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Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:02 pm

usairways85 wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
According to Crankyflier LH has cut back PHL scheduling amount a few other cities

"Lufthansa cut back March schedules with cities like Atlanta, Charlotte, Detroit, and Philadelphia seeing only weekly flights."

IMO seeing LH coming back at all is good enough for me.

I agree that it is good they haven't cut it completely. I think we are going to see a lot more of this across all airlines. The start of the summer schedule will be more like June instead of the normal March/April with a 2nd increase in May/June. AA has done this already by delaying the restart of a number of TA flights.


I agree with you. The summer schedule will be interesting overall. As of right now QR has been the only consistence TA flight right now with BA being hit or miss
 
aerace
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:21 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Very disappointed we haven’t seen any love from Frontier lately. It seems like their focus is on MIA and LAS right now. Hopefully this changes soon and new routes or frequencies are announced!


Although they were announced last year, I'd still consider LA, PHX, and BOS new routes for 21 since their launches got pushed and CVG will be returning as well. I am not sure where else they could expand to at the moment. Maybe Florida like AA (return to PNS?) but I would love to see some competition on SAN or even try NAS or SJO. I wouldn't be surprised if ONT was eventually added too, considering the announced expansion from there and of course, if LAX proves successful.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:24 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Very disappointed we haven’t seen any love from Frontier lately. It seems like their focus is on MIA and LAS right now. Hopefully this changes soon and new routes or frequencies are announced!


I think with airlines pretty much focusing on Florida, Caribbean and warmer states and just where the current demand is right now F9 for PHL pretty much covers all the main Florida cities and other cities where the demand is. It would be nice to hear of any new routes this year from them.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1951
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:07 pm

Frontier had 2 departures from PHL today. Ouch.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:42 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Frontier had 2 departures from PHL today. Ouch.


Yea I saw on PHL website. They have been doing this for awhile during the pandemic. B6, NK also have been running very limited scheduling on Tuesdays as well the past few months
 
PHLCVGAMTK
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:50 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:46 am

PHLspecial wrote:
Random notes:
I looked at some of the International Passenger numbers over the last ten years.
Year | Passengers (Million) Enplanements
2010 | 1.86
2011 | 1.98
2012 | 1.98
2013 | 1.97
2014 | 2.04
2015 | 2.04
2016 | 1.99
2017 | 1.84
2018 | 1.87
2019 | 2.04

I'm not sure if I'm making the wrong insight here, after the merger between US and AA the international numbers was stagnate even after AA making PHL TATL hub in 2017?


The missing piece is that the crown jewel in post-merger AA's TATL network is, and has been, LHR. Connecting small-market passengers through PHL is cheap and (has been) profitable, but nothing compares to just owning a market by parking an old, paid-off widebody on a Heathrow-America route that can fill it, and using that to print money. So any time a mid-sized market started sending significant numbers through PHL, BA could throw a 744 on an old route and cascade a 787 down to a new nonstop to the city in question; good for everyone except PHL's stats.

It's going to be years before TATL demand recovers (companies are preparing for COVID travel restrictions to last through the year), and meanwhile BA and AA have retired a lot of their workhorse fleet types. I have no idea how they're going to rebuild the network, but I'm guessing it will involve some yyy-PHL-LHR-zzz two-stop itineraries that used to be a rarity. The A321XLR is going to be a lifesaver for PHL and AA, but they're still a few years out, and will restore more old routes than open up new ones.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 925
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:54 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Frontier had 2 departures from PHL today. Ouch.

Yeah well Frontier only had one departure today. Tuesday's and Wednesday's are least busy with the last passenger flight at 18:16 at PHL airport.
 
mjba257
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:21 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:05 am

PHLspecial wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Frontier had 2 departures from PHL today. Ouch.

Yeah well Frontier only had one departure today. Tuesday's and Wednesday's are least busy with the last passenger flight at 18:16 at PHL airport.


