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cloudboy
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:57 pm

And yet there is a major road tunnel right next to terminal A.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:03 pm

cloudboy wrote:
And yet there is a major road tunnel right next to terminal A.


Indeed there is. You might also recall how expensive it was and how long it took to build. Not sure Massport is willing to spend that much.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:14 pm

FGITD wrote:
cloudboy wrote:
And yet there is a major road tunnel right next to terminal A.


Indeed there is. You might also recall how expensive it was and how long it took to build. Not sure Massport is willing to spend that much.


A better comparison is the tunnel that connects the main terminal A to the satellite. It's doable for sure but the cost and amount of disruption it would cause during construction probably makes it a non-starter. There's a reason why in situations like that most airports will use a bus to connect both terminals.
If there ever is a need to connect B to Satellite A, a skybridge is the way to go, as they did in Seattle. It's the same distance from gate B10 to the end of the terminal where A14 is.
https://www.portseattle.org/blog/five-f ... an-walkway
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:47 pm

airbazar wrote:
FGITD wrote:
cloudboy wrote:
And yet there is a major road tunnel right next to terminal A.


Indeed there is. You might also recall how expensive it was and how long it took to build. Not sure Massport is willing to spend that much.


A better comparison is the tunnel that connects the main terminal A to the satellite. It's doable for sure but the cost and amount of disruption it would cause during construction probably makes it a non-starter. There's a reason why in situations like that most airports will use a bus to connect both terminals.
If there ever is a need to connect B to Satellite A, a skybridge is the way to go, as they did in Seattle. It's the same distance from gate B10 to the end of the terminal where A14 is.
https://www.portseattle.org/blog/five-f ... an-walkway


I've sometimes wondered whether something like this would make sense for A to E post-security connections. They could likely build on top of existing walkways / parking garage structures. Would be an interesting definition of airside..haha
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:01 pm

tlecam wrote:
I've sometimes wondered whether something like this would make sense for A to E post-security connections. They could likely build on top of existing walkways / parking garage structures. Would be an interesting definition of airside..haha


A while ago I have actually suggested that here in the forum. The added benefit of such a thing is that they could leverage a section of the parking garage to create revenue space like concessions, restaurants, or lounges. I know it's a little far from the gates for a lounge but think of what they could do with that much space... and the view :bigthumbsup:
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:10 pm

airbazar wrote:
tlecam wrote:
I've sometimes wondered whether something like this would make sense for A to E post-security connections. They could likely build on top of existing walkways / parking garage structures. Would be an interesting definition of airside..haha


A while ago I have actually suggested that here in the forum. The added benefit of such a thing is that they could leverage a section of the parking garage to create revenue space like concessions, restaurants, or lounges. I know it's a little far from the gates for a lounge but think of what they could do with that much space... and the view :bigthumbsup:



And spotting :)

Separate note - Delta released a PR this morning, and offered some more details on flights from Boston (and JFK) to Europe for next summer:

https://news.delta.com/delta-delivers-m ... ext-summer

Customers planning next summer’s European vacation will discover more routes, premium seats and destinations in 2022, including a significant restoration of service in which Delta will offer the most flights to Europe from New York-JFK and Boston.

And those looking to kickstart their trip with a more elevated onboard experience can indulge in Delta Premium Select, as every European flight will boast the premium economy cabin for the first time since its debut in 2017.

....

In Boston, new and returning routes plus upgraded aircraft will mean rapid growth for Delta’s hub at Logan International Airport. Delta will operate up to 10 daily flights to nine trans-Atlantic destinations, offering nearly 5,000 more seats each week compared with summer 2019, including:

Launching two new routes over Memorial Day weekend to Athens and Tel Aviv on the Airbus A330-300 and A330-900, respectively.
Restarting five-times weekly service to Edinburgh on May 27, with upgraded Boeing 767-300 aircraft.
Resuming nonstop daily service to Rome on May 1.
Upgrading service to Amsterdam, Dublin and Paris to the Airbus A330-300 and Lisbon to the Boeing 767-300.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:18 pm

I'm hoping for a xmas surprise and that BA makes the decision to bring back the A380 :D
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:48 pm

airbazar wrote:
I'm hoping for a xmas surprise and that BA makes the decision to bring back the A380 :D


It would be nice, but I see no sign of it from either Emirates or BA as far into the future as I can see (the only two airlines that could conceivably do so). But both airlines are in the midst of reactivating the planes and the people who crew them, so if trends stay positive I would be cautiously optimistic for next summer but no earlier.
 
seat24charlie
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:48 pm

chrisnh wrote:
airbazar wrote:
I'm hoping for a xmas surprise and that BA makes the decision to bring back the A380 :D


It would be nice, but I see no sign of it from either Emirates or BA as far into the future as I can see (the only two airlines that could conceivably do so). But both airlines are in the midst of reactivating the planes and the people who crew them, so if trends stay positive I would be cautiously optimistic for next summer but no earlier.


