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tphuang
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:44 am

EA CO AS wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:

What exactly is your argument?


Enplanement data isn't O&D. Destination is the D in O&D. Allegiantflyer cited BTS data calling PHX the number 1 destination from SEA but that's not what the data purport. There are enplanements SEA-PHX continuing beyond PHX.

Yes, I guess we did need a discussion of what destination really means.



Continuing beyond PHX on whom? AS isn’t co-located with AA at PHX and anyone headed anywhere on AA is likely connecting over PHX on AA or DFW already.


Miflyer said phx but this would also apply to sea. Fundamentally, #1 route should be based on o&d numbers rather than enplanement numbers.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:46 am

tphuang wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Enplanement data isn't O&D. Destination is the D in O&D. Allegiantflyer cited BTS data calling PHX the number 1 destination from SEA but that's not what the data purport. There are enplanements SEA-PHX continuing beyond PHX.

Yes, I guess we did need a discussion of what destination really means.



Continuing beyond PHX on whom? AS isn’t co-located with AA at PHX and anyone headed anywhere on AA is likely connecting over PHX on AA or DFW already.


Miflyer said phx but this would also apply to sea. Fundamentally, #1 route should be based on o&d numbers rather than enplanement numbers.


Why? Connections or not, more people are flying SEA-PHX than any other route.
 
tphuang
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:01 am

jbs2886 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:


Continuing beyond PHX on whom? AS isn’t co-located with AA at PHX and anyone headed anywhere on AA is likely connecting over PHX on AA or DFW already.


Miflyer said phx but this would also apply to sea. Fundamentally, #1 route should be based on o&d numbers rather than enplanement numbers.


Why? Connections or not, more people are flying SEA-PHX than any other route.


well technically, a lot of those people are flying a lot further than just from SEA to PHX. BTS report on market size only looks at origin and destination airports.
 
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b777900
Posts: 465
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:42 am

QXAS wrote:
b777900 wrote:
What is the status of 737Max 9 REG N60436 to join Alaska;s fleet is it ready for service?? IS it still in test mode?


I believe it will continue various tests through the end of the year and be delivered as N979AK in early 2022. This is due to it being a member of the eco-demonstrator program. Once Boeing completes the regimen for that the airplane will be handed over to AS.



OK great thanks for that explanation, hoping soon AS will start flying the new Max 9 to the east coast.
 
joeblow10
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:34 am

Looking ahead to next summer - it seems AS has scheduled QX to do a much larger portion of intra-AK flying. I’m seeing every ANC-FAI frequency (!!) has gone over to QX, and ANC-DLG/AKN as well (both currently reduced to 1x daily, but no more mainline option)

Can anyone confirm this is the plan or just placeholders for now? I would be somewhat shocked if they run ANC-FAI without a single mainline frequency for positioning

Additionally - ANC-DEN/MSP look to be back and daily, from June
 
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452QX
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:53 am

QXAS wrote:
Looks like Max #6 will be a leased frame and will bear the registration N921AK. Are the leased frames being included in the sequence that began with N913AK or is this a one off because N291BT freed up a tail number in the sequence?


291BT is the one off, as it was originally 920AK. 921AK would just continue the sequence as if 291 was still 920 all along
 
gmcc
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:41 am

joeblow10 wrote:
Looking ahead to next summer - it seems AS has scheduled QX to do a much larger portion of intra-AK flying. I’m seeing every ANC-FAI frequency (!!) has gone over to QX, and ANC-DLG/AKN as well (both currently reduced to 1x daily, but no more mainline option)

Can anyone confirm this is the plan or just placeholders for now? I would be somewhat shocked if they run ANC-FAI without a single mainline frequency for positioning

Additionally - ANC-DEN/MSP look to be back and daily, from June

Given the grumbling going on the alaska air portion of airlinepilotforums.com that would appear to be the case.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:19 am

joeblow10 wrote:
Looking ahead to next summer - it seems AS has scheduled QX to do a much larger portion of intra-AK flying. I’m seeing every ANC-FAI frequency (!!) has gone over to QX, and ANC-DLG/AKN as well (both currently reduced to 1x daily, but no more mainline option)

Can anyone confirm this is the plan or just placeholders for now? I would be somewhat shocked if they run ANC-FAI without a single mainline frequency for positioning

Additionally - ANC-DEN/MSP look to be back and daily, from June


Well, if the DEN/MSP-ANC holds, then it means the routes worked, unlike a lot of the naysayers.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5742
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:35 am

