193 has been at MCI for mx since 06/07, so I'm curious, as 186,191 and 196 have all gone to CAN for heavy mx, what kind of mx she might be getting there, or perhaps she is the second ship to get the cabin mods following 1708?

dtwpilot225 wrote:

Does anyone know the delivery schedule for the remaining a330-900? And where these aircraft will most likely be utilized?
Thanks

I would expect up to 8 more to be delivered next year, but, as always, it will depend on when DL needs them. I'm sure that AIrbus can accomodate DL's needs and can prioritize production for them as needed.

audidudi wrote:

193 has been at MCI for mx since 06/07, so I'm curious, as 186,191 and 196 have all gone to CAN for heavy mx, what kind of mx she might be getting there, or perhaps she is the second ship to get the cabin mods following 1708?

I'm told that 193 is not getting the new cabin; it's just there for scheduled maintenance.

Sorry if this was discussed earlier. What domestic routes is DL deploying the A350 on? Does SLC receive any?

I mentioned back in March that they had it deployed on SLC>ATL a few times a day between April 10 and April 29. Nothing recently though, seems that they're mostly rotating between ATL/DTW and AMS/CDG/ HND/ICN.

Speaking of...anyone know why they have the A350 do these weird hops between ICN and PVG when they're over there? Cargo?

For example (on July 21) :

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N515DN

kjnslSLC wrote:

Speaking of...anyone know why they have the A350 do these weird hops between ICN and PVG when they're over there? Cargo?

For example (on July 21) :

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N515DN

China bound flights have been stopping in ICN and switching out crews so they don’t have to disembark in China and face China’s quarantine restrictions. AA and UA have been doing the same thing.

191 arrived in ATL this afternoon and will RTS later today
1023 on track for tomorrow night

IFC
3078 back in service
3039 back in service
3096 RTS tomorrow
3010 to follow it @ DTW
3072 RTS 7/24
3076 may be following it...TBD

191 back in service
1023 in service

IFC
3096 is back in service
3072 RTS moved up to tonight
3074 appears to be following it, not 3076
3069 RTS 6/24
3098 should follow

5652 has inducted into ATL MX to be the IFC prototype for the 757 fleet.

audidudi wrote:

dtwpilot225 wrote:

Does anyone know the delivery schedule for the remaining a330-900? And where these aircraft will most likely be utilized?
Thanks

I would expect up to 8 more to be delivered next year, but, as always, it will depend on when DL needs them. I'm sure that AIrbus can accomodate DL's needs and can prioritize production for them as needed.

I think it's going to be nine received in 2022:

- 7 from Airbus and 1 leased, as noted in the Annual Report

- 1 pulled-ahead from 2023, as announced in the last 10-Q

That should leave 7 for 2023, and 10 for 'after 2023'.

Slightly related to the thread seems Delta has been using the 757 between ATL-BUF the last week. I'm sure BUF hasn't seen scheduled passenger 757 flights in over a decade.

SXDFC wrote:

Sorry if this was discussed earlier. What domestic routes is DL deploying the A350 on? Does SLC receive any?

DL just updated a few SLC-DTW flights per day from Aug 22-Sep 1 with the 359.

3161 RTS today
6711 RTS today
3716 to exit BHM-QRO tomorrow: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n386da
3726 to exit QRO tomorrow: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n396da

IFC
3017, 3050, 3010 to RTS tomorrow
3087 en route to enter MSP for mods
3018 to enter ATL for mods tonight
3060 to RTS 7/27
3062 to follow it at MSP
3051 to follow 3010

6801 to also ferry out of BHM today: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n702tw
6803 to exit QRO-ATL today: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n704x
3716/3726 on track

IFC
3050 back in service
3017/3010 on track for later today
3051 en route for mods
3018 flew a few more segments but is now headed for mods
3062 to enter mods tonight
3075/3089 to enter mods tomorrow
3060 on track for RTS tomorrow
3074/3098 showing RTS 7/28

777Mech wrote:

5652 has inducted into ATL MX to be the IFC prototype for the 757 fleet.