Yes, the only carrier I've seen making a splash about their A380s returning to service is Qantas. I think the residual volatility + depressed business travel demand means we'll likely see 78s, 35s, 33s and T7s dominate for quite a while.
 
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mikegigs
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:21 pm

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... -benefits/

As part of the move, American is retiring its Shuttle product, which offered shorter check-in cutoff times, dedicated kiosks and more-convenient boarding gates. As part of the move, American will be pulling out of the Boston to New York/LaGuardia market in January, and JetBlue will operate exclusively in that corridor going forward.


Buried in this article, it looks like AA is ending it's Shuttle service and pulling out of BOS-LGA. Not super surprising it's ending the Shuttle brand - I feel like they haven't been marketing it for years - but surprising that they are pulling out of the market completely.

I wonder if B6 will be boosting their flight schedule between BOS and NYC (and if DL will expand too)...
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:49 pm

mikegigs wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/american-new-refundable-fares-jetblue-benefits/

As part of the move, American is retiring its Shuttle product, which offered shorter check-in cutoff times, dedicated kiosks and more-convenient boarding gates. As part of the move, American will be pulling out of the Boston to New York/LaGuardia market in January, and JetBlue will operate exclusively in that corridor going forward.


Buried in this article, it looks like AA is ending it's Shuttle service and pulling out of BOS-LGA. Not super surprising it's ending the Shuttle brand - I feel like they haven't been marketing it for years - but surprising that they are pulling out of the market completely.

I wonder if B6 will be boosting their flight schedule between BOS and NYC (and if DL will expand too)...

Wow - I have flown the shuttle all the time but I think most of the time there is a heavy corporate special discount. With corporate travel not fully up, I think AA has ceased the ground to B6 which seems to be benefiting from the Northeast alliance. I had thought they would have some presence but looks like they are completely giving the ground to B6 as part of the alliance.
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:52 pm

seat24charlie wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
airbazar wrote:
I'm hoping for a xmas surprise and that BA makes the decision to bring back the A380 :D


It would be nice, but I see no sign of it from either Emirates or BA as far into the future as I can see (the only two airlines that could conceivably do so). But both airlines are in the midst of reactivating the planes and the people who crew them, so if trends stay positive I would be cautiously optimistic for next summer but no earlier.


Yes, the only carrier I've seen making a splash about their A380s returning to service is Qantas. I think the residual volatility + depressed business travel demand means we'll likely see 78s, 35s, 33s and T7s dominate for quite a while.


We're talking about BA at BOS. I think it's fair to expect the A380 to be back in the Spring if not sooner. Early next month BA starts flying the A380 to DXB, MIA, and LAX, all popular Winter time leisure destinations for Brits. It's fair to assume that as far as the U.S. is concerned, BOS would be next.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:32 pm

BA in Boston is all about frequency. They’re going back to 3x daily. The a380 fit Boston because there was huge demand for capacity as well as frequency. Now it’s one or the other. I’d expect to see the 35k or 78x back in the rotation before an a380
 
acavpics
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:56 pm

FGITD wrote:
BA in Boston is all about frequency. They’re going back to 3x daily. The a380 fit Boston because there was huge demand for capacity as well as frequency. Now it’s one or the other. I’d expect to see the 35k or 78x back in the rotation before an a380


In previous years BA had 4 daily flights in summer. So if that 4th flight doesn't come back next summer, we could see one of their existing 3 flights be upgraded to an A380.

In fact, I don't think the 4th BA flight will return because AA resumed BOS-LHR.
 
ScottB
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:42 pm

mikegigs wrote:
Buried in this article, it looks like AA is ending it's Shuttle service and pulling out of BOS-LGA. Not super surprising it's ending the Shuttle brand - I feel like they haven't been marketing it for years - but surprising that they are pulling out of the market completely.

I wonder if B6 will be boosting their flight schedule between BOS and NYC (and if DL will expand too)...