[photoid][/photoid]
joeblow10 wrote:
Looking ahead to next summer - it seems AS has scheduled QX to do a much larger portion of intra-AK flying. I’m seeing every ANC-FAI frequency (!!) has gone over to QX, and ANC-DLG/AKN as well (both currently reduced to 1x daily, but no more mainline option)

Can anyone confirm this is the plan or just placeholders for now? I would be somewhat shocked if they run ANC-FAI without a single mainline frequency for positioning

Additionally - ANC-DEN/MSP look to be back and daily, from June

I would wager that they just haven’t loaded the mainline flying. That’s not enough lift on AKN DLG with penair gone.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1409
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:56 am

joeblow10 wrote:
Looking ahead to next summer - it seems AS has scheduled QX to do a much larger portion of intra-AK flying. I’m seeing every ANC-FAI frequency (!!) has gone over to QX, and ANC-DLG/AKN as well (both currently reduced to 1x daily, but no more mainline option)

Can anyone confirm this is the plan or just placeholders for now? I would be somewhat shocked if they run ANC-FAI without a single mainline frequency for positioning

Additionally - ANC-DEN/MSP look to be back and daily, from June


Summer schedule this far out is just a placeholder. I wouldn’t put any stock in it…typically they don’t firm up summer until about March.
 
chrisair
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:36 pm

EA CO AS wrote:

Continuing beyond PHX on whom? AS isn’t co-located with AA at PHX and anyone headed anywhere on AA is likely connecting over PHX on AA or DFW already.


Anecdotally, I’ve seen many people on SEA-PHX flights that are continuing onward on AA. It’s not as uncommon as you might think. I’ve seen people going to Mexico, Tucson, Yuma and even ABQ/ELP.
 
Aliqiout
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:48 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:

What exactly is your argument?


Enplanement data isn't O&D. Destination is the D in O&D. Allegiantflyer cited BTS data calling PHX the number 1 destination from SEA but that's not what the data purport. There are enplanements SEA-PHX continuing beyond PHX.

Yes, I guess we did need a discussion of what destination really means.



Continuing beyond PHX on whom? AS isn’t co-located with AA at PHX and anyone headed anywhere on AA is likely connecting over PHX on AA or DFW already.

I haven't had a reason to do it this time around, but prior to the last AA-AS paternship ending I did this regularly, and before that AS-HP PHX connections were common.
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 3179
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:12 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
dfw88 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

Laughlin/Bullhead City? Perhaps...but I doubt it.


IWA is the old code for AZA, Phoenix Mesa airport (Laughlin is IFP). But still, I also doubt it.


Thanks for the correction!


Not quite correct however,

IWA = FAA LID for Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport
AZA = IATA code for Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport
KIWA = ICAO code for Phoenix=Mesa Gateway Airport

So you can call it any of those and not be wrong.

'902
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:53 pm

AS is now dropping PAE-SAN in December. I was booked on December 27 and it was just cancelled. I’m sure our return on Jan. 4 will be dropped too.

PAE-SAN was 2x during that time until a few weeks ago. Then reduced to 1x. The dropped completely.

AS’s handling of PAE is a joke right now. Saying in the media that they intend to resume a full schedule early in 2022, but instead just a constant further discontinuance of flights every month.

What about PAE-TUS? Is that safe?
 
jbs2886
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:54 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
AS is now dropping PAE-SAN in December. I was booked on December 27 and it was just cancelled. I’m sure our return on Jan. 4 will be dropped too.

PAE-SAN was 2x during that time until a few weeks ago. Then reduced to 1x. The dropped completely.

AS’s handling of PAE is a joke right now. Saying in the media that they intend to resume a full schedule early in 2022, but instead just a constant further discontinuance of flights every month.

What about PAE-TUS? Is that safe?


I'm not saying its not frustrating, but its not like AS can predict how things will unfold. They are trying their best to navigate a very difficult environment.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:33 pm

[quote="BoeingGuy"]AS is now dropping PAE-SAN in December. I was booked on December 27 and it was just cancelled. I’m sure our return on Jan. 4 will be dropped too.

PAE-SAN was 2x during that time until a few weeks ago. Then reduced to 1x. The dropped completely.

AS’s handling of PAE is a joke right now. Saying in the media that they intend to resume a full schedule early in 2022, but instead just a constant further discontinuance of flights every month.

What about PAE-TUS? Is that safe?[/quote]
How is it a joke? Wouldn't it be a joke if they just kept running flights at a loss and went bankrupt?
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 447
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:34 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
AS is now dropping PAE-SAN in December. I was booked on December 27 and it was just cancelled. I’m sure our return on Jan. 4 will be dropped too.

