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trexel94
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:44 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:55 pm

KCaviator wrote:
Did MCI-IND come back?


Not yet but from multiple sources here and elsewhere it’s in the works. We’ll see.
 
KCaviator
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:53 pm

strangeplanes wrote:
twice daily on the new LGA flight


AA cut one of the flights before it even began. Only showing 1x daily now. Won't be surprised when AA cuts this route completely yet again.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4510
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:58 pm

KCaviator wrote:
strangeplanes wrote:
twice daily on the new LGA flight


AA cut one of the flights before it even began. Only showing 1x daily now. Won't be surprised when AA cuts this route completely yet again.


I still see 2 except for Saturdays. What date are you looking at?
 
KCaviator
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:40 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
KCaviator wrote:
strangeplanes wrote:
twice daily on the new LGA flight


AA cut one of the flights before it even began. Only showing 1x daily now. Won't be surprised when AA cuts this route completely yet again.


I still see 2 except for Saturdays. What date are you looking at?


You're right. I originally looked at Aug 18th, so apparently Wednesday's are only 1x daily as well.
 
QXorVX
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:45 am

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:24 am

KCaviator wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
KCaviator wrote:

AA cut one of the flights before it even began. Only showing 1x daily now. Won't be surprised when AA cuts this route completely yet again.


I still see 2 except for Saturdays. What date are you looking at?


You're right. I originally looked at Aug 18th, so apparently Wednesday's are only 1x daily as well.


This was originally going to begin September 8, did I miss the move up in start date?
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4510
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:32 am

KCaviator wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
KCaviator wrote:

AA cut one of the flights before it even began. Only showing 1x daily now. Won't be surprised when AA cuts this route completely yet again.


I still see 2 except for Saturdays. What date are you looking at?


You're right. I originally looked at Aug 18th, so apparently Wednesday's are only 1x daily as well.


They went thru at at some point at least semi recently and took out some
Tuesday/Wednesday frequencies on flights across the system. Added some to other days.
 
KCaviator
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:31 pm

QXorVX wrote:
KCaviator wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

I still see 2 except for Saturdays. What date are you looking at?


You're right. I originally looked at Aug 18th, so apparently Wednesday's are only 1x daily as well.


This was originally going to begin September 8, did I miss the move up in start date?


Not sure it was ever announced, but it's set to start Aug 18th now.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4889
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:38 pm

KCaviator wrote:
Not sure it was ever announced, but it's set to start Aug 18th now.


AA announced plans to resume MCI-LGA nonstop service in an announcement that can be found at https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx.
 
KCaviator
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:52 pm

jplatts wrote:
KCaviator wrote:
Not sure it was ever announced, but it's set to start Aug 18th now.


AA announced plans to resume MCI-LGA nonstop service in an announcement that can be found at https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx.


I wasn't referring to the original announcement. It was never announced that the start date had changed. The link you sent has the start date as Sept 8, which is no longer correct. The actual start date is now Aug 18th.
 
evank516
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Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:51 pm

So with AA restarting LGA-MCI and DL on it 2-4x, and then WN coming back with it sometime in the fall, this route gets competitive. Factor in B6 starting JFK next year I wonder if DL will make some
upgauges on this. They’ve been solid on this route for years and now they have to go up against a rather large alliance on their turf (NYC).
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:59 pm

Yep, this is sure going to get interesting. Any chance DL launches JFK too?
 
jplatts
Posts: 4889
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:21 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
Yep, this is sure going to get interesting. Any chance DL launches JFK too?


DL adding MCI-JFK nonstop service might be a possibility with MCI being the 2nd largest market in the U.S. (after STL) that doesn't currently have any nonstop service to JFK.

ORD, CVG, CMH, CLE, DTW, IND, and MSP in the Midwest also already have nonstop service to JFK.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6637
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:17 am

evank516 wrote:
So with AA restarting LGA-MCI and DL on it 2-4x, and then WN coming back with it sometime in the fall, this route gets competitive. Factor in B6 starting JFK next year I wonder if DL will make some
upgauges on this. They’ve been solid on this route for years and now they have to go up against a rather large alliance on their turf (NYC).


Is there any reason NYC-MCI should be DL's turf? They are not that large in MCI, comparable in size to AA. With B6/AS codeshares, AA will have the best network out of MCI for business flyers.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4510
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:28 am

tphuang wrote:
evank516 wrote:
So with AA restarting LGA-MCI and DL on it 2-4x, and then WN coming back with it sometime in the fall, this route gets competitive. Factor in B6 starting JFK next year I wonder if DL will make some
upgauges on this. They’ve been solid on this route for years and now they have to go up against a rather large alliance on their turf (NYC).


