AS took delivery of its fifth Boeing 737-9 MAX today, N291BT.

seahawks7757 wrote:

AS took delivery of its fifth Boeing 737-9 MAX today, N291BT.

Looks like this ship was going to be 920. Will that number be reused on another frame or will it be skipped? One other question about the Max fleet, are there currently 81 total coming or is it 81+leased aircraft?

sfojvjets wrote:

sxf24 wrote:

sfojvjets wrote:

Yeah. That ship sailed quite some time ago... imagine going from over 20% to ~7% SFO market share in the span of just 4 years. Ouch.

At the same time I hope to see AS grow in SJC. Unlikely though as they are caught between a rock (United) at SFO and a hard place (WN) at SJC. Being successful in the Bay Area is hard, as they have most certainly found.

It was 12% at the end of 2020. SFO traffic has gone off a cliff during COVID, the worst for any major airport. Are you suggesting AS should be chasing share in a disrupted market

Regarding market share %, my bad - I may have looked at numbers that excluded Skywest operated flights - still not a great number. And about "chasing share in a disrupted market," yes, I believe that AS must either fully resign themselves to being uncompetitive and start picking apart SFO, or fully commit to chasing share. Why else are they opening a lounge at SFO later this summer??

There are too many mixed signals coming from AS re SFO but as long as the lounge plan is on track, which it is, I expect them to chase share at SFO regardless of how disrupted the market may be. Let me pose the question back to you in a different way: Why is AS building a lounge in such a disrupted market in which they continue to lose share? Opening a lounge shows commitment to the area and a commitment to premium pax. They either must match this commitment route/network-wise from SFO, or they should be stopping lounge construction and instead reallocate resources to other hubs/focus cities that they may seem to care about more. And the former seems much more likely than the latter at this point in time.

Seems a bit odd that AS is only now getting to a lounge at SFO and a bit ironic that they're sharing a terminal at SFO with DL.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

sfojvjets wrote:

sxf24 wrote:

It was 12% at the end of 2020. SFO traffic has gone off a cliff during COVID, the worst for any major airport. Are you suggesting AS should be chasing share in a disrupted market

Regarding market share %, my bad - I may have looked at numbers that excluded Skywest operated flights - still not a great number. And about "chasing share in a disrupted market," yes, I believe that AS must either fully resign themselves to being uncompetitive and start picking apart SFO, or fully commit to chasing share. Why else are they opening a lounge at SFO later this summer??

There are too many mixed signals coming from AS re SFO but as long as the lounge plan is on track, which it is, I expect them to chase share at SFO regardless of how disrupted the market may be. Let me pose the question back to you in a different way: Why is AS building a lounge in such a disrupted market in which they continue to lose share? Opening a lounge shows commitment to the area and a commitment to premium pax. They either must match this commitment route/network-wise from SFO, or they should be stopping lounge construction and instead reallocate resources to other hubs/focus cities that they may seem to care about more. And the former seems much more likely than the latter at this point in time.

Seems a bit odd that AS is only now getting to a lounge at SFO and a bit ironic that they're sharing a terminal at SFO with DL.

Until recently, there wasn’t space for a lounge. They were building space when COVID hit and worked with the airport to occupy AA’s old space rather than convert to retail.

Neither AS nor VX signed an exclusive agreement for Terminal 2D. When AA moved out, AS picked up more gates and DL took the rest and stopped using B gates.

sxf24 wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

sfojvjets wrote:

Regarding market share %, my bad - I may have looked at numbers that excluded Skywest operated flights - still not a great number. And about "chasing share in a disrupted market," yes, I believe that AS must either fully resign themselves to being uncompetitive and start picking apart SFO, or fully commit to chasing share. Why else are they opening a lounge at SFO later this summer??

There are too many mixed signals coming from AS re SFO but as long as the lounge plan is on track, which it is, I expect them to chase share at SFO regardless of how disrupted the market may be. Let me pose the question back to you in a different way: Why is AS building a lounge in such a disrupted market in which they continue to lose share? Opening a lounge shows commitment to the area and a commitment to premium pax. They either must match this commitment route/network-wise from SFO, or they should be stopping lounge construction and instead reallocate resources to other hubs/focus cities that they may seem to care about more. And the former seems much more likely than the latter at this point in time.

Seems a bit odd that AS is only now getting to a lounge at SFO and a bit ironic that they're sharing a terminal at SFO with DL.

Until recently, there wasn’t space for a lounge. They were building space when COVID hit and worked with the airport to occupy AA’s old space rather than convert to retail.

