jbs2886 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

Thanks for sharing. 75 737 MAX 9s by end of 2023 almost as large as the 739ER fleet (79)! Interestingly, 2023 is only a net increase of 8 mainline aircraft (although many more seats).

2023 itself shows an increase of 8 mainline aircraft. There is a net increase of 49 mainline aircraft from June 30, 2021 though the end of 2023. That’s a lot. Like others, I wonder where AS will expand sevice.

Yea, 2022 will be a massive increase. Will be interesting if AS exercises more options for 2023 or tries to digest the 2022 growth for the next year.

I had previously mentioned the possibility of AS adding SEA-CLE/BDL/JAX/ORF nonstop service with CLE, BDL, JAX, and ORF being four of the top remaining domestic destinations traveled to from SEA that don't currently have any nonstop service from SEA.

While AS does not need to serve CLT on its own metal due to (a) the AA-AS partnership, (b) AA already operating CLT-LAX/PDX/SAN/SFO/SEA nonstop service, and (c) AA already offering connections onto AS flights out of SEA from its CLT-SEA nonstop flights, AS adding SEA-CLT nonstop service on its own metal might be a possibility with CLT being one of the top destinations that isn't served by AS along with AS having some FF's in Greater Seattle (and other markets in the Pacific Northwest) who prefer to fly on AS-operated flights.

If AS does add SEA-CLT nonstop service, AS would be able to connect passengers onto AA flights out of CLT to destinations on the East Coast, Bermuda, and the Caribbean.

There are also some business ties between Greater Seattle and Greater Charlotte to support CLT-SEA nonstop service on AS such as the significant Bank of America presence in Greater Seattle along with Boeing supplier Collins Aerospace having its headquarters in Charlotte.

MIflyer12 wrote:

gmcc wrote:

Another use for the 321 fleet is getting a full load out of tough transcon airports. Management has stated on earnings calls that 321 can do stuff out of DCA that others planes in their fleet can't so that may be their fate, DCA-West coast.

It's pathological to keep a narrowbody type of 10 aircraft.

Maybe so. But how many 737-700s did DL keep on property all those years for a select few markets?

I agree it would be odd to keep 10 321s in a fleet of Boeings, but AS hasn't always been devoted to a single type. It wasn't that long ago they were flying MD-80s with the 737s.

oosnowrat wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

gmcc wrote:

Another use for the 321 fleet is getting a full load out of tough transcon airports. Management has stated on earnings calls that 321 can do stuff out of DCA that others planes in their fleet can't so that may be their fate, DCA-West coast.

It's pathological to keep a narrowbody type of 10 aircraft.

Maybe so. But how many 737-700s did DL keep on property all those years for a select few markets?

I agree it would be odd to keep 10 321s in a fleet of Boeings, but AS hasn't always been devoted to a single type. It wasn't that long ago they were flying MD-80s with the 737s.

You wouldn't get an argument from me that keeping 10 A321 around is not smart, all I meant to say was that until AS finds a new home for them, via sub lease or lease return, they can be used to get max loads out of DCA that a 900 can't but a 9 probably will be able to once they get enough on property.

USAirKid wrote:

Is this one standard on the inside? I know AS has done special things in the cabin with the salmon plane…

No different inside. Or at least the earlier version of the plane was. Can't imagine they'll do anything different now.

The only one that was different inside was the Starliner. That one was pretty cool with all the photos on the bins. If I recall, the Salmon plane had a plaque inside, as did the Disneyland one with Minnie on the front door (is that one even flying yet?).

oosnowrat wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

gmcc wrote:

Another use for the 321 fleet is getting a full load out of tough transcon airports. Management has stated on earnings calls that 321 can do stuff out of DCA that others planes in their fleet can't so that may be their fate, DCA-West coast.

It's pathological to keep a narrowbody type of 10 aircraft.

Maybe so. But how many 737-700s did DL keep on property all those years for a select few markets?

I agree it would be odd to keep 10 321s in a fleet of Boeings, but AS hasn't always been devoted to a single type. It wasn't that long ago they were flying MD-80s with the 737s.

Back in the day of ordering 734's and MD-80's, AS had an order for MD-90's...that would have been cool.

"I wonder where AS will expand sevice"

AS still wants a larger piece of the pie within the State of California. It wouldn't of happened but instead of Southwest Airlines having a hub in Denver, I really wish it was Alaska Airlines instead.

sxf24 wrote:

spinkid wrote:

In my memory at least, he is one of the few living celebrities to have his own Logo Jet. The only one that comes to mind right now is Taylor Swift with Air Asia.................Russell Wilson has a great reputation, but imagine the nightmare that would unfold if some huge negative PR scandal involving him was in the headlines.

Kevin Durant also had an AS logo jet.

Yes...that is true!

32andBelow wrote:

Lootess wrote:

spinkid wrote:

In my memory at least, he is one of the few living celebrities to have his own Logo Jet. The only one that comes to mind right now is Taylor Swift with Air Asia.................Russell Wilson has a great reputation, but imagine the nightmare that would unfold if some huge negative PR scandal involving him was in the headlines.

Alaska has to live with Russell Wilson as their only connection to the Seahawks, as Delta is the official airline of the Seahawks.

Alaska could have bought the naming rights to that stadium. But it might have been too spendy for them.

AS already has an arena with their name on it at the UW.

chrisair wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

Is this one standard on the inside? I know AS has done special things in the cabin with the salmon plane…

No different inside. Or at least the earlier version of the plane was. Can't imagine they'll do anything different now.

The only one that was different inside was the Starliner. That one was pretty cool with all the photos on the bins. If I recall, the Salmon plane had a plaque inside, as did the Disneyland one with Minnie on the front door (is that one even flying yet?).

The old Cupid -400 had Disney art on the stowbins. The three "Honor" aircraft have a big plaque inside the door on one of the galleys. Lastly, the first Russell Wilson airplane had a sticker outside the door greeting passengers.

I don't know if the Salmon-Thirty-Salmon has anything in them.

dc10lover wrote:

"I wonder where AS will expand sevice"

AS still wants a larger piece of the pie within the State of California. It wouldn't of happened but instead of Southwest Airlines having a hub in Denver, I really wish it was Alaska Airlines instead.

