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32andBelow
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:50 am

BangersAndMash wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
We’ll see how strong demand is this winter. But maybe they are to cover maintenance checks on the 737s.


System-wide LF in Q2 was 77%. Guidance for Q3 is in the 82-85% bracket. Demand is clearly there.

32andBelow wrote:
My question is where are they going to get all the airbus pilot for this? Is the airbus super fat right now?


From their existing pilot pool? The fleet plan hasn't changed that long ago, and they clearly have planned for Airbus pilots since they're keeping the A321. It's only 10 aircraft anyway.

10 aircraft is like 100 pilots. Which means they have 100 extra airbus pilots right now with their planes parked.
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:30 pm

32andBelow wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
We’ll see how strong demand is this winter. But maybe they are to cover maintenance checks on the 737s.


System-wide LF in Q2 was 77%. Guidance for Q3 is in the 82-85% bracket. Demand is clearly there.

32andBelow wrote:
My question is where are they going to get all the airbus pilot for this? Is the airbus super fat right now?


From their existing pilot pool? The fleet plan hasn't changed that long ago, and they clearly have planned for Airbus pilots since they're keeping the A321. It's only 10 aircraft anyway.

10 aircraft is like 100 pilots. Which means they have 100 extra airbus pilots right now with their planes parked.


I'm pretty sure they've given some thought about that in their planning. These planes were somehow being flown before and AS had the pilots to fly them. It's not like this is new aircraft they need to recruit for. Their Airbus pilots are being kept on and retrained for the MAX anyway.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:23 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:

System-wide LF in Q2 was 77%. Guidance for Q3 is in the 82-85% bracket. Demand is clearly there.



From their existing pilot pool? The fleet plan hasn't changed that long ago, and they clearly have planned for Airbus pilots since they're keeping the A321. It's only 10 aircraft anyway.

10 aircraft is like 100 pilots. Which means they have 100 extra airbus pilots right now with their planes parked.


I'm pretty sure they've given some thought about that in their planning. These planes were somehow being flown before and AS had the pilots to fly them. It's not like this is new aircraft they need to recruit for. Their Airbus pilots are being kept on and retrained for the MAX anyway.

I’m just asking what these pilots have been doing if there are going to “temporarily” reactivate 10 aircrafts. I asked if they have keep the airbus overstaffed to this point.
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:53 pm

32andBelow wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
10 aircraft is like 100 pilots. Which means they have 100 extra airbus pilots right now with their planes parked.


I'm pretty sure they've given some thought about that in their planning. These planes were somehow being flown before and AS had the pilots to fly them. It's not like this is new aircraft they need to recruit for. Their Airbus pilots are being kept on and retrained for the MAX anyway.

I’m just asking what these pilots have been doing if there are going to “temporarily” reactivate 10 aircrafts. I asked if they have keep the airbus overstaffed to this point.


The planes are not being put into service until the fall, so there is time to ensure training is in order.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:06 pm

32andBelow wrote:
I’m just asking what these pilots have been doing if there are going to “temporarily” reactivate 10 aircrafts. I asked if they have keep the airbus overstaffed to this point.


Of course they've been overstaffed. The alternative to that was layoffs and then a displacement bid and massive (and messy) retraining as DL and AA did.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:36 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I’m just asking what these pilots have been doing if there are going to “temporarily” reactivate 10 aircrafts. I asked if they have keep the airbus overstaffed to this point.


Of course they've been overstaffed. The alternative to that was layoffs and then a displacement bid and massive (and messy) retraining as DL and AA did.


PSP programs, too. The government is paying AS to keep the pilots around (or overstaffed).
 
USAirKid
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:38 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I’m just asking what these pilots have been doing if there are going to “temporarily” reactivate 10 aircrafts. I asked if they have keep the airbus overstaffed to this point.


Of course they've been overstaffed. The alternative to that was layoffs and then a displacement bid and massive (and messy) retraining as DL and AA did.


Would it be really that massive and messy as DL and AA? AS has two types: 737 & A319/A320/A321. I'm guessing most of the A320 pilots are from VX, so they're probably more junior to most of the 737 pilots.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:03 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
We’ll see how strong demand is this winter. But maybe they are to cover maintenance checks on the 737s.


System-wide LF in Q2 was 77%. Guidance for Q3 is in the 82-85% bracket. Demand is clearly there.