What is IFC?

Gillbilly wrote:

777Mech wrote:

5652 has inducted into ATL MX to be the IFC prototype for the 757 fleet.

What is IFC?

IN-FLIGHT CONNECTIVITY.

6803 exit punted to tomorrow
6801/3716/3726 did as expected
3328 back in service
3133 ferry ATL-VQQ 7/27
3217 RTS 7/28
3355 exit MZJ-SAL 7/28 (last 330 at MZJ)

IFC
3010/3017 back in service
3060 on track to RTS tomorrow
3062 entered MSP for mods
3089/3075 on track to enter mods tomorrow

777Mech wrote:

5652 has inducted into ATL MX to be the IFC prototype for the 757 fleet.

Will the 757/767 fleet get the LDS large display system like they did for UPS. There is a video on YouTube about the system

https://youtu.be/Uxi1KNqNN4s

DL757NYC wrote:

777Mech wrote:

5652 has inducted into ATL MX to be the IFC prototype for the 757 fleet.

Will the 757/767 fleet get the LDS large display system like they did for UPS. There is a video on YouTube about the system

https://youtu.be/Uxi1KNqNN4s

No plans for any upgrades to the 757 fleet. The 767 fleet will be retiring, so no point in doing so for that fleet.

3726 RTS this morning

IFC
3098 back in service
3060 back in service
3089 - monitoring as it's now showing flights through the 29th

6803 exited QRO. RTS TBD
3233/3264 to swap out at SAL tomorrow
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n333nw
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n364nw

bpat777 wrote:

Slightly related to the thread seems Delta has been using the 757 between ATL-BUF the last week. I'm sure BUF hasn't seen scheduled passenger 757 flights in over a decade.

I'm guessing the last regularly scheduled 757 service at BUF would have been when UA was still sending 752s on ORD-BUF?

717 9561 to exit SBD storage tomorrow (was previously 'retired')
332 3355 exit MZJ-SAL tomorrow
3233/3264 on track as noted
3217 RTS tomorrow
3138 exit VQQ-MSP tomorrow
3353 exit SAL-JFK 7/29

IFC
3074 on track to RTS tomorrow
3075 entered MSP for mods
3019 looks to be entering ATL for mods 7/29
3081 may be entering mods instead of 3089...TBD

9M-LNK and LNL of Malindo Air is now otw for Delta. 4 more of ex OD to go. 23 more is expected to be an ex SL (Thai Lion) and ID (Batik Air Indonesia).

3233 /3138 showing RTS 7/29 after exiting their respective mx stays today
3144 ferry to VQQ this morning

IFC
3074 back in service
3051 RTS 7/30
3011 to take its place
Looks like 3081 is indeed in for mods rather than 3089

777Mech wrote:

DL757NYC wrote:

777Mech wrote:

5652 has inducted into ATL MX to be the IFC prototype for the 757 fleet.

Will the 757/767 fleet get the LDS large display system like they did for UPS. There is a video on YouTube about the system

https://youtu.be/Uxi1KNqNN4s

No plans for any upgrades to the 757 fleet. The 767 fleet will be retiring, so no point in doing so for that fleet.

Retiring when? Latest I heard had the 757s around possibly through 2030. 767s might be as soon as 2025 but there's still no real replacement. Is that still correct?

surfdog75 wrote:

Retiring when? Latest I heard had the 757s around possibly through 2030. 767s might be as soon as 2025 but there's still no real replacement. Is that still correct?

That's incorrect. The amount of widebody capacity DL has on order / taken delivery of since the start of the pandemic exceeds that of the pre-pandemic 763 and 777 fleets. DL has indicated that it expects to retire the 763 by 2025,


That's incorrect. Through 2025, DL is scheduled to take delivery of more capacity since the start of the pandemic, than that of the pre-pandemic 763 and 777 fleets. DL indicated it's planning for the 763 to be retired by 2025, but recently acknowledged that date is flexible. There are no immediate plans to replace the 764 fleet -- which is just a few years older than the 330 delivered to NW.

