Air France KLM News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Jetty · Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:05 pm

vhtje wrote:
Don't confuse the French State with the French. My particular point is about the French State being left with having a much bigger say in the running of KLM than the Dutch Government.

As part of the Dutch financial aid the government got a 5 year guarantee of the independence of KLM and the position of AMS in the AFKL network, and now has a 'state-agent' who oversees the spending of the government loan; effectively giving the government veto power.

https://www.parool.nl/nederland/kabinet ... ~ba5fbc8e/ (Dutch)

With this new power and guarantees since COVID the Dutch government gained power even if the stake in AFKL will be lower.

ro1960 · Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:05 pm

AF to operate flights between Paris and Maputo from 20 June 2021, twice a week via JNB:

TH, SU: AF990 CDG 23h25 - MPM 13h10
MO, FR : AF995 MPM 15h45 - CDG 05h45

https://twitter.com/airplusnews/status/1380829419841945615?s=20

mercure1 · Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:08 pm

With China Eastern participation of the recapitalization of the group, airlines have agreed to deepen the scope of their partnerships.

https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/air-fra ... artnership

Blerg · Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:42 am

Do we know how much China (Eastern) gave in terms of capital? I am surprised they didn't ask for shares.

airsmiles · Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:54 am

Jetty wrote:
vhtje wrote:
Don't confuse the French State with the French. My particular point is about the French State being left with having a much bigger say in the running of KLM than the Dutch Government.

As part of the Dutch financial aid the government got a 5 year guarantee of the independence of KLM and the position of AMS in the AFKL network, and now has a 'state-agent' who oversees the spending of the government loan; effectively giving the government veto power.

https://www.parool.nl/nederland/kabinet ... ~ba5fbc8e/ (Dutch)

With this new power and guarantees since COVID the Dutch government gained power even if the stake in AFKL will be lower.

What happens when the 5 year guarantee period ends though?

Someone83 · Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:30 am

Blerg wrote:
Do we know how much China (Eastern) gave in terms of capital? I am surprised they didn't ask for shares.

AFAIK if was enough to maintain their current 10% ownership of Air France-KLM

jbs2886 · Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:44 am

Blerg wrote:
Do we know how much China (Eastern) gave in terms of capital? I am surprised they didn't ask for shares.

They did. The capital raised issued more shares, diluting existing ownership. CE, however, by participating in the capital raise acquires new shares to maintain its prior ownership level. DL, on the other hand, had its ownership reduced because of the new shares but not participating.

Blerg · Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:30 am

Interesting. How much of a drop did DL experience because of this?

Polot · Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:09 am

Blerg wrote:
Interesting. How much of a drop did DL experience because of this?

DL had a 10% ownership. Now 4.7%.

ro1960 · Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:56 pm

Blerg wrote:
Do we know how much China (Eastern) gave in terms of capital? I am surprised they didn't ask for shares.

There is a breakdown of the shares further up the thread.
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456051&start=200#p22733145

FlyingHonu001 · Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:37 am

KL now upgrading its Cargo-In-Cabin operations to include custom made Cargo Seat Bag covers to protect the interior when using their pax widebodies for cargo.

https://www.trip-co.nl/aircargo/dutch-i ... o-for-klm/

PANAMsterdam · Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:18 pm

KLM's brand new 777-300ER already out of service after an unfortunate pushback.

Four week old PH-BVV was so eager to go to Seoul that the pushback started while the aviobridge was still attached, damaging the fuselage.
Picture here

Source

This is not the first incident involving a brand new KLM plane, a few weeks ago the new Embraer 195-E2 got damaged after a lighting strike on approach to BER.

Boeing757100 · Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:35 pm

How active are the Martinair operated 747-400Fs for KLM? Any guesses on how long they'll last? I don't even think they're 20 years old yet, so it certainly has to be at least a decade!

FlyingHonu001 · Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:57 am

PANAMsterdam wrote:
KLM's brand new 777-300ER already out of service after an unfortunate pushback.

Four week old PH-BVV was so eager to go to Seoul that the pushback started while the aviobridge was still attached, damaging the fuselage.
Picture here

Source

This is not the first incident involving a brand new KLM plane, a few weeks ago the new Embraer 195-E2 got damaged after a lighting strike on approach to BER.

This involves one of the last ancient OTW jetways at EHAM, I was a manual jetway operator a few years back and they are very tricky to operate to make a proper connection. Retracting them is actually easier, one push of a button and they automatically go back to their starting position. So in a way this is kinda ridiculous...