Neither AS nor VX signed an exclusive agreement for Terminal 2D. When AA moved out, AS picked up more gates and DL took the rest and stopped using B gates.

Yes, I figured they were moving into the old AA Admiral's Club space in 2, which is pretty large and quite nice. I think AS can sustain and grow SFO. They will obviously not reach the levels UA has with capacity and coverage but they really don't need to.

QXAS wrote:

seahawks7757 wrote:

AS took delivery of its fifth Boeing 737-9 MAX today, N291BT.

Looks like this ship was going to be 920. Will that number be reused on another frame or will it be skipped? One other question about the Max fleet, are there currently 81 total coming or is it 81+leased aircraft?

I think N291BT is probably a Boeing test registration and this will end up being N920AS. I have no insider information, so anyone who does can feel free to correct me on that assumption.

Whats the scoop on the -700s? Permanently removed from the fleet, long term storage, to be scrapped?

AndoAv8R wrote:

Whats the scoop on the -700s? Permanently removed from the fleet, long term storage, to be scrapped?

AS put the new interior in the 700s so they will be around for a bit. They typically stay in Alaska with some side trips to the PNW. Once they age out, my guess would be either upgauge to an 800 or downrange to an E175. To those of us on the outside it is unclear if AS will get a plane between the MAX9's, the only size they have on order, and the E175.

DLASFlyer wrote:

So the pride plane doesn’t just have rainbow on the outside but also cycles through a rainbow of colors on the inside.

https://twitter.com/alaskaair/status/14 ... 6755936260
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/3kX55yR

ALASKA just signed codeshare agreement with OW partner QATAR. Just to remember, Qatar a country still with the possibility of death penalty for Homosexuality... Will we ever see a QR-codeshare flight number on the PRIDE JET?!

https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Glob ... hare-Plans

gmcc wrote:

AndoAv8R wrote:

Whats the scoop on the -700s? Permanently removed from the fleet, long term storage, to be scrapped?

AS put the new interior in the 700s so they will be around for a bit. They typically stay in Alaska with some side trips to the PNW. Once they age out, my guess would be either upgauge to an 800 or downrange to an E175. To those of us on the outside it is unclear if AS will get a plane between the MAX9's, the only size they have on order, and the E175.

I wonder if they’ll convert more into freighters. Seems like their couple Freighters fly a lot. I’m surprised they didn’t go after some Amazon flying to the state. Sun country got the SEAFAI one

32andBelow wrote:

gmcc wrote:

AndoAv8R wrote:

Whats the scoop on the -700s? Permanently removed from the fleet, long term storage, to be scrapped?

AS put the new interior in the 700s so they will be around for a bit. They typically stay in Alaska with some side trips to the PNW. Once they age out, my guess would be either upgauge to an 800 or downrange to an E175. To those of us on the outside it is unclear if AS will get a plane between the MAX9's, the only size they have on order, and the E175.

I wonder if they’ll convert more into freighters. Seems like their couple Freighters fly a lot. I’m surprised they didn’t go after some Amazon flying to the state. Sun country got the SEAFAI one

Per earlier discussion on this forum, the cargo branch wants a -800 once one the passenger line is able to spare one.

ASFlyer wrote:

One particularly gruesome turn right now has the crew checking in at 2256, working the midnight redeye to ORD then turning around and working the 0700 flight back to SEA. Releasing at 0959 I believe. It's ugly but some senior people seem to bid it.

Ive seen worse.

32andBelow wrote:

gmcc wrote:

AndoAv8R wrote:

Whats the scoop on the -700s? Permanently removed from the fleet, long term storage, to be scrapped?

AS put the new interior in the 700s so they will be around for a bit. They typically stay in Alaska with some side trips to the PNW. Once they age out, my guess would be either upgauge to an 800 or downrange to an E175. To those of us on the outside it is unclear if AS will get a plane between the MAX9's, the only size they have on order, and the E175.

I wonder if they’ll convert more into freighters. Seems like their couple Freighters fly a lot. I’m surprised they didn’t go after some Amazon flying to the state. Sun country got the SEAFAI one

PDX-FAI, not SEA. And it’s branded as Amazon Air, just flown by SY…I am sure Amazon wanted to keep it in house. The 767 that does PDX-ANC every day is also branded as Amazon.

AndoAv8R wrote:

Whats the scoop on the -700s? Permanently removed from the fleet, long term storage, to be scrapped?

They are still flying around...within AK and between the PNW and AK mostly. I saw a couple of them this morning.

