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BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:40 am

MAH4546 wrote:
I've heard Miami announcement could happen soon.


AS resuming SEA-MIA, I assume. Will PDX and SAN be in the mix too? Not a real surprise with oneworld membership in eight days.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:26 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
I've heard Miami announcement could happen soon.


AS resuming SEA-MIA, I assume. Will PDX and SAN be in the mix too? Not a real surprise with oneworld membership in eight days.


Does that mean AS would be serving both FLL and MIA?
 
QXorVX
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:42 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
I've heard Miami announcement could happen soon.


AS resuming SEA-MIA, I assume. Will PDX and SAN be in the mix too? Not a real surprise with oneworld membership in eight days.


Does that mean AS would be serving both FLL and MIA?


I would hope so. FLL ticks all the boxes for people traveling to the area for cruises and general tourism I think a little better than MIA does on its own, however considering its strength as an American hub I think that route could stand on its own without pulling too much away from the already established FLL market from SEA.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:51 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
I've heard Miami announcement could happen soon.


AS resuming SEA-MIA, I assume. Will PDX and SAN be in the mix too? Not a real surprise with oneworld membership in eight days.


AA already serves SEA-MIA as a redeye.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:55 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
I've heard Miami announcement could happen soon.


AS resuming SEA-MIA, I assume. Will PDX and SAN be in the mix too? Not a real surprise with oneworld membership in eight days.


AA already serves SEA-MIA as a redeye.


AA was often 2 daily SEA-MIA pre-pandemic. They either had two red-eyes a few hours apart or had one day flight and one red-eye. Doesn’t mean AS can’t fly it though.
 
AC4500
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:23 am

I don't think MIA will be announced from anywhere else other than SEA for now. PDX-FLL and SAN-FLL are currently suspended (ending 4/3). Not sure what that means for the possibility of PDX/SAN-MIA though.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:37 pm

I'm a bit confused by this talk about AS and MIA. Especially in regards to FLL. AS and B6 have been duking it out on the PDX/SAN-FLL routes for a few months now -- not only fighting with each other but trying to decide if either or both of them want to even serve the route. (In apparent indecision, AS has switched back and forth between year-round and seasonal on both of the routes since they began late last year.) B6 has served SAN-FLL for a couple of years now, pretty close to year-round but with lots of frequency variation according to the time of the year. Then of course COVID. PDX-FLL they started but have been fairly conservative with their schedules...

So with all this FLL-stuff going on, why all of a sudden are we hearing about AS going back to MIA -- as they served before switching over to Lauderdale a few years ago -- to compete with their soon-to-be OW partners AA? Or are we to assume AA will "turn over" all their w/c MIA routes to AS pretty much as as happened with AUS? Or will AS stay at both S Florida airports for some reason?

Seems to me it would be more sensible to split the So Florida territory with AS remaining at FLL and serving their w/c hubs while AA serves their w/c stations from the MIA airport (which happens to be one of their major hubs.) I guess I'm missing something here.

bb
 
dfw88
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:05 pm

SANFan wrote:
So with all this FLL-stuff going on, why all of a sudden are we hearing about AS going back to MIA -- as they served before switching over to Lauderdale a few years ago -- to compete with their soon-to-be OW partners AA? Or are we to assume AA will "turn over" all their w/c MIA routes to AS pretty much as as happened with AUS? Or will AS stay at both S Florida airports for some reason?

Seems to me it would be more sensible to split the So Florida territory with AS remaining at FLL and serving their w/c hubs while AA serves their w/c stations from the MIA airport (which happens to be one of their major hubs.) I guess I'm missing something here.

bb


My assumption would be that they want to codeshare beyond MIA on AA. They want to use SEA and PDX to gather pax from all over the PNW, send them to MIA, and connect them to AA's wide-ranging destinations in Latin America. They don't have those onward connections from FLL (unless they codeshare with someone else, but even then AA is quickly becoming their favorite codeshare partner with the OW tie-up).
 
QXorVX
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:35 pm

SANFan wrote:
...
So with all this FLL-stuff going on, why all of a sudden are we hearing about AS going back to MIA -- as they served before switching over to Lauderdale a few years ago -- to compete with their soon-to-be OW partners AA? Or are we to assume AA will "turn over" all their w/c MIA routes to AS pretty much as as happened with AUS? Or will AS stay at both S Florida airports for some reason?

Seems to me it would be more sensible to split the So Florida territory with AS remaining at FLL and serving their w/c hubs while AA serves their w/c stations from the MIA airport (which happens to be one of their major hubs.) I guess I'm missing something here.

bb


FLL provides a better experience for South Florida bound pax for sure, however I do not see a MIA flight exclusively fitting into the either category of a connection-only feed or tourism O/D flight. Without the AA hub in Miami, serving both does not make sense. Not serving MIA at all could also make sense considering AA operates the flight and I assume that flight also holds an AS flight number.

However, given the way pandemic route announcements have been going I think the utility of an AS flight to/from MIA would make more sense now than it would have in the past. AA/AS coexist on most of the other hub to hub routes outside of MIA, not suer why this one would be different - I guess with the exception AS already serves the region. But AS also serves DAL & DFW, one arguably better for local pax and the other better for connections. Passenger movement between SEA and MIA is bound to increase with the alliance, no reason they can't each take a portion with AS having the benefit of opening a new route and potentially gaining pax that otherwise would not have flown from FLL.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: AS Adds ANC-MSP

Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:32 am

Aliqiout wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
Only a small percentage of seats on any legacy flight go for the lowest price.


That's false. Most of what is sold in economy is in the two lowest buckets. People rarely will book up to a higher class unless it's absolutely necessary and will go to another carrier instead if they have cheaper seats.

No, it is not false....If you follow this site you will have seen many examples of one airline having higher load factors and higher average fares on particular flights. You will find AS and other legacies often matching other airlines in the midrange, but with higher fares early and late in the booking window. Don't forget AS also has premium seating, and first class. Alon many if those paying the lowest fares pay ancillary fees.

Legacy fares can change on a day to day basis, people don't only buy tickets on the days with the lowest fares.