Eikie · Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:07 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
KLM's brand new 777-300ER already out of service after an unfortunate pushback.

Four week old PH-BVV was so eager to go to Seoul that the pushback started while the aviobridge was still attached, damaging the fuselage.
Picture here

Source

This is not the first incident involving a brand new KLM plane, a few weeks ago the new Embraer 195-E2 got damaged after a lighting strike on approach to BER.

This involves one of the last ancient OTW jetways at EHAM, I was a manual jetway operator a few years back and they are very tricky to operate to make a proper connection. Retracting them is actually easier, one push of a button and they automatically go back to their starting position. So in a way this is kinda ridiculous...

From the cockpit you can't see it, from the cabine maybe if you look out of the small windows, but cabine crew have other things to do.
From a pushback truck you probably can't see it either, with you begint under the aircraft and the bridge above the wing.

Somebody forgot to retract the bridge (or wasn't ready to do so) and the pushback driver didn't know/see/realise that.

Mistakes for sure, somebody screwed up, but I can see why it happened.

DrEsteban · Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:27 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
How active are the Martinair operated 747-400Fs for KLM? Any guesses on how long they'll last? I don't even think they're 20 years old yet, so it certainly has to be at least a decade!

PH-CKA, -CKB and -CKC are 17-18 years old and officially owned by KLM and operated by Martinair as part of an interchange agreement. However, sometime this year the three aircraft will formally move onto the Martinair AOC. The aircraft are in excellent condition and will continue to fly for many years to come. PH-MPS is a lot older at 30+ years and is currently the only aircraft on the Martinair AOC. This aircraft will need to be replaced in the not too distant future.

All four aircraft have been used very actively and since the start of the pandemic load factors (and yields) have been excellent. It is a very small but successful part of the AFKL group and, at least in the near term, is expected to continue to do well.

kaitak · Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:37 pm

Is there anywhere I can get a schedule of new E2 deliveries and also, when they are likely to be sent to various new (for the E2) destinations.

We in DUB get a mix of E-jets and 737s, so with the 130 seat capacity of the E2, I would imagine we'll be seeing it before too long.

factsonly · Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:14 pm

kaitak wrote:
Is there anywhere I can get a schedule of new E2 deliveries and also, when they are likely to be sent to various new (for the E2) destinations.

Three KLM E195-E2 aircraft have been delivered:

- PH-NXA
- PH-NXB
- PH-NXC

Four more E2 aircraft will be delivered later this year:

- PH-NXD delivery next two weeks
- PH-NX? later this year
- PH-NX? later this year
- PH-NX? later this year

KLM destinations served by E195-E2 on a daily basis:

- ARN 2x daily
- BER 2x daily
- WAW 1x daily
- GVA 1x daily
- MUC 1x daily

Occasional E2 destinations:

- HAM
- GOT
- FCO
- BGO
- PRG

Currently (April 2021) no UK & Ireland destinations are served by E195-E2, but KLM is busy re-opening its UK & Ireland network following a complete ban of all NL-UK air travel:

re-started:
- LHR four weeks ago
- MAN four weeks ago
- ABZ four weeks ago
- BHX three weeks ago
- ORK two weeks ago
- BHD last week
- NCL last week
- EDI last week
- GLA last week
- BRS this week
- LBA this week
- CWL this week

KLM E2 seating (132 seats) is presently restricted to 110 seats, as there is no cockpit crew agreement for regional operator KLC to operate aircraft with over 110 seats.

https://www.klm.com/travel/us_en/prepar ... 195_e2.htm

gkirk · Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:01 pm

factsonly wrote:
kaitak wrote:
Is there anywhere I can get a schedule of new E2 deliveries and also, when they are likely to be sent to various new (for the E2) destinations.

