Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
ATSS wrote:Looking forward to a better 2021. New planes, new routes and continued excellent performance.
jplatts wrote:(c) AS being able to tap into the FF base that AA already has in the CLE, DSM, BDL, JAX, MSN, ORF, and TUL markets.
jplatts wrote:I have previously mentioned AS possibly adding SEA-CLE/BDL/JAX/ORF nonstop service with CLE, BDL, JAX, ORF being 4 of the top domestic destinations traveled to SEA prior to the COVID-19 pandemic that aren't currently served by AS. I had also previously mentioned that the lack of SEA-CLE nonstop service on a non-ULCC was a huge hole prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, even with F9 having summer seasonal less-than-daily SEA-CLE nonstop service prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.
While not as big of an hole, AS adding SEA-DSM/MSN/TUL nonstop service using E-175 regional jets is a possibility with (a) SEA-DSM/MSN/TUL being within the range of E-175 regional jets and (b) AS probably able to easily fill an E-175 regional jet on SEA-DSM/MSN/TUL if demand were at normal levels with the amount of passengers per day that were traveling to SEA from DSM, MSN, and TUL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.
There are also other factors apart from O&D to support AS service to new destinations such as CLE, DSM, BDL, JAX, MSN, ORF, and TUL such as
(a) the connections that AS would be able to offer to Washington State, Oregon, British Columbia, Alaska, and Hawaii through its SEA hub,
(b) possible connecting opportunities onto JL's SEA-NRT and AA's SEA-BLR/PVG flights, and
(c) AS being able to tap into the FF base that AA already has in the CLE, DSM, BDL, JAX, MSN, ORF, and TUL markets.
jplatts wrote:I have previously mentioned AS possibly adding SEA-CLE/BDL/JAX/ORF nonstop service with CLE, BDL, JAX, ORF being 4 of the top domestic destinations traveled to SEA prior to the COVID-19 pandemic that aren't currently served by AS. I had also previously mentioned that the lack of SEA-CLE nonstop service on a non-ULCC was a huge hole prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, even with F9 having summer seasonal less-than-daily SEA-CLE nonstop service prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.
While not as big of an hole, AS adding SEA-DSM/MSN/TUL nonstop service using E-175 regional jets is a possibility with (a) SEA-DSM/MSN/TUL being within the range of E-175 regional jets and (b) AS probably able to easily fill an E-175 regional jet on SEA-DSM/MSN/TUL if demand were at normal levels with the amount of passengers per day that were traveling to SEA from DSM, MSN, and TUL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.
There are also other factors apart from O&D to support AS service to new destinations such as CLE, DSM, BDL, JAX, MSN, ORF, and TUL such as
(a) the connections that AS would be able to offer to Washington State, Oregon, British Columbia, Alaska, and Hawaii through its SEA hub,
(b) possible connecting opportunities onto JL's SEA-NRT and AA's SEA-BLR/PVG flights, and
(c) AS being able to tap into the FF base that AA already has in the CLE, DSM, BDL, JAX, MSN, ORF, and TUL markets.
SANFan wrote:jplatts wrote:I have previously mentioned AS possibly adding SEA-CLE/BDL/JAX/ORF nonstop service with CLE, BDL, JAX, ORF being 4 of the top domestic destinations traveled to SEA prior to the COVID-19 pandemic that aren't currently served by AS. I had also previously mentioned that the lack of SEA-CLE nonstop service on a non-ULCC was a huge hole prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, even with F9 having summer seasonal less-than-daily SEA-CLE nonstop service prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.
While not as big of an hole, AS adding SEA-DSM/MSN/TUL nonstop service using E-175 regional jets is a possibility with (a) SEA-DSM/MSN/TUL being within the range of E-175 regional jets and (b) AS probably able to easily fill an E-175 regional jet on SEA-DSM/MSN/TUL if demand were at normal levels with the amount of passengers per day that were traveling to SEA from DSM, MSN, and TUL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.