It pains me so much, especially when you recall where PHL was during Summer 2019. We were seeing flights to Morocco, Croatia, Czech Republic, etc. It will be years before we see those kinds of routes return. And direct flights to East Asia? Forget about it
 
aerace
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:55 am

mjba257 wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Frontier had 2 departures from PHL today. Ouch.

Yeah well Frontier only had one departure today. Tuesday's and Wednesday's are least busy with the last passenger flight at 18:16 at PHL airport.


It pains me so much, especially when you recall where PHL was during Summer 2019. We were seeing flights to Morocco, Croatia, Czech Republic, etc. It will be years before we see those kinds of routes return. And direct flights to East Asia? Forget about it


The whole situation really is disheartening. Any major business city that’s cold right now has got to be feeling it but for PHL pioneering the way it was..it hurts that much more. Hopefully the rollout of the vaccine improves because getting butts in seats is the only way things get back to normal, at least from a leisure standpoint. Business fliers are a whole other party. It will be a huge win if summer 21 holds but time will tell.
 
Updraft27
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 9:53 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:00 pm

I was driving by Atlantic Aviation yesterday and noticed that the former N113UW(I believe that was the registration number) of usairways1702 that crashed, had been moved and it looks like it they had begun to dismantle it. Went by there today and it looked like the engines have been removed. Are they finally scrapping it? Does anyone have any information on this. Thanks for the info. Sorry, couldn't get a good picture of it.
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1426
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:35 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:49 pm

Updraft27 wrote:
I was driving by Atlantic Aviation yesterday and noticed that the former N113UW(I believe that was the registration number) of usairways1702 that crashed, had been moved and it looks like it they had begun to dismantle it. Went by there today and it looked like the engines have been removed. Are they finally scrapping it? Does anyone have any information on this. Thanks for the info. Sorry, couldn't get a good picture of it.



It was on an IG page showing the move.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2877
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:29 am

Updraft27 wrote:
I was driving by Atlantic Aviation yesterday and noticed that the former N113UW(I believe that was the registration number) of usairways1702 that crashed, had been moved and it looks like it they had begun to dismantle it. Went by there today and it looked like the engines have been removed. Are they finally scrapping it? Does anyone have any information on this. Thanks for the info. Sorry, couldn't get a good picture of it.


I found it amazing how long this intact A320 sat there. I brought it up in a thread over a year ago and nobody had much information back then either, as to why it sat there for . It was obviously tied up in some sort of insurance litigation after the accident, but for it to take as long as it did was quite interesting. It is long overdue for dismantling/scrapping, so hopefully someone will gets some pics. This March would have been 7 years since the accident!
 
73790
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:48 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:12 pm

113 was scrapped today. All torn apart over at Atlantic.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1951
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:55 pm

Looks like F9 has bern playing with their schedule a little bit. If this is accurate PHL will be up to 27 flights a day in April and May. Bad news is, PHL-LAX/CVG are cut completely.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:59 pm

According to ThePointsGuy their will be new/expansion on a few routes from PHL this year from AA

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... ew-routes/
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:02 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Looks like F9 has bern playing with their schedule a little bit. If this is accurate PHL will be up to 27 flights a day in April and May. Bad news is, PHL-LAX/CVG are cut completely.


Well good news for the 27 flights a day if it sticks. As for CVG i'm not surprised especially since that route was constantly added and removed numerous times in the past. Sucks about the LAX
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1951
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:55 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
According to ThePointsGuy their will be new/expansion on a few routes from PHL this year from AA

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... ew-routes/


Good to see these routes for sure. Hopefully more to come. I’d be happy to get to 300 flights a day in July, does anyone know what we’re at for March?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1951
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:43 pm

JetBlue’s new routes are finally starting to do well for PHL. I believe they are all daily in March with the exception of PBI. I wouldn’t be surprised to see MCO go up to 2x daily soon!
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:31 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
JetBlue’s new routes are finally starting to do well for PHL. I believe they are all daily in March with the exception of PBI. I wouldn’t be surprised to see MCO go up to 2x daily soon!