Daily systemwide LF has consistently been near or just above 90% for all of July. Airports and Contact Centers have been implementing mandatory overtime for months and are now paying a premium of 0.5X pay over and above the normal 1.5X/2.0X pay agents earn when working these OT/DT pay hours.

Yes, demand is absolutely there.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 233
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:44 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
We’ll see how strong demand is this winter. But maybe they are to cover maintenance checks on the 737s.


System-wide LF in Q2 was 77%. Guidance for Q3 is in the 82-85% bracket. Demand is clearly there.


Daily systemwide LF has consistently been near or just above 90% for all of July. Airports and Contact Centers have been implementing mandatory overtime for months and are now paying a premium of 0.5X pay over and above the normal 1.5X/2.0X pay agents earn when working these OT/DT pay hours.

Yes, demand is absolutely there.


Yep, according to this piece from everybody's favourite news source, capacity at SEA in Q2 2021 was already 2% higher than Q2 2019

https://simpleflying.com/alaska-airlines-seattle-2/
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:35 pm

I wonder if AS will pay top-dollar for the remaining PAE "slots".
 
Wneast
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:39 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
I wonder if AS will pay top-dollar for the remaining PAE "slots".

what I find interesting the CEO of the airport says the slots have already been given to someone else but they can’t disclose who it is
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:10 pm

Wneast wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
I wonder if AS will pay top-dollar for the remaining PAE "slots".

what I find interesting the CEO of the airport says the slots have already been given to someone else but they can’t disclose who it is


Oh...well, it will be interesting what comes of it. But that "someone else" could be a little smoke screen to divert someone's thinking. But we'll have to see who gets those slots in the end.

It would be cool if it's some small guy like Contour Airlines...but I seriously doubt it.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:35 pm

Wneast wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
I wonder if AS will pay top-dollar for the remaining PAE "slots".

what I find interesting the CEO of the airport says the slots have already been given to someone else but they can’t disclose who it is


Please show where the airport CEO has already given the slots to someone else? I thought he said a few others have expressed interest. Big difference.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:41 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
I wonder if AS will pay top-dollar for the remaining PAE "slots".

what I find interesting the CEO of the airport says the slots have already been given to someone else but they can’t disclose who it is


Please show where the airport CEO has already given the slots to someone else? I thought he said a few others have expressed interest. Big difference.


I still think the UA slots will go to the highest bidder.
 
Wneast
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:03 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
I wonder if AS will pay top-dollar for the remaining PAE "slots".

what I find interesting the CEO of the airport says the slots have already been given to someone else but they can’t disclose who it is


Please show where the airport CEO has already given the slots to someone else? I thought he said a few others have expressed interest. Big difference.

https://twitter.com/jetcitystar/status/ ... 6498253826 it’s said here to the media
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:01 am

The Tweet said they already have a carrier lined up for those slots...so it could still be AS. I know...picking on this is like beating a dead horse.
 
Wneast
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:03 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
The Tweet said they already have a carrier lined up for those slots...so it could still be AS. I know...picking on this is like beating a dead horse.

True I’m not saying it won’t be AS just that it’s already decided so we will see
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:10 am

Wneast wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
The Tweet said they already have a carrier lined up for those slots...so it could still be AS. I know...picking on this is like beating a dead horse.

True I’m not saying it won’t be AS just that it’s already decided so we will see


I'm excited to see what happens. If it goes to other potential tenants, then I would really be interested where they would fly. If it's AS, then I would definitely be interest where else they may go or return they've had to sacrifice. Hopefully, we'll here sooner rather than later...maybe before the Holidays.

All three of those gates are capable of 737 or Airbus narrowbodies.
 
Wneast
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:16 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
The Tweet said they already have a carrier lined up for those slots...so it could still be AS. I know...picking on this is like beating a dead horse.

True I’m not saying it won’t be AS just that it’s already decided so we will see


I'm excited to see what happens. If it goes to other potential tenants, then I would really be interested where they would fly. If it's AS, then I would definitely be interest where else they may go or return they've had to sacrifice. Hopefully, we'll here sooner rather than later...maybe before the Holidays.

All three of those gates are capable of 737 or Airbus narrowbodies.

Hawaii fight maybe unlikely but one could hope that would be cool to see
 
32andBelow
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:01 am

EA CO AS wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
We’ll see how strong demand is this winter. But maybe they are to cover maintenance checks on the 737s.


System-wide LF in Q2 was 77%. Guidance for Q3 is in the 82-85% bracket. Demand is clearly there.