Of course, DL's fleet plan is fluid. Recall that in the mid-2010s, it planned on updating the cockpits of the MD-88/90 and operating them through 2030...

WidebodyPTV wrote:

surfdog75 wrote:

Retiring when? Latest I heard had the 757s around possibly through 2030. 767s might be as soon as 2025 but there's still no real replacement. Is that still correct?

That's incorrect. The amount of widebody capacity DL has on order / taken delivery of since the start of the pandemic exceeds that of the pre-pandemic 763 and 777 fleets.

It is arguable, however, that there is no real size replacement for the 763 (although yes, the capacity is certainly more than replaced). Specifically, "smaller" routes like RDU-CDG will either need a 764/A332 to maintain frequency or upguage to A333/A339 (after 2025). Some of these routes may be able to upguage. I am curious to see if DL does try to acquire a smaller widebody or if DL just considers these routes to be marginal in the network such that the options I listed are OK - with the pandemic changing things, its certainly possible. Its a strategy decision that will be interesting to see play out by DL as DL was using the 763s creatively.

jbs2886 wrote:

It is arguable, however, that there is no real size replacement for the 763 (although yes, the capacity is certainly more than replaced). Specifically, "smaller" routes like RDU-CDG will either need a 764/A332 to maintain frequency or upguage to A333/A339 (after 2025). Some of these routes may be able to upguage. I am curious to see if DL does try to acquire a smaller widebody or if DL just considers these routes to be marginal in the network such that the options I listed are OK - with the pandemic changing things, its certainly possible. Its a strategy decision that will be interesting to see play out by DL as DL was using the 763s creatively.

The B764 will be around into next decade. The A332 will be around longer - and I'm certain DL could grab a few more on the second-hand market if it desired.

That the 763/764 is the "perfect" aircraft for DL is merely a longtime a.net fallacy. Most of these aircraft were acquired for the domestic market, and pushed into long-haul service when DL was stuck with a large number of fairly young aircraft that were no longer financially viable in the domestic market (heck, at one point in the late 1990s, DL planned on replacing many of the 763 with 777 as the routes matured, moving the 763 into the domestic system). Globally, most airlines have upgauged to larger aircraft and there's no reason to think DL can't -- especially when swelling business class seats, premium economy and economy seats with additional leg room shrink the overall number of economy seats available.

I think FSDan started a thread showing DL's widebody utilization for summer 2018 or 2019, but I couldn't find it. Maybe somebody else can? But anyway, most of the 763 routes -- including DTW-FRA, a second CDG frequency, SEA-NRT, NRT-HNL, etc. -- could've easily supported a 333. Heck, leisure routes like NGO/KIX-HNL, MCO/TPA-AMS, etc. would be better operated with a 333 than a 763... it was more of a matter of matching equipment as best as DL could, and they had way more 763 than 333.

Ultimately, routes like CVG-CDG will do just fine with a 764, and some smaller routes (like IND-CDG) aren't likely to return.

This is the thread in reference for Summer 2019 widebody flying:
viewtopic.php?t=1420613#p21287817

Like said, pretty much anything that was/is B763 going through LHR, CDG, AMS, FRA could easily go B764 or A332/3/9


76K is 26 / 18 / 21 / 151 = 216 (19 frames, phase out YE2025, but as a flex-fleet could potentially be extended out a few years as required
76Z is 26 / 35 / 165 = 226 (15-18 frames, probably phasing-out by YE2023)
764 is 34 / 20 / 28 / 156 = 238 (21 frames, probably in-service through end of decade)
332 is 34 / 32 / 168 = 234 (11 frames) reconfiguration status TBD will be curious how they reconfig this aircraft, but I see this potentially going to a ("low J") config with J mini-cabin behind L2 possibly becoming the Premium Select Cabin
333 is 34 / 21 / 24 / 203 = 282 seats (31 frames)
339 is 29 / 28 / 56 / 168 = 281 seats
359 is 32 / 48 / 26 / 190 = 306 seats

