Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

PHLspecial · Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:52 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
So even more promising news from AA that they intend to fly the majority of a321xlrs from PHL once they arrive

https://www.flightglobal.com/networks/a ... 97.article

Just realize it's a paid wall that I was able to see at first.

Curious that a bunch of seasonal flights will use the a321xlr and flights like LIS, DBV will see x2 daily flights. I'm guess the slot constrain airports like LHR, CDG, AMS will see the widebody most others can be replaced with two a321xlrs.

usairways85 · Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:08 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
So even more promising news from AA that they intend to fly the majority of a321xlrs from PHL once they arrive

https://www.flightglobal.com/networks/a ... 97.article

Just realize it's a paid wall that I was able to see at first.

Curious that a bunch of seasonal flights will use the a321xlr and flights like LIS, DBV will see x2 daily flights. I'm guess the slot constrain airports like LHR, CDG, AMS will see the widebody most others can be replaced with two a321xlrs.

I still think they retired too many widebodies in COVID. Should have held onto the 332.

Multiple flights to some destinations is interesting, it would likely spread out the inbound/outbound TA flights at PHL.

Nicknuzzii · Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:12 pm

usairways85 wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
So even more promising news from AA that they intend to fly the majority of a321xlrs from PHL once they arrive

https://www.flightglobal.com/networks/a ... 97.article

Just realize it's a paid wall that I was able to see at first.

Curious that a bunch of seasonal flights will use the a321xlr and flights like LIS, DBV will see x2 daily flights. I'm guess the slot constrain airports like LHR, CDG, AMS will see the widebody most others can be replaced with two a321xlrs.

I still think they retired too many widebodies in COVID. Should have held onto the 332.

Multiple flights to some destinations is interesting, it would likely spread out the inbound/outbound TA flights at PHL.

I could see 2 banks almost. I’m not expecting any new route for next year but I think there should be some fun ones for 2023!

onwFan · Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:28 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
So even more promising news from AA that they intend to fly the majority of a321xlrs from PHL once they arrive

https://www.flightglobal.com/networks/a ... 97.article

Just realize it's a paid wall that I was able to see at first.

Curious that a bunch of seasonal flights will use the a321xlr and flights like LIS, DBV will see x2 daily flights. I'm guess the slot constrain airports like LHR, CDG, AMS will see the widebody most others can be replaced with two a321xlrs.

I don’t think they would use the A321XLRs to launch 2x daily to the same destinations. If anything, this will enable them to better balance the O&D at JFK and connecting traffic at PHL. The aircraft will enable them to fly to more destinations that the B787 is just too big for. They will spread out the flights and fly PHL-LIS/BRU/FRA/MUC/DUS/TXL/ZRH, some of which can then be served year-round.

Bigant0408 · Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:54 pm

I'm sure a lot of people hear already that Jetblue is cutting 27 routes in their network including PHL-MCO/RSW/PBI/TPA.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-m ... oute-cuts/

PHLspecial · Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:56 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people hear already that Jetblue is cutting 27 routes in their network including PHL-MCO/RSW/PBI/TPA.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-m ... oute-cuts/

I'm shocked that MCO didn't make it.

Bigant0408 · Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:11 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people hear already that Jetblue is cutting 27 routes in their network including PHL-MCO/RSW/PBI/TPA.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-m ... oute-cuts/

I'm shocked that MCO didn't make it.

I am and I'm not at the same time. Granted MCO has always been a top route overall for PHL I've been seeing the B6 route for the summer flying on a E190 instead of a A320 which kind of told me something about the performance.

FLYKTPA · Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:24 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people hear already that Jetblue is cutting 27 routes in their network including PHL-MCO/RSW/PBI/TPA.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-m ... oute-cuts/

I'm shocked that MCO didn't make it.

I am and I'm not at the same time. Granted MCO has always been a top route overall for PHL I've been seeing the B6 route for the summer flying on a E190 instead of a A320 which kind of told me something about the performance.