Daily systemwide LF has consistently been near or just above 90% for all of July. Airports and Contact Centers have been implementing mandatory overtime for months and are now paying a premium of 0.5X pay over and above the normal 1.5X/2.0X pay agents earn when working these OT/DT pay hours.

Yes, demand is absolutely there.
aren’t we talking about November?
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:45 am

32andBelow wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:

System-wide LF in Q2 was 77%. Guidance for Q3 is in the 82-85% bracket. Demand is clearly there.


Daily systemwide LF has consistently been near or just above 90% for all of July. Airports and Contact Centers have been implementing mandatory overtime for months and are now paying a premium of 0.5X pay over and above the normal 1.5X/2.0X pay agents earn when working these OT/DT pay hours.

Yes, demand is absolutely there.
aren’t we talking about November?



Yes, but speaking to trends about forward bookings and demand being higher than 2019 can allow one to draw reasonable conclusions about what November may look like.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
F9Animal
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:35 pm

Hey all! I noticed at least 3 of AS 737 MAX's parked near cargo in Seattle today. Anyone know what's going on with them? Are they possibly getting wifi installed?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:02 pm

An FYI to AS-watchers. It appears that last night, during the Saturday night OAG update, AS started trimming and plucking away at the December schedules; I wouldn't call it finalized yet but fairly substantial (and expected) frequency reductions were made.

I can only speak of SAN (since I know those skeds very well) but lots of our markets had added frequencies on the advanced skeds -- place holder flights essentially -- that are now gone. For example, for SAN-FAT, the advanced Dec 1 sked continued to show 4 daily flights and in fact, that's what still showed yesterday (during the daytime.) Then the Saturday night purge happened. Today, SAN-FAT is down to 2 flights in Dec. That has happened in many other markets from SAN as well, including OGG, SLC, MRY, BOI; each of these markets now show only 1 daily r/t. (And that is certainly no surprise to me.)

I assume this sort of trimming was done system-wide. But the flights that remain still show pretty much daily frequencies, and the timing of the flights has not really changed so I think last night's cuts were just to get the December schedules closer to reality so AS will not have to re-accommodate as many people; after all, people are certainly booking their holiday travel now... I believe the real cuts (further reduction of existing frequencies, many to below daily) will happen in a week or 2 as the December schedules are initially finalized and will end up much closer to what they will actually look like in December, including the Holiday period.

I expect that pretty soon, the December skeds will look fairly similar to the now-adjusted November ones.... And they're not all that pretty.

bb
 
AC4500
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:18 pm

SANFan wrote:
An FYI to AS-watchers. It appears that last night, during the Saturday night OAG update, AS started trimming and plucking away at the December schedules; I wouldn't call it finalized yet but fairly substantial (and expected) frequency reductions were made.

I can only speak of SAN (since I know those skeds very well) but lots of our markets had added frequencies on the advanced skeds -- place holder flights essentially -- that are now gone. For example, for SAN-FAT, the advanced Dec 1 sked continued to show 4 daily flights and in fact, that's what still showed yesterday (during the daytime.) Then the Saturday night purge happened. Today, SAN-FAT is down to 2 flights in Dec. That has happened in many other markets from SAN as well, including OGG, SLC, MRY, BOI; each of these markets now show only 1 daily r/t. (And that is certainly no surprise to me.)

I assume this sort of trimming was done system-wide. But the flights that remain still show pretty much daily frequencies, and the timing of the flights has not really changed so I think last night's cuts were just to get the December schedules closer to reality so AS will not have to re-accommodate as many people; after all, people are certainly booking their holiday travel now... I believe the real cuts (further reduction of existing frequencies, many to below daily) will happen in a week or 2 as the December schedules are initially finalized and will end up much closer to what they will actually look like in December, including the Holiday period.

I expect that pretty soon, the December skeds will look fairly similar to the now-adjusted November ones.... And they're not all that pretty.

bb

Looks like the second daily SAN-MCO flight has been permanently cut as well.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:42 pm

thanksgiving <-> christmas is a SUPER light travel period!
xx
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:15 am

AC4500 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
An FYI to AS-watchers. It appears that last night, during the Saturday night OAG update, AS started trimming and plucking away at the December schedules; I wouldn't call it finalized yet but fairly substantial (and expected) frequency reductions were made.
bb

Looks like the second daily SAN-MCO flight has been permanently cut as well.