Eventually the A332 and A333 will be due for a D1 replacement. Probably coming up starting in 2022 or 2023.
The TATL flying in most cases is going to favor A333/9 sized aircraft.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

This is the thread in reference for Summer 2019 widebody flying:
viewtopic.php?t=1420613#p21287817

Like said, pretty much anything that was/is B763 going through LHR, CDG, AMS, FRA could easily go B764 or A332/3/9


76K is 26 / 18 / 21 / 151 = 216 (19 frames, phase out YE2025, but as a flex-fleet could potentially be extended out a few years as required
76Z is 26 / 35 / 165 = 226 (15-18 frames, probably phasing-out by YE2023)
764 is 34 / 20 / 28 / 156 = 238 (21 frames, probably in-service through end of decade)
332 is 34 / 32 / 168 = 234 (11 frames) reconfiguration status TBD will be curious how they reconfig this aircraft, but I see this potentially going to a ("low J") config with J mini-cabin behind L2 possibly becoming the Premium Select Cabin
333 is 34 / 21 / 24 / 203 = 282 seats (31 frames)
339 is 29 / 28 / 56 / 168 = 281 seats
359 is 32 / 48 / 26 / 190 = 306 seats

Eventually the A332 and A333 will be due for a D1 replacement. Probably coming up starting in 2022 or 2023.
The TATL flying in most cases is going to favor A333/9 sized aircraft.

333s are already getting a refresh in D1, like the 76Ks. The 332s will be starting mods shortly.

I didn't think the 76Ks were getting much of a refresh in D1 other than seat covers.
Assume the 332/3s will eventually need/get a seat/PTV replacement in the years ahead.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

I didn't think the 76Ks were getting much of a refresh in D1 other than seat covers.
Assume the 332/3s will eventually need/get a seat/PTV replacement in the years ahead.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-ret ... irst-look/

It'll be interesting to see what they ultimately decide to do with the D1 cabin in the 330s. The product is getting dated, but a similar refresh would still be fairly competitive. Between the 330NEO and the 350, they'll have almost 80 aircraft equipped with suites. The suites probably aren't completely necessary for many of the Transatlantic routes out of less competitive markets like ATL, MSP, DTW, and SLC. 80 planes should be enough to cover any Asia flying plus the more competitive TATL markets out of places like JFK, BOS, SEA, and LAX.

seatown1 wrote:

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

I didn't think the 76Ks were getting much of a refresh in D1 other than seat covers.
Assume the 332/3s will eventually need/get a seat/PTV replacement in the years ahead.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-ret ... irst-look/

It'll be interesting to see what they ultimately decide to do with the D1 cabin in the 330s. The product is getting dated, but a similar refresh would still be fairly competitive. Between the 330NEO and the 350, they'll have almost 80 aircraft equipped with suites. The suites probably aren't completely necessary for many of the Transatlantic routes out of less competitive markets like ATL, MSP, DTW, and SLC. 80 planes should be enough to cover any Asia flying plus the more competitive TATL markets out of places like JFK, BOS, SEA, and LAX.

Like I stated above, they're only getting a refresh like the 76K. Updated lavs, seat covers and overall being brought into new marketing standards.

Why can’t Delta and United twist Boeing’s arm and order pax version of the 767.

DL757NYC wrote:

Why can’t Delta and United twist Boeing’s arm and order pax version of the 767.

Because they don’t want them?