New routes often begin with low fares to stimulate demand and awareness by showing up first on price based searches.

Undercutting competitors connection fares a year from now will be a certain sign of trouble.


Perhaps people don't catch fares on the days they are lowest, but they generally are booking in the lowest two buckets at any given time. After the introduction of basic economy, maybe 3-4, but most people will fly basic economy. The trick is to try and push fare increases on the 4 lowest buckets and then milk the midrange for all it's worth. Usually, if someone buys a midrange fare, it's because they're flying in an uncompetitive market and do not have any advance purchase (business flyers often buy those). In competitive markets, you will sometimes see AP on some fares reduced to 7 or 3, and those fares are usually still in the lowest buckets for inventory purposes.
 
atcdan
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Re: AS Adds ANC-MSP

Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:08 am

usdcaguy wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:

That's false. Most of what is sold in economy is in the two lowest buckets. People rarely will book up to a higher class unless it's absolutely necessary and will go to another carrier instead if they have cheaper seats.

No, it is not false....If you follow this site you will have seen many examples of one airline having higher load factors and higher average fares on particular flights. You will find AS and other legacies often matching other airlines in the midrange, but with higher fares early and late in the booking window. Don't forget AS also has premium seating, and first class. Alon many if those paying the lowest fares pay ancillary fees.

Legacy fares can change on a day to day basis, people don't only buy tickets on the days with the lowest fares.

New routes often begin with low fares to stimulate demand and awareness by showing up first on price based searches.

Undercutting competitors connection fares a year from now will be a certain sign of trouble.


Perhaps people don't catch fares on the days they are lowest, but they generally are booking in the lowest two buckets at any given time. After the introduction of basic economy, maybe 3-4, but most people will fly basic economy. The trick is to try and push fare increases on the 4 lowest buckets and then milk the midrange for all it's worth. Usually, if someone buys a midrange fare, it's because they're flying in an uncompetitive market and do not have any advance purchase (business flyers often buy those). In competitive markets, you will sometimes see AP on some fares reduced to 7 or 3, and those fares are usually still in the lowest buckets for inventory purposes.


Just to add in here re: fare buckets, when I fly for work, it’s always in the Y fare bucket, fully refundable Y.

The price is negotiated and is typically comparable to a non-refundable 60 day advance purchase price. But it’s still in a high fare bucket and I suspect a lot of this business travel is similar, just my 2c.

In regards to the new route, as a passenger IME more competition is always a good thing. When I was DFW based, flying anywhere that UA, DL, or NK didn’t have a nonstop to, you were paying $$$$$ to get there, or else connecting.
 
dfw88
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Re: AS Adds ANC-MSP

Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:22 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:

That's false. Most of what is sold in economy is in the two lowest buckets. People rarely will book up to a higher class unless it's absolutely necessary and will go to another carrier instead if they have cheaper seats.

No, it is not false....If you follow this site you will have seen many examples of one airline having higher load factors and higher average fares on particular flights. You will find AS and other legacies often matching other airlines in the midrange, but with higher fares early and late in the booking window. Don't forget AS also has premium seating, and first class. Alon many if those paying the lowest fares pay ancillary fees.

Legacy fares can change on a day to day basis, people don't only buy tickets on the days with the lowest fares.

New routes often begin with low fares to stimulate demand and awareness by showing up first on price based searches.

Undercutting competitors connection fares a year from now will be a certain sign of trouble.


Perhaps people don't catch fares on the days they are lowest, but they generally are booking in the lowest two buckets at any given time. After the introduction of basic economy, maybe 3-4, but most people will fly basic economy. The trick is to try and push fare increases on the 4 lowest buckets and then milk the midrange for all it's worth. Usually, if someone buys a midrange fare, it's because they're flying in an uncompetitive market and do not have any advance purchase (business flyers often buy those). In competitive markets, you will sometimes see AP on some fares reduced to 7 or 3, and those fares are usually still in the lowest buckets for inventory purposes.


I'm not sure where you're getting this idea, but as someone with a fair amount of airline revenue management experience I can say it's definitely false. The airlines close off those lower buckets in order to make sure that not more than about 10% of people buy into them (during COVID perhaps a bit more, and on some routes even in normal times perhaps a bit more but certainly not the majority). Any airline with a reasonable RM system, which would include any of the large US airlines, is pushing most people toward the middle of the booking class ladder. To greatly simplify a complicated process, that's why RM exists in the first place: to differentiate fares so not everyone buys at the bottom.

Also, it's a myth that basic economy only exists at the bottom of the ladder. There are basic fares all up and down the pricing ladder.
 
aviationjunky
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Re: AS Adds ANC-MSP

Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:08 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
Do you happen to recall the frequency, or schedule? Also (and pardon me for being as inquisitive here), what was their source of business on this route? For the MSP based passenger, with potentially 3 choices - DL, AS, or SY - who holds what advantages? On the Alaska side, I can see AS and DL's advantages - but fail to see how/where SY may be able to capitalize on the Alaskan side of the transaction to make it work against essentially two larger carriers with hubs/advantages on each end.


According to https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-minneapolis-msp, it looks like it starts May 14 with 1x Fri-Sun. Then quickly moves to almost 1x daily starting June 1, with 2x daily Fri-Sun. Then starting June 18, it looks like it turns to 2x daily, with only Tuesday and Wednesday from there being 1x daily. I don't have a premium account to check into the month of July. If someone else does, they can inform us of flights beyond June 30.
 
f18raider
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:13 pm

The first OneWorld jet is here! N487AS

https://twitter.com/itripreport/status/ ... 29604?s=21
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:28 pm

AS formalized its December announcement for 23 additional 737MAX-9 orders with 15 additional purchase rights.