Certainly easy to fill, but at dirt cheap fares. Fares that Frontier and Spirit don’t mind, but JetBlue probably breaks even or loses money on them. Their cost structure is different than a ULCC.

usairways85 · Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:25 pm

PHL-MCO also has a lot of fare pressure from F9/NK with a lot of capacity. Combined NK/F9 amount to 4-6 flts/day with up to 6-10 planned when traffic continues to rebound.

doulasc · Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:36 am

PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people hear already that Jetblue is cutting 27 routes in their network including PHL-MCO/RSW/PBI/TPA.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-m ... oute-cuts/

I'm shocked that MCO didn't make it.

But JetBlue will still keep PHL-BOS/FLL and SJU.?

FlyingSicilian · Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:17 am

usairways85 wrote:
PHL-MCO also has a lot of fare pressure from F9/NK with a lot of capacity. Combined NK/F9 amount to 4-6 flts/day with up to 6-10 planned when traffic continues to rebound.

And IIRC (I left South Jersey/Philly area just as COVID hit so my experiences and data are likely dated) F9/NK fly from TTN and ACY to Orlando also, not to mention more distant greater metro area "leakage" to EWR or even BWI to save a buck or two.

Bigant0408 · Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:58 pm

doulasc wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people hear already that Jetblue is cutting 27 routes in their network including PHL-MCO/RSW/PBI/TPA.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-m ... oute-cuts/

I'm shocked that MCO didn't make it.

But JetBlue will still keep PHL-BOS/FLL and SJU.?

As of now that's what it looks like. I believe SJU is safe because it did fairly well and even though F9/NK/AA fly the route as well they are not flying as many daily routes as they are to MCO for example.

usairways85 · Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:14 pm

It would be really interesting to dive into the PHL-SJU market over the last 5-10-20 years. It was once 1-2x on AA and 2-3x flts/day on US going back 20 years when AA had the SJU hub. Then for years it was only US (then AA) with 2-4x with the 332/333 mixed in. Now it's 4 airlines with 7x flts/day

PHLspecial · Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:49 am

PHL announces Philadelphia International Airport, West Cargo Redevelopment and Expansion Plan project.

PHL will expand its current cargo space from 600,000 sqft to 1.4 million sqft using the land purchase in 2018 to the west of the airport.

https://www.phl.org/newsroom/cargo-expansion.

BENFRANKLIN · Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:03 am

PHLspecial wrote:
PHL announces Philadelphia International Airport, West Cargo Redevelopment and Expansion Plan project.

PHL will expand its current cargo space from 600,000 sqft to 1.4 million sqft using the land purchase in 2018 to the west of the airport.

https://www.phl.org/newsroom/cargo-expansion.

This is great news! With everything slowly getting back to normal from COVID, Hopefully this is a push for other major international carriers to have service to KPHL. I expect a huge UPS & FedEx presence.

Delta28L · Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:55 am

BENFRANKLIN wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
PHL announces Philadelphia International Airport, West Cargo Redevelopment and Expansion Plan project.

PHL will expand its current cargo space from 600,000 sqft to 1.4 million sqft using the land purchase in 2018 to the west of the airport.

https://www.phl.org/newsroom/cargo-expansion.

This is great news! With everything slowly getting back to normal from COVID, Hopefully this is a push for other major international carriers to have service to KPHL. I expect a huge UPS & FedEx presence.

UPS already has a big ramp space on the SE side of the airport by the river. Plus PHL is already a hub for them. Fedex has a hub up the road in Newark unless they move it down to PHL.

PHLspecial · Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:57 am

Delta28L wrote:
BENFRANKLIN wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
PHL announces Philadelphia International Airport, West Cargo Redevelopment and Expansion Plan project.

PHL will expand its current cargo space from 600,000 sqft to 1.4 million sqft using the land purchase in 2018 to the west of the airport.

https://www.phl.org/newsroom/cargo-expansion.

This is great news! With everything slowly getting back to normal from COVID, Hopefully this is a push for other major international carriers to have service to KPHL. I expect a huge UPS & FedEx presence.

UPS already has a big ramp space on the SE side of the airport by the river. Plus PHL is already a hub for them. Fedex has a hub up the road in Newark unless they move it down to PHL.

I'm more looking at if PHL can attract other international carriers. PHL would be a gateway for European freight or even Asian carriers.

crownvic · Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:13 am

usairways85 wrote:
It would be really interesting to dive into the PHL-SJU market over the last 5-10-20 years. It was once 1-2x on AA and 2-3x flts/day on US going back 20 years when AA had the SJU hub. Then for years it was only US (then AA) with 2-4x with the 332/333 mixed in. Now it's 4 airlines with 7x flts/day

I say take it back 60 Years!