I don't think you'll see AS opening another hub outside of the west coast (but that's just my opinion). I can see AS add more point-to-point flying up and down the west coast.

I would like to see AS open new cities like ACV, SCK and BFL. Maybe we'll see additional service out of GEG, BOI and PDX. I guess I'm a little biased to the PNW.

Lastly, it wouldn't surprise me if AS adds another east/west city like CLE, CLT or GSO.

oosnowrat wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

gmcc wrote:

Another use for the 321 fleet is getting a full load out of tough transcon airports. Management has stated on earnings calls that 321 can do stuff out of DCA that others planes in their fleet can't so that may be their fate, DCA-West coast.

It's pathological to keep a narrowbody type of 10 aircraft.

Maybe so. But how many 737-700s did DL keep on property all those years for a select few markets?

I agree it would be odd to keep 10 321s in a fleet of Boeings, but AS hasn't always been devoted to a single type. It wasn't that long ago they were flying MD-80s with the 737s.

Not a good comparison. The 737-700 has commonality with DL’s 737-800s and -900s. The A321 does not have commonality with AS’s 737 fleet.

wedgetail737 wrote:

dc10lover wrote:

"I wonder where AS will expand sevice"

AS still wants a larger piece of the pie within the State of California. It wouldn't of happened but instead of Southwest Airlines having a hub in Denver, I really wish it was Alaska Airlines instead.

I don't think you'll see AS opening another hub outside of the west coast (but that's just my opinion). I can see AS add more point-to-point flying up and down the west coast.

I would like to see AS open new cities like ACV, SCK and BFL. Maybe we'll see additional service out of GEG, BOI and PDX. I guess I'm a little biased to the PNW.

Lastly, it wouldn't surprise me if AS adds another east/west city like CLE, CLT or GSO.

The thing is, AS might not be able to increase CA market share without offering convenient connections... you can't just route everyone thru SEA and expect consumers to pay for the extra 4+ hours it'll take instead of connecting over SFO or LAX. This is exactly where SFO and LAX should come into play for AS. AS needs to add service to those smaller CA destinations - but they need to be flying intra-CA routes to hubs like SFO/LAX in order to take share away from other players, namely UA.

They don't seem to be doing that – so far they have only been adding markets like SBP, RDD, MRY, SBA, etc from Seattle – not the Bay Area nor Los Angeles – making connections inconvenient at best (unless you're Alaska-bound), and impossible at worst. I don't know much about AS at LAX, but how do they plan on filling those new CUN/ZIH/MZT/LTO etc flights from SFO on top of existing markets that have increased competition, without having the regional connectivity that major players like UA have? They'll never be able to achieve WN-type dominance simply because WN dominates those once-neglected airports now... the best thing to do is use more E-jets for the actual regional flights, and then put mainline on the flights that really should deserve it (why fly an E175 from SFO to SLC??), which will allow upgauging across the board and increased connectivity, driving pax numbers. It will be very hard to achieve more growth if they rely only on O&D.... P2P north-south PNW-focused routes will only end up generating so much.

jplatts wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

2023 itself shows an increase of 8 mainline aircraft. There is a net increase of 49 mainline aircraft from June 30, 2021 though the end of 2023. That’s a lot. Like others, I wonder where AS will expand sevice.

Yea, 2022 will be a massive increase. Will be interesting if AS exercises more options for 2023 or tries to digest the 2022 growth for the next year.

I had previously mentioned the possibility of AS adding SEA-CLE/BDL/JAX/ORF nonstop service with CLE, BDL, JAX, and ORF being four of the top remaining domestic destinations traveled to from SEA that don't currently have any nonstop service from SEA.

While AS does not need to serve CLT on its own metal due to (a) the AA-AS partnership, (b) AA already operating CLT-LAX/PDX/SAN/SFO/SEA nonstop service, and (c) AA already offering connections onto AS flights out of SEA from its CLT-SEA nonstop flights, AS adding SEA-CLT nonstop service on its own metal might be a possibility with CLT being one of the top destinations that isn't served by AS along with AS having some FF's in Greater Seattle (and other markets in the Pacific Northwest) who prefer to fly on AS-operated flights.

If AS does add SEA-CLT nonstop service, AS would be able to connect passengers onto AA flights out of CLT to destinations on the East Coast, Bermuda, and the Caribbean.

There are also some business ties between Greater Seattle and Greater Charlotte to support CLT-SEA nonstop service on AS such as the significant Bank of America presence in Greater Seattle along with Boeing supplier Collins Aerospace having its headquarters in Charlotte.

What, probably about 5 Boeing people a year fly to CLT to visit Collin’s headquarters? If that. Occasionally Boeing people fly to CID to visit Collins, but again maybe a handful a month.

BoeingGuy wrote:

jplatts wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

Yea, 2022 will be a massive increase. Will be interesting if AS exercises more options for 2023 or tries to digest the 2022 growth for the next year.

I had previously mentioned the possibility of AS adding SEA-CLE/BDL/JAX/ORF nonstop service with CLE, BDL, JAX, and ORF being four of the top remaining domestic destinations traveled to from SEA that don't currently have any nonstop service from SEA.

While AS does not need to serve CLT on its own metal due to (a) the AA-AS partnership, (b) AA already operating CLT-LAX/PDX/SAN/SFO/SEA nonstop service, and (c) AA already offering connections onto AS flights out of SEA from its CLT-SEA nonstop flights, AS adding SEA-CLT nonstop service on its own metal might be a possibility with CLT being one of the top destinations that isn't served by AS along with AS having some FF's in Greater Seattle (and other markets in the Pacific Northwest) who prefer to fly on AS-operated flights.

If AS does add SEA-CLT nonstop service, AS would be able to connect passengers onto AA flights out of CLT to destinations on the East Coast, Bermuda, and the Caribbean.

There are also some business ties between Greater Seattle and Greater Charlotte to support CLT-SEA nonstop service on AS such as the significant Bank of America presence in Greater Seattle along with Boeing supplier Collins Aerospace having its headquarters in Charlotte.

What, probably about 5 Boeing people a year fly to CLT to visit Collin’s headquarters? If that. Occasionally Boeing people fly to CID to visit Collins, but again maybe a handful a month.