This doesn't seem like a positive benefit to consumers from the B6-AA alliance. Pre-alliance, B6 was planning an aggressive move to compete with AA and DL on BOS-LGA. Now AA is pulling out of the market entirely. Higher fares are the inevitable result.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:38 am

ScottB wrote:
mikegigs wrote:
Buried in this article, it looks like AA is ending it's Shuttle service and pulling out of BOS-LGA. Not super surprising it's ending the Shuttle brand - I feel like they haven't been marketing it for years - but surprising that they are pulling out of the market completely.

I wonder if B6 will be boosting their flight schedule between BOS and NYC (and if DL will expand too)...


This doesn't seem like a positive benefit to consumers from the B6-AA alliance. Pre-alliance, B6 was planning an aggressive move to compete with AA and DL on BOS-LGA. Now AA is pulling out of the market entirely. Higher fares are the inevitable result.


Without a doubt. Delta is happier now than they were before that announcement.

I’m also a little shocked - the shuttle has had DL and US Air / AA presence (and sometimes all three) for my entire professional career.

I’m also curious as to what this means for AA brand / presence / market share in the northeast - I’m not reading too much into this, but it does make me wonder…. I’ve long maintained that AA’s northeast demise has been somewhat overstated, but it’s wild to me that AA is letting JetBlue fly LGA-BOS.
 
S0Y
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:35 am

mikegigs wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/american-new-refundable-fares-jetblue-benefits/

As part of the move, American is retiring its Shuttle product, which offered shorter check-in cutoff times, dedicated kiosks and more-convenient boarding gates. As part of the move, American will be pulling out of the Boston to New York/LaGuardia market in January, and JetBlue will operate exclusively in that corridor going forward.


Buried in this article, it looks like AA is ending it's Shuttle service and pulling out of BOS-LGA. Not super surprising it's ending the Shuttle brand - I feel like they haven't been marketing it for years - but surprising that they are pulling out of the market completely.

I wonder if B6 will be boosting their flight schedule between BOS and NYC (and if DL will expand too)...


Surprising, AA must be very confident that nothing will come of the ongoing challenge to their alliance with B6.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:47 pm

FGITD wrote:
BA in Boston is all about frequency. They’re going back to 3x daily. The a380 fit Boston because there was huge demand for capacity as well as frequency. Now it’s one or the other. I’d expect to see the 35k or 78x back in the rotation before an a380


I don't see it as being one or the other. I see it as being exactly as it was pre-Pandemic. Leisure travel is back and business travel is coming back. My wife is on a business trip right now. Her first since the Pandemic started. People are done with Zoom :bigthumbsup:
The BOS-LHR market is almost the perfect A380 market:
- Huge market for both business and leisure. With the 744's having been retired there are very few options left.
- Slot restrictions on 1 side; gate restrictions on the other side. Adding frequencies is not that trivial.
- It's not high enough volume to justify more than 4 daily, like NYC.

For December they're already at 3x with a 777, 788, 789. And those were scheduled before the announcement of the lifting of travel restrictions. Add AA's 772 and we're already at 4x daily and it's not even Summer yet. I think this coming Summer we are going to see in the TATL market the same sort of crazy demand that we saw domestically last Summer. Just look at DL scheduling a 767 to LIS where it used to be a 752. It's gonna be that kind of crazy, I think.
 
ScottB
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:59 pm

airbazar wrote:
I think this coming Summer we are going to see in the TATL market the same sort of crazy demand that we saw domestically last Summer. Just look at DL scheduling a 767 to LIS where it used to be a 752. It's gonna be that kind of crazy, I think.


I'm not convinced of this yet. Summer demand IMO will depend on more predictable government policy and the end of the requirement of a negative Covid test to travel. I personally am not willing to risk being stuck in a foreign country for two weeks and unable to return due to a positive Covid test. More flexible cancellation and refund policies make the departure less risky -- if you can get a refund or credit for your hotels and flights, cancelling your trip is a bummer but not as burdensome as being stuck quarantining in a foreign country for weeks. I'm only one person so I know others will feel differently, but as long as the U.S. requires a negative Covid test to board a flight, I'm not flying overseas, even being fully-vaccinated.
 
jplatts
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:02 pm

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of BOS in August 2021:
BNA-BOS - 22268 passengers, 23966 seats, 92.91% load factor
BOS-BWI - 40464 passengers, 43580 seats, 92.85% load factor
BOS-DEN - 26351 passengers, 27841 seats, 94.65% load factor
BOS-MCO - 937 passengers, 1001 seats, 93.61% load factor
BOS-MDW - 32196 passengers, 34042 seats, 94.58% load factor
BOS-STL - 15624 passengers, 17185 seats, 90.92% load factor
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:55 am

Is WN down to 6 destinations out of Boston? They’re basically a spoke from the WN non-hub connecting airports.
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:12 am

tlecam wrote:
Is WN down to 6 destinations out of Boston? They’re basically a spoke from the WN non-hub connecting airports.