Yes, that was removed last week from the advanced skeds. I doubt it's permanent but they are apparently just not yet seeing the traffic they thought they would in the market. (AS's been planning on adding the 2nd nonstop in the market since last year.) And as I think I've mentioned before, I believe AS is right now the only carrier in the market... WN and F9 are not flying it due, probably, to lack of traffic!

usxguy wrote:
thanksgiving <-> christmas is a SUPER light travel period!

Huh? Do you mean the 2 weeks between 11/29 and 12/15? I agree although there are certainly some winter-only seasonal routes that fly then. Much business travel is non-existent during that period and many leisure travelers hold off on their trips until the kids are out of school.

But of course a lot of that slack is made up for during the peak holiday periods; I believe the Wednesday before T'giving and the Sunday after are, at least in San Diego, two of the most highly traveled days of the year. The weekend before Christmas (around 12/17-19) and the few days following New Year's are also very heavy travel days. AS reflects that in that there are some flights that don't fly daily in the first part of December but frequencies are at least daily between roughly 12/17 and 1/3, such as FLL. Some routes don't begin flying until around 12/16 such as HDN and JAC. As of now.

Some of the adjustments I mentioned that AS has now made are certainly different between the 1st two weeks of Dec and the last two! It's like 2 entirely different schedules (which is how I handle it.) One thing is for sure: there will be lots more changes before December arrives.

bb
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:10 am

SANFan wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
An FYI to AS-watchers. It appears that last night, during the Saturday night OAG update, AS started trimming and plucking away at the December schedules; I wouldn't call it finalized yet but fairly substantial (and expected) frequency reductions were made.
bb

Looks like the second daily SAN-MCO flight has been permanently cut as well.

Yes, that was removed last week from the advanced skeds. I doubt it's permanent but they are apparently just not yet seeing the traffic they thought they would in the market. (AS's been planning on adding the 2nd nonstop in the market since last year.) And as I think I've mentioned before, I believe AS is right now the only carrier in the market... WN and F9 are not flying it due, probably, to lack of traffic!

usxguy wrote:
thanksgiving <-> christmas is a SUPER light travel period!

Huh? Do you mean the 2 weeks between 11/29 and 12/15? I agree although there are certainly some winter-only seasonal routes that fly then. Much business travel is non-existent during that period and many leisure travelers hold off on their trips until the kids are out of school.

But of course a lot of that slack is made up for during the peak holiday periods; I believe the Wednesday before T'giving and the Sunday after are, at least in San Diego, two of the most highly traveled days of the year. The weekend before Christmas (around 12/17-19) and the few days following New Year's are also very heavy travel days. AS reflects that in that there are some flights that don't fly daily in the first part of December but frequencies are at least daily between roughly 12/17 and 1/3, such as FLL. Some routes don't begin flying until around 12/16 such as HDN and JAC. As of now.

Some of the adjustments I mentioned that AS has now made are certainly different between the 1st two weeks of Dec and the last two! It's like 2 entirely different schedules (which is how I handle it.) One thing is for sure: there will be lots more changes before December arrives.

bb


Record COVID cases in FL probably isn't helping their loads. It's possible that the reduction in SAN frequency just might be a precursor to new or resumed Winter ski/snowboard flights.
 
airlinepeanuts
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:15 pm

jbpdx wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
b777900 wrote:
Any update on Alaska adding Toronto or Halifax? WOW NS to SEA ...

Yep, I'm sure Toronto and Halifax are major priorities for AS right now. :roll:

Maybe they'll add Toronto in the near future, but certainly not Halifax.

They should consider PDX-YYZ now that Air Canada has dropped the route, which was never flown much anyway. Or maybe WestJet.


I recall AS operated LAX-YYZ for a while and my understanding was it was hit or miss in terms of LF but what killed them was AC would undercut them on price until they pulled out.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:32 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
Looks like the second daily SAN-MCO flight has been permanently cut as well.

Yes, that was removed last week from the advanced skeds. I doubt it's permanent but they are apparently just not yet seeing the traffic they thought they would in the market. (AS's been planning on adding the 2nd nonstop in the market since last year.) And as I think I've mentioned before, I believe AS is right now the only carrier in the market... WN and F9 are not flying it due, probably, to lack of traffic!

usxguy wrote:
thanksgiving <-> christmas is a SUPER light travel period!