To me, oddly, it seems CLE is the obvious add. It’s a pretty big outlier in having many PDEWs… more than SEA-MKE, PIT, CMH, and TUS for example (2019 Q3 data)

CLT also seems obvious based on AA. Yes, it does seem redundant, but given the partnership and codeshares, also seems somewhat beneficial. Maybe AA takes away a daily flight and AS takes its place.

Beyond those - I don’t see any adds for at least 2-3 years until AS builds some fleet slack. It seems Southbound flying (I.e. BZE) has been a bigger priority of late

wedgetail737 wrote:

dc10lover wrote:

"I wonder where AS will expand sevice"

AS still wants a larger piece of the pie within the State of California. It wouldn't of happened but instead of Southwest Airlines having a hub in Denver, I really wish it was Alaska Airlines instead.

I don't think you'll see AS opening another hub outside of the west coast (but that's just my opinion). I can see AS add more point-to-point flying up and down the west coast.

I would like to see AS open new cities like ACV, SCK and BFL. Maybe we'll see additional service out of GEG, BOI and PDX. I guess I'm a little biased to the PNW.

Lastly, it wouldn't surprise me if AS adds another east/west city like CLE, CLT or GSO.

I’m with you on seeing more service out of GEG,BOI and PDX

joeblow10 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

jplatts wrote:

I had previously mentioned the possibility of AS adding SEA-CLE/BDL/JAX/ORF nonstop service with CLE, BDL, JAX, and ORF being four of the top remaining domestic destinations traveled to from SEA that don't currently have any nonstop service from SEA.

While AS does not need to serve CLT on its own metal due to (a) the AA-AS partnership, (b) AA already operating CLT-LAX/PDX/SAN/SFO/SEA nonstop service, and (c) AA already offering connections onto AS flights out of SEA from its CLT-SEA nonstop flights, AS adding SEA-CLT nonstop service on its own metal might be a possibility with CLT being one of the top destinations that isn't served by AS along with AS having some FF's in Greater Seattle (and other markets in the Pacific Northwest) who prefer to fly on AS-operated flights.

If AS does add SEA-CLT nonstop service, AS would be able to connect passengers onto AA flights out of CLT to destinations on the East Coast, Bermuda, and the Caribbean.

There are also some business ties between Greater Seattle and Greater Charlotte to support CLT-SEA nonstop service on AS such as the significant Bank of America presence in Greater Seattle along with Boeing supplier Collins Aerospace having its headquarters in Charlotte.

What, probably about 5 Boeing people a year fly to CLT to visit Collin’s headquarters? If that. Occasionally Boeing people fly to CID to visit Collins, but again maybe a handful a month.

To me, oddly, it seems CLE is the obvious add. It’s a pretty big outlier in having many PDEWs… more than SEA-MKE, PIT, CMH, and TUS for example (2019 Q3 data)

CLT also seems obvious based on AA. Yes, it does seem redundant, but given the partnership and codeshares, also seems somewhat beneficial. Maybe AA takes away a daily flight and AS takes its place.

Beyond those - I don’t see any adds for at least 2-3 years until AS builds some fleet slack. It seems Southbound flying (I.e. BZE) has been a bigger priority of late

BDL and JAX can’t even reliably support LAX service, let alone SEA. Each has come and gone several times from LAX, so not sure why people think that AS should jump in those markets from SEA. I think WN does SAN-ORF presumably due to the Navy connections. Again, hard to see how SEA-ORF is going to work.

Different topic: AS needs to put a 73G on the JAC-SEA route instead of the E175. I was on that flight yesterday. We had to stop in BOI to refuel due to performance issues on departure from JAC - it’s a 6300 ft runway at 7000 feet elevation. Either that or off-load some people. The very friendly AS station manager said that’s a common occurrence (she checked us in too and is a hoot - an asset to AS’s customer service IMHO). With terrain on both sides of the valley I’m guessing the engine fail SID is interesting.

AA can send pmAA A319s from JAC to CLT and BOS, but AS can’t reliably get to SEA with a full load? Something is wrong with that picture.

BoeingGuy wrote:

joeblow10 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

What, probably about 5 Boeing people a year fly to CLT to visit Collin’s headquarters? If that. Occasionally Boeing people fly to CID to visit Collins, but again maybe a handful a month.

To me, oddly, it seems CLE is the obvious add. It’s a pretty big outlier in having many PDEWs… more than SEA-MKE, PIT, CMH, and TUS for example (2019 Q3 data)

CLT also seems obvious based on AA. Yes, it does seem redundant, but given the partnership and codeshares, also seems somewhat beneficial. Maybe AA takes away a daily flight and AS takes its place.

Beyond those - I don’t see any adds for at least 2-3 years until AS builds some fleet slack. It seems Southbound flying (I.e. BZE) has been a bigger priority of late

BDL and JAX can’t even reliably support LAX service, let alone SEA. Each has come and gone several times from LAX, so not sure why people think that AS should jump in those markets from SEA. I think WN does SAN-ORF presumably due to the Navy connections. Again, hard to see how SEA-ORF is going to work.

I’m not saying I agree AS will add those routes, but SEA is an entirely different animal than LAX. Specifically LAX isn’t a strong connecting hub for any carrier - in sharp contrast to what AS can do through SEA. What SEA lacks in O&D it can more than make up in connections.

wedgetail737 wrote:

chrisair wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

Is this one standard on the inside? I know AS has done special things in the cabin with the salmon plane…

No different inside. Or at least the earlier version of the plane was. Can't imagine they'll do anything different now.

The only one that was different inside was the Starliner. That one was pretty cool with all the photos on the bins. If I recall, the Salmon plane had a plaque inside, as did the Disneyland one with Minnie on the front door (is that one even flying yet?).

The old Cupid -400 had Disney art on the stowbins. The three "Honor" aircraft have a big plaque inside the door on one of the galleys. Lastly, the first Russell Wilson airplane had a sticker outside the door greeting passengers.

I don't know if the Salmon-Thirty-Salmon has anything in them.

When I flew on the Salmon-Thirty-Salmon years ago it had salmon decal art on the overhead bins.

MIflyer12 wrote:

gmcc wrote:

Another use for the 321 fleet is getting a full load out of tough transcon airports. Management has stated on earnings calls that 321 can do stuff out of DCA that others planes in their fleet can't so that may be their fate, DCA-West coast.