Three KLM E195-E2 aircraft have been delivered:

- PH-NXA
- PH-NXB
- PH-NXC

Four more E2 aircraft will be delivered later this year:

- PH-NXD delivery next two weeks
- PH-NX? later this year
- PH-NX? later this year
- PH-NX? later this year

KLM destinations served by E195-E2 on a daily basis:

- ARN 2x daily
- BER 2x daily
- WAW 1x daily
- GVA 1x daily
- MUC 1x daily

Occasional E2 destinations:

- HAM
- GOT
- FCO
- BGO
- PRG

Currently (April 2021) no UK & Ireland destinations are served by E195-E2, but KLM is busy re-opening its UK & Ireland network following a complete ban of all NL-UK air travel:

re-started:
- LHR four weeks ago
- MAN four weeks ago
- ABZ four weeks ago
- BHX three weeks ago
- ORK two weeks ago
- BHD last week
- NCL last week
- EDI last week
- GLA last week
- BRS this week
- LBA this week
- CWL this week

KLM E2 seating (132 seats) is presently restricted to 110 seats, as there is no cockpit crew agreement for regional operator KLC to operate aircraft with over 110 seats.

https://www.klm.com/travel/us_en/prepar ... 195_e2.htm

NCL restarted about 4 weeks ago, just after ABZ

kaitak · Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:57 am

Many thanks for this information, Factsonly!

FlyingHonu001 · Thu May 06, 2021 3:39 pm

The European Commission has budgeted 5 million EUR to co-finance 8,4 million EUR worth of support measures and services for some 1200 dismissed / redundant KL personnel.
.

"...The personalised services to be provided to redundant workers consist of the following actions:
– Professional orientation. During this phase the participants will receive information about the support process, orientation and job search assistance. It alsoincludes individual self-confidence coaching to help workers to move to new jobs.

– Support to find work in dedicated sectors. This measure will provide professional assistance to move to sectors with labour shortages, such as education, healthcare, logistics, technologies and information management. For instance, people with a technical background (i.e. KLM engineering and maintenance) could be reskilled, enabling them to take a job in a technology related sector.

– Training, coaching and/or education. This will include measures to develop skills needed in a new field of employment.

– Financial advice. This measure will provide individual assessment and financial advice to ensure that an affected employee has a clear view on his/her financial situation and the outlook to make the right decision. In this assessment, the financial service expert will take into account personal circumstances, how a change in job affects income, housing situation (i.e. ability to fulfil mortgage obligations, rental fees, effect of possible relocation), and the effects of specific measures from collective labour agreements and of changing national fiscal regulations..."

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pressco ... ip_21_2243

N717TW · Thu May 06, 2021 3:55 pm

I just got an email from AF about LHR-NCE. Does anyone know if this is just shuffling an existing LHR slot or did AF apply for one of the old BMI remedy slots that flybe dropped when they went bust? NCE was one of the few non-UK destinations (Cairo and Moscow?) that were part of the requirements. Just curious.

mercure1 · Sat May 08, 2021 9:28 pm

AFKL Group posted its Q1 financial numbers.

Travel restrictions with Covid-19 pandemic continue to impact the financial results, which posted a 57% drop in revenue in the first quarter and a net loss of 1.5 billion euros.

By group airlines, AF operating loss was 840mil euros, KLM 337mil loss and Transavia a 120mil loss.

Outlook remains tepid with persistence of virus, and travel restrictions around the world, and estimates group will offer around 50% of capacity in Q2 versus 2019.

https://www.air-journal.fr/2021-05-06-a ... 27695.html

Blerg · Sun May 09, 2021 4:23 am

This coming Thursday KLM is resuming AMS-BEG after three decades. Flights will operate three times per week and the inaugural was upgraded from E90 to B737. Hopefully they do well in BEG so as to reduce the really strong presence of Star Alliance. If anyone knows the load on the first flight it would great if they could share it with us.

Blerg · Thu May 13, 2021 3:15 pm

KLM lands in Belgrade after three decades.

Pics can be seen here:
https://www.exyuaviation.com/2021/05/kl ... three.html

UPlog · Thu May 27, 2021 4:39 pm

Air France agrees sale and leaseback deal on its two B777Fs

https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/f ... wo-b777fs/

onwFan · Thu May 27, 2021 11:57 pm

mercure1 wrote:
With China Eastern participation of the recapitalization of the group, airlines have agreed to deepen the scope of their partnerships.

https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/air-fra ... artnership

What was not mentioned in the press release is that the ‘when conditions are satisfied’ refers to the termination of the JV with China Southern. Apparently, the AF/KL/CZ contract ends in 2021, following which the Beijing-CDG/AMS routes will also become part of the MU JV. I assume XiamenAir gets kicked out? Article is in Dutch:-

https://zakenreis.nl/luchtvaart/einde-j ... ern-nabij/

The whole two separate JVs anyway did not make sense. I expect CZ to add AY (and eventually IB) into the JV with BA.

alohashirts · Fri May 28, 2021 1:27 am

Any news if or when KL will resume SLC?