9561/3233/3138 back in service this morning
3353 exit SAL-JFK 7/29
3313 showing exit SAL-ATL tomorrow. First 333 with PS
3717 to exit QRO-ATL tomorrow
3725 to enter QRO tomorrow

IFC
3018/3081/3087 RTS 7/31
3019 and 3040 to enter ATL/MSP respectively tonight
3011 to enter DTW tomorrow

DL757NYC wrote:

Why can’t Delta and United twist Boeing’s arm and order pax version of the 767.

UA can happily take 787s and eliminate a type as the 767s and 764s depart. Widebody pilot work groups are expensive, even moreso when heavily fragmented across multiple types and bases. UA will get a more reliable operation and can schedule pilots more consistently (up) towards the guarantee.

DL appears to be happy upgauging, shuffling 764s and 332s as A330-900s are delivered. I don't what the DL long-haul network will look like in terms of destinations, airport pairs, and frequencies as the 763s depart but Covid (both declines in business travel and border closures) has screwed that up more than simple upgauging ever could.

WidebodyPTV wrote:

surfdog75 wrote:

Retiring when? Latest I heard had the 757s around possibly through 2030. 767s might be as soon as 2025 but there's still no real replacement. Is that still correct?

That's incorrect. The amount of widebody capacity DL has on order / taken delivery of since the start of the pandemic exceeds that of the pre-pandemic 763 and 777 fleets. DL has indicated that it expects to retire the 763 by 2025,


That's incorrect. Through 2025, DL is scheduled to take delivery of more capacity since the start of the pandemic, than that of the pre-pandemic 763 and 777 fleets. DL indicated it's planning for the 763 to be retired by 2025, but recently acknowledged that date is flexible. There are no immediate plans to replace the 764 fleet -- which is just a few years older than the 330 delivered to NW.

Of course, DL's fleet plan is fluid. Recall that in the mid-2010s, it planned on updating the cockpits of the MD-88/90 and operating them through 2030...

Thanks. The 330 is quite a size increase over the 767. 2030 is what I've heard for the the 757s. There are 11 NBA owned planes as well. The original question was in regard to cockpit upgrade for the 75s. Seems like 8-9 years would make that viable, especially since the cargo carriers who might be the eventual purchasers, already have them installed, but what do I know. I do know the cockpits need an upgrade badly.

surfdog75 wrote:

WidebodyPTV wrote:

surfdog75 wrote:

Retiring when? Latest I heard had the 757s around possibly through 2030. 767s might be as soon as 2025 but there's still no real replacement. Is that still correct?

That's incorrect. The amount of widebody capacity DL has on order / taken delivery of since the start of the pandemic exceeds that of the pre-pandemic 763 and 777 fleets. DL has indicated that it expects to retire the 763 by 2025,


That's incorrect. Through 2025, DL is scheduled to take delivery of more capacity since the start of the pandemic, than that of the pre-pandemic 763 and 777 fleets. DL indicated it's planning for the 763 to be retired by 2025, but recently acknowledged that date is flexible. There are no immediate plans to replace the 764 fleet -- which is just a few years older than the 330 delivered to NW.

Of course, DL's fleet plan is fluid. Recall that in the mid-2010s, it planned on updating the cockpits of the MD-88/90 and operating them through 2030...

Thanks. The 330 is quite a size increase over the 767. 2030 is what I've heard for the the 757s. There are 11 NBA owned planes as well. The original question was in regard to cockpit upgrade for the 75s. Seems like 8-9 years would make that viable, especially since the cargo carriers who might be the eventual purchasers, already have them installed, but what do I know. I do know the cockpits need an upgrade badly.

While it is an upguage in terms of seats, the marginal cost of those seats is very low because the A333/A339 is more efficient than the 767s they will replace. I think it is a a-net fallacy that DL needs a 767-sized widebody for its TATL fleet. I certainly don't have the cost per mile/seat costs, but I wouldn't be shocked that an A333/339 is cheaper to operate because of lower fuel burn and has an increased revenue potential because of more seats and more cargo capacity.

bkflyguy wrote:

While it is an upguage in terms of seats, the marginal cost of those seats is very low because the A333/A339 is more efficient than the 767s they will replace. I think it is a a-net fallacy that DL needs a 767-sized widebody for its TATL fleet. I certainly don't have the cost per mile/seat costs, but I wouldn't be shocked that an A333/339 is cheaper to operate because of lower fuel burn and has an increased revenue potential because of more seats and more cargo capacity.