Boston has lost what? CMH, IND, MCI, ATL, DAL, AUS, and HOU?
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:19 pm

tlecam wrote:
Is WN down to 6 destinations out of Boston? They’re basically a spoke from the WN non-hub connecting airports.


A far cry from when they were busting at the seams and Massport essentially built them full time access to 5 gates in B to run 55 departures a day +
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:25 pm

ScottB wrote:
airbazar wrote:
I think this coming Summer we are going to see in the TATL market the same sort of crazy demand that we saw domestically last Summer. Just look at DL scheduling a 767 to LIS where it used to be a 752. It's gonna be that kind of crazy, I think.


I'm not convinced of this yet. Summer demand IMO will depend on more predictable government policy and the end of the requirement of a negative Covid test to travel. I personally am not willing to risk being stuck in a foreign country for two weeks and unable to return due to a positive Covid test. More flexible cancellation and refund policies make the departure less risky -- if you can get a refund or credit for your hotels and flights, cancelling your trip is a bummer but not as burdensome as being stuck quarantining in a foreign country for weeks. I'm only one person so I know others will feel differently, but as long as the U.S. requires a negative Covid test to board a flight, I'm not flying overseas, even being fully-vaccinated.


No doubt some people will feel that way but remember, in Europe they have started to eliminate the need for covid testing prior to flying. Passengers originating in some European countries, already today don't run the risk of being stranded in the U.S. by testing positive while here. I am traveling to England and Austria over xmas and neither of them requires fully vaccinated travelers to get a test here before getting on the plane. So that solves that problem from one side of the Atlantic.

Another thing to consider but I can't find confirmation about this online is, if you're traveling abroad for only 1 day you don't need a covid test on the return. If true, a U.S. originating business traveler could fly to Europe for a business meeting and then fly back the next day without needing a pre-flight covid test. Someone please correct me if this is not the case.
 
jplatts
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:17 pm

tlecam wrote:
Is WN down to 6 destinations out of Boston? They’re basically a spoke from the WN non-hub connecting airports.


B752OS wrote:
Boston has lost what? CMH, IND, MCI, ATL, DAL, AUS, and HOU?


VS4ever wrote:
A far cry from when they were busting at the seams and Massport essentially built them full time access to 5 gates in B to run 55 departures a day +


WN re-adding BOS-DAL nonstop service is a possibility with BOS being one of the top destinations traveled to from DAL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic that isn't currently served nonstop from DAL. WN also has a significant FF base in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and Southern California to support the return of BOS-DAL nonstop service.

Even though WN had dropped BOS-PHX nonstop service more than 9 years ago, I had also mentioned the possibility of WN re-adding BOS-PHX nonstop service as WN had average load factors of over 90% on BOS-PHX 10 years ago. WN also still has a significant FF base in Greater Phoenix to support the return of BOS-PHX nonstop service on WN.

WN also has Sunday-only seasonal BOS-MCI nonstop service, and WN is going to be resuming BOS-HOU nonstop service on a seasonal, Sunday-only basis starting on 11/20/2021.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:27 pm

jplatts wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Is WN down to 6 destinations out of Boston? They’re basically a spoke from the WN non-hub connecting airports.


B752OS wrote:
Boston has lost what? CMH, IND, MCI, ATL, DAL, AUS, and HOU?


VS4ever wrote:
A far cry from when they were busting at the seams and Massport essentially built them full time access to 5 gates in B to run 55 departures a day +


WN re-adding BOS-DAL nonstop service is a possibility with BOS being one of the top destinations traveled to from DAL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic that isn't currently served nonstop from DAL. WN also has a significant FF base in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and Southern California to support the return of BOS-DAL nonstop service.

Even though WN had dropped BOS-PHX nonstop service more than 9 years ago, I had also mentioned the possibility of WN re-adding BOS-PHX nonstop service as WN had average load factors of over 90% on BOS-PHX 10 years ago. WN also still has a significant FF base in Greater Phoenix to support the return of BOS-PHX nonstop service on WN.

WN also has Sunday-only seasonal BOS-MCI nonstop service, and WN is going to be resuming BOS-HOU nonstop service on a seasonal, Sunday-only basis starting on 11/20/2021.