There are also other factors apart from O&D to support AS service to new destinations such as CLE, DSM, BDL, JAX, MSN, ORF, and TUL such as
(a) the connections that AS would be able to offer to Washington State, Oregon, British Columbia, Alaska, and Hawaii through its SEA hub,
(b) possible connecting opportunities onto JL's SEA-NRT and AA's SEA-BLR/PVG flights, and
(c) AS being able to tap into the FF base that AA already has in the CLE, DSM, BDL, JAX, MSN, ORF, and TUL markets.
So according to you, it appears that Seattle is the only city that AS will add destinations from. I could have sworn there were other cities -- hubs and focus cities in fact -- that AS has been growing recently, cities in Oregon and what's that other state to the south, oh yeah, Cali-something.
But I guess according to you, all those new planes and routes will be based in SEA. IMO, the low hanging fruit from SEA has already been very well picked over by AS; you're getting into routes with PDEWs in the 80s and 90s even though they may be the largest un-served routes (pax-wise.) And despite the added pax gained thru non-O&D means you listed above. Just because a market is amongst the largest un-served routes from SEA doesn't mean it has to or will be served... There's also a matter of limited gate/terminal space and growing congestion at AS's largest hub.
There must be a limit at which AS will send their new a/c on missions from other hubs and large stations rather than trying to fly nonstop from SEA to every city with at least 15 pax per day! And I think we're seeing that AS is currently circling that limit; IMO, we are seeing AS network planners thinking more and more outside the SEA-box.
bb
wedgetail737 wrote:I think the renovated east side of the N-concourse will be opened fairly soon (around summertime?). It will open some new gates. But it could also allow AS to release S, A and B gates they have been using. Also, maybe not so many remote stand flights.
EA CO AS wrote:wedgetail737 wrote:I think the renovated east side of the N-concourse will be opened fairly soon (around summertime?). It will open some new gates. But it could also allow AS to release S, A and B gates they have been using. Also, maybe not so many remote stand flights.
AS has zero interest in freeing up gates at SEA.
AC4500 wrote:SANFan wrote:But I guess according to you, all those new planes and routes will be based in SEA. IMO, the low hanging fruit from SEA has already been very well picked over by AS; you're getting into routes with PDEWs in the 80s and 90s even though they may be the largest un-served routes (pax-wise.) And despite the added pax gained thru non-O&D means you listed above. Just because a market is amongst the largest un-served routes from SEA doesn't mean it has to or will be served... There's also a matter of limited gate/terminal space and growing congestion at AS's largest hub.
There must be a limit at which AS will send their new a/c on missions from other hubs and large stations rather than trying to fly nonstop from SEA to every city with at least 15 pax per day! And I think we're seeing that AS is currently circling that limit; IMO, we are seeing AS network planners thinking more and more outside the SEA-box.
Exactly. There isn't really a whole lot AS can add in Seattle that makes sense. CLE seems like the only that the OP listed that could work IMO. Not to mention, that gate space in Seattle is at it's limit, and they're going to want to resume their pre-COVID flights before adding any new destinations.
wedgetail737 wrote:Just imagine SEA-Williston, ND...LOL!
jplatts wrote:wedgetail737 wrote:Just imagine SEA-Williston, ND...LOL!
While there are some destinations served by AS in Alaska and Washington State that carried fewer passengers than ISN/XWA did in 2019, I probably do not expect AS to ever add SEA-XWA nonstop service.
MIflyer12 wrote:jplatts wrote:(c) AS being able to tap into the FF base that AA already has in the CLE, DSM, BDL, JAX, MSN, ORF, and TUL markets.
AA isn't the #1 operating carrier in any of those markets. In CLE and MSN it isn't even among the top 5. Small fractions of midsize markets - blah.
wedgetail737 wrote:EA CO AS wrote:wedgetail737 wrote:I think the renovated east side of the N-concourse will be opened fairly soon (around summertime?). It will open some new gates. But it could also allow AS to release S, A and B gates they have been using. Also, maybe not so many remote stand flights.