Come on.. how many tough transcon airports are there? They don't fly east of ORD from SNA, and not even 1000 sm from BUR. They don't fly from LGA at all. You don't keep a separate type for DCA-SEA/PDX/SFO/LAX... not at the (restricted) frequencies AS flies them. It's pathological to keep a narrowbody type of 10 aircraft. AS knows this. They didn't even want a fleet of 73 in the A320 family!

I wonder how much AS can cozy up to AA on maintenance for the A321s… perhaps that’d change the calculation?

BoeingGuy wrote:

joeblow10 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

What, probably about 5 Boeing people a year fly to CLT to visit Collin’s headquarters? If that. Occasionally Boeing people fly to CID to visit Collins, but again maybe a handful a month.

To me, oddly, it seems CLE is the obvious add. It’s a pretty big outlier in having many PDEWs… more than SEA-MKE, PIT, CMH, and TUS for example (2019 Q3 data)

CLT also seems obvious based on AA. Yes, it does seem redundant, but given the partnership and codeshares, also seems somewhat beneficial. Maybe AA takes away a daily flight and AS takes its place.

Beyond those - I don’t see any adds for at least 2-3 years until AS builds some fleet slack. It seems Southbound flying (I.e. BZE) has been a bigger priority of late

BDL and JAX can’t even reliably support LAX service, let alone SEA. Each has come and gone several times from LAX, so not sure why people think that AS should jump in those markets from SEA. I think WN does SAN-ORF presumably due to the Navy connections. Again, hard to see how SEA-ORF is going to work.

Different topic: AS needs to put a 73G on the JAC-SEA route instead of the E175. I was on that flight yesterday. We had to stop in BOI to refuel due to performance issues on departure from JAC - it’s a 6300 ft runway at 7000 feet elevation. Either that or off-load some people. The very friendly AS station manager said that’s a common occurrence (she checked us in too and is a hoot - an asset to AS’s customer service IMHO). With terrain on both sides of the valley I’m guessing the engine fail SID is interesting.

AA can send pmAA A319s from JAC to CLT and BOS, but AS can’t reliably get to SEA with a full load? Something is wrong with that picture.

That’s… interesting. OO flies 175s into JAC quite a bit, granted - DEN and SLC aren’t quite as far as SEA, but LAX and SFO sure are

AS has added the MAX9 to a new route in Dec: SAN-HNL. They've never been able to fly the 739 from SAN to Hawaii (even though they sometimes fly it w/b INTO SAN) due to runway and terrain conditions. Now they can get the increased capacity of the MAX (I assume) departing w/b to the Islands. (I'm hoping they don't loose any pax or other payload for those long-haul departures heading west.)

AS was flirting with 2x daily flights between SAN and HNL (for the first time) earlier this year so there apparently is plenty of traffic, but they did not do so perhaps due to begged-for limits by the State on pax being flown to HI? But now they can hopefully maximize the number of pax carried by a single flight. Of course AS has the additional competition from WN in the SAN-HI markets now.

Unfortunately it must be noted that AS has dropped both SAN & SJC to LIH for the 1st half of Dec. The route resumes on the 16th of Dec to both cities. Covid-related issues I assume...

BTW, it appears that AS mostly re-worked the Dec 16-Jan 3 (Holiday) skeds last night (Saturday) although I'm still searching to see what else might have been changed... So far lots of slight freq trims and some minor changes.

bb

Lootess wrote:

spinkid wrote:

In my memory at least, he is one of the few living celebrities to have his own Logo Jet. The only one that comes to mind right now is Taylor Swift with Air Asia.................Russell Wilson has a great reputation, but imagine the nightmare that would unfold if some huge negative PR scandal involving him was in the headlines.

Alaska has to live with Russell Wilson as their only connection to the Seahawks, as Delta is the official airline of the Seahawks.

Russell Wilson is the most recognizable face of the Seahawks, and has been one of the better NFL players in general. Who cares if Delta is the "official airline of the Seahawks" - Alaska has managed to cut Delta off at the knees here by their association with the most recognizable and popular player on the team. Ask any Seattlite who they think is the actual official airline and the majority would probably say Alaska because of the relentless advertising during football season using Russell Wilson. Delta wasted their money.

727231 wrote:

Is it just me or does that photo with Russell in it make the 737 look like the nose gear is collapsed?

Yes, odd illusion

SANFan wrote:

AS has added the MAX9 to a new route in Dec: SAN-HNL. They've never been able to fly the 739 from SAN to Hawaii (even though they sometimes fly it w/b INTO SAN) due to runway and terrain conditions. Now they can get the increased capacity of the MAX (I assume) departing w/b to the Islands. (I'm hoping they don't loose any pax or other payload for those long-haul departures heading west.)

AS was flirting with 2x daily flights between SAN and HNL (for the first time) earlier this year so there apparently is plenty of traffic, but they did not do so perhaps due to begged-for limits by the State on pax being flown to HI? But now they can hopefully maximize the number of pax carried by a single flight. Of course AS has the additional competition from WN in the SAN-HI markets now.

Unfortunately it must be noted that AS has dropped both SAN & SJC to LIH for the 1st half of Dec. The route resumes on the 16th of Dec to both cities. Covid-related issues I assume...

BTW, it appears that AS mostly re-worked the Dec 16-Jan 3 (Holiday) skeds last night (Saturday) although I'm still searching to see what else might have been changed... So far lots of slight freq trims and some minor changes.

bb

I don't if they updated their schedule, but it seems like PAE-SAN is a casualty.

BoeingGuy wrote:

joeblow10 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

What, probably about 5 Boeing people a year fly to CLT to visit Collin’s headquarters? If that. Occasionally Boeing people fly to CID to visit Collins, but again maybe a handful a month.

To me, oddly, it seems CLE is the obvious add. It’s a pretty big outlier in having many PDEWs… more than SEA-MKE, PIT, CMH, and TUS for example (2019 Q3 data)

CLT also seems obvious based on AA. Yes, it does seem redundant, but given the partnership and codeshares, also seems somewhat beneficial. Maybe AA takes away a daily flight and AS takes its place.