Sorry but a major US carrier and we are talking about seasonal Sunday only service as being a good thing? This is WN not G4, it’s clear that they have gone back to a base strategy of main hubs only. If they wanted to do PHX they could have done it pre-Covid, when in fact they went the opposite way and dialed back their routes. Everything is a possibility, but unlike other airlines at BOS. WN is doing nothing… I would like to be surprised and some of these return but I have significant doubts that they care to.
 
jplatts
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:34 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Sorry but a major US carrier and we are talking about seasonal Sunday only service as being a good thing? This is WN not G4, it’s clear that they have gone back to a base strategy of main hubs only. If they wanted to do PHX they could have done it pre-Covid, when in fact they went the opposite way and dialed back their routes. Everything is a possibility, but unlike other airlines at BOS. WN is doing nothing… I would like to be surprised and some of these return but I have significant doubts that they care to.


PDEW's were down significantly from pre-pandemic levels on most of the routes out of BOS in Q2 2021. It wasn't simply a WN issue that led WN to make significant cuts at BOS as the significant decrease in demand to BOS was also there on many routes to BOS that weren't served nonstop by WN in 2019.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:52 pm

Well the whale is back...but not with restored service. I looked up in the parking lot of the North Shore Mall and was shocked to see an Emirates A380. Quickly checked flightradar24 and looks like it's EK201 to JFK diverting. I find it alittle humorous just on Friday the Globe had an article talking about how the A380 gates are a waste of money because we have no Super Jumbo service right now to BOS. Yet a day later we get a diversion. Although I do agree the case can be made those three gates weren't the best design. Sorry the picture isn't great.

Image
 
aaflyer777
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:28 pm

B752OS wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Is WN down to 6 destinations out of Boston? They’re basically a spoke from the WN non-hub connecting airports.


Boston has lost what? CMH, IND, MCI, ATL, DAL, AUS, and HOU?


Add MKE, FLL, and PHL to the list. TPA and MSY were Saturday only for a season or 2 as well and those are gone. Their schedule right now is pretty weak, 4x BWI, 3x MDW, 2x STL, 2x DEN, 1x BNA, and MCO is Sat only. Gotta wonder if they're gonna give up a gate or two, the way they're going they definitely don't need 5
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:50 pm

jplatts wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Sorry but a major US carrier and we are talking about seasonal Sunday only service as being a good thing? This is WN not G4, it’s clear that they have gone back to a base strategy of main hubs only. If they wanted to do PHX they could have done it pre-Covid, when in fact they went the opposite way and dialed back their routes. Everything is a possibility, but unlike other airlines at BOS. WN is doing nothing… I would like to be surprised and some of these return but I have significant doubts that they care to.


PDEW's were down significantly from pre-pandemic levels on most of the routes out of BOS in Q2 2021. It wasn't simply a WN issue that led WN to make significant cuts at BOS as the significant decrease in demand to BOS was also there on many routes to BOS that weren't served nonstop by WN in 2019.

You missed my point. If WN was all in prior to COVID and if the situation at PHX was so in favor of them bringing back the route. They would have done it at that point. Has nothing to do with q221 and there’s even less chance of it coming back now.
As I said WN made a decision pre-Covid to draw down the routes noted above. I don’t think they are coming back either way. As said elsewhere BOS is a spoke to their bigger hubs, and unless WN brass decide to ramp up BOS again. I don’t see this changing.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:56 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
Well the whale is back...but not with restored service. I looked up in the parking lot of the North Shore Mall and was shocked to see an Emirates A380. Quickly checked flightradar24 and looks like it's EK201 to JFK diverting. I find it alittle humorous just on Friday the Globe had an article talking about how the A380 gates are a waste of money because we have no Super Jumbo service right now to BOS. Yet a day later we get a diversion. Although I do agree the case can be made those three gates weren't the best design. Sorry the picture isn't great.

Nice shot.
I read that article in the Globe and found it a little misleading. It implies that all the improvements to terminal E and the huge cost were just so it could accommodate the A380. Terminal E was and in some ways still is a cramped, overcrowded mess with cavernous, dark lounges. It needed a serious upgrade with or without the double jetbridges.
And on a related note, BA just announced 2 more A380 destinations for Sp2022: DFW and SFO. Bummer to not see BOS but there's still time. I have little doubt that the BA A380 will return to BOS in 2022.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:18 pm

jplatts wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Is WN down to 6 destinations out of Boston? They’re basically a spoke from the WN non-hub connecting airports.