FlyingHonu001 · Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:11 am

With summer months coming up, KL has launched
https://holidays.klm.nl/en moving into tour operator territory

Now offering full service package holidays in an effort to get everyone flying again

FlyingHonu001 · Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:19 pm

KL AMS to North America v.v. flights to resume pre-corona scheduling

Changes compared to 2019
There will be a total of 16 North American destinations in the summer of 2021. That is one destination less compared to the summer of 2019, namely Salt Lake City. However, KLM will continue to offer a direct flight from Amsterdam to Salt Lake City in cooperation with its partner Delta Air Lines.

KLM intends to add Las Vegas and Minneapolis over the summer, but this will depend on the end of travel restrictions between the United States and Europe.

In its winter schedule, which runs from 31 October 2021 through 26 March 2022, KLM will add two new destinations to its North American network: the Mexican resort of Cancun and Orlando in the American state of Florida.

The frequency of flights to the destinations this summer will be lower than in the summer of 2019. Both the frequency and seating capacity vary per destination. Thanks to the increasing rate of vaccination and the gradual reopening of Europe and also the United States, we expect that these numbers will gradually increase. We are very agile when it comes to planning our network and of course we consider market demand.

Source: https://news.klm.com/network-of-klm-des ... nal-level/

FlyingHonu001 · Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:22 pm

alohashirts wrote:
Any news if or when KL will resume SLC?

This will be codeshared with DL, see above

FlyingHonu001 · Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:29 pm

The A320neo is being considered to be added to the KL fleet

...The airline has also restarted its analysis of the Airbus A320neo and Boeing 737 Max families for a possible order, said Elbers. Both jets would further reduce the fuel burn and carbon emissions of KLM’s fleet in the future...

Source: https://skift.com/2021/06/15/klm-ceo-se ... ate-goals/

Looks fine by me :bouncy:

ro1960 · Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:43 am

The "Arlésienne" is back!

Air France-KLM targets a 'low cost' model for its domestic network and point-to-point intra EU.

Article in French

mig17 · Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:10 am

ro1960 wrote:
The "Arlésienne" is back!

Air France-KLM targets a 'low cost' model for its domestic network and point-to-point intra EU.

Article in French

And the strategy do so is by transfering domestic and short range point to point to Transavia wile doubling or tripling it's fleet.

FlyingHonu001 · Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:21 pm

KL421 with PH-AOF (332) made a U-turn over Kosovo while flying to DMM, now on a return leg back to AMS. Reason unknown...

https://fr24.com/KLM421/28275148

Nicknuzzii · Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:11 pm

Any chance KLM or AF returns to EWR within the next few years? As someone who lives near EWR and JFK it seems there is growing demand for EWR.

LAXintl · Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:49 pm

Air France-KLM announces the successful placement of an issue of €800mil ($955m) senior notes in two tranches.
The net proceeds of the issue will be used to refinance outstanding market debt and part of the State Aid debt package.

https://www.airfranceklm.com/en/system/ ... access.pdf

mercure1 · Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:01 pm

In the context of the EC state aid approval of €4 billion recapitalizations of Air France, the group is making available up to 18 daily slots at Paris Orly airport.
The carrier(s) for slots will be selected by the EC.

https://www.ilgiornale.it/news/life/aer ... 56590.html

factsonly · Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:35 am

A month after KLM celebrated 75 years of flight operations AMS-NYC, it is now Air France's turn to celebrate 75 years of service from Paris to the Big Apple:

The story began on June 24, 1946, when a Douglas DC-4 called “Ciel d’île de France” took off from Paris-Orly at 7:00 p.m.
After 23 hours and 45 minutes, at an average speed of 305 km/h and two stopovers, one in Shannon, Ireland and the other in Terre Neuve, Newfoundland, the first scheduled service landed in New York.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOtFvznawN4&t=328s

FlyingHonu001 · Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:48 am

AF yesterday launched her latest TATL USA route
Every Wednesday, Friday, Sunday

AF632 789 CDG 1310 - 1520 DEN
AF631 789 DEN 1720 - 1040 CDG

Source: https://corporate.airfrance.com/en/pres ... ture-paris

... Air France will launch on July 2, 2021 a new connection between Paris-Charles de Gaulle and Denver International Airport (Colorado). Up to three direct flights will be operated each week (on Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays) by a Boeing 787-9 with a capacity of 279 seats (30 in Business cabin, 21 in Premium Economy and 228 in Economy)....

ro1960 · Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:51 pm

Air France-KLM: call for tenders for 160 medium-haul aircraft (article in French).