PAE-SAN was 2x during that time until a few weeks ago. Then reduced to 1x. The dropped completely.

AS’s handling of PAE is a joke right now. Saying in the media that they intend to resume a full schedule early in 2022, but instead just a constant further discontinuance of flights every month.

What about PAE-TUS? Is that safe?


Yeah! Totally! A business should totally run an unprofitable route during a global pandemic. Alaska should have top scientists working on new and better vaccines and treatment to keep
PAE to meet your needs.
 
gmcc
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:04 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
AS is now dropping PAE-SAN in December. I was booked on December 27 and it was just cancelled. I’m sure our return on Jan. 4 will be dropped too.

PAE-SAN was 2x during that time until a few weeks ago. Then reduced to 1x. The dropped completely.

AS’s handling of PAE is a joke right now. Saying in the media that they intend to resume a full schedule early in 2022, but instead just a constant further discontinuance of flights every month.

What about PAE-TUS? Is that safe?


AS is paraphrasing their really good partners at Boeing. "If it ain't booking, it ain't flying. :duck: :duck:
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:13 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
AS is now dropping PAE-SAN in December. I was booked on December 27 and it was just cancelled. I’m sure our return on Jan. 4 will be dropped too.

PAE-SAN was 2x during that time until a few weeks ago. Then reduced to 1x. The dropped completely.

AS’s handling of PAE is a joke right now. Saying in the media that they intend to resume a full schedule early in 2022, but instead just a constant further discontinuance of flights every month.

What about PAE-TUS? Is that safe?


Yeah! Totally! A business should totally run an unprofitable route during a global pandemic. Alaska should have top scientists working on new and better vaccines and treatment to keep
PAE to meet your needs.


Maybe you and the other poster can be a bit less rude. Jbs2668 made his point in a polite respectful manner.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:59 pm

At this rate, AS will close PAE before next summer. Propeller will go out of business and the terminal will be abandoned and tagged.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:12 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
At this rate, AS will close PAE before next summer. Propeller will go out of business and the terminal will be abandoned and tagged.


What is left from PAE in the near term? LAS, PHX, and TUS?

They just dropped SAN. Not sure about PSP.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:29 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
At this rate, AS will close PAE before next summer. Propeller will go out of business and the terminal will be abandoned and tagged.


What is left from PAE in the near term? LAS, PHX, and TUS?

They just dropped SAN. Not sure about PSP.


Yeah...who knows. I think there is still PAE to GEG and BOI. But yeah, all of the Bay Area, L.A. Basin and SAN flights are history. PSP is still there but really pricey.
 
Jet-lagged
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:15 am

Seattle is still a big metropolitan area somewhat skinny West to East but long from North to South, healthy and growing, SeaTac is limited in how much it can grow without a lot of contortions, and the Puget Sound traffic is bad and getting worse. The Los Angeles metro has several airports, the Bay Area a couple, New York three, Chicago a couple, Dallas two, and Miami two if you include Fort Lauderdale. I'd be surprised if four to five years from now PAE isn't maxed out and people are talking about adding more gates.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:27 am

Jet-lagged wrote:
Seattle is still a big metropolitan area somewhat skinny West to East but long from North to South, healthy and growing, SeaTac is limited in how much it can grow without a lot of contortions, and the Puget Sound traffic is bad and getting worse. The Los Angeles metro has several airports, the Bay Area a couple, New York three, Chicago a couple, Dallas two, and Miami two if you include Fort Lauderdale. I'd be surprised if four to five years from now PAE isn't maxed out and people are talking about adding more gates.


You might be right...I'm just being dramatic. But unlike small airports, someone will have to cough up some money to pay for a new EPA study, along with community hearings, before any consideration of adding flights or gates to PAE.
 
joeblow10
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:05 am

The reality is - AS (and UA) had a whole year to test out PAE before COVID even became a thing. It clearly wasn’t working great to begin with as routes got juggled from day 1.

One year into COVID - and it’s still not working. I understand business travel isn’t back, but there has to be a bigger problem if you can’t get the likes of PAE-LAX or PAE-SAN to work on limited frequency, but you can from a place like BOI. Perhaps the demand everybody thought was there simply isn’t. I do think it’s fascinating WN pulled the plug on PAE well before possibly announcing it… maybe they had some data to suggest it wasn’t a sure thing, who knows

And as I’ve said, if AS can’t get it to work, no one will… at least not in the Seattle metro
 
alasizon
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:06 am

joeblow10 wrote:
The reality is - AS (and UA) had a whole year to test out PAE before COVID even became a thing. It clearly wasn’t working great to begin with as routes got juggled from day 1.