AS has zero interest in freeing up gates at SEA.
I totally understand...and why would they. That would just free up space for competition.
452QX wrote:wedgetail737 wrote:EA CO AS wrote:
AS has zero interest in freeing up gates at SEA.
I totally understand...and why would they. That would just free up space for competition.
With the exception of B11/15, the other S and A gates are common use and requested from the port of seattle when needed. S1a is another exception as QX is the only airline that ever uses it
SANFan wrote:jplatts wrote:I have previously mentioned AS possibly adding SEA-CLE/BDL/JAX/ORF nonstop service with CLE, BDL, JAX, ORF being 4 of the top domestic destinations traveled to SEA prior to the COVID-19 pandemic that aren't currently served by AS. I had also previously mentioned that the lack of SEA-CLE nonstop service on a non-ULCC was a huge hole prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, even with F9 having summer seasonal less-than-daily SEA-CLE nonstop service prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.
While not as big of an hole, AS adding SEA-DSM/MSN/TUL nonstop service using E-175 regional jets is a possibility with (a) SEA-DSM/MSN/TUL being within the range of E-175 regional jets and (b) AS probably able to easily fill an E-175 regional jet on SEA-DSM/MSN/TUL if demand were at normal levels with the amount of passengers per day that were traveling to SEA from DSM, MSN, and TUL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.
There are also other factors apart from O&D to support AS service to new destinations such as CLE, DSM, BDL, JAX, MSN, ORF, and TUL such as
(a) the connections that AS would be able to offer to Washington State, Oregon, British Columbia, Alaska, and Hawaii through its SEA hub,
(b) possible connecting opportunities onto JL's SEA-NRT and AA's SEA-BLR/PVG flights, and
(c) AS being able to tap into the FF base that AA already has in the CLE, DSM, BDL, JAX, MSN, ORF, and TUL markets.
So according to you, it appears that Seattle is the only city that AS will add destinations from. I could have sworn there were other cities -- hubs and focus cities in fact -- that AS has been growing recently, cities in Oregon and what's that other state to the south, oh yeah, Cali-something.
But I guess according to you, all those new planes and routes will be based in SEA. IMO, the low hanging fruit from SEA has already been very well picked over by AS; you're getting into routes with PDEWs in the 80s and 90s even though they may be the largest un-served routes (pax-wise.) And despite the added pax gained thru non-O&D means you listed above. Just because a market is amongst the largest un-served routes from SEA doesn't mean it has to or will be served... There's also a matter of limited gate/terminal space and growing congestion at AS's largest hub.
There must be a limit at which AS will send their new a/c on missions from other hubs and large stations rather than trying to fly nonstop from SEA to every city with at least 15 pax per day! And I think we're seeing that AS is currently circling that limit; IMO, we are seeing AS network planners thinking more and more outside the SEA-box.
bb
wedgetail737 wrote:jplatts wrote:wedgetail737 wrote:Just imagine SEA-Williston, ND...LOL!
While there are some destinations served by AS in Alaska and Washington State that carried fewer passengers than ISN/XWA did in 2019, I probably do not expect AS to ever add SEA-XWA nonstop service.
I'm more interested to see what AS does with their 737 MAX-9's as they come on board. I know the original route for the MAX-9's were LAX-SEA. But maybe they will be added to the longer-haul routes like SEA-HI or LAX-Costa Rica. Maybe they'll start JFK-ANC (like Eastern).
RWRCAS wrote:wedgetail737 wrote:jplatts wrote:
While there are some destinations served by AS in Alaska and Washington State that carried fewer passengers than ISN/XWA did in 2019, I probably do not expect AS to ever add SEA-XWA nonstop service.
I'm more interested to see what AS does with their 737 MAX-9's as they come on board. I know the original route for the MAX-9's were LAX-SEA. But maybe they will be added to the longer-haul routes like SEA-HI or LAX-Costa Rica. Maybe they'll start JFK-ANC (like Eastern).