SEC filing
https://investor.alaskaair.com/node/31406/html
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:08 am

f18raider wrote:
The first OneWorld jet is here! N487AS

https://twitter.com/itripreport/status/ ... 29604?s=21


Nice to see a new Theme airplane celebrating their entry into OW. Hopefully, the Kraken theme plane isn't too far behind.
 
pranav7478
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:42 am

why does it seem like alaska connectivity to florida has been decreasing from the west coast? was planning a florida trip for this summer, and the options keep decreasing and the prices have increased a lot. and i bought those alaska airlines costco certificates for the trip too, and thats a lot of credit
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:12 am

pranav7478 wrote:
why does it seem like alaska connectivity to florida has been decreasing from the west coast? was planning a florida trip for this summer, and the options keep decreasing and the prices have increased a lot. and i bought those alaska airlines costco certificates for the trip too, and thats a lot of credit


They seem to be taking a seasonal approach with a lot of the FL-California adds. TPA-LAX ends next month and TPA-SFO ends in May for example. But both return in the fall. They can likely make more money on other non-FL routes during the summer.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:25 am

pranav7478 wrote:
why does it seem like alaska connectivity to florida has been decreasing from the west coast? was planning a florida trip for this summer, and the options keep decreasing and the prices have increased a lot. and i bought those alaska airlines costco certificates for the trip too, and thats a lot of credit


The summer season as actually the off-peak season for Florida.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:40 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
pranav7478 wrote:
why does it seem like alaska connectivity to florida has been decreasing from the west coast? was planning a florida trip for this summer, and the options keep decreasing and the prices have increased a lot. and i bought those alaska airlines costco certificates for the trip too, and thats a lot of credit


The summer season as actually the off-peak season for Florida.

I don’t think Florida is gonna have an off season this year
 
pranav7478
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:54 pm

the new alaska oneworld tiers are on the website
alaska mvp = oneworld ruby
alaska mvp gold = oneworld sapphire
alaska mvp gold 75k = oneworld emerald

i thought sapphire would be gold and gold 75k, while emerald is gold 100k. i guess the 100k is to match with the four american tiers?
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:49 am

pranav7478 wrote:
the new alaska oneworld tiers are on the website
alaska mvp = oneworld ruby
alaska mvp gold = oneworld sapphire
alaska mvp gold 75k = oneworld emerald

i thought sapphire would be gold and gold 75k, while emerald is gold 100k. i guess the 100k is to match with the four american tiers?


I don't think Alaska's Mileage Plan has a 100K tier.
 
pranav7478
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:54 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
pranav7478 wrote:
the new alaska oneworld tiers are on the website
alaska mvp = oneworld ruby
alaska mvp gold = oneworld sapphire
alaska mvp gold 75k = oneworld emerald

i thought sapphire would be gold and gold 75k, while emerald is gold 100k. i guess the 100k is to match with the four american tiers?


I don't think Alaska's Mileage Plan has a 100K tier.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericrosen/ ... 1861266863
 
Tailwinds
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:59 am

dfw88 wrote:
My assumption would be that they want to codeshare beyond MIA on AA. They want to use SEA and PDX to gather pax from all over the PNW, send them to MIA, and connect them to AA's wide-ranging destinations in Latin America. They don't have those onward connections from FLL (unless they codeshare with someone else, but even then AA is quickly becoming their favorite codeshare partner with the OW tie-up).


MIA is far enough out of the way from the west coast (compared to connecting in LAX or DFW) that I'd expect it to only be a reasonable connection for destinations not served by the other two. That's mostly the Caribbean and also smaller VFR-type destinations which aren't likely to have much demand from the PNW. DFW can handle every "big name" destination south of the border. LAX used to have many of those, too. AA killed their LAX-South America flights for Covid, perhaps this code share helps lead to their return?
 
dfw88
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:29 pm

Tailwinds wrote:
dfw88 wrote:
My assumption would be that they want to codeshare beyond MIA on AA. They want to use SEA and PDX to gather pax from all over the PNW, send them to MIA, and connect them to AA's wide-ranging destinations in Latin America. They don't have those onward connections from FLL (unless they codeshare with someone else, but even then AA is quickly becoming their favorite codeshare partner with the OW tie-up).


MIA is far enough out of the way from the west coast (compared to connecting in LAX or DFW) that I'd expect it to only be a reasonable connection for destinations not served by the other two. That's mostly the Caribbean and also smaller VFR-type destinations which aren't likely to have much demand from the PNW. DFW can handle every "big name" destination south of the border. LAX used to have many of those, too. AA killed their LAX-South America flights for Covid, perhaps this code share helps lead to their return?


MIA isn't actually very far out of the way at all. Remember that South America is (mostly, let's not get too pedantic) southeast of North America. From SEA to GRU, for example, you only add 25 extra miles by flying through MIA instead of DFW (that's right, 25, not 250). Flying through LAX, on the other hand, adds over 300 miles compared to flying through DFW. That's why the LAX flights went away. LAX is a terrible place to connect to deep South America. Those flights live on OD traffic and low connecting fares, which means they're unlikely to come back (though not impossible). Other destinations in deep South America are similar. Essentially, having a SEA-MIA flight would give twice as many options, allowing customers to connect just as conveniently over DFW or MIA. The only places where DFW is truly a superior connection are for flights to Mexico and northern Central America.

For Caribbean destinations (and, admittedly, I have no clue what the demand to the Caribbean from the PNW is), MIA is king. Just to pick a random one, SJU, connecting through MIA is 56 miles shorter than connecting through DFW. Again, that's basically the same, so it doubles the number of connection points. Given that there are more SJU flights a day from MIA than from DFW it increases the actual flights you can take by a substantial number.

Based on forward-looking schedules for this summer, picking July as a random month, from DFW AA has 5,016 flights, about 162 per day, to 50 unique destinations in Latin America and the Caribbean. Of those destinations, 25 are in Mexico. From MIA, for that same month, AA has 8,924 flights, about 288 per day, to 63 unique destinations in Latin America and the Caribbean (only 5 of which are in Mexico). (The flights are RT flight counts and the destination OW, so MIA-SJU-MIA counts as 2 flights and 1 destination). I realize that the July schedule hasn't been pruned yet, but that's kind of my point. In normal times, and the assumption is that the AS/AA partnership will continue into the new normal, AA's MIA hub is not actually out of the way by much, if at all, and is a beast for Latin American and Caribbean connections. Reports of its death have been greatly exaggerated on a.net (particularly on the DL boards, but that's a different discussion :D )

Basically, the bottom line is that a SEA-MIA flight greatly increases the number of destinations and flights available to PNW travelers. Whether the demand is there to warrant such a flight is, I agree, another story altogether. Thanks for the discussion!
 