B752OS wrote:
Boston has lost what? CMH, IND, MCI, ATL, DAL, AUS, and HOU?


VS4ever wrote:
A far cry from when they were busting at the seams and Massport essentially built them full time access to 5 gates in B to run 55 departures a day +


WN re-adding BOS-DAL nonstop service is a possibility with BOS being one of the top destinations traveled to from DAL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic that isn't currently served nonstop from DAL. WN also has a significant FF base in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and Southern California to support the return of BOS-DAL nonstop service.

Even though WN had dropped BOS-PHX nonstop service more than 9 years ago, I had also mentioned the possibility of WN re-adding BOS-PHX nonstop service as WN had average load factors of over 90% on BOS-PHX 10 years ago. WN also still has a significant FF base in Greater Phoenix to support the return of BOS-PHX nonstop service on WN.

WN also has Sunday-only seasonal BOS-MCI nonstop service, and WN is going to be resuming BOS-HOU nonstop service on a seasonal, Sunday-only basis starting on 11/20/2021.



Thanks! I don’t follow WN as closely as some of the other airlines.
 
jplatts
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:22 pm

VS4ever wrote:
As I said WN made a decision pre-Covid to draw down the routes noted above. I don’t think they are coming back either way. As said elsewhere BOS is a spoke to their bigger hubs, and unless WN brass decide to ramp up BOS again. I don’t see this changing.


WN was originally planning on resuming BOS-AUS/DAL nonstop service in Spring 2020, but those plans were dropped due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

BOS would also likely have more WN nonstop service to BWI and BNA if the COVID-19 pandemic didn't happen.
 
Gillbilly
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:01 am

When UA begins their BOS-LHR service with the 763, will they do something similar to what AA is doing with the daily 777 MIA run? Where will the 767 come from in that case?
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:51 am

Gillbilly wrote:
When UA begins their BOS-LHR service with the 763, will they do something similar to what AA is doing with the daily 777 MIA run? Where will the 767 come from in that case?


My guess is that is will be rotated in a W pattern through LHR. The timings of the service with arrival at 7.40pm from LHR and departure at 10.25pm from BOS means there is unlikely to be a run to a different airport, i've checked the schedules to EWR, IAD, SFO, LAX, ORD and DEN and nothing is showing a 763 on any service. This is more like a European airline schedule than a US one so the W pattern is probably it.

AA is showing an 11.50am Arrival and a 8.30pm departure, and they are not going to want a 777 sitting on the ground that long, hence the run to MIA.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:49 pm

We already spoke on the BOS-LGA AA cuts. RDU will also get cut. B6/AA partnership in full force now.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/a ... tp&pc=U531

I think from a business sense, this is playing by one's strength than actually chasing all the darts.

One other question - traveling to BOM on QR on business for work in Dec. I was checking the lounges, looks like QR also uses AF lounge? Wow - barring AF, LH, BA, EK and probably the Priority Pass, there are no airline lounges in E? Not that it is a big deal, my experience with the AF lounge has been very bad at-least 4 years back. It was a zoo and I was better off sitting by the gates. The BA lounge was superb IMO.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:04 pm

iyerhari wrote:
We already spoke on the BOS-LGA AA cuts. RDU will also get cut. B6/AA partnership in full force now.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/a ... tp&pc=U531

I think from a business sense, this is playing by one's strength than actually chasing all the darts.

One other question - traveling to BOM on QR on business for work in Dec. I was checking the lounges, looks like QR also uses AF lounge? Wow - barring AF, LH, BA, EK and probably the Priority Pass, there are no airline lounges in E? Not that it is a big deal, my experience with the AF lounge has been very bad at-least 4 years back. It was a zoo and I was better off sitting by the gates. The BA lounge was superb IMO.


E in its original form, was not really big enough, nor had the service to warrant Lounges in any major form of number. With the expansion(s), that maybe more feasible, if/when more service shows up. For example. DL, what do they do? Right now they've renovated the Skyclub in A, but IF (and it's still an IF at this point) they transfer TATL to E in any major form, they are going to want a similar experience there too. If the AF lounge is bad, I suspect there's going to be some partner leaning going on to fix it, with AF/KL and DL using it at the very least. It could get rather busy.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:52 pm

VS4ever wrote:

E in its original form, was not really big enough, nor had the service to warrant Lounges in any major form of number. With the expansion(s), that maybe more feasible, if/when more service shows up. For example. DL, what do they do? Right now they've renovated the Skyclub in A, but IF (and it's still an IF at this point) they transfer TATL to E in any major form, they are going to want a similar experience there too. If the AF lounge is bad, I suspect there's going to be some partner leaning going on to fix it, with AF/KL and DL using it at the very least. It could get rather busy.