The 737 MAX-9s will begin its service on a few West Coast cities while the airline gets experience with, and crews trained on, the new aircraft. Further down the line they will do transcons and ETOPS.
wedgetail737 wrote:Does AS still have available gate space at SAN these days?
wedgetail737 wrote:I see that AS has tentatively scheduled MAX flights between SEA-LAX, PDX-LAX and SEA-SAN starting 3/1/21.
SANFan wrote:wedgetail737 wrote:Does AS still have available gate space at SAN these days?
Yes. To the best of my knowledge, AS currently has use of ~9 gates all located in Terminal T2E. In March 2020 (pre-COVID) AS scheduled ~53 daily departures from SAN; that's right up there among the highest flight counts for AS at our airport.That amounts to ~6 flts/gate/day.
I don't know what AS's average system-wide gate usage figure is but there should be plenty of space at SDIA for more flights. As I'm sure with most of AS's large west coast stations, there are peak times when almost every gate is needed -- like the early morning crush! -- and other times when 0 or 1 gate is occupied. It's all about trying to spread flights out during the day as much as possible and AS seems very good at that.
Coincidentally (?) the only other carrier that also uses gates in T2E is AA so I'm willing to bet that IF AS needed an extra gate here and there, and AA didn't need it, AS would be able to use it. Also, gates in T2E are located in a linear north-south concourse with AS on the east side and AA on the west side making it easy for gate sharing/connections if necessary.wedgetail737 wrote:I see that AS has tentatively scheduled MAX flights between SEA-LAX, PDX-LAX and SEA-SAN starting 3/1/21.
PDX-LAS is also in the mix for early MAX usage so 5 stations will be the first to train on the MAXs. Link: https://www.alaskaair.com/content/trave ... experience
bb
Brianpr3 wrote:how are the rsw flights doing?
midexjet wrote:I see that the Seattle - Milwaukee flight was downgauged to a Skywest E-175 starting today. Any idea how long that will last?
MIflyer12 wrote:jplatts wrote:(c) AS being able to tap into the FF base that AA already has in the CLE, DSM, BDL, JAX, MSN, ORF, and TUL markets.
AA isn't the #1 operating carrier in any of those markets. In CLE and MSN it isn't even among the top 5. Small fractions of midsize markets - blah.
AC4500 wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed at length before, but now that AS will be joining OneWorld, it seems prominent to bring this up again:
Will AS eventually add nonstop flights to Miami (MIA)?
I realize that FLL seems to be the current Miami-area airport that leisure passengers flock to, but it would certainly give Pacific North-westerners much easier access to the Caribbean and South America, although I suppose many of these connections can be achieved through DFW. That being said, it still seems natural for AS to supplement their own nonstop flight with AA's current SEA-MIA flight and maybe we could even finally see PDX-MIA happen as well.
I'm not suggesting that AS move their current FLL route network over to MIA; in fact, I think AS can easily coexist in both MIA and FLL at the same time.
It would also be interesting to see AS begin CLT nonstop flights as well...
Passedv1 wrote:AC4500 wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed at length before, but now that AS will be joining OneWorld, it seems prominent to bring this up again:
Will AS eventually add nonstop flights to Miami (MIA)?
I realize that FLL seems to be the current Miami-area airport that leisure passengers flock to, but it would certainly give Pacific North-westerners much easier access to the Caribbean and South America, although I suppose many of these connections can be achieved through DFW. That being said, it still seems natural for AS to supplement their own nonstop flight with AA's current SEA-MIA flight and maybe we could even finally see PDX-MIA happen as well.
I'm not suggesting that AS move their current FLL route network over to MIA; in fact, I think AS can easily coexist in both MIA and FLL at the same time.
It would also be interesting to see AS begin CLT nonstop flights as well...
Been there done that. MIA has too high fees with too much competition. AS moved the operation from MIA to FLL a number of years ago.
wedgetail737 wrote:SANFan wrote:wedgetail737 wrote:Does AS still have available gate space at SAN these days?