Huh? Do you mean the 2 weeks between 11/29 and 12/15? I agree although there are certainly some winter-only seasonal routes that fly then. Much business travel is non-existent during that period and many leisure travelers hold off on their trips until the kids are out of school.

But of course a lot of that slack is made up for during the peak holiday periods; I believe the Wednesday before T'giving and the Sunday after are, at least in San Diego, two of the most highly traveled days of the year. The weekend before Christmas (around 12/17-19) and the few days following New Year's are also very heavy travel days. AS reflects that in that there are some flights that don't fly daily in the first part of December but frequencies are at least daily between roughly 12/17 and 1/3, such as FLL. Some routes don't begin flying until around 12/16 such as HDN and JAC. As of now.

Some of the adjustments I mentioned that AS has now made are certainly different between the 1st two weeks of Dec and the last two! It's like 2 entirely different schedules (which is how I handle it.) One thing is for sure: there will be lots more changes before December arrives.

bb


Record COVID cases in FL probably isn't helping their loads. It's possible that the reduction in SAN frequency just might be a precursor to new or resumed Winter ski/snowboard flights.


Demand to and from Florida is still not hurting. Miami is the first major airport to be above 2019 numbers and all the secondary airports are pretty much far above it.
a.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:04 pm

airlinepeanuts wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
Yep, I'm sure Toronto and Halifax are major priorities for AS right now. :roll:

Maybe they'll add Toronto in the near future, but certainly not Halifax.

They should consider PDX-YYZ now that Air Canada has dropped the route, which was never flown much anyway. Or maybe WestJet.


I recall AS operated LAX-YYZ for a while and my understanding was it was hit or miss in terms of LF but what killed them was AC would undercut them on price until they pulled out.


Undercut on price AND dropped a B747 on the route while AS was only using an MD80.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
airlinepeanuts
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:08 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
airlinepeanuts wrote:
jbpdx wrote:

They should consider PDX-YYZ now that Air Canada has dropped the route, which was never flown much anyway. Or maybe WestJet.


I recall AS operated LAX-YYZ for a while and my understanding was it was hit or miss in terms of LF but what killed them was AC would undercut them on price until they pulled out.


Undercut on price AND dropped a B747 on the route while AS was only using an MD80.


Yikes didn’t know that. Yeah AS had the cards stacked against them on that route for sure.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:11 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Undercut on price AND dropped a B747 on the route while AS was only using an MD80.


How long ago was that? AS retired its last MD-80 in 2008, right? The last AC 747 went in 2004. SEA has evolved quite a bit in the last two decades.
 
jashah
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:57 pm

I frequently fly to the USA from YYJ via SEA on AS. I have some travel coming up and they currently only have one flight per day between YYJ and SEA through December. Starting in January, they are back to the usual 4 flights a day. Only having 1 flight a day makes connections very inconvenient.

Does anyone know if the schedule through December is finalized? Obviously, things are in flux with the changing COVID situation but I’m trying to get a sense if I should hold off booking with AS for now or start looking at another airline?
 
Western727
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:28 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Undercut on price AND dropped a B747 on the route while AS was only using an MD80.


How long ago was that? AS retired its last MD-80 in 2008, right? The last AC 747 went in 2004. SEA has evolved quite a bit in the last two decades.


An M80 betwen YYZ and LAX??? That's 2,175 mi long according to gcmap. I don't doubt that, though, knowing EA CO AS's rep, and I presume only the MD-83 did it. My question is if it went payload restricted on the westbound portion in the winter. If so, perhaps that was another (albeit smaller) ding on the service?
Jack @ AUS
 
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usxguy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:51 pm

I'm still waiting to see PDX/JNU added :)
xx
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:04 pm

usxguy wrote:
thanksgiving <-> christmas is a SUPER light travel period!


True! Having worked for years in planning, it's quite typical for the first half of both November and December to be quite light on the schedule...particularly mid-week. Creates difficulty in building schedules for the crews as the flying ramps up right when they don't want to be working...the last week of Nov and from about Dec 18-Jan 5. Then the cuts are back from early Jan through the start of the kiddie's spring breaks. Happens every year. The summer schedule used to last until after Labor Day weekend in the US but now they start to make cuts in late August. Remember the good old days of paper timetables? Airlines operating two or four seasonal schedules per year are long gone.
 
chrisair
Posts: 2229
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:11 pm

Western727 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

How long ago was that? AS retired its last MD-80 in 2008, right? The last AC 747 went in 2004. SEA has evolved quite a bit in the last two decades.