Well that's promising to hear especially when their was doubt most of these routes would survive.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:34 pm

In regards to Eastern Airlines looks like like none of the routes are available for booking and I read on crankyflier that they plan on starting BOS to MEX. Not sure if that means PHL won't see service or not but at this point I'll believe it when I see it in regards to them actually starting any route for that matter
 
phllax
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:53 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:12 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
JetBlue’s new routes are finally starting to do well for PHL. I believe they are all daily in March with the exception of PBI. I wouldn’t be surprised to see MCO go up to 2x daily soon!


I am puzzled as to why PBI isn't doing well, especially with AA running 175's. The only thing I can think of is that the seasonal folks with houses never left last year when Covid hit, and that the winter weekenders who regularly do Thursday night down - Monday morning up have stayed put as well.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1951
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:21 pm

phllax wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
JetBlue’s new routes are finally starting to do well for PHL. I believe they are all daily in March with the exception of PBI. I wouldn’t be surprised to see MCO go up to 2x daily soon!


I am puzzled as to why PBI isn't doing well, especially with AA running 175's. The only thing I can think of is that the seasonal folks with houses never left last year when Covid hit, and that the winter weekenders who regularly do Thursday night down - Monday morning up have stayed put as well.


I’m thinking it’s more of the elderly crowd that heads down there for the winter so they are probably too afraid to travel.
 
MDTflyer1
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:46 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:39 pm

Eastern's unpredictability is a real liability. By now, I was hoping EA would be able to operate a consistent schedule At this point, I rather they not sell tickets for flights they have little intention on running or have a high probability of canceling at the last moment due to low load factors. I am still hoping they can normalize their operations.

And good to hear Jetblue's routes are doing well out of PHL. I have a feeling PHL will not see any additional routes from Jetblue this year, but hopefully we will see some frequency increases.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 925
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:03 pm

I hope EA can find a footing here. Maybe they need more ads to be visible. Hoping they stick.

Glad to hear JetBlue doing well. Love their product. As others stated hoping for frequency increases, basically daily on all their routes and double daily on MCO. As for expansion I can see LAX 2022 and either a Caribbean or central america beach as a wild guess.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:24 pm

Forgot to post that also from Crankflier looks like the following routes are cut either for good or for the spring/summer and also delayed launch

AS- SFO looks to be cut for good
F9 (was mentioned in an earlier post about LAX and CVG are cut); BOS cut for spring, AUS cut indefinitely
AA Madrid delayed until April and Amsterdam until May
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:28 pm

MDTflyer1 wrote:
Eastern's unpredictability is a real liability. By now, I was hoping EA would be able to operate a consistent schedule At this point, I rather they not sell tickets for flights they have little intention on running or have a high probability of canceling at the last moment due to low load factors. I am still hoping they can normalize their operations.

And good to hear Jetblue's routes are doing well out of PHL. I have a feeling PHL will not see any additional routes from Jetblue this year, but hopefully we will see some frequency increases.


I couldn't agree with you more in regards to EA. They are just all over the places with their scheduling as a whole. I do hope they get things in order overall.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4258
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:03 pm

phllax wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
JetBlue’s new routes are finally starting to do well for PHL. I believe they are all daily in March with the exception of PBI. I wouldn’t be surprised to see MCO go up to 2x daily soon!


I am puzzled as to why PBI isn't doing well, especially with AA running 175's. The only thing I can think of is that the seasonal folks with houses never left last year when Covid hit, and that the winter weekenders who regularly do Thursday night down - Monday morning up have stayed put as well.