Tailwinds
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:11 pm

Fair enough, though GRU is maybe the only major destination to be shorter via MIA. SCL, LIM, even EZE favor DFW and LAX. But honestly the differences in mileage aren't as substantial as I had figured. What might be more important is getting a passenger on to a widebody a couple hours faster. Seems a thing that would be advantageous to passengers and airlines.
 
Wneast
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:07 am

Anyone have a guess when we could see Alaska’s Hawaii flying expanded soon with the etops available planes from Oakland and that Hawaii is booming i would think they would want to put those planes on Hawaii flying sooner rather then later ?
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:53 am

Wneast wrote:
Anyone have a guess when we could see Alaska’s Hawaii flying expanded soon with the etops available planes from Oakland and that Hawaii is booming i would think they would want to put those planes on Hawaii flying sooner rather then later ?


Alaska has already announced that they have permanently discontinued all OAK-HI flights.
 
Wneast
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:04 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Anyone have a guess when we could see Alaska’s Hawaii flying expanded soon with the etops available planes from Oakland and that Hawaii is booming i would think they would want to put those planes on Hawaii flying sooner rather then later ?


Alaska has already announced that they have permanently discontinued all OAK-HI flights.

No I mean should we see them put the planes elsewhere soon ?
 
Runway765
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:24 am

Two questions. How many flights was AS operating in SEA prior to the pandemic? And will we see QF start SEA-SYD once international travel recovers?
 
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seahawks7757
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:29 am

Runway765 wrote:
Two questions. How many flights was AS operating in SEA prior to the pandemic? And will we see QF start SEA-SYD once international travel recovers?



Rumor a few years ago was Seattle was the alternate when qantas decided on Chicago. I can’t remember though if it was Melbourne or Sydney
 
Ishrion
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:34 am

Runway765 wrote:
Two questions. How many flights was AS operating in SEA prior to the pandemic? And will we see QF start SEA-SYD once international travel recovers?


SEA-SYD overall makes sense to connect the two Oneworld hubs with connections on both sides. Not sure what ties Seattle and Australia have though. I believe Qantas said it would launch SYD or BNE to SEA if the AA JV wasn't approved.

However, with AA creating a "long-haul hub" out of SEA and given their JV with Qantas, either of the two airlines could launch Seattle to Australia flights.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:01 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Anyone have a guess when we could see Alaska’s Hawaii flying expanded soon with the etops available planes from Oakland and that Hawaii is booming i would think they would want to put those planes on Hawaii flying sooner rather then later ?


Alaska has already announced that they have permanently discontinued all OAK-HI flights.


I think that was his point. He’s speculating that AS may put the available airplanes from the discontinued OAK-HI flights to start other new flights to HI. He’s asking if anyone knows when/if such new HI route announcements may come.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:03 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Anyone have a guess when we could see Alaska’s Hawaii flying expanded soon with the etops available planes from Oakland and that Hawaii is booming i would think they would want to put those planes on Hawaii flying sooner rather then later ?


Alaska has already announced that they have permanently discontinued all OAK-HI flights.


I think that was his point. He’s speculating that AS may put the available airplanes from the discontinued OAK-HI flights to start other new flights to HI. He’s asking if anyone knows when/if such new HI route announcements may come.


Oh...got it. My guess is that they'll increase frequency on other Mainland-Hawaii flights. AS has so many ETOPS-capable airplanes, I don't think it will necessarily apply to additional HI service.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:05 am

Wneast wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Anyone have a guess when we could see Alaska’s Hawaii flying expanded soon with the etops available planes from Oakland and that Hawaii is booming i would think they would want to put those planes on Hawaii flying sooner rather then later ?


Alaska has already announced that they have permanently discontinued all OAK-HI flights.

No I mean should we see them put the planes elsewhere soon ?


I misunderstood you. Like I said responding to another post, I think they'll simply increase frequency to other Mainland-HI segments.
 
Wneast
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:06 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

Alaska has already announced that they have permanently discontinued all OAK-HI flights.


I think that was his point. He’s speculating that AS may put the available airplanes from the discontinued OAK-HI flights to start other new flights to HI. He’s asking if anyone knows when/if such new HI route announcements may come.


Oh...got it. My guess is that they'll increase frequency on other Mainland-Hawaii flights. AS has so many ETOPS-capable airplanes, I don't think it will necessarily apply to additional HI service.

I guessing they might wait to see where WN might put there capacity for Hawaii coming up so they can better compete against what they might do
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:57 am

Ishrion wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
Not sure what ties Seattle and Australia have though. I believe Qantas said it would launch SYD or BNE to SEA if the AA JV wasn't approved.


The state of Alaska has strong trees with Australia, both recreational and commercial. Much of the mineral extraction specialties that work in one work in the other.
 
Western727
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:42 pm

dfw88 wrote:
Tailwinds wrote:
dfw88 wrote:
My assumption would be that they want to codeshare beyond MIA on AA. They want to use SEA and PDX to gather pax from all over the PNW, send them to MIA, and connect them to AA's wide-ranging destinations in Latin America. They don't have those onward connections from FLL (unless they codeshare with someone else, but even then AA is quickly becoming their favorite codeshare partner with the OW tie-up).


MIA is far enough out of the way from the west coast (compared to connecting in LAX or DFW) that I'd expect it to only be a reasonable connection for destinations not served by the other two. That's mostly the Caribbean and also smaller VFR-type destinations which aren't likely to have much demand from the PNW. DFW can handle every "big name" destination south of the border. LAX used to have many of those, too. AA killed their LAX-South America flights for Covid, perhaps this code share helps lead to their return?