Beyond those - I don’t see any adds for at least 2-3 years until AS builds some fleet slack. It seems Southbound flying (I.e. BZE) has been a bigger priority of late

BDL and JAX can’t even reliably support LAX service, let alone SEA. Each has come and gone several times from LAX, so not sure why people think that AS should jump in those markets from SEA. I think WN does SAN-ORF presumably due to the Navy connections. Again, hard to see how SEA-ORF is going to work.

Different topic: AS needs to put a 73G on the JAC-SEA route instead of the E175. I was on that flight yesterday. We had to stop in BOI to refuel due to performance issues on departure from JAC - it’s a 6300 ft runway at 7000 feet elevation. Either that or off-load some people. The very friendly AS station manager said that’s a common occurrence (she checked us in too and is a hoot - an asset to AS’s customer service IMHO). With terrain on both sides of the valley I’m guessing the engine fail SID is interesting.

AA can send pmAA A319s from JAC to CLT and BOS, but AS can’t reliably get to SEA with a full load? Something is wrong with that picture.

CLE will happen eventually. I think JAX is probably a long-shot, but I wouldn't.sleep on ORF. Plenty of navy traffic between Chesapeake and Puget Sound.

wedgetail737 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

AS has added the MAX9 to a new route in Dec: SAN-HNL. They've never been able to fly the 739 from SAN to Hawaii (even though they sometimes fly it w/b INTO SAN) due to runway and terrain conditions. Now they can get the increased capacity of the MAX (I assume) departing w/b to the Islands. (I'm hoping they don't loose any pax or other payload for those long-haul departures heading west.)

AS was flirting with 2x daily flights between SAN and HNL (for the first time) earlier this year so there apparently is plenty of traffic, but they did not do so perhaps due to begged-for limits by the State on pax being flown to HI? But now they can hopefully maximize the number of pax carried by a single flight. Of course AS has the additional competition from WN in the SAN-HI markets now.

Unfortunately it must be noted that AS has dropped both SAN & SJC to LIH for the 1st half of Dec. The route resumes on the 16th of Dec to both cities. Covid-related issues I assume...

BTW, it appears that AS mostly re-worked the Dec 16-Jan 3 (Holiday) skeds last night (Saturday) although I'm still searching to see what else might have been changed... So far lots of slight freq trims and some minor changes.

bb

I don't if they updated their schedule, but it seems like PAE-SAN is a casualty.

Yep. I was booked on PAE-SAN on Dec. 27 and returning on Jan. 4. First AS changed from 2x to 1x. Then canned it all together. This isn’t new. It happened at least two weeks ago.

I posted criticism of how AS is handling PAE and got blasted by a few other A.net participants. I realize things are volatile and unpredictable right now, but I do question how sincere AS is about maintaining service at PAE. They have been continuously hacking away and pushing out resumptions of routes at PAE so much, I do wonder if they really ever really planned to operate some of these flights in the first place.

AS cut JAC-SEA from daily to 2x very recently and caused some travelers problems too. I know AS is trying their best, but it is frustrating when you have rental car and hotels booked at certain times and then you feel like it’s, “just kidding, sorry, we never really intended to operate that flight.”

SANFan wrote:

AS has added the MAX9 to a new route in Dec: SAN-HNL. They've never been able to fly the 739 from SAN to Hawaii (even though they sometimes fly it w/b INTO SAN) due to runway and terrain conditions. Now they can get the increased capacity of the MAX (I assume) departing w/b to the Islands. (I'm hoping they don't loose any pax or other payload for those long-haul departures heading west.)

AS was flirting with 2x daily flights between SAN and HNL (for the first time) earlier this year so there apparently is plenty of traffic, but they did not do so perhaps due to begged-for limits by the State on pax being flown to HI? But now they can hopefully maximize the number of pax carried by a single flight. Of course AS has the additional competition from WN in the SAN-HI markets now.

Unfortunately it must be noted that AS has dropped both SAN & SJC to LIH for the 1st half of Dec. The route resumes on the 16th of Dec to both cities. Covid-related issues I assume...

BTW, it appears that AS mostly re-worked the Dec 16-Jan 3 (Holiday) skeds last night (Saturday) although I'm still searching to see what else might have been changed... So far lots of slight freq trims and some minor changes.

bb

Anyone know if/when AS will resume SFO-KOA/LIH? I understand that (for some reason) those were pre-pandemic cuts, but it's odd to see them plan to fly low-frequency Mexico adds (ZIH/LTO/MZT/CUN) from SFO but not some core west coast leisure routes.

+ what about SFO-LIR/SJO & BZE? The Caribbean/Central America have weathered the pandemic well. I myself tried to book direct to LIR for this winter but UA's direct option from SFO was far too $$$ and hotel availability was tough to find.

tphuang wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

gmcc wrote:

Another use for the 321 fleet is getting a full load out of tough transcon airports. Management has stated on earnings calls that 321 can do stuff out of DCA that others planes in their fleet can't so that may be their fate, DCA-West coast.

Come on.. how many tough transcon airports are there? They don't fly east of ORD from SNA, and not even 1000 sm from BUR. They don't fly from LGA at all. You don't keep a separate type for DCA-SEA/PDX/SFO/LAX... not at the (restricted) frequencies AS flies them. It's pathological to keep a narrowbody type of 10 aircraft. AS knows this. They didn't even want a fleet of 73 in the A320 family!

They will get rid of those a321neo at about the same time as the a320 classic are removed from service. It's absolutely foolish to keep around 10 a321neo for 3 years by itself. And then as will probably have 5 737 bases in the future (sea, pdx, anc, lax and San). Of course, people will probably tell me I am wrong now and that as will keep a321neo for a long time so they can have a lie flat fleet.

SO if AS retires the 321's what will happen to DCA transcon routes going back to the 738's? How much longer before they fully retire?? that is all DCA gets now is 321? Very few 320;s.

b777900 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Come on.. how many tough transcon airports are there? They don't fly east of ORD from SNA, and not even 1000 sm from BUR. They don't fly from LGA at all. You don't keep a separate type for DCA-SEA/PDX/SFO/LAX... not at the (restricted) frequencies AS flies them. It's pathological to keep a narrowbody type of 10 aircraft. AS knows this. They didn't even want a fleet of 73 in the A320 family!