One year into COVID - and it’s still not working. I understand business travel isn’t back, but there has to be a bigger problem if you can’t get the likes of PAE-LAX or PAE-SAN to work on limited frequency, but you can from a place like BOI. Perhaps the demand everybody thought was there simply isn’t. I do think it’s fascinating WN pulled the plug on PAE well before possibly announcing it… maybe they had some data to suggest it wasn’t a sure thing, who knows

And as I’ve said, if AS can’t get it to work, no one will… at least not in the Seattle metro


The issue isn't the lack of demand over PAE, it is rather just due to the nature of SEA. With the dueling AS and DL hubs, prices are depressed so heavily that SEA wins on both price and frequency for the key markets. As such, very hard to make PAE make sense.
 
sfojvjets
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:19 am

Alaska's SFO Lounge is set to open tomorrow! The renderings displayed unfortunately look quite like a glorified middle school cafeteria, but I sure hope the unveiling proves otherwise. Excited to see what they do with the former Admirals Club space, but I will most definitely be pissed if it turns out looking like those trashy renderings... It's all about architecture, accents, and natural light, people! :lol:
 
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itripreport
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:32 pm

sfojvjets wrote:
Alaska's SFO Lounge is set to open tomorrow! The renderings displayed unfortunately look quite like a glorified middle school cafeteria, but I sure hope the unveiling proves otherwise. Excited to see what they do with the former Admirals Club space, but I will most definitely be pissed if it turns out looking like those trashy renderings... It's all about architecture, accents, and natural light, people! :lol:


Well it did used to be an admirals club, so they didn't really have much to work with in terms of natural lighting and space to innovate!
 
sfojvjets
Posts: 251
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:00 pm

itripreport wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
Alaska's SFO Lounge is set to open tomorrow! The renderings displayed unfortunately look quite like a glorified middle school cafeteria, but I sure hope the unveiling proves otherwise. Excited to see what they do with the former Admirals Club space, but I will most definitely be pissed if it turns out looking like those trashy renderings... It's all about architecture, accents, and natural light, people! :lol:


Well it did used to be an admirals club, so they didn't really have much to work with in terms of natural lighting and space to innovate!

Yeah. Although it was their choice to change the location from the T2 rooftop to the old Admirals club. I do blame them for that.

Underwhelming but I guess you're right that they couldn't really do much given that they wanted to spend less $$$.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:17 am

I just noticed that AS has essentially suspended PDX-DCA for the month of October; there is a r/t in the market on 10/1 & 10/3, and then nothing until 10/31. That's what AS shows as of now.

My wondering concerns the nature of the route. PDX-DCA was a hard-fought battle to get, as part of the last DCA Beyond-Perimeter hearings in 2012 involving Congress and the DOT. The route is very restricted (essentially non-changeable) even down to the times it op's due to the conditions at Reagan, and I'm curious if AS can indeed simply suspend the route entirely for almost a whole month?

Since this particular Beyond-Perimeter Exception route is capped at a single daily flight by a single carrier, it is particularly obvious when it doesn't operate. I'm not aware of any of the other such routes to other western cities (including SEA, DEN, PHX, LAX, AUS, SLC) seeing any trimming of their permitted flights but it does raise a question in my mind regarding any restrictions as to whether a designated carrier can just cease serving a Beyond-Perimeter route, either temporarily or permanently? If they do, is anything triggered at the DOT regarding non-service of an awarded route of this kind? Could there be temporary changes in place to the rules to allow suspensions due to Covid?

I do see that the PDX-route resumes daily service in November (as of now) but that could certainly change if AS doesn't see the traffic in the market..

Does anyone out there have any information or thoughts on this situation? Since I had a pony in this race, I consider myself pretty familiar with many of the particular facets of the 2012 Beyond-Perimeter case but don't know about temporary suspensions of the awarded routes. I don't believe I've ever seen it happen before.

bb
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:54 am

SANFan wrote:
Since this particular Beyond-Perimeter Exception route is capped at a single daily flight by a single carrier, it is particularly obvious when it doesn't operate. I'm not aware of any of the other such routes to other western cities (including SEA, DEN, PHX, LAX, AUS, SLC) seeing any trimming of their permitted flights but it does raise a question in my mind regarding any restrictions as to whether a designated carrier can just cease serving a Beyond-Perimeter route, either temporarily or permanently? If they do, is anything triggered at the DOT regarding non-service of an awarded route of this kind? Could there be temporary changes in place to the rules to allow suspensions due to Covid?