For Caribbean destinations (and, admittedly, I have no clue what the demand to the Caribbean from the PNW is)



It's less than that of western Mexico and Hawaii, though I forget to what extent. I grew up in Seattle and the Caribbean was seldom mentioned as a vacation destination. Doing a quick search at gcmap.com:

SEA-PVR 2,078 mi
SEA-HNL 2,677 mi
SEA-SJU 3,729 mi

...so for weeklong vacations I imagine most would rather only need to fly 4-5 hours each way. Plus, from SEA there's a number of nonstops to multiple Hawaiian destinations, as well as Los Cabos, Acapculco, Puerto Vallarta, etc. The Caribbean means an automatic connection, which of course means more travel time. SJU on random dates in May would take as short as 8h 58m eastbound and 9h 58m westbound. I'll take Hawaii or Mexico over that any day, unless I had a specific reason for going to the Caribbean (e.g., a wedding or a deliberately-chosen SCUBA diving destination).
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:27 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Alaska has already announced that they have permanently discontinued all OAK-HI flights.

I think that was his point. He’s speculating that AS may put the available airplanes from the discontinued OAK-HI flights to start other new flights to HI. He’s asking if anyone knows when/if such new HI route announcements may come.

Oh...got it. My guess is that they'll increase frequency on other Mainland-Hawaii flights. AS has so many ETOPS-capable airplanes, I don't think it will necessarily apply to additional HI service.

I've posted recently -- I'm not sure if that includes this thread -- that AS has double-daily from SAN to both HNL and Maui on the schedules for this summer; OGG has been 2X daily before but this is the first time for HNL! I'm sure this is partly due to increased demand, local plus possible more connecting opportunities with the 2nd flights, but also to send a message to WN that AS "owns" SAN-Hawaii.

WN finally started SAN-HNL last November (once daily) and hasn't even scheduled SAN-Maui, let alone expressed any interest in flying nonstop to KOA or LIH from here. So far, I'd say AS has definitely taken the upper hand between SAN and the islands!

I'm not sure what AS is doing with their other existing HI markets but I'd certainly agree with others here expecting to see AS use most of those OAK resources to increase frequencies on existing routes to Hawaii; I don't see them starting many, if any, new routes from new gateways.

One last point: AS needs to have the a/c to re-start LIH flights, hopefully by next month, so the dropped OAK flights may help in that regard as well. I believe the only service to LIH recently has been from SEA so AS will want to get SAN, SJC, and possibly other service to Kauai up and running as soon as the Island is "open" again.

bb
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:35 pm

SANFan wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I think that was his point. He’s speculating that AS may put the available airplanes from the discontinued OAK-HI flights to start other new flights to HI. He’s asking if anyone knows when/if such new HI route announcements may come.

Oh...got it. My guess is that they'll increase frequency on other Mainland-Hawaii flights. AS has so many ETOPS-capable airplanes, I don't think it will necessarily apply to additional HI service.

I've posted recently -- I'm not sure if that includes this thread -- that AS has double-daily from SAN to both HNL and Maui on the schedules for this summer; OGG has been 2X daily before but this is the first time for HNL! I'm sure this is partly due to increased demand, local plus possible more connecting opportunities with the 2nd flights, but also to send a message to WN that AS "owns" SAN-Hawaii.

WN finally started SAN-HNL last November (once daily) and hasn't even scheduled SAN-Maui, let alone expressed any interest in flying nonstop to KOA or LIH from here. So far, I'd say AS has definitely taken the upper hand between SAN and the islands!

I'm not sure what AS is doing with their other existing HI markets but I'd certainly agree with others here expecting to see AS use most of those OAK resources to increase frequencies on existing routes to Hawaii; I don't see them starting many, if any, new routes from new gateways.

One last point: AS needs to have the a/c to re-start LIH flights, hopefully by next month, so the dropped OAK flights may help in that regard as well. I believe the only service to LIH recently has been from SEA so AS will want to get SAN, SJC, and possibly other service to Kauai up and running as soon as the Island is "open" again.

bb


Does AS have any plans to resume Hawaii flights from BLI and SMF, or add any new secondary destinations like FAT, BOI, or GEG to Hawaii?
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:22 pm

Western727 wrote:
Plus, from SEA there's a number of nonstops to multiple Hawaiian destinations, as well as Los Cabos, Acapculco, Puerto Vallarta, etc. The Caribbean means an automatic connection, which of course means more travel time. SJU on random dates in May would take as short as 8h 58m eastbound and 9h 58m westbound. I'll take Hawaii or Mexico over that any day, unless I had a specific reason for going to the Caribbean (e.g., a wedding or a deliberately-chosen SCUBA diving destination).


No one has flown from SEA to Acapulco for decades. AS did have a route that stopped in GDL on the way to ACA but that was last operated maybe 25 years ago.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:36 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
SANFan wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Oh...got it. My guess is that they'll increase frequency on other Mainland-Hawaii flights. AS has so many ETOPS-capable airplanes, I don't think it will necessarily apply to additional HI service.

I've posted recently -- I'm not sure if that includes this thread -- that AS has double-daily from SAN to both HNL and Maui on the schedules for this summer; OGG has been 2X daily before but this is the first time for HNL! I'm sure this is partly due to increased demand, local plus possible more connecting opportunities with the 2nd flights, but also to send a message to WN that AS "owns" SAN-Hawaii.

WN finally started SAN-HNL last November (once daily) and hasn't even scheduled SAN-Maui, let alone expressed any interest in flying nonstop to KOA or LIH from here. So far, I'd say AS has definitely taken the upper hand between SAN and the islands!

I'm not sure what AS is doing with their other existing HI markets but I'd certainly agree with others here expecting to see AS use most of those OAK resources to increase frequencies on existing routes to Hawaii; I don't see them starting many, if any, new routes from new gateways.

One last point: AS needs to have the a/c to re-start LIH flights, hopefully by next month, so the dropped OAK flights may help in that regard as well. I believe the only service to LIH recently has been from SEA so AS will want to get SAN, SJC, and possibly other service to Kauai up and running as soon as the Island is "open" again.

bb


Does AS have any plans to resume Hawaii flights from BLI and SMF, or add any new secondary destinations like FAT, BOI, or GEG to Hawaii?