They will get rid of those a321neo at about the same time as the a320 classic are removed from service. It's absolutely foolish to keep around 10 a321neo for 3 years by itself. And then as will probably have 5 737 bases in the future (sea, pdx, anc, lax and San). Of course, people will probably tell me I am wrong now and that as will keep a321neo for a long time so they can have a lie flat fleet.

SO if AS retires the 321's what will happen to DCA transcon routes going back to the 738's? How much longer before they fully retire?? that is all DCA gets now is 321? Very few 320;s.

AS could go back to 738's on their DCA routes. But why couldn't a MAX-9 work at DCA?

BoeingGuy wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

AS has added the MAX9 to a new route in Dec: SAN-HNL. They've never been able to fly the 739 from SAN to Hawaii (even though they sometimes fly it w/b INTO SAN) due to runway and terrain conditions. Now they can get the increased capacity of the MAX (I assume) departing w/b to the Islands. (I'm hoping they don't loose any pax or other payload for those long-haul departures heading west.)

AS was flirting with 2x daily flights between SAN and HNL (for the first time) earlier this year so there apparently is plenty of traffic, but they did not do so perhaps due to begged-for limits by the State on pax being flown to HI? But now they can hopefully maximize the number of pax carried by a single flight. Of course AS has the additional competition from WN in the SAN-HI markets now.

Unfortunately it must be noted that AS has dropped both SAN & SJC to LIH for the 1st half of Dec. The route resumes on the 16th of Dec to both cities. Covid-related issues I assume...

BTW, it appears that AS mostly re-worked the Dec 16-Jan 3 (Holiday) skeds last night (Saturday) although I'm still searching to see what else might have been changed... So far lots of slight freq trims and some minor changes.

bb

I don't if they updated their schedule, but it seems like PAE-SAN is a casualty.

Yep. I was booked on PAE-SAN on Dec. 27 and returning on Jan. 4. First AS changed from 2x to 1x. Then canned it all together. This isn’t new. It happened at least two weeks ago.

I posted criticism of how AS is handling PAE and got blasted by a few other A.net participants. I realize things are volatile and unpredictable right now, but I do question how sincere AS is about maintaining service at PAE. They have been continuously hacking away and pushing out resumptions of routes at PAE so much, I do wonder if they really ever really planned to operate some of these flights in the first place.

AS cut JAC-SEA from daily to 2x very recently and caused some travelers problems too. I know AS is trying their best, but it is frustrating when you have rental car and hotels booked at certain times and then you feel like it’s, “just kidding, sorry, we never really intended to operate that flight.”

Yeah...I'm a little surprised that AS abandoned PAE to the Bay Area AND the L.A. Basin, including SAN. I see they fly to PSP, but the prices are sky-high...like they are intentionally pricing themselves out of the market. I have hope that AS will regenerate PAE next Spring/Summer.

sfojvjets wrote:

SANFan wrote:

AS has added the MAX9 to a new route in Dec: SAN-HNL. They've never been able to fly the 739 from SAN to Hawaii (even though they sometimes fly it w/b INTO SAN) due to runway and terrain conditions. Now they can get the increased capacity of the MAX (I assume) departing w/b to the Islands. (I'm hoping they don't loose any pax or other payload for those long-haul departures heading west.)

AS was flirting with 2x daily flights between SAN and HNL (for the first time) earlier this year so there apparently is plenty of traffic, but they did not do so perhaps due to begged-for limits by the State on pax being flown to HI? But now they can hopefully maximize the number of pax carried by a single flight. Of course AS has the additional competition from WN in the SAN-HI markets now.

Unfortunately it must be noted that AS has dropped both SAN & SJC to LIH for the 1st half of Dec. The route resumes on the 16th of Dec to both cities. Covid-related issues I assume...

BTW, it appears that AS mostly re-worked the Dec 16-Jan 3 (Holiday) skeds last night (Saturday) although I'm still searching to see what else might have been changed... So far lots of slight freq trims and some minor changes.

bb

Anyone know if/when AS will resume SFO-KOA/LIH? I understand that (for some reason) those were pre-pandemic cuts, but it's odd to see them plan to fly low-frequency Mexico adds (ZIH/LTO/MZT/CUN) from SFO but not some core west coast leisure routes.

+ what about SFO-LIR/SJO & BZE? The Caribbean/Central America have weathered the pandemic well. I myself tried to book direct to LIR for this winter but UA's direct option from SFO was far too $$$ and hotel availability was tough to find.

One thing to keep on mind is that AS flew Bay Area-Mexico beaches long before HI or VS were in the picture.

wedgetail737 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

I don't if they updated their schedule, but it seems like PAE-SAN is a casualty.

Yep. I was booked on PAE-SAN on Dec. 27 and returning on Jan. 4. First AS changed from 2x to 1x. Then canned it all together. This isn’t new. It happened at least two weeks ago.

I posted criticism of how AS is handling PAE and got blasted by a few other A.net participants. I realize things are volatile and unpredictable right now, but I do question how sincere AS is about maintaining service at PAE. They have been continuously hacking away and pushing out resumptions of routes at PAE so much, I do wonder if they really ever really planned to operate some of these flights in the first place.

AS cut JAC-SEA from daily to 2x very recently and caused some travelers problems too. I know AS is trying their best, but it is frustrating when you have rental car and hotels booked at certain times and then you feel like it’s, “just kidding, sorry, we never really intended to operate that flight.”

Yeah...I'm a little surprised that AS abandoned PAE to the Bay Area AND the L.A. Basin, including SAN. I see they fly to PSP, but the prices are sky-high...like they are intentionally pricing themselves out of the market. I have hope that AS will regenerate PAE next Spring/Summer.

PAE-PHX is as much as $799 one way right after Christmas. PSP wasn’t quite that high. LAS is in the middle. PAE-TUS is reasonably priced.

I won’t be surprised if AS cuts PAE-TUS before it even starts. More bait and switch.

UA did the same thing. PAE-DEN was much more than UA SEA-DEN or the LLCs. Last year when I flew it, PAE-DEN was the same as SEA-DEN. This year UA jacked the price up so much over SEA that they also seemed to be intentionally discouraging traffic.