That's a good series of questions. I looked at two DOT orders granting exemptions and don't find a must-serve clause but the DOT may withdraw slot exemptions (if a new service isn't started in a timely fashion, or if a service is suspended). It would be interesting to know whether AS got some assurances the exemption wouldn't be pulled for its 1-month suspension DCA-PDX. I could imagine a certain carrier protesting it, offering to start service within days of gaining the exemption.
 
sxf24
Posts: 1355
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:49 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Since this particular Beyond-Perimeter Exception route is capped at a single daily flight by a single carrier, it is particularly obvious when it doesn't operate. I'm not aware of any of the other such routes to other western cities (including SEA, DEN, PHX, LAX, AUS, SLC) seeing any trimming of their permitted flights but it does raise a question in my mind regarding any restrictions as to whether a designated carrier can just cease serving a Beyond-Perimeter route, either temporarily or permanently? If they do, is anything triggered at the DOT regarding non-service of an awarded route of this kind? Could there be temporary changes in place to the rules to allow suspensions due to Covid?


That's a good series of questions. I looked at two DOT orders granting exemptions and don't find a must-serve clause but the DOT may withdraw slot exemptions (if a new service isn't started in a timely fashion, or if a service is suspended). It would be interesting to know whether AS got some assurances the exemption wouldn't be pulled for its 1-month suspension DCA-PDX. I could imagine a certain carrier protesting it, offering to start service within days of gaining the exemption.


We've seen service reductions or suspensions on every beyond-perimeter route at some point in the past 18 months.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:50 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Since this particular Beyond-Perimeter Exception route is capped at a single daily flight by a single carrier, it is particularly obvious when it doesn't operate. I'm not aware of any of the other such routes to other western cities (including SEA, DEN, PHX, LAX, AUS, SLC) seeing any trimming of their permitted flights but it does raise a question in my mind regarding any restrictions as to whether a designated carrier can just cease serving a Beyond-Perimeter route, either temporarily or permanently? If they do, is anything triggered at the DOT regarding non-service of an awarded route of this kind? Could there be temporary changes in place to the rules to allow suspensions due to Covid?

That's a good series of questions. I looked at two DOT orders granting exemptions and don't find a must-serve clause but the DOT may withdraw slot exemptions (if a new service isn't started in a timely fashion, or if a service is suspended). It would be interesting to know whether AS got some assurances the exemption wouldn't be pulled for its 1-month suspension DCA-PDX. I could imagine a certain carrier protesting it, offering to start service within days of gaining the exemption.

It's nice to see that I'm not the only one that finds the situation interesting. Thanks for the feedback Mlflyer'

sxf24 wrote:
We've seen service reductions or suspensions on every beyond-perimeter route at some point in the past 18 months.

Thanks for that but I obviously haven't seen the widespread reductions or suspensions that you have. Temporary reductions I can sort of understand -- although that still could violate the terms of the awarded routes -- but I still wonder, for example, if there are limits as to how long one of these routes can be suspended, what is the procedure if an award needs to be reassigned, and so on?

With all that's involved in order to win one of these Beyond-Perimeter routes, I'm sure Mlflyer is right and there are carriers (and cities?) who would love to grab "unused" awards and start their own DCA-service tomorrow -- if that's a thing! Just wondering out loud here...

bb
 
gmcc
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:29 pm

This job posting on alaskaair.jobs might explain the rudderless feel some California residents have been feeling from AS lately. I remember AS having an Regional VP California and my old brain seems to remember she left around the time COVID-19 hit.

I would recommend a.net's SANFan on the condition that it not be all about SAN :lol:

https://alaskaair.jobs/burlingame-ca/re ... job/?vs=10
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:45 am

gmcc wrote:
This job posting on alaskaair.jobs might explain the rudderless feel some California residents have been feeling from AS lately. I remember AS having an Regional VP California and my old brain seems to remember she left around the time COVID-19 hit.

I would recommend a.net's SANFan on the condition that it not be all about SAN :lol:

https://alaskaair.jobs/burlingame-ca/re ... job/?vs=10

LOL! Sorry, not if they make me move to Burlingame! Otherwise, I'd be happy to do it but I'm afraid you're right -- the skeds just might end up being a bit SAN-heavy!