Is there any reason NYC-MCI should be DL's turf? They are not that large in MCI, comparable in size to AA. With B6/AS codeshares, AA will have the best network out of MCI for business flyers.


When you are the only airline who has been flying it, I’d say it’s your turf.

That said, Delta hasn't done itself any favors lately letting AA back in. It will be interesting to see if they try to defend any. They were quite a bit bigger pre covid than AA and had a better route map (NYC/BOS/LAX/SEA). But things are changing.
 
evank516
Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:00 am

Jshank83 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
evank516 wrote:
So with AA restarting LGA-MCI and DL on it 2-4x, and then WN coming back with it sometime in the fall, this route gets competitive. Factor in B6 starting JFK next year I wonder if DL will make some
upgauges on this. They’ve been solid on this route for years and now they have to go up against a rather large alliance on their turf (NYC).


Is there any reason NYC-MCI should be DL's turf? They are not that large in MCI, comparable in size to AA. With B6/AS codeshares, AA will have the best network out of MCI for business flyers.


When you are the only airline who has been flying it, I’d say it’s your turf.

That said, Delta hasn't done itself any favors lately letting AA back in. It will be interesting to see if they try to defend any. They were quite a bit bigger pre covid than AA and had a better route map (NYC/BOS/LAX/SEA). But things are changing.


Exactly, NYC-MCI on DL has had the least interruption in service than it’s competitors. DL has been retaliating against AA/B6 on other NY routes. In fact the market will soon be served by more carriers than NYC-STL come Q2 of 2022. Delta’s advantage is it’s A220-100s for this. AA doesn’t have it, B6 will have 220-300s but even so those may even be big. The YX base at MCI is gone so that doesn’t hold them off anymore.

In addition, DL has since re-upgauged MSP, DTW, and LAX back to mainline in the last month.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6637
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:09 pm

evank516 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Is there any reason NYC-MCI should be DL's turf? They are not that large in MCI, comparable in size to AA. With B6/AS codeshares, AA will have the best network out of MCI for business flyers.


When you are the only airline who has been flying it, I’d say it’s your turf.

That said, Delta hasn't done itself any favors lately letting AA back in. It will be interesting to see if they try to defend any. They were quite a bit bigger pre covid than AA and had a better route map (NYC/BOS/LAX/SEA). But things are changing.


Exactly, NYC-MCI on DL has had the least interruption in service than it’s competitors. DL has been retaliating against AA/B6 on other NY routes. In fact the market will soon be served by more carriers than NYC-STL come Q2 of 2022. Delta’s advantage is it’s A220-100s for this. AA doesn’t have it, B6 will have 220-300s but even so those may even be big. The YX base at MCI is gone so that doesn’t hold them off anymore.

In addition, DL has since re-upgauged MSP, DTW, and LAX back to mainline in the last month.


A220-100 does not magically cure everything. It only has 109 seats. Whether DL operates a A220-100 or a mix of B717 and RJs on a route, that's not going to have much relevance on the profitability off its competitors.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4889
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:16 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Is there any reason NYC-MCI should be DL's turf? They are not that large in MCI, comparable in size to AA. With B6/AS codeshares, AA will have the best network out of MCI for business flyers.


When you are the only airline who has been flying it, I’d say it’s your turf.

That said, Delta hasn't done itself any favors lately letting AA back in. It will be interesting to see if they try to defend any. They were quite a bit bigger pre covid than AA and had a better route map (NYC/BOS/LAX/SEA). But things are changing.


AA re-adding MCI-LAX nonstop service is a possibility with AA having recently re-added MCI-LGA nonstop service and with LAX being the only other remaining AA hub (other than JFK) that AA doesn't currently serve nonstop from MCI.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4889
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:21 pm

tphuang wrote:
A220-100 does not magically cure everything. It only has 109 seats. Whether DL operates a A220-100 or a mix of B717 and RJs on a route, that's not going to have much relevance on the profitability off its competitors.


I agree with your point, even though WN would be able to offer through or connecting service to some beyond-LGA perimeter destinations such as AUS, LAX, LAS, OAK, PHX, and SAN from its LGA-MCI nonstop flights (similar to the connecting and through service that WN previously offered to MDW, IND, MKE, and MSP from DAL through MCI prior to WN adding DAL-MDW/IND/MKE/MSP nonstop service).