32andBelow wrote:

I wonder if they’ll convert more into freighters. Seems like their couple Freighters fly a lot. I’m surprised they didn’t go after some Amazon flying to the state. Sun country got the SEAFAI one

As Chugach mentioned, this is Amazon Air. Amazon keeps a strong hold on their operations, they do the scheduling, have the primary lease on the airplane, and can take the plane away from Sun Country with minimal notice. I'm not sure AS wants to get into that business.

32andBelow wrote:

Cus the marketing lounge people and the schedule planning people probably aren’t talking

Will never happen...route planning doesn't even talk to crew planning!

debonair wrote:

DLASFlyer wrote:

So the pride plane doesn’t just have rainbow on the outside but also cycles through a rainbow of colors on the inside.

https://twitter.com/alaskaair/status/14 ... 6755936260
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/3kX55yR

ALASKA just signed codeshare agreement with OW partner QATAR. Just to remember, Qatar a country still with the possibility of death penalty for Homosexuality... Will we ever see a QR-codeshare flight number on the PRIDE JET?!

https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Glob ... hare-Plans

I doubt they'll control it to that level of detail. If I were in Ops, I'd push back hard against this type of restriction.

USAirKid wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

I wonder if they’ll convert more into freighters. Seems like their couple Freighters fly a lot. I’m surprised they didn’t go after some Amazon flying to the state. Sun country got the SEAFAI one

As Chugach mentioned, this is Amazon Air. Amazon keeps a strong hold on their operations, they do the scheduling, have the primary lease on the airplane, and can take the plane away from Sun Country with minimal notice. I'm not sure AS wants to get into that business.

Idk seems like easy money but maybe the AS pilots make too much

32andBelow wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

I wonder if they’ll convert more into freighters. Seems like their couple Freighters fly a lot. I’m surprised they didn’t go after some Amazon flying to the state. Sun country got the SEAFAI one

As Chugach mentioned, this is Amazon Air. Amazon keeps a strong hold on their operations, they do the scheduling, have the primary lease on the airplane, and can take the plane away from Sun Country with minimal notice. I'm not sure AS wants to get into that business.

Idk seems like easy money but maybe the AS pilots make too much

Alaska Air Cargo does not have the feedstock to expand its own fleet, let alone add some for Amazon.

NameOmitted wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

As Chugach mentioned, this is Amazon Air. Amazon keeps a strong hold on their operations, they do the scheduling, have the primary lease on the airplane, and can take the plane away from Sun Country with minimal notice. I'm not sure AS wants to get into that business.

Idk seems like easy money but maybe the AS pilots make too much

Alaska Air Cargo does not have the feedstock to expand its own fleet, let alone add some for Amazon.

I don’t know what feedstock is

32andBelow wrote:

NameOmitted wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

Idk seems like easy money but maybe the AS pilots make too much

Alaska Air Cargo does not have the feedstock to expand its own fleet, let alone add some for Amazon.

I don’t know what feedstock is

I think he means the number of airplanes. Alaska Cargo doesn’t have any additional airplanes to expand its own fleet, let alone add some for Amazon.

BoeingGuy wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

NameOmitted wrote:

Alaska Air Cargo does not have the feedstock to expand its own fleet, let alone add some for Amazon.

I don’t know what feedstock is

I think he means the number of airplanes. Alaska Cargo doesn’t have any additional airplanes to expand its own fleet, let alone add some for Amazon.

Yah that’s what I’m saying. That they need more freighters. And that they could go after some Amazon flying. Sun country got the Fairbanks flight. If there are additional Alaska flights I don’t see why they wouldn’t take the contracts. But the pilot wages might make it non feasible.

32andBelow wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

I don’t know what feedstock is

I think he means the number of airplanes. Alaska Cargo doesn’t have any additional airplanes to expand its own fleet, let alone add some for Amazon.

Yah that’s what I’m saying. That they need more freighters. And that they could go after some Amazon flying. Sun country got the Fairbanks flight. If there are additional Alaska flights I don’t see why they wouldn’t take the contracts. But the pilot wages might make it non feasible.

Feedstock is available aircraft for conversion. AS does not have excess 738s, so it has no feedstock for freighter conversions.

As someone explained above, that’s not how Amazon operates with its carriers. Amazon leases the aircraft then subleases to Sun Country, it did just give Sun Country the route. Regardless, the AS cost base would not be conducive to this type of cargo operation.

Does anyone think Alaska will relaunch SFO to LIH and KOA? These seem like key routes they'd want to resume, since they keep saying that they're going to re-commit to SFO and SJC...