Thank you. Makes sense - my understanding is most DL departures are from A and DL has two lounges in A - main and satellite unless one is closed. Plus DL, AF are part of Sky alliance. I was just surprised even QR also uses AF lounge. Thanks for the detailed explanation.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:23 pm

Can confirm that the AF lounge is still bad as of just before COVID - still in the basement, still packed. It only looks marginally less bad when compared to the zoo that was terminal E during rush hour pre-COVID, which I liken to a chapter in Lord of the Flies.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:41 pm

VS4ever wrote:
E in its original form, was not really big enough, nor had the service to warrant Lounges in any major form of number. With the expansion(s), that maybe more feasible, if/when more service shows up. For example. DL, what do they do? Right now they've renovated the Skyclub in A, but IF (and it's still an IF at this point) they transfer TATL to E in any major form, they are going to want a similar experience there too. If the AF lounge is bad, I suspect there's going to be some partner leaning going on to fix it, with AF/KL and DL using it at the very least. It could get rather busy.

Does VS still have a lounge of their own in E? I would think DL may use that rather than the joke of a lounge that is the AF lounge.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:22 pm

airbazar wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
E in its original form, was not really big enough, nor had the service to warrant Lounges in any major form of number. With the expansion(s), that maybe more feasible, if/when more service shows up. For example. DL, what do they do? Right now they've renovated the Skyclub in A, but IF (and it's still an IF at this point) they transfer TATL to E in any major form, they are going to want a similar experience there too. If the AF lounge is bad, I suspect there's going to be some partner leaning going on to fix it, with AF/KL and DL using it at the very least. It could get rather busy.

Does VS still have a lounge of their own in E? I would think DL may use that rather than the joke of a lounge that is the AF lounge.


As of the summer, it was still temporarily closed. LAX was closed as well, not sure if that re-opened.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:32 pm

iyerhari wrote:
VS4ever wrote:

E in its original form, was not really big enough, nor had the service to warrant Lounges in any major form of number. With the expansion(s), that maybe more feasible, if/when more service shows up. For example. DL, what do they do? Right now they've renovated the Skyclub in A, but IF (and it's still an IF at this point) they transfer TATL to E in any major form, they are going to want a similar experience there too. If the AF lounge is bad, I suspect there's going to be some partner leaning going on to fix it, with AF/KL and DL using it at the very least. It could get rather busy.

Thank you. Makes sense - my understanding is most DL departures are from A and DL has two lounges in A - main and satellite unless one is closed. Plus DL, AF are part of Sky alliance. I was just surprised even QR also uses AF lounge. Thanks for the detailed explanation.


Currently you are correct that all the TATL departures are from A, but there has been much discussion about flipping them to E to give DL more room for domestic at A and increase their departures overall. Tying up A13,A14,A16,A17 and A19 for much of the evening stunts that growth potential as you could turn 4-5 smaller jets at least per gate. Plus it would also free up A15 that gets blocked as a result too. So there’s 24 departures a day right there on top of the existing list if TATL gets moved. But it comes with complications. Twin terminal management with tough linkages right now and the aforementioned lounge issues amongst other things.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:30 pm

VS4ever wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
VS4ever wrote:

E in its original form, was not really big enough, nor had the service to warrant Lounges in any major form of number. With the expansion(s), that maybe more feasible, if/when more service shows up. For example. DL, what do they do? Right now they've renovated the Skyclub in A, but IF (and it's still an IF at this point) they transfer TATL to E in any major form, they are going to want a similar experience there too. If the AF lounge is bad, I suspect there's going to be some partner leaning going on to fix it, with AF/KL and DL using it at the very least. It could get rather busy.

Thank you. Makes sense - my understanding is most DL departures are from A and DL has two lounges in A - main and satellite unless one is closed. Plus DL, AF are part of Sky alliance. I was just surprised even QR also uses AF lounge. Thanks for the detailed explanation.


Currently you are correct that all the TATL departures are from A, but there has been much discussion about flipping them to E to give DL more room for domestic at A and increase their departures overall. Tying up A13,A14,A16,A17 and A19 for much of the evening stunts that growth potential as you could turn 4-5 smaller jets at least per gate. Plus it would also free up A15 that gets blocked as a result too. So there’s 24 departures a day right there on top of the existing list if TATL gets moved. But it comes with complications. Twin terminal management with tough linkages right now and the aforementioned lounge issues amongst other things.