DL also offers connections to BGR, BOS, BTV, MVY, ACK, and PWM in New England through LGA, and some of the passengers on DL's LGA-MCI nonstop flights are making connections to New England destinations through LGA.
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:13 pm

jplatts wrote:

I agree with your point, even though WN would be able to offer through or connecting service to some beyond-LGA perimeter destinations such as AUS, LAX, LAS, OAK, PHX, and SAN from its LGA-MCI nonstop flights (similar to the connecting and through service that WN previously offered to MDW, IND, MKE, and MSP from DAL through MCI prior to WN adding DAL-MDW/IND/MKE/MSP nonstop service).

DL also offers connections to BGR, BOS, BTV, MVY, ACK, and PWM in New England through LGA, and some of the passengers on DL's LGA-MCI nonstop flights are making connections to New England destinations through LGA.


The problem for WN though is that they're nobody in NYC. They rely heavily on MCI POS, and I'm not sure connections beyond MCI amount to all that much.

Both DL and AA/B6 can tap into a much larger and much higher yielding customer base in NYC, and neither are shabby in MCI either.

Advantage to the legacies here.
 
Lootess
Posts: 712
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:20 pm

tphuang wrote:
evank516 wrote:
So with AA restarting LGA-MCI and DL on it 2-4x, and then WN coming back with it sometime in the fall, this route gets competitive. Factor in B6 starting JFK next year I wonder if DL will make some
upgauges on this. They’ve been solid on this route for years and now they have to go up against a rather large alliance on their turf (NYC).


Is there any reason NYC-MCI should be DL's turf? They are not that large in MCI, comparable in size to AA. With B6/AS codeshares, AA will have the best network out of MCI for business flyers.


Uh Delta was flying this route solo for years, along with MCI-JFK when they merged with NW.

Southwest had no LGA slots yet, and so this was an easy monopoly why should they fold when there is steady business travel between both cities?
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:47 pm

Well, if I was a betting man, I'd say WN blinks first.
 
KCaviator
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:33 pm

Speaking of B6 and JFK, when will we hear a start date for that route along with BOS?
 
evank516
Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:46 pm

tphuang wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

When you are the only airline who has been flying it, I’d say it’s your turf.

That said, Delta hasn't done itself any favors lately letting AA back in. It will be interesting to see if they try to defend any. They were quite a bit bigger pre covid than AA and had a better route map (NYC/BOS/LAX/SEA). But things are changing.


Exactly, NYC-MCI on DL has had the least interruption in service than it’s competitors. DL has been retaliating against AA/B6 on other NY routes. In fact the market will soon be served by more carriers than NYC-STL come Q2 of 2022. Delta’s advantage is it’s A220-100s for this. AA doesn’t have it, B6 will have 220-300s but even so those may even be big. The YX base at MCI is gone so that doesn’t hold them off anymore.

In addition, DL has since re-upgauged MSP, DTW, and LAX back to mainline in the last month.


A220-100 does not magically cure everything. It only has 109 seats. Whether DL operates a A220-100 or a mix of B717 and RJs on a route, that's not going to have much relevance on the profitability off its competitors.


I didn’t say it does, but it offers a superior product on a route that is about to get very competitive when it has been a monopoly for many years on and off. Once AA and WN rejoin the mix how else will DL stand out, and when B6 enters next year with a product superior to the E-Jets that DL and AA have, and even the 737s that WN operates, how else will DL stand out especially if they have to tank airfares?

It has long been said by DL that the A220-100 is optimal
to upgauge long, thin RJ routes and this is exactly what LGA-MCI is. In addition, the A220 is already on SLC-MCI so it is a good way to transfer the aircraft between hubs.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4889
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:30 pm

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of MCI in April 2021:
ATL-MCI - 7992 passengers, 9888 seats, 80.83% load factor
BNA-MCI - 20832 passengers, 24926 seats, 83.58% load factor
BWI-MCI - 11795 passengers, 15947 seats, 73.96% load factor
DAL-MCI - 23673 passengers, 27993 seats, 84.57% load factor
DCA-MCI - 2286 passengers, 3146 seats, 72.66% load factor
DEN-MCI - 32661 passengers, 40612 seats, 80.42% load factor
ECP-MCI - 519 passengers, 636 seats, 81.60% load factor
FLL-MCI - 5632 passengers, 8682 seats, 64.87% load factor
HOU-MCI - 12455 passengers, 15249 seats, 81.68% load factor
LAS-MCI - 21165 passengers, 25752 seats, 82.19% load factor
LAX-MCI - 7007 passengers, 7884 seats, 88.88% load factor
MCI-MCO - 16933 passengers, 20476 seats, 82.70% load factor
MCI-MDW - 24285 passengers, 29546 seats, 82.19% load factor
MCI-MSY - 430 passengers, 572 seats, 75.17% load factor
MCI-OAK - 6719 passengers, 7788 seats, 86.27% load factor
MCI-PHX - 30409 passengers, 37001 seats, 82.18% load factor
MCI-PNS - 689 passengers, 843 seats, 81.73% load factor
MCI-RSW - 7834 passengers, 10381 seats, 75.46% load factor
MCI-SAN - 416 passengers, 636 seats, 65.41% load factor
MCI-STL - 10922 passengers, 14891 seats, 73.35% load factor
MCI-TPA - 6873 passengers, 8646 seats, 79.49% load factor
 