BoeingGuy wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

Yep. I was booked on PAE-SAN on Dec. 27 and returning on Jan. 4. First AS changed from 2x to 1x. Then canned it all together. This isn’t new. It happened at least two weeks ago.

I posted criticism of how AS is handling PAE and got blasted by a few other A.net participants. I realize things are volatile and unpredictable right now, but I do question how sincere AS is about maintaining service at PAE. They have been continuously hacking away and pushing out resumptions of routes at PAE so much, I do wonder if they really ever really planned to operate some of these flights in the first place.

AS cut JAC-SEA from daily to 2x very recently and caused some travelers problems too. I know AS is trying their best, but it is frustrating when you have rental car and hotels booked at certain times and then you feel like it’s, “just kidding, sorry, we never really intended to operate that flight.”

Yeah...I'm a little surprised that AS abandoned PAE to the Bay Area AND the L.A. Basin, including SAN. I see they fly to PSP, but the prices are sky-high...like they are intentionally pricing themselves out of the market. I have hope that AS will regenerate PAE next Spring/Summer.

PAE-PHX is as much as $799 one way right after Christmas. PSP wasn’t quite that high. LAS is in the middle. PAE-TUS is reasonably priced.

I won’t be surprised if AS cuts PAE-TUS before it even starts. More bait and switch.

UA did the same thing. PAE-DEN was much more than UA SEA-DEN or the LLCs. Last year when I flew it, PAE-DEN was the same as SEA-DEN. This year UA jacked the price up so much over SEA that they also seemed to be intentionally discouraging traffic.

My brother-in-law was able to get a one-way ticket between OMA-DEN-PAE for $130.

BoeingGuy wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

Yep. I was booked on PAE-SAN on Dec. 27 and returning on Jan. 4. First AS changed from 2x to 1x. Then canned it all together. This isn’t new. It happened at least two weeks ago.

I posted criticism of how AS is handling PAE and got blasted by a few other A.net participants. I realize things are volatile and unpredictable right now, but I do question how sincere AS is about maintaining service at PAE. They have been continuously hacking away and pushing out resumptions of routes at PAE so much, I do wonder if they really ever really planned to operate some of these flights in the first place.

AS cut JAC-SEA from daily to 2x very recently and caused some travelers problems too. I know AS is trying their best, but it is frustrating when you have rental car and hotels booked at certain times and then you feel like it’s, “just kidding, sorry, we never really intended to operate that flight.”

Yeah...I'm a little surprised that AS abandoned PAE to the Bay Area AND the L.A. Basin, including SAN. I see they fly to PSP, but the prices are sky-high...like they are intentionally pricing themselves out of the market. I have hope that AS will regenerate PAE next Spring/Summer.

PAE-PHX is as much as $799 one way right after Christmas. PSP wasn’t quite that high. LAS is in the middle. PAE-TUS is reasonably priced.

I won’t be surprised if AS cuts PAE-TUS before it even starts. More bait and switch.

UA did the same thing. PAE-DEN was much more than UA SEA-DEN or the LLCs. Last year when I flew it, PAE-DEN was the same as SEA-DEN. This year UA jacked the price up so much over SEA that they also seemed to be intentionally discouraging traffic.

AS often zeroes out inventory up to full fare (Y) economy class before they cut a route or schedules. I wouldn’t be surprised to see PAE-PHX reduced or cut shortly. That said - perhaps there really somehow are people paying that much and AS is protecting inventory

joeblow10 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

Yeah...I'm a little surprised that AS abandoned PAE to the Bay Area AND the L.A. Basin, including SAN. I see they fly to PSP, but the prices are sky-high...like they are intentionally pricing themselves out of the market. I have hope that AS will regenerate PAE next Spring/Summer.

PAE-PHX is as much as $799 one way right after Christmas. PSP wasn’t quite that high. LAS is in the middle. PAE-TUS is reasonably priced.

I won’t be surprised if AS cuts PAE-TUS before it even starts. More bait and switch.

UA did the same thing. PAE-DEN was much more than UA SEA-DEN or the LLCs. Last year when I flew it, PAE-DEN was the same as SEA-DEN. This year UA jacked the price up so much over SEA that they also seemed to be intentionally discouraging traffic.

AS often zeroes out inventory up to full fare (Y) economy class before they cut a route or schedules. I wouldn’t be surprised to see PAE-PHX reduced or cut shortly. That said - perhaps there really somehow are people paying that much and AS is protecting inventory

I think PAE-PHX is pretty popular. We booked PAE-LAS in 1st class and it was sold out well over two months before the flight.

ASFlyer wrote:

Lootess wrote:

spinkid wrote:

In my memory at least, he is one of the few living celebrities to have his own Logo Jet. The only one that comes to mind right now is Taylor Swift with Air Asia.................Russell Wilson has a great reputation, but imagine the nightmare that would unfold if some huge negative PR scandal involving him was in the headlines.

Alaska has to live with Russell Wilson as their only connection to the Seahawks, as Delta is the official airline of the Seahawks.

Russell Wilson is the most recognizable face of the Seahawks, and has been one of the better NFL players in general. Who cares if Delta is the "official airline of the Seahawks" - Alaska has managed to cut Delta off at the knees here by their association with the most recognizable and popular player on the team. Ask any Seattlite who they think is the actual official airline and the majority would probably say Alaska because of the relentless advertising during football season using Russell Wilson. Delta wasted their money.

I don’t think you know much about football with a statement like that. Just what they spoon feed people in Seattle I’d guess

wedgetail737 wrote:

b777900 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

They will get rid of those a321neo at about the same time as the a320 classic are removed from service. It's absolutely foolish to keep around 10 a321neo for 3 years by itself. And then as will probably have 5 737 bases in the future (sea, pdx, anc, lax and San). Of course, people will probably tell me I am wrong now and that as will keep a321neo for a long time so they can have a lie flat fleet.

SO if AS retires the 321's what will happen to DCA transcon routes going back to the 738's? How much longer before they fully retire?? that is all DCA gets now is 321? Very few 320;s.

AS could go back to 738's on their DCA routes. But why couldn't a MAX-9 work at DCA?

I believe that the MAX-9 has the same field performance issues out of DCA as the 737-900ERs, but to a lesser extent. The main runway is too short to allow for a full load of passengers, bags, fuel to the west coast, especially in Winter, so seats would have to be blocked, unlike the 738s, which have better field performance. The A321neos do not have the same issue and can fly full payloads out of DCA, even in Winter.