I will say that my first official announcement would be the adding of a Lounge at SAN, right near the AS ticket counter to give all the high-Milers a break from the loveliness that is T2E! There's got to be enough room where the former 2-story FIS used to be located!

bb
 
USAirKid
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Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:49 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Since this particular Beyond-Perimeter Exception route is capped at a single daily flight by a single carrier, it is particularly obvious when it doesn't operate. I'm not aware of any of the other such routes to other western cities (including SEA, DEN, PHX, LAX, AUS, SLC) seeing any trimming of their permitted flights but it does raise a question in my mind regarding any restrictions as to whether a designated carrier can just cease serving a Beyond-Perimeter route, either temporarily or permanently? If they do, is anything triggered at the DOT regarding non-service of an awarded route of this kind? Could there be temporary changes in place to the rules to allow suspensions due to Covid?


That's a good series of questions. I looked at two DOT orders granting exemptions and don't find a must-serve clause but the DOT may withdraw slot exemptions (if a new service isn't started in a timely fashion, or if a service is suspended). It would be interesting to know whether AS got some assurances the exemption wouldn't be pulled for its 1-month suspension DCA-PDX. I could imagine a certain carrier protesting it, offering to start service within days of gaining the exemption.


Its an interesting question. Its also interesting that this is just under a 30 day suspension. I wonder if that is part of the strategy. It reminds me of DL and their SEA-HND route, serving it at the absolute minimum to meet the letter of the award.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5888
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:14 am

SANFan wrote:
gmcc wrote:
This job posting on alaskaair.jobs might explain the rudderless feel some California residents have been feeling from AS lately. I remember AS having an Regional VP California and my old brain seems to remember she left around the time COVID-19 hit.

I would recommend a.net's SANFan on the condition that it not be all about SAN :lol:

https://alaskaair.jobs/burlingame-ca/re ... job/?vs=10

LOL! Sorry, not if they make me move to Burlingame! Otherwise, I'd be happy to do it but I'm afraid you're right -- the skeds just might end up being a bit SAN-heavy!

I will say that my first official announcement would be the adding of a Lounge at SAN, right near the AS ticket counter to give all the high-Milers a break from the loveliness that is T2E! There's got to be enough room where the former 2-story FIS used to be located!

bb


I would love to see an AS Lounge at SAN.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:22 am

USAirKid wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Since this particular Beyond-Perimeter Exception route is capped at a single daily flight by a single carrier, it is particularly obvious when it doesn't operate. I'm not aware of any of the other such routes to other western cities (including SEA, DEN, PHX, LAX, AUS, SLC) seeing any trimming of their permitted flights but it does raise a question in my mind regarding any restrictions as to whether a designated carrier can just cease serving a Beyond-Perimeter route, either temporarily or permanently? If they do, is anything triggered at the DOT regarding non-service of an awarded route of this kind? Could there be temporary changes in place to the rules to allow suspensions due to Covid?


That's a good series of questions. I looked at two DOT orders granting exemptions and don't find a must-serve clause but the DOT may withdraw slot exemptions (if a new service isn't started in a timely fashion, or if a service is suspended). It would be interesting to know whether AS got some assurances the exemption wouldn't be pulled for its 1-month suspension DCA-PDX. I could imagine a certain carrier protesting it, offering to start service within days of gaining the exemption.


Its an interesting question. Its also interesting that this is just under a 30 day suspension. I wonder if that is part of the strategy. It reminds me of DL and their SEA-HND route, serving it at the absolute minimum to meet the letter of the award.


There has to be more to this story … or at least a “more legitimate” reason like aircraft availability changes. A 29 day suspension, in the grand scheme of things, will barely save AS a dime in comparison to it’s monthly operating costs network wide. Not to mention - traffic is bound to be even further down the toilet in early November compared to mid October.

Only thing I can think of is they are planning on extending the suspension… but are going to slowly roll it forward one month at a time. A random one off 29 day suspension in October makes no sense
 
JBoy
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:11 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:12 pm

I guess this happened a few weeks ago but my families Christmas flight from MSP to SEA was changed from an early AM departure to a PM departure. I was sad to see it go from 2 a day to SEA down to one, and a late flight at that. Here's to hoping that MSP stays strong for AS!
 
User avatar
itripreport
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:27 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
gmcc wrote:
This job posting on alaskaair.jobs might explain the rudderless feel some California residents have been feeling from AS lately. I remember AS having an Regional VP California and my old brain seems to remember she left around the time COVID-19 hit.