Separately, I'd also have to wonder if they'd launch SFO to BZE, SJO and/or LIR at some point given that they are restarting CUN.

I'm aware that their VP of route network recently said that they need to rejig their focus from increasing network breadth (adding new routes) to instead focusing on depth (increasing frequencies on existing routes) but there are some obvious opportunities here.

Looks like Alaska's SJC-JAC is switching to SFO-JAC for winter 2021-22.

DLASFlyer wrote:

Looks like Alaska's SJC-JAC is switching to SFO-JAC for winter 2021-22.

Nvm I found it

LAX,SFO,SAN,SJC cut from MSO... ouch

Wneast wrote:

LAX,SFO,SAN,SJC cut from MSO... ouch

MSO seemed odd to me. Don’t get me wrong - I understand the Montana craze, but BZN or FCA seem more obvious given their “gateway” status. Missoula is really kind of it’s own little city

I think MSO was meant to be seasonal anyway.

Wneast wrote:

LAX,SFO,SAN,SJC cut from MSO... ouch

It also looks like BZN is being used to replace some of the lost MSO routes. It will be daily this winter, at least from SAN (and SFO?)

MSO was a gamble while AS chased leisure this year during the COVID recovery. Now that things are sort of heading back in the direction of "normal", and business travel is at least beginning some level of coming back, a/c that are not carrying good loads, such as the MSO experiment (particularly in the winter) will be placed elsewhere in the network. I think we'll continue to see lots of adjustments to the route map and schedules as we continue heading back toward normal.

When SAN-MSO started, it was announced as year-round so I am disappointed to see it go but at least AS tried something different. And it's certainly nice to see BZN replacing it more-or-less. Personally, I think BZN, closer to Yellowstone, is a bigger market anyway and could very well become permanent. My opinion.

bb

Anyone have Alaska’s projected fleet size end of year(s) 2021-2024?

amcnd wrote:

Anyone have Alaska’s projected fleet size end of year(s) 2021-2024?

It’s on page 46 of the latest 10k:
https://investor.alaskaair.com/static-f ... 39632eb056

USAirKid wrote:

amcnd wrote:

Anyone have Alaska’s projected fleet size end of year(s) 2021-2024?

It’s on page 46 of the latest 10k:
https://investor.alaskaair.com/static-f ... 39632eb056

This doesn’t include the most recent orders for MAXes or E175s. https://investor.alaskaair.com/news-rel ... -expansion

77% system wide load factor in Q2. Not bad, eh!

Courtesy of your favourite aviation news source

https://simpleflying.com/alaska-second-quarter-load-factor/

MAJOR schedule update this weekend.....

Appears to be updated all the way to December 1st.

Interestingly, SEA-JAC is now a mainline 737 starting November 19th...

SAN-FLL is also increased as well.

AC4500 wrote:

Interestingly, SEA-JAC is now a mainline 737 starting November 19th...

SAN-FLL is also increased as well.

Wow! And it's a -700. A dedicated -700 route within the mainland USA and not solely to AK. It's great to see JAC go mainline. It just means that JAC has promise for the next ski/snowboard season!

It appears AS giving SAN some additional love out of SAN...probably makes SANFan happy.

wedgetail737 wrote:

It appears AS giving SAN some additional love out of SAN...probably makes SANFan happy.

Boy, I'm late to the party! I better get looking around and see what I can find! Thanks for the heads up wedgie'.

bb

SANFan wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

It appears AS giving SAN some additional love out of SAN...probably makes SANFan happy.

Boy, I'm late to the party! I better get looking around and see what I can find! Thanks for the heads up wedgie'.

bb

I didn't look all that much, but it seems like there's a significant increase in FL service from SAN. I'm sure you'll find more...maybe more mainline service or increased frequency.

SANFan wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

It appears AS giving SAN some additional love out of SAN...probably makes SANFan happy.

Boy, I'm late to the party! I better get looking around and see what I can find! Thanks for the heads up wedgie'.

bb

It appears that the SAN-FLL increase is just for the holiday season. I see 2 daily SAN-MCO flights in the placeholder schedule. Has it always been like that?

AC4500 wrote:

Interestingly, SEA-JAC is now a mainline 737 starting November 19th.

Only for 11 days currently. Showing back to SkyWest E175 on December 1st. Hopefully they just haven’t updated the schedule for the rest of winter.

AC4500 wrote:

It appears that the SAN-FLL increase is just for the holiday season. I see 2 daily SAN-MCO flights in the placeholder schedule. Has it always been like that?