tphuang
Posts: 6637
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:54 am

Lootess wrote:
tphuang wrote:
evank516 wrote:
So with AA restarting LGA-MCI and DL on it 2-4x, and then WN coming back with it sometime in the fall, this route gets competitive. Factor in B6 starting JFK next year I wonder if DL will make some
upgauges on this. They’ve been solid on this route for years and now they have to go up against a rather large alliance on their turf (NYC).


Is there any reason NYC-MCI should be DL's turf? They are not that large in MCI, comparable in size to AA. With B6/AS codeshares, AA will have the best network out of MCI for business flyers.


Uh Delta was flying this route solo for years, along with MCI-JFK when they merged with NW.

Southwest had no LGA slots yet, and so this was an easy monopoly why should they fold when there is steady business travel between both cities?


Sure, but the people flying on this routes are mostly not beholden to DL. with COVID, at least medium term dip in corporate traffic and reset on a lot of elite statuses, people are likely to pick the airline that suits their schedule the best rather than which airline has been operating on this route the longest.

By next summer, AA and its codeshares will have much better coverage out of MCI than DL does.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4889
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:05 am

tphuang wrote:
By next summer, AA and its codeshares will have much better coverage out of MCI than DL does.


Even though AA and DL both have hubs at LAX, MCI currently has nonstop service to LAX on DL, WN, and NK but not AA, and AA hasn't yet added MCI-LAX nonstop service.

I had previously mentioned the possibility of AA re-adding MCI-LAX nonstop service with AA having recently re-added MCI-LGA nonstop service, and AA had a bigger presence at LAX than DL did in 2019.
 
evank516
Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:44 am

tphuang wrote:
Lootess wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Is there any reason NYC-MCI should be DL's turf? They are not that large in MCI, comparable in size to AA. With B6/AS codeshares, AA will have the best network out of MCI for business flyers.


Uh Delta was flying this route solo for years, along with MCI-JFK when they merged with NW.

Southwest had no LGA slots yet, and so this was an easy monopoly why should they fold when there is steady business travel between both cities?


Sure, but the people flying on this routes are mostly not beholden to DL. with COVID, at least medium term dip in corporate traffic and reset on a lot of elite statuses, people are likely to pick the airline that suits their schedule the best rather than which airline has been operating on this route the longest.

By next summer, AA and its codeshares will have much better coverage out of MCI than DL does.


You’re saying that DL isn’t going to try and retain its customer base by offering a better product on a cost efficient aircraft after going from the main carrier on this route to one of 3, soon to be 4? I highly doubt that. I don’t see this being as much about MCI as it is about NYC. MCI will just benefit from the effort to defend New York.

DL is actually number 2 at MCI after WN. They’ve upgauged DTW, SLC, and MSP all back to mainline. They’re in a position to defend their turf in NY.
 
Lootess
Posts: 712
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:31 am

evank516 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Lootess wrote:

Uh Delta was flying this route solo for years, along with MCI-JFK when they merged with NW.

Southwest had no LGA slots yet, and so this was an easy monopoly why should they fold when there is steady business travel between both cities?


Sure, but the people flying on this routes are mostly not beholden to DL. with COVID, at least medium term dip in corporate traffic and reset on a lot of elite statuses, people are likely to pick the airline that suits their schedule the best rather than which airline has been operating on this route the longest.

By next summer, AA and its codeshares will have much better coverage out of MCI than DL does.


You’re saying that DL isn’t going to try and retain its customer base by offering a better product on a cost efficient aircraft after going from the main carrier on this route to one of 3, soon to be 4? I highly doubt that. I don’t see this being as much about MCI as it is about NYC. MCI will just benefit from the effort to defend New York.