Yes. To the best of my knowledge, AS currently has use of ~9 gates all located in Terminal T2E. In March 2020 (pre-COVID) AS scheduled ~53 daily departures from SAN; that's right up there among the highest flight counts for AS at our airport.That amounts to ~6 flts/gate/day.
I don't know what AS's average system-wide gate usage figure is but there should be plenty of space at SDIA for more flights. As I'm sure with most of AS's large west coast stations, there are peak times when almost every gate is needed -- like the early morning crush! -- and other times when 0 or 1 gate is occupied. It's all about trying to spread flights out during the day as much as possible and AS seems very good at that.
Coincidentally (?) the only other carrier that also uses gates in T2E is AA so I'm willing to bet that IF AS needed an extra gate here and there, and AA didn't need it, AS would be able to use it. Also, gates in T2E are located in a linear north-south concourse with AS on the east side and AA on the west side making it easy for gate sharing/connections if necessary.wedgetail737 wrote:I see that AS has tentatively scheduled MAX flights between SEA-LAX, PDX-LAX and SEA-SAN starting 3/1/21.
PDX-LAS is also in the mix for early MAX usage so 5 stations will be the first to train on the MAXs. Link: https://www.alaskaair.com/content/trave ... experience
bb
Maybe AS will change some of their MAX-9's with some MAX-10's.
Nicknuzzii wrote:Is JFK-SAN in addition to EWR-SAN?
”The new nonstop service between San Diego and New York JFK is part of Alaska's growth to the Northeast from its West Coast hubs. This spring, the airline will also have nonstop service between San Diego and both Newark and Boston.”
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:Why does the world need seven airlines flying between LAX and Austin? Alaska now joins United, Delta, American, JetBlue, Southwest and Spirit on the route. I’m struggling to find any other route in the country that has seven airlines competing.
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:I’m struggling to find any other route in the country that has seven airlines competing.
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:Why does the world need seven airlines flying between LAX and Austin? Alaska now joins United, Delta, American, JetBlue, Southwest and Spirit on the route. I’m struggling to find any other route in the country that has seven airlines competing.
Ishrion wrote:Alaska Airlines has announced two new routes from SoCal:
- Daily Los Angeles to Austin on the E-175 starting March 18. This route increases to 3x daily from May 20. LAX-AUS will now have seven carriers on the route.
- Daily San Diego to New York JFK on the 737-900 starting April 4.
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2021-01- ... California
Ishrion wrote:Weatherwatcher1 wrote:I’m struggling to find any other route in the country that has seven airlines competing.
LAX-LAS has about 9-10 carriers.
I believe LGA-MCO may have seven airlines?
enilria wrote:Ishrion wrote:Alaska Airlines has announced two new routes from SoCal:
- Daily Los Angeles to Austin on the E-175 starting March 18. This route increases to 3x daily from May 20. LAX-AUS will now have seven carriers on the route.
- Daily San Diego to New York JFK on the 737-900 starting April 4.
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2021-01- ... California
It seemed like AS was backing out of JFK. Odd.
enilria wrote:It seemed like AS was backing out of JFK. Odd.
MLIAA wrote:At what point does AS grow too big for AA’s comfort at LAX? Aren’t they supposed to be partners? AA was one of the first carriers on this route, and while I’m sure AA isn’t losing sleep over the AS additions between LAX and secondary Oregon, Austin is in American’s back yard.
MIflyer12 wrote:Ishrion wrote:Weatherwatcher1 wrote:I’m struggling to find any other route in the country that has seven airlines competing.
LAX-LAS has about 9-10 carriers.
I believe LGA-MCO may have seven airlines?
Across the same five dates in August as above, LGA-MCO shows five carriers. LAX-LAS has seven (per ITA Matrix and southwest.com). If anybody has the O&D data it would be interesting to see how AUS-LAX compares. I don't think it's in the league of LAS-LAX or LGA-MCO.