An M80 betwen YYZ and LAX??? That's 2,175 mi long according to gcmap. I don't doubt that, though, knowing EA CO AS's rep, and I presume only the MD-83 did it. My question is if it went payload restricted on the westbound portion in the winter. If so, perhaps that was another (albeit smaller) ding on the service?


Sometime in the mid 90s if I remember seeing the route maps in the magazine.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:16 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
airlinepeanuts wrote:
jbpdx wrote:

They should consider PDX-YYZ now that Air Canada has dropped the route, which was never flown much anyway. Or maybe WestJet.


I recall AS operated LAX-YYZ for a while and my understanding was it was hit or miss in terms of LF but what killed them was AC would undercut them on price until they pulled out.


Undercut on price AND dropped a B747 on the route while AS was only using an MD80.

Are you sure it wasn't on a 737-400?
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5684
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:17 pm

jashah wrote:
I frequently fly to the USA from YYJ via SEA on AS. I have some travel coming up and they currently only have one flight per day between YYJ and SEA through December. Starting in January, they are back to the usual 4 flights a day. Only having 1 flight a day makes connections very inconvenient.

Does anyone know if the schedule through December is finalized? Obviously, things are in flux with the changing COVID situation but I’m trying to get a sense if I should hold off booking with AS for now or start looking at another airline?

I posted somewhere (maybe here, upthread) that AS just last Saturday night did start fooling around with the December skeds; for SAN, for example, they removed lots of "excess" flights (multiple frequencies that were still part of the advanced schedules) but the fine tuning, such as further cuts by reducing flights to sub-daily and time adjustments, is yet to happen. I predict it will happen in the next week or two simply because they want to get the holiday flights, in particular, more accurate than they are now, in order to cut down on reaccommodations that will be needed as people continuing to book their holiday travel. Of course nothing is really locked in until about December 1...

As I'm sure you know, the 4 flights you mentioned in January are because that's the advanced place-holder skeds and that will very likely be much reduced as January approaches.

bb
 
User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3717
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:44 am

Aliqiout wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
airlinepeanuts wrote:

I recall AS operated LAX-YYZ for a while and my understanding was it was hit or miss in terms of LF but what killed them was AC would undercut them on price until they pulled out.


Undercut on price AND dropped a B747 on the route while AS was only using an MD80.

Are you sure it wasn't on a 737-400?


It was an MD-80. Pretty sure it was late 1980s, so the 734s weren't in the fleet yet. In any case (as stated before), AC went out of their way to kill it and it didn't last very long.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:49 am

[threeid]
[/threeid]
gunsontheroof wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

Undercut on price AND dropped a B747 on the route while AS was only using an MD80.

Are you sure it wasn't on a 737-400?


It was an MD-80. Pretty sure it was late 1980s, so the 734s weren't in the fleet yet. In any case (as stated before), AC went out of their way to kill it and it didn't last very long.


I believe they flew this on and off until early 2000’s and with the 734 at that time. May be wrong though.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1873
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:54 am

gunsontheroof wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

Undercut on price AND dropped a B747 on the route while AS was only using an MD80.

Are you sure it wasn't on a 737-400?


It was an MD-80. Pretty sure it was late 1980s, so the 734s weren't in the fleet yet. In any case (as stated before), AC went out of their way to kill it and it didn't last very long.


LAX-YYZ at AS operated in 1991 and 1992.
 
Western727
Posts: 2004
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:27 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
Are you sure it wasn't on a 737-400?


It was an MD-80. Pretty sure it was late 1980s, so the 734s weren't in the fleet yet. In any case (as stated before), AC went out of their way to kill it and it didn't last very long.


LAX-YYZ at AS operated in 1991 and 1992.


So it was an M80, then. I posted earlier asking about the variant, but it got deleted so I'll try again: I presume it was specifically flown by the MD-83, since YYZ-LAX is 2,175 mi. I wonder if the flight left YYZ weight-restricted on the westbound segment, especially in the winter.
Jack @ AUS
 
Chugach
Posts: 1383
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:40 pm

Western727 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:

It was an MD-80. Pretty sure it was late 1980s, so the 734s weren't in the fleet yet. In any case (as stated before), AC went out of their way to kill it and it didn't last very long.


LAX-YYZ at AS operated in 1991 and 1992.