"The Air France-KLM Group has launched a call for tenders to renew and grow the medium-haul fleets of KLM and Transavia (France and the Netherlands)".

Dedicated thread here.

Blerg · Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:35 pm

Starting from 19.06 KLM will be increasing AMS-BEG from 7 to 13 weekly flights. This is impressive especially since this route was launched some 2.5 months ago.

Flights are already in the system.

A330Inter · Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:02 am

Blerg wrote:
Starting from 19.06 KLM will be increasing AMS-BEG from 7 to 13 weekly flights. This is impressive especially since this route was launched some 2.5 months ago.
Flights are already in the system.

The second flight will give more connectivity US -> BEG and return will cater more for P2P
JU doesn't seem to fly Daily on this route (yet? - I guess they used to pre-Covid), are they planning to codeshare with KLM on the route? I know KLM is not an easy partner but that would benefit both I think!

Blerg · Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:14 am

A330Inter wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Starting from 19.06 KLM will be increasing AMS-BEG from 7 to 13 weekly flights. This is impressive especially since this route was launched some 2.5 months ago.
Flights are already in the system.

The second flight will give more connectivity US -> BEG and return will cater more for P2P
JU doesn't seem to fly Daily on this route (yet? - I guess they used to pre-Covid), are they planning to codeshare with KLM on the route? I know KLM is not an easy partner but that would benefit both I think!

JU boosted AMS to 6 weekly but unfortunately KLM terminated the code-share on AMS-BEG once they launched their own flights. Now we know why. They still cooperate on flights via CDG though.

Demand seems to be growing as there is also Wizz Air to EIN three times per week with the A321.

factsonly · Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:58 pm

Blerg wrote:
Starting from 19.06 KLM will be increasing AMS-BEG from 7 to 13 weekly flights. This is impressive especially since this route was launched some 2.5 months ago.

Flights are already in the system.

While West European destinations remain frequency restricted, KLM has quietly re-instated/added capacity to central Europe this COVID summer (particularly Croatia & Serbia).

- ZAG 2x daily B738 (was 1x E190) NEW night-stop
- SPU 3x daily B738/E190 (was 1x E190) NEW night-stop
- DBV 1x daily E190 (NEW)
- BEG 2x daily B737/E190 (NEW)
- PRG 3x daily B737/E190 (CSA gone)
- BUD 4x daily B737 (full schedule)
- BUH 2x daily B737 (down 1x)
- WAW 3x daily E195-E2 (full schedule)

Blerg · Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:14 pm

factsonly wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Starting from 19.06 KLM will be increasing AMS-BEG from 7 to 13 weekly flights. This is impressive especially since this route was launched some 2.5 months ago.

Flights are already in the system.

While West European destinations remain frequency restricted, KLM has quietly re-instated/added capacity to central Europe this COVID summer (particularly Croatia & Serbia).

- ZAG 2x daily B738 (was 1x E190) NEW night-stop
- SPU 3x daily B738/E190 (was 1x E190) NEW night-stop
- DBV 1x daily E190 (NEW)
- BEG 2x daily B737/E190 (NEW)
- PRG 3x daily B737/E190 (CSA gone)
- BUD 4x daily B737 (full schedule)
- BUH 2x daily B737 (down 1x)
- WAW 3x daily E195-E2 (full schedule)

Unfortunately BEG isn't double daily, it's 12 to 13 times per week which is still impressive.

mercure1 · Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:15 pm

Here is first AF A220 out of paint shop

Video of painting
https://youtu.be/IAvw7a8QS2Q

lesfalls · Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:52 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Here is first AF A220 out of paint shop

Video of painting
https://youtu.be/IAvw7a8QS2Q

when is it expected to join the fleet?

FlyingHonu001 · Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:33 pm

In the meantime, KL repositioned PH-AOM from AMS to WOE. Aircraft is the first 332 to be phased out from the KL fleet and is awaiting final return to lessor

https://fr24.com/data/aircraft/ph-aom#288cbf26

HECA · Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:49 pm

lesfalls wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Here is first AF A220 out of paint shop

Video of painting
https://youtu.be/IAvw7a8QS2Q

when is it expected to join the fleet?

End September as per the article on Luchtvaartnieuws: https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... urenschema

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