DL is actually number 2 at MCI after WN. They’ve upgauged DTW, SLC, and MSP all back to mainline. They’re in a position to defend their turf in NY.


Yep, many forget WN and DL have always been the largest carriers at MCI. Plus they have competing against AS on SEA even if it's E175 but I'm sure they will up-gauge that eventually. Anyone thinking they will fold at LGA hub makes me laugh, there is a lot of business between these two centers of commerce.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6637
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:32 am

evank516 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Lootess wrote:

Uh Delta was flying this route solo for years, along with MCI-JFK when they merged with NW.

Southwest had no LGA slots yet, and so this was an easy monopoly why should they fold when there is steady business travel between both cities?


Sure, but the people flying on this routes are mostly not beholden to DL. with COVID, at least medium term dip in corporate traffic and reset on a lot of elite statuses, people are likely to pick the airline that suits their schedule the best rather than which airline has been operating on this route the longest.

By next summer, AA and its codeshares will have much better coverage out of MCI than DL does.


You’re saying that DL isn’t going to try and retain its customer base by offering a better product on a cost efficient aircraft after going from the main carrier on this route to one of 3, soon to be 4? I highly doubt that. I don’t see this being as much about MCI as it is about NYC. MCI will just benefit from the effort to defend New York.

DL is actually number 2 at MCI after WN. They’ve upgauged DTW, SLC, and MSP all back to mainline. They’re in a position to defend their turf in NY.


I'm saying what DL will do here is quite limited, because this is one of the many routes AA/B6 added. In fact, DL already made their retaliation moves. I'm also saying that long term, there is no reason DL will definitely be the strongest carrier here. And there is no reason AA cannot be the top legacy carrier here in terms of ff base over the next few years if they and partner airlines serve more markets than DL.

It's a theme that's kind of playing out across quite a few markets right now.
 
trexel94
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:44 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:38 pm

Speaking of reinstating service now that the MAX is back, FI recently announced their return to BWI which was added then cancelled roughly around the same time as it was for MCI.

I know the loads weren’t “great” on the 757 but from what I’ve inferred, FI never intended to cancel MCI until the MAX groundings which would have made the route much more economically viable. Any chance or perhaps inside muttering that they’ll return?

Also other midwestern cities are ramping up strategies to lure full service TATL flights (BA, DE etc). What are we doing to bring in BA? CHM and IND have strategies yet have far less profit and yield potential than MCI. I feel that we put in such minimal effort in developing int air service compared to peer cities.
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:21 pm

trexel94 wrote:
Speaking of reinstating service now that the MAX is back, FI recently announced their return to BWI which was added then cancelled roughly around the same time as it was for MCI.

I know the loads weren’t “great” on the 757 but from what I’ve inferred, FI never intended to cancel MCI until the MAX groundings which would have made the route much more economically viable. Any chance or perhaps inside muttering that they’ll return?

Also other midwestern cities are ramping up strategies to lure full service TATL flights (BA, DE etc). What are we doing to bring in BA? CHM and IND have strategies yet have far less profit and yield potential than MCI. I feel that we put in such minimal effort in developing int air service compared to peer cities.


As far as BA's concerned, I wouldn't be overly optimistic. It's the best shot for MCI, but I'd say unlikely in the short to medium term.

Obvious hole for BA is PDX. I'd say this would be the first add we're likely to see. It's not overly competitive to Europe and AS is the dominant carrier, so plenty of O&D and some feed opportunities as well.

Beyond that, follow AA's adds. They tell you where priorities are. IND and STL, in that order, I'd say. CVG as well, but I feel DL is too strong and would provide too much indirect competition. BA won't like that.

Once these are out of the way, show time!

Then again, we've seen weirder going-ons lately.
 
FLYKTPA
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:36 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
trexel94 wrote:
Speaking of reinstating service now that the MAX is back, FI recently announced their return to BWI which was added then cancelled roughly around the same time as it was for MCI.

I know the loads weren’t “great” on the 757 but from what I’ve inferred, FI never intended to cancel MCI until the MAX groundings which would have made the route much more economically viable. Any chance or perhaps inside muttering that they’ll return?

Also other midwestern cities are ramping up strategies to lure full service TATL flights (BA, DE etc). What are we doing to bring in BA? CHM and IND have strategies yet have far less profit and yield potential than MCI. I feel that we put in such minimal effort in developing int air service compared to peer cities.


As far as BA's concerned, I wouldn't be overly optimistic. It's the best shot for MCI, but I'd say unlikely in the short to medium term.

