neo. It won't be easy on catering to have two massive fleets of the same airplane flying around. Despite different floor plans due to door locations, It would make some sense, perhaps operationally vs economically, to standardize those types seat plans for swaps.
The 753s were mod'ed in 2014. Similar timeframe to the 752s.
I have been on a ton of 752s this year and they all seem to be in just fine shape. Ironically, I'm on a 753 tomorrow for the first time in maybe 2 years.
How much of these is just cleaning/cosmetic stuff that gets taken care of during deep cleaning or heavy maintenance for when they change out carpet and seat covers versus needed a full mod?
I'll give my opinion after I fly one tomorrow.
I still get on flights often where unsuspecting passengers marvel and think they are on a brand new airplane getting on A319 (and near 30-year old) A320s.
lightsaber wrote:TW870 wrote:777Mech wrote:
It seems like they're just going to come out and say they won't be retiring them after all, and it may just come down to getting more favorable, short term leases on those.
Thanks for the infor on this Cactusjuba, and also to PSU.DTW.SCE. And yes, it seems like the situation is very fluid. My guess is part of the issue is that in a constrained labor environment with intensifying demand, the goal will be to return to service (or take delivery of) the largest-possible gauge aircraft. They want every pilot or gate agent or mechanic working the largest aircraft appropriate to given markets. I am sure they are trying to activate as many 717s as possible. But the first priority has to be to staffing up the 320, 737, and 757/767 fleets because you get more bang for your buck. If they can hire and train people fast enough (especially with the additional 350s coming into the fleet), then I think they will bump the 717 numbers. I commute for work on MSP-DAY, and the fares are crazy high for the fall. I have a hunch they want to get more metal in those type of markets, and the 717 could certainly bolster such a plan.
I agree with trying to upgauge as much as possible on the narrowbodies. I've read every post on the 717 and it is interesting how large a spread in possible operations there could be for S2022. However, good news that it might be far more than I was expecting.
I wonder at the engine green time. The more the 717s are flown early, the less engine green time remaining. That would be an interesting chart to watch the engine green time frade towards zero. (Of course, DL would never publish that.)
Lightsaber
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:n515cr wrote:3845 entry and 3902 exit @ QRO cancelled
3131 showing exit BHM-SAL on 6/28
9525 should have a fairly imminent RTS
Cool...I remember there was another 717 out there that was ferried out of storage....been in maintenance in ATL for several weeks. The active fleet is at 52.flyboy80 wrote:I doubt they will be doing anything with them anytime soon. I think given the A330 and 767 PS modifications, Viasat mods etc, they are close to maximum on what they are going to put money into regarding updating interiors over the next couple of years.
You are certainly right, the 753 is getting very tired inside as are the 738s, and even some of the worn looking 757s. There are several Airbus 319 and 320, that despite full interior modifications 5 or 6 years ago, are also looking increasingly worn down.
I would like to see them reconfigure the A321ceo to a similar galley configuration as the neo. It won't be easy on catering to have two massive fleets of the same airplane flying around. Despite different floor plans due to door locations, It would make some sense, perhaps operationally vs economically, to standardize those types seat plans for swaps.
The 753s were mod'ed in 2014. Similar timeframe to the 752s.
I have been on a ton of 752s this year and they all seem to be in just fine shape. Ironically, I'm on a 753 tomorrow for the first time in maybe 2 years.
How much of these is just cleaning/cosmetic stuff that gets taken care of during deep cleaning or heavy maintenance for when they change out carpet and seat covers versus needed a full mod?
I'll give my opinion after I fly one tomorrow.
I still get on flights often where unsuspecting passengers marvel and think they are on a brand new airplane getting on A319 (and near 30-year old) A320s.
Flew in F on a 753 on Monday for the first time in 2 years and frankly only minor differences from the 752. Nothing that really warrants any type of refurb at this point. You are right they didn't replace the sidewalls, bins, or overhead panels like on the 752s, but no one would really notice. Didn't seem dirty or beat-up at all. I thought it had the same generation IFE system as on the 752?
Its not the old-gen one still on some of the 738s and 763s.
Somewhat related, but what is up with the need to reboot the IFE system so frequently? Seems like 75% of the time, they have to reboot the IFE system either on the ground at pushback or just after-take off.
Its happened to me now in recent weeks on 752, 753, A333, B763. The FAs on my flight the other day were joking that they actually had to do a manual safety briefing instead of a video for the first time in forever....(they must not get assigned the 717 much then).
777Mech wrote:Cactusjuba wrote:Did some further digging. By S2022 64 frames, maybe an additional 5 up to 69 total. That info was about 2 months old.
It seems like they're just going to come out and say they won't be retiring them after all, and it may just come down to getting more favorable, short term leases on those.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:I get the sense that DL is bringing back additional 717s in the near-term for a couple of reasons.