1960s:
Eastern DC-7 that transitioned to a DC-8 and then a DC-8S Daily
Pan Am 707/720B Daily

1970s:
Pan Am 707 that transitioned early to a 741 Daily
Eastern L10/A3B + 722 2x Daily

PHLspecial · Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:07 pm

To follow up, the some of the prep work is being done now but the major construction will start in 2022-2024 and the whole cargo city will be finished in 2029 for the project timeline.

I guess the east side of the airport was to expensive to acquire all the buildings plus they would have to cross runways 17-35 and 9L-27R. The west side was also closer to the deice pad as well.

usairways85 · Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:54 pm

Yea I think they are trying to attract more Prime Air, move DHL, Cargolux, Polar Air Cargo, Atlas, Qatar cargo, contract carriers (Western Global, Kalitta, SkyLease cargo) Asian cargo airlines like Cathay, Nippon, Korean, China Airlines

The Philadelphia Business Journal article mentioned that PHL is the #2 UPS hub behind SDF. UPS has grown a bit in PHL over the past few years, though it would be cool to see a PHL-ANC flight.

PHLspecial · Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:16 pm

https://www.aviationpros.com/airports/n ... ation=true

It this article it mentions a runway extension. I didn't read the whole document but I didn't see anything about a runway extension.
Article states PHL is looking to get 50 millions dollars for a runway extension.
I would assume that would mean extend 9L-27R to the east, but why?

PhillyAviation · Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:32 am

PHLspecial wrote:
https://www.aviationpros.com/airports/news/21226942/philadelphia-international-airport-announces-big-strategic-plan-to-expand-cargo-services?force_isolation=true

It this article it mentions a runway extension. I didn't read the whole document but I didn't see anything about a runway extension.
Article states PHL is looking to get 50 millions dollars for a runway extension.
I would assume that would mean extend 9L-27R to the east, but why?

I think this was a typo. What was meant was taxiway extensions to connect the cargo city development to the airfield; that portion may be eligible for federal/state grant money.

TheFlyGuy · Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:36 pm

Looks like AA is launching thrice weekly service between PHL and KIN beginning 12/5/2021.

Bigant0408 · Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:45 pm

TheFlyGuy wrote:
Looks like AA is launching thrice weekly service between PHL and KIN beginning 12/5/2021.

Yea I heard the other day. Great news overall for an actual brand new destination. I think it will do well

Bigant0408 · Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:00 pm

https://paxex.aero/frontier-st-maarten- ... expansion/

Promising news from Frontier. They eventually plan to expand into more of the Caribbean (mostly from Florida but the northeast as well) once more of their fleet is upgraded additional radio systems.

aerace · Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:43 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
https://paxex.aero/frontier-st-maarten-sxm-caribbean-expansion/

Promising news from Frontier. They eventually plan to expand into more of the Caribbean (mostly from Florida but the northeast as well) once more of their fleet is upgraded additional radio systems.

Yeah I feel that AA better watch F9 in this market because I would expect there could be a lot of opportunity out of PHL since so many people head south during the winter. Clearly they cemented their place in Florida, but I would love to see more competition on Caribbean routes.

Bigant0408 · Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:08 pm

aerace wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
https://paxex.aero/frontier-st-maarten-sxm-caribbean-expansion/

Promising news from Frontier. They eventually plan to expand into more of the Caribbean (mostly from Florida but the northeast as well) once more of their fleet is upgraded additional radio systems.

Yeah I feel that AA better watch F9 in this market because I would expect there could be a lot of opportunity out of PHL since so many people head south during the winter. Clearly they cemented their place in Florida, but I would love to see more competition on Caribbean routes.

I agree I think we will see big things from them within the next year or two.

tphuang · Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:14 pm

Island markets have high taxes. Really tough markets for ULCCs to work out. I'd think F9 would have more chances domestically.

Zidane · Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:13 pm

tphuang wrote:
Island markets have high taxes. Really tough markets for ULCCs to work out. I'd think F9 would have more chances domestically.