So it was an M80, then. I posted earlier asking about the variant, but it got deleted so I'll try again: I presume it was specifically flown by the MD-83, since YYZ-LAX is 2,175 mi. I wonder if the flight left YYZ weight-restricted on the westbound segment, especially in the winter.


No idea on the weight restriction, but AS in those days had some MD-80’s with longer range fuel tanks to handle the LAX/SFO-ANC and ANC-Russia routes.
 
Western727
Posts: 2004
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:33 pm

Chugach wrote:
Western727 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:

LAX-YYZ at AS operated in 1991 and 1992.


So it was an M80, then. I posted earlier asking about the variant, but it got deleted so I'll try again: I presume it was specifically flown by the MD-83, since YYZ-LAX is 2,175 mi. I wonder if the flight left YYZ weight-restricted on the westbound segment, especially in the winter.


No idea on the weight restriction, but AS in those days had some MD-80’s with longer range fuel tanks to handle the LAX/SFO-ANC and ANC-Russia routes.


Thanks, Chugach, for the California-ANC and ANC-Far East M80 flights which I'd forgotten about. For comparison with the YYZ-LAX distance of 2,175 mi, LAX-ANC is 2,345 mi and SFO-ANC is 2,018 mi. ANC-GDX (Magadan) is 1,954 mi.

EDIT: forgot to add the Russian flights.
Jack @ AUS
 
Dash8Driver16
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:07 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:20 pm

I am pretty sure that the LAX-YYZ was a legacy Jet America route that AS tried to keep afloat.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1873
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:23 pm

Dash8Driver16 wrote:
I am pretty sure that the LAX-YYZ was a legacy Jet America route that AS tried to keep afloat.


nope - it was all Alaska. It started way after the JA merger
 
Chugach
Posts: 1383
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:46 pm

Western727 wrote:
Chugach wrote:
Western727 wrote:

So it was an M80, then. I posted earlier asking about the variant, but it got deleted so I'll try again: I presume it was specifically flown by the MD-83, since YYZ-LAX is 2,175 mi. I wonder if the flight left YYZ weight-restricted on the westbound segment, especially in the winter.


No idea on the weight restriction, but AS in those days had some MD-80’s with longer range fuel tanks to handle the LAX/SFO-ANC and ANC-Russia routes.


Thanks, Chugach, for the California-ANC and ANC-Far East M80 flights which I'd forgotten about. For comparison with the YYZ-LAX distance of 2,175 mi, LAX-ANC is 2,345 mi and SFO-ANC is 2,018 mi. ANC-GDX (Magadan) is 1,954 mi.

EDIT: forgot to add the Russian flights.


ANC-Russia isn’t that far on a great circle route, but the great circle route does require ETOPS, which the MD’s didn’t have. So when AS flew it, they had to go north towards OME and cross over the Bering Strait, then go south. That adds a lot of distance. Pretty sure Yakutia does/did the same thing on their ANC-PKC flights (who knows if Yakutia will ever be back in ANC).
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5741
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:50 pm

Chugach wrote:
Western727 wrote:
Chugach wrote:

No idea on the weight restriction, but AS in those days had some MD-80’s with longer range fuel tanks to handle the LAX/SFO-ANC and ANC-Russia routes.


Thanks, Chugach, for the California-ANC and ANC-Far East M80 flights which I'd forgotten about. For comparison with the YYZ-LAX distance of 2,175 mi, LAX-ANC is 2,345 mi and SFO-ANC is 2,018 mi. ANC-GDX (Magadan) is 1,954 mi.

EDIT: forgot to add the Russian flights.


ANC-Russia isn’t that far on a great circle route, but the great circle route does require ETOPS, which the MD’s didn’t have. So when AS flew it, they had to go north towards OME and cross over the Bering Strait, then go south. That adds a lot of distance. Pretty sure Yakutia does/did the same thing on their ANC-PKC flights (who knows if Yakutia will ever be back in ANC).


AS originally started Russia Far-East with 727-200's.
 
oosnowrat
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:55 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:25 am

ASFlyer wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
Are you sure it wasn't on a 737-400?


It was an MD-80. Pretty sure it was late 1980s, so the 734s weren't in the fleet yet. In any case (as stated before), AC went out of their way to kill it and it didn't last very long.


LAX-YYZ at AS operated in 1991 and 1992.


The route started October 8, 1991, and was 2x daily. The timetable didn't specify aircraft.

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