Who knows at this point. AS could always use the extra flying resources on other routes like the East Coast or the Midwest. They don't necessarily need to be used on Mainland-HI routes.

I know something SanFan would be all over is if AS were to fly SAN-Costa Rica.
 
Wneast
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:40 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
SANFan wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Oh...got it. My guess is that they'll increase frequency on other Mainland-Hawaii flights. AS has so many ETOPS-capable airplanes, I don't think it will necessarily apply to additional HI service.

I've posted recently -- I'm not sure if that includes this thread -- that AS has double-daily from SAN to both HNL and Maui on the schedules for this summer; OGG has been 2X daily before but this is the first time for HNL! I'm sure this is partly due to increased demand, local plus possible more connecting opportunities with the 2nd flights, but also to send a message to WN that AS "owns" SAN-Hawaii.

WN finally started SAN-HNL last November (once daily) and hasn't even scheduled SAN-Maui, let alone expressed any interest in flying nonstop to KOA or LIH from here. So far, I'd say AS has definitely taken the upper hand between SAN and the islands!

I'm not sure what AS is doing with their other existing HI markets but I'd certainly agree with others here expecting to see AS use most of those OAK resources to increase frequencies on existing routes to Hawaii; I don't see them starting many, if any, new routes from new gateways.

One last point: AS needs to have the a/c to re-start LIH flights, hopefully by next month, so the dropped OAK flights may help in that regard as well. I believe the only service to LIH recently has been from SEA so AS will want to get SAN, SJC, and possibly other service to Kauai up and running as soon as the Island is "open" again.

bb


Does AS have any plans to resume Hawaii flights from BLI and SMF, or add any new secondary destinations like FAT, BOI, or GEG to Hawaii?

People were saying that BOI and GEG might need the max to make it worth it
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:42 am

Wneast wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I've posted recently -- I'm not sure if that includes this thread -- that AS has double-daily from SAN to both HNL and Maui on the schedules for this summer; OGG has been 2X daily before but this is the first time for HNL! I'm sure this is partly due to increased demand, local plus possible more connecting opportunities with the 2nd flights, but also to send a message to WN that AS "owns" SAN-Hawaii.

WN finally started SAN-HNL last November (once daily) and hasn't even scheduled SAN-Maui, let alone expressed any interest in flying nonstop to KOA or LIH from here. So far, I'd say AS has definitely taken the upper hand between SAN and the islands!

I'm not sure what AS is doing with their other existing HI markets but I'd certainly agree with others here expecting to see AS use most of those OAK resources to increase frequencies on existing routes to Hawaii; I don't see them starting many, if any, new routes from new gateways.

One last point: AS needs to have the a/c to re-start LIH flights, hopefully by next month, so the dropped OAK flights may help in that regard as well. I believe the only service to LIH recently has been from SEA so AS will want to get SAN, SJC, and possibly other service to Kauai up and running as soon as the Island is "open" again.

bb


Does AS have any plans to resume Hawaii flights from BLI and SMF, or add any new secondary destinations like FAT, BOI, or GEG to Hawaii?

People were saying that BOI and GEG might need the max to make it worth it


I think if they use MAX-es to HI, I'm sure it will on their current routes. But never say "never."
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 821
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:09 am

SANFan wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I think that was his point. He’s speculating that AS may put the available airplanes from the discontinued OAK-HI flights to start other new flights to HI. He’s asking if anyone knows when/if such new HI route announcements may come.

Oh...got it. My guess is that they'll increase frequency on other Mainland-Hawaii flights. AS has so many ETOPS-capable airplanes, I don't think it will necessarily apply to additional HI service.

I've posted recently -- I'm not sure if that includes this thread -- that AS has double-daily from SAN to both HNL and Maui on the schedules for this summer; OGG has been 2X daily before but this is the first time for HNL! I'm sure this is partly due to increased demand, local plus possible more connecting opportunities with the 2nd flights, but also to send a message to WN that AS "owns" SAN-Hawaii.

WN finally started SAN-HNL last November (once daily) and hasn't even scheduled SAN-Maui, let alone expressed any interest in flying nonstop to KOA or LIH from here. So far, I'd say AS has definitely taken the upper hand between SAN and the islands!

I'm not sure what AS is doing with their other existing HI markets but I'd certainly agree with others here expecting to see AS use most of those OAK resources to increase frequencies on existing routes to Hawaii; I don't see them starting many, if any, new routes from new gateways.

One last point: AS needs to have the a/c to re-start LIH flights, hopefully by next month, so the dropped OAK flights may help in that regard as well. I believe the only service to LIH recently has been from SEA so AS will want to get SAN, SJC, and possibly other service to Kauai up and running as soon as the Island is "open" again.

bb


Once WN receives ETOPS certification for the MAX-8, I predict an expansion of SAN-Hawaii. It’s only logical that this is due, considering their marketshare and frequent flier base in SAN. AS has definitely gained more SoCal customers in the last few years, and I doubt that WN will cede the market to a competitor. Although AS has gained ground in terms of marketshare (percentage size), WN still leads by a large margin in terms of passengers flown and capacity being offered.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1458
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:09 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
SANFan wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Oh...got it. My guess is that they'll increase frequency on other Mainland-Hawaii flights. AS has so many ETOPS-capable airplanes, I don't think it will necessarily apply to additional HI service.

I've posted recently -- I'm not sure if that includes this thread -- that AS has double-daily from SAN to both HNL and Maui on the schedules for this summer; OGG has been 2X daily before but this is the first time for HNL! I'm sure this is partly due to increased demand, local plus possible more connecting opportunities with the 2nd flights, but also to send a message to WN that AS "owns" SAN-Hawaii.

WN finally started SAN-HNL last November (once daily) and hasn't even scheduled SAN-Maui, let alone expressed any interest in flying nonstop to KOA or LIH from here. So far, I'd say AS has definitely taken the upper hand between SAN and the islands!

I'm not sure what AS is doing with their other existing HI markets but I'd certainly agree with others here expecting to see AS use most of those OAK resources to increase frequencies on existing routes to Hawaii; I don't see them starting many, if any, new routes from new gateways.