That's a disaster for connections for a "gateway hub" unless there's a sterile connection (physical or bus). They might be better off with a bus boarding operation for regional flights They can shift the hub gauge down to PVD during those peak times as a release valve for the market... LGA 3x daily starts in January and MSP is daily come June, It could be a 100% increase in seats July 22 vs 21
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:51 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Thank you. Makes sense - my understanding is most DL departures are from A and DL has two lounges in A - main and satellite unless one is closed. Plus DL, AF are part of Sky alliance. I was just surprised even QR also uses AF lounge. Thanks for the detailed explanation.


Currently you are correct that all the TATL departures are from A, but there has been much discussion about flipping them to E to give DL more room for domestic at A and increase their departures overall. Tying up A13,A14,A16,A17 and A19 for much of the evening stunts that growth potential as you could turn 4-5 smaller jets at least per gate. Plus it would also free up A15 that gets blocked as a result too. So there’s 24 departures a day right there on top of the existing list if TATL gets moved. But it comes with complications. Twin terminal management with tough linkages right now and the aforementioned lounge issues amongst other things.


That's a disaster for connections for a "gateway hub" unless there's a sterile connection (physical or bus). They might be better off with a bus boarding operation for regional flights They can shift the hub gauge down to PVD during those peak times as a release valve for the market... LGA 3x daily starts in January and MSP is daily come June, It could be a 100% increase in seats July 22 vs 21


I'm not saying it's happening, but it's being discussed for sure and the connection points are well noted as a particular issue too. But if DL wants to get back to a pre-covid goal of 200 departures a day, something gotta give... unless they are going to go for WN level turns per gate on the other gates.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:53 am

I can say with a certain degree of certainty that it is happening. Some Delta flights will be leaving from E. Seemingly no one likes it, but it is what it is.

VS lounge is also still closed. Alleged to not be reopening, at the very least any time soon. Lounges are super expensive to operate and are independent of alliances, JVs, etc. They usually charge a fixed rate per passenger. The reason you see so many in the AF lounge is most likely because they offer the best price. Usually lounge entry comes out of the stations open budget, so it’s in their best interest to go cheap.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:24 pm

FGITD wrote:
I can say with a certain degree of certainty that it is happening. Some Delta flights will be leaving from E. Seemingly no one likes it, but it is what it is.

VS lounge is also still closed. Alleged to not be reopening, at the very least any time soon. Lounges are super expensive to operate and are independent of alliances, JVs, etc. They usually charge a fixed rate per passenger. The reason you see so many in the AF lounge is most likely because they offer the best price. Usually lounge entry comes out of the stations open budget, so it’s in their best interest to go cheap.


With so little business travel happening the airlines have little incentive to bring back those expensive amenities.
When B6 starts TATL service next Summer they might decide to reopen the lounges otherwise how can they justify charging significantly higher fares than B6? The extra frequencies and better schedule justify a slight premium but there's a world of difference between a slight premium and twice the cost.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:58 pm

airbazar wrote:
With so little business travel happening the airlines have little incentive to bring back those expensive amenities.
When B6 starts TATL service next Summer they might decide to reopen the lounges otherwise how can they justify charging significantly higher fares than B6? The extra frequencies and better schedule justify a slight premium but there's a world of difference between a slight premium and twice the cost.

You can purchase a day pass at the AF lounge although it's always a ZOO and not sure why anyone would be keen to buy a zoo pass anyways. I feel that B6 may end up using the Priority Pass lounge OR there is also something called "The Lounge" at Terminal C and it should be quite walkable thanks to C-E connector.
 
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mikegigs
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:34 pm

Reports of a small fire on a UA plane this morning at BOS. Wonder what caused that one? Thankfully no reported injuries.

https://www.boston25news.com/news/local ... Q6DEFQMGE/
 
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airportugal310
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:03 pm

mikegigs wrote:
Reports of a small fire on a UA plane this morning at BOS. Wonder what caused that one? Thankfully no reported injuries.

https://www.boston25news.com/news/local ... Q6DEFQMGE/


Looks APU related. UA477 (757)...WHDH reported it as a 737 but tail is N13138 per the pics which matches up with a 757
 
acavpics
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:11 pm

Looks like TK is increasing service to BOS in S22 (Along with other US routes).
According to the aeronetwork, frequency will increase from 7x to 10x weekly.

I wonder what aircraft this additional service will be on. I really hope we get to see their A350, 787, or 777.

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