My PHL-PBI-PHL flights for the holidays in Dec/Jan were both on 175s and both 95+% full. Now, while looking for flights in Mar/April for Easter PBI is cheaper than MCO so it will likely be the option we choose again. I suspect it is a vastly different travel trend in COVID for those vacationing or wintering on the east coast (Melbourne, Vero Beach, Jupiter, West Palm)
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:58 pm

I know PHL has been in talks about expansion at the airport for Cargo but here is the latest article I found about it

https://theloadstar.com/philadelphia-un ... lop-a-ccs/

I do believe once the Cargo facility is expanded it will be a game changer
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 925
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:18 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
I know PHL has been in talks about expansion at the airport for Cargo but here is the latest article I found about it

https://theloadstar.com/philadelphia-un ... lop-a-ccs/

I do believe once the Cargo facility is expanded it will be a game changer

I'm curious what cargo carriers would fly to PHL.
I hope we can see what the cargo facility will look like. There is tons of space to grow and fit a few planes there.
Now only if Septa and Amtrak can build the rail to that area as well. Would help with job growth and connecting our airport to Delaware.
 
gdavis003
Posts: 991
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:21 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
I know PHL has been in talks about expansion at the airport for Cargo but here is the latest article I found about it

https://theloadstar.com/philadelphia-un ... lop-a-ccs/

I do believe once the Cargo facility is expanded it will be a game changer


Where is the targeted expansion area? Is it to the north of the Expresspark on Tinicum Island Road?
 
usairways85
Posts: 4258
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:19 pm

Shame it cannot get rolling sooner. I love the idea and it appears UPS has ramped up operations a bit. But four years for development is a long time when they already seem to be behind the likes of ORD, ATL, IAH, DFW, CVG in existing or ongoing cargo infrastructure development.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:34 pm

https://thepointsguy.com/news/alaska-cu ... utes-2021/

So looks like AS cutting the PHL-SFO for good was the right move based of this article stating the route was a poor performer overall. So with just AA and UA only flying the route now the only other airline I could picture serving the route is possibly F9 (post covid) IMO
 
usairways85
Posts: 4258
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:41 pm

PHL-SFO is an interesting route. It seems like it should be a large enough market for more flights/carriers. I think, like PHL in general, it punches below it's weight. AA added multiple widebodies pre-Covid but there were only ~4 flights a day at times across AA/UA. PHL-SFO has generally been a very hard upgrade on UA (pre-Covid) where frequently the cabin was 75+% paid F or full Y upgrades.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 925
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:56 pm

Sad to see AS drop PHL-SFO. Likewise how VX did years ago. Agreed that PHL punches quite a bit below it's weight. Having EWR up the road with generally cheaper fares would do that.

PHL in general seems to do well on Florida routes but I'm not sure what else PHL does well in that causes it to lose the competitive advantage.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:43 am

https://simpleflying.com/american-southern-africa/

Simple flying posted this the other day about AA potential for South Africa flights and they mentioned PHL as possibly launching points. I know this is just there opinion but nice to see the airport mentioned as a possible contender in there minds
 
aerace
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:20 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/american-southern-africa/

Simple flying posted this the other day about AA potential for South Africa flights and they mentioned PHL as possibly launching points. I know this is just there opinion but nice to see the airport mentioned as a possible contender in there minds


Makes sense to me, especially with RAM being in OW. It would take some time to rebuild the market, particularly in SA because of the Covid strain there, but I don't see why AA couldn't give it a shot. All the factors are in place for them to try (787 base, lots of connections, good positioning, etc).
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 925
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:53 pm

aerace wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/american-southern-africa/

Simple flying posted this the other day about AA potential for South Africa flights and they mentioned PHL as possibly launching points. I know this is just there opinion but nice to see the airport mentioned as a possible contender in there minds


Makes sense to me, especially with RAM being in OW. It would take some time to rebuild the market, particularly in SA because of the Covid strain there, but I don't see why AA couldn't give it a shot. All the factors are in place for them to try (787 base, lots of connections, good positioning, etc).