One last point: AS needs to have the a/c to re-start LIH flights, hopefully by next month, so the dropped OAK flights may help in that regard as well. I believe the only service to LIH recently has been from SEA so AS will want to get SAN, SJC, and possibly other service to Kauai up and running as soon as the Island is "open" again.

bb


Does AS have any plans to resume Hawaii flights from BLI and SMF, or add any new secondary destinations like FAT, BOI, or GEG to Hawaii?


Tons of rumors about this. Would work a couple times per week since all three offer numerous connections on days without nonstops, but AS doesn't have any intra-island flying, so fights would be slightly less attractive than WN or HA where one can connect.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:36 pm

airplaneboy wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I've posted recently -- I'm not sure if that includes this thread -- that AS has double-daily from SAN to both HNL and Maui on the schedules for this summer; OGG has been 2X daily before but this is the first time for HNL! I'm sure this is partly due to increased demand, local plus possible more connecting opportunities with the 2nd flights, but also to send a message to WN that AS "owns" SAN-Hawaii.

One last point: AS needs to have the a/c to re-start LIH flights, hopefully by next month, so the dropped OAK flights may help in that regard as well. I believe the only service to LIH recently has been from SEA so AS will want to get SAN, SJC, and possibly other service to Kauai up and running as soon as the Island is "open" again.
bb

Once WN receives ETOPS certification for the MAX-8, I predict an expansion of SAN-Hawaii. It’s only logical that this is due, considering their marketshare and frequent flier base in SAN. AS has definitely gained more SoCal customers in the last few years, and I doubt that WN will cede the market to a competitor. Although AS has gained ground in terms of marketshare (percentage size), WN still leads by a large margin in terms of passengers flown and capacity being offered.

I wouldn't be real surprised if AS could do more with SAN-HI. Once they get LIH going again, it suppose eventually AS could add a few frequencies to both LIH and KOA -- at least for the peak summer season -- and take HNL & OGG double-daily all year. If SAN becomes some level of hub for AS, then more connections might be offered over SAN, especially from HI. (Also, remember that unlike most mainland cities, SAN-HI high season is the summer, coinciding more with summer school vacation than any sort of weather seasonality.) But beyond a couple of additional flights, I don't see that AS could do much more between SAN and Hawaii than they've got on the skeds for this summer. (But I'd love to be surprised!)

wedgetail737 wrote:
I know something SANFan would be all over is if AS were to fly SAN-Costa Rica.

It doesn't seem out of the question to me, wedgie'! I can't even imagine the irony if AS were to be the first carrier to begin service from SAN to Central America!... I'm sure the San Diego surfer community would be all over nonstop service to some of the great surfing spots and beaches in CR, just as they are with Hawaii.

Just one other point: I have now seen at least 3 times recently -- in an AS press releases, news articles about AS, internet reviews -- SAN mentioned as a "hub" (described usually as a "SoCal", "California", or "west coast" Hub for the airline.) I don't want to read too much into it but the more often I see it, the more meaningful it becomes to me! (It also took a while for SAN to be described as a "focus city" of AS but that finally became a given...) I don't ever envision SAN becoming nearly as large as PDX -- let alone SEA -- simply due to limited terminal space at SDIA along with the very limited airport land for things like even a small hanger or other support bldgs but perhaps something along the lines of SFO or ANC might be possible? Doubtful but who knows what the future here might look like for AAG...?

bb
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 6008
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:35 am

SANFan wrote:
airplaneboy wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I've posted recently -- I'm not sure if that includes this thread -- that AS has double-daily from SAN to both HNL and Maui on the schedules for this summer; OGG has been 2X daily before but this is the first time for HNL! I'm sure this is partly due to increased demand, local plus possible more connecting opportunities with the 2nd flights, but also to send a message to WN that AS "owns" SAN-Hawaii.

One last point: AS needs to have the a/c to re-start LIH flights, hopefully by next month, so the dropped OAK flights may help in that regard as well. I believe the only service to LIH recently has been from SEA so AS will want to get SAN, SJC, and possibly other service to Kauai up and running as soon as the Island is "open" again.
bb

Once WN receives ETOPS certification for the MAX-8, I predict an expansion of SAN-Hawaii. It’s only logical that this is due, considering their marketshare and frequent flier base in SAN. AS has definitely gained more SoCal customers in the last few years, and I doubt that WN will cede the market to a competitor. Although AS has gained ground in terms of marketshare (percentage size), WN still leads by a large margin in terms of passengers flown and capacity being offered.

I wouldn't be real surprised if AS could do more with SAN-HI. Once they get LIH going again, it suppose eventually AS could add a few frequencies to both LIH and KOA -- at least for the peak summer season -- and take HNL & OGG double-daily all year. If SAN becomes some level of hub for AS, then more connections might be offered over SAN, especially from HI. (Also, remember that unlike most mainland cities, SAN-HI high season is the summer, coinciding more with summer school vacation than any sort of weather seasonality.) But beyond a couple of additional flights, I don't see that AS could do much more between SAN and Hawaii than they've got on the skeds for this summer. (But I'd love to be surprised!)

wedgetail737 wrote:
I know something SANFan would be all over is if AS were to fly SAN-Costa Rica.

It doesn't seem out of the question to me, wedgie'! I can't even imagine the irony if AS were to be the first carrier to begin service from SAN to Central America!... I'm sure the San Diego surfer community would be all over nonstop service to some of the great surfing spots and beaches in CR, just as they are with Hawaii.