Obvious hole for BA is PDX. I'd say this would be the first add we're likely to see. It's not overly competitive to Europe and AS is the dominant carrier, so plenty of O&D and some feed opportunities as well.

Beyond that, follow AA's adds. They tell you where priorities are. IND and STL, in that order, I'd say. CVG as well, but I feel DL is too strong and would provide too much indirect competition. BA won't like that.

Once these are out of the way, show time!

Then again, we've seen weirder going-ons lately.


BA actually announced PDX and was set to start summer 2020.. but you know Covid and all…
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:43 pm

FLYKTPA wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
trexel94 wrote:
Speaking of reinstating service now that the MAX is back, FI recently announced their return to BWI which was added then cancelled roughly around the same time as it was for MCI.

I know the loads weren’t “great” on the 757 but from what I’ve inferred, FI never intended to cancel MCI until the MAX groundings which would have made the route much more economically viable. Any chance or perhaps inside muttering that they’ll return?

Also other midwestern cities are ramping up strategies to lure full service TATL flights (BA, DE etc). What are we doing to bring in BA? CHM and IND have strategies yet have far less profit and yield potential than MCI. I feel that we put in such minimal effort in developing int air service compared to peer cities.


As far as BA's concerned, I wouldn't be overly optimistic. It's the best shot for MCI, but I'd say unlikely in the short to medium term.

Obvious hole for BA is PDX. I'd say this would be the first add we're likely to see. It's not overly competitive to Europe and AS is the dominant carrier, so plenty of O&D and some feed opportunities as well.

Beyond that, follow AA's adds. They tell you where priorities are. IND and STL, in that order, I'd say. CVG as well, but I feel DL is too strong and would provide too much indirect competition. BA won't like that.

Once these are out of the way, show time!

Then again, we've seen weirder going-ons lately.


BA actually announced PDX and was set to start summer 2020.. but you know Covid and all…


I know. But it's such a no brainer. And with AS now formally in Oneworld, makes it even more obvious. They'll be back there for sure.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4510
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:54 pm

trexel94 wrote:

Also other midwestern cities are ramping up strategies to lure full service TATL flights (BA, DE etc). What are we doing to bring in BA? CHM and IND have strategies yet have far less profit and yield potential than MCI. I feel that we put in such minimal effort in developing int air service compared to peer cities.


It helps when you have the state doling out money to help. That doesn’t happen in Missouri so it’s all on locals. STL is finally getting serious about getting money lined up. Hopefully KC is also.
 
trexel94
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:44 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:56 pm

MCI is now uploaded into B6 booking portal for reservations. March 27th is the start date. Both routes to be served by the A223.

JFK - MCI #2221
3:25pm - 5:55pm

MCI - JFK #2222
10:20am - 2:25pm

BOS - MCI #2363
7:00am - 9:34am

MCI - BOS #2364
6:40pm - 10:34pm
 
evank516
Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:11 pm

Is anyone else concerned that there’s no connection to their London service with either of these flights? I would have thought that would have been done somehow.

Surprised to see them jump right to the A220 over the E-190 though.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4510
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:27 pm

evank516 wrote:
Is anyone else concerned that there’s no connection to their London service with either of these flights? I would have thought that would have been done somehow.

Surprised to see them jump right to the A220 over the E-190 though.


It shows an option for me MCI-JFK-LGW. 5 hour layover though at JFK.
 
evank516
Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:48 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Is anyone else concerned that there’s no connection to their London service with either of these flights? I would have thought that would have been done somehow.

Surprised to see them jump right to the A220 over the E-190 though.


It shows an option for me MCI-JFK-LGW. 5 hour layover though at JFK.


There’s a lot of connecting points I’m not seeing for them. They will need the feed they can’t just rely on O&D for this. The only thing that bodes well for them is their product which is worlds ahead of DL, AA, and WN.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6637
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:41 pm

evank516 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Is anyone else concerned that there’s no connection to their London service with either of these flights? I would have thought that would have been done somehow.

Surprised to see them jump right to the A220 over the E-190 though.


It shows an option for me MCI-JFK-LGW. 5 hour layover though at JFK.


There’s a lot of connecting points I’m not seeing for them. They will need the feed they can’t just rely on O&D for this. The only thing that bodes well for them is their product which is worlds ahead of DL, AA, and WN.


TATL flights at JFK start at 6 PM. That's just a 3 and half layover. Factor in the flagship lounge at JFK, there are quite a few international flights it can connect to. On top of that, this will be the only flight on JFK-MCI. There is some demand for that too. They are clearly not chasing the Manhattan business crowd with just 1 flight.
 
strangeplanes
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:55 pm

evank516 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Is anyone else concerned that there’s no connection to their London service with either of these flights? I would have thought that would have been done somehow.