1) Some of the parking may have been driven by the pilot training backlog and churn, not too indifferent than the A220 situation, with the giant shuffle for both CA and FOs. The 717 FO tends to be one of the lower seniority categories. 717 wasn't as constrained as A220 training.
2) Needing to "defend" and bulk-up ATL. ATL is still 30% fewer in departures in summer 2021 vs summer 2019. They basically need more 717s to backfill the void of the MD88/90 in ATL as capacity continues to ramp-up. With the direct competition from WN and indirect with AA-CLT there is a need for more seats in markets than RJs. While A220 is backfilling the 717 in NYC, SLC, and some of the Texas stuff, its not backfilling 717 in ATL and DTW.
3) Scope clause implications - DL has to keep its DCI flying in check / proportion with mainline flying
4) All things being equal - probably makes sense to bring back more 717s than CR2s at this point; particularly as frequency at DTW and ATL is less than pre-Covid but increasing going towards larger aircraft on fewer frequency.
DL757NYC wrote:With how rapid travel has returned I won’t be surprised if all return either. DL panicked during COVID gave a bunch of employees packages to leave or retire. And now they are short staffed severely. Same with the fleet sold,retired or parked many aircraft. Now they are bringing them back online.
DL757NYC wrote:777Mech wrote:Cactusjuba wrote:Did some further digging. By S2022 64 frames, maybe an additional 5 up to 69 total. That info was about 2 months old.
It seems like they're just going to come out and say they won't be retiring them after all, and it may just come down to getting more favorable, short term leases on those.
With how rapid travel has returned I won’t be surprised if all return either. DL panicked during COVID gave a bunch of employees packages to leave or retire. And now they are short staffed severely. Same with the fleet sold,retired or parked many aircraft. Now they are bringing them back online.
n515cr wrote:n515cr wrote:n515cr wrote:3238 arrived in ATL. RTS TBD
694 to exit VQQ and RTS tomorrow
665 to take its place at VQQ shortly
3902 RTS pushed to tonight
8114 exit from SBD cancelled
3328 to exit BHM to MSP tomorrow. 2 333s remain in storage, both at VCV.
3718 showing a cancelled exit from QRO tomorrow
Seeing possible 738 movement to QRO tomorrow
3838 showing revenue flights on 7/1. 1st 739 with IFC
IFC
3053 RTS at time of this post
3079 to enter DTW tomorrow
3043 to enter MSP tomorrow
8114 has indeed exited storage
3902 back in service
694 back in service
3238 back in service
8114 RTS this morning
3328 on track for today
3718 monitoring exit
3838 rev flights no longer showing
3330 RTS tomorrow
6823 ferry to QRO tomorrow: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n823dx
3008 entered ATL for IFC
3043 to enter MSP tonight for IFC
3094 should enter ATL soon
jbs2886 wrote:[Well IIRC some have already been returned to the lessor, so unlikely they all return. I also think it’s premature to say DL will need them in the near term. There are new aircraft deliveries and travel is still down double digit percentage points.
WidebodyPTV wrote:jbs2886 wrote:[Well IIRC some have already been returned to the lessor, so unlikely they all return. I also think it’s premature to say DL will need them in the near term. There are new aircraft deliveries and travel is still down double digit percentage points.
Just glancing at the 10K filings, as the 717 were coming off-lease, DL was re-releasing them; the new leases were categorized as capital leases. YOY, most of the planes categorized as operating leases have dropped off the 10K filing, and per WN's 10K, most of the leases were expiring in 2020 and 2021. Thus, most likely DL has returned these planes to Boeing...
n515cr wrote:n515cr wrote:n515cr wrote:
8114 has indeed exited storage
3902 back in service
694 back in service
3238 back in service
8114 RTS this morning
3328 on track for today
3718 monitoring exit
3838 rev flights no longer showing
3330 RTS tomorrow
6823 ferry to QRO tomorrow: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n823dx
3008 entered ATL for IFC
3043 to enter MSP tonight for IFC
3094 should enter ATL soon
3082 RTS now
3006 RTS tomorrow
3094 should be good to enter ATL after 3006
777Mech wrote:That's not to say they can't be leased again if needed. While it's likely that won't happen, it's a possibility. I wonder if they could get even more favorable leasing terms if they so choose to change their mind and fly them for longer.
n515cr wrote:8114 RTS late last night
3328 exit from BHM delayed
3171 ferry BHM-MSP today but now showing cancelled
6823 to ferry ATL-QRO later today
6083 to ferry SBD-QRO at some point today (seeing conflicting flight times)
650 to ferry BFI-QRO tomorrow
663 appears to be exiting QRO soon
3330 RTS cancelled
3838 TBD
3718 TBD
IFC
3006 RTS this morning
3008 and 3048 to RTS 7/3
3005 to enter MSP 7/2