Right now PHL has a base for 788 though not 789 yet(could be wrong). I wonder if the 2023 batch will have the 789 based here if PHL is a candidate for flights to South Africa. As you said all the factors are in place for it plus an underutilized international terminal pre/post covid.
 
mjba257
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:21 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:15 pm

I really hope that as demand for international travel returns, AA takes another look at PHL. The transatlantic operation out of Philly should rival that of UA at EWR, yet even before COVID, it was never even close. It's also about time PHL gets a TPAC flight. HND or HKG could work given the OW partners at the other end. And what about PHL-DEL? There is a large Indian diaspora in the Philly area so the VFR traffic as well as connecting pax could make that flight work.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1951
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:18 pm

The international story PHL is a pretty sad one right now. Everything we had pretty much fell apart and even some of it is permanent. I fully believe AC and LH will return. I also have confidence in EI and FI. Down the line I think AA will definitely bring back more of the leisure oriented routes and try new ones. This will not be until 2023 (?) Though when AA starts receiving the XLR’s and more 789s. I could easily see AA’s TATL portfolio from PHL looking something like this;

AMS
ATH
BCN
CDG
CMN
DBV
EDI
FCO
KEF
LHR
LIS
MAD
MAN
NAP
NCE
OPO
SNN
VCE
ZRH
 
ChrisPBacon
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:14 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:31 pm

mjba257 wrote:
I really hope that as demand for international travel returns, AA takes another look at PHL. The transatlantic operation out of Philly should rival that of UA at EWR, yet even before COVID, it was never even close.


PHL doesn't have the facilities that EWR has. The European arrival bank was so heavy that in 2018 and 2019 AA was using mobile lounges to meet 2 flights a day. Gate space was maxed out in A-East/West, B, and C. AA had even used the common use D2/4 in 2018. They can "look" all they want. But a significant investment needs to be made in order for PHL to grow. Cargo would need to be moved to expand A and add gates. The bag systems break down constantly because they are so antiquated. There should be an entirely new headhouse/common checkpoint/bagroom built between B/C and A East. Think similar to what was built for D/E. But AA being AA, decided to invest in LAX. Now they certainly don't have the money, and it's unlikely to see PHL invest in rebuilding the facility, although now might be the time to do it.
 
mjba257
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:21 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:54 am

ChrisPBacon wrote:
mjba257 wrote:
I really hope that as demand for international travel returns, AA takes another look at PHL. The transatlantic operation out of Philly should rival that of UA at EWR, yet even before COVID, it was never even close.


PHL doesn't have the facilities that EWR has. The European arrival bank was so heavy that in 2018 and 2019 AA was using mobile lounges to meet 2 flights a day. Gate space was maxed out in A-East/West, B, and C. AA had even used the common use D2/4 in 2018. They can "look" all they want. But a significant investment needs to be made in order for PHL to grow. Cargo would need to be moved to expand A and add gates. The bag systems break down constantly because they are so antiquated. There should be an entirely new headhouse/common checkpoint/bagroom built between B/C and A East. Think similar to what was built for D/E. But AA being AA, decided to invest in LAX. Now they certainly don't have the money, and it's unlikely to see PHL invest in rebuilding the facility, although now might be the time to do it.


Well that speaks to the incompetence of AA's management. I mean, why invest in PHL, a fortress hub that is perfectly positioned to be the premier TATL gateway in North America, when instead you could invest in LAX, where you only have about 20% of the market share, are going head to head with UA, DL, and WN, plus all the LCCs, and is poorly positioned to be a TPAC gateway
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 925
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:31 pm

ChrisPBacon wrote:
mjba257 wrote:
I really hope that as demand for international travel returns, AA takes another look at PHL. The transatlantic operation out of Philly should rival that of UA at EWR, yet even before COVID, it was never even close.


PHL doesn't have the facilities that EWR has. The European arrival bank was so heavy that in 2018 and 2019 AA was using mobile lounges to meet 2 flights a day. Gate space was maxed out in A-East/West, B, and C. AA had even used the common use D2/4 in 2018. They can "look" all they want. But a significant investment needs to be made in order for PHL to grow. Cargo would need to be moved to expand A and add gates. The bag systems break down constantly because they are so antiquated. There should be an entirely new headhouse/common checkpoint/bagroom built between B/C and A East. Think similar to what was built for D/E. But AA being AA, decided to invest in LAX. Now they certainly don't have the money, and it's unlikely to see PHL invest in rebuilding the facility, although now might be the time to do it.