I would recommend a.net's SANFan on the condition that it not be all about SAN :lol:

https://alaskaair.jobs/burlingame-ca/re ... job/?vs=10

LOL! Sorry, not if they make me move to Burlingame! Otherwise, I'd be happy to do it but I'm afraid you're right -- the skeds just might end up being a bit SAN-heavy!

I will say that my first official announcement would be the adding of a Lounge at SAN, right near the AS ticket counter to give all the high-Milers a break from the loveliness that is T2E! There's got to be enough room where the former 2-story FIS used to be located!

bb


I would love to see an AS Lounge at SAN.


Here is where we disagree unfortunately, my first order of business would be send Delta to T2E, have them deal with finding space for a sky club there, move Alaska over to T2W, and boom, turn the sky club into an Alaska Lounge, problem solved
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5766
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:56 pm

itripreport wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
LOL! Sorry, not if they make me move to Burlingame! Otherwise, I'd be happy to do it but I'm afraid you're right -- the skeds just might end up being a bit SAN-heavy!

I will say that my first official announcement would be the adding of a Lounge at SAN, right near the AS ticket counter to give all the high-Milers a break from the loveliness that is T2E! There's got to be enough room where the former 2-story FIS used to be located!
bb

I would love to see an AS Lounge at SAN.

Here is where we disagree unfortunately, my first order of business would be send Delta to T2E, have them deal with finding space for a sky club there, move Alaska over to T2W, and boom, turn the sky club into an Alaska Lounge, problem solved

Not a bad idea and I'm sure DL would jump at the chance to relocate to T2E ~LOL.

When the FIS closed down in T2E in June 2018, there was some prime empty space -- 2 stories, and right next to where AS's ticket counter is. I have read recently that the airport is (planning on) allotting that space for various airport ops departments so unfortunately it may too late. I sure wish AS had spoken up a few months after the FIS closed down -- we would prolly have a very nice Alaska lounge operating there now...

bb
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10208
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:03 pm

sxf24 wrote:
We've seen service reductions or suspensions on every beyond-perimeter route at some point in the past 18 months.


Can you cite some DCA beyond-perimeter route suspensions/carrier/duration off the top of your head? Precedent might be a defense for AS.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1690
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:03 pm

Last night i noticed AS is flying the 737 - 900 (?) non - stop GEG - LAX yet for a long time DL was using an Embraer 175 yet just couldn't increase the demand to use an Airbus or Boeing jet. Not sure if DL pulled out of the GEG - LAX market. Have to check. But anyway I am really happy for AS using a larger aircraft on that route.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1690
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:14 pm

AS has converted more options to orders: https://youtu.be/eEOSASRksn8
 
AC4500
Posts: 776
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:32 pm

dc10lover wrote:
Last night i noticed AS is flying the 737 - 900 (?) non - stop GEG - LAX yet for a long time DL was using an Embraer 175 yet just couldn't increase the demand to use an Airbus or Boeing jet. Not sure if DL pulled out of the GEG - LAX market. Have to check. But anyway I am really happy for AS using a larger aircraft on that route.

LAX-GEG is currently using the Airbus A320. It's LAX-SAN that's currently using the Boeing 737-900.

As for Delta, they are still flying LAX-GEG. I thought they had tried to increase it to twice daily a little while back, but it seems like that didn't work out so well for them. I always thought that LAX-GEG was surprisingly underserved, so it's great to see AS taking advantage and using their mainline aircraft on that route.
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5929
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:51 pm

SANFan wrote:
I just noticed that AS has essentially suspended PDX-DCA for the month of October; there is a r/t in the market on 10/1 & 10/3, and then nothing until 10/31. That's what AS shows as of now.

My wondering concerns the nature of the route. PDX-DCA was a hard-fought battle to get, as part of the last DCA Beyond-Perimeter hearings in 2012 involving Congress and the DOT. The route is very restricted (essentially non-changeable) even down to the times it op's due to the conditions at Reagan, and I'm curious if AS can indeed simply suspend the route entirely for almost a whole month?

Since this particular Beyond-Perimeter Exception route is capped at a single daily flight by a single carrier, it is particularly obvious when it doesn't operate. I'm not aware of any of the other such routes to other western cities (including SEA, DEN, PHX, LAX, AUS, SLC) seeing any trimming of their permitted flights but it does raise a question in my mind regarding any restrictions as to whether a designated carrier can just cease serving a Beyond-Perimeter route, either temporarily or permanently? If they do, is anything triggered at the DOT regarding non-service of an awarded route of this kind? Could there be temporary changes in place to the rules to allow suspensions due to Covid?