IF DCA Can not handle the MAX 9 OR the 739 because of MTOW and AS retires the 321 and the 738 what will happen to DCA service?

32andBelow wrote:

Alaska could have bought the naming rights to that stadium. But it might have been too spendy for them.

That holds its own PR uncertainty.

In Anchorage, the two non-hospital buildings most publicly associated with COVID are the Sullivan Arena, currently the largest homeless shelter in the county, and the Alaska Airline Center, emergency overflow for Providence Hospital and COVID testing site.

I imagine there's not a single corporation in America who would have relished their name being associated with the Superdome after Katrina.

b777900 wrote:

IF DCA Can not handle the MAX 9 OR the 739 because of MTOW and AS retires the 321 and the 738 what will happen to DCA service?

AS will offer fewer seats.

NameOmitted wrote:

b777900 wrote:

IF DCA Can not handle the MAX 9 OR the 739 because of MTOW and AS retires the 321 and the 738 what will happen to DCA service?

AS will offer fewer seats.

AS will use the 737-800 or 737-8 out of DCA. Just like they used the -800 for many years previously.

NameOmitted wrote:

I imagine there's not a single corporation in America who would have relished their name being associated with the Superdome after Katrina.

You mean like Mercedes Benz and Caesars Entertainment, both of whom acquired the naming rights to the Superdome after Katrina?

joeblow10 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

Yeah...I'm a little surprised that AS abandoned PAE to the Bay Area AND the L.A. Basin, including SAN. I see they fly to PSP, but the prices are sky-high...like they are intentionally pricing themselves out of the market. I have hope that AS will regenerate PAE next Spring/Summer.

PAE-PHX is as much as $799 one way right after Christmas. PSP wasn’t quite that high. LAS is in the middle. PAE-TUS is reasonably priced.

I won’t be surprised if AS cuts PAE-TUS before it even starts. More bait and switch.

UA did the same thing. PAE-DEN was much more than UA SEA-DEN or the LLCs. Last year when I flew it, PAE-DEN was the same as SEA-DEN. This year UA jacked the price up so much over SEA that they also seemed to be intentionally discouraging traffic.

AS often zeroes out inventory up to full fare (Y) economy class before they cut a route or schedules. I wouldn’t be surprised to see PAE-PHX reduced or cut shortly. That said - perhaps there really somehow are people paying that much and AS is protecting inventory

AS also makes only Y inventory available on specific high demand markets at high demand periods like around the holidays, knowing full well they’ll sell every single seat at full Y by the time the flight leaves. PAEPHX is one of the best performers in the network.

EA CO AS wrote:

joeblow10 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

PAE-PHX is as much as $799 one way right after Christmas. PSP wasn’t quite that high. LAS is in the middle. PAE-TUS is reasonably priced.

I won’t be surprised if AS cuts PAE-TUS before it even starts. More bait and switch.

UA did the same thing. PAE-DEN was much more than UA SEA-DEN or the LLCs. Last year when I flew it, PAE-DEN was the same as SEA-DEN. This year UA jacked the price up so much over SEA that they also seemed to be intentionally discouraging traffic.

AS often zeroes out inventory up to full fare (Y) economy class before they cut a route or schedules. I wouldn’t be surprised to see PAE-PHX reduced or cut shortly. That said - perhaps there really somehow are people paying that much and AS is protecting inventory

AS also makes only Y inventory available on specific high demand markets at high demand periods like around the holidays, knowing full well they’ll sell every single seat at full Y by the time the flight leaves. PAEPHX is one of the best performers in the network.

Until they don’t sell and then prices collapse to reality 2-3 months in advance. Very used to the practice as I fly AS all the time. The prices drop every single time. No rational person is paying $799 OW for PAEPHX.

spinkid wrote:

In my memory at least, he is one of the few living celebrities to have his own Logo Jet. The only one that comes to mind right now is Taylor Swift with Air Asia.................Russell Wilson has a great reputation, but imagine the nightmare that would unfold if some huge negative PR scandal involving him was in the headlines.

Elton John was featured on an AirTran plane to promote the XM Radio entertainment.

BoeingGuy wrote:

NameOmitted wrote:

b777900 wrote:

IF DCA Can not handle the MAX 9 OR the 739 because of MTOW and AS retires the 321 and the 738 what will happen to DCA service?

AS will offer fewer seats.

AS will use the 737-800 or 737-8 out of DCA. Just like they used the -800 for many years previously.

When AS finally retires the 738 than what?? Will AS ever try for new longer range fleet for transcons..

b777900 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

NameOmitted wrote:

AS will offer fewer seats.

AS will use the 737-800 or 737-8 out of DCA. Just like they used the -800 for many years previously.

When AS finally retires the 738 than what?? Will AS ever try for new longer range fleet for transcons..

Well they’ve probably got 20 years until they retire the 7M8…

b777900 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

NameOmitted wrote:

AS will offer fewer seats.

AS will use the 737-800 or 737-8 out of DCA. Just like they used the -800 for many years previously.

When AS finally retires the 738 than what?? Will AS ever try for new longer range fleet for transcons..

737-8

USAirKid wrote:

b777900 wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

AS will use the 737-800 or 737-8 out of DCA. Just like they used the -800 for many years previously.

When AS finally retires the 738 than what?? Will AS ever try for new longer range fleet for transcons..

Well they’ve probably got 20 years until they retire the 7M8…

Kind of hard to retire a plane they don't even have on order. All AS max8 orders were converted to max9s. They might convert some of them back but the current order is only for max9s.
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2021-08- ... 9-aircraft

gmcc wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

b777900 wrote:

When AS finally retires the 738 than what?? Will AS ever try for new longer range fleet for transcons..

Well they’ve probably got 20 years until they retire the 7M8…

Kind of hard to retire a plane they don't even have on order. All AS max8 orders were converted to max9s. They might convert some of them back but the current order is only for max9s.
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2021-08- ... 9-aircraft

Oh okay. I didn’t realize that. My previous response was incorrect. I assumed AS would use the 737-8 to DCA, but sounds like that model isn’t going to be in their fleet.