Agreed. There's also brand recognition amongst the local VFR who are more skewed to AA and B6.

jplatts · Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:22 am

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of PHL in April 2021:
ATL-PHL - 9569 passengers, 10652 seats, 89.83% load factor
BNA-PHL - 15868 passengers, 17744 seats, 89.43% load factor
DEN-PHL - 16916 passengers, 19152 seats, 88.32% load factor
FLL-PHL - 1010 passengers, 1272 seats, 79.40% load factor
MCO-PHL - 19340 passengers, 21916 seats, 88.25% load factor
MDW-PHL - 9682 passengers, 10974 seats, 88.23% load factor
PHL-STL - 2986 passengers, 3498 seats, 85.36% load factor
PHL-TPA - 4920 passengers, 5500 seats, 89.45% load factor

Bigant0408 · Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:31 pm

jplatts wrote:
Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of PHL in April 2021:
ATL-PHL - 9569 passengers, 10652 seats, 89.83% load factor
BNA-PHL - 15868 passengers, 17744 seats, 89.43% load factor
DEN-PHL - 16916 passengers, 19152 seats, 88.32% load factor
FLL-PHL - 1010 passengers, 1272 seats, 79.40% load factor
MCO-PHL - 19340 passengers, 21916 seats, 88.25% load factor
MDW-PHL - 9682 passengers, 10974 seats, 88.23% load factor
PHL-STL - 2986 passengers, 3498 seats, 85.36% load factor
PHL-TPA - 4920 passengers, 5500 seats, 89.45% load factor

Very decent load factors. Thanks for sharing this

Zbogart757 · Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:21 pm

Noticed this at PHL, E11/E13 used to have Southwest logos on the gates have been removed as well inside the terminal, does anyone have anymore info on this if anyone gonna be picking up these gates, my first thought would be Frontier.

PHLspecial · Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:51 pm

Zbogart757 wrote:
Noticed this at PHL, E11/E13 used to have Southwest logos on the gates have been removed as well inside the terminal, does anyone have anymore info on this if anyone gonna be picking up these gates, my first thought would be Frontier.

Could be? Though Spirit airlines is closer to that side of the gates.
I would agree with you because Spirit is very conservative with it's expansion.
One could be for Frontier than the other would be a common use. Just a guess.

usairways85 · Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:08 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Zbogart757 wrote:
Noticed this at PHL, E11/E13 used to have Southwest logos on the gates have been removed as well inside the terminal, does anyone have anymore info on this if anyone gonna be picking up these gates, my first thought would be Frontier.

Could be? Though Spirit airlines is closer to that side of the gates.
I would agree with you because Spirit is very conservative with it's expansion.
One could be for Frontier than the other would be a common use. Just a guess.

Probably just general use. These are the 7/28 departures and gates based on phl.org's flight information (which may not be completely accurate). But they are actually closer to F9s gates.

7/28 departures:
F9
22 flights
E6, E7, E8, E9, E10, D6 (1 departure)

NK
9 flights
E1, E3, E5

B6
5 flights
E2, E4

WN
12 flights
E12, E14, E15, E16, E17

lowfareair · Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:11 pm

AA has cut one of the CUN flights in the first halves of November and December. It seems odd, given that CUN has been popular this year and yields are high. In fact, about a third of the affected dates have one of the two remaining AA flights now appearing sold out. Maybe it was a glitch? Seems crazy to cut a flight when moving affected pax causes other flights to sell out up to 4.5 months ahead of time.

BangersAndMash · Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:28 pm

lowfareair wrote:
AA has cut one of the CUN flights in the first halves of November and December. It seems odd, given that CUN has been popular this year and yields are high. In fact, about a third of the affected dates have one of the two remaining AA flights now appearing sold out. Maybe it was a glitch? Seems crazy to cut a flight when moving affected pax causes other flights to sell out up to 4.5 months ahead of time.

Could be. AA seem to have had similar glitches after every recent schedule update. I would check again in a few days.

phllax · Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:47 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Zbogart757 wrote:
Noticed this at PHL, E11/E13 used to have Southwest logos on the gates have been removed as well inside the terminal, does anyone have anymore info on this if anyone gonna be picking up these gates, my first thought would be Frontier.

Could be? Though Spirit airlines is closer to that side of the gates.
I would agree with you because Spirit is very conservative with it's expansion.
One could be for Frontier than the other would be a common use. Just a guess.