I do see that the PDX-route resumes daily service in November (as of now) but that could certainly change if AS doesn't see the traffic in the market..

Does anyone out there have any information or thoughts on this situation? Since I had a pony in this race, I consider myself pretty familiar with many of the particular facets of the 2012 Beyond-Perimeter case but don't know about temporary suspensions of the awarded routes. I don't believe I've ever seen it happen before.

bb


Hey B-.

PDX-DCA was suspended at the onset of Covid & it's been inactive for times during the last 18 months. at some point the only mainline flight from Portland to Seattle was about 6 AS flights. This is about the slowest time of the year, the staffing shortages. AS would in a day, have that flight back in the air, if they were ever faced with a use or lose situation. AS would not allow any carrier to get that gem.

I admit up front that I have no privy info here, but routes are often awarded PDX/SEA but I know this is not one of them. But I bet you AS could argue that the best service of this route would be via SEA & even if the flight was a one-stop in SEA, they could change it in time. But I know this is a valuable route to AAG & it won't become at risk of loss.
 
pdxav8r
Posts: 271
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:15 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:47 am

RWA380 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I just noticed that AS has essentially suspended PDX-DCA for the month of October; there is a r/t in the market on 10/1 & 10/3, and then nothing until 10/31. That's what AS shows as of now.

My wondering concerns the nature of the route. PDX-DCA was a hard-fought battle to get, as part of the last DCA Beyond-Perimeter hearings in 2012 involving Congress and the DOT. The route is very restricted (essentially non-changeable) even down to the times it op's due to the conditions at Reagan, and I'm curious if AS can indeed simply suspend the route entirely for almost a whole month?

Since this particular Beyond-Perimeter Exception route is capped at a single daily flight by a single carrier, it is particularly obvious when it doesn't operate. I'm not aware of any of the other such routes to other western cities (including SEA, DEN, PHX, LAX, AUS, SLC) seeing any trimming of their permitted flights but it does raise a question in my mind regarding any restrictions as to whether a designated carrier can just cease serving a Beyond-Perimeter route, either temporarily or permanently? If they do, is anything triggered at the DOT regarding non-service of an awarded route of this kind? Could there be temporary changes in place to the rules to allow suspensions due to Covid?

I do see that the PDX-route resumes daily service in November (as of now) but that could certainly change if AS doesn't see the traffic in the market..

Does anyone out there have any information or thoughts on this situation? Since I had a pony in this race, I consider myself pretty familiar with many of the particular facets of the 2012 Beyond-Perimeter case but don't know about temporary suspensions of the awarded routes. I don't believe I've ever seen it happen before.

bb


Hey B-.

PDX-DCA was suspended at the onset of Covid & it's been inactive for times during the last 18 months. at some point the only mainline flight from Portland to Seattle was about 6 AS flights. This is about the slowest time of the year, the staffing shortages. AS would in a day, have that flight back in the air, if they were ever faced with a use or lose situation. AS would not allow any carrier to get that gem.

I admit up front that I have no privy info here, but routes are often awarded PDX/SEA but I know this is not one of them. But I bet you AS could argue that the best service of this route would be via SEA & even if the flight was a one-stop in SEA, they could change it in time. But I know this is a valuable route to AAG & it won't become at risk of loss.


C’mon RWA…you bit. Don’t bite.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5766
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:09 pm

pdxav8r wrote:
C’mon RWA…you bit. Don’t bite.

??????
Would you mind explaining exactly what my friend RWA' "bit on"?

bb
 
gmcc
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:32 pm

AS released a 8k on sept 2, with an updated expected fleet count June 2021 to December 31 2023. Mainline goes from 202 today to 251 or around 24 percent increase. Regional goes from 94 to 111 or around 18 percent increase.
https://investor.alaskaair.com/node/31956/html
While all of this is subject to change it seems as if they are planning for some expansion which I don't think can all be funneled through SEA.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3511
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Fleet/Network Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:38 pm

gmcc wrote:
AS released a 8k on sept 2, with an updated expected fleet count June 2021 to December 31 2023. Mainline goes from 202 today to 251 or around 24 percent increase. Regional goes from 94 to 111 or around 18 percent increase.
https://investor.alaskaair.com/node/31956/html
While all of this is subject to change it seems as if they are planning for some expansion which I don't think can all be funneled through SEA.


Thanks for sharing. 75 737 MAX 9s by end of 2023 almost as large as the 739ER fleet (79)! Interestingly, 2023 is only a net increase of 8 mainline aircraft (although many more seats).

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