That marginal op cost comparison (be it CASM or trip) doesn't tell the full story because they will also be comparing a paid-for and fully depreciated 767 against the cap cost or lease payment of that shiny 339. There are going to be some routes, in some seasons, where the incremental seats really have no market value. Ever been on a JFK-BRU flight in winter with just 70 seats filled? I have - on some very, very cheap fares.

Another ex-LATAM A359 for DL, A7-AQC/PR-XTL, ferried from GRU>VCV yesterday and will become N576DZ:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/pr-xtl

audidudi wrote:

Another ex-LATAM A359 for DL, A7-AQC/PR-XTL, ferried from GRU>VCV yesterday and will become N576DZ:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/pr-xtl

Is this an Aercap bird?

3051 RTS sooner than originally expected
3011 took its place for mods
3087 RTS moved up to later today as well
3040 to take its place
3019 mod entry also appears to be moving up to today

MIflyer12 wrote:

bkflyguy wrote:

While it is an upguage in terms of seats, the marginal cost of those seats is very low because the A333/A339 is more efficient than the 767s they will replace. I think it is a a-net fallacy that DL needs a 767-sized widebody for its TATL fleet. I certainly don't have the cost per mile/seat costs, but I wouldn't be shocked that an A333/339 is cheaper to operate because of lower fuel burn and has an increased revenue potential because of more seats and more cargo capacity.

That marginal op cost comparison (be it CASM or trip) doesn't tell the full story because they will also be comparing a paid-for and fully depreciated 767 against the cap cost or lease payment of that shiny 339. There are going to be some routes, in some seasons, where the incremental seats really have no market value. Ever been on a JFK-BRU flight in winter with just 70 seats filled? I have - on some very, very cheap fares.

Except that traditional cost accounting methods are evolving. For example, at times in 2019, DL would liberally keep a brand new 359 on the ground at both DTW & LAX for extended periods of time, so that the aircraft could work around the flight schedule DL deemed optimal. Under classic cost accounting models, those aircraft would've been forced scheduled into flying as many hours as possible (and DL would've used a mix of creative scheduling & alternative equipment to achieve this).

Not to mention, legacy travel patterns are quickly changing. Off-peak travel no longer means paying bargain rates to fly empty planes to uncrowded destinations... it now means there will be fewer people and you'll pay less than peak. Thus, while it use to be that airlines could lose all the money they made flying to Europe come winter, the window of opportunity has widened to the point that by not upgauging, DL is giving up a lot of profit.

3352 exit SAL-JFK has been cancelled

DL757NYC wrote:

Why can’t Delta and United twist Boeing’s arm and order pax version of the 767.

Supposedly UA asked and Boeing figured out what it would take to get the interior back in to production (the internet wags guessed some of the tooling at the suppliers had been scrapped with no expectation of future orders).

Guess the number was too high as UA didn’t order any.

3353 exit now scheduled for tomorrow
3725/3717/3313 on track

IFC
3018 RTS moved up to tomorrow
3081 still showing RTS 7/31
3046 should enter ATL on 7/31
3026 looks like it will enter MSP tomorrow, which would mean 3061 should exit soon

3725 en route to QRO
3353 to exit today and RTs 8/1
Unknown 757s into QRO today and out tomorrow (latter cancelled). 6823 and 652 should both be exiting soon, so it may be one of those.

IFC
3018 back in service
3061 and 3075 showing RTS 8/1
3026 to enter today
3046 to enter tomorrow
3076 likely to enter MSP 8/1