Just one other point: I have now seen at least 3 times recently -- in an AS press releases, news articles about AS, internet reviews -- SAN mentioned as a "hub" (described usually as a "SoCal", "California", or "west coast" Hub for the airline.) I don't want to read too much into it but the more often I see it, the more meaningful it becomes to me! (It also took a while for SAN to be described as a "focus city" of AS but that finally became a given...) I don't ever envision SAN becoming nearly as large as PDX -- let alone SEA -- simply due to limited terminal space at SDIA along with the very limited airport land for things like even a small hanger or other support bldgs but perhaps something along the lines of SFO or ANC might be possible? Doubtful but who knows what the future here might look like for AAG...?

bb


I can definitely see SAN being a significant connecting complex for AS, especially they have established themselves. I, myself, have used SAN from SEA to MCO. One key route that AS attempted to get was SAN-DCA during the last round of beyond-perimeter slots, but was denied. Some of ancillary routes that SAN recently got like SAN-GEG, SAN-BOI and SAN-MT, makes SAN more of game-player at SAN. I'm looking forward to see what else AS has for SAN...hopefully a lot more.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6875
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:56 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
airplaneboy wrote:
Once WN receives ETOPS certification for the MAX-8, I predict an expansion of SAN-Hawaii. It’s only logical that this is due, considering their marketshare and frequent flier base in SAN. AS has definitely gained more SoCal customers in the last few years, and I doubt that WN will cede the market to a competitor. Although AS has gained ground in terms of marketshare (percentage size), WN still leads by a large margin in terms of passengers flown and capacity being offered.

I wouldn't be real surprised if AS could do more with SAN-HI. Once they get LIH going again, it suppose eventually AS could add a few frequencies to both LIH and KOA -- at least for the peak summer season -- and take HNL & OGG double-daily all year. If SAN becomes some level of hub for AS, then more connections might be offered over SAN, especially from HI. (Also, remember that unlike most mainland cities, SAN-HI high season is the summer, coinciding more with summer school vacation than any sort of weather seasonality.) But beyond a couple of additional flights, I don't see that AS could do much more between SAN and Hawaii than they've got on the skeds for this summer. (But I'd love to be surprised!)

wedgetail737 wrote:
I know something SANFan would be all over is if AS were to fly SAN-Costa Rica.

It doesn't seem out of the question to me, wedgie'! I can't even imagine the irony if AS were to be the first carrier to begin service from SAN to Central America!... I'm sure the San Diego surfer community would be all over nonstop service to some of the great surfing spots and beaches in CR, just as they are with Hawaii.

Just one other point: I have now seen at least 3 times recently -- in an AS press releases, news articles about AS, internet reviews -- SAN mentioned as a "hub" (described usually as a "SoCal", "California", or "west coast" Hub for the airline.) I don't want to read too much into it but the more often I see it, the more meaningful it becomes to me! (It also took a while for SAN to be described as a "focus city" of AS but that finally became a given...) I don't ever envision SAN becoming nearly as large as PDX -- let alone SEA -- simply due to limited terminal space at SDIA along with the very limited airport land for things like even a small hanger or other support bldgs but perhaps something along the lines of SFO or ANC might be possible? Doubtful but who knows what the future here might look like for AAG...?

bb


I can definitely see SAN being a significant connecting complex for AS, especially they have established themselves. I, myself, have used SAN from SEA to MCO. One key route that AS attempted to get was SAN-DCA during the last round of beyond-perimeter slots, but was denied. Some of ancillary routes that SAN recently got like SAN-GEG, SAN-BOI and SAN-MT, makes SAN more of game-player at SAN. I'm looking forward to see what else AS has for SAN...hopefully a lot more.


Keep in mind that delta is making a huge push into Seattle based on their recent pilot bid, including adding an a220 base there. As will have to again use all of it's resources to defend it's position there due to the gate allocation methodology there. And aside from that, they are making a huge push in lax as part of their aa partnership.

San isn't going to get their focus for a while.

Keep in mind that as will not be back to it's precovid mainline fleet size until 2023.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 6008
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:29 am

tphuang wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I wouldn't be real surprised if AS could do more with SAN-HI. Once they get LIH going again, it suppose eventually AS could add a few frequencies to both LIH and KOA -- at least for the peak summer season -- and take HNL & OGG double-daily all year. If SAN becomes some level of hub for AS, then more connections might be offered over SAN, especially from HI. (Also, remember that unlike most mainland cities, SAN-HI high season is the summer, coinciding more with summer school vacation than any sort of weather seasonality.) But beyond a couple of additional flights, I don't see that AS could do much more between SAN and Hawaii than they've got on the skeds for this summer. (But I'd love to be surprised!)


It doesn't seem out of the question to me, wedgie'! I can't even imagine the irony if AS were to be the first carrier to begin service from SAN to Central America!... I'm sure the San Diego surfer community would be all over nonstop service to some of the great surfing spots and beaches in CR, just as they are with Hawaii.

Just one other point: I have now seen at least 3 times recently -- in an AS press releases, news articles about AS, internet reviews -- SAN mentioned as a "hub" (described usually as a "SoCal", "California", or "west coast" Hub for the airline.) I don't want to read too much into it but the more often I see it, the more meaningful it becomes to me! (It also took a while for SAN to be described as a "focus city" of AS but that finally became a given...) I don't ever envision SAN becoming nearly as large as PDX -- let alone SEA -- simply due to limited terminal space at SDIA along with the very limited airport land for things like even a small hanger or other support bldgs but perhaps something along the lines of SFO or ANC might be possible? Doubtful but who knows what the future here might look like for AAG...?

bb


I can definitely see SAN being a significant connecting complex for AS, especially they have established themselves. I, myself, have used SAN from SEA to MCO. One key route that AS attempted to get was SAN-DCA during the last round of beyond-perimeter slots, but was denied. Some of ancillary routes that SAN recently got like SAN-GEG, SAN-BOI and SAN-MT, makes SAN more of game-player at SAN. I'm looking forward to see what else AS has for SAN...hopefully a lot more.


Keep in mind that delta is making a huge push into Seattle based on their recent pilot bid, including adding an a220 base there. As will have to again use all of it's resources to defend it's position there due to the gate allocation methodology there. And aside from that, they are making a huge push in lax as part of their aa partnership.

San isn't going to get their focus for a while.

Keep in mind that as will not be back to it's precovid mainline fleet size until 2023.


AA did mention that they will have all of their airplanes in service in May...obviously, not including those airplanes AA retired....which were a lot.

I thought DL was already planning on an A220 base at SEA prior to the pandemic.

But you might be right with AS and SAN...at least briefly. AS will still have a mind of its own...and I think SAN will expand some still.

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