Surprised to see them jump right to the A220 over the E-190 though.


It shows an option for me MCI-JFK-LGW. 5 hour layover though at JFK.


There’s a lot of connecting points I’m not seeing for them. They will need the feed they can’t just rely on O&D for this. The only thing that bodes well for them is their product which is worlds ahead of DL, AA, and WN.


Is B6 A220 that much better than Delta A220?
 
evank516
Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:18 pm

strangeplanes wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

It shows an option for me MCI-JFK-LGW. 5 hour layover though at JFK.


There’s a lot of connecting points I’m not seeing for them. They will need the feed they can’t just rely on O&D for this. The only thing that bodes well for them is their product which is worlds ahead of DL, AA, and WN.


Is B6 A220 that much better than Delta A220?


Delta doesn’t fly the A220 on NYC-MCI, they fly the E170/175.
tphuang wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

It shows an option for me MCI-JFK-LGW. 5 hour layover though at JFK.


There’s a lot of connecting points I’m not seeing for them. They will need the feed they can’t just rely on O&D for this. The only thing that bodes well for them is their product which is worlds ahead of DL, AA, and WN.


TATL flights at JFK start at 6 PM. That's just a 3 and half layover. Factor in the flagship lounge at JFK, there are quite a few international flights it can connect to. On top of that, this will be the only flight on JFK-MCI. There is some demand for that too. They are clearly not chasing the Manhattan business crowd with just 1 flight.


Clearly they’re not. I was expecting to see 2 flights to JFK honestly. While their is some demand for JFK-MCI you’re missing some other areas of the northeast by limiting yourself to one flight.

Side note: it looks like they’re going to be scheduling the aircraft as BOS-MCI-JFK-MCI-BOS.
 
Cactus739
Posts: 2258
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:41 am

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:53 am

Anyone else planning on taking the JetBlue BOS inaugural?
 
jplatts
Posts: 4889
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:11 pm

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of MCI in May 2021:
ATL-MCI - 12605 passengers, 14389 seats, 87.60% load factor
BNA-MCI - 23541 passengers, 25620 seats, 91.89% load factor
BWI-MCI - 15184 passengers, 17025 seats, 89.19% load factor
DAL-MCI - 28220 passengers, 32439 seats, 86.99% load factor
DEN-MCI - 37613 passengers, 42277 seats, 88.97% load factor
ECP-MCI - 1786 passengers, 2162 seats, 82.61% load factor
FLL-MCI - 8626 passengers, 11367 seats, 75.89% load factor
HOU-MCI - 10823 passengers, 12259 seats, 88.29% load factor
LAS-MCI - 27496 passengers, 31427 seats, 87.49% load factor
LAX-MCI - 6951 passengers, 7500 seats, 92.68% load factor
MCI-MCO - 22798 passengers, 26755 seats, 85.21% load factor
MCI-MDW - 26913 passengers, 30129 seats, 89.33% load factor
MCI-OAK - 7697 passengers, 8204 seats, 93.82% load factor
MCI-PHX - 33336 passengers, 38476 seats, 86.64% load factor
MCI-PNS - 1510 passengers, 1750 seats, 86.29% load factor
MCI-RSW - 8262 passengers, 9950 seats, 83.04% load factor
MCI-SAN - 1586 passengers, 1765 seats, 89.86% load factor
MCI-STL - 13653 passengers, 18212 seats, 74.97% load factor
MCI-TPA - 10294 passengers, 11600 seats, 88.74% load factor
 
KCaviator
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:22 pm

The concession contract was announced yesterday and here are a few local establishments mentioned:

-Martin City Brewing
-Parisi Coffee
-Bo Lings
-City Market Coffee
-Brown & Loe

This is absolutely awesome. Love the local feel the new airport is going to have. This is going to be the crown jewel of the city.
 
FlapOperator
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:38 pm

KCaviator wrote:
The concession contract was announced yesterday and here are a few local establishments mentioned:

-Martin City Brewing
-Parisi Coffee
-Bo Lings
-City Market Coffee
-Brown & Loe

This is absolutely awesome. Love the local feel the new airport is going to have. This is going to be the crown jewel of the city.


For 3.8 billion bucks, it should.
 