I think part of PHL problem is the terminal layout. All the alleyways usually with 11-13 gates are causing bottlenecks thus increasing the turnaround time. PHL would need to destroy B and C and combine into one bigger terminal IMO. Agreed with the baggage needs to be upgraded. EWR has 121 gates while PHL has 128. Yet PHL has 15 million less passengers than EWR. That tells me our airport layout is inefficient with terminals and similar runway layout to EWR.

LAX has way more O/D passengers than PHL. Philadelphia needs to be a world class city to be completive or have a better airport layout.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1951
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:22 pm

Well today’s news was just great...
 
usairways85
Posts: 4258
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:44 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Well today’s news was just great...

Yea, well MIA has much more demand to TLV than PHL, not even a comparison unfortunately.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:26 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Well today’s news was just great...


Yea agreed but we need to see if AA even resumes their regular TATL service first without pushing back dates like they've done already to at least two routes. I'll take any expansion at PHL at this point.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 925
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:16 am

So much for AA speak about PHL being the main TATL hub. Maybe in 2023 or 2024
 
crownvic
Posts: 2877
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:54 am

usairways85 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Well today’s news was just great...

Yea, well MIA has much more demand to TLV than PHL, not even a comparison unfortunately.


According to random Google searches, the Jewish population is 3x that in the PHL metro area vs Miami. In fact, once you leave Miami Beach, the Jewish population thins out rapidly in Dade County. The bottom line is, AA has been giving PHL the short end of the stick, ever since COVID. While I am sure that MIA probably has a lot more transiting feed ex- South America, I would say O & D is probably stronger in PHL. From everything I read/heard, when US and AA did PHL-TLV, the loads were good, but yields were marginal and AA thought the A332s dedicated to the route could have been better utilized elsewhere.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26649
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:39 am

crownvic wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Well today’s news was just great...

Yea, well MIA has much more demand to TLV than PHL, not even a comparison unfortunately.


According to random Google searches, the Jewish population is 3x that in the PHL metro area vs Miami. In fact, once you leave Miami Beach, the Jewish population thins out rapidly in Dade County. The bottom line is, AA has been giving PHL the short end of the stick, ever since COVID. While I am sure that MIA probably has a lot more transiting feed ex- South America, I would say O & D is probably stronger in PHL. From everything I read/heard, when US and AA did PHL-TLV, the loads were good, but yields were marginal and AA thought the A332s dedicated to the route could have been better utilized elsewhere.


Not sure where you get that info, the Jewish community in South Florida is massive and the third largest in the world outside Tel Aviv, and its more concentrated in Broward and Palm Beach who have less total but more as a percentage of the population.

Tel Aviv is one of Miami’s largest trans-Atlantic markets. More people fly between Miami and Tel Aviv in one month than between Philadelphia and Tel Aviv in one year. MIATLV is around 205 PDEW and PHLTLV is around 16 PDEW. It’s not a comparison. When US flew PHLTLV the market was naturally stimulated and larger but still only around 40 PDEW. El Al flies to Miami and naturally AA wants a piece if the market.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:50 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
So much for AA speak about PHL being the main TATL hub. Maybe in 2023 or 2024


I think they still consider this to be the case for PHL but they are just going where the current demand is right now especially for O & D. Outside of Florida and Caribbean I'm not sure where else PHL has demand to fly to as a whole that isn't already covered especially with AA.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4258
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:19 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
So much for AA speak about PHL being the main TATL hub. Maybe in 2023 or 2024

This isn't as much of a PHL issue as it is a Europe issue or US/Europe issue. US - Europe routes are being scaled back or suspended almost on a weekly basis as demonstrated in the OAG thread.
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