I think those gates could only handle 700's at the same time, and not 800's/Max8's at the same time. With the reduced schedule and more of those in the system, it makes sense giving the up and only using them for RON arrivals if needed.

lowfareair · Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:06 am

phllax wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Zbogart757 wrote:
Noticed this at PHL, E11/E13 used to have Southwest logos on the gates have been removed as well inside the terminal, does anyone have anymore info on this if anyone gonna be picking up these gates, my first thought would be Frontier.

Could be? Though Spirit airlines is closer to that side of the gates.
I would agree with you because Spirit is very conservative with it's expansion.
One could be for Frontier than the other would be a common use. Just a guess.

I think those gates could only handle 700's at the same time, and not 800's/Max8's at the same time. With the reduced schedule and more of those in the system, it makes sense giving the up and only using them for RON arrivals if needed.

Is there an odd reason for that? Wingspan of the 73G/738 is exactly the same, and the wings is slightly further back on the 738s. Based on the angles of the gate, it should be easier to accommodate 738s.

Bigant0408 · Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:22 pm

As I'm sure most are aware F9 will start service to Nassau (NAS) as part of their 15 route expansion

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... op-routes/

Nicknuzzii · Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:26 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
As I'm sure most are aware F9 will start service to Nassau (NAS) as part of their 15 route expansion

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... op-routes/

Very good news for us. Only thing I’m a little concerned about is that it seems their priorities are focusing a little more on EWR.

Bigant0408 · Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:45 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
As I'm sure most are aware F9 will start service to Nassau (NAS) as part of their 15 route expansion

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... op-routes/

Very good news for us. Only thing I’m a little concerned about is that it seems their priorities are focusing a little more on EWR.

If we just focus on this expansion only even though EWR gain 3 routes and PHL gained 1, Montego Bay is already served seasonally from PHL so only thing missing would be the PLS route. I do agree though it's good news for PHL to have more competition on an international route outside of Cancun and Punta Cana IMO

usairways85 · Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:50 pm

Today is the first LH flight into PHL in a year and a half.

PHLspecial · Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:57 pm

usairways85 wrote:
Today is the first LH flight into PHL in a year and a half.

Love to see it. Glad that LH continues to serve this airport.

PHLspecial · Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:12 pm

Zbogart757 wrote:
Noticed this at PHL, E11/E13 used to have Southwest logos on the gates have been removed as well inside the terminal, does anyone have anymore info on this if anyone gonna be picking up these gates, my first thought would be Frontier.

Quick update, today it seems like Frontier is using gate E11 for arrivals and departures.

Zbogart757 · Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:45 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Zbogart757 wrote:
Noticed this at PHL, E11/E13 used to have Southwest logos on the gates have been removed as well inside the terminal, does anyone have anymore info on this if anyone gonna be picking up these gates, my first thought would be Frontier.

Quick update, today it seems like Frontier is using gate E11 for arrivals and departures.

I did see that as well walking into terminal F this morning, I’ll have to walk on over to E and see if they have any F9 marking in the gate area.

Bigant0408 · Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:20 pm

With Qatar grounding 13 350 airbuses I checked the PHL route on their website and it shows a 777-300ER being used

usairways85 · Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:45 pm

QR, BA, and LH all inbound into PHL today.

Bigant0408 · Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:55 pm

usairways85 wrote:
QR, BA, and LH all inbound into PHL today.

Finally getting back to some normalcy internationally. Hopefully Aer Lingus decides to come back as well at some point.

Zbogart757 · Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:02 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Zbogart757 wrote:
Noticed this at PHL, E11/E13 used to have Southwest logos on the gates have been removed as well inside the terminal, does anyone have anymore info on this if anyone gonna be picking up these gates, my first thought would be Frontier.

Quick update, today it seems like Frontier is using gate E11 for arrivals and departures.

Looks like F9 officially took over E11, F9 signs on that gate area and with E13 the B737 marketing were removed.

phljjs · Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:11 am

BA is still just freighter service. Passenger flights won't begin until early September.

QR notified the PHL Stakeholders of the equipment swap to the 777 for the entire month of August on Monday or Tuesday, but did not provide a reason for the switch.

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