KCaviator
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:56 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
KCaviator wrote:
The concession contract was announced yesterday and here are a few local establishments mentioned:

-Martin City Brewing
-Parisi Coffee
-Bo Lings
-City Market Coffee
-Brown & Loe

This is absolutely awesome. Love the local feel the new airport is going to have. This is going to be the crown jewel of the city.


For 3.8 billion bucks, it should.


Uh, it's not even costing half of that.
 
MatthewTKS
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:07 am

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:48 pm

KCaviator wrote:
The concession contract was announced yesterday and here are a few local establishments mentioned:

-Martin City Brewing
-Parisi Coffee
-Bo Lings
-City Market Coffee
-Brown & Loe

This is absolutely awesome. Love the local feel the new airport is going to have. This is going to be the crown jewel of the city.


The big question is what barbeque will they have? A number of BBQ restaurants have said they're not interested because of the challenges on-site.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4889
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:24 am

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of MCI in June 2021:
ATL-MCI - 14495 passengers, 16242 seats, 89.24% load factor
AUS-MCI - 7036 passengers, 7613 seats, 92.42% load factor
BNA-MCI - 24064 passengers, 25985 seats, 92.61% load factor
BWI-MCI - 15973 passengers, 17375 seats, 91.93% load factor
CHS-MCI - 747 passengers, 858 seats, 87.06% load factor
DAL-MCI - 30939 passengers, 35730 seats, 86.59% load factor
DEN-MCI - 35873 passengers, 40837 seats, 87.84% load factor
ECP-MCI - 3930 passengers, 5596 seats, 70.23% load factor
FLL-MCI - 7849 passengers, 10445 seats, 75.15% load factor
HOU-MCI - 8903 passengers, 9741 seats, 91.40% load factor
LAS-MCI - 24808 passengers, 27052 seats, 91.70% load factor
LAX-MCI - 11397 passengers, 13160 seats, 86.60% load factor
MCI-MCO - 24667 passengers, 28546 seats, 86.41% load factor
MCI-MDW - 31586 passengers, 35258 seats, 89.59% load factor
MCI-MIA - 368 passengers, 747 seats, 49.26% load factor
MCI-MYR - 1583 passengers, 2098 seats, 75.45% load factor
MCI-OAK - 8559 passengers, 9203 seats, 93.00% load factor
MCI-PDX - 797 passengers, 858 seats, 92.89% load factor
MCI-PHX - 27608 passengers, 30285 seats, 91.16% load factor
MCI-PNS - 5652 passengers, 7406 seats, 76.32% load factor
MCI-RSW - 8624 passengers, 10456 seats, 82.48% load factor
MCI-SAN - 6817 passengers, 7647 seats, 89.15% load factor
MCI-SAT - 1120 passengers, 1272 seats, 88.05% load factor
MCI-SEA - 765 passengers, 858 seats, 89.16% load factor
MCI-SNA - 6116 passengers, 7007 seats, 87.28% load factor
MCI-SRQ - 542 passengers, 858 seats, 63.17% load factor
MCI-STL - 14953 passengers, 17484 seats, 85.52% load factor
MCI-TPA - 12907 passengers, 15166 seats, 85.10% load factor
 
KCaviator
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:23 pm

MatthewTKS wrote:
KCaviator wrote:
The concession contract was announced yesterday and here are a few local establishments mentioned:

-Martin City Brewing
-Parisi Coffee
-Bo Lings
-City Market Coffee
-Brown & Loe

This is absolutely awesome. Love the local feel the new airport is going to have. This is going to be the crown jewel of the city.


The big question is what barbeque will they have? A number of BBQ restaurants have said they're not interested because of the challenges on-site.


A smart move, IMO. If they can't offer their product at the high standard everyone expects because of logistical hurdles, then a substandard product would only hurt their reputation. That's huge in an airport where it would be many people's first impression.
Last edited by KCaviator on Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3548
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Kansas City Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:29 pm

KCaviator wrote:
MatthewTKS wrote:
KCaviator wrote:
The concession contract was announced yesterday and here are a few local establishments mentioned:

-Martin City Brewing
-Parisi Coffee
-Bo Lings
-City Market Coffee
-Brown & Loe

This is absolutely awesome. Love the local feel the new airport is going to have. This is going to be the crown jewel of the city.


The big question is what barbeque will they have? A number of BBQ restaurants have said they're not interested because of the challenges on-site.


A smart move, IMO. If they can't offer their product at the standard everyone expects because of logistical hurdles, then a substandard product would only hurt their reputation. That's huge in an airport where it would be many people's first impression.


So they'll end up with a trash fast food like BQQ product (Zarda...), and everyone will "enjoy" that at the airport.

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