Yes AC', AS's been trying to double up on MCO for a long time now -- IIRC, it was originally supposed to happen in 2020. Now, they can't even op 1 daily flight, and that's with pretty much no competition on the route -- WN and I believe F9 are both gone from the market. (The same is true with several other markets; e.g., they've been trying to double up on MRY and SLC for about the same amount of time. All these markets from SAN appear in the placeholder sked's as daily dbl but then get trimmed as the skeds are finalized. At least they both remain at a single daily r/t. Maybe in 2022 we will see the increases implemented...)

The FLL flight starts for the Thanksgiving period, which runs 11/19 thru 11/30. The 12/1 sked still consists of placeholders and is prolly not close to reality.

The November sked is effective 11/7, with the holiday adds happening starting 11/19. This is what was all updated last night. I expect we'll see December updated in a few weeks.

The one good change regarding the SAN-FLL route is that it is now scheduled as a morning departure from SAN - at 7:30am - rather than the early afternoon departure previously offered. The return will arrive back in SAN ~7pm-ish. At least to start, the r/t is expected to op daily except Tuesdays.

Other than that, I don't really see anything too exciting; mostly the expected trims to the majority of routes. For example, both SBA & SBP are being trimmed quite a bit... On a more positive note, I do see the 2nd SAN-JFK flight there, and even with a slight increase in frequencies in the market from what was originally planned.

bb

AC4500 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

It appears AS giving SAN some additional love out of SAN...probably makes SANFan happy.

Boy, I'm late to the party! I better get looking around and see what I can find! Thanks for the heads up wedgie'.

bb

It appears that the SAN-FLL increase is just for the holiday season. I see 2 daily SAN-MCO flights in the placeholder schedule. Has it always been like that?

That makes sense. Yeah...I didn't know SAN-MCO was already 2X daily. I know that when I flew the route, it was just 1X daily.

SANFan wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

It appears that the SAN-FLL increase is just for the holiday season. I see 2 daily SAN-MCO flights in the placeholder schedule. Has it always been like that?

Yes AC', AS's been trying to double up on MCO for a long time now -- IIRC, it was originally supposed to happen in 2020. Now, they can't even op 1 daily flight, and that's with pretty much no competition on the route -- WN and I believe F9 are both gone from the market. (The same is true with several other markets; e.g., they've been trying to double up on MRY and SLC for about the same amount of time. All these markets from SAN appear in the placeholder sked's as daily dbl but then get trimmed as the skeds are finalized. At least they both remain at a single daily r/t. Maybe in 2022 we will see the increases implemented...)

The FLL flight starts for the Thanksgiving period, which runs 11/19 thru 11/30. The 12/1 sked still consists of placeholders and is prolly not close to reality.

The November sked is effective 11/7, with the holiday adds happening starting 11/19. This is what was all updated last night. I expect we'll see December updated in a few weeks.

The one good change regarding the SAN-FLL route is that it is now scheduled as a morning departure from SAN - at 7:30am - rather than the early afternoon departure previously offered. The return will arrive back in SAN ~7pm-ish. At least to start, the r/t is expected to op daily except Tuesdays.

Other than that, I don't really see anything too exciting; mostly the expected trims to the majority of routes. For example, both SBA & SBP are being trimmed quite a bit... On a more positive note, I do see the 2nd SAN-JFK flight there, and even with a slight increase in frequencies in the market from what was originally planned.

bb

Sounds like I'm late to the game...LOL! It looked pretty impressive compared to the last time I check...pre-pandemic. I made the connection from SEA to MCO through SAN...mainly to maximize my mileage, since it was the same price as the nonstop. I'm hoping many of the trimmed routes are just seasonal norms.

DLASFlyer wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

Interestingly, SEA-JAC is now a mainline 737 starting November 19th.

Only for 11 days currently. Showing back to SkyWest E175 on December 1st. Hopefully they just haven’t updated the schedule for the rest of winter.

Hopefully, the SEA-JAC will go back to 737's of some sort during the Christmas Break. I guess they'll look how the bookings come out with the 737 and see if they fill it.

DLASFlyer wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

Interestingly, SEA-JAC is now a mainline 737 starting November 19th.

Only for 11 days currently. Showing back to SkyWest E175 on December 1st. Hopefully they just haven’t updated the schedule for the rest of winter.

They haven't. The schedule is currently updated up to December 1st. Isn't JAC closing from April to June?

Another interesting point.... Alaska's PDX-DFW flight is now a very early 6:25 AM departure. The timing of this flight must have to